IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 October 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:01 | <gnunux> hi
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| 02:03 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 03:06 | <jimjimovich> man, just too many problems with Ubuntu 10.10 ltsp, gonna stick with 10.04
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| 03:07 | <muppis> Is 10.10 already out?
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| 03:07 | Ah, 6 day left.
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| 03:07 | <jimjimovich> the release candidate is, final in less than a week
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| 03:07 | <muppis> jimjimovich, shouldn't use rc in production.
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| 03:08 | <jimjimovich> yeah, i know, it's not exactly production yet
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| 03:08 | <muppis> Ok.
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| 03:08 | <jimjimovich> i guess it's much safer to stay on 10.04 since this is going be a very important part of our infrastructure
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| 03:08 | <muppis> I probably left server to 10.04 and upgrade my workstation to 10.10.
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| 03:09 | <jimjimovich> that gives me 2-3 years of hopeful stability :)
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| 03:09 | <muppis> :)
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| 03:09 | <jimjimovich> i actually don't see any compelling reason to upgrade to 10.10
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| 03:17 | <muppis> They say it should be always fresh installed when upgrading Ubuntu. Haven't done that since 8.10 and still running fine.
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| 03:19 | <jimjimovich> I actually am starting a new ltsp project and thought i'd give 10.10 a try. worked with it for a few days and having lots of problems. we have a working 10.04 ltsp server working in production with no problems.
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| 03:20 | <biomorph_> jimjimovich: Remember 10.04 is LTS, so could be worth staying with for stability.
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| 03:21 | <jimjimovich> biomorph_: yup, that's the new plan ;)
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| 03:21 | btw, we've had great luck with all the LTS releases. had 8.04 running for 2 years, and before that 6.06 for 2 years
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| 03:22 | don't know what i was thinking with 10.10
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| 03:23 | <johnny> uhmm.. it's also beta..
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| 03:23 | ah.. whoa.. it's coming soon
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| 03:23 | <jimjimovich> like i said ... not sure what i was thinking
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| 03:23 | <johnny> fedora doesn't come out til november :(
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| 03:24 | <jimjimovich> hey guys, i got a situation where i'd like my terminals to be thin clients (not fat) yet i'm sure users will want to be able to watch video, from your expeience, what would you suggest as a setup?
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| 03:24 | <johnny> local apps..
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| 03:24 | just run the video app locally
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| 03:25 | <jimjimovich> yeah, tried that with vlc, but it can't find any of the files when i try to open them
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| 03:25 | and (with 10.10) was unsuccessful in getting flash working in local firefox
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| 03:25 | <alkisg> Why not fat?
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| 03:26 | <jimjimovich> well, a lot of the machines are old, and the network is not gigabit
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| 03:26 | <alkisg> Fat clients require less network bandwidth than thin
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| 03:26 | <jimjimovich> hmmm
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| 03:26 | <alkisg> If the machines are old, they won't work with localapps too.
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| 03:27 | <jimjimovich> do the fat clients take long to boot (i'd try right now, but reinstalling the server to 10.04)
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| 03:27 | <alkisg> Mine take 13 seconds
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| 03:27 | (as opposed to 50 for a local disk boot)
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| 03:27 | <jimjimovich> wow, how is that possible?
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| 03:28 | seems like the network would be slower than a local hard drive
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| 03:28 | <alkisg> There's very small latency because usually the server has everything already cached
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| 03:29 | Anyway, you can't have old machines, no gigabit network, and firefox + flash + video in any combination :)
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| 03:29 | So you'd need to upgrade at least something, eg. the network
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| 03:30 | (how old? cpu/ram?)
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| 03:31 | <jimjimovich> well, there are a range of systems ranging from new atom boards to 5 years
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| 03:31 | everything is running ubuntu locally now, or win2k
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| 03:31 | by the way, we just finally had to upgrade our other clients (many up to 15 years old) after upgrading to 10.04 ... they actually ran okay under 8.04 - lol
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| 03:32 | so, i'm guessing if they run ubuntu okay installed on an HD, it should be okay as a fat client, right?
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| 03:33 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 03:33 | How many clients for a 100mbps network?
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| 03:33 | <jimjimovich> our absolute max will be like 20 (eventually)
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| 03:33 | and part of the network can be upgraded to gigabit
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| 03:33 | other parts probably can't because of old wiring in the walls
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| 03:34 | <alkisg> The server <=> switch part is the most important, it needs to be gigabit
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| 03:34 | It makes the network 10 times faster
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| 03:34 | (which in LTSP is the most important part)
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| 03:34 | <jimjimovich> yeah, getting a gigabit switch is no problem, but i'd imagine a lot of the clients will never have gigabit
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| 03:34 | <muppis> I have set firefox to be launched as localapp. How I start it temporarily as remoteapp?
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| 03:35 | <jimjimovich> btw, do you know of a good gigabit ethernet card with pxe?
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| 03:35 | <muppis> Intel
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| 03:35 | <jimjimovich> muppis: you should be able to launch it with Alt+F2 and starting just "firefox"
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| 03:36 | <muppis> jimjimovich, problem actually is that I'm logged to fat via ssh and I want launch FF to be runned in there, not in thin.
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| 03:38 | <jimjimovich> ah
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| 03:38 | <alkisg> muppis: you don't have access to the X session with ssh, you'd need to set DISPLAY and XAUTHORITY appropriately for that to work
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| 03:39 | muppis: run those:
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| 03:39 | p=$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)
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| 03:39 | eval $(tr '\\0' '\\n' < /proc/$p/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=')
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| 03:39 | export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
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| 03:39 | You'll get access to the X session then.
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| 03:40 | <muppis> alkisg, I'll try.
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| 03:40 | <jimjimovich> muppis: was your "Intel" comment about the ethernet cards?
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| 03:40 | for some reason, nobody sells them in Russia :(
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| 03:41 | <alkisg> Broadcom also work for me
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| 03:41 | Realteks don't have pxe, but they're very very cheap, so I use them for the clients along with gpxe in the windows boot manager
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| 03:41 | <muppis> jimjimovich, yes. Broadcom is good choice also, if we can count on HP..
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| 03:42 | And Realteks get crappy on high load.
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| 03:42 | <alkisg> (not realteaks for the server though, they don't support turning off flow-control: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl)
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| 03:42 | <jimjimovich> yeah, that's another question i had, about booting without pxe on the card. what's this gpxe?
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| 03:42 | <alkisg> !gpxe
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| 03:42 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "gpxe" :: the successor to etherboot (http://etherboot.org). To download bootable floppy, cd, usb, kernel etc images, visit http://rom-o-matic.net/
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| 03:42 | <jimjimovich> alkisg: how are you such a genius about all this stuff? :)
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| 03:42 | <alkisg> if the clients have win2000 I also have an .exe that puts it on the windows boot manager
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| 03:43 | jimjimovich: I support dozens of labs, so I had to know all the problems :)
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| 03:43 | <jimjimovich> alkisg: super cool
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| 03:45 | alkisg: so you using gpxe on floppies and such?
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| 03:46 | <muppis> alkisg, do I run those on server, thin or fat ?
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| 03:46 | <alkisg> muppis: within the fat ssh session (if I understood what you want to do)
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| 03:47 | jimjimovich: no, I put it on the windows boot manager
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| 03:47 | <muppis> No effect.
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| 03:47 | <alkisg> muppis: the effect is that now you can run "firefox" from within ssh
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| 03:47 | <muppis> Titlebar still shows @ltsp243
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| 03:47 | <alkisg> Right. Hmmm I guess you didn't want to do that, then?
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| 03:48 | Can you rephrase what you currently have, and what you want to do/
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| 03:48 | ?
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| 03:48 | <muppis> Ah, now worked. Somehow got FF still running in thin, so it didn't launch new.
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| 03:50 | <jimjimovich> who is writing ltsp these days?
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| 04:37 | <muppis> I got ldap in thins and fats. If I install ldm-server to fat, can I login from thin to that?
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| 05:29 | <jimjimovich> do local devices (printers, scanners, etc) work the same on a fat client as they would if ubuntu was installed locally on the HD?
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| 05:31 | <muppis> Do you mean if you plug usb memory to thin, do you see it as in locally installed?
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| 06:00 | <jimjimovich> i mean for a fat client, if i plug in a printer, will it work locally on that fat client?
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| 06:00 | anyone know how to configure the ltsp-build-client.conf to use a specific sources.list?
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| 06:02 | <muppis> It should. Fat, as I know, means locally installed system.
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| 06:35 | <jimjimovich> how does setting up NFS_HOME differ from the standard setup?
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| 07:31 | <jimjimovich> just did a fresh 10.04 install and fresh fat client chroot and firefox hangs really bad
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| 07:31 | on the fat client
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| 07:34 | <jimjimovich> actually, i can't launch anything, processor (i/o wait) spikes to 100% and it won't do much of anything
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| 07:37 | <methril_work> morning all
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| 07:37 | are the RC_SCRIPTS executed with ldm SCRENN?
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| 07:43 | <jimjimovich> by the way, looks like the flash problems i was having yesterday (running flash in firefox as a local app) was something specific to ubuntu 10.10
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| 07:57 | <jimjimovich> any tips on what media player works best as a local app?
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| 07:59 | <alkisg> vlc works
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| 08:02 | <jimjimovich> alkisg: i have a brand new atom (single core) desktop with 1gb of ram, does that seem like enough for a fat client? it hangs on me when launching just about any app
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| 08:03 | <alkisg> It's more than enough
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| 08:03 | <jimjimovich> i thought it should be
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| 08:04 | do i need to have NFS_HOME set for it to work right?
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> No, NFS_HOME is only needed for some apps that use locks, like google chrome or evolution
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| 08:10 | <jimjimovich> what exactly does it do?
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> It tries to mount /home with nfs. You need to manually export /home on the server for this to work.
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| 08:11 | <jimjimovich> something about mounting home with nfs doesn't sound good to me. is it less secure?
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 08:13 | <jimjimovich> that's kinda what i thought
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| 08:15 | <jimjimovich> seems strange to me that firefox runs perfectly as a local app on this machine when it's a thin client, but locks the whole thing up in fat client mode
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| 08:16 | <alkisg> ?
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| 08:16 | You made a fat chroot and it works fine and firefox locks?
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| 08:16 | <jimjimovich> made a fat chroot following the instructions you sent me yesterday from the wiki
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| 08:17 | it boots fine (although somewhat slow) then when i launch firefox, cpu usage (on the client) goes to 100% and that's pretty much the end of things
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| 08:17 | but if i do the fatclient=false thing and boot it from the same chroot as a thin client, firefox will work fine as a local app
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| 08:17 | <alkisg> What part uses 100% CPU?
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| 08:18 | <jimjimovich> i can't really tell because everything locks up, but it looks like the IOWait color in my system monitor tray
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> Erm, I've seen statd problems with NFS on Lucid, but you're *not* using NFS, right?
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| 08:19 | <jimjimovich> no
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> Do other apps work?
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| 08:20 | <jimjimovich> well, sometimes. last time i tried, even opening gnome-terminal did the same thing
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| 08:20 | i'll try again
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| 08:21 | by the way, this thing runs super as a thin client. i'm mostly interested in fat clients as a way to more easily deal with local hardware and video (for some of my users)
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> It looks like you've hit some problem then, normally firefox, gnome-terminal etc all run OK out of the box - only google chrome, google earth and evolution have problems
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| 08:22 | <jimjimovich> seems like a file system problem to me, since it's the IOWait that i'm seeing
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> Try running "mount" from a local terminal and check that /home/username is indeed mounted with sshfs
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| 08:22 | <jimjimovich> okay
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> (sshfs is the default for localapps too)
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| 08:26 | <jimjimovich> yeah, it's mounted sshfs
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> Try copying some stuff from it, to check that everything is OK
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| 08:29 | <jimjimovich> yeah, works fine
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| 08:29 | <alkisg> ok, have a terminal running "top" and also make it "stay on top" and then launch firefox or something similar...
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| 08:33 | <jimjimovich> haha, this time it worked
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> It might be upstart related...
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| 08:34 | <jimjimovich> like i'm trying to launch an app before something else is launched and ready?
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| 08:36 | <jimjimovich> by the way, youtube performance is horrible as a fat client compared to thin + localapp
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| 08:36 | but i guess that makes sense
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| 08:42 | <alkisg> Horrible? Then it's a slow client
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| 08:43 | Performance as a fat should be identical to standalone installations
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| 08:43 | So if the client isn't good enough for a standalone ubuntu installation, of course it won't work well with local apps or fat clients too...
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| 08:43 | <jimjimovich> that makes sense
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| 08:44 | <alkisg> thin+localapp should also be identical to fat
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| 08:44 | (because localapps run on the client)
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| 08:44 | Now thin on a slow client may go faster than localapps on a slow client (or fat client), sure
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| 08:45 | But localapps == fat clients == standalone installations
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| 08:45 | If you don't see that equation above ^^ then there's something wrong with your setup
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| 08:45 | <jimjimovich> yeah, except with a thin client that poor little Atom isn't dealing with running gnome and the entire desktop
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| 08:45 | <alkisg> Gnome doesn't take any CPU while watching youtube
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| 08:45 | Run `top` and check it
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| 08:46 | <jimjimovich> yeah, i know, but you've got a lot more loaded in ram for a fat client than a thin, so there's some overhead
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> If RAM doesn't suffice, sure, but 1 Gb should be more than enough, so there's NO overhead
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| 08:47 | <jimjimovich> okay
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> It's like saying "if a 1Tb disk is filled with 500 Gb data it'll go slower than one with 100 Gb data"
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| 08:48 | <jimjimovich> lol
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| 14:06 | <lawbar> Any body talking in here?
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| 14:07 | Maybe mailing list is better?
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| 14:07 | <abeehc-_> people talk
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| 14:08 | <lawbar> like to discuss jetpipe and its implementation in ltsp
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| 14:08 | <johnny> !ask
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| 14:08 | <ltspbot> johnny: "ask" :: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least 15 minutes after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 14:08 | <johnny> ah, for that the mailing list might be better
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| 15:20 | <mgariepy> any of you guys had tried ltsp-remote apps yet ?
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> Some people here did, you need to enable remote apps on lts.conf for it to work
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| 15:24 | <mgariepy> yeah i did but doesn't seem to work.
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| 15:25 | do you know it there is a daemon that is supposed to run on the server to handle the call ?
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| 15:25 | <johnny> no more than lmdinfod
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| 15:25 | if that
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> mgariepy: so you did put REMOTE_APPS=True in lts.conf?
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| 15:26 | <mgariepy> like localappsd but for the apperv or something
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| 15:26 | yeah.
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| 15:26 | on maverick btw.
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| 15:27 | <vagrantc> remote apps doesn't need a daemon running, thankfully.
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| 15:28 | <mgariepy> how does it handle the call then ?
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| 15:30 | ltsp-localappsd looks for LTSP_COMMAND and execute it from xprop
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| 15:30 | out of curiosity, any of you used it recently?
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| 15:32 | <vagrantc> ah, the daemon is running ont he client
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| 15:32 | there is a daemon.
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| 15:33 | <mgariepy> yeah but why does ltsp-remoteappsd is running on the thin client, shouldn't it run on the server :S
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> so that it doesn't require special configuration server-side.
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| 15:34 | it uses the same ssh socket that the initial connection to the server uses
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| 15:35 | <mgariepy> ho, i see now.
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| 15:36 | <vagrantc> which keeps it much simpler than the localapps stuff
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| 15:37 | <mgariepy> yeah
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| 15:38 | does it work on your setup ?
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> haven't tested it lately...
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| 15:38 | <mgariepy> ok
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| 15:47 | i'll take a look at this tomorrow i guess :) thanks guys.
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> mgariepy: i can give a basic test in just a moment...
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| 15:50 | <mgariepy> if it doesn't work can you open a bug in lp and asign it to me?
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> i'm testing on debian...
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| 15:51 | doh.
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| 15:52 | don't install the ldm hooks on debian at least...
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| 15:52 | <mgariepy> ok then can you send me your test result by mail ?
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| 15:52 | <vagrantc> didn't work at all...
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| 15:52 | <mgariepy> ok, i'll take a deeper look tomorrow then
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> Some people reported that it worked for them recently, on Lucid I think
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| 15:53 | <mgariepy> i'll keep you posted ;)
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| 15:53 | <vagrantc> hrm...
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| 15:53 | hrm... it is installed...
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| 15:54 | ah, used wrong variable name...
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| 15:55 | <mgariepy> maybe it's my setup too, i'll test with edubuntu live tomorrow. to make sure i have something clean.
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| 15:57 | i'll be back tomorrow.
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> ok, using the right variable name, REMOTE_APPS=true/false
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| 15:58 | using ltsp 5.2.4
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| 15:59 | kind of an odd environment ... debian lenny squeeze on server, debian lenny + ltsp backports in the ltsp chroot.
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| 16:16 | <komunista> !compiz
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| 16:16 | <ltspbot> komunista: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 16:54 | <cfkane> I'm still having problems booting a eee box 202 client from an ubuntu server. I think it's a video issue. the client gets the kernel and then the initrd image and loads it. I see the 6 dots Lucid screen but just before it would go to the login display it dies, leaving (or showing underneath) the 'glib unknown user id (o)' error I see posted. I can boot a Compaq SSF P3-800 just fine. Any pointers?
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| 16:55 | <alkisg> Try with XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf to verify that's a video issu
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| 16:55 | e
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| 16:55 | <cfkane> Right now...
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| 16:55 | <alkisg> What video card does it have?
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| 16:57 | <cfkane> alkisg: Same thing. It's supposed to be ati. I've tried that too. Same thing.
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| 16:58 | <alkisg> sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default, and replace "quiet splash" with "nomodeset" there...
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| 17:02 | <cfkane> alksig: I did that (wow! real boot info!) and it dies with
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| 17:03 | mounting root fs
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| 17:03 | running /scripts/nfs-top
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| 17:03 | kernel panic attempti to kill init
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> Hmmm maybe it lacks a network driver
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| 17:04 | Can you boot it with an ubuntu stick?
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| 17:04 | <cfkane> haven't tried that. If it was network then the dhcp and kernel image download would fail.
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> No
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| 17:05 | The dhcp and kernel image are managed by the pxe stack, not the nic module
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| 17:05 | Boot with an ubuntu stick, run lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 Ethernet and see which driver it uses, if any
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| 17:06 | <cfkane> I have no idea why that could be 'no' but I'll start looking at network drivers.
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> Then put that into the initramfs by following https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
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| 17:06 | <cfkane> Thanks for the link.
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> cfkane: the first part of the boot, up until "nfs-top" etc is managed by the nic rom
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| 17:07 | It contains a minimal driver called "pxe stack" that downloads the kernel over the network
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| 17:07 | After that, the linux nic module gets loaded, and if it doesn't, it'd fail with about the same symptoms
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| 17:08 | <cfkane> I follow now. I'm at the link and find what kernel that device uses. Thanks for the help.
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> (otherwise you'd see a message about "eth0 configured at 192.168.0.123:x:x:x:x - do you see that?)
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| 17:09 | Or, server-side, you'd see 2 dhcp requests, one for the pxe boot and one from the linux module aftewards
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| 17:09 | Right now I'm guessing you only see the first one...
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| 17:09 | <cfkane> let me look at the server
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| 17:12 | on the server I see dhcp discover, offer, request and ack with the proper MAC addy and a IP addy assigned from within the range I spec'd in dhcpd.conf
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> One or two such requests?
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| 17:13 | You should be seeing 2 of them, with 5-10 secs interval...
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| 17:15 | <cfkane> Nope, there's only one set, spanning a couple seconds. Looks like network then.
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 17:16 | <cfkane> Thanks a lot! I'm out of here, hopefully for quite a while...
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| 20:52 | <Conker> hey all, ive got LTSP K12 (Fedora) installed on a machine, and well ive found my way to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/ and gunzipped "initrd.ltsp" but it seams i cannot find the part where it mount the nfs drive, i see the part where it "Loading nfs module" but no connect, can anyone help me better understand the boot process?
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| 20:54 | oh and cpio'd it already obviosly
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| 21:00 | ... "Binary file bin/nash matches" ... am i missing something? or is nash hard coded to mount a specific nfs dir?
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| 21:03 | or is mkdevroot"
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| 21:10 | * Conker scratches head | |
| 21:12 | <Conker> "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default" doesnt contain any nfs parameters at all
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