IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 January 2017 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:27 | <Guest78403> guys i am looking for a little help with the ltsp-localapps process
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| 02:31 | when i type the command in i get command not found
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| 02:33 | i dont know if it matters but i am on the raspberry pi2 client. It works as expected except for the local apps
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| 02:39 | <Guest77238> hi
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| 02:39 | looking for help with ltsp-localapps
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| 02:49 | i have installed ltsp server and i can boot a client to the lubuntu desktop. i have been in the chroot and also install the lubuntu desktop in there
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| 02:51 | my goal is to get a hand full of apps to run directly from the pie...no apps would be run at the same time...with the main app being kodi
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| 02:53 | in the terminal when i type ltsp-localapps i get command not found from the client side...i can type this in one the server and it looks like it does nothing
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| 02:53 | local apps is set in the lts.conf
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> Guest77238: do you have epoptes installed?
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| 06:14 | !epoptes
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| 06:14 | <ltsp`> epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based labs with LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> !client-list
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| 07:38 | <ltsp`> client-list: to get a list of all nbd-clients (which sometimes is the same as ltsp clients), run: netstat -tn | sed -n 's/.*:10809 *\([0-9.]*\):.*/\1/p' | sort -Vu
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> !nbd-client
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| 08:06 | <ltsp`> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 11:52 | <Statler> systemd-udevd[xxx]: Process 'ltspfs_entry add nbd5' failed with exit code 1
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| 11:53 | has someone seen this
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| 11:55 | <Statler> got this for all nbds excluding nbd9
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| 11:59 | <alkisg> Statler: I don't think ltsp uses nbd5
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| 12:00 | Anything customized there?
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| 12:03 | <Statler> I got this fpr nbd2 to nbd13
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| 12:03 | excepting nbd 9
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| 12:03 | [ 13.864409] block nbd9: NBD_DISCONNECT
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| 12:03 | [ 13.864492] block nbd9: shutting down socket
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| 12:03 | [ 13.864652] block nbd9: Receive control failed (result -32)
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| 12:03 | [ 44.047869] block nbd9: Connection timed out, shutting down connection
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| 12:03 | [ 44.047881] blk_update_request: I/O error, dev nbd9, sector 3956416
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| 12:03 | [ 44.048058] block nbd9: Attempted send on closed socket
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| 12:10 | devices/virtual/block/nbd9' is taking a long time
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| 12:10 | and when I ask via "fdisk -l" nothing is connected to nbd9
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| 13:43 | <Guest77238> <alkisg> no i do not hae epoptes installed
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> Statler: nbd0 is root (/), nbd1 is swap, and nbd9 is a test for updated root
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| 14:06 | The rest are unused, so maybe udev calls ltspfs_entry and nothing happens
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| 14:07 | Guest77238: eh, it will be hard to help if you answer once every 8 hours :D
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| 14:08 | <Statler> alkisg, "nbd9 is a test for updated root" and was accessed after disconnecting it?
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| 14:08 | what is the sense of it?
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> Statler: I haven't checked that part of the code recently, but it's just a check of "if a newer image is available, and we're at ldm, reboot"
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| 14:09 | Insignificant...
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| 14:09 | It may have issues, sure, and also nbd-client is kinda buggy...
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| 14:12 | <Statler> im looking for the reason why kworker and nbd-client hang
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> At which point does nbd-client hang?
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| 14:13 | <Statler> different
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| 14:13 | '/devices/virtual/block/nbd9' is taking a long time
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> I don't get the actual issue
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| 14:14 | nbd-client hangs while accessing nbd9?
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| 14:14 | So if you actually remove that part of the code, everything works fine?
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| 14:14 | Or do you think it's a problem with nbd-client/server in your distro/version, unrelated to ltsp?
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| 14:16 | <Statler> i paste you a part of the syslog
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| 14:18 | http://pastebin.com/hEjYt7u5
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| 14:28 | <Guest77238> <alkisg> sorry have to get ready for work
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| 14:29 | but i do have a fe minutes
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> Guest77238: no problem, come back some other day...
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| 14:30 | when you'll be more available
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| 14:30 | <Guest77238> <alkisg> have you seen that error before?
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> Guest77238: only if packages are missing
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| 14:30 | Statler: that message usually happens when the connection is lost
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| 14:31 | Statler: like, actual networking issues, cables, switch, that kind of stuff
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| 14:31 | or, nbd-server restarted server-side etc etc
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| 14:32 | <Guest77238> <alkisg> that is a posibility as i have never done this before...idea on what package i might search for?
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> Guest77238: the package that provides ltsp-localapps is ltsp-client-core
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| 14:33 | <Guest77238> <alkisg> i know that package is installed
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| 14:33 | <alkisg> # dpkg -S /usr/bin/ltsp-localapps
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| 14:33 | ltsp-server: /usr/bin/ltsp-localapps
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| 14:33 | Sorry, ltsp-server provides ltsp-localapps
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| 14:33 | While ltsp-client-core provides ltsp-localappsd
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| 14:33 | <Statler> alkisg, I01-nbd-checkupdate do this. I have found it :)
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| 14:33 | <alkisg> If you installed a desktop in the chroot, it's a fat client now
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| 14:34 | So it doesn't have ltsp-localapps because it's not running on the server anymore
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| 14:34 | It's already running as "localapps"
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| 14:34 | <Guest77238> <alkisg> yes it a fat client
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> yes
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| 14:34 | Statler: yes, that is what tests nbd9, but it's surely not what's causing the kernel panic
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| 14:35 | Guest77238: I think you don't realize what a fat clients is
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| 14:35 | A fat client runs everything as "localapps"
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| 14:35 | So ltsp-localapps wouldn't do anything in this case
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| 14:36 | If you set LTSP_FATCLIENT=False in lts.conf, then it will be thin again
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| 14:36 | So then you can enable "some localapps"
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| 14:36 | Now you have "everything is a localapp"
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| 14:36 | <Statler> this test only takes effect after a user logs out from the X. Than they normal shut down the client. Makes not really sense for me to reboot the client when the user wants to go home ;)
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| 14:36 | <Guest77238> <alkisg> that was my goal i just dont think it is happening...if i open firefox it opens it through the server
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> Guest77238: if you open a terminal and run `hostname`, do you see ltsp123 or server there?
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| 14:37 | This will tell you if things run locally or on the server
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| 14:37 | So, what do you see? ltsp123?
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| 14:37 | <Guest77238> ltsp230
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> Now run `firefox` in that terminal
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| 14:37 | It will run locally
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| 14:38 | Why do you think it runs from the server?
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| 14:38 | <Guest77238> ok? why is there so much lag?
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> Because pis are really really lame computers that should never be used as desktop pcs
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| 14:39 | !cheap-client
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| 14:39 | <ltsp`> cheap-client: http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_343636.html
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> Take something like that ^ instead, less money, and runs 10 times faster than rpi3
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| 14:41 | <Guest77238> ok thanks. will i have better luck with thin client?
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> rpi as thin client?
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| 14:42 | <Guest77238> ya instead of using it as a fet
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| 14:42 | fat
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> It depends on how many clients, what server, network speed etc
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| 14:43 | In general, we don't recommend thin clients anymore
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| 14:43 | Especially for tasks like web browsing etc
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| 14:43 | <Guest77238> 4 clients hooked up a a 48 port switch
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> Server cpu and ram?
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| 14:43 | <Guest77238> server is amd 6 core 16 gigs of ram
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> It should work a bit better then, yes, except for videos
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| 14:44 | !flash
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| 14:44 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> 2.5 gbps bandwidth per client is surely unfeasible
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| 14:45 | <Guest77238> ok thanks again will be back
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> bb
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| 14:45 | Please throw away the rpis :D
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| 14:45 | Then, be back :D
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| 14:48 | <rlyshw> isn't youtube mostly dumping flash? I guess that still doesn't really change the bandwidth requirement too much
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> rlyshw: it's not a problem with flash, all screen updates have that issue, even if it's just simple window scrolling
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| 14:56 | That's why ltsp 6 will switch to fat clients by default
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| 14:57 | Fat clients transfer disk data from the network, which is a whole less than monitor data
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| 15:08 | <rlyshw> Yeah, makes sense
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| 15:08 | btw, I'm getting an error with ltsp-build-client...
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| 15:09 | "The following packages have unmet dependencies:"
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| 15:09 | then it lists things, "dh-python : Depends: python3:any (>=3.#.#)"
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| 15:10 | <rlyshw> I'm trying to install a xenial chroot
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| 15:10 | Also says things like Depends: dbus but it is not going to be installed
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| 15:11 | It seems like output from apt-get but I don't recognize it not auto-resolving deps. Is there some module I can change in the Ubuntu plugins to fix it?
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| 15:11 | Otherwise I just ltsp-chroot in and do it manually, but then I'm not sure how to generate the initramfs.. The /boot/ dir in the chroot remains empty
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> ltsp-build-client is getting removed in ltsp6 too :D
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| 15:35 | rlyshw: pastebin the chroot /etc/apt/sources.list...
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| 16:54 | <rlyshw> alkisg: removing ltsp-build-client? Are there docs on ltsp6 somewhere?
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| 16:56 | http://pastebin.com/xCf91TfK
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| 17:50 | <rlyshw> looks like this is most likely an issue in the debootstrap thing again... ugh
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> rlyshw: only some draft plans for ltsp6, it's not developed yet
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| 18:43 | rlyshw: ports.ubuntu.com? is that armhf?
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| 18:43 | If you're trying to build cross-distro, you'll need some weird syntax...
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| 18:43 | If it's just cross-arch, it's easier
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| 18:44 | About the /boot dir being empty, that would mean ltsp-build-client didn't finish and no kernel was installed
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| 18:45 | I don't think you should work upon that chroot; better re-create it
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| 19:07 | <rlyshw> yeah, running builds trying to figure out what's going wrong
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| 19:26 | <alkisg> rlyshw: ok if you need help give more info
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| 19:30 | <rlyshw> It looks like the version of lsb-base in the trusty repos 4.1+Debian11ubuntu6 is too old. ltsp-client-core requires (>=)4.1+Debian11ubuntu6
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| 19:30 | so now instead of trying cross-dist stuff I'm just going to upgrade the dist on the server
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| 19:57 | <alkisg> rlyshw: building xenial from trusty should be easy, it's not really cross distro like e.g. building ubuntu from debian
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| 19:57 | The dependencies of packages shouldn't be broken when on the same distro (chroot), so I can't believe that ltsp-client-core depends on a newer lsb-base than what's offered by the distro
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| 19:58 | But if you're using "ports.ubuntu.com", that's something broken in your setup
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| 19:58 | (unless you use armhf and didn't say so yet)
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| 19:59 | ltsp-client-core in trusty depends on lsb-base without version number, see http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/ltsp-client-core
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| 21:10 | <eddytv> Is there a way to rename NICs on LTSP clients? The normal /etc/udev/rules.d/10-network.rules approach doesn't seem applicable.
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> eddytv: why do you want to or need to do that?
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| 23:01 | <eddytv> I am trying to use LTSP on systems that have multiple NICs, and I want to control the naming of the interfaces
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| 23:04 | <vagrantc> why do you want or need to control the naming of the interfaces?
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| 23:05 | <eddytv> Trying to match the configuration of existing systems that have existing udev rules that rename the interfaces for consistency and to avoid "re-training"
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| 23:06 | <vagrantc> i just don't understand why the interface name would matter in an LTSP setup
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| 23:06 | what needs to be retrained?
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| 23:07 | if i understand what problem you're actually trying to solve, it'll be easier to resolve the issue
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| 23:07 | because renaming interfaces on your rootfs is likely to be problematic, and probably not the best way forward...
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| 23:07 | <eddytv> The users of the existing non-LTSP systems. I'm trying to setup LTSP as a proof-of-concept for these systems, but unless the interface names can match the "traditional boot from disk" systems, it will probably be a no-go.
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| 23:08 | <vagrantc> what sort of things are they doing that require knowing the name of the interface?
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| 23:10 | <eddytv> Network training. Setting up virtual interfaces, routes, iptables, etc.
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| 23:10 | <vagrantc> basically, this is a shoot yourself in the foot situation you're asking for, so really need to know why you need it to be the way you're asking
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| 23:11 | managing network interfaces on devices used for your rootfs is a *bad* idea.
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| 23:16 | <eddytv> The existing training materials already reference the NICs using names that are set via udev.d rules. The systems currently use "traditional" disk-based installs. I'm trying to see if it is possible to have them boot from an LTSP server and end up in the same state, so the benefit is that when they are rebooted, they come up in a "known good" state.
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| 23:16 | <vagrantc> you might try one of the LTSP on disk approaches
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| 23:17 | but that would involve installing to all the machines
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| 23:17 | but you could reset to a known state with it
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| 23:17 | <eddytv> That's what I'm trying to avoid; it would be a benefit to be able to remove the storage devices from the machines.
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| 23:18 | <vagrantc> another approach would be to load the rootfs into ram, then you wouldn't rely on having the boot interface once it's booted
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| 23:18 | you'd still have to figure out how to rename the interfaces
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| 23:19 | but you don't want to rename the interface that the rootfs is running off of in a typical LTSP environment
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| 23:19 | it's essentially like unplugging the disk while the OS is running...
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| 23:19 | <eddytv> I've been futzing around and it seems that if I put the udev rules in /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/udev/rules.d and rebuild the initrd with ltsp-chroot update-initramfs -c and update the image, it works!
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| 23:20 | <vagrantc> if the initramfs renames the interface early enough in the process, i guess it might work
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| 23:21 | good luck, in any case
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| 23:21 | if your install works out for you, consider adding it:
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| 23:21 | !worldmap | echo eddytv
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| 23:21 | <ltsp`> eddytv worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
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| 23:21 | <vagrantc> it would be a novel use of LTSP
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| 23:22 | <eddytv> Sure thing. I'll continue to do some testing and if the proof-of-concept works out, will definitely add it. Thanks!
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