IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 January 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 12:55 | <VectorX> few questions on the topic\
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| 12:56 | so i got one client machine booting up, got a switch, plugged in the server to port 1, and the client to another port, what configuration do i need to do for it to boot up now ?
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| 13:07 | <VectorX> sorry got d/c
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| 13:09 | so i got 2 clients plugged in, one boots up and the other says "PXE-E61 Media test failure, check cable" at boot init
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| 13:09 | i switched the cable so that can be ruled out
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> !gpxe | echo VectorX
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| 13:24 | <ltsp`> VectorX gpxe: the successor to etherboot (http://etherboot.org). To download bootable floppy, cd, usb, kernel etc images, visit http://rom-o-matic.net/
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> You can try that, it produces much better error messages
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| 13:28 | <VectorX> i am wondering if the lan itself went bust, the lights are not coming on
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| 13:33 | <VectorX> actually i just plugged it in directly to the server again and its working
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| 13:51 | <VectorX> tried a different type of cable and it worked
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| 13:55 | where can i find info on setting up the client image ?
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| 13:55 | with software
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| 14:04 | <lipinski> Anyone have any luck with LTSP on Ubuntu Oneiric (11.10)? My client does not have a launcher..
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> VectorX: do you mean localapps? or fat clients?
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| 14:06 | lipinski: it works fine here, yes
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| 14:06 | <lipinski> just a standard LTSP install.
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| 14:07 | Everything was working on older Ubuntu. I upgraded to 11.10, then ran ltsp-build-client to get the new client image built.
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| 14:07 | <alkisg> What is your problem?
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| 14:07 | <lipinski> When the client starts up, I get the desktop, but there is no launcher "bar" or anything. So, I can't start any programs.
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| 14:07 | I had to Ctrl-Alt-T to get a terminal and kick off a program that way.
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| 14:08 | Same as this person: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1870857
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> Maybe your graphics card can't handle unity, try with unity-2d or with the gnome fallback session
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| 14:08 | Run unity from that terminal
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| 14:08 | (or unity-2d, etc etc) to see if it works
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| 14:08 | <lipinski> ok - will give a try. back in a few
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> dgroos: hey, did it work?
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| 14:11 | <lipinski> yes - unity died.
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| 14:11 | so I ran unity-2d-launcher and that got me a launcher bar.
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| 14:11 | <alkisg> Search the mailing list archives, there's a note there about selecting unity-2d
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| 14:11 | <lipinski> excellent - thanks.
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> lipinski: something like that, but for unity-2d:
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| 14:12 | !classic-gnome
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| 14:12 | <ltsp`> alkisg: classic-gnome: To set classic-gnome as the default session instead of Unity in Ubuntu >= 11.04, put LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=classic-gnome" in lts.conf
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| 14:15 | <lipinski> I can't find how to set Unity-2d.
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| 14:15 | I see the LDM_XSESSION line for lts.conf for using gnome classic
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| 14:16 | This?:
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| 14:16 | LDM_DIRECTX=True
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| 14:16 | LDM_SESSION=”gnome-session –session=ubuntu-2d”
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> Probably
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| 14:25 | <lipinski> ok - going to try that. Thanks all for thje help
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> dgroos, dgroos_, dgroos1: if you can give me remote access to one of your clients, I can try to see why you're getting gray icons...
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| 16:08 | <dgroos__> alkisg: hmmm… let me think how I can do that remotely--launching a virtual box fat client on the server?
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| 16:09 | The problem with that is that the keyboard map is messed up when I do that through NX to the server...
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> dgroos__: sure, a vbox fat client would be fine
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| 16:10 | Which nx server are you using?
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| 16:10 | <dgroos_> openNX
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| 16:11 | as the client.
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> Anyway I can get access to the VM with rdesktop too (vbox supports that)
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| 16:12 | So I don't think the keyboard map will be an issue
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| 16:12 | <dgroos1> OK, it's started... what was that command to connect, again?
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> x11vnc -noshm -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 16:15 | <dgroos1> 'k, I just logged in to the vm fat client
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> Thanks, let's see...
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| 16:19 | dgroos1: wait, the plan is to run epoptes on a fat client?
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| 16:19 | <dgroos_> right
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> Ah, I only copied the client certificate, that won't do then...
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| 16:21 | Ah #2, and you'll be using remoteapps to launch epoptes from the fat client?
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> dgroos_: epoptes isn't installed in your chroot... but that's ok, remoteapps is a good approach to do that
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| 16:22 | <dgroos_> Well, we did that, but I seem to remember that changing with the newer version of epoptes
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| 16:23 | <dgroos_> (from a couple of months ago)
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> You *could* have all the other fat clients connect to a specific fat client which the teacher uses,
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| 16:24 | <dgroos_> I think it was no longer needed since one didn't need to sudo to launch epoptes since the user group was defined in the prefs...
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> but you'd need that fat client to have a static IP or dns name,
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| 16:24 | and if you have a mixed-mode network, gigabit on the server and 100mbps on the clients, you'd lose the gigabit speed
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| 16:25 | So in general I prefer the remoteapps approach
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| 16:25 | <dgroos_> so remote apps still the best way? Right, that was it as well.
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> I don't remember suggesting something else to you...
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| 16:25 | So yeah let's stick to remoteapps
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| 16:25 | <dgroos_> OK, let me resurrect my memory on this.
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| 16:25 | sure :D
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> So... now, you launched a fat client and you ran epoptes
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| 16:25 | ...where did you find epoptes, if not on the server?!
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| 16:25 | It's not installed in the chroot
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| 16:26 | <dgroos_> ?
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> epoptes and epoptes-client get installed in the server
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| 16:26 | Only epoptes-client gets installed in the chroot
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| 16:26 | So you can't run epoptes from a fat client
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| 16:26 | <dgroos_> I think this VM I just launched is a fat not thin client...
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> Unless you already use remoteapps
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| 16:26 | (or if the VM is a thin client)
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| 16:27 | <dgroos_> OK…
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| 16:28 | OK can you type into the vm the ltsp-remoteapps epoptes command?
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| 16:28 | <dgroos_> my keymap….
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| 16:29 | :D
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 16:30 | I think we had modified the epoptes.desktop file to run remotely
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| 16:30 | Or we put an /home/username/bin/epoptes override to do that
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| 16:30 | <dgroos_> Wouldn't epoptes work on the server?
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| 16:30 | yes
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| 16:30 | <alkisg> Because I see the gnome-terminal having a different hostname (the fat client one),
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| 16:30 | from epoptes, which says the server hostname in the title bar
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| 16:31 | So anyway... outside the VM, are you on the server?
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| 16:31 | So, can you run epoptes there?
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| 16:32 | If you manage to type `setxkbmap us`, you'll fix the keyboard map problems :)
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| 16:32 | <dgroos_> yes, but grayed out as well as well…
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| 16:32 | I'll do that! in the terminal? w/sudo?
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> Without sudo
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| 16:33 | In a terminal inside the nx session
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| 16:33 | <dgroos_> 'k
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> Maybe middle click (for copy/paste) will work with your NX client
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| 16:33 | <dgroos_> Yes!
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| 16:37 | <dgroos_> thanks for trying!
| |
| 16:39 | <alkisg> dgroos_ you can enable rdp for that vbox client
| |
| 16:39 | And use rdesktop to access it
| |
| 16:40 | ...but it goes too far... if I had ssh access, I could do it from here, but maybe it's too much to ask
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| 16:40 | Maybe postpone it for when you're on-site?
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| 16:40 | <dgroos_> The deal is that to get access to the server I have to go through VPN
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| 16:41 | I don't mind doing this.
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> OK, let's go private...
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> dgroos_: I'm going to assume that after we regenerated the server certificate, we didn't restart the epoptes daemon
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| 17:00 | <dgroos_> I didn't restart the server...
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> ...so it kept running from Jan 10, with the old certificate, thus rejecting new connections that had the new certificate
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| 17:00 | <dgroos_> right.
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> I was supposed to run `sudo service epoptes restart` after regenerating the openssl key yesterday
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| 17:00 | <dgroos_> I didn't think of that.
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| 17:00 | <alkisg> I don't remember if I did, I'll assume not
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| 17:00 | <dgroos_> I don't remember you doing that.
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> So until you notice any other problems, I'll ...close the case :P
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| 17:01 | (left vnc)
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| 17:01 | <dgroos_> Thanks for your help again!!!
| |
| 17:01 | so, remote apps the way to go on the fat clients?
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> np, thanks for being a beta tester ;)
| |
| 17:02 | Yes
| |
| 17:02 | That's what we have the desktop icon for
| |
| 17:02 | But you can also override it with an /home/username/bin/epoptes wrapper
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| 17:02 | <dgroos_> I live somewhere between alpha and beta in my life :)
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> So that it works with the normal icon from the gnome menu
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| 17:03 | ...with the following contents:
| |
| 17:03 | #!/bin/sh
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| 17:03 | ltsp-remoteapps /usr/bin/epoptes
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| 17:04 | * alkisg goes on to prepare the certificate solution... | |
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| 17:05 | <dgroos_> have fun!
| |
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| 17:21 | <dgroos_> alkisg:
| |
| 17:22 | <alkisg> yup?
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| 17:22 | <dgroos_> alkisg: (hit that enter key too quickly…)
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> Hehe
| |
| 17:22 | Go on
| |
| 17:23 | <dgroos_> OK, fyi I was on the client, ran /usr/sbin/epoptes-client and then when I control-C it I disconnected from epoptes which was running on the server.
| |
| 17:24 | Not that I figure a student would figure that out :)
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> dgroos_: any user can kill epoptes-client, yeah. In the future we want to make it a session master, so if they kill it, their session dies :P
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| 17:25 | (otherwise we'd have to run it as root and we don't want that)
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| 17:25 | <dgroos_> right.
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| 17:25 | <vagrantc> should be pretty easy to make it a master session
| |
| 17:25 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the certificate generated by default by openssl is only valid for 1 month, so epoptes installations have started not working... I'm thinking of doing this on the next version to fix it:
| |
| 17:25 | On postinst, if we're upgrading a "broken" epoptes version, we regenerate the certificate and make it last for 10 years, and display a debconf NOTE to the user, to notify him that the certificate was regenerated and that he should copy it to his chroot or his clients. Does that sound OK, postinst-wise?
| |
| 17:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sure
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> Thanks :)
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> although i'd go more with 5 years, but whatever.
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> 5, no problem
| |
| 17:27 | <dgroos_> Does that solution relate to making it so that if a student shuts down the computer when it is in lock-out mode, then restarts and re-logs in it will go back to the lock-out mode?
| |
| 17:27 | That's a pretty big feature.
| |
| 17:28 | <alkisg> dgroos_: no, that too is planned, but it's unrelated
| |
| 17:28 | <dgroos_> ah.
| |
| 17:28 | <alkisg> Do you think it's very significant?
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| 17:28 | I'd just re-lock any users that logoff...
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| 17:29 | <dgroos_> assuming I'm monitoring that and not in the middle of some instructional move.
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> True
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| 17:30 | <dgroos_> and students know when to try things :) they are smart like us all :)
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| 17:30 | <alkisg> The way we arrange the classrooms, the teacher always sees the physical student screens
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| 17:31 | So I keep forgetting that there are other classroom arrangements too
| |
| 17:31 | <dgroos_> Really, there is a standard layout?
| |
| 17:31 | <alkisg> There is some literature about how it's best done, yes,
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| 17:31 | <dgroos_> We do it however here. Of course my screens are under the table top :)
| |
| 17:31 | <alkisg> but almost all labs here use a pi-shaped layout
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| 17:32 | <dgroos_> π-shaped?
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| 17:32 | <alkisg> 3 sides computers, 4th rectangle side == teacher
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| 17:32 | Hehe, yup, π-shaped :)
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| 17:32 | That's how we call it
| |
| 17:32 | <dgroos_> sure
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| 17:33 | It wouldn't work here as we often need more clients available--there is usually rows in the middle was well.
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| 17:33 | *as
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> You must have larger labs than us :)
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| 17:33 | <dgroos_> more like a pie with filling ;)
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| 17:34 | 30 + clients I think, sometimes.
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> Ouch. Each student has his own PC?
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| 17:35 | We usually have 12 clients and < 20 students
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| 17:35 | <dgroos_> Often. There is national-mandated testing and it is now done on computers.
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> (we split classes with 30 students to two, when they go to the computer lab)
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| 17:35 | <dgroos_> less than 20 students?
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| 17:35 | OK
| |
| 17:35 | Who supervises the half that stays back?
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> They do another lesson
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| 17:36 | <dgroos_> on their own?
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> No, with a teacher
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| 17:36 | So class A gets split into A1 and A2
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| 17:36 | <dgroos_> Oh, so there is a computer lab teacher?
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> A1 does some computer lesson,
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| 17:36 | and A2 does some technology lesson
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| 17:37 | And some other day in the same week they do the opposite
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| 17:37 | <dgroos_> Sure, makes tons of sense, I was just wondering how you manage it with teachers.
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> The same happens with gymnastics and english language teachers
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| 17:38 | <dgroos_> So these teachers have half-sized classes?
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| 17:38 | <alkisg> Class A gets splitted into "A-students advanced in english" and "A-students with only basic english knowledge"
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| 17:39 | <dgroos_> We don't spend that much money on that many teachers. :(
| |
| 17:39 | <alkisg> So it's easier for the english teacher to do a lessson without half of the students getting bored
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| 17:39 | <dgroos_> for sure.
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| 17:39 | <alkisg> I think, relatively speaking, we're getting paid better too... but I fear that's going to change
| |
| 17:39 | E.g. a teacher gets about the same money as a programmer or a sysadmin etc
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| 17:40 | <dgroos_> I've been thinking of you as I read our newspapers about the goings-on in Greece.
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| 17:41 | Sounds tough.
| |
| 17:41 | * alkisg has given up on catching up with the news... and just waits for the crisis to be over | |
| 17:41 | <alkisg> Yes, they cut about 1/4 of our salaries
| |
| 17:41 | <dgroos_> wow!
| |
| 17:42 | <alkisg> So it's pretty hard, especially for families where only one parents works
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| 17:43 | <dgroos_> for sure, that puts more pressure for more families to have both parents gone working and that's harder for the family.
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| 17:43 | Your wife work outside the home?
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> She's an english teacher
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| 17:44 | <dgroos_> :)
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> So we're ok yet, even with 3 kids
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| 17:44 | <dgroos_> :)
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> But we can't put aside any money any longer, whatever we make, we spend
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| 17:45 | <dgroos_> wow and imagine those with 1 paid-working adult in a family system...
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| 17:45 | <alkisg> Yeah my cousin, taxi-driver, even had to go on strike for 1 month, so they had no income whatsoever... _that_ is hard :-/
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| 17:46 | <mistik1> The sad part of all this is that the crisis state of the world is just begining
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| 17:46 | <alkisg> What I haven't figured out yet, is who is pushing that crisis
| |
| 17:46 | <dgroos_> ?
| |
| 17:47 | <alkisg> Economic crises don't just "happen", do they?
| |
| 17:47 | Someone must be pulling the strings somewhere...
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| 17:47 | <mistik1> The worlds economy is off balance, too few has been making too much for far too long
| |
| 17:48 | <dgroos_> I know that my car can break down when I'm driving even when I don't do something stupid or malicious...
| |
| 17:48 | <mistik1> if one guy can take 800 billion out of an economy how much can he posibly put back in
| |
| 17:48 | <dgroos_> mistik1: so true!
| |
| 17:48 | <mistik1> The world cannot sustain in that manner
| |
| 17:50 | <dgroos_> bbl
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| 17:57 | * vagrantc would say the illusion of the many economic shell games are starting to show through | |
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| 18:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, planning on making a bugfix release for epoptes, then?
| |
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no, Phantomas has the groups feature ready and it only needs some debugging, so I'll wait for that, I guess it's a matter of a few days
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| 18:28 | I hope that release will be stable enough to see wider adoption. It's even been translated to > 5 languages now :)
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> nice
| |
| 18:29 | so i probably should bother making an official backport of 0.3.x to debian stable?
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| 18:30 | should not bother
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| 18:31 | alkisg: have you seen xpra? i've heard it has some stability issues, but might be interesting for epoptes
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> (08:30:39 μμ) vagrantc: should not bother => yup, wait for the groups feature
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| 18:32 | xpra is for running X under windows, right?
| |
| 18:32 | I think cygwin would be more appropriate, for epoptes-client...
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| 18:33 | <vagrantc> seems X related from what i can see
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| 18:34 | more like VNC, but for a single application at a time, and also can resume connections and such
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> I've tried it once, but if you're talking about porting epoptes-client to MS windows, I don't think it's suitable...
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> i'm not talking about windows connections at all
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| 18:35 | unless you mean X windows :P
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> Hmmm no, but I only tried xpra under ms windows :D
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| 18:35 | Hehe
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/xpra
| |
| 18:36 | essentially a rootless VNC sort of thing
| |
| 18:37 | <alkisg> Yup that's what I tried... I didn't like its performance much, for my use case, so I didn't spend too much time with it
| |
| 18:37 | Where would that help with epoptes?
| |
| 18:37 | <vagrantc> oh, i don't know... :)
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| 18:38 | just some new thing that caught my eye, i guess.
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> From all those remote X solutions, I settled on ltsp (DIRECTX=True) for LAN, and x2go for WAN
| |
| 18:38 | x2go has session suspend + resume, and also sharing
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> vagrantc: Squeeze is similar (age-wise) to Lucid, right? epoptes runs on Lucid without modifications...
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| 18:41 | Let me see the python version...
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| 18:41 | 2.6.6-3+squeeze6 vs 2.6.5-0ubuntu1, it shouldn't have any problems
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| 18:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, pretty similar generations... some things are a bit newer in squeeze
| |
| 18:50 | <alkisg> vagrantc: is the old version of the package being upgraded passed as a parameter to postinst?
| |
| 18:51 | # summary of how this script can be called:
| |
| 18:51 | # * <postinst> `configure' <most-recently-configured-version>
| |
| 18:51 | Does that mean the already installed version, or the one being installed now?
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| 19:02 | <vagrantc> alkisg: depends on the previous state
| |
| 19:02 | * vagrantc digs around for docs | |
| 19:02 | * alkisg tries `echo "$@" > /tmp/output` from a test.postinst... | |
| 19:03 | <vagrantc> http://wiki.debian.org/MaintainerScripts
| |
| 19:03 | your file redirectors are quite possibly not what you'd expecrt
| |
| 19:03 | due to debconf
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| 19:05 | alkisg: now that i think about it, we really should avoid debconf NOTEs ... i think error *might* be more appropriate
| |
| 19:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I was thinking to keep that note for all cases where a certificate is generated
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| 19:05 | E.g. even on clean installations
| |
| 19:05 | Is an error more appropriate there too?
| |
| 19:06 | vagrantc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/803302/
| |
| 19:06 | epoptes.templates
| |
| 19:06 | <vagrantc> i think NOTE might even be oon it's way to deprecation ... abuse of NOTE is looked upon badly
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| 19:08 | <alkisg> When I upgrade debian systems, sometimes the upgrade stops and a changelog is shown to me, and I need to exit that for the upgrade to continue
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| 19:08 | Is that "note" ?
| |
| 19:08 | <vagrantc> think so, and that's exactly why they're looked upon with scorn
| |
| 19:09 | in particular, even with NONINTERACTIVE set, they tend to halt things up...
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> I see... hmmm ok I'll leave it as a note, but only for this specific problem where the old certificate has expired
| |
| 19:09 | So it won't be shown ever again, except to the few people that already have a broken installation
| |
| 19:09 | * vagrantc actually checks the paste link | |
| 19:10 | <vagrantc> also, debconf is really easy to get wrong...
| |
| 19:10 | <alkisg> . /usr/share/debconf/confmodule
| |
| 19:10 | db_input high epoptes/generated_openssl_certificate || true
| |
| 19:10 | db_go
| |
| 19:10 | I only have that..
| |
| 19:11 | <vagrantc> i guess, if you're not doing any interactive questions, it should be fine ...
| |
| 19:12 | the problem gets into interactive questions with configuration files, and the fact that debconf gets run twice...
| |
| 19:13 | <alkisg> Do you suggest I use "error" even if I only show it for expired certificates?
| |
| 19:14 | * vagrantc reads up | |
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| 19:49 | <alkisg> Wow we got our dedicated lintian page :P http://lintian.debian.org/full/epoptes@lists.launchpad.net.html#epoptes
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and of course: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=alkisg@gmail.com
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> Hehe good one
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