IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 June 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:59 | <pat___> Hello. newbie here. How can I update Google Chrome as a local app in the image?
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| 02:00 | I can install other apps (chroot /opt/ltsp/i386....etc) Chrome is being a bugger. I've added the correct repository, but I get a list of dependencies that wont install.
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| 02:01 | <vagrantc> must not be the correct repository for your particular release if the dependencies don't resolve...
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| 02:07 | <pat___> Here is what I've done
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| 02:07 | wget -q -O - https://dl-ssl.google.com/linux/linux_signing_key.pub | sudo apt-key add - sudo sh -c 'echo "deb http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google.list' sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install google-chrome-stable
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| 02:07 | this is for 10.04
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| 02:10 | <vagrantc> 10.04?
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| 02:10 | <pat___> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
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| 02:11 | <vagrantc> not quite *this* long-term... support for that was dropped in April.
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| 02:12 | <pat___> I'm aware. We are in the process of planning to upgrade to 12.04 in the next few months
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| 02:12 | <jammcq> next april
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| 02:13 | <vagrantc> for the server components
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| 02:13 | the desktop components were dropped over a year ago.
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| 02:13 | <jammcq> ah
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| 02:13 | so we'll average it out and say "this april" :)
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| 02:13 | <vagrantc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
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| 02:14 | <jammcq> I think I heard that future LTS releases will be for 5 years on both server and desktop
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| 02:14 | <vagrantc> pat___: no idea what that google repository is supposed to support.
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| 02:14 | <jammcq> that's for the chrome browser
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| 02:14 | <vagrantc> jammcq: yeah, that's what it looks like.
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| 02:15 | jammcq: yes, i know that, but what *distro* does it support?
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| 02:15 | <pat___> I got that from here: http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppa/google_chrome
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| 02:17 | <vagrantc> that doesn't really clarify what distro and release it is for...
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| 02:17 | my hunch is you'll need a newer distro, if it can't resolve the dependencies
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| 02:18 | <pat___> I see
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| 02:21 | <pat___> thanks
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| 08:47 | <hafke> hi all, I'm having problems with a fresh ltsp install on ubuntu 12.04. shortly after the boot of my app server ltsp-cluster-accountmanager and ltsp-cluster-lbagent crash. can anybody help me, what info do you need?
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| 10:34 | <valeriobozzolan> Uh what a pity... I thought that FAT clients were only thin clients that boot with an image that includes the desktop pakages... I thought that fat clients uses server pakages but using their RAM and CPU.. and instead every pakage have to be manually included in ltsp-build-client.conf and for every change I have to rebuild the image...
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| 10:34 | :|
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| 10:35 | I'm right?
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| 10:35 | <der_baer> yep or you use nfs chroots instead of nbd
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| 10:35 | <SpComb> valeriobozzolan: ltsp-pnp
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| 10:36 | ltsp-build-image is very much optimized for thin clients
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| 10:45 | <valeriobozzolan> Ah, another question:
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| 10:45 | I successfully built a FAT image on a Xubuntu 14.04 setting as lts.conf: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657792/
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| 10:45 | And as ltsp-build-client.conf: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7657783/
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| 10:45 | So I've set "ubuntu-desktop". And why when I login on FAT client it throw: "Xsession: unable to launch "startxfce4" X session --- "startxfce4" not found; falling back to defat session.
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| 10:45 | Otherway, before, I've tried to specify "xubuntu-desktop", having the same exception.
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| 10:45 | When i press "OK", I see an ubuntu-desktop like environment but without any Unity toolbar: Only window manager.
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| 10:45 | Ideas?
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| 10:46 | Probably I have to delete the home of the client in use...
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| 10:46 | Uhm.
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| 10:51 | I'm a bit confused :)
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| 10:53 | <work_alkisg> valeriobozzolan: what do you want, ubuntu or xubuntu?
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| 10:53 | <valeriobozzolan> Xubuntu, but whatever works is good :)
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| 10:53 | <work_alkisg> Then why did you put FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOP="ubuntu-desktop"?
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| 10:53 | <valeriobozzolan> Because xubuntu-desktop in the documentation was not tested :)
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| 10:54 | And so I want to be sure that defaults work :)
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| 10:54 | <work_alkisg> I don't think ubuntu-desktop was tested in 14.04...
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| 10:54 | Did you read about ltsp-pnp?
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| 10:54 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 10:54 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 10:55 | <valeriobozzolan> ltsp: Yes in fact thank you very much i'm just reading :)
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| 13:29 | <Ashlyn> I have just created ubuntu 14.04 ltsp. Im wanting to push out to thin clients which works but theres a lot of lag. any ideas as to why this may be happening
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| 13:41 | <championofcyrodi> lag with the apps?
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| 13:41 | Ashlyn: lag with the apps?
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| 13:42 | <Ashlyn> Yeah
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| 13:42 | <championofcyrodi> Ashlyn: are you familiar with X11 forwarding?
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| 13:42 | <Ashlyn> no i'm not
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| 13:43 | <championofcyrodi> Ashlyn: okay, your applications are actually running on the LTSP server. (Not the thin client)
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| 13:43 | Ashlyn: So all of the graphics information is being sent through the network.
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| 13:43 | Ashlyn: is your network 1Gbps?
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| 13:43 | <Ashlyn> okay. yeah
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| 13:44 | <championofcyrodi> You have a couple of options...
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| 13:44 | <Ashlyn> Well I'm not sure about the network. Right now we are using a test network not connected to our actual one
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| 13:46 | Also the image is a 32 bit and I'm running ubuntu 14.04 64 bit. Could that be part of it by chance?
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| 13:46 | <championofcyrodi> no that should be fine...
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| 13:46 | You could run thick clients, in which all the applications run on the client itself, (instead of the server)
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| 13:46 | <Ashlyn> okay. How does that work?
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| 13:48 | <championofcyrodi> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 13:48 | it's similar to how you did ltsp-build-client, except you'll specify the client to be a 'fat client'
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| 13:49 | Are your clients good pc's?
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| 13:49 | Aka: will they run ubuntu 14.04 on their own well?
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| 13:49 | <Ashlyn> thanks. Any other options? we are trying this because we are a school and instead of replacing hard drives when a computer dies we want to be able to just take the hard drive out and push an image out.
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| 13:49 | Yeah we've tried on older and newer pc's
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| 13:49 | <championofcyrodi> yes, the thick clients will work without hard drives.
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| 13:50 | But they require more RAM/CPU then the thin clients.
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| 13:50 | <Ashlyn> okay. thank you!!
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| 13:50 | <championofcyrodi> you could also try running apps locally on the thin client...
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| 13:50 | there is a command ltsp-localapp, but you have to install the applications you want on the client image.
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| 13:51 | so for example, on older thin clients, I'll chroot /opt/ltsp/i386, then sudo apt-get install firefox.
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| 13:51 | <Ashlyn> okay. so I have Office on the image thatss being pushed out
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| 13:51 | <championofcyrodi> then on the client, I'll ltsp-localapp firefoox
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| 13:51 | so that firefox is running on the client instead of the ltsp server
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| 13:51 | <Ashlyn> ohhhhh okay. that makes sense
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| 13:52 | I'll try both of those options!
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| 13:52 | <championofcyrodi> if you have good hardware in the clients, the thick client will work best
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| 13:52 | I'm using the Intel NUC which has core i3 w/ 16GB RAM
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| 13:53 | they are about $400 each
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| 13:53 | but they have some slightly cheaper ones as well
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| 13:53 | you can easily get by with 8GB RAM
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| 13:54 | <Ashlyn> Okay I will definitely relay this information to my boss and see what he thinks
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| 13:54 | <championofcyrodi> also, sometimes when you disconnect a client without proper shutdown/log out, the 'nbd-server' will stop serving images to clients on boot. (timeout)
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| 13:54 | so you will have to log into the ltsp server and issue "sudo service nbd-server reboot"
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| 13:54 | then try the client PXE boot again
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| 13:55 | <Ashlyn> ohhh. That's what I've been having to do.
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| 13:55 | I often ge time-out and have to restart the nbd server
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| 13:55 | <championofcyrodi> yea, make sure to properly shutdown/log out with the NUC. I'm guessing the NBD server doesnt close out the connection properly if you just disconnect the client
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| 13:55 | s/nuc/client
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| 13:55 | <Ashlyn> Okay. Thank you for that!
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| 13:56 | <championofcyrodi> LTSP takes some getting used to and tweaking, but is a very good solution
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| 13:56 | <Ashlyn> Yeah we really think it'll be good for the school if we can just get that lagging gone.
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| 13:56 | <championofcyrodi> I would give yourself about 3-4 weeks to test out all the issues before trying to roll out to students
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| 13:57 | <Ashlyn> Yeah. I've been working on it for 3 weeks already and JUST got it working to this point. Now we have to work out the small issues
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| 13:58 | <championofcyrodi> also, the /home folders will be on the LTSP server, so you'll want to look at making sure you have enough disk space there. There is a way to get the clients to read the image from LTSP while mounting /home on a totally different server, but I havent gotten that far yet
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| 13:58 | gotta get back to work, good luck!
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| 13:58 | <cyberorg> Ashlyn, check out http://cyberorg.co.in/myscool/ its built on openSUSE with gnome-classic and mate desktop options
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| 13:59 | <Ashlyn> Oh okay. Do you know anything about rolling out multiple images? We want to eventually have an image for each dorm and computer labs. mainly for specific printers
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| 13:59 | <cyberorg> http://download.opensuse-education.org/~cyberorg/openSUSE-Edu-li-f-e-gnome-classic.x86_64-13.1.1.iso
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| 13:59 | Ashlyn, ^^ is gnome 3.12 test image
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| 14:00 | <Ashlyn> thanks! What will that do? I'm still new to all this.. lol
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| 14:00 | <cyberorg> Ashlyn, you can boot up that iso in a VM, set up ltsp and test the clients
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| 14:01 | <Ashlyn> Will that help with the lag?
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| 14:01 | <cyberorg> what is the hardware on the client?
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| 14:02 | <Ashlyn> I'm not sure because we've tried a few different ones.
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| 14:02 | <cyberorg> oh you haven't got the clients yet?
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| 14:03 | <Ashlyn> right now we are just testing on like i5's
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| 14:03 | <cyberorg> it shouldn't have any lag, i5s should be real quick
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| 14:04 | <Ashlyn> yeah that's what we thought.
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| 14:04 | but it does.
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| 14:04 | <championofcyrodi> if it's a thin client, it's probably your server/network combo.
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| 14:04 | <cyberorg> anyway, you can boot up that iso, follow this howto to get ltsp running https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:LTSP_quick_start_12.2_Edu
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| 14:04 | check if there is similar lag
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| 14:04 | <championofcyrodi> try building a thick client and all your lag will go away
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| 14:05 | <cyberorg> with clients with more than 1G fatclient is better option
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| 14:05 | <Ashlyn> okay. thanks guys
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| 15:29 | <muppis> This is summer in Finland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqC7WO7vEkE
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| 15:32 | <joe_sizlack> haha
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| 15:32 | that's an interesting instrument he's got there
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> Interesting outfit too :D
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| 15:40 | <muppis> South-west part of Finland was about only place where it didn't snow today. :D
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| 15:42 | <elias_a> o/
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| 15:42 | I live here :D
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| 15:43 | <muppis> elias_a, so do I.
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| 15:43 | <elias_a> The guy on the video is quite known in Finland.
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| 15:44 | He has made hundreds of videos with the same attitude. :)
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| 15:51 | <joe_sizlack> anyone have any experience getting the proprietary nvidia drivers/xorg to be dynamically used from the lts.conf?
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| 15:51 | I'm assuming I can get it done with X_OPTION_
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> joe_sizlack: I think vmlintu has initramfs+init-ltsp.d code for that
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| 15:57 | It can't be done with plain X_OPTION as it diverts the *gl.so libraries
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| 15:58 | <joe_sizlack> ah
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| 15:58 | <mmetzger> any suggestions for enabling screen lock on Ubuntu 14.04 Fat clients?
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| 15:59 | <joe_sizlack> you use xscreensaver
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> Or remoteapps
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| 15:59 | <joe_sizlack> add the .xscreensavor file to their home with read only perms so they can't disable it
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| 16:01 | <mmetzger> Does xscreensaver know to authenticate against the server?
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| 16:01 | <joe_sizlack> yea
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| 16:02 | they have to log back in with whatever method they used to authenticate initially
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| 16:02 | ldap in my case
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| 16:02 | <mmetzger> Ok, will try again - screwed something up yesterday then
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| 16:02 | <joe_sizlack> you have to adjust pam a bit though actually
| |
| 16:02 | now that I think about it
| |
| 16:02 | one sec, let me take a look at what I changed
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| 16:02 | <||cw> xscreensaver just uses whatever the local auth is
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| 16:05 | <joe_sizlack> $CHROOT/etc/pam.d/xscreensaver points to common-auth and common-account
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| 16:06 | I think I only had to change stuff because my ldap setup is using stupidly setup uid's
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| 16:06 | so I think you're fine with xscreensaver out of the box
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| 16:06 | <mmetzger> Ok - thanks all - will try again.
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| 16:06 | <joe_sizlack> np
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| 16:07 | alkisg, that code still isn't commited I assume?
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> joe_sizlack: what code?
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| 16:09 | <joe_sizlack> for the nvidia prop. drivers
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| 16:10 | I think I misunderstood though. vmlintu is another project?
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> vmlintu is a Finnish user that maintains a large customized LTSP installation
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| 16:11 | <joe_sizlack> ah
| |
| 16:11 | <alkisg> He has some code to make LTSP better in some cases, which hasn't been submitted upstream
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| 16:12 | The problem with all those binary drivers is that they can't be installed in parallel like all the other drivers, but they're using library diversions, initramfs blacklisting etc....
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| 16:13 | So an LTSP script that would allow nvidia-* to be dynamically loaded, would have to do what nvidia.postinst does now
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| 16:17 | <joe_sizlack> does vmlintu's code logic out the graphics chipset then somehow?
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| 16:17 | during initramfs
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> I'm guessing yes, I haven't read or used the code
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| 16:18 | <joe_sizlack> mmm
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| 16:18 | I'll see what he's got posted
| |
| 16:18 | My nvidia boxes run so much better with acceleration
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> nouveau does have acceleration
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| 16:19 | But mostly 2D. Are you using 3D?
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| 16:20 | <joe_sizlack> nouveau still has a ways to go I think
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> Sure, but for some cards it does produce about the same results wrt speed
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| 16:20 | <joe_sizlack> I haven't tried it in the last 6 months though
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> Depends on the card
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| 16:20 | * alkisg would surely love a clean way to dynamically load the binary drivers though | |
| 16:21 | <joe_sizlack> I'm not running 3d stuff, nah
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| 16:21 | flash is a killer though
| |
| 16:22 | just seems to run better on the binary drivers
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> I don't think flash uses acceleration without going through hoops
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| 16:22 | Thin clients or fat?
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| 16:22 | <joe_sizlack> fat
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> Are the cards supported by nvidia-current?
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| 16:23 | Or are they older?
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| 16:24 | <joe_sizlack> I believe they're still covered under the new nvidia binary
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| 16:24 | they're relatively new
| |
| 16:25 | I'm running the nvidia-kernel-common from the debian wheezy repos
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| 16:25 | dkms 304.88
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> It's worth a try, sure...
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| 16:25 | bbl
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| 17:00 | <vmlintu> joe_sizlack: nvidia requires some packaging changes if you want to use it dynamically. The packaging code we use is here: https://github.com/opinsys/opinsys-debs/tree/master/packages/default/nvidia-graphics-drivers-304/debian
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| 17:03 | The packaging disables the code so that installation does not create the symlinks that normally override other libraries. One needs to then call update-alternatives during boottime to do that: https://github.com/opinsys/puavo-ltsp/blob/master/client/init-puavo.d/60-setup-xserver
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| 17:34 | <john_s_> Hello all, I am trying to figure out if there's a way to mangle the username entered through ldm to strip off the realm. Suppose a user logs in as user@realm, I'd like ldm to pass only the "user" portion of that name to ssh
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> not clear what you mean here...
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| 17:38 | john_s_: ldm connects to an ssh server, so if you stripped off the server, it would fail to connect...
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| 17:41 | <john_s_> vagrantc: Thanks, I wish I could describe this a little better. Users who login currently simply as "user" will get on. Users who logon as user@realm will not, so it's not a matter of needing the realm to contact the ssh server
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| 17:41 | it more a matter of needing to remove the realm so that ssh only process the "user" portion of the id
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| 17:50 | <joe_sizlack> thanks vmlintu
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| 17:50 | much appreciated
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| 17:53 | <john_s_> sshd recieves the username before pam starts processing stuff, so I need to intercept the name for mangling before it reaches ssh
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| 17:53 | I was hoping there was a way to do this in LDM
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| 17:53 | <||cw> doens't ssh just pass it to pam? can pam not handle it from there?
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| 17:55 | <john_s_> ||cw: ssh does pass it to pam, as user@realm since that user doesn't exist in /etc/passwd nor in winbind the user is rejected.
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| 17:55 | <vagrantc> john_s_: can't the user just not enter the realm?
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| 17:56 | john_s_: i.e. where's @realm coming from?
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| 17:57 | john_s_: you'd actually have to recompile LDM for that to work
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| 17:57 | john_s_: to mangle the name entered
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| 17:57 | <john_s_> vagrantc: yes, in fact I am sort of doing this "backward" we have a mixed environment of chromebooks, win7 clients, and ltsp TC's the goal is that all uses log on with user@realm, this is supported by chromebooks (enforced in fact), and win7
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| 17:57 | <mmetzger> What about adding a pam filter option?
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| 17:58 | <||cw> or make winbind accept it?
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| 17:59 | <john_s_> mmetzger: it seems like I need to get to the name before ssh gets to the name
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| 18:00 | <||cw> john_s_: if they want users to login with user@realm that generally means they will be adding more realms. you'll need make pam and/or winbind honor it.
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| 18:00 | <john_s_> ||cw: winbind doesn't accept names in that format as far as I can tell, it's looking for the name in the domain\user format. According to folks on the samba list this isn't possible
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| 18:01 | e.g. winbind doesn't user the UPN (user principal name) user@realm to authenticate
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| 18:03 | There is an alternative to winbind called SSSD, which I haven't used that may allow the user@realm convention to be followed
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| 18:03 | <vagrantc> certainly worth looking into
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| 18:04 | <john_s_> vagrantc: yes, I think you're right. Is your take on it that some major hacking on ldm would be necessary to achieve the name mangling?
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| 18:08 | <vagrantc> john_s_: i think it would require editing the C code, rather than just hooking into the shell scripts
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| 18:08 | john_s_: so it would require rebuilding ldm ... though i'm not 100% positive
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| 18:08 | * vagrantc looks deeper | |
| 18:09 | <joe_sizlack> https://github.com/devstructure/blueprint
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| 18:10 | this just blew my mind
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| 18:11 | it's gonna make documenting my largely undocumented ltsp setup much nicer
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> joe_sizlack: that does look pretty cool
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| 18:16 | <vagrantc> john_s_: ok, i think you could write a fork of the ssh plugin that mangles the name, and install that without recompiling ldm.
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| 18:19 | john_s_: still requires C coding... and I'm not sure anyone's acutally written an out-of-tree plugin for ldm before ... it'd e interesting to see if it worked
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| 18:24 | <john_s_> vagrantc: neat, where would the documentation for ldm plugins exist, I am not much of a coder, but perhaps I can cajole someone into it
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| 18:24 | <vmlintu> joe_sizlack: the nvidia packaging is a bit tricky, but let me know if you need help
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| 18:24 | joe_sizlack: there are also patched packages here: http://archive.opinsys.fi/git-master/pool/quantal/restricted/n/nvidia-graphics-drivers-304/
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| 18:25 | <elias_a> vmlintu: Good evening!
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| 18:26 | <vmlintu> elias_a: good evening! And happy autumn ;)
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> john_s_: you would be writing it!
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| 18:27 | <joe_sizlack> thanks vmlintu. I appreciate the assist
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| 18:30 | <john_s_> vagrantc: heh, yes, I was wondering where the debian source for the ssh plugin to ldm live? I guess just pull the ltsp-server sources and grep for ssh and plugin?
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> john_s_: it's in ldm
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| 18:36 | john_s_: apt-get source ldm # upstream is https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk
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| 18:39 | john_s_: src/ssh/plugins/
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| 18:41 | <john_s_> vagrantc: thanks!
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| 18:41 | <vmlintu> elias_a: do you have experiences about BYOD policies in schools?
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| 18:42 | or BYOT
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| 18:48 | <elias_a> vmlintu: Nope. I know they are doing stuff here and there but AFAIK it is always a mess.
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| 18:49 | vmlintu: On the other hand, everything is a mess in my standards :)
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| 18:53 | <vmlintu> elias_a: Sounds familiar.. but what could ever go wrong.. ;)
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| 18:55 | Trying to figure out governmental and local policies just doesn't mix too well with kernel coding, it seems to me..
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| 19:11 | <elias_a> vmlintu: nuff said... :P
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