IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 July 2012 (all times are UTC)
| 00:05 | <Guest76542> You rock!! Disabled compiz and now I can log in. I guess the local X server can't properly handle accelerated 3D :-)
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| 00:06 | <vagrantc> lots of software gets confused these days when not running on local hardware :(
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| 00:06 | make a lot of bad assumptions ... compiz actually improves performance on hardware that supports it, i hear.
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| 00:06 | (with LTSP)
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| 00:07 | <Guest76542> Yep, I am wondering how long before we can't have thin clients anymore. Things are moving in the wrong direction for multi-user setups.
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| 00:08 | <vagrantc> that's part of why LTSP has developed fatclient support, as well as localapps and remoteapps
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| 00:12 | <Guest76542> My little thin clients need a workout :-) Local chrome/firefox with HTML5 and flash could be fun. We have a mix of PCs, zotac and acer netops based on low power stuff, but they do have the nvidia accelerated chipsets so I don't quite know what the issue was w/ compiz.
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| 00:13 | <vagrantc> nvidia doesn't have a good history of providing sane drivers to the community
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| 00:13 | <Guest76542> We still have a couple of 8 year old thin clients for fun, but none of the old netvista ones (256 colors, yikes)
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| 00:13 | <vagrantc> so the reverse-engineered stuff has issues, and the binary drivers they ship tend to have other bugs
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| 00:14 | <Guest76542> I would prefer AMD only with all the work they are doing to open source their stuff, but they are hard to find on thin clients. At the PC level we tend to get them with Intel graphics.
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| 00:15 | Basically we buy what's cheapest at the time we do deployments.
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| 00:15 | <vagrantc> intel actually employs upstream X maintainers to get those to work...
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| 00:17 | <Guest76542> Uhmm, I just checked the box I was testing with. It has the intel 82Q35 express integrated controller, that should of worked with the default 12.04 drivers. Maybe I need to look more into it.
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| 02:16 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: pushed the mist theme that worked for me.
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| 02:16 | highvoltage: except for the orange bit.
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| 02:17 | just to make progress on it.
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| 02:23 | we figure out that orange, and we're ready to upload!
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| 02:55 | <highvoltage> ok thanks vagrantc.
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| 02:56 | * highvoltage is getting poked about a ton of things atm | |
| 02:56 | <highvoltage> (but not complaining, debconf is fun :p)
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| 02:56 | even getting suckered into contributing to the debconf 14 bid for montréal :)
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| 02:58 | <vagrantc> wahoo
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| 03:07 | highvoltage: i think i found it
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| 03:42 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: oh cool! where are you now, the hacklab?
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| 03:43 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: yup.
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| 03:43 | highvoltage: yak shaving broken archives to get a test environment for the theme :(
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| 03:47 | looks like i finally have a working build
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| 04:02 | ugh. i forgot that cdpinger doesn't seem to be working :(
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| 04:06 | highvoltage: what i'm kind of thinking is ignoring the suggestion to update-alternatives --remove in postrm ... since i think the bug was triggered by it simply not having the line to remove the theme in the joy theme (it only has the removal for spacefun)
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| 04:07 | that will significantly reduce the diff, reduce lintian warnings, and follows current debian policy, not a proposed change to policy that's as yet unresolved.
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| 05:05 | ChanServ sets mode: +o knipwim | |
| 05:06 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: verified and pushed the color change. should be finally ready to upload tomorrow.
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| 05:07 | knipwim changes topic to "LTSP Wiki Beta released at http://server.ltsp.org/wiki. Check out Ubuntu, Debian and Gentoo for awesome LTSP-5 integration. Opensuse has kiwi-ltsp and Fedora has k12linux. IRC logs at: http://irclogs.ltsp.org, LTSP Docs: http://docs.ltsp.org" | |
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| 05:35 | <laurei> Hello my friends, has anyone ever tried to save local cache of the chroot to store on a laptop hard drive for offsite use?
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| 05:35 | <muppis> I did it once.
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| 05:36 | <laurei> yay:) how did you go with that?
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| 05:36 | <muppis> Just dropped it to hdd, removed nbd mounting from initrd and installed grub.
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| 05:38 | There can be some fine tuning what need to do to get it in full shape, like having a local lts.conf and so.
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| 05:39 | <laurei> i'd ideally like to update the laptop when the chroot updates via some scripts, so its always got the latest version, im sure someone has done this outside of ltsp, just wonder how much trouble this would be
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| 05:40 | <muppis> Doing it for multiple laptops?
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| 05:42 | <muppis> Only gain what will be from that is you can use wlan instead of lan. But with many of them, it will kill the bandwith.
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| 05:43 | <laurei> yeah muppis for sure, it seems like a natural thing for ltsp to grow into for the userbase' requirements
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| 05:45 | I was thinking for example teachers that take the laptops home for the night but still would like to use the same software without having need of a whole new os install
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| 05:45 | <muppis> That's more tricky.
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| 05:45 | <laurei> i can see its hugely complex, yes :)
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| 05:46 | <muppis> I think it's doable, but not usable.
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| 05:46 | <laurei> but its an interesting thought
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| 05:47 | the homedir synching would be tricky
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| 05:47 | and background syncing of the os
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| 05:48 | <muppis> OS sync can be done in lan, as it not needed everyday. Like once a week, if even then.
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| 05:49 | <laurei> yeah thats a good idea
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| 05:50 | then it just rests on a good implementation of local/lan/cloud home dirs
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| 05:51 | <laurei> if any already exists
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| 05:55 | <muppis> I think it doesn't
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| 05:57 | <alkisg> "I was thinking for example teachers that take the laptops home for the night but still would like to use the same software without having need of a whole new os install "
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| 05:57 | ==> Are you talking about thin or fat chroots? Because for thin chroots, they'd still have bandwidth problems accessing the server remotely... x2go would be much better in that case
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| 06:01 | <laurei> yeah alkisg fat ones, i like authing with ldap, so nothing changes in the chroot except for updates and the occasional app install
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| 06:02 | <alkisg> And why not normal installations with ltsp-client also installed in them?
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| 06:02 | <laurei> does that work off site?
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| 06:03 | <alkisg> They're normal installations, so yeah
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| 06:04 | <laurei> ive never seen fat clients booting from local disk if thats what you mean?
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| 06:04 | <muppis> Just normal local installation.
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| 06:05 | <alkisg> There's no need for ltsp-build-client nowadays, one can just install ltsp-client over a normal local installation
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| 06:06 | After that, only a grub entry and just a bit of initramfs tweaking is needed
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| 06:07 | <laurei> oh yeah ok :) haven't heard of it obviously a big hole in my knowledge right there, but im assuming this would mean administering each individual system separately if they were independent installs?
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| 06:08 | <alkisg> Yup. Of course you could use some of the mass-maintenance utilities.
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| 06:13 | <laurei> using ltsp in the lan is so easy so i guess trying to extend that to the cloud without taking on a second methodology (or the idea) floats my boat, or is that just nonsense?
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| 06:17 | ltsp for world domination anyone?
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| 06:18 | <alkisg> Local caching or image syncing sounds useful for slow LANs, but I don't think it's worth it over WAN with the current speeds
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| 06:19 | And, syncing won't be much different with LTSP vs with normal installations
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| 06:20 | Btrfs snapshots should help a lot with that...
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| 06:23 | <Hyperbyte> Good morning!
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> Morning Hypey
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| 06:24 | <laurei> syncing shouldn't need to be mission critical over wan as long as it eventually gets done, kind of liike the current os update process
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| 06:25 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, recovered from your vacation yet? ;-)
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| 06:25 | <alkisg> Nah... I can't get myself to look at code just yet :D
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| 06:28 | laurei: well if you want to work on it, grub 2 does support booting from loopback images, and you could have a compressed btrfs nbd image instead of a squashfs'ed one in order for rsync to work
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| 06:30 | <laurei> I'd love to, I can't believe how much I've learned so far, may have a little more to go in that though
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| 06:41 | what is the advantage of btrfs in this setup?
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| 06:42 | <alkisg> squashfs doesn't support writing
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| 06:42 | So you couldn't use rsync with it
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| 08:11 | <qwebirc67796> hi
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| 08:12 | please anyoine can help me?
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| 08:13 | <muppis> Just ask.
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| 08:38 | <Hyperbyte> !ask | qwebirc67796
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| 08:38 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: Error: "qwebirc67796" is not a valid command.
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| 08:38 | <Hyperbyte> !ask > qwebirc67796
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| 08:38 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
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| 08:38 | <Hyperbyte> eh
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| 08:38 | !ask
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| 08:38 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 08:38 | <muppis> !ask | echo qwebirc67796
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| 08:38 | <ltsp> qwebirc67796 ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 08:38 | <Hyperbyte> !ask | echo qwebirc67796
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| 08:38 | <ltsp> qwebirc67796 ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 08:38 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, got there in the end. :)
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| 08:38 | <muppis> Spammed.
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| 08:39 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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| 15:25 | <[GuS]> Hello!
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| 15:25 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 15:27 | <[GuS]> knipwim: Hi, are you there? Just in case, the quickstart installation is failing. Indeed, is failing to fetch from git repos: git-2_initial_clone: can't fetch from git://git.agaffney.org/quickstart.git
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| 16:01 | <[GuS]> Well, solved. I talked directly with quickstart maintainer.
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| 16:55 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: uploaded new ldm-themes... will upload a new ldm shortly
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| 16:55 | highvoltage: well, later today
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| 17:14 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: just saw :D
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| 17:16 | * vagrantc waves to alkisg | |
| 17:16 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc, hi all
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| 17:16 | New ldm-themes? Nice!
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| 17:17 | vagrantc: if you're going to upload a new ltsp, you might want to include this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/1020113
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> now to make it default for wheezy...
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| 17:19 | alkisg: that could potentially affect all screen scripts?
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| 17:19 | for better or worse?
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| 17:19 | <alkisg> Yes, hopefully in a good way, but it'd need some testing
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> i don't have a great test environment right now, so i'm pretty cautious given the freeze
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| 17:20 | but i was hoping to implement the udev sound handling for freeze
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> Mhm... I might have some time to test + commit tomorrow, if it helps
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| 17:41 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that'd be good ... tomorrow's that last real day of the conference, and it'd be good to get another ltsp upload in before i have another week where i don't know if i'll be able to get to it
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| 17:42 | <alkisg> Cool, will do
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| 20:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm wondering if we shouldn't kill off all the /lib/udev/rules.d/*persistant* stuff
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| 20:40 | persistent
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc: /lib or /etc?
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| 20:41 | /etc/udev/rules.d/
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| 20:43 | $ grep rules /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes
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| 20:43 | etc/udev/rules.d/??-persistent-*.rules
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: /lib/udev/rules.d/ ... handle it like RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES stuff
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> vagrantc: rules in /lib generate files at /etc
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i was thinking for init-ltsp.d
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| 20:43 | <alkisg> The /etc ones are "persistent", the other ones are just code, afaik
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> right
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> So, if one plugs some usb device on a client, then unplugs it, and then again plugs it, we want it to have the same name, no?
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes, but it's a waste of time to set a persistant address for the network interfaces, at least...
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> buut i suppose persistant disk ids makes sense
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| 20:44 | might not be worth the bother
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| 20:45 | <alkisg> Using init-ltsp.d to clean up "etc/udev/rules.d/??-persistent-*.rules" for NFS chroots would make sense though
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> those wouldn't typically get generated anyways
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc> i was only figuring to avoid generating tthem in the first place, but i wasn't thinking about some persistant issues
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| 20:47 | or just kill *persistent-net*
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> One use case is export the chroot with NFS, rw, to a special "template" client, for easier management (e.g. proprietary drivers installation)
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| 20:48 | If the chroot was booted that way, the udev rules would generate persistent files
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