IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 August 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:35 | ltspbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:36 | <cyberorg> hmm, difficult to say, children may find it easier as it runs only one app at a time
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| 00:37 | they call them activities, it is quite different approach than normal desktop
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| 00:37 | they have tons of things in their activity repo, and a package manager xo-get to get what you want
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| 00:38 | <Nubae> yeah ive been working with olenepal and using the xo quite a bit myself
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| 00:38 | but never seen it in use in the classroom
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| 00:38 | i just dont know if it is mature/polished enough as an os even for kids
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| 00:39 | as oppposed to telling the teachers to run gcompris or childsplay
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| 00:39 | or the the tux for kids suite
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| 00:39 | <cyberorg> with ltsp it becomes easier to select another session if the children get bored with sugar :)
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| 00:40 | sugar has a great feature of shared activities
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| 00:40 | <Nubae> now thats a good point... :-) let em choose
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| 00:41 | and the shared activities works well even through ltsp without ejabberd?
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| 00:43 | <cyberorg> Nubae, now that needs testing, i have just been able to get everything together and running
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| 00:43 | sugar has something called presence service, i assume it is the service it uses for shared activities
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| 00:44 | i've just started to discover sugar :)
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| 00:45 | you are based in nepal?
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| 00:45 | <Nubae> I was
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| 00:46 | I got shipped out cause I needed first world medication help (at least thats the excuse)
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| 00:46 | anyway, I was working on the XS server quite a lot
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| 00:46 | so I do know how sugar works in and out
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| 00:47 | the xos either work collaboratively through mesh networking... ie... connecting directly to each other
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| 00:47 | or via a XS server (at the moment just 7 or 8 packages)
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| 00:47 | <cyberorg> i havent looked at XS server bits at all
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| 00:48 | <Nubae> the most important thing here is ejabberd, which controls all collaborative bits in bigger setups
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| 00:48 | 30+ clients
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| 00:48 | my interest also lies in tying sugar into ltsp
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| 00:48 | I think it makes sense
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| 00:48 | anyway... there is a command in sugar.... sugar-control-panel -s jabber ejabberdserver
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| 00:49 | <cyberorg> all the testing i did on sugar was using ltsp :)
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| 00:49 | <Nubae> this should make sugar use the jabber server and allow for large setups to run through ejabberd
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| 00:49 | which is wonderful for sharing since its designed in erlong
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| 00:49 | which seems to thread perfectly
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| 00:50 | but... like I said, Ive been in the lab, and never seen it in use....
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| 00:50 | <cyberorg> so we would just need ejabberdserver installed on the server?
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| 00:50 | <Nubae> so my curiosity lies in... is it all worth it?
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| 00:50 | right... ejabberd is quite easy to install and manage on ubuntu
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| 00:51 | and probably suse too
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| 00:51 | <cyberorg> it is not so much work now, sugar is just 1-click install away, so definitely worth trying
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| 00:51 | <Nubae> well, from the server side, I really know it inside out, so if you need help with collaborative stuff on sugar, just ask
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| 00:52 | ignore presence service, it was meant for mesh networks, which are now not even gonna work in regular ltsp setups
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| 00:52 | they must go through aps which then use ejabberd to do all collaboration
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| 00:52 | and that has been tested to scale well past 200+ laptops
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| 00:53 | and thats wireless... I bet wired it will scale far further
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| 00:53 | <cyberorg> Nubae, how would it all work as everything in ltsp is running directly on the server
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| 00:53 | <Nubae> ah ltsp up there was supposed to be olpc
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| 00:54 | point... I guess it just needs one ejabberd connection then and the rest should be automated
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| 00:54 | so u're working with ltsp only sugar
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| 00:54 | no xos or laptops?
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| 00:55 | <cyberorg> ltsp only, dont have any hardware
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| 00:55 | ltsp or stand alone desktops
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| 00:55 | <Nubae> well, the standalone desktops will need to be told to run through ejabberd
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| 00:56 | but ltsp probably already does that automatically
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| 00:56 | I'd love to hear scaling stories
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| 00:56 | <cyberorg> nope, we just call /usr/bin/sugar-shell
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| 00:57 | <Nubae> as a possible desktop session?
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| 00:57 | <cyberorg> does that use ejabberd automatically if available?
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| 00:57 | yes
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| 00:57 | <Nubae> it should, yes
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| 00:57 | in the xos we were testing, I had to set them statically using sugar-control-panel
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| 00:57 | <cyberorg> at ldm sugar-shell is available along with other sessions
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| 00:58 | <Nubae> but in theory, the minute a user logs into sugar, it looks for ejaberdserver and uses it
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| 00:58 | do u have ejabberd installed?
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| 00:58 | <cyberorg> any links on how to go about setting up ejabberd?
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| 00:58 | for sugar that is
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| 00:59 | <Nubae> its a bitch, I spent weeks with it... but yes... theres a wiki, kinda ;-)
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| 01:00 | <cyberorg> is jabberd: Jabber Open Source Server same as ejabberd?
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| 01:00 | <Nubae> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ejabberd_Configuration
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| 01:00 | must be ejabberd
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| 01:00 | e - erlang
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| 01:01 | <cyberorg> ah, we dont have that on suse, will have to package that too ..
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| 01:01 | <Nubae> otherwise it doesnt do all the fancy stuff... but its native on fedora so it should be easy enough to port to suse
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| 01:02 | in any case, that wiki tells u where to wget it from and then rpm install
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| 01:02 | should work on suse
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| 01:02 | right?
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| 01:02 | <cyberorg> yes, it should be easy enough :)
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| 01:03 | <Nubae> oh, youll need erlang too
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| 01:04 | <cyberorg> great, that we have available on oBS
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| 01:09 | <johnny> no.. jabberd is jabberd
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| 01:11 | * cyberorg add one more thing to TODO list | |
| 01:15 | <cyberorg> johnny, it is not ejabbered either, it is ejabberd with olpc patches :)
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| 01:17 | <johnny> hmm.. maybe they should come to ejabberd?
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| 01:17 | <Nubae> heh... like I said... its a bitch
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| 01:17 | <cyberorg> there they are http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Installing_ejabberd
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| 01:18 | may be they should get that upstream and people can then use ./configure --with-olpc to use them
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| 01:18 | <Nubae> collabora has been working pretty closely with olpc on this, so basically, when u hear XS server
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| 01:18 | thats what it is
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| 01:18 | ejabberd with a couple patches and some auto dns stuff
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| 01:18 | sad sad
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| 01:58 | <johnny> hmm.. where does ckbcomp come from..
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| 02:02 | <johnny> console-setup i guess..
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| 02:11 | <jimjimovich> i was wondering if someone could give me some tips for adding users via command line and still keeping the default settings that are present in the GUI user admin app. When I add users via adduser, they don't have permissions for FUSE, for example.
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| 02:11 | or is there a way to enable the use of the users-admin gui when not logged in directly on the server?
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| 02:13 | <johnny> at that point you would run adduser jimjimovich
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| 02:13 | <johnny> you still might have to set the groups manually
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| 02:13 | i don't know, never used it
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| 02:15 | <jimjimovich> it's just that our actual server is very inconveniently located. will have to find a way to administer remotely
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| 02:23 | <johnny> jimjimovich, .. ssh is good
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| 02:24 | that's all i use
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| 02:24 | i'm pretty unfamiliar with the gui tools for the most part
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| 03:08 | <ogra> ssh -X user@server sudo users-admin
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| 03:08 | ;)
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| 03:09 | <johnny> or that ogra.. :)
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| 03:09 | lol
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| 03:49 | <yanu> hmm, on debian sid, 'ltsp-build-client --dist etch' , client starts good, but Xorg.6.log shows: no devices detected
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| 03:49 | any hints?
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| 03:51 | <ogra> is there any reason you use the extremely ancient etch ?
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| 03:51 | * ogra doubts anyone every tested that | |
| 03:51 | <ogra> *ever
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| 03:51 | <yanu> sid didn't work
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| 03:51 | <ogra> use lenny
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| 03:52 | <yanu> ok, i'll have a try
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| 03:52 | <ogra> or wait for vagrantc to show up to help debugging
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| 03:52 | (he is on pacific time, might take several hours)
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| 03:52 | <yanu> i'll wont delete the ltsp-dir
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| 04:08 | ok, i have the ldm-login-screen, but can't login
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| 04:16 | ogra: thx for the 'lenny'-hint, all works well now
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| 04:16 | <ogra> great
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| 04:16 | * ogra has to rush out | |
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| 05:02 | <pdjbarber> how do i include a package in kiwi-ltsp? i need to include ifplugd (i think)
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| 05:08 | <johnny> why?
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| 05:09 | <cyberorg> pdjbarber, it is already included
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| 05:09 | <johnny> hmm.. anybody think of a reason why tftp prefix wouldnt be set on these clients?
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| 05:09 | i just tested with another dell laptop
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| 05:09 | both say broadcom
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| 05:11 | <cyberorg> pdjbarber, we opened shop in #kiwi-ltsp so we can keep this channel free for ltsp talk :)
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| 05:12 | <pdjbarber> cyberorg: after last night i rebuilt images, and tested on a higher spec device...booted to network interface and failed ifplugd...so client didn't get an IP address, which then leads to NBD issues i think
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| 05:12 | ok cheers cyberorg
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| 08:03 | <Guaraldo> Hi, jammcq...
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| 08:09 | <jammcq> Guaraldo: hey
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| 08:09 | bom dia
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| 08:35 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: Good morning, jammcq...
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| 09:20 | <_UsUrPeR_> q-funk: hey. I got that message from you after we were talking about your thincan
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| 09:20 | q-funk: I work for etyack. You sent him a thincan for testing.
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| 09:20 | <Q-FUNK> ah, ok
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| 09:20 | that explains it :)
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| 09:21 | <_UsUrPeR_> q-funk: it's a great machine, btw. Even if it doesn't have a power button ;)
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| 09:21 | q-funk: have you considered making a POE version?
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| 09:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> What's the option to shut off ssh encryption in the lts.conf?
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| 09:35 | Subhodip has quit IRC | |
| 09:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> nm, found it :D
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| 09:40 | <Q-FUNK> _UsUrPeR_: POE is a bit tricky, in that it is not a fully standardized spec.
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| 09:40 | it is mostly standard for 10/100mb ethernet, but not for faster
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| 09:41 | <Q-FUNK> and right now, our whole product line is going towards Gigabit
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| 09:42 | <_UsUrPeR_> q-funk: yeah, higher data transfer rates does seem like the best way to go.
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| 09:42 | q-funk: but I also know how much you like to deprive the user of moving components ;)
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| 09:42 | * _UsUrPeR_ must push a switch every 5 seconds, or he gets depressed | |
| 09:43 | <Q-FUNK> :-P
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| 09:48 | * _UsUrPeR_ pushes a button. | |
| 09:48 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahhhh.....
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| 09:52 | <dberkholz> is there a way to run bzr log while only showing commits from a certain author?
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| 10:08 | <dberkholz> johnny2: fyi, i'm reviewing now
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| 10:24 | <bjohnson> can anyone point me to how to set up ltsp 5 off a centos 5.2 server?
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| 10:24 | I found a k12ltsp dvd iso but the darn thing is too big to burn to a DVD
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| 10:24 | so installed centos 5.2 from a standard centos install dvd
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| 10:29 | <muh2000> hi
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| 10:29 | <dmaran> bjohnson - https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/RHEL5Server.
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| 10:31 | <muh2000> i use pulseaudio and sound on the server does not work :(
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| 10:31 | <muh2000> PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Connection refused
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| 10:33 | <bjohnson> dmaran: thanks
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| 10:33 | when it says local storage does not work, does that mean usb sticks don't work?
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| 10:34 | <warren> bjohnson: actually it might work with fusermount setuid or fuse group
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| 10:34 | <bjohnson> that's not a big deal to us, and no sound is not an issue, but I'd like to know
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| 10:34 | warren: thatnks .. I'll check into that when I get that far (likely not until late next week)
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| 10:51 | * dberkholz swears at launchpad | |
| 10:52 | <ogra> dberkholz, you should swear at #launchpad then :) so people can fix it ;)
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| 10:52 | <dberkholz> ogra: oh, it's just being retarded. hopefully i can fix it in a couple min.
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| 10:53 | <ogra> but generally the guys there are happy to fix stuff or hear about annoyances
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| 10:53 | <dberkholz> apparently it doesn't like when your connection drops in the middle of a push
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| 10:54 | <ogra> well, that would rather be a bzr prob i guess
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| 10:54 | <dberkholz> johnny2: get signed up for launchpad please
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| 10:54 | <ogra> he is
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| 10:54 | <dberkholz> searching didn't find him..
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| 10:55 | <ogra> i know he is active on plenty ubunu bugs ...
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| 10:55 | * ogra look sat sabayon | |
| 10:55 | <dberkholz> maybe his real name isn't on there or something
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| 10:55 | <ogra> https://launchpad.net/~johnny-localmomentum
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| 10:56 | heh, Karma: 9 ....
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| 10:56 | i take back the "active" :)
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| 10:56 | <dberkholz> ok, he's now a committer
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| 10:57 | <ogra> good
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| 10:57 | <dberkholz> ogra: btw, could you fix your bzr whoami so that your name on launchpad links somewhere?
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| 10:57 | <ogra> yeah, sorry for that
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| 10:58 | https://launchpad.net/~ogra though ... not to hard to find :)
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| 10:58 | <dberkholz> johnny2: you can now push to ltsp-upstream. i just merged in all of the existing work
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| 10:58 | <ogra> yay
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| 11:13 | <gbolte> quiet in here this morning
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| 11:30 | <gbolte> anyone know why a client would just stop talking to the server
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| 11:30 | we have had this happen several times
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| 11:31 | but I cant figure out why it seems that the client will just loose connectivity and freeze
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| 11:31 | <ogra> managed switch ?
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| 11:31 | <gbolte> yeah
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| 11:31 | <ogra> well, check that :)
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| 11:31 | <gbolte> what am I looking for
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| 11:31 | lol
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| 11:32 | they are all in the right vlan
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| 11:32 | <ogra> msconfiguration of the switch indeed :)
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| 11:32 | <gbolte> they would not boot if they wern't
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| 11:33 | <gbolte> I was thinking possibly too many checksum errors on packets might cause it
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| 11:33 | like if the wiring just sucks for a few terminals
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| 11:33 | but I dont know how to see those errors
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| 11:33 | I know how to do it in windows
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| 11:34 | <ogra> use wireshark
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| 11:34 | <alkisg> Hello, I need to change ltsp-client-setup to put a custom /etc/hosts file in the ltsp clients. Which one is the one getting executed? /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup or /etc/rcS.d/S32ltsp-client-setup ?
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| 11:36 | <ogra> alkisg, ?? if you put an /etc/hosts.ltsp inot the chroot that gets merged automatically ... no need to hack anything
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> ogra, with an .ltsp extension? Thanks!
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| 11:37 | <ogra> grep hosts /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
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| 11:37 | ;)
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| 11:37 | <alkisg> ogra, could you please tell me if it is possible (not how it is done) for ltsp clients to use a local swap **file**? Or does it have to be a partition?
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| 11:37 | <ogra> shoudl have told you
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| 11:38 | well, you need a mounted HDD for that
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| 11:38 | <alkisg> I'm writing a tutorial for fellow teachers on how to install ltsp, and it'll make a difference on how many partitions I suggest them...
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| 11:38 | <ogra> which we dont have in any way supported beyond localdev (which makes it remotely accessible)
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| 11:39 | <alkisg> Yes, usually the clients do have a (slow - about 10Gb) hard disk
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| 11:39 | <ogra> which are not accessible with the current implementation
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| 11:39 | hardy only supports removable tagged disks
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| 11:40 | intrepid might be different ... still in development
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> ogra, sorry, you mean that USE_LOCAL_SWAP=YES in lts.conf doesn't do anything?
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| 11:40 | <ogra> it uses swap partitions
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> ah,, ok
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| 11:40 | So no big deal, I'll just tell them to create a swap partition, thanks
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| 11:40 | <ogra> swap files need to be on a disk with filesystem ... and be mounted
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| 11:40 | right
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| 11:41 | <alkisg> ogra, thanks a lot.
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| 11:41 | <ogra> :)
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| 11:45 | <gbolte> so ogra is there a filter in wireshark that I can tell it to only show me checksum errors
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| 11:46 | <ogra> google ? ...
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| 11:46 | there surely is
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| 11:46 | <gbolte> :)
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| 11:46 | alright
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| 11:46 | <ogra> but wireshark is rather advances
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| 11:46 | *advanced ...
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| 11:46 | i dont know such stuff off the top of my head
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| 11:46 | <gbolte> wasnt sure if you had something off the top of your head when you suggested it
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| 11:47 | <gbolte> oh wait
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| 11:47 | nevermind
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| 11:48 | all the ones that are red have bad checksums
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| 11:48 | :/
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| 11:48 | this is not good
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| 11:48 | there are a lot of them
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| 11:48 | <ogra> bad cable, card or misconfigured switch
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> gbolte, I don't know the whole deal here, but wireshark gave me a lot of checksum errors on a card that did software check-summing, so no actual errors... This is documented somewhere (in man page? I don't remember), have you seen it?
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| 11:50 | <gbolte> alkisg, I saw something somewhere saying there was a bug in wireshark at somepoint
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| 11:51 | that basically falsely reported bad checksums
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| 11:51 | not sure what version
| |
| 11:51 | <alkisg> No, not a bug, it was by design (it wasn't possible to insert correct checksums)
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| 11:51 | <gbolte> hmm
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| 11:52 | <alkisg> http://www.wireshark.org/faq.html#q11.1
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| 11:52 | This is the one I'm talking about
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| 11:53 | (it's the other way around after all, hardware checksums are the problem)
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| 11:55 | <gbolte> oooh
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| 11:55 | ok
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| 11:56 | <alkisg> So I don't know what you're looking for, but maybe the checksums are irrelevant...
| |
| 11:56 | <dmaran> We are seeing some odd behavior again with diskless clients with floppy drives not booting after a poweroutage. Ubx64 LTS LTSP5. It is not just one of these boxes either it is all of them. I had to disable the floppy drives this am in order for them to boot and login correctly as the login would "freeze" with a black background and a cursor but nothing else, no virt terms either.
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| 11:57 | <gbolte> alkisg, well we have a few clients that randomly stop talking to the server
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| 11:58 | so I thought maybe bad packets could be causing it
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| 11:58 | like a poor cable run maybe
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> gbolte, maybe you should filter based on client ip, not checksums...
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| 11:59 | <gbolte> well after looking at it all the ones with bad checksum are comming from the server running wireshark
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| 11:59 | so...
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| 11:59 | they dont really matter
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| 12:00 | <alkisg> Yeah, it's the same with my card...
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| 12:03 | <gbolte> alkisg, what about out of order segments
| |
| 12:03 | got a few of them too
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> gbolte, I'm no wireshark expert, just used it a little to debug ipconfig... If they're TCP I think they'll get assembled correctly though.
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| 12:04 | <gbolte> k
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| 12:04 | :/
| |
| 12:04 | hmm
| |
| 12:04 | well I dont know then it looks like things all check out
| |
| 12:05 | <alkisg> Have you tried more "manual" things, like changing the cable or switch port?
| |
| 12:05 | <gbolte> yeah
| |
| 12:05 | we have done both
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| 12:05 | <alkisg> and all PCs have same NICs?
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| 12:05 | <gbolte> I am sorta dreading the possibility that the wire in the wall may be bad
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| 12:05 | :/
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| 12:06 | they are all the same onboard chipset
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> Well, there are appliances to check cable quality...
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| 12:06 | <gbolte> yeah we need to just get a fluke meter
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| 12:06 | but they are kinda spendy
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| 12:06 | :/
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> Or just call a technician that has one... :)
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| 12:07 | <gbolte> true
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| 12:07 | brb
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| 12:07 | <alkisg> ok, bye
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| 12:09 | <gbolte> bacl
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| 12:09 | er
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| 12:09 | back
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| 12:10 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:15 | <randra> i have configured ltsp4.2, and i`m migration to other machine
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| 12:15 | with too ltsp 4.2
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| 12:15 | but in other machine, showing unable to load file, file not found
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| 12:16 | i have all services configured, and the vmlinuz in /tftpboot/lts/vmlinuz-*
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| 12:17 | anyone can help-me a bit?
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| 12:18 | japerry has quit IRC | |
| 12:26 | <randra> i dont need this anymore, fixed =)
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| 12:28 | <cyberorg> randra, see? silence cures all issues :)
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| 12:28 | muh2000 has quit IRC | |
| 12:32 | <gbolte> lol
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| 12:32 | good 1 cyberorg
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| 12:32 | <cyberorg> hi gbolte :)
| |
| 12:33 | <gbolte> hi
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| 12:33 | how are you
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| 12:34 | <cyberorg> always good, i see you are battling network
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| 12:36 | <randra> cyberorg hehe nice
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| 12:38 | fie_wrk has quit IRC | |
| 12:41 | <gbolte> cyberorg, yeah something odd is going on/has been going on and now its just become really annoying
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| 12:41 | peoples workstations will randomly freeze
| |
| 12:41 | and the only way to get them back is a restart
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| 12:42 | thankfully we just have to reboot their client and not the server
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| 12:43 | <randra> any know one good manager to ltsp clients?
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| 12:43 | <gbolte> manager?
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| 12:43 | what do you mean
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| 12:44 | fie_wr0k has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:44 | <cyberorg> randra, fl_teachertool, italc and easy-ltsp for lts.conf management
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| 12:51 | <randra> thanks so much
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| 12:52 | symphoni
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| 12:52 | simphoni
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| 12:52 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:52 | <randra> it`s a managere too, not?
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| 12:52 | manager*
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| 12:53 | dmaran has left #ltsp | |
| 12:54 | <Q-FUNK> hm
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| 12:55 | <gbolte> hi Q-FUNK
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| 12:55 | <Q-FUNK> hi
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| 12:57 | <cyberorg> randra, there are kiosktool and sabayon too, depending on what you call manager :)
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| 12:57 | <randra> humm ok
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| 12:58 | cyber i`m making tests here with nice ltsp server
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| 12:58 | and a sux ltsp cliente ( hehe )
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| 12:58 | using floppy disk to boot, and nfs to make a /
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| 12:58 | ltsp 4.2
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| 12:58 | ok...
| |
| 12:59 | my client boot, and open rdesktop to one M$ 2003 server
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| 12:59 | in local network, NIC 10/100
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| 13:00 | when i log with user and password, and start to use windows
| |
| 13:00 | the clients, almost stop
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| 13:00 | being very slowww
| |
| 13:01 | to open start button on windows, +- 10 secs
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| 13:01 | using vesa driver, with a sux vga card
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| 13:01 | <Guaraldo> randra: how much RAM and video memory on TC?
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| 13:02 | <randra> guaraldo, my tc is very sux, it my oldest machine! :D
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| 13:02 | with 64mb edu :D
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| 13:02 | and *maybe 16mb of vga
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| 13:03 | really it`s a super machine
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| 13:03 | <Guaraldo> randra: 64MB is what the kernel 2.6 uses to boot...
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| 13:03 | <randra> ;(
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| 13:03 | <Guaraldo> randra: Try put more 64 MB on this machine...
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| 13:03 | <randra> what u think about use rdesktop and M$ windows 2003 ?
| |
| 13:04 | how much memory i need to use rdesktop
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| 13:04 | with this considerations
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| 13:04 | <Guaraldo> randra: Here in Propus we have a client with 7 W2k3 servers serving more than 60 client each one...
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| 13:05 | <randra> ok
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| 13:05 | here, i dont have good TC`s
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| 13:06 | i will use ltsp to boot this to use wts
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| 13:06 | and yesterday i have the same problem
| |
| 13:06 | and we talked in pvt
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| 13:07 | <Guaraldo> randra: Yep...
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| 13:08 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 13:08 | <randra> well, u've notion how much memory in each TC to use this?
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| 13:08 | muh2000 has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:08 | <Guaraldo> randra: try booting kernel 2.4 of LTSP 4.2... may be better for you...
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| 13:08 | randra: no USB storage included... :-D
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| 13:09 | <ogra> for ltsp5 you need at least 48M ram ... 64M recommended
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| 13:09 | <randra> ogra i`m using 4.2
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| 13:09 | <ogra> and as Guaraldo says, no extras
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| 13:09 | <randra> and M$ client
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| 13:10 | <Guaraldo> randra: clients with 128MB RAM can perfectly use all LTSP features...
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| 13:10 | <ogra> well, with ltsp 4.x you are pretty much on your own nowadays, it isnt developed anymore since 3 years ... last security update was about 2 years ago
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| 13:10 | with 128M you can easily use ltsp5
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| 13:10 | but 64M should suffice
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| 13:10 | <randra> humm thanks
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| 13:10 | <jammcq> ogra: hey, if you go to brazil next year for fisl-10, you'll get to meet Guaraldo
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| 13:11 | <ogra> cool !
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| 13:11 | <randra> and randra too :D
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| 13:11 | <ogra> i'll try to get there ;)
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| 13:11 | <jammcq> hmm, have I met randra?
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| 13:11 | <ogra> now that you dont clash with my release schedule anymore :)
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| 13:11 | <Guaraldo> ogra: It will be an honor to meet ogra...
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| 13:11 | <ogra> Guaraldo, and to meet one of our big users :)
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| 13:12 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: I don't think so... I never met him face-to-face...
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| 13:12 | <jammcq> ah
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| 13:12 | <ogra> jammcq, if i can find any nice mobile task at fisl i could even make the company pay ;) brazil is pretty big in mobile linux and i finally moved teams today
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| 13:13 | <jammcq> ah, that would be way cool
| |
| 13:13 | we'll need to find some sponsorship money for some of the people
| |
| 13:13 | dunno how much money is out there, but it seems to be getting tougher to get it
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| 13:13 | <ogra> :(
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| 13:15 | <Guaraldo> ogra: Hummm... maybe I can help you on this...
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| 13:16 | <ogra> lets talk again if time gets nearer then :)
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| 13:16 | <Guaraldo> ogra: If you have a special thing to FISL (as a speaker), I can try to get ASL sponsorship to you!
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| 13:19 | <randra> guaraldo, what is ASL ?
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| 13:20 | <Guaraldo> randra: http://associacao.softwarelivre.org
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| 13:58 | <ogra> Guaraldo, well, i personally dont need sponsoring i guess, canonical can easily afford paying for me if i find a reason for them ;) what jammcq meant above is money for other people to really get a bunch of ltsp devs there
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| 14:00 | canonical wont just pay for me for ltsp anymore (they paid me full time for working on it for two years and sponsored a lot of ltsp events as well) but in my new team where i work on ubuntu mobile i can likely find a task that fits with fisl ;)
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| 14:01 | <Guaraldo> ogra: great...
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| 14:02 | <ogra> would be good to get an ltsp dev there from every distro that is involved :)
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| 14:03 | and have a big ltsp talk including maddog or so ... i know ltsp is big in brazil
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| 14:11 | <Lns> Just throwing my 2c in .. you know what would be cool, is to videotape talks like what ogra's talking about and put it up on YouTube.. does LTSP have a YouTube channel at all?
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| 14:12 | It would be a great way to collaborate and showcase the tech that goes into it
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| 14:12 | <ogra> Lns, shouldnt be prob
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| 14:12 | *a
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| 14:12 | <laga> also make a "free" version available - flash doesn't work too well on thin clients last i heard ;)
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| 14:12 | <ogra> we did that at the last UDS for ubutu talks as well
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| 14:12 | http://www.youtube.com/ubuntudevelopers
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| 14:13 | <Lns> I would be glad to help create a chan on YT and put vids up if I could get them
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| 14:13 | oh cool!
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| 14:13 | laga: flash works pretty well for me on ltsp
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| 14:13 | <ogra> i'm not actually holing any talk, but i oranized the flash hug for dholbach :)
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| 14:13 | *organized
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| 14:14 | <Lns> that's awesome, 24 vids
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| 14:14 | <laga> Lns: i was mostly kidding
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| 14:14 | <Lns> ogra: do you think it would be a good idea to have an ltsp specific chan ?
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| 14:14 | laga: ... oh. =p ok?
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| 14:14 | <laga> Lns: but we probably all know that flash on linux sucks
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| 14:14 | <ogra> well, if we can collect some talks that would indeed be an option
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| 14:15 | <Lns> laga: well it's usable for me... it's definitely gotten better
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| 14:15 | <ogra> maddogs ltsp talks are awesome
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| 14:15 | <Lns> I've seen those
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| 14:15 | with the koolu TCs..hehe
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| 14:15 | <ogra> yeah
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| 14:15 | * Lns has a Koolu sitting at the desk in front of him | |
| 14:16 | <ogra> he always digs out these impressive numbers ... like if you have 500000 client you save this amount of megawatts in power etc :)
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| 14:16 | <jammcq> me is hoping that we can have a panel discussion with the ltsp developers, especially those from distros, showing how a multi-distro project can actually work
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| 14:16 | <Lns> that's awesome..and the numbers are really what matters to a lot of companies too
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| 14:16 | <jammcq> err, that's /me :)
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| 14:16 | <ogra> jammcq, yeah, that would be THE awesome :)
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| 14:17 | but requires a lot of sponsoring money to get them all there ... most wont have a company behing them to pay
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| 14:17 | martin3z has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:17 | <jammcq> we'll figure it out
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| 14:17 | <Lns> I have a random troubleshooting vid of LTSP on YT and it has almost 2k views...if something like that can get so many views, think of how many some actually well made vids can get =)
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| 14:17 | <jammcq> i'm sure of it
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| 14:30 | <martin3z> can i make fedora 9 with ltsp 5? and how to do it simpliest?
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| 14:50 | <randra> Guaraldo, time to goo? friday is ending thanks god =D
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| 15:30 | <Nubae> whats most important is the XP officially not being supported by April 2009
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| 15:30 | Think thats wehn
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| 15:31 | a lot of people are going to be moving their legacy apps to linux... and not to vista
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| 15:41 | johnny2 is now known as johnny | |
| 15:42 | <johnny> yay!
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| 15:42 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 15:42 | <johnny> i can finally commit :)
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| 15:43 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
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| 16:01 | <johnny> hmm.. now why won't this broadcom pxe implementation see my tftproot, but my virtualbox vm client will?
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| 16:01 | err tfp prefix
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| 16:09 | <Lns> Are there any caveats in removing network-manager*, besides obviously losing that interface for configuring interfaces?
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| 16:09 | mhterres has quit IRC | |
| 16:12 | <Lns> I get so many errors regarding network-manager when users log in that i'd rather just remove it.. i have static interfaces on the ltsp servers and really no need to use those facilities (i like doing it by hand)
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| 16:15 | Nubae1 is now known as Nubae | |
| 16:17 | <Nubae> god you're not the only one, network-manager is nothing but a pain in the backside
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| 16:17 | <Lns> heh
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| 16:17 | * Lns is very glad he's not alone | |
| 16:17 | <Nubae> its ok for roaming on laptopts
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| 16:18 | thats about it, and even then it doesnt work properly
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| 16:18 | <Lns> i really hate ranting...BUT NM seems to go the way of windows as far as locking the whole system when dis/re/connecting to a network
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| 16:18 | when i started seeing that...i was like "oh great. now i might as well be in windows"
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| 16:18 | * Lns is gonna shut up now as to not offend anyone | |
| 16:18 | <Nubae> and seriously if you dont know how to set up the eth0 and eth1 manually, u shouldnt be running ltsp anyway, inmho
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| 16:19 | it has no place in ltsp
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| 16:19 | :-) there I said it
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| 16:19 | <Lns> =p
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| 16:19 | <Nubae> not the discussion but the actual app itself
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| 16:19 | <Lns> right
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| 16:20 | <Nubae> and anyway, dont u get asked on setup what your network card eth number is gonna be?
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| 16:21 | <Lns> yeah...ltsp really should be an exception to not install nm
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| 16:21 | check this out..never seen it before
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| 16:21 | http://wicd.sourceforge.net/
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| 16:21 | if you really DO need a gui
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| 16:21 | looks nice..and compatible!
| |
| 16:23 | on to another subject - has anyone had any issues with gnome-watchdog ? I haven't yet, but have only installed it on my own server (with normally just me on it).
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| 16:24 | <Nubae> oh, I had issues with that one...
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| 16:24 | first... where is the source code?
| |
| 16:24 | * Lns shrugs | |
| 16:24 | <Nubae> then I noticed when installing the neverending threads it produces
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| 16:24 | for each user
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| 16:25 | Im not sure if it does more damage than good
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| 16:25 | <Lns> isn't that necessary though?
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| 16:25 | to watch their status?
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| 16:25 | <Nubae> I guess
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| 16:25 | <Lns> here's the source
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| 16:25 | jerickson@Fibonacci:~$ file /usr/share/gnome-watchdog/gnome-watchdog
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| 16:25 | /usr/share/gnome-watchdog/gnome-watchdog: Bourne-Again shell script text executable
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| 16:28 | according to my syslog, things procs do get killed upon logout
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| 16:29 | s/things//
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| 16:29 | <Nubae> so its just a script, nothing compiled?
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| 16:29 | <Lns> doesn't look like it
| |
| 16:29 | seems pretty straight forward
| |
| 16:29 | 75% of the script is checking if it's a gnome session or not (looking to see if gnome-panel is active)
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| 16:30 | <Nubae> ok, then I guess its allright, I've not seen too much damage, I had tons of problems with firefox 3 beta 5 at the time gnome watchdog was installed
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| 16:30 | and both running together caused problems
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| 16:30 | <Lns> hmm
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| 16:30 | but not after the final ff release?
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| 16:30 | <Nubae> I do remember that, but that was a while back
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| 16:30 | <johnny> hmm
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| 16:30 | don't talk too bad about nm yet
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| 16:31 | <Nubae> nah, after that there was the memory leak fix thingy
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| 16:31 | <johnny> .7 should be helpful, it will be at the system level
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| 16:31 | there something other than removing it that you can do
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| 16:31 | perhaps it is in /etc/xdg/autostart
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| 16:31 | <Nubae> how and why is it needed in ltsp johnny?
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| 16:31 | <johnny> and you can just tell it to stop
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| 16:31 | <Lns> johnny: well there really is no reason for me to have it anyway
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| 16:31 | not on ltsp servers anyway
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| 16:31 | <dberkholz> any of you folks encountered firefox or openoffice being horrible on an nfs homedir?
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| 16:31 | <johnny> because more stuff is going to rely on hal and dbus to even work
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| 16:32 | aha dberkholz :)
| |
| 16:32 | * Lns only knows of hal/dbus when they give errors | |
| 16:32 | <johnny> well you're obviously not noticing how good it is most other times then
| |
| 16:32 | <Lns> :)
| |
| 16:32 | <johnny> dbus rules
| |
| 16:32 | <Lns> i'd like to know how it works
| |
| 16:33 | <Nubae> how its interconnected with nm at least
| |
| 16:33 | <Lns> any good docs out there that explain to a non-programmer?
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| 16:33 | <johnny> well understand dbus first
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| 16:33 | there are info on why dbus is good
| |
| 16:33 | and if you understand why dbus is good.. then you'll understand that hal and nm are just dbus interfaces to your system
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| 16:33 | elisboa has quit IRC | |
| 16:33 | <Lns> ok
| |
| 16:34 | <johnny> standard dbus interaction here..
| |
| 16:34 | you're watching a movie
| |
| 16:34 | and normally a screensaver would kick in
| |
| 16:34 | <Nubae> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus
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| 16:34 | <johnny> in older distros
| |
| 16:35 | <Lns> thx Nubae
| |
| 16:35 | <johnny> but.. the movie player sets an inhibit signal.. and the power manager says.. oh.. they are watching a movie :)
| |
| 16:35 | and it won't set the screen saver
| |
| 16:35 | <Lns> johnny: that is so funny..i was just thinking about that scenario the other day
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| 16:35 | <johnny> and it's the same for network apps..
| |
| 16:35 | that's how evo knows that you aren't connected when checking email
| |
| 16:36 | or ntp knows not to ask for the time
| |
| 16:36 | <Nubae> ooook... so it controls some of the gui frontend network on and off stuff
| |
| 16:36 | <Lns> I guess it's just the "new" way of checking through filesystem/proc stuff?
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| 16:36 | <Nubae> weird way of explaining but think I get it
| |
| 16:36 | <johnny> and of course.. people use it for internal desktop integration too
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| 16:37 | <Lns> johnny: probably a dumb question, but why not just look in /proc for status on that kind of thing?
| |
| 16:37 | at least for networking
| |
| 16:37 | <johnny> if every music app .. with thier own nice and different UIs.. implemetn the same dbus signal
| |
| 16:37 | s
| |
| 16:37 | then you can have a standard "now playing" or status applet
| |
| 16:37 | and hit next, and it'll change it.. not matter what the player is
| |
| 16:37 | <Lns> that makes sense...so a common "language" of sorts for apps to talk to each other
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| 16:37 | <johnny> instead of coding in specific support
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| 16:38 | sure.. and the nice thing about dbus.. is that you can ask applicatiosn what methods they support
| |
| 16:38 | introspection..
| |
| 16:38 | not everything can go in /proc :)
| |
| 16:38 | and more and more proc stuff is going away into sysfs anyways
| |
| 16:38 | and cooperating with udev
| |
| 16:38 | next hal will be more closely tied to udev/sysfs
| |
| 16:38 | <Lns> is *bsd going to use/using dbus ?
| |
| 16:38 | <Nubae> was reading about upstart today
| |
| 16:39 | <johnny> dbus works on bsd..
| |
| 16:39 | <Nubae> how its replacing initab
| |
| 16:39 | <johnny> but networkmanager doens't yet i think
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| 16:39 | i could be wrong
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| 16:39 | yeah.. there is that too Nubae good example :)
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| 16:40 | * Lns likes the old way cuz it's tied more to filesystem things... i guess that's going the way of the Dodo, though | |
| 16:40 | <johnny> sure.. some of it is overengineered.. or underdeveloped.. but we're really seing a renaissance of *nix desktop usability :)
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| 16:40 | <Lns> probably for good reason
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| 16:40 | <johnny> give it a little bit of time to develop
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| 16:40 | Lns, then tell me why there is in /dev for net interfaces :)
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| 16:40 | <Nubae> seems one can do a lot with upstart, like miniscripts for the startup elements
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| 16:41 | <johnny> err no /dev
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| 16:41 | <Lns> i wish there was! =p
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| 16:41 | <johnny> evolve with us.. don't hold back :)
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| 16:41 | <Nubae> instead of doing stuff through /etc/profile and that... really control what happens at the different run levels
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| 16:41 | <johnny> well.. gentoo has a great init system now
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| 16:41 | no dbus yet tho..
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| 16:42 | gentoo has had dependency based init system as standard for ages
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| 16:42 | <Lns> I just remember when first learning how Linux works and how it was so nice to KNOW that everything on the system was represented through files, even devices, etc
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| 16:42 | <johnny> all POSIX sh compliant..
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| 16:42 | works on bsd and whta not
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| 16:42 | <Nubae> So Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora use upstart right?
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| 16:42 | <johnny> debian not sure..
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| 16:42 | <Nubae> inittab still being used by Suse
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| 16:42 | and gentoo?
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| 16:42 | <johnny> they probably all still populate /etc/inittab for compat reasons
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| 16:42 | i'll have to look
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| 16:43 | gentoo has named runlevels
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| 16:43 | <Nubae> heron has no inittab no more
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| 16:43 | file does not even exist
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| 16:43 | <johnny> aha..nice
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| 16:43 | i'll try upstart on gentoo at some point
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| 16:43 | the current system is fast enough tho
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| 16:43 | <Nubae> it seems far more interactive
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| 16:43 | <johnny> how fast do you get to a desktop ?
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| 16:43 | <Nubae> fast, much faster than with inittab it is said....
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| 16:44 | <johnny> how fast?
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| 16:44 | i know i have a full gnome session running within 50 seconds atm.
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| 16:44 | <Nubae> u want me to time it and tell u my arch? :-)
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| 16:44 | <johnny> on my 3 year old pc
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| 16:44 | well 4 now almost ..
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| 16:45 | 1.5 pentium -m
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| 16:45 | ltsp boots super quickly
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| 16:45 | i'm at a desktop even sooner
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| 16:45 | <Nubae> ltsp is just fast
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| 16:45 | dont know what has been done there, but its there in a flash
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| 16:45 | not even 5 seconds
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| 16:46 | <johnny> gentoo is now in ltsp :)
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| 16:46 | and i can commit
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| 16:46 | happy days
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| 16:46 | the next tagged release will be good
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| 16:47 | dberkholz, i got agaffney to add /bin/hostname to busybox.. so now we will get proper hostnames :)
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| 16:48 | <Nubae> Im writing up some generic ltsp documentation by ripping apart the old edubuntu classroom handbook
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| 16:48 | <johnny> we're gonna have to rely on a prerelease genkernel tho
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| 16:48 | <Nubae> but if u have gento specifics, send them my way please
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| 16:48 | <johnny> Nubae, ask lns for help :)
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| 16:48 | <Lns> hold on..phone
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| 16:48 | <johnny> Nubae, i'll be doing that in gentoo's doc format
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| 16:48 | guidexml
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| 16:48 | <Nubae> Id like to make a ltsp handbook
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| 16:48 | <johnny> xslt stylesheet to match every other doc
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| 16:48 | <Nubae> not just a edubuntu handbook
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| 16:48 | <johnny> i will link to yours
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| 16:48 | when it is done
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| 16:49 | <Nubae> ok cool
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| 16:49 | <johnny> will you get it on ltsp.org ?
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| 16:49 | <Nubae> I'll try
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| 16:49 | <johnny> i'm sure jammq wouldn't mind
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| 16:49 | <Nubae> there is so much ltsp stuff which is not distro specific
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| 16:49 | it really needs to be done
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| 16:55 | <johnny> so.. back to me
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| 16:55 | :)
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| 16:55 | anybody know why a pxe implementation wouldn't pick up the tftp prefix?
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| 17:12 | <johnny> ebuilds updated..
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| 18:27 | <Lns> Nubae: if you're interested, this is what i've documented for my school client - not sure if it's what you're looking for, it's mostly an overview of LTSP and how to do the most common tasks
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| 18:28 | http://logicalnetworking.net/other/UbuntuLinuxLTSPIntroductoryGuide.pdf
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| 19:10 | <petre> warren, ping
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