IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 December 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:53 | <vicd> Hello! Does anyone know how to get in saned.conf not only the address of the server, and all the network for example?
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| 06:01 | or disable overwriting saned.conf?
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| 07:07 | <vicd> no one knows?
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| 08:43 | <Hyperbyte> vicd, it's a bit hack'ish, but you can find all LTSP scripts in the chroot, in /usr/share/ltsp/
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| 08:44 | In this case, /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/50-saned
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| 08:46 | Although that doesn't seem to do much... mmm
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| 08:47 | There is some other saned stuff in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X50-generate-env
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| 08:47 | It seems to me that ltsp leaves your saned config alone if you put SCANNER=False in lts.conf (which seems to be the default)00
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| 09:01 | <vicd> Thanks Hyperbyte. I've already changed X50-generate-env
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| 09:47 | <sha_> hi
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| 10:24 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, hi!
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| 10:24 | !ask
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| 10:24 | <ltsp> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 10:24 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 11:30 | <sha_> thanks... i'm trying to build a complete fatclient image and still have some problems. 1) gvfs is not working, i guess it's because of sshfs-mounted /home. 2) is it possible to use smb/cifs instead of sshfs or nfs for /home? 3) what would be the best approach to mount a public samba share (not /home) with users credentials?
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| 11:32 | on the ltsp server, /home is already mounted as a samba-share from a samba server ... i'd prefer to mount /home directly from the samba server on the fatclient, instead of using nfs or sshfs with the mounted /home samba-share on the server
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| 11:36 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, there's a fundamental problem with your setup.
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| 11:36 | <Hyperbyte> I believe so, anyways (I'm not expert)
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| 11:37 | But AFAIK, gvfs relies on some special filesystem features for it to work properly. Those aren't available in every filesystem.
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| 11:37 | gvfs works fine over sshfs, but from what you're saying, I doubt it works with SMB
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| 11:38 | gvfs also works fine over nfs I believe.
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| 11:39 | <sha_> okay, then maybe i'm just missing a package for gvfs
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| 11:39 | <JustSomeGuy> hi im using ltsp on ubuntu and wanted to intigrate pam_mkhomedir in to ldm (i want to copy some files when a new home directory is created) i added mkhomedir to common-session in pam.d but it wont get executed by ldm. when i login via su it works fine.
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| 11:39 | <Hyperbyte> No experience with that.
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| 11:39 | sha_, I assume you have a Microsoft Active Directory set up in your network?
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| 11:40 | <sha_> i'm using sshfs right now with a user which hasn't a samba share on the server... and gvfs isn't working
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| 11:40 | Hyperbyte: no, it's a samba fileserver with shared /home
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| 11:43 | <Hyperbyte> JustSomeGuy, LDM uses ssh to log in to the server. If you get it working when you manually ssh user@servername, then it'll work with LTSP.
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| 11:43 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: or maybe SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS needs to be set to "false"?
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| 11:44 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, I'm confused now actually about my earlier statement of gvfs working
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| 11:45 | Right, gvfs works over sshfs... just confirmed that.
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| 11:45 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: btw. thin-clients are working very well with /home mounted as a samba-share...even with gvfs
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| 11:46 | Hyperbyte: are you using SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false?
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| 11:46 | <Hyperbyte> Really? That's surprising.
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| 11:46 | sha_, no, I'm using as much stock config as possible.
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| 11:46 | <sha_> why is it surprising?
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| 11:46 | <JustSomeGuy> Hyperbyte, it works with ssh
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| 11:47 | <Hyperbyte> I had lots of troubles with special file permissions not translating correctly over sshfs <-> nfs... surprises me that it works with cifs
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| 11:47 | Although to be fair, this sshfs <-> nfs problem I had was a while ago... I never fully debugged it
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| 11:48 | sha_, I'm curious though. Why are you using samba?
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| 11:48 | I'm assuming it's a Windows machine?
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| 11:48 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: perhaps its a misunderstanding. on the ltsp server /home is mounted as a samba share. thinclients have no problems with that (not much surprising for me).
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| 11:49 | no, it's a debian with /home shared via samba -> mounted on ltsp-server /home.
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| 11:50 | working so far with thinclients - now, i want to use fatclients and don't have a good feeling with sshfs'ing the mounted samba-share to the fatclient
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| 11:52 | <Hyperbyte> Right, it's better to eliminate the overhead
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| 11:53 | But, out of curiousity, why have you chosen to use Samba for sharing files between two Linux servers?
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| 11:55 | <sha_> yeah, that might sound really weird. but it was needed, there's still a win2k3-terminalserver, and so the users' /home can be easily mounted
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| 11:57 | <Hyperbyte> You can easily mix a network with Linux and Windows clients though, and give people the same home directory, even match their Desktop icons, without using Samba for Linux <-> Linux though
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| 11:57 | Samba and NFS can both operate on the same directories
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| 11:57 | <sha_> yes, i thought so, too... until i realised that locked files in samba are not seen in NFS
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| 11:57 | <Hyperbyte> For starters, I'd choose to use NFS for Linux <-> Linux sharing... then you can use NFS_HOME in lts.conf
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| 11:58 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, ah - Samba has lots of options for locking, so does NFS. I believe both have extended locking features disabled by default
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| 12:00 | I know we had it working perfectly at the radio station I volunteer at, even with Microsoft Access Databases (which are even more horrifying when it comes to locking)
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| 12:00 | We've since dropped Windows though. :-)
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| 12:02 | sha_, man smb.conf
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| 12:02 | "kernel oplocks"
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| 12:02 | <sha_> i'm not sure about that. sharing /home via NFS _and_ SMB was giving much errors with locked files in here. but let's assume I would use NFS instead of SMB ... with NFS_HOME , i only can mount from the ltsp-server, right?
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| 12:02 | <Hyperbyte> Should be enabled by default.
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| 12:03 | Hm, seems NFS_HOME is even deprecated
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| 12:04 | Either way, you can use FSTAB_0 to FSTAB_9 lts.conf options to insert lines in /etc/fstab on clients
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| 12:04 | <sha_> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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| 12:04 | <Hyperbyte> At the radiostation right now, I mount a /data dir on all clients
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| 12:04 | It has in lts.conf:
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| 12:05 | <sha_> where did you find that info (FSTAB_0)? in my man lts.conf , there's so much undocumented
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| 12:05 | <Hyperbyte> FSTAB_0=supportserver:/data /data nfs defaults 0 0
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| 12:05 | Yeah, that's a bit problematic
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| 12:05 | <sha_> yesterday i found "REMOTE_APPS", but not in the manpage
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| 12:06 | <Hyperbyte> :-)
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| 12:06 | <JustSomeGuy> a nice ltsp manual would be nice yeah :D
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| 12:06 | <Hyperbyte> Well, I've perused quite a bit of the source code, and hang around here a lot
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| 12:06 | Well hey guys!
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| 12:06 | I agree!
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| 12:06 | So how about you two roll up your sleeves and get writing!
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| 12:06 | <JustSomeGuy> hmh could do
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| 12:06 | <Hyperbyte> We have a fantastic wiki, the LTSPedia: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/LTSPedia
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| 12:06 | <sha_> thank you very much ... with FSTAB=.. a core problem should be solved: mounting a public samba share
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| 12:07 | <Hyperbyte> Feel free to write all your documentation there.
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| 12:07 | sha_ could write a fantastic article about mounting shares on thin/fat clients using the FSTAB configuration options.
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| 12:07 | :-)
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| 12:08 | <sha_> and REMOTE_APPS!
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| 12:08 | <JustSomeGuy> ltsp in a nutshell sounds good? ^^
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| 12:08 | <Hyperbyte> Every contribution you could make sounds good. :-)
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| 12:09 | Oh, and don't forget to add your LTSP setup to our world database: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/
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| 12:09 | <sha_> i'm wondering what cool stuff am i still missing, except REMOTE_APPS and FSTAB
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| 12:10 | yes, when the setup is finished, i'll certainly do that
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| 12:11 | <Hyperbyte> Good. :)
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| 12:11 | <JustSomeGuy> yeah me too and now i have a reason to use latex again ;D
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| 12:14 | but i still have the pam_mkhomedir problem... the auth.log doesnt even show ldm using ssh just su when i login over ssh everything works fine
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| 12:35 | <sha_> do you think it's possible to mount /home with FSTAB_X on a fatclient? i mean: how would you then disable the sshfs/nfs-mount-home-mechanism?
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| 12:49 | <sha_> thanks again for the FSTAB_0 example, works very well... before that i thought about preparing a fstab in the fatclient chroot and sudo for mounting etc. - much less trouble with FSTAB_X
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| 12:59 | <sha_> okay great, mounting /home with FSTAB_x also works
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| 13:02 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, on LDM login, the client checks if the users' home directory exists already
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| 13:02 | If it does, it doesn't try to mount it
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| 13:04 | <sha_> nice!
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| 13:08 | <sha_> so i guess my main problems are solved with FSTAB_X. only problem left for now is gvfs, but i'm sure it's missing a package (though i'm wondering why "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" and "apt-get install gnome-shell" aren't installing all needed packages for gvfs)
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| 13:16 | <sha_> yes, 'apt-get install gvfs-backends' did the trick.
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| 13:38 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, I still say it's worth it to debug your Samba/NFS locking problem
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| 13:39 | You're eliminating sshfs to cut down on overhead, but I bet if you benchmark it, that nfs + sshfs is a lot faster than cifs.
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| 13:39 | I know for sure that nfs alone is faster, which you could of course do once you eliminate cifs. :P
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| 13:47 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: i don't think that it really would work safe (samba+nfs), when googling for that subject i find something pessimistic like this from a Samba Developer http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2008-May/140374.html
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| 13:48 | Hyperbyte: but i would really be interested in NFS - perhaps samba is not much needed anymore, when the win2k3-terminalserver gets down.
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| 13:49 | Hyperbyte: but i'm not sure i get the concept right - when you are mounting a NFS share as /home on a fatclient, you would need to create the same users with same usernames with the same uid in the fatclient chroot, right?
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| 13:50 | <sha_> UID mapping - at least in NFSv3 - is a bit disturbing...
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| 13:51 | <AMorozov> Hi! can anybody suggest how to check to what seat a USB disk was assigned by ConsoleKit & Co
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| 13:53 | I see that my session (listed by ck-list-session) is marked active but udiskctl mount -b /dev/myusbdisk still asks for password as if it was "other seat".
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| 13:53 | <gvy> amorozov, nsk...
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| 13:53 | lesha, ty? :)
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| 13:53 | <AMorozov> gvy: yes, I'm
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| 13:54 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, no
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| 13:55 | sha_, ideally, you would not create users anywhere on a server, you would create them in a database.
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| 13:55 | <AMorozov> I'm trying to resolve that issue with "USB disks under KDE-4.9"
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| 13:55 | <Hyperbyte> Ever since I used 389-Directory Server, I don't understand why ANYONE would create users locally on a server.
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| 13:55 | 389 DS or OpenLDAP are much better alternatives either way for managing users than /etc/passwd is.
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| 13:56 | And it solves all problems you have regarding spreading your users over multiple servers
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| 13:57 | The office of the company I work for is based in Rotterdam, we have a mailserver in Germany. Accounts on the mail server are the exact same ones as locally here on the network. Replicating 389 servers. :-)
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| 13:57 | We have several servers here, all users have the same accounts everywhere
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| 14:03 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: that's surely a nice and clean solution, but in some setups LDAP would be just overkill. we have 15-20 employees, at the moment it's better to have two terminalservers with local accounts than to build a high-available LDAP
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| 14:06 | maybe later in future, but right now there is at least no time for LDAP ... win2k3 keeps crashing and i need a working LTSP setup
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| 14:08 | so I assume creating the users in fatclient chroot with same uid etc. would be the right approach for NFS?
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| 14:23 | <tarzeau> does anyone run an ltsp server on ubuntu 12.04?
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| 14:24 | it fails to boot my clients here... :(
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| 14:25 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, we have less than 15-20 employees here.
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| 14:25 | 11, to be exact.
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| 14:26 | I don't see LDAP as overkill though.
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| 14:26 | It took me 10 minutes to install.
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| 14:26 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: whow, okay... i read 1-2 hours in an openldap book and decided it was "too much"
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| 14:26 | <Hyperbyte> So far it's saved me from creating duplicate accounts across 4 different servers.
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| 14:26 | On Fedora I did 'yum install 389-ds'
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| 14:27 | Then typed '389-console' and added users
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| 14:27 | <sha_> tarzeau: yes
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| 14:27 | <Hyperbyte> Then ran system-auth-config I believe, and selected ldap
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| 14:27 | <tarzeau> could i be affected by this? http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=7;bug=693636
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| 14:27 | ii ltsp-server 5.3.7-0ubuntu2 Basic LTSP server environment
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| 14:27 | <Hyperbyte> tarzeau, me too, by the way. LTSP works fine on 12.04. Get specific about what exactly happens.
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| 14:27 | <tarzeau> i got that version, and the patch is for a later one
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| 14:28 | i land in an initramfs and ls doesn't show /boot
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| 14:28 | for what file is that patch exactly? (full file name)
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| 14:29 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: sounds really nice, i will think about that - though i don't think that an openldap setup would be completed in 15 minutes (i have practically zero LDAP-knowledge)
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| 14:29 | <tarzeau> ah the bug title says
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| 14:30 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, OpenLDAP is a bit more challenging than 389-DS I think.
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| 14:32 | <sha_> i even don't know what 389-ds is... i saw LDAP integration very often in different software, but never 389-ds
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| 14:37 | <Hyperbyte> http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Main_Page
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| 14:43 | <sha_> Hyperbyte: thank you. it really get's harder and harder to maintain the different user accounts on different servers, but still easier as openldap. if 389-ds is "openldap, but easy" it could be the right piece of puzzle
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| 14:48 | <Hyperbyte> sha_, it's not just about maintenance
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| 14:48 | It's also flexibility
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| 14:49 | You can tie -any- data you want to the LDAP users
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| 14:49 | Let's say you're going to use VOIP in the future... you could tie Asterisk accounts to the LDAP users
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| 14:49 | So you suddenly have your 15-20 user accounts in Asterisk, and they will always to be up-to-date
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| 14:50 | Or let's say you need to implement a web calendar for your users to use... find one that supports LDAP, and everybody can login using the same credentials
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| 14:56 | <sha_> sure. i can think of many flexibility with LDAP, no question. the point is (or was) for me if LDAP really "helps" when i don't invest two months of learning
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| 14:57 | <Hyperbyte> I didn't for 389-DS.
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| 14:57 | Jumped right in!
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| 14:57 | Got it working straight away too... then I went to set up multi master replication, and that took some doing... I had to actually figure out what I was doing
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| 14:57 | But most people don't need that.
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| 15:03 | <||cw> sha_: did you read the history on 389-ds yet? it was novell directory server in a past incarnation.
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| 15:06 | <sha_> ||cw: i read http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ#How_is_389_different_from_OpenLDAP.3F , there they mention it was slapd and then netscape directory server before
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| 15:06 | anyway, sounds good...worth a try
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| 15:08 | <||cw> oh right, netscape, the other N-word
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| 15:08 | brb
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| 15:22 | <gvy> FWIW, <AMorozov> http://paste.kde.org/620924/
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| 18:56 | <dluzius> need help getting opensuse to connect to wlan, is this the right channel
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| 18:58 | <knipwim> have you tried #opensuse?
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