IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 January 2020 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:05 | <linux_user> alkisg: I am here
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| 07:05 | I have installed all the packages
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| 07:06 | can I do a test (without the GUI) of the installation so far with a second VM booting via PXE?
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| 07:07 | this failed:
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| 07:07 | root@LTSP:/home/stuart# ltsp dnsmasq
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| 07:07 | Failed to get global data: Unit dbus-org.freedesktop.resolve1.service not found.
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| 07:07 | LTSP command failed: systemd-resolve --status
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| 07:07 | Installed /usr/share/ltsp/server/dnsmasq/ltsp-dnsmasq.conf in /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-dnsmasq.conf
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| 07:07 | Restarted dnsmasq
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> (will be back in 10 mins; supporting schools atm..)
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| 07:09 | <linux_user> ok
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| 07:09 | I understand!
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| 07:09 | time for a snack anyway!
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> !printer
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| 07:10 | <ltspbot> printer: Quick how-to: RCFILE_01="/usr/sbin/jetpipe /dev/usb/lp0 9100 &" in lts.conf, reboot client, then go to server's add printer dialog, and specify network printer → jetdirect → ltsp123.local
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> linux_user: that warning shouldn't matter, it's a problem with debian dependencies in non-gui installations
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| 07:17 | They have systemd-resolve but they don't use it or something like that, if I remember correctly
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| 07:17 | You may proceeed with the rest
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| 07:17 | <linux_user> ok
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| 07:17 | cool
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| 07:18 | do I skip managing a client image?
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> linux_user: run `ltsp image /` once, as a test, to see if your clients will be able to netboot into debian without gui
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| 07:26 | Once you have that, you move to netbooting isos
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| 08:02 | vagrantc: now that Fotis isn't around to complain :P, I'm pondering whether to bump the epoptes version to 20.01, to match ltsp, sch-scripts etc
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| 08:02 | If you're even a slightest bit in favor of this, I'm doing it :)
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| 08:03 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i like dateversions :)
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| 08:03 | <alkisg> Yey!
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| 08:03 | OK I'll push epoptes today or tomorrow, and I'll leave ltsp for a bit later as I'm working on rpi support
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| 08:03 | If we can have them both in unstable or testing until the end of the month, it'll be great
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| 08:04 | <vagrantc> by the end of the month?
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> I mean the upload, not the migration
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| 08:04 | <linux_user> alkisg: Well, do I need to start over? as I did ltsp ipxe and ltsp initrd
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think debian import freeze is mid february, so there'll be enough time for migration
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| 08:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: should be doable if i can get to it this week, which i should
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| 08:04 | <alkisg> linux_user: nah, just rerun ltsp ipxe after ltsp image /
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| 08:04 | vagrantc: great :)
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| 08:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the new stuff is a lot easier to test :)
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> True; I no longer fear when they'll tell me "this doesn't work in mint or kubuntu"
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| 08:05 | I just use an .iso as the image
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| 08:07 | <linux_user> do I rerun the initrd also?
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> linux_user: no
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| 08:09 | <linux_user> ok
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| 08:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: heh.
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| 09:59 | <markit> Hi alkisg :) Still experimenting with Kubuntu 20.04 -64 that I want to use in a local school as an "upgrade" from 14.04 - 32 bit. I've seen that for each login 2 .fusehidden* files, 128K, are created and never deleted
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> markit: where?
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| 10:00 | <markit> in the home
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> (hello :))
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| 10:00 | What are the exact names?
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| 10:00 | <markit> something along with /home/ltsp101/.fuse_hidden0000009500000003
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| 10:01 | # lsof /home/ltsp101/.fuse_hidden0000009500000003
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| 10:01 | sftp-serv 1225 ltsp101 35u REG 8,1 131072 655529 /home/ltsp101/.fuse_hidden0000009500000003
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> https://askubuntu.com/questions/493198/what-is-a-fuse-hidden-file-and-why-do-they-exist
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| 10:01 | This says they're deleted when the process stops using them
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| 10:01 | Do you still have them after the process finished?
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| 10:02 | <markit> if I choose to logout (K menu -> poweroff) they are still there
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| 10:02 | <alkisg> But is the process finished ?
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| 10:02 | Because you might logout and still have processes running
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| 10:02 | <markit> the client is turned off...
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> Can I see?
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| 10:03 | !vnc-edide
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| 10:03 | <ltspbot> vnc-edide: To share your screen with me, open Epoptes → Help menu → Remote support → Host: srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr, and click the Connect button
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| 10:03 | <markit> mmmm I should check the server side, but if I shutdown the server, the files still exist... well, let's try
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| 10:03 | ok
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| 10:03 | it's a VM
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> OK
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| 10:05 | <markit> the first 2 are from a previous session
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> kwin_x11 1419 ltsp101 DEL REG 0,56 123 .fuse_hidden0000007b00000003
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| 10:05 | plasmashe 1431 ltsp101 DEL REG 0,56 138 .fuse_hidden0000008a00000004
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| 10:10 | <markit> so seems that if you K -> logout, fuse are deleted, if I K -> poweroff they are not?
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| 10:11 | (it's a test VM, user ltsp101, pwd the same)
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| 10:15 | <alkisg> markit: sshfs automatically deletes them when they're no longer in use, but it appears that after logout, kde uses them for several seconds at least,
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| 10:15 | so, if you poweroff, sshfs doesn't have a chance to delete them in time
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| 10:17 | <markit> I see... so I need a script to delete the old one before the new one are created, if possibile?
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| 10:17 | <alkisg> markit: I guess you can delete them on login
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| 10:18 | <markit> or could be also at logout, I think rm .fuse* will fail if they are still in use
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| 10:18 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 10:18 | <markit> I don't care have 2-4 of them in each home, but don't want a ton of them after 300 user have logghed in/out for an year :()
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> A cron job on the server could probably work too
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| 10:20 | <markit> if I want to use ltsp.conf instead, which could be the "best place"?
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| 10:21 | <alkisg> ltsp.conf currently doesn't have hooks for login or logout
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| 10:21 | You need a session script for that
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| 10:22 | <markit> ok, I'll use crontab until a better solution is found :) Thanks a lot
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| 10:24 | <alkisg> np
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| 10:26 | <markit> btw, I'm a bit confused... I've changed something in /etc on the server, to have clients access these modifications, is enough an 'ltsp initrd' ?
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> No, you need `ltsp image /`. But /etc/ltsp is a special case, as that one goes via ltsp.img, so it doesn't need `ltsp image /`.
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| 10:28 | So if you change things in /etc/ltsp, then you only need: ltsp initrd
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| 10:29 | <markit> thanks :) A little "bug" or I'm missing a package, if I issue "ltsp" the writing is
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| 10:29 | [...] To get help with applets and their options, run `man ltsp applet` or `ltsp --help applet`.
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| 10:29 | but if I type
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> applet means any ltsp command
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| 10:30 | So you'd do: man ltsp dnsmasq
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| 10:30 | <markit> AH, my bad! I feel soooo dumb sometime
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> applet isn't the best name...but I didn't like "subcommands" either...
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| 10:31 | (busybox also uses the "applets" word)
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| 10:55 | <markit> let's recap... if I want a file in the DIRECTORY /etc/xdg of the client, I have to create under /etc/ltsp/xdg directory?
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| 11:11 | mmm seems not (I've issued ltsp initrd but in the client /etc I've not the new files)
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| 11:25 | <douglas_br> hello!
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| 11:27 | Mini PC athlon 200GE with 4 GB Ram DDR4 is it good to be LTSP client?
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| 11:30 | <markit> ok, about my question, let's try "POST_INIT" stuff
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| 11:32 | douglas_br: gbit ethernet? Sounds good, PassMark index for that CPU is 4957, better than my current desktop :)
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| 11:33 | <douglas_br> markit yes, it has gigabit
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| 11:34 | (y)
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| 11:38 | <themeoizr> douglas_br: 4gb would work, though my preference is 8
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| 11:39 | there's no network swapping, so 4gb is pushing it
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| 11:48 | <markit> themeoizr: urgh...not good, I've clients with 3GB that I have to migrate to the new ltsp
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| 12:11 | alkisg: in ltsp.conf, under [clients], I've something like: POST_INIT_KDECONF_01="cp -a /etc/ltsp/xdg/* /etc/xdg"
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| 12:12 | (yes, I did a ltsp initrd and rebooted the client)
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| 12:13 | <alkisg> (12:55:06 PM) markit: let's recap... if I want a file in the DIRECTORY /etc/xdg of the client, I have to create under /etc/ltsp/xdg directory?
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| 12:13 | ==> one way is to create /etc/ltsp/file and then have POST_INIT_BLAH="ln -s /etc/ltsp/file /etc/xdg/file"
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| 12:14 | douglas_br: yeah sounds fine
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| 12:14 | <markit> alkisg: no cp ? I want to override if a file already exists (due to image creation)
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| 12:15 | <alkisg> themeoizr: oh it's very easy to enable network swapping. The very difficult part is to make swapping work nice in Linux; this won't happen in the next 10 years; kernel developers are preparing early OOM daemons though which might help
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| 12:15 | markit: ln -sf overwrites
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| 12:15 | ln saves a bit of ram, compared to cp
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| 12:16 | <markit> alkisg: maybe you missed my second question of 13:11, cp did not worked and I'm wondering why
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> markit: run that command from epoptes and see if it works
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| 12:17 | (true, I missed that question)
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| 12:18 | <markit> local root you mean?
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 12:20 | <markit> my bad, I mistyped a name :(
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| 12:22 | <themeoizr> markit: youll be fine if you dont have 30 browser tabs
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| 12:22 | alkisg: what are the actual problems with network swapping atm?
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| 13:36 | themeoizr is now known as ENOKITTIES | |
| 13:57 | <alkisg> ENOKITTIES: the main drawback is that if one client really needs swapping, it'll take all of the network bandwidth and much of the server CPU, making the rest of the client unresponsive
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| 13:57 | It was the same in LTSP5 as well, it's not a new problem
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| 13:58 | <ENOKITTIES> no way to QoS it down?
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> The secondary problem is that even if a client has local swap etc, i.e. it's not even an LTSP client, and really needs swapping... again, it'll just pretty much hang
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| 13:58 | I.e. swap is not really useful in Linux in general atm
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| 13:58 | <ENOKITTIES> so realistically the trajectory is RAM upgrades?
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> So there's no point in trying to solve the first problem, as the second problem means that swap is not useful anyway
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| 13:59 | The kernel developers, google, facebook etc, are preparing "early OOM", which means that they'll e.g. kill the browser earlier
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| 13:59 | At *that* point, swap will be useful, so we'll be able to use network swap as well, without having to solve the first problem
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| 14:00 | For now yeah, if someone needs swap (which means the computer hangs due to lack of memory), yeah, he should buy RAM
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| 14:04 | <ENOKITTIES> i've observed that on about half of my stations
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| 14:04 | and upgrading 4 to 8gb solved it
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| 14:04 | but there's a specific profile to this: they tend to have multiple browser tabs open due to how their crm is constructed
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> Were you using NBD_SWAP? This has additional problems, that's why I completely avoided it in the new LTSP
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| 14:04 | <ENOKITTIES> I never used the old ltsp
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> OK
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| 14:05 | You could also test this, if you want to: put a local disk or even a usb stick, formatted as linux-swap, which will be automatically used,
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| 14:05 | and see if that local linux-swap along with 4 GB RAM solves the issues
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| 14:05 | In my tests, that *didn't* work; the crashes persisted
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| 14:10 | <ENOKITTIES> actually my environment would be crap for this because some of the crashes are caused by extremely crappy ethernet wall sockets
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| 14:11 | (the idiot contractor ripped them out during renovation and then put them back in half assedly)
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| 14:11 | <alkisg> Ouch, that needs network quality checking devices
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| 14:16 | <ENOKITTIES> no, contractor stabbing devices
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> :D
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| 15:00 | <markit> ENOKITTIES: just yesterday I read an article about how much better is firefox compared to chrome if you have multiple tabs, regarding resources
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| 15:03 | <linux_user> alkisg: everything seems to have finished
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| 15:03 | what steps might I wish to take to test it?
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| 16:57 | <douglas_br> hello! when client side enter in protect screen if try comeback it does not accept client password. How to fix it?
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> douglas_br: at that point, do you see the client in epoptes, or is it hanged?
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| 17:10 | linux_user: you'd just pxe boot a client, see the ltsp.org section about netbooting clients
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| 17:11 | <douglas_br> alkisg I am sorry, its ok
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> np
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| 17:39 | <linux_user> ok
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| 17:47 | alkisg: it did not work
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| 17:48 | alkisg: vmware fusion said: PXE-E55: ProxyDHCP service did not reply to request on port 4011
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| 17:48 | PXE-M0F: Exiting Intel PXE ROM.
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| 17:48 | Operating System not Found
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> If you're using VMs, make sure that you use bridged networking and that the VM has full access to ports, even restricted ones
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| 17:49 | Or set up internal networking and use a virtual client
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| 19:01 | <linux_user> alkisg: I used bridged network but I will check and be sure its all correct.
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| 19:01 | The client VM did DHCP an IP address it just did not get any PXE responses I think
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| 19:01 | brb
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| 19:01 | yeah its all setup for bridged network properly since I see it got a DHCP address from the real network 192.168.70.x
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| 19:04 | <alkisg> linux_user: in the VM, did you run `ltsp dnsmasq`?
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| 19:05 | <linux_user> I think so, let me check
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| 19:05 | <alkisg> Also, run `journalctl -fu dnsmasq` and see if it receives the client DHCP request
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| 19:05 | <linux_user> ok
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| 19:05 | 1 sec
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| 19:05 | <alkisg> And of course, the VM must have an 192.168.70.x IP then
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| 19:08 | <linux_user> The VM with LTSP has a 192.168.70.x address, my router runs Gargoyle (which uses dnsmasq also), the VM (client0 got a 192.168.70.x address
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| 19:08 | -- Logs begin at Sun 2020-01-12 22:52:53 PST. --
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| 19:08 | Jan 13 11:05:34 LTSP dnsmasq[10798]: started, version 2.80 DNS disabled
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| 19:08 | Jan 13 11:05:34 LTSP dnsmasq[10798]: compile time options: IPv6 GNU-getopt DBus i18n IDN DHCP DHCPv6 no-Lua TFTP conntrack ipset auth DNSSEC loop-detect inotify dumpfile
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| 19:08 | Jan 13 11:05:34 LTSP dnsmasq-dhcp[10798]: DHCP, proxy on subnet 192.168.70.0
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| 19:08 | Jan 13 11:05:34 LTSP dnsmasq-dhcp[10798]: DHCP, IP range 192.168.67.20 -- 192.168.67.250, lease time 12h
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| 19:08 | Jan 13 11:05:34 LTSP dnsmasq-tftp[10798]: TFTP root is /srv/tftp
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| 19:08 | Jan 13 11:05:34 LTSP systemd[1]: Started dnsmasq - A lightweight DHCP and caching DNS server.
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| 19:08 | Jan 13 11:05:50 LTSP dnsmasq-dhcp[10798]: PXE(ens33) 00:0c:29:b9:55:9b proxy
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| 19:09 | Jan 13 11:05:52 LTSP dnsmasq-dhcp[10798]: PXE(ens33) 00:0c:29:b9:55:9b proxy
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| 19:09 | Jan 13 11:05:56 LTSP dnsmasq-dhcp[10798]: PXE(ens33) 00:0c:29:b9:55:9b proxy
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| 19:09 | Jan 13 11:06:04 LTSP dnsmasq-dhcp[10798]: PXE(ens33) 00:0c:29:b9:55:9b proxy
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| 19:09 | that is from the journalctl -fu output
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| 19:09 | not sure what the 192.168.67 nonsense is about though, I have no such range on my network at all
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> !paste
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| 19:09 | <ltspbot> paste: To avoid channel flooding, please upload text longer than 3 lines to http://paste.debian.net. Don't forget to paste the resulting URL here.
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> OK so the server receives the request and replies
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| 19:10 | Can you test the client with a recent ipxe.iso?
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| 19:10 | E.g. boot.ipxe.org/ipxe.iso
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| 19:10 | <linux_user> sure
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| 19:10 | 1 sec
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| 19:10 | <alkisg> 192.168.67.x is the special ltsp subnet, ignore it, you don't use it
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