IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 July 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 15:18 | <TheMatrix3000> anyone here using Firefox, and LTSP and setting up a Proxy Server
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| 15:18 | I need my ltsp clients to use a proxy server i have setup
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| 15:18 | i just don't know how to direct the thin clients to use the proxy
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| 15:25 | <Hyperbyte> Either use a transparent proxy (you'll have to set some firewall rules for that on the router)
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| 15:25 | Or use mandatory Firefox config
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| 15:26 | Both of those solutions are unrelated to LTSP, you can find lots of information about them on Google.
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| 15:26 | <TheMatrix3000> i can't just set it in one place on the ltsp server
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| 15:26 | <Hyperbyte> Why not?
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| 15:28 | <TheMatrix3000> if i use firefoxmandatory will it affect ltsp-localapps firefox?
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| 15:29 | <Hyperbyte> If you set mandatory config in the client chroot it affects the client's applications (localapps) and if you set it on the server it affects the applications running on the server
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| 15:29 | Google if your friend man. :)
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| 15:29 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxMandatoryPreferences
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| 15:30 | *if -> is
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| 15:35 | <stgraber> alkisg: I guess https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+archive/daily will be quite useful to you :)
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| 15:38 | <TheMatrix3000> i know Hyberbyte i was already looking at it
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> stgraber: very nice - unfortunately even if it builds for lucid, it won't work because of older udhcpc version - but I already uploaded a backported ltsp for lucid in https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa
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| 15:38 | <TheMatrix3000> ah ok, i got you now byper
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| 15:38 | hyper*
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> *in https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/proposed/ - first we get them to proposed and then move them to the "stable" greek ppa
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| 15:46 | <stgraber> alkisg: can't we check for udhcpc's version in the upstream code rather than having to revert the commit?
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> We could, if we first ran `udhcpc --help` or something and checked the output, to see which version is available
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| 15:57 | <stgraber> do we get an error code when running the current code on lucid?
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| 15:57 | if so, we can probably catch that and start udhcpc without whatever option is causing problem
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> Not error code, but we could check the stderr for "udhcpc: invalid option -- 'C'"
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| 16:01 | Or we could just run `udhcpc --help` beforehand and see the supported options
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| 16:39 | # udhcpc -v
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| 16:39 | udhcpcd, version 0.9.9-pre
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| 16:39 | # busybox udhcpc -v
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| 16:39 | version 1.13.3
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| 16:40 | The old one should be the same from dapper to lucid
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| 16:41 | And for Debian up to Lenny
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| 16:47 | <fossala> I have tried to install ltsp on debian squeeze with 1 nic but when I boot the thin client it connects though dhcp then just has "tftp......." then times out.
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| 16:48 | I have looked on the net and cannot see where I have gone wrong.
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| 16:58 | <fossala> It eventualy times out with "tftp open timeout"
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| 17:02 | <Hyperbyte> !tftp | echo fossala
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| 17:02 | <ltsp> fossala tftp: Here's a page to help you troubleshoot TFTP problems in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP.
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| 17:04 | <fossala> Already seen that.
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| 17:04 | <Hyperbyte> Does it work connecting with a tftp client locally on the server?
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> So what is the next-server you get on gpxe?
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| 17:07 | <fossala> tftp 127.0.0.1 -v -m binary -c get /srv/tftp/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 17:07 | That returns with file not found.
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| 17:07 | the file is there though.
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> The path is relative to the tftp root
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| 17:07 | So, use `get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0`
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| 17:07 | Don't put the whole path there
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| 17:08 | <fossala> ok it managed to recive the file.
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> (08:04:46 μμ) alkisg: So what is the next-server you get on gpxe?
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| 17:08 | <fossala> How would I find that out? sorry.
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> By following the wiki page you already read :P)
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| 17:09 | <fossala> I don't have a usb stick or a cd drive on the client.
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> Do you have another client on the same subnet which you could try with?
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| 17:11 | (I mean, non ltsp)
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| 17:11 | <fossala> No.
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| 17:11 | What should next server match in my dhcp.conf?
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> Nothing, you should leave it commented out so that the server ip is used
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| 17:12 | <fossala> Damn. Will check that out.
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> What is your server/client arch?
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| 17:12 | i386/i386?
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| 17:12 | <fossala> amd64/i386
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> Try this as root on your server: /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
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| 17:14 | If you get a lease, then you have 2 dhcp servers on the same network, which is a problem
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| 17:14 | <fossala> http://pastebin.com/7r9vE0Hv
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| 17:15 | file not found now I have commented out nextserver
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> fossala: so, you have another server around
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| 17:15 | That's a problem. You may have other problems too, but that's one that may affect you.
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| 17:16 | *dhcp server
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| 17:16 | <fossala> I had the same setup with ubuntu 2 hours ago.
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| 17:17 | fixed it.
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> It's still a broken setup
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| 17:18 | You can make ltsp setups work with 2 dhcp servers
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| 17:18 | But if you don't make reservations or use proxydhcp, it's a broken setup
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| 17:18 | <fossala> I have the dhcp on my router aswell.
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> Yes, we do that here too
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| 17:18 | So you should use a proxydhcp server on your ltsp server instead
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| 17:18 | Because now you have a broken setup
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| 17:19 | !proxy-dhcp
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| 17:19 | <ltsp> alkisg: proxy-dhcp: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP.
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| 17:19 | <alkisg> Or, if you have a good programmable router, you could just fill "next-server" and "option path" there
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| 17:19 | *root-path
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| 17:20 | <fossala> Ok I will look into proxydhcp
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> E.g. cisco routers support that, cheap d-links etc don't, so proxydhcp is needed there
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| 17:20 | <fossala> cheapish d-link here
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> Here too :) That's why we persuaded the dnsmasq developer to support the proxydhcp mode :)
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| 18:04 | <Barco> Any one know of ltsp projects that work with rural schools?
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| 18:05 | <Hyperbyte> Barco, perhaps I don't understand correctly what 'rural schools' are, so forgive me if this a dumb counter-question, but what would the problem be with LTSP in rural schools?
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| 18:08 | <Hyperbyte> Hey Andy. :)
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| 18:08 | <Barco> O, sorry let me expand.
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| 18:09 | am looking at getting guys together locally to help a rural school setup a lab.
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| 18:09 | <Hyperbyte> How many clients?
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| 18:09 | <Barco> Heard of a group called linuxlab.org that collect terminal worthy PC's for use in impoverished schools
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| 18:10 | but they have dissapeared.
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| 18:10 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, basically you're hardware scouting? :)
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| 18:11 | <Barco> Basically, but was also hoping to find some support as this is a greater issue than the hardware.
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| 18:12 | <Hyperbyte> Well, supporting people setting up and troubleshooting LTSP is what we do here. :)
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| 18:12 | <Barco> Great, will ask as questions arise. What's the minumum network harware I need for 10PC's?
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| 18:13 | <Hyperbyte> Depends on what software users are gonna use, as well as how powerful clients you have.
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| 18:13 | <andygraybeal> hi Hyperbyte :)
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| 18:13 | <Hyperbyte> Clients can run certain software (like a browser) locally, which will greatly take tax off the server & network and increase performance all around.
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| 18:14 | But they need a bit of ram (at least 512mb I think) and a decent processor (1ghz?) to do that... I'm guessing a bit here.
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| 18:14 | <Barco> I was thinking of using 486 - P2 clients as they are easy to source and don't have street value as a stolen item.
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| 18:15 | <Hyperbyte> But basically, for multi-user environments it helps to have dual or even quad core processors, as this multiplies your system speed. And sufficient RAM...
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| 18:16 | <Barco> I can search for sponsors for that. Would I need gigabit networking?
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| 18:16 | <TheMatrix3000> no
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| 18:16 | not really
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| 18:16 | unless you have lots and lots of clients
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| 18:17 | like 50+
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| 18:17 | then it just helps
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| 18:17 | but you don't need it
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| 18:17 | i have 72 clients
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| 18:17 | NFS + LTSP + LDAP
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| 18:18 | <Barco> Looking at getting edubuntu up and running. guess they won't need extreme video playback or the likes.
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| 18:18 | <Hyperbyte> Barco, it also depends again on what software you're gonna run. A flash video at fullscreen will bring a 100mbit to it''s knees.
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| 18:19 | <TheMatrix3000> basically, i will run firefox and flash as local apps
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| 18:19 | i would suggest running those as local apps if you can
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| 18:19 | <Barco> I noticed, my lab runs that. It was crawling
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| 18:19 | <Hyperbyte> I'm not sure 486 - P2 clients are gonna like Firefox.
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| 18:19 | <TheMatrix3000> they wouldn't like flash haha
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| 18:20 | but if your machines are 486's
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| 18:20 | they won't have gigabit
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| 18:20 | lol
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| 18:20 | <Barco> true lol
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| 18:21 | would basic edubuntu apps work without lag?
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| 18:21 | <TheMatrix3000> yea should
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| 18:21 | <Hyperbyte> Barco, it really depends man. :) I would suggest getting a live Edubuntu DVD and just trying it out
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| 18:22 | <TheMatrix3000> i mean ldap is network intensive
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| 18:22 | <Hyperbyte> You can get a live DVD which sets an LTSP server up on your network. If you then boot a computer via PXE netboot, it'll log into the live system
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| 18:22 | <TheMatrix3000> with all 72 clients, i notice an average of about 28gb of traffic a day
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| 18:22 | at least
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| 18:22 | <Barco> first need to find clients
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| 18:23 | 28GB wow! using 100mb net?
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| 18:24 | what server hardware are you running? and what for clients?
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| 18:24 | <TheMatrix3000> http://screencast.com/t/ZkNCzXZtKSU
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| 18:24 | I have a Dual Xeon Quad 2.8Ghz with 8GB ram
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| 18:25 | and using a gigabit backbone to 100mb to clients
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| 18:25 | <Barco> Hmm nice setup.
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| 18:25 | <TheMatrix3000> we have 72+ clients connecting to this one server
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| 18:26 | average load is 1.5
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| 18:26 | which is great
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| 18:26 | lowest i got during operating hours on it was 0.4
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| 18:27 | <Barco> how do you manage network traffic. multiple lan cards & subnets?
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| 18:27 | <TheMatrix3000> i have a pfsense box with 1 gbe lan port using vlans to subnet the traffic
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| 18:27 | and the other ports are for our internet which does load balancing etc
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| 18:27 | <Hyperbyte> Barco, I still recommend you do a live version of LTSP somewhere. All it takes is two computers connected via a cross cable and you can test what impact local vs. server applications has on CPU usage vs. network usage, etc.
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| 18:27 | <TheMatrix3000> yea
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| 18:28 | <Barco> do you use onboard lan for clients or add on lan cards?
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| 18:28 | <TheMatrix3000> expecially if you are using 486 clients
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| 18:28 | i don't think it really matters barco on that
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| 18:28 | but you should test it
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| 18:28 | what kind of server are you planning on using?
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| 18:28 | and 486mhz is slow
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| 18:28 | are probably harder to find
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| 18:29 | <Hyperbyte> Too slow maybe
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| 18:29 | <TheMatrix3000> 1ghz pIII machines are about $30 a pop
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| 18:29 | <Barco> core2duo 3ghz +/- 2-3GB ram.
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| 18:29 | <TheMatrix3000> I think I would agree with Hyperbyte
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| 18:29 | 486 is too slow
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| 18:29 | <Hyperbyte> But Barco, here's an idea... yeah, like TheMatrix3000 said, clients are -cheap-. If you can get a server sponsored, you can get clients sponsoered.
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| 18:30 | <Barco> Probably. I'll try.
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| 18:30 | <TheMatrix3000> yea, i mean you can find P3 1Ghz machines all over
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| 18:30 | they are basically trash now adays
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| 18:31 | in downtown columbus they were running Windows XP Thin Clients on them
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| 18:31 | <Barco> problem with faster computers as clients is desireability to steal the pc
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| 18:31 | But I'll have to work something out for security
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| 18:32 | <TheMatrix3000> well the 1gz client
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| 18:32 | is only value bout 30$
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| 18:32 | <Hyperbyte> Barco, I can't imagine anyone stealing thin clients.
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| 18:33 | Especially not if you get actual thin clients without harddisk (the little ones)
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| 18:33 | <Barco> some peeps in this communities live off less than $100 a month.
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| 18:33 | <Hyperbyte> Barco, so bolt them down.
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| 18:34 | <Barco> TIA - this is Africa ;)
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| 18:34 | <TheMatrix3000> oh
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| 18:34 | wow
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| 18:34 | well bolt them down
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| 18:34 | take out the hard drives
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| 18:35 | then they serve no purpose even as a machine to people
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| 18:35 | <Barco> and put a sticker on them stating the fact lol
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| 18:35 | <Hyperbyte> Barco, my advice, try and find a good sponsor, that can sponsor 10 cheap clients, 1 decent server, cabling, a hub, and equipment to bolt them down.
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| 18:36 | You're talking about what, $1200 dollars?
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| 18:36 | <Barco> When people have nothin anything even insignificant seems significant.
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| 18:37 | About,
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| 18:37 | <TheMatrix3000> your situation seems more of a political and physical one then a technological one
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| 18:37 | which makes it difficult cause technology has the reputation of being "valuable"
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| 18:38 | <Barco> probably true. I'll research more and come back with questions
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| 18:38 | <TheMatrix3000> people steal things just cause they think they work and are worth something even if the system doesn't work at all
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| 18:38 | if someone wants them enough they will just lift the tables out of the room
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| 18:38 | and take them with the computer bolted to it
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| 18:38 | <Barco> and recycle the metal ;)
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| 18:39 | <TheMatrix3000> so it is a risk no matter what
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| 18:40 | <Barco> That is the situation that has me stumped. Will be a real waste to do all that work to have it demolished for perceived worth.
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| 18:41 | Will chew on it and speak to friends.
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| 18:42 | Thanx guys
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| 18:46 | <Hyperbyte> Anytime. :)
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| 18:51 | <TheMatrix3000> Hyper, it sounds to me like his biggest challenge is that, technology has value
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| 18:58 | <Hyperbyte> TheMatrix3000, I got that. :)
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| 18:59 | It's different situation... I tell my boss the whole project will cost him around $5000 and that it'll be cheaper and better than Windows PC's and he says "ok"
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| 19:00 | <andygraybeal> barco, i don't know your situation... can you secure the server atleast?
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| 19:00 | cause clients are a dime a dozen
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| 19:01 | we are lucky here.. i can go to an auction every quarter and grab any machine i want for about $20 bucks
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| 19:01 | if i feel like gambling i can bid on machines by the pallet.. and get an even better price.. but i don't have a truck for the pallet.
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| 19:06 | <TheMatrix3000> haha
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| 19:06 | andy, how many clients you use?
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| 19:07 | andygraybeal: how many ltsp client do you manage?
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| 19:07 | <andygraybeal> TheMatrix3000, oh lik e8
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| 19:07 | er 8
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| 19:08 | i'm just saying :)
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| 19:08 | <TheMatrix3000> lol
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| 19:08 | that isn't bad haha, i don't even know about auctions
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| 19:08 | basically our IT dept wins all server costs by using, well on windows its this much, on ubuntu its this
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| 19:08 | and they are like damn nice :)
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| 19:08 | <andygraybeal> it's fun.. i'm in the sticks obviously :) so there are a bunch of hicks and metal scrappers to compete with. normally they don't go very high though so it's not bad.
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| 19:08 | <TheMatrix3000> i sitll wish there was a way to add redundancy to ltsp
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| 19:09 | yea, you said you were in athens right?
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| 19:09 | <andygraybeal> the cluster adds a bit of redundancy, i believe.
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| 19:09 | yea, athens
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| 19:09 | OU is the place that has teh auctions every quarter
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| 19:09 | <TheMatrix3000> well in the cluster if a server goes of line it matters which one and any client using that server goes down
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| 19:10 | right?
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| 19:10 | <andygraybeal> hey man, i'm getting dsl.. at my new squat. i haven't had dsl in 7 years cause we live out in the boonies.. what kinda dsl modem do your recommend i buy?
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| 19:10 | <TheMatrix3000> now what if the controller went down
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| 19:10 | whatever one your provider recommends
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| 19:10 | <andygraybeal> yea, the user goes down.. but they just log back in to the system and keep working.
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| 19:10 | <TheMatrix3000> really?
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| 19:10 | <andygraybeal> our provider told us to go to radio shack and pick one up.. i figure i could do a bit better.
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| 19:11 | <TheMatrix3000> what if the controller system dies
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| 19:11 | the ltsp load balancer
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| 19:11 | <andygraybeal> oh the controller system yes.. that's what i've always thought too.. if they could be redundant then i would be comfortable with it.
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| 19:11 | <TheMatrix3000> well im at that point where 90% of our company internally relies on LTSP
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| 19:11 | <andygraybeal> i'm afraid to buy anything from radio shack
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| 19:12 | <TheMatrix3000> if the ltsp server goes down they start thinking about sending people home
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| 19:12 | <andygraybeal> you got redundant power supply, RAID array? backups?
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| 19:12 | <TheMatrix3000> yep
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| 19:12 | <andygraybeal> just buy spares and you should be good... hopefully
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| 19:12 | <TheMatrix3000> actually all user data is raid 10
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| 19:12 | the os is raid 1
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| 19:13 | lol
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| 19:13 | <andygraybeal> i know what you mean though
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| 19:13 | i want the same for my system.
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| 19:13 | <TheMatrix3000> so far i managed
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| 19:13 | LTSP + NFS + LDAP
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| 19:13 | <andygraybeal> i want two controllers and two app servers.
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| 19:14 | that's bad ass!
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| 19:14 | <TheMatrix3000> coming from just LTSP
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| 19:14 | <andygraybeal> your further along than i am.
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| 19:14 | <TheMatrix3000> well, when i came into the company shit was always broken
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| 19:14 | at least now there are days with 0 issues
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| 19:14 | those days i feel like i should just go home
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| 19:14 | lol
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| 19:14 | cause im watching hulu all day
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| 19:15 | <andygraybeal> i decided to start moving away from nagios and go with that nagios fork
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| 19:15 | <TheMatrix3000> which fork
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| 19:15 | <andygraybeal> i just found out about it today
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| 19:15 | <TheMatrix3000> cause im using nagios and love it
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| 19:15 | except the administration is a little harder cause theres no gui
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| 19:15 | or web interface to make modifications
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| 19:15 | <andygraybeal> nagios is great, but the developer is getting greedy.. so the community forked.
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| 19:15 | <TheMatrix3000> but it tells me what service are up and stuff
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| 19:15 | <andygraybeal> it's called icinga
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| 19:16 | <TheMatrix3000> ah, kinda like Gosa2
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| 19:16 | or now the fork is fusiondirectory
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| 19:16 | <andygraybeal> ahthat's right you were talking about that.
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| 19:16 | <TheMatrix3000> ah, damn dude
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| 19:16 | icinga looks dope
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| 19:17 | looks like a much better web interface
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| 19:17 | <andygraybeal> yea totally., and there are instructions on how to report uptimes that actually make sense. (db + jasperreports + pre-made templates)
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| 19:17 | the web interface is still too new for me.. something don't support it yet.. like reports.
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| 19:18 | but yes, i'm looking forward to using the web interface when it becomes more stable/supported.
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| 19:18 | <TheMatrix3000> do i still have to use text files to add hosts and stuff
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| 19:18 | <andygraybeal> i think so
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| 19:18 | there are things like nconf to help with that.
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| 19:18 | <TheMatrix3000> ah, then ill be sticking with nagios lol
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| 19:18 | <andygraybeal> well it uses the same files
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| 19:19 | you just copy your services.cfg and hosts.cfg over.
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| 19:19 | the thing for me is i need historical metrics
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| 19:19 | so i want to use pnp4nagios :)
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| 19:20 | which works with both... but nevermind i'm confused.
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| 19:20 | the reporting made sense. their instructions.
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| 19:23 | <TheMatrix3000> ha we had a new ethernet connection from XO installed yesterday
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| 19:23 | take a guess what our speedtest ping was
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| 19:24 | <andygraybeal> i dont' evenknow what XO is
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| 19:24 | <TheMatrix3000> its a carrier for internet
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| 19:24 | like Time Warner
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| 19:24 | <andygraybeal> but i don't know ... 100ms
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| 19:24 | <TheMatrix3000> We have Fiber through Time Warner and our Ethernet is from XO
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| 19:24 | lol 5ms
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| 19:24 | our fiber is 10ms
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| 19:24 | our ethernet is 5
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| 19:24 | i was rofl
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| 19:24 | i was like holy shit
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| 19:24 | <andygraybeal> that is crazy
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| 19:25 | <TheMatrix3000> yea for sure
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| 19:25 | i told the CTO, we may have to switch our voip to use our ethernet connection
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| 19:25 | <andygraybeal> i get 51ms from speedtest
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| 19:28 | <TheMatrix3000> one sec i remoted into the office
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| 19:28 | here's a screenshot
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| 19:30 | http://screencast.com/t/UrMhSGKf2
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| 19:30 | its a 5MB ethernet connection from XO
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| 19:30 | i did that over rdp
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| 19:30 | and its going through a proxy
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| 19:44 | <andygraybeal> nice :)
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| 19:46 | what service did you purchase from them?
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| 19:47 | do they provide in athens?!!? eheheh probably not
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| 19:50 | TheMatrix3000, why do you think theirs is so fast?
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