IRC Logs

Channel log from 22 November 2008 (all times are UTC)

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04:49	<Eghie> anyone, running LTSP right now on a client with a local harddrive, which is not mounted in LTSP?
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07:19	<jammcq> g'morning friends
07:19	<rjune_> morning
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08:31	<mistik1> morning guys
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08:40	<rjune_> mistik1: sup
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15:48	<petre> !docs
15:48	<ltspbot> petre: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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20:21	<petre> sbalneav, ping
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21:25	<sbalneav> Evening all
21:47	<rjune_> howdy
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22:08	<jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:27	<stgraber> evening sbalneav
22:27	sbalneav: I'm working on improving screen_session so that you can switch SCREEN_XX without requiring a reboot, that's something we had quite a lot of request for ltsp-cluster but I'm not 100% sure of how to do it
22:28	for now I just moved the while loop making it recreate the environement, that works fine in most case but not all
22:28	as I'd like to start with a fresh environement everytime but as we do export I can't be sure the previous loop execution didn't set something I no longer want
22:29	easiest way I found to workaround it is to make screen_session to launch another script that'll set the environement and start the screen script, that way the environement of screen_session is always empty and as the loop is in it, every loop run the environement will be clean
22:29	I just don't know if there is another better way of doing it ...
22:32	sbalneav: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f3fda47d6 that's the current script I have, what I'd basically like is to make that the main() function can't change the parent environement
22:32	so if I have "export LDM_AUTLOGIN=True" somewhere in main(), the second time it's executed it won't be there anymore
22:33	the workaround I thought of is to make main() an external script instead of a function so that it'll do what I want
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22:35	<sbalneav> Hm
22:37	Not sure how we could completely clean out...
22:37	one sec.
22:37	Lemme look something up
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22:42	<sbalneav> Yeah, as I thought. There's no way to have a child process modify the parent.
22:42	Easiest way would be to create a function in the ltsp-common functions, called clean_env
22:43	that just does an: unset LDM_AUTOLOGIN
22:43	unset LDM_USERNAME
22:43	...
22:43	..
22:43	basically, unset all the possible ltsp variables.
22:43	<stgraber> well, unset everything that can be set in lts.conf, that makes a lot of variables
22:43	<sbalneav> yup :)
22:44	<stgraber> I guess I'll just go with making main() a separate script so that it won't be able to change screen_session's environement
22:45	<sbalneav> Making a clean function wouldn't be that hard. I could do it in about 10 minutes. Want me to do it.
22:45	?
22:45	might be useful in other places eventually too.
22:46	<stgraber> well, do we have a good way of determining all non-standard environement variables (as in all that aren't set when you start a shell) ?
22:46	I don't want a static list as you can't now what custom variables will be used for some user-done screen.d scripts or ldm rc.d scripts
22:48	<jammcq> seems like it would be nice to have a documented standard naming convention for variables. a well-behaved screen script would follow that standard, and scotty's clean-up script would have an easy job
22:48	<sbalneav> Hmm, that's true.
22:49	yeah, I was just thinking. All ldm variables start with LDM_
22:49	if all the other variables started with LTSP_ or the like, then it would be easy to tell.
22:49	<jammcq> well, it's never too late to start
22:50	<sbalneav> :)
22:50	<Ryan52> well, some of the gtkgreet variables also start with LDM_. they should be GTKGREET_ instead. especially since someday the Qt greeter might be ready :P
22:51	anyway, that's irrelavant to this conversation. goes back to whatever he was doing
22:51	<jammcq> the clean-up script could have a plug-in capability. if you install a QT greeter, it should include a QT cleanup plug-in
22:51	<sbalneav> would the gtkgreeter variables be general enough to use for a Qt greeter? Could we just use GREETER_THEME, etc...
22:51	<jammcq> LDM could include a clean-up plug in as well
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23:04	<spud1> Hi. What became of k12os.org?
23:05	<stgraber> sbalneav: what about something like: unset $(/usr/bin/env \| egrep '^(\w+)=(.*)$' \| \ egrep -vw 'PWD\|USER\|LANG' \| /usr/bin/cut -d= -f1);
23:05	sbalneav: so we'd do it the other way around, specifying what we want to keep
23:07	<jammcq> stgraber: so when a user logs out, are you going to re-parse the lts.conf file before allowing the user to log in?
23:07	<stgraber> jammcq: basically what we want for ltsp-cluster is: you logout, X stops, you come back to screen_session, it gets what screen script needs to be executed and the rest of the environement and start the screen script
23:08	so it's like you're rebooting the computer as far as the configuration is concerned
23:08	you can basically change everything and it'll be updated at logout
23:08	<jammcq> yes, but..... that's how LTSP used to work, back around LTSP-4.0. we changed it around because we wanted to speed up the time to re-login
23:09	<stgraber> one of the request we have is in case where the SAN fails, so the session will crash, they will reload the config with LDM_AUTLOGIN=True and load an autologin session that doesn't have network mounted /home
23:09	currently they need to reboot 3k thin clients to do that
23:10	(taking like an hour to do even when remotely rebooting because of the dhcp/tftp/nbd servers being overloaded by the whole network rebooting)
23:10	<jammcq> how often does the SAN fail?
23:10	<stgraber> often enough for them to ask for a way to workaround it :)
23:10	<jammcq> seems like you'll be penalizing EVERYBODY for the off chance that a SAN would fail, which i'd imagine would be a rare occurrance
23:10	<rjune_> that's scary
23:11	<jammcq> seems like they should fix their SAN infrastructure
23:11	<stgraber> but same goes if the LDAP server goes done, ...
23:11	<rjune_> jammcq: I'm with you
23:11	<stgraber> they are also working on that with the guys at Novell
23:12	<jammcq> but there's some optimization that's been done to speed up the logout->login experience and you'll be removing that
23:12	<stgraber> we are asked to provide high availability and we don't choose what SAN technology they are using so we need HA even in degrated mode which is why we spent time implementing our autologin
23:13	<jammcq> what starts the screen scripts now?
23:13	<stgraber> jammcq: depends, we can call the reset environement only when /etc/ltsp/getltscfg-cluster.conf is present, so only affecting the ltsp-cluster setup
23:13	jammcq: screen_session does
23:14	<jammcq> It's been a long time since i've looked at any of the code, but I think we used to start the screen scripts from init
23:14	if you detect an error in a screen script, you could drop out of the script, which would cause init to respawn, giving you a fresh environment
23:15	or maybe it was init->screen_session->screen_script
23:15	<stgraber> nope, currently the loop is in screen_session, that's what's respawning the screen script
23:15	<jammcq> so screen_script could return something back to screen_session, and screen_session could be told to die, which should then be respawned by init
23:15	or upstart
23:15	again, giving you a fresh environment
23:16	a simple logout shouldn't cause screen_session to terminate
23:16	<stgraber> yeah, having it as a /etc/event.d script is what I'd like to have at the end but not until every distribution has it
23:16	<jammcq> so it would still be fast
23:17	<stgraber> I guess that for now, I just will reset the environement when ltsp-cluster is detected using something similar to the one-liner I copy/pasted before
23:18	so there won't be any performance change for regular LTSP and the ltsp-cluster users will be happy. If we then want it for regular ltsp too, we'll just need to make it so it use the same function and re-downloads lts.conf
23:18	sbalneav: ^ does that make sense ?
23:18	<jammcq> well, that way, you have what you want, and if it doesn't cause a performance problem, it's a simple change to make it that way for everybody
23:20	<sbalneav> Yeah, makes sense.
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23:31	<spud1> So, is it stiill feasable to do a OpenMosix type cluster with k12ltsp?
23:31	<jammcq> does Openmosix still exist?
23:32	<spud1> discontinued since March
23:32	<jammcq> hmm, I thought it was gone years ago
23:32	is there something to replace it?
23:33	<spud1> Maybe, but I think you can still get it
23:34	<jammcq> well, because LTSP is now based on distro packages, including the standard kernel, it should be fairly straightforward to use it for clustering
23:35	if you can make normal disk-based linux work, doing it with ltsp should be almost the same
23:36	<spud1> Seems to make sence to bring in all those cpus
23:36	You could use a lower end server
23:37	<jammcq> well, are you talking about making a compute farm? or maybe you just want to run each users apps locally, on their thin client
23:38	<spud1> Don't know. A farm, maybe.
23:39	<jammcq> stgraber is working on ltsp-cluster, maybe that's what you need
23:39	<spud1> Thanks I'll look.
23:47	<stgraber> ok, building a new ltsp chroot with my changes to screen_session to make sure LTSP isn't affected at all. If it's fine I'll build some test packages to test the ltsp-cluster part, I hope to be able to tag a new LTSP tomorrow after I did my tests.
23:47	at this point ltsp-cluster will be entirely merged for its client part (chroot)
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Channel log from 22 November 2008 (all times are UTC)