IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 September 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:03 | <alkisg> !gearbest
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| 07:03 | <ltsp> Error: "gearbest" is not a valid command.
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| 08:35 | <NONOmaster> can you guys recommend thin clients?
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> NONOmaster: usually it's best to buy *fat* clients
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| 08:51 | E.g. something like this: http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_367432.html
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| 08:51 | ...or even better, i3 based
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| 08:51 | <NONOmaster> ok fat clients = less traffic?
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> Yes, and usually much better performance
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| 08:52 | You don't need a good server if you have fat clients
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| 08:52 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 08:52 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> This tutorial ^ automatically supports both thins and fats
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| 08:52 | !cpu
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| 08:52 | <ltsp> I have taken 6232.61 seconds of user time and 198.96 seconds of system time, for a total of 6431.57 seconds of CPU time. My children have taken 0.00 seconds of user time and 0.00 seconds of system time for a total of 0.00 seconds of CPU time. I'm taking up 24512 kB of memory.
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| 08:54 | <alkisg> !bench
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| 08:54 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'bench', but I do know about these similar topics: 'lan-benchmark', 'cpubenchmark'
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| 08:54 | <alkisg> !cpubenchmark
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| 08:54 | <ltsp> cpubenchmark: One way to measure your client CPU performance is by looking up its CPU score in cpubenchmark.net. Anything with score below 1000 isn't really acceptable for today's web browsing needs etc. For new clients, try to buy ones with score>2000, whether you plan to run them as LTSP fat clients or to install a local OS in them.
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| 08:54 | <alkisg> NONOmaster: see this advice ^
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| 08:54 | <NONOmaster> thank you
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| 08:54 | <alkisg> Ah, better one: http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_343636.html
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| 08:55 | ...that one has gigabit
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| 08:55 | ..and scores 1210, acceptable: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+x5-Z8300+%40+1.44GHz
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| 08:55 | <NONOmaster> and how about the server
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| 08:56 | <alkisg> If you have all fat clients, anything with gigabit network and 4 gb ram will be fine
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| 08:56 | How many clients will you have?
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| 08:56 | <NONOmaster> 13
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| 08:57 | *15
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| 08:57 | <alkisg> Yup, what I said then
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| 08:58 | <NONOmaster> ok thank you so much!!!
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 14:25 | <THS_> Is it normal that if the Server user and client user have the same name epoptes wont register the client: * Won't add this client to my lists
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| 14:57 | <NONOmaster> !help
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| 14:57 | <ltsp> (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
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| 15:28 | <THS_> !epoptes
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| 15:28 | <ltsp> epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> THS_: no, it's not normal. Do they have the same machine id?
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| 16:13 | THS_: file a bug report with details on how to reproduce this
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| 16:15 | <THS_> ok. the machine id is probably the same because it is a Debian-Live image in a VM
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| 16:23 | The epoptes-client.service was started. Intresting is if I connect via "user@debian:~$ /usr/sbin/epoptes-client server.ip" epoptes finds my client but when the systemd service started not.
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| 16:24 | also no root was required
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| 16:33 | <THS_> The problem is solved. I removed the epoptes-client init script and added it to the normal user session.
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| 17:24 | Now I got another problem. When I try to start the client without root rights it's wokring fine but but with nothing is working. How can I debug this?
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> (07:33:53 μμ) THS_: The problem is solved. I removed the epoptes-client init script and added it to the normal user session. ==> that doesn't make much sense, since the epoptes-client init script doesn't do anything, it's launched by network/if-up
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| 17:27 | And, it's already enabled for the normal user session
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| 17:27 | Which desktop environment are you using?
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| 17:39 | <THS_> XFCE
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| 17:43 | <alkisg> but but with nothing is working"
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| 17:43 | ==> what do you mean by that?
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| 17:44 | That epoptes-client doesn't run as root? THS_
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| 17:44 | <THS_> sorry a typo. exactly
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> You're not using ltsp, are you?
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| 17:44 | <THS_> no I'm not
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> And what is the error message?
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| 17:46 | <THS_> no error message at all
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| 17:46 | <alkisg> So you log in as the user
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| 17:46 | then su -
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| 17:46 | then /usr/sbin/epoptes-client
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| 17:46 | ...and the output?
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| 17:46 | "connecting to server..."?
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| 17:47 | <THS_> no nothing exits without a message
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| 17:48 | <alkisg> Run this:
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| 17:48 | su -
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| 17:48 | sh -x /usr/sbin/epoptes-client | termbin 9999
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| 17:48 | ...and paste the url here
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| 17:48 | <THS_> sudo -i
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| 17:48 | sorry
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> sudo? aren't you on debian?
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| 17:49 | <THS_> Yes I am but with sudo installed
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| 17:49 | penis
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> ok
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| 17:49 | <THS_> sorry again
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> btw, which epoptes version is that?
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| 17:49 | <THS_> 0.5.10
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| 17:55 | Did you mean "sh -x /usr/sbin/epoptes-client | nc termbin.com 9999"
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> yes, sorry
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| 17:56 | !termbin
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| 17:56 | <ltsp> termbin: To share the output of some command, run: command | nc termbin.com 9999 . This executes command , sends its output to termbin.com, and returns a URL. Paste this URL here to share the command output with us.
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| 17:58 | <THS_> http://termbin.com/b7qi
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> THS_: why is this environment "chrooted"?
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| 18:00 | <THS_> I don't now it's not a chroot. Maybe the detection goes wrong
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| 18:00 | <alkisg> What kind of VM is this?
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| 18:01 | <THS_> Virtualbox Debian 8.5 32bit custom live iso
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| 18:01 | with socat version 1.7.3.1
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> try this please. sudo chmod -x /usr/sbin/epoptes
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| 18:01 | *bin
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| 18:01 | Then try again to run epoptes-client
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| 18:01 | It should run...
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| 18:05 | <THS_> thx now it is working fine. Maybe it's that it checks for capabilities and squashfs does not support that. This is an easy fix on my side
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| 18:05 | <alkisg> No
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| 18:05 | We just don't allow epoptes-client to run as root in the epoptes server
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| 18:06 | So if /usr/bin/epoptes is there, epoptes-client refuses to start
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| 18:06 | <THS_> ah ok
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| 18:08 | Can I disable that because I use it in an BYOD environment and each user can also be server.
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> How come you're not using ltsp in this case?
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| 18:09 | It sounds like you're trying to reinvent what ltsp already does
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| 18:10 | <THS_> Local use without an Server and touching any files on the users maschiene
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| 18:10 | <alkisg> How will they get those vms?
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| 18:10 | ltsp fat clients don't touch any files as well
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| 18:10 | <THS_> This is just my test setup
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| 18:10 | <alkisg> I mean, how are they going to boot, where will they find that image
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| 18:11 | <THS_> Boot from a USB-Stick. Project Page: http://www.imedias.ch/projekte/lernstick/lernstick_abstract_english.cfm
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| 18:11 | <alkisg> Sounds like an ltsp fat client case, all right
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| 18:11 | !local-boot
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| 18:11 | <ltsp> local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> You can put that to the usb stick
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| 18:13 | <THS_> Can the users use a fat client easy at home?
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| 18:14 | <alkisg> Sure, you only need a simple lts.conf for autologin and a script to create a temp user
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| 18:14 | <THS_> without an internet connection?
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| 18:15 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 18:17 | <THS_> I will look into that. Did you read the abstract are the goals exactly the same? I'm not really familiar with LTSP
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> No they are not the same
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| 18:19 | LTSP is a flexible solution that you can use as the framework for many other solutions
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| 18:20 | ...usually, you just add a couple of scripts and you're done
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| 18:21 | <THS_> Ok. But is this framework the right tool for the job? The main part is that the user has always a fully working OS with his/her data on it.
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> So a persistent live usb stick, with nothing centralized in any case?
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| 18:23 | No need for os updates when it connects to school, no centralized user accounts that are then cached locally etc?
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| 18:25 | <THS_> Yes. Os updates only security patches via unattend-uprgade and the school updates the sticks normaly every 6 months. There are no centralized user accounts. There are all local on the USB-Stick with the Debian persistence system.
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> OK
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| 18:32 | Btw, how do you tell the epoptes clients in which server to connect?
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| 18:33 | E.g. I imagine 10 students in class A needing to connect to teacher A, and another 10 students in class B needing to connect to teacher B.
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| 18:33 | <THS_> User shows is IP and the other users connect via a simple gui.
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> All all this is via LAN? Or are you also using wifi?
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| 18:35 | *And
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| 18:36 | <THS_> Both and we want to use epoptes. I don't know if it is in production
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> epoptes in production? well, we don't have a company behind it, but thousands of schools are using it
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| 18:37 | <THS_> i mean on my side
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| 18:39 | Does epoptes work well over wifi?
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> epoptes works fine even over adsl
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| 18:40 | VNC though doesn't
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| 18:40 | So don't expect to be able to broadcast your screen over wifi
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| 18:41 | You'll probably be able to "broadcast" to a couple of students, or assist one student, but no more than that
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| 18:41 | ...at least until wifi bandwidth increases to some gbps
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| 18:42 | <THS_> I don't expect that because many of the comercial solutions have also problems with that and I know the limmitations of wifi.
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| 18:50 | Back to the main problem I just have to disable autostart because the IP is given in the GUI and the check in line 79 if the client runs on the server, right?
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> You can use a special name in /etc/hosts
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| 18:50 | E.g. "epoptes-server"
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| 18:51 | And then replace the /etc/hosts entry from your GUI
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| 18:51 | So then both the system and the session epoptes-client will connect to "epoptes-server" with the new ip
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| 18:51 | <THS_> but then I also have to restart epoptes-client
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 18:52 | The socat try times out after 60 secs, and a new DNS request will be made then
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| 18:52 | <THS_> Ok thats nice thanks for the info.
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 19:45 | <THS_> What is the reason if I cannot add an alias to an Client?
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| 19:52 | the button to edit is greyedout
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