IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 January 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:21 | <Ryan52> warren, http://slexy.org/raw/s21Y6ZW5uI
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| 00:22 | warren, since I can't look at the archives of anything, which lists should I actually sign up for? (I really don't want to add to my daily email PITA ... I already get more than a hundred emails a day, which is rediculous..)
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| 00:22 | * Ryan52 is already on fedora-announce-list, and has been for a while.. | |
| 00:24 | <warren> Ryan52: fedora-devel-announce is the minimum
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| 00:24 | Ryan52: fedora-devel-list is good if you want to follow the main discussions
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| 00:24 | Ryan52: do you do server side filtering of your mail into folders?
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| 00:25 | <Ryan52> no. I do use colors in mutt, and I look at my INBOX via regex.
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| 00:26 | and it works well enough for me for now...once I get a sane email provider (that I can use real filtering on...not gmail's crap), I'll use folders and stuff.
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| 00:27 | so what does "main discussions" mean?
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| 00:29 | does that include useless trolling about a stupid joke posted to an announcement list? if so, then no, I'm already on Debian's equivelant, which is enough.
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| 00:29 | <warren> Ryan52: most everything that matters
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| 00:29 | Ryan52: fedora-devel-announce has only important dev announcements, and fedora-devel-list is dev only discussion... but then there's huge flamewar threads about stupid things that nobody cares about.
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| 00:30 | I typically just set those entire threads to ignore, then it is quite readable.
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| 00:30 | <Ryan52> okay, I'll subscribe...I can always unsubscribe.
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| 00:30 | <warren> Ryan52: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ then there's tiny lists here
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| 00:32 | ball has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:46 | <warren> Ryan52: if you have ltsp-trunk in one place, and /cvs/pkgs/ltsp checked out in a different directory...
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| 00:46 | Ryan52: ln -s /path/to/ltsp/F-10/ltsp.spec /path/to/ltsp-trunk/ltsp.spec
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| 00:46 | Ryan52: cd /path/to/ltsp-trunk/
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| 00:47 | Ryan52: edit ltsp.spec to match the Version of release.conf
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| 00:47 | Ryan52: mkdst rpm
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| 00:47 | Ryan52: koji build --scratch dist-f10 ltsp-5.1.52-2.20090128.01.fc10.src.rpm
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| 00:48 | Ryan52: really quick unofficial builds of whatever is in the ltsp-trunk directory (even uncommitted)
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| 00:48 | <Ryan52> why would I use koji for that?
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| 00:49 | <warren> Ryan52: you can do test builds of a .src.rpm against all archs simultaneously
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| 00:49 | <Ryan52> ah, cool.
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| 00:49 | ugh. koji has no man page :(
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| 00:49 | <warren> then go to http://koji.fedoraproject.org/scratch/username/
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| 00:49 | Ryan52: you don't normally use the koji command directly, it is wrapped by other commands
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| 00:49 | <Ryan52> ah.
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| 00:51 | <warren> Ryan52: anyhow, if the build succeeds you can go to that URL to grab it
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| 00:51 | Ryan52: it it fails, koji gave you a URL to browse logs
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| 00:52 | <Ryan52> make tag && make build
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| 00:52 | is that all you have to do to get a package uploaded to Fedora itself?
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| 00:52 | <warren> yes
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| 00:52 | it builds whatever is tagged
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| 00:53 | <Ryan52> wow, that's really nice.
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| 00:53 | <warren> Ryan52: don't do that yet... will train you more tomorrow.
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| 00:53 | <Ryan52> I know.
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| 00:53 | <warren> Ryan52: you don't even have to remain online after make build. the server received the command. you're only watching output
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| 00:53 | shamino has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:54 | <Ryan52> nice
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| 00:55 | <warren> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/scratch/wtogami/ m
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| 00:55 | my latest scratch build succeeded
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| 00:55 | they are cleaned up after a week or so
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| 00:57 | Ryan52: how is submitting builds to debian done?
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| 00:59 | <Ryan52> dch -r && debuild -S -sa && cd .. && cowbuilder --build PACKAGE_VERSION.dsc && debsign /var/cache/pbuilder/result/PACKAGE_VERSION_ARCH.changes && dput /var/cache/pbuilder/result/PACKAGE_VERSION_ARCH.changes
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| 00:59 | ball has quit IRC | |
| 00:59 | <Ryan52> :)
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| 01:00 | does some stuff, builds the package in a chroot, asks you for your gpg passphrase twice to sign it, and transfers it via ftp.
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| 01:02 | <warren> cowbuilder builds locally?
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| 01:02 | <Ryan52> yes, in a chroot.
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| 01:02 | <warren> We find it a little nutty to distribute packages that you built yourself
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| 01:02 | Ryan52: why is it called cow?
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| 01:02 | <Ryan52> copy on right
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| 01:02 | <warren> copy on write?
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| 01:02 | oh
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| 01:02 | <Ryan52> ya, that one :p
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| 01:03 | that way one evil build doesn't muck up your clean chroot.
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| 01:11 | <warren> how does it do copy on write?
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| 01:11 | aufs?
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| 01:12 | Ryan52: our buildroots are built from scratch from RPMS using the entire BuildRequires chain for every package build.
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| 01:18 | Ryan52: hmm, I need to do a major release with basically ldm-2.0.30 but I need one tiny fix. With the translation stuff incomplete I can't tag the current..
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| 01:18 | I might just patch the 2.0.30 to release
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| 01:18 | <Ryan52> I have no clue what it does for the copy on write.
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| 01:19 | * warren waiting for SSD's to drop another 30% in price before buying.... | |
| 01:21 | <Ryan52> warren, ya, sorry.
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| 01:21 | <warren> Ryan52: I appreciate that you're working on that, it was always ugly
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| 01:22 | <Ryan52> doesn't fedora have some form of a base system? or do you have to put *everything* in BuildRequires? bash, coreutils, etc too?
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| 01:23 | <warren> Ryan52: rpmdevtools Requires the base system that you can assume will be installed in the chroot
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| 01:23 | Ryan52: stuff like coreutils and gcc are assumed, but autotools are not
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| 01:24 | <Ryan52> ah. ok. the cowbuilder chroots are just the base system (base, coreutils, etc) plus build-essential (dpkg-dev, make, gcc, etc)
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| 01:24 | do you actually have to put rpmdevtools in BuildRequires or is it assumed to be there?
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| 01:25 | nevermind, figured it out myself :p
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| 01:25 | <warren> crap, it doesn't seem to be working with s/file/sha1sum/
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| 01:26 | hmm
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| 01:36 | <warren> hmm
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| 01:36 | gettext.sh
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| 01:37 | where does that come from?
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| 01:37 | <Ryan52> gettext? :)
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| 01:38 | $ dpkg -S `which gettext.sh`
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| 01:38 | gettext-base: /usr/bin/gettext.sh
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| 01:39 | <warren> something broke ldm on my system
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| 01:39 | related to those gettext changes
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| 01:39 | +export TEXTDOMAINDIR=/usr/share/locale
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| 01:39 | +. gettext.sh
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| 01:40 | <Ryan52> it runs ". gettext.sh"?
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| 01:40 | <warren> ugh
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| 01:40 | * Ryan52 wonders why.. | |
| 01:40 | <warren> that adds another 5MB to the package
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| 01:40 | oh wait
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| 01:40 | no
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| 01:40 | more than 5MB to chroot
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| 01:41 | Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC | |
| 01:41 | <warren> Ryan52: I think stgraber might have been confused. There has to be a way to get strings out in a shell script without installing gettext.
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| 01:42 | gettext is used in development, not runtime
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| 01:42 | <Ryan52> really?
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| 01:42 | <warren> yes
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| 01:42 | <Ryan52> not what I read, iirc.
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| 01:42 | <warren> my chroot doesn't have gettext
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| 01:42 | yet it can display translated stuff from .mo files
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| 01:42 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 01:43 | <Ryan52> and your chroot is bilingual?
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| 01:43 | oh.
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| 01:43 | <warren> yes
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| 01:43 | you use gettext to pull strings out of source to into .pot files
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| 01:43 | <Ryan52> then why do they call the C/python functions gettext?
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| 01:44 | that's gonna confuse people :)
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| 01:44 | <warren> Ryan52: look in fedora's initscripts, all the startup and shutdown messages can display translated
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| 01:44 | <Ryan52> warren: http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/gettext/Preparing-Shell-Scripts.html
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| 01:44 | <warren> Ryan52: with no gettext package installed
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| 01:44 | <Ryan52> the official docs agree with what stgraber did.
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| 01:44 | <warren> the gettext packageis huge
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| 01:45 | ok, well there is a better way to do this.
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| 01:45 | Ryan52: fedora's initscripts package contains .mo files and can display traslated boot messages, but no gettext needed.
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| 01:45 | Ryan52: rpm -ql initscripts
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| 01:46 | Ryan52: does debian's initscripts do something similar?
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| 01:47 | <Ryan52> echo "Error: argument '$1' not supported" >&2
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| 01:47 | log_action_msg "Will now restart"
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| 01:47 | that's Debians...
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| 01:47 | looks real i18nized...
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| 01:48 | action $"Stopping disk encryption for $dst" /sbin/cryptsetup remove "$dst"
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| 01:48 | <warren> yes, same thing here.
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| 01:48 | <Ryan52> where action is just doing: echo -n "$1 "
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| 01:48 | * Ryan52 wonders how that's i18nized. | |
| 01:48 | <warren> I'm not sure how the heck that works..
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| 01:48 | but it does translate here
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| 01:51 | <Ryan52> yay for insane black magic that does cool stuff! :)
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| 01:52 | gettext-base is: Priority: standard
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| 01:52 | in Debian, meaning that it's on most systems. (other than minimal chroots).
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| 01:52 | <warren> I am not installing that in my chroot only to translate a single shell script
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| 01:52 | it is 5MB here
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| 01:54 | Ryan52: hm... action seems to only colorize?
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| 01:55 | <Ryan52> yes, which is why I think that this boot process can't possibly be i18nized.
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| 01:55 | * warren boots in french mode... | |
| 01:56 | <Ryan52> . /etc/profile.d/lang.sh
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| 01:57 | looks relatedish.
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| 01:58 | but still nothing..
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| 01:58 | <warren> I just booted in french mode and everything was translated
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| 01:59 | * warren removes gettext just to be sure | |
| 02:00 | <warren> Ryan52: initscripts doesn't have the word gettext in it anywhere
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| 02:00 | <Ryan52> I know.
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| 02:01 | <warren> yes
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| 02:01 | removed gettext from chroot
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| 02:02 | and it is still translated
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| 02:02 | zirconiumks has quit IRC | |
| 02:02 | <warren> Ryan52: btw, l10nized is a better word
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| 02:02 | Ryan52: l10n localization
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| 02:02 | Ryan52: i18n refers to internationalization ... generally software stuff to support other languages that are not translation
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| 02:03 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 02:04 | already 4 emails on the devel list...geez.
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| 02:04 | <warren> you seriously need server side filtering into boxes
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| 02:05 | ok... this gettext thing happened after 2.0.30, so I can still release with ldm-2.0.30 and the next ltsp tag
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| 02:05 | sleep....
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| 02:22 | polytan has joined #ltsp | |
| 02:23 | <polytan> hi
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| 02:23 | I'm in trouble with ltsp and ubuntu
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| 02:24 | I build a client image which runs very well on core 2 duo computers
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| 02:24 | (i386)
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| 02:25 | but on the computer I'm now working (pentium D), I have nothing after the splash screen displayingh a progression bar
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| 02:25 | and I have this error message ; "INFO: task khelper: 2031 blocked for more than 120 seconds.
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| 02:26 | <polytan> "echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/hung_task_timeout_secs" disable this message"
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| 02:26 | but I can do nothing :(
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| 02:27 | <Ryan52> warren, does fedora have equivalents to http://tinyurl.com/bckamp and http://tinyurl.com/b3phtf ?
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| 02:30 | <polytan> johnny, hi, are you here ?
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| 02:31 | <johnny> hi
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| 02:31 | maybe it's a bug..
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| 02:31 | why are you asking for me?
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| 02:36 | <polytan> johnny, I'm asking nithing to you about that
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| 02:37 | I've stopped to use gentoo to do ltsp
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| 02:37 | it is too young for me
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| 02:37 | but I've solved a few bugs and I think you will be interested
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| 02:52 | shrek has joined #ltsp | |
| 02:54 | <shrek> Hi! Anyone one on LTSP 5 modified for NFS on Ubuntu 8.10?
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| 02:54 | facing an issue with GDM
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| 03:11 | +o
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| 03:12 | <Ryan52> shrek, you mean ldm, right?
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| 03:12 | shrek, anyway, you have a better chance of getting help if you say what your problem actually is.
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| 03:15 | chrisinajar has quit IRC | |
| 03:15 | <shrek> no
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| 03:15 | sure
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| 03:15 | <warren> Ryan52: dude you really should sleep
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| 03:15 | Ryan52: we're building something like that, it isn't ready yet
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| 03:15 | <shrek> sorry
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| 03:16 | actually i have a mixed environment
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| 03:16 | <warren> Ryan52: all that data is scattered but available now
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| 03:16 | <shrek> 2 chroots
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| 03:16 | one i386 for thin-clients and one fati386 for fat-clients
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| 03:17 | <Ryan52> warren, ok.
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| 03:17 | <warren> Ryan52: dude, sleep
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| 03:17 | <shrek> Ryan52: one important thing - both of them have been moved out of /opt onto /home and sym-linked back onto /opt
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| 03:18 | <Ryan52> warren, I know, I'm gonna go to sleep soon.
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| 03:19 | <shrek> have followed https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients (workstation plugin and not the fatclient one) to set it up
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| 03:19 | <polytan> Is it serious a "request_module: runaway loop modprobe binfmt-464c" ?
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| 03:20 | <shrek> i386 works fine for thin-clients with nbd
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| 03:20 | but fati386 doesn't
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| 03:20 | hence i moved to nfs for fati386
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| 03:20 | now all goes fine until it tries to start gdm where is goes bust
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| 03:22 | it gives the following error - Server Authorization directory (daemon/ServerAuthDir ) is set to /var/lib/gdm but is not owned by user 108 and group 117.
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| 03:22 | 108 and 117 are the uid and gid of gdm
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| 03:22 | in the base as well as the chroot system
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| 03:23 | "/var/lib/gdm" is also owned by gdm:gdm
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| 03:23 | don't know where to go from here
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| 03:38 | <polytan> I've rebuild the image and it boots
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| 03:38 | yep ;)
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| 04:15 | <shrek> is there a max size that the nbd image should be within?
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| 04:16 | my fat-client image has grown to over 1 GB and while trying to boot i get an error " Gave up waiting for root device....."
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| 04:28 | <polytan> can we put the "rrot-path" option in pxelinux.cfg/default instead of dhcp.conf ?
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| 04:28 | like APPEND root-path=/opt/ltsp/i386 ?
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| 04:41 | <Appiah> may I ask why you need to move it from default to dhcp.conf?
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| 04:44 | <polytan> because on my sever, I don't only want to boot ubuntu and ltsp
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| 04:44 | I have to deal with i386, amd64, centos, opensolaris and others
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| 04:44 | <alkisg> polytan: I thought about that some weeks ago, it would be very cool. A few lines in the initscipts would need to be modified to support it. I'd be happy to do it if the developers would be willing to consider including it upstream.
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| 04:44 | <polytan> and the argument root-parth=/opt/ltsp/i386 is a big limitation
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| 04:45 | alkisg, actually, I just removed the line "root-path" from the dhcp and it runs
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| 04:45 | <Appiah> multiply images on tftpserver
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| 04:45 | <polytan> modifying the "default" it works perfectly
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| 04:45 | <Appiah> think there was a big thread on it on the mailinglist
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| 04:46 | <alkisg> root-path is for nfs. I'd like to also be able to pass the boot-filename, because clients use it to work out the tftp path for lts.conf.
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| 04:46 | <polytan> http://pastebin.com/f5993f2af
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| 04:47 | and http://pastebin.com/f9387620
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| 04:48 | <alkisg> Can you use the second one with nfs clients?
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| 04:48 | <polytan> I just have to check for amd64 machines if it works
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| 04:48 | I will have 64bits machines tomorow
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| 04:48 | alkisg, do you mean the "win" one or the "64" ?
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| 04:49 | <alkisg> Ah, this one: http://pastebin.com/f9387620
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| 04:49 | Does it work with e.g. debian clients, that use nfs?
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| 04:49 | (I mean debian server, of course! :) :) )
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| 04:49 | <polytan> I don't know why this will not work
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| 04:50 | it is quite generic options for dhcp, I believe :)
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| 04:50 | <alkisg> Because I think nfs uses root-path to locate the files
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| 04:50 | So if you don't specify root-path, they won't be able to boot
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| 04:50 | <polytan> don't you think it is in the initrd ?
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| 04:50 | I'm nearly sure that we can specify the nfs option using tftp and not dhcp
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| 04:50 | <alkisg> root-path? I don't think it's hardcoded...
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| 04:51 | <polytan> | |
| 04:51 | who gives the root-path parameter ?
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| 04:51 | <alkisg> But with what distro?
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| 04:51 | <polytan> I don't really know I have to admit ...
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| 04:51 | I'm on ubuntu
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| 04:51 | <alkisg> Ubuntu doesn't use it at all, unless you switch from nbd to nfs
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| 04:52 | For example, now (=with IPAPPEND 3) your ubuntu clients won't be able to get lts.conf, because they don't know the path (they usually get it from boot-filename)
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| 04:53 | <polytan> ok
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| 04:54 | <alkisg> So in order to use IPAPPEND 3 and be able to use an lts.conf file, you either have to (1) put it in /var/lib/tftpboot/, or (2) patch the initscripts
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| 04:54 | (ltsp_nbd, specifically)
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| 05:10 | <kalib> Hi guys... My ltsp is working fine.. But I'm having a problem with serial mouses on the stations. What can I do?
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> kalib, distro?
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| 05:20 | <kalib> edubuntu
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| 05:21 | ubuntu 8.10 + edubuntu patch
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> Did you declare them as serial in lts.conf ?
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| 05:21 | At least in 7.10 they weren't autodetected...
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| 05:22 | I changed mice after that, I don't know if that's still the case.
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| 05:22 | !lts.conf
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| 05:22 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "lts.conf" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
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| 05:26 | <kalib> alkisg, [labinfo2-19]
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| 05:26 | X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "Microsoft"
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| 05:26 | X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/ttyS0"
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| 05:26 | X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = 400
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| 05:26 | X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 2
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| 05:26 | X_MOUSE_EMULATE3BTN = Y
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| 05:27 | <alkisg> Ah, and it still doesn't work? Are you sure that the clients does indeed get the settings from lts.conf ?
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| 05:27 | E.g. you could run getltscfg -a from a terminal running locally on the client
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| 05:28 | <kalib> alkisg, I'm not sure if they're getting the conf file.. I'll try your command...
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| 05:28 | ;]
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| 05:28 | <alkisg> (Also, I think that my mice didn't work with the "Microsoft" protocol, but I can't remember if I left it empty or if I specified "Logitech")
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| 05:29 | <kalib> good tip.. I'll try it
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| 05:29 | ;]
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| 05:30 | just a minute..
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| 05:30 | <Guaraldo> kalib: :-/
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| 05:31 | <kalib> Guaraldo, o.O ?
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| 05:31 | <Guaraldo> kalib: :-D
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| 05:43 | <redspike> Hi all, i have problems with the fonts on my clients, some terminal applications will not start, and i have read that i need to add :unscale in the font apth in xorg.conf on 75 and 100dpi fonts, where i add that so the clients gets that settings?
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| 06:10 | <kalib> alkisg, alkisg still there?
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> yeap
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| 06:10 | <kalib> When I tried to run your command... I got a message asking me to install ltsp-client-core
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| 06:11 | <alkisg> kalib: ah, you should logon to the client *locally* to issue this command.
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| 06:12 | This is a little difficult, you have to e.g. put SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf or unlock the root account in the chroot...
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| 06:13 | <alkisg> There's a how-to in the ubuntu-wiki to see how to run commands locally
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| 06:13 | <kalib> I c.. let me try. ;]
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| 06:14 | but... I the terminal is not reading the lts.conf, why should I put this in lts.conf? o.O
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| 06:14 | but... If the terminal is not reading the lts.conf, why should I put this in lts.conf? o.O
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| 06:14 | <alkisg> But you'll make sure that they don't! :)
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| 06:14 | ...so try the second option, to unlock the root account: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
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| 06:21 | <kalib> I'll check the link
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| 06:23 | <chupacabra> anybody awake?
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| 06:27 | hanthana_ is now known as hanthana | |
| 06:44 | <Appiah> alot awake
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| 06:44 | alot of people are*
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| 06:44 | O_o
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| 06:50 | <chupacabra> could someone try to hit topstexas.com a client that seems to have lost dsl.
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| 06:50 | I'm trying to not have to go there right away.
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| 06:52 | <laga> doesnt load here
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| 06:52 | <chupacabra> dern. thanks.
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| 06:53 | rules out my network.
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| 06:53 | I'm going in....
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| 07:21 | <polytan> johnny, do you want my modifications ?
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| 08:05 | <alkisg> Can someone please clarify something for me? Would it be possible for a (specifically designed for this) application to connect and display video to e.g. 10 different X servers simultaneously? Or I didn't understand at all how X works? :)
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| 08:11 | <Gadi_eeepc> alkisg: I believe you would need an Xproxy (like VNC)
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| 08:12 | <ogra> VLC can work in a broadcast mode afaik
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> Gadi_eeepc: not to display the same thing, just to be able to connect to more than 1 server
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| 08:12 | <Gadi_eeepc> a single Xclient can connect to only one Xserver or Xproxy
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| 08:13 | in the case of VLC, the VLC clients eaach connect to an Xserver
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| 08:13 | and each receive streams from the VLC server
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| 08:13 | but, the VLC client is the Xclient
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| 08:14 | make sense?
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| 08:14 | <alkisg> So a C program can't declare more than one "Xclient structures/callback functions/whatever" and be an Xclient for more than one server, right? :(
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| 08:14 | Pitty, it would be awesome if it could
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| 08:14 | <Gadi_eeepc> no, but it can connect to seveeral client apps each of which connects to a different Xserver
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| 08:15 | <alkisg> Ah, you're right. That won't be hard!
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| 08:15 | <Gadi_eeepc> or it could connect to a single Xproxy that connects to multiple Xservers
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| 08:15 | so, you can handle it in the app or in the X environment
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| 08:15 | up to you
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| 08:16 | <alkisg> I'm not sure I got the Xproxy thing, how can an Xproxy connect to multiple Xservers? (ok - let me read up on "Xproxy" and I'll ask again if I have any questions)! Thanks!!!
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| 08:17 | <Gadi_eeepc> alkisg: have you used VNC before?
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| 08:17 | <alkisg> Yes, sure
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| 08:17 | <Gadi_eeepc> so, you can share the same Xproxy amongst multiple Xserver connections
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| 08:17 | because the vncviewer (Xclient to the Xserver) connects to the Xproxy running on the server
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| 08:18 | and the Xproxy allow for multiple concurrent connections
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| 08:18 | so, it can reflect the session to many viewers at once
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| 08:18 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, that's the opposite of what I was looking for.
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| 08:18 | Gadi_eeepc: a last question, please. If I copy the xauthority file to the server, is it possible to use it to run an application on the server and display the output to the client? (ignore any security concerns, I just want to see if I got this right)
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| 08:18 | (the xauthority from a TC, I mean)
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| 08:19 | <Gadi_eeepc> alkisg: it should be on the server already in ~/.Xauthority
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> Really? I thought that was local to the client
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| 08:19 | <Gadi_eeepc> hmm...
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| 08:19 | I think it should bee there
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| 08:19 | *be
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> I mean this: User A sits on client B. User C sits on server D. Can it use the xauthority of user A to display an application in the client B?
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| 08:20 | <Gadi_eeepc> ah
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| 08:20 | well, you can accept remote connections with xhost
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> OK, so it can be done, but maybe the xauthority file from user A is useless to the user C, got it. :)
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| 08:21 | Thanks a lot, Gadi!
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| 08:21 | <Gadi_eeepc> right xhost can be used to control access to the Xdisplay
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| 08:22 | without transferring files
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| 08:22 | you can allow access from hostname/user
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| 08:22 | * alkisg needs to think if he can use this in a secure manner, for the student to display arbitrary apps on the TCs.. | |
| 08:22 | <alkisg> *teacher
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| 08:23 | <Gadi_eeepc> you should be able to allow just the teacher to write to any display
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| 08:23 | something like: xhost +teacher
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| 08:23 | where teacher is the teacher's username
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> Perfect!!!
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| 08:23 | <Gadi_eeepc> that command should run in every user session
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| 08:23 | upon login
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Not in the chroot, one time for all clients?
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| 08:24 | <Gadi_eeepc> I would do it on the server, so you can change it easily
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> OK
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| 08:24 | <Gadi_eeepc> Xclients are network transparent, so you can run xhost from either side
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> wow... I wouln't have figured this out
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| 08:26 | <Gadi_eeepc> when I started my first job out of school, I worked on an HPUX machine - my mentor had me type "xhost +" in a terminal window. When I got back from getting some coffee, he had run a screensaver that melted my display
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| 08:26 | :P
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| 08:26 | be careful with X access
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| 08:26 | :)
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> Heh!! lol!
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| 08:27 | OK, it's strictly on local network, with 10-12 year old students knowing only a little openoffice... :)
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| 08:27 | I don't expect to see any screens melting!
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| 08:50 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 10:18 | <polytan> how to have a "local" graphical term ?
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| 10:21 | evilx has joined #LTSP | |
| 10:22 | <sbalneav> polytan: You mean, launch an X term on the local terminal?
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| 10:23 | <polytan> yes
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| 10:23 | <sbalneav> Are you wanting it launched as the user currently logged in? If so, you'll want localapps.
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| 10:24 | <polytan> ok
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| 10:33 | <polytan> good bye
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| 10:50 | <mistik1> morning #ltsp
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| 10:51 | <warren> stgraber: we can fully translate those scripts without needing to pull in gettext into the client chroot
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| 10:51 | stgraber: gettext is ONLY needed for building
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| 10:52 | <ogra> we do translate ltsp-build-client already
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| 10:52 | doing that with the scripts should just be a copy/paste job from there
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| 10:55 | likuidkewl is now known as dmaran | |
| 10:56 | <dmaran> Real quick we are looking to run a script at login and logoff any views on the "best place" for it to be called from in ltsp5 Ubx64
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| 10:57 | <warren> stgraber: I figured it out, it is bash itself doing localization without gettext involved, pulling from .mo files based upon LANG and TEXTDOMAIN
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| 10:59 | <warren> ogra: copy/paste job from where?
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| 10:59 | ogra: is that because dash doesn't support the native localization like bash?
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| 10:59 | <ogra> warren, ??
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| 11:00 | <warren> ogra: how do you translate your ubuntu bootup messages?
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| 11:00 | <ogra> thats been added by vagrant years ago
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| 11:00 | ltsp-build-client never runs under dash ... unless an admin creates a script that calls it or so
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| 11:01 | <warren> oh
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| 11:01 | <sbalneav> dmaran: at logon, usually in the Xsession chain.
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| 11:01 | <warren> stgraber: I think we should write a ldm-dialog function that extracts a translated string instead of pull in 5MB of extra dependencies to get it from a shell script.
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| 11:01 | <sbalneav> dmaran: /etc/X11/Xsession.d or whatever your host is.
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| 11:01 | <warren> ogra: does dash support native localization?
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| 11:02 | <ogra> warren, user shells are still bash ... only /bin/sh points to dash
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| 11:02 | <sbalneav> logoff, there's currently no good way to do that that I know of.
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| 11:02 | <ogra> warren, so only if you are not logged in dash will be used (i.e. for system scripts)
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| 11:03 | else your environment has SHELL=/bin/bash
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| 11:05 | <cyberorg> warren, were you able to fix the hang on shutdown? i get the same here :(
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| 11:05 | <warren> cyberorg: with nbd?
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| 11:06 | cyberorg: I talked with our OS people, they said, "Stop using nbd" =(
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| 11:07 | <cyberorg> i get it with both nfs and nbd
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| 11:08 | <warren> cyberorg: oh, nfs is fine here
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| 11:08 | cyberorg: only nbd
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| 11:09 | <cyberorg> i am thinking of patching greeter to call custom shutdown and restart script, that closes most stuff normally and then call poweroff -fp
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| 11:09 | bypassing the systems init scripts that is hanging
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| 11:10 | off-kalib is now known as kalib | |
| 11:12 | <warren> why not write a replacement shutdown init script?
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| 11:13 | <ogra> just dont call the nbd scrip
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| 11:13 | t
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| 11:13 | <cyberorg> ogra, i removed all the K scripts the client still hangs
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| 11:14 | we are still on sysvinit btw :)
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| 11:14 | <ogra> my initial idea was to have RC0_WHITELIST and RC6_WHITELIST additionally to the other RC whitelists
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| 11:14 | what do you see on screen if the client hangs ?
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| 11:15 | <cyberorg> ogra, one of the init scripts with done at the end
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| 11:15 | <warren> cyberorg: I think I'm just abandoning nbd
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| 11:15 | <ogra> no "system halted" message ?
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| 11:15 | <cyberorg> there wouldnt be anything once syslog is shutdown
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| 11:15 | ogra, no
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| 11:15 | <warren> cyberorg: there are other problems, like 2.6.29 kernel is totally incompatible
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| 11:16 | <ogra> cyberorg, then th kernel never recieved the shutdown command
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| 11:17 | warren, to what ?
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| 11:17 | <warren> cyberorg: squashfs incompatible with any released version of mksquashfs
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| 11:17 | oops
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| 11:18 | ogra: ^^
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| 11:18 | <ogra> ah
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| 11:18 | yeah, you will likely need a new version
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| 11:18 | which doesnt really bother me in ubuntu
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| 11:19 | (2.6.29 is still one release ahead ... 9.04 will use .28)
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| 11:19 | <warren> cyberorg: hangs on every client?
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| 11:19 | cyberorg: curious that it hangs on nfs, that means you are not having the same issue as me
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| 11:20 | <cyberorg> warren, on the laptop i am testing, have to try one more
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| 11:25 | * ogra sighs about evdev ... | |
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| 11:26 | <mistik1> Hey guys, can i ask your opinions on something as you understand it...
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| 11:27 | Is GPL v3 incompatible with GPL v2 ?
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| 11:27 | This is not a legal request just asking an opinion of friends
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| 11:27 | <dmaran> sbalneav: what about using /etc/gdm/WhatEver or is this broken in LTSP
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| 11:27 | <ogra> dmaran, ltsp doesnt use gdm at all
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| 11:28 | <dmaran> crap forgot about that
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| 11:29 | <dmaran> @ogra: anything comparable in ldm?
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| 11:29 | <ogra> only in very recent upstream
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| 11:29 | <dmaran> ugh
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| 11:29 | <ogra> so ubuntu or fedora development releases should have it
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| 11:30 | <dmaran> This is for a lts box, so not really an option
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| 11:31 | <sbalneav> dmaran: I guess we could better help you if we knew what you were wanting to run. Perhaps there's a better/other way of doing it?>
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| 11:32 | <dmaran> The idea is to run asimple rsync at logon/out
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| 11:32 | no biggie I though
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| 11:32 | t
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| 11:38 | <sbalneav> This is for what? Updating a remote home drive or something?
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| 11:38 | perhaps something in .logout in the users' home dir?
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| 11:39 | Certainly, the /etc/X11/Xsession.d can be used for the rsync at login.
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| 11:39 | <dmaran> sbalneav: this is fired before the desktop loads correct?
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| 11:39 | <sbalneav> (make sure you rsync ... || true in the script, as Xsession scripts are usually .'d
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| 11:40 | dmaran: Should be.
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| 11:40 | <dmaran> Ok
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| 12:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> what version did the X_VIRTUAL and X_RANDR_MODE_0 release in?
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| 12:03 | err version of ltsp for F10
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| 12:04 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ltsp/
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| 12:04 | _UsUrPeR_: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ldm/
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| 12:04 | sbalneav: ogra: stgraber: I want to tag ltsp-trunk
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| 12:05 | <sbalneav> fine by me
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| 12:06 | <ogra> sure sure ...
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| 12:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, so I have updated to 5.1.51 in F10. It doesn't seem like the "X_VIRTUAL" command is working properly. X_VIRTUAL = "3360 1050" should work, correct?
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| 12:41 | <stgraber> warren: a sec, just checking if I have something to push
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| 12:48 | <stgraber> well, looks like you released anyway :)
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| 12:56 | <din_os> exo ena problimataki
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| 12:56 | se ena kainourio mixanima, dokimazo ton client
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| 12:57 | den 8elw dhcp opote me to config orizo mono to next-server, filename kai root-path
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| 12:57 | kanw ena autoboot meta
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| 12:58 | kai parolo pou katebazei ton kernel otan ton trexei mou dinei stoixeia
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| 12:58 | <Gadi_eeepc> _UsUrPeR_: check the xorg log file and /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf on the client
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| 12:58 | <din_os> IP: 192.168.2.5:192.168.2.1: ....etc
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| 12:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi_eeepc: k. How do you like the eeepc?
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| 12:58 | <din_os> to proto ip to pairnei swsta apo ton router tou spitiou
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| 12:59 | <Gadi_eeepc> love it - especially when I havee to juggle 2 kids on a snow day :P
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| 12:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> :)
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| 12:59 | <din_os> to deutero einai la8os einai to ip tou router enw 8a eprepe na einai to ip tou server (.2.20)
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| 12:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> I liked the size/battery life, but the keyboard/mouse was something that it seemed like I would have to get used to
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| 12:59 | * Gadi_eeepc has small fingers | |
| 13:00 | <_UsUrPeR_> heh
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| 13:00 | what language do you suppose that is?
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| 13:00 | <Gadi_eeepc> greek?
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| 13:00 | <laga> portuguese?
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| 13:00 | <_UsUrPeR_> I find it interesting that there's "8"s interspersed
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| 13:01 | <din_os> nomizo oti o kernel ksanapsaxnei to ip tou server kai enw to eixa katebasei kanonika me tftp, meta briskei to .2.1 anti gia .2.20
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| 13:02 | <laga> is he actually talking to someone?`
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| 13:02 | <din_os> oups sorry
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| 13:02 | ok here goes again :P
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| 13:03 | <Gadi_eeepc> din_os: the universal translator is broken - what language is that
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| 13:03 | ?
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| 13:03 | <din_os> i have a tiny problem
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| 13:04 | i load up the 8.04 client on a new system
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| 13:04 | i don't want dhcp, so i hit ctrl-b to set it manually
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| 13:05 | i use config to set next-server filename and root
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| 13:05 | then i hit autoboot
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| 13:05 | this works on other systems
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| 13:05 | but
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| 13:05 | <Gadi_eeepc> ctrl-b?
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| 13:06 | <din_os> ermm.. gPXE
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| 13:06 | <Gadi_eeepc> ah
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| 13:06 | <din_os> maybe i am in the wrong forum :)
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| 13:06 | but i think it's a kernel error and not gPXE so...
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| 13:07 | well never mind
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| 13:08 | <Gadi_eeepc> no, keep going
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| 13:08 | <din_os> sure?
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| 13:08 | ok
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| 13:08 | <Gadi_eeepc> sure - I dont know much about gPXE myself, but maybe someone here can help
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| 13:08 | <din_os> tftp finds the kernel allright
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| 13:09 | and after fetching it executes it
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| 13:09 | but then the kernel seems to display the IP details as : 192.168.2.5:192.168.2.1....etc
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| 13:10 | usually the first ip is the clients ip and the second the ltsp server's
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| 13:11 | <din_os> but it seems to forget the variable next-server and instead sets my home router's ip (.2.1) instead of .2.20
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| 13:12 | kalib has left #ltsp | |
| 13:12 | <din_os> of course the kernel get's stuck trying to find pxelinux.conf
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| 13:12 | that is all... :) sorry for the greek
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| 13:13 | <Gadi_eeepc> is it your router responding too the dhcp request?
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| 13:13 | *to
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| 13:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> din_os: is the client on the same network as two DHCP-providing servers? (i.e. router and gpxe server)
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| 13:15 | <din_os> Gadi: i think the router might be doing something, but it didn't stop the initial tftp fetch
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| 13:15 | UsUrPer: no only my phillips dsl router provides dhcp
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| 13:16 | <Gadi_eeepc> so, the router has the appropriate next-server statement?
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| 13:16 | <din_os> yup, it uses it to imgfetch
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| 13:16 | it does so successfully
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| 13:16 | imgexec also runs the fetched kernel
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| 13:17 | i guess it doesn't pass the next-server argument? ??
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| 13:17 | <Gadi_eeepc> well, next-server is sent down by dhcp, so if you ctrl-b and do not allow dhcp, that may be why
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| 13:17 | <din_os> nono
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| 13:17 | I set next-server myself
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| 13:17 | <Gadi_eeepc> on the client?
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| 13:17 | <din_os> the router has no capability to send this so it just sends an ip
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| 13:17 | <Gadi_eeepc> ah
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| 13:18 | <din_os> yup i use the set ip <> command
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| 13:18 | sorry
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| 13:18 | <Gadi_eeepc> hmm.. sounds like a gPXE issue
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| 13:18 | <din_os> the set next-server command
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| 13:18 | well if gPXE is meant to pass the next-server via args then yes
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| 13:19 | <Gadi_eeepc> yeah
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| 13:19 | <din_os> if not, then the kernel cannot get it right
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| 13:19 | <Gadi_eeepc> I dont know much about gPXE
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| 13:19 | you do add an nbdroot kernel arg to the pxeconfig, tho, right?
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| 13:20 | <din_os> hmm that i do not know, how do i check
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| 13:21 | '/var/..../pxelinux.conf/default ???
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| 13:23 | <Gadi_eeepc> yup
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| 13:23 | <din_os> i don't think that would matter, because it gets stuck trying to load pxelinux.conf
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| 13:23 | <ogra> right
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| 13:23 | it dies before
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| 13:23 | <warren> stgraber: go ahead and tag whenever you want
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| 13:24 | Ryan52: I'll wait to build this next release when you're back, so you can learn how to do it
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| 13:25 | <din_os> i don't know, maybe the router does something to it, everything works with different router with dhcp enabled and all that, or maybe the network card on the pc is too new??? who knows
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| 13:25 | * ogra curses Xorg upstream ... ALL LIARS ! | |
| 13:25 | <din_os> let me set a simpler problem
| |
| 13:26 | on the working clients the resolution is 1280x1024 or something
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| 13:26 | even though i set it 1024x768 on lts.cfg
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| 13:27 | what gives?
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| 13:29 | <Gadi_eeepc> you mean lts.conf
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| 13:29 | :)
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| 13:30 | <din_os> ah yes
| |
| 13:30 | <Gadi_eeepc> and: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 13:30 | <din_os> yup
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| 13:30 | <Gadi_eeepc> and, you have have a section like: [default]
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| 13:30 | before the config variables
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| 13:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren/gadi et all: building a new client w/LTSP 5.1.51 results in the error /etc/sysconfig/ltspdist: line 18: syntax error near unexpected token `)'
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| 13:31 | it turns out that line 18 is missing two semi-colons
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| 13:31 | <Gadi_eeepc> sounds like a fedora thing
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| 13:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> it appears to build a client properly once I put them in
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| 13:31 | <ogra> yeah, us a stable distro
| |
| 13:31 | *use
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| 13:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi_eeepc: correct: F10
| |
| 13:31 | * ogra hides quickly | |
| 13:31 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: huh
| |
| 13:32 | _UsUrPeR_: i'm trying
| |
| 13:32 | * Gadi_eeepc wishes ogra put a default lts.conf file in the tftpdir :P | |
| 13:32 | <din_os> Gadi yes, and i use X_MODE_0=1024x768 to set it
| |
| 13:32 | * Gadi_eeepc doesnt know how many folks don't know what format to use | |
| 13:33 | <din_os> but also enable configure_x=true, maybe that kind of confuses it?
| |
| 13:33 | <Gadi_eeepc> din_os: try adding: CONFIGURE_X=True
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| 13:33 | <ogra> Gadi_eeepc, ask the package maintainer to do that, not me :P
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| 13:33 | Gadi_eeepc, shouldnt be needed in hardy
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| 13:33 | <din_os> well, i'll try removing it?
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| 13:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> !pastebot
| |
| 13:33 | <ltspbot> _UsUrPeR_: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
| |
| 13:34 | <ogra> hardy was just gutsy with bugfixes and very few new features
| |
| 13:34 | so most gutsy settings apply there
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| 13:34 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "line 18 problem just above line fc11) missing ;;" (32 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/219
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| 13:35 | <ogra> ouch
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| 13:35 | <warren> stgraber: translations in shell scripts without .gettext.sh
| |
| 13:35 | 1. set TEXTDOMAIN to the text domain you're expecting to look up translations in.
| |
| 13:35 | 2. make sure your LANG locale is set before the shell runs
| |
| 13:35 | 3. prefix your echo text with $
| |
| 13:35 | <Gadi_eeepc> poor case statement
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| 13:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> lol
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| 13:36 | <Gadi_eeepc> din_os: if u want, paste your lts.conf
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| 13:36 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: oops
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| 13:36 | <Gadi_eeepc> any syntax error can render it useless
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| 13:36 | Gadi_eeepc: another test is to get a shell on the client and run: getltscfg -a
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| 13:37 | <ogra> ogra, yeah yeah ... the old talk to yourself syndrome
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| 13:37 | <warren> ogra: introspection
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| 13:37 | <din_os> thanks, i'll try some stuff myself first, i think it doesn't load it at all using tftp so i might just paste it in its original position and rebuild the image
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| 13:37 | <Gadi_eeepc> Gadi_eeepc: why is ogra talking to himself?
| |
| 13:38 | * Gadi_eeepc shrugs | |
| 13:38 | <ogra> ogra, because thats the last person that will still listen to him, even if nobody else does :)
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| 13:38 | <din_os> my case is kind of weird because ltsp server is not also dhcp but a dhcp exists on the network only to provide ips
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| 13:39 | i think many submodules try to find either tftp server or ltsp server thinking it is the dhcp server by default
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| 13:40 | <johnny> you don't want 2 dhcp servers
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| 13:40 | just 1
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| 13:40 | <din_os> i only have one
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| 13:40 | <johnny> oh
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| 13:40 | <din_os> but is not the ltsp
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| 13:40 | <johnny> we rarely make such assumptions
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| 13:40 | that the dhcp server== the ltsp server
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| 13:40 | many people run in the configuration you describe
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| 13:41 | <din_os> ok
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| 13:45 | <johnny> yay.. my box is coming back alive.. turns out i had a wrong egrep somehow
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| 13:58 | <kc8pxy> johnny: congrats :)
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| 14:02 | <warren> stgraber: you want to tag?
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| 14:04 | Ryan52: err, I have to go ahead with a build because I broke something important prior
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| 14:04 | stgraber: I'm tagging
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| 14:05 | stgraber: ogra: Gadi_eeepc: vagrantc: anything else for ltsp-trunk before taggin?
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| 14:06 | <ogra> not from me ... (though stgraber is more important here anyway)
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| 14:10 | <Gadi_eeepc> ditto
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| 14:10 | :D
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| 14:17 | <elisboa> where do I find information about serving via VNC?
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| 14:22 | <dmaran> @all any ideas why sometimes dhcp will work but not tftp 'read error time out' or dhcp will just sit there. This is a test setup I am trying to run and it not cooperating at all ltsp5 install Xubuntu 8.04.1 medium
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| 14:28 | <Gadi_eeepc> din_os: did you use the short form of the filename in gPXE?
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| 14:29 | din_os: Beware: If you want to use the next-server as the DHCP information contains, you must either use the short form (without tftp: prefix), or use three slashes in a row,
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| 14:30 | <din_os> now that is interesting
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| 14:30 | i'll try with three
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| 14:32 | takis_rs has left #ltsp | |
| 14:32 | <alkisg> Gadi_eeepc: din_os puts the information in gpxe manually, with the embedded config program. So in the second dhcp request done from ipconfig the initramfs, there isn't any boot filename field nor next-server field.
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| 14:34 | din_os: if you can make your router send an next-server field, do so, otherwise you'll have to use the IPAPPEND 3 directive in pxelinux.cfg/default.
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| 16:50 | <ogra> wohoo ... signed PPAs
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| 16:58 | <stgraber> yeah, all of mine now have their GPG key, that's really cool
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| 17:17 | <ogra> yup
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| 17:17 | Gadi_eeepc, note that the urls have changed ...
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| 18:05 | <nothingman> hi, all
| |
| 18:05 | wondering how confused I am about the ltsp-* commands in edubuntu
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| 18:07 | ltsp-build-client makes a complete chroot directory containing all the installed packages -- binaries and config files, mainly
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| 18:07 | ltsp-update-kernels
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| 18:08 | ltsp-update-kernels makes a kernel for any such chroot with the appropriate architecture?
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| 18:08 | and ltsp-update-image makes a compressed file of the chroot that is treated as an nbd? so, everything but the kernel?
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| 18:09 | and also excluding anything that would be nfs-mounted, of course, such as /home from the original root
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| 18:20 | or maybe you're all just wondering why I haven't read the man pages, but I'm still confused, because there's no image being created for my fat client image
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| 18:25 | <Ryan52> warren, okay, back...that's okay, you can teach me later today.
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| 18:26 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: that (your response to that bug) reminds me...does gdm make .xsession take precedence over .dmrc? cause ldm doesn't..
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| 18:52 | <warren> Ryan52: we have nothing ready to build into fedora at the moment
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| 18:55 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 19:03 | <Ryan52> $ TEXTDOMAIN=iso_639; LANGUAGE=fr_CA.UTF-8; echo $"French"
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| 19:03 | French
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| 19:03 | warren, what did I do wrong there?
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| 19:05 | oh, nevermind, you have to export it..
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| 19:05 | <stgraber> Ryan52: isn't $"" deprecated ?
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| 19:06 | <Ryan52> 11:36 < warren> stgraber: translations in shell scripts without .gettext.sh
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| 19:06 | 11:36 < warren> 1. set TEXTDOMAIN to the text domain you're expecting to look up translations in.
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| 19:06 | 11:36 < warren> 2. make sure your LANG locale is set before the shell runs
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| 19:06 | 11:36 < warren> 3. prefix your echo text with $
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| 19:06 | stgraber, no clue.
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| 19:06 | <stgraber> Ryan52: IIRC xgettext told me that $"" was deprecated and shouldn't be used
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| 19:07 | <Ryan52> warren, that only works for me after I ". gettext.sh"...
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| 19:07 | <nothingman> wondering how confused I am about the ltsp-* commands in edubuntu
| |
| 19:07 | ltsp-build-client makes a complete chroot directory containing all the installed packages -- binaries and config files, mainly
| |
| 19:07 | ltsp-update-kernels makes a kernel for any such chroot with the appropriate architecture?
| |
| 19:07 | and ltsp-update-image makes a compressed file of the chroot that is treated as an nbd? so, everything but the kernel?
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| 19:08 | and also excluding anything that would be nfs-mounted, of course, such as /home from the original root
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| 19:09 | <stgraber> stgraber@sahal:~$ xgettext -L shell I00-nbd-checkupdate.bad
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| 19:09 | I00-nbd-checkupdate.bad:39: warning: the syntax $"..." is deprecated due to security reasons; use eval_gettext instead
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| 19:09 | Ryan52, warren: ^
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| 19:09 | <Ryan52> stgraber, and it doesn't even work like warren said anyway...
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| 19:09 | so ya, I'm convinced ;)
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| 19:11 | <stgraber> Ryan52: as I said, I'm open to anything easier/lighter than what I did so far but as far as I could see the way to gettextize a script is to source gettext.sh set the domain and path to the locales and then use gettext instead of echo and eval_gettext when your string contains a variable
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| 19:11 | http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/gettext/Preparing-Shell-Scripts.html
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| 19:11 | basically
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| 19:11 | <Ryan52> yes, I'm not argueing with you...
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| 19:12 | <warren> Ryan52: you cannot set the locale within the same shell process that gets translated.
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| 19:12 | Ryan52: translation happens once only when the interpreter runs at the beginning
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| 19:13 | Ryan52: if this is too difficult, then we should write a C binary that pulls translated strings out of the .mo. I am NOT installing gettext into the chroot.
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| 19:13 | <Ryan52> I see.
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| 19:15 | <warren> stgraber: isn't $"" what your own distro's initscripts do?
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| 19:15 | <Ryan52> warren, ya, I'm more than fine with that. trivial to do..
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| 19:15 | <warren> stgraber: your own distro translates its bootup without gettext.sh
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| 19:15 | but I think a small binary to pull translations from .mo is better
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| 19:16 | <Ryan52> it seems really stupid for us to write a small binary, imo...
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| 19:16 | <warren> what would you prefer?
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| 19:17 | <Ryan52> why is your gettext package so big?
| |
| 19:17 | * Ryan52 wonders how to get that how big Debian's is | |
| 19:17 | <warren> Ryan52: because gettext is a DEVELOPMENT TOOL, not necessary during runtime.
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| 19:17 | your own distro's initscripts are translated without it
| |
| 19:18 | <Ryan52> yes warren, we get that you think it's a development tool, however the official docs that we keep pointing to make it seem differently. (which is correct, I don't know..)
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| 19:18 | <nothingman> am I just asking a stupid question, or does no one here have an answer?
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| 19:18 | <Ryan52> warren, who ever said that? I said Debian's initscripts don't use it, but I never said they were translated.
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| 19:19 | <warren> Ryan52: ok, our alternative re-run sh in cases where we want it to pull translations
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| 19:19 | Ryan52: I can run my entire system just fine ripping out gettext entirely, because it is a development tool.
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| 19:20 | <warren> anything in runtime that depends on it should be fixed.
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| 19:20 | <Ryan52> ltsp-server's Debian package does.
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| 19:20 | but ya, gettext-base does have a really low reverse dependancies list in debian..
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| 19:21 | <warren> because it is entirely not necessary to use it
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| 19:21 | try2free has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:21 | <Ryan52> warren, stgraber: so what's the problem with $""? anybody know?
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| 19:22 | hrm. so how do the C binaries get gettext? are they statically linked to it? 0.o
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| 19:22 | <warren> Ryan52: they don't use gettext
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| 19:22 | Ryan52: gettext's primary purpose is to pull strings out of source code to put it into .pot files
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| 19:22 | <Ryan52> they use the function called gettext...is that in the standard library?
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| 19:22 | * warren checks | |
| 19:23 | <warren> /usr/lib64/libasprintf.so.0 and /usr/lib64/libgettextpo.so.0
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| 19:24 | hmm
| |
| 19:24 | it seems most apps don't use that either....
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| 19:24 | <Ryan52> that comes from the gettext-base package in debian.
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| 19:24 | s/that/those/
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| 19:24 | <warren> in fact, nothing uses that
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| 19:24 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 19:25 | *shrug*. I don't care how it works, as long as it does :)
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| 19:25 | <warren> I'll ask our eng-i18n engineers, brb
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| 19:25 | * stgraber checks to see if our boot process is actually translated, AFAIk it's not supposed to be :) | |
| 19:26 | <stgraber> root@mxapp-126-1-1:/var/log# /etc/init.d/gdm restart * Stopping GNOME Display Manager... [ OK ] * Starting GNOME Display Manager...
| |
| 19:26 | that's with LANG=fr_CA.UTF-8 and all langpacks
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| 19:28 | Depends: libc6 (>= 2.8~20080505), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1)
| |
| 19:28 | Filename: pool/main/g/gettext/gettext-base_0.17-3ubuntu2_i386.deb
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| 19:28 | Size: 73350
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| 19:28 | what's making it so big in fedora ?
| |
| 19:29 | <Ryan52> I'm guessing that they don't have it split into gettext-base
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| 19:29 | since warren keeps calling it "gettext".
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| 19:29 | <warren> "usually we use a macro to deal with it like _(). if you use glib, it's defined in glib/gi18n.h or glib/gi18n-lib.h"
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| 19:29 | <stgraber> right, both are quite different
| |
| 19:30 | <warren> glib can do it. We already provide tiny support binaries in there. Just add it there.
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| 19:31 | <stgraber> warren: what's the package that contains /usr/bin/gettext in fedora and what else is in it ?
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| 19:31 | <warren> stgraber: http://fpaste.org/paste/2449
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| 19:32 | stgraber: we don't split it because it is NOT a runtime package, development only
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| 19:32 | <Ryan52> ours is split
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| 19:32 | http://pastebin.com/f594f26fd
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| 19:32 | <warren> our initscripts are translated without it installed
| |
| 19:32 | <Ryan52> that's all we have.
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| 19:32 | but that's a security problem, according to what stgraber posted.
| |
| 19:32 | <warren> where?
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| 19:33 | <stgraber> not according to me but according tox gettext :)
| |
| 19:33 | *xgettext
| |
| 19:33 | <Ryan52> 17:10 < stgraber> I00-nbd-checkupdate.bad:39: warning: the syntax $"..." is deprecated due to security reasons; use eval_gettext instead
| |
| 19:33 | <stgraber> stgraber@sahal:~$ xgettext -L shell I00-nbd-checkupdate.bad
| |
| 19:33 | I00-nbd-checkupdate.bad:39: warning: the syntax $"..." is deprecated due to security reasons; use eval_gettext instead
| |
| 19:34 | <warren> asking someone...
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| 19:34 | <Ryan52> if you want, I'll just write the little c binary...
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| 19:35 | <warren> that would be preferable
| |
| 19:35 | * Ryan52 enjoys reinventing wheels | |
| 19:35 | <stgraber> warren: anyway, if $"" is working for your init scripts it's because something at some points defines $""
| |
| 19:35 | <warren> stgraber: no
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| 19:35 | stgraber: it is a built-in of the shell
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| 19:35 | <Ryan52> stgraber: no, his works fine...even I agree with that one :)
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| 19:35 | <stgraber> Ryan52: hmm .. but that's not dash I guess ? :)
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| 19:36 | <Ryan52> oh, I only tested interactively...one sec.
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| 19:37 | ahah, I see.
| |
| 19:37 | isn't this /bin/bash anyway?
| |
| 19:37 | I thought that that's how our rc.d scripts were ran.
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| 19:38 | <warren> Keep in mind that LANG must be set *before* the shell interpret
| |
| 19:38 | interpreter
| |
| 19:38 | <Ryan52> $ dash test.sh
| |
| 19:38 | $French
| |
| 19:38 | $ bash test.sh
| |
| 19:38 | Français
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| 19:38 | <warren> what shell are we using for the rc.d scripts?
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| 19:38 | try2free has left #ltsp | |
| 19:38 | <Ryan52> iirc, bash.
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| 19:39 | #! /bin/sh
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| 19:41 | <stgraber> Ryan52: does that only work with $"" or also with gettext "" ?
| |
| 19:42 | I'd appreciate xgettext not complaining every-time I update the .pot telling me it's deprecated :)
| |
| 19:42 | <Ryan52> I'd appreciate if we didn't use things that have "security" reasons for being deprecated..
| |
| 19:43 | * Ryan52 wonders if they are relevant or not | |
| 19:43 | <warren> hmm, we don't use xgettext anywhere here.
| |
| 19:43 | or gettext.sh
| |
| 19:44 | <Ryan52> xgettext generates the .pot and .po files (or one of them) from the source files.
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| 19:44 | <stgraber> warren: xgettext is the thing used to extract the strings from the scripts
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| 19:44 | * warren reads why xgettext thinks that is insecure | |
| 19:45 | <Ryan52> I doubt it's relevance to our stuff, but still..
| |
| 19:45 | <warren> Could we please have a tiny binary or ldm-dialog handle this, since glib already does it?
| |
| 19:45 | <Ryan52> yes, of course.
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| 19:46 | I offered a page of scrollback ago :)
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| 19:46 | <stgraber> what we need though is something that's then parsable using xgettext
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| 19:46 | otherwise it'll be a pain to generate the .pot :)
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| 19:47 | <Ryan52> stgraber, we can define a shell function called eval_gettext :)
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| 19:47 | <vagrantc> gah.
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| 19:47 | <warren> Ryan52: that calls our binary instead
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| 19:47 | <Ryan52> warren, exactly
| |
| 19:47 | <vagrantc> what the world needs is a whole new revolution in wheel design!
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| 19:48 | we should at least integrate it with dbus or pulseaudio or something, just to make sure we have lots of bugs in it.
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| 19:48 | <stgraber> Ryan52: well, you can probably do that mini-binary and then we can re-implement gettext.sh :)
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| 19:48 | let's call it /usr/share/ltsp/gettext.sh and make it export the same functions as /usr/bin/gettext.sh
| |
| 19:48 | :)
| |
| 19:49 | <vagrantc> gettext.sh is *only* useful as a runtime function.
| |
| 19:49 | that is it's only purpose.
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| 19:49 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: it's only for development, says warren :)
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| 19:49 | <warren> vagrantc: we don't use it anywhere
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> warren: yes, well, it's used all over the place in debian.
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| 19:50 | <Ryan52> $ apt-cache rdepends gettext-base | wc -l
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| 19:50 | 30
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| 19:50 | ...
| |
| 19:50 | out of the how many packges that Debian has?
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> warren: we've been using this in ltsp-server since 2006 ... why is this a crisis now?
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| 19:51 | <Ryan52> cause it's in the chroot.
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| 19:51 | <stgraber> Ryan52: 30 + all the packages that assumed it'd be here as a base package :)
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| 19:51 | <Ryan52> stgraber, heh, ya.
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| 19:51 | warren likes to make me reinvent wheels to keep the chroot small.
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> that's not really an assumtion they're suppose to make ... as gettext-base is only priority standard.
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| 19:52 | <Ryan52> :)
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| 19:52 | vagrantc: you mean "Priority: Standard" isn't required? :p
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| 19:52 | <warren> If you rather not use glib's native ability to handle this, then I'm going to add code that simply leaves it untranslated.
| |
| 19:52 | in my case
| |
| 19:52 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: nope.
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| 19:52 | * Ryan52 was joking.. | |
| 19:52 | <warren> currently it errors out due to a syntax error
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| 19:53 | <Ryan52> warren: so put it back to eval_gettext
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| 19:53 | <warren> perhaps one reason why we don't use gettext.sh anywhere is because we stopped writing text interfaces for anything many years ago.
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| 19:53 | <Ryan52> but anyway, I'm fine with making a new binary.
| |
| 19:55 | <stgraber> Ryan52: I'm fine with a new binary as long as you provide a gettext.sh script with it and tweak the environment in fedora to use that gettext.sh (so I can still use the one I have in the chroot and don't have to maintain both one binary and one more script :))
| |
| 19:56 | <warren> Ryan52: I'm OK with that, or I'm also fine with not bothering to translate anything in shell in Fedora.
| |
| 19:56 | stgraber: where is debian's gettext.sh installed?
| |
| 19:56 | <stgraber> warren: /usr/bin/
| |
| 19:57 | * warren writes a patch for review... | |
| 19:57 | <warren> hm
| |
| 19:57 | ) | ldm-dialog --progress --auto-close "`eval_gettext "A new version of the system is available, rebooting in 10s."`"
| |
| 19:57 | with the ``'s you're already running another process
| |
| 19:58 | <stgraber> yeah, that's eval_gettext which is defined in gettext.sh
| |
| 19:58 | <Ryan52> stgraber, so only Fedora would be using my code? 0.o
| |
| 19:59 | <stgraber> Ryan52: well, why using a clone of something I already have in my chroot and that'll provide less features and won't be as supported as the main one ?
| |
| 19:59 | <Ryan52> why? I don't see how that matters..
| |
| 19:59 | this is rediculous.
| |
| 19:59 | * Ryan52 == done | |
| 19:59 | <stgraber> I'll have to ship both :) so why using a clone when you have the original anyway ?
| |
| 19:59 | * warren writes a eval_gettext entirely in bash | |
| 20:00 | <stgraber> though it perfectly makes sense for fedora
| |
| 20:00 | <warren> stgraber: because the original requires 5MB in the chroot
| |
| 20:00 | <Ryan52> warren, but only Fedora is allowed to use your code.
| |
| 20:00 | which is stupid.
| |
| 20:00 | imho.
| |
| 20:00 | <warren> allowed?
| |
| 20:00 | <Ryan52> because stgraber is being stubborn...
| |
| 20:01 | <warren> I don't think his input there makes sense.
| |
| 20:01 | <vagrantc> warren: why not use /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-vendor-functions .... ?
| |
| 20:01 | <warren> vagrantc: does that already exist?
| |
| 20:01 | <Ryan52> stgraber, why does an ltsp chroot have gettext-base anyway?
| |
| 20:01 | <vagrantc> warren: in ltsp-common-functions, it sources that if present.
| |
| 20:02 | <stgraber> Ryan52: well, give me one reason why I should use your implementation of eval_gettext ? Maybe I'm missing something but in my case gettext-base is there by default ...
| |
| 20:02 | Ryan52: hang on a sec, I'll check what's depending on it
| |
| 20:02 | <warren> I'm thinking if implementing eval_gettext in shell is possible
| |
| 20:03 | <Ryan52> stgraber: for simplicity so that there don't have to be differences between Fedora and Ubuntu for no reaosn..
| |
| 20:04 | <vagrantc> eval_gettext *is* implemented in shell.
| |
| 20:04 | <warren> vagrantc: I mean the part that pulls the string out of .mo
| |
| 20:04 | <Ryan52> eval_gettext () { gettext "$1" | (export PATH `envsubst --variables "$1"`; envsubst "$1")
| |
| 20:04 | }
| |
| 20:04 | it's running gettext, tho.
| |
| 20:05 | warren, anyway, why would you prefer to do it in shell than c?
| |
| 20:05 | it's gonna be much more trivial in c..
| |
| 20:05 | and either way it's gonna be Fedora specific, I guess..
| |
| 20:05 | <warren> Wouldn't this be better to have entirely in C?
| |
| 20:05 | without the weird bash loop
| |
| 20:05 | <stgraber> Ryan52: hmm, ok. Just checked on a clean chroot, gettext-base isn't there by default, so I'm saving 73k by using your script
| |
| 20:05 | * vagrantc notices that gettext is written in C | |
| 20:05 | <Ryan52> warren, what's "this"?
| |
| 20:06 | <warren> Ryan52: ldm-dialog --nbd-update-countdown
| |
| 20:06 | <Ryan52> stgraber, see? that's a lot! :p
| |
| 20:06 | o noez.
| |
| 20:06 | <stgraber> warren: no please no !!!
| |
| 20:06 | <vagrantc> why not just ship a copy of gettext with ltsp? in fact, why not ship a copy of every binary we use as part of the ltsp codebase?
| |
| 20:06 | <stgraber> warren: I have 3 more scripts using ldm-dialog that I need to be translated :)
| |
| 20:06 | <warren> stgraber: in the chroot?
| |
| 20:06 | <Ryan52> stgraber: then just let me write the binary and we'll be done with it.
| |
| 20:06 | <stgraber> warren: yeah
| |
| 20:06 | <warren> I don't care outside the chroot.
| |
| 20:07 | <stgraber> warren: session killing, user limitation, ...
| |
| 20:07 | <Ryan52> it's *really* trivial in to do in c.
| |
| 20:07 | <warren> I'm in favor of Ryan52 writing a tiny binary that uses libraries that we already use in the chroot.
| |
| 20:07 | <Ryan52> stgraber, I don't think that it'll hurt you that much to have to "maintain" another binary.
| |
| 20:07 | (note the maintain in quotes, I don't see how it affects you at all..)
| |
| 20:08 | vagrantc, do you have a position on this?
| |
| 20:08 | <vagrantc> i think it's silly that we should re-implement code that already exists.
| |
| 20:08 | <Ryan52> one that isn't sarcastic, preferably :)
| |
| 20:08 | it's like 10 lines of code..
| |
| 20:09 | <warren> vagrantc: you don't care that this is asking me to add 5MB to my chroot?
| |
| 20:09 | <stgraber> Ryan52: just make sure it behaves as eval_gettext so it doesn't break when sent shell variables and make it so we can call it using eval_gettext otherwise the .pot generator just won't work
| |
| 20:09 | <vagrantc> warren: i care some, but fedora chooses to make larger binary packages rather than splitting them up. that's a distro-specific decision.
| |
| 20:09 | <warren> vagrantc: we don't care to split it up because we don't use gettext.sh anywhere during runtime
| |
| 20:10 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i'm just hoping this 10 lines of code actually handles all cases well... gettext is much wider deployed and tested and seasoned and weathered.
| |
| 20:11 | <warren> vagrantc: I don't care if you don't use this tiny binary
| |
| 20:11 | vagrantc: it is my problem if it breaks.
| |
| 20:12 | My alternative that i'm perfectly happy to live with is to not bother translating it. I'm glad that he's willing to write a tiny binary though.
| |
| 20:12 | <vagrantc> are all the things to be translated part of ldm-dialog?
| |
| 20:12 | i.e. things called with ldm-dialog?
| |
| 20:12 | <Ryan52> running ldm-dialog...not part of it.
| |
| 20:12 | yes.
| |
| 20:13 | <vagrantc> maybe ldm-dialog should just support translations.
| |
| 20:13 | <Ryan52> your point?
| |
| 20:13 | <stgraber> vagrantc: we can't do that
| |
| 20:13 | <Ryan52> no, because if you use "hi there $a" it doesn't work.
| |
| 20:13 | and that makes it really hard for xgettext
| |
| 20:13 | <vagrantc> hm.
| |
| 20:13 | <Ryan52> possibly even s/really hard/impossible/
| |
| 20:14 | <stgraber> yeah, I had some issue with xgettext recently, this thing is really hard to make to work :)
| |
| 20:14 | <warren> I might point out that we seemed so concerned about performance in the past, but using gettext.sh in this manner in shell scripts is really slow.
| |
| 20:14 | <stgraber> don't expect something tweakable ... we'll likely to have to drop the autotools for po handling just because of it :)
| |
| 20:14 | <warren> `` runs another process, then it runs gettext (another process), which exits back to the original
| |
| 20:15 | <Ryan52> no, it does't do subshell..
| |
| 20:15 | (if that's what you mean)
| |
| 20:15 | <warren> `` doesn't run another process?
| |
| 20:15 | <Ryan52> not another sh process.
| |
| 20:16 | <warren> We could just write ldm-dialog --do-something-specific for each case where we need a particular dialog. Then the strings are nicely in C which are easy for autotools to handle.
| |
| 20:16 | <Ryan52> eww.
| |
| 20:16 | <warren> and it is faster
| |
| 20:16 | it runs fewer procesess
| |
| 20:16 | <vagrantc> warren: seems liek it's called from about 4 places, and not in your typical login scenario. performance isn't probably a huge issue.
| |
| 20:16 | <Ryan52> then we would also need --something-specific-option-1=blah
| |
| 20:16 | <warren> vagrantc: well, the nbd-update check itself slows down showing the login screen by a noticeable amount
| |
| 20:16 | <Ryan52> and other mess.
| |
| 20:17 | but stgraber needs it elsewhere, apparently.
| |
| 20:17 | <vagrantc> warren: i'm not particularly happy about that at all, yes.
| |
| 20:18 | i'm inclined to conditionalize the nbd-update-check script in an lts.conf value.
| |
| 20:18 | <warren> what happens if it runs backgrounded only after ldm greeter is up?
| |
| 20:19 | oh
| |
| 20:19 | hm
| |
| 20:19 | nevermind
| |
| 20:19 | <stgraber> warren: there would probably be a problem due to lack of window manager, other than that it should be fine
| |
| 20:20 | <warren> stgraber: no, it is possible someone might begin logging in and only then the pop-up happens
| |
| 20:20 | reboot could happen during login
| |
| 20:20 | <stgraber> warren: he can still click cancel
| |
| 20:20 | <warren> but it is confusing
| |
| 20:20 | <stgraber> indeed
| |
| 20:21 | <vagrantc> nbd, a faster route to troubles. :)
| |
| 20:21 | <Ryan52> is ldm GPLv3+?
| |
| 20:21 | <warren> nbd is plenty useful without that auto-reboot thing
| |
| 20:21 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: not yet.
| |
| 20:21 | <Ryan52> well, this program can be :)
| |
| 20:21 | <warren> and I'm wary of the explosion of new lts.conf options
| |
| 20:21 | * Ryan52 will steal the variable substition stuff from gettext. | |
| 20:22 | * vagrantc watches the lines of code increment... | |
| 20:22 | <Ryan52> :P
| |
| 20:22 | <stgraber> Ryan52: can't you just copy/paste gettext.c and call it ltsp_gettext ? :)
| |
| 20:22 | <warren> stgraber: it needs libs I think
| |
| 20:23 | <stgraber> ons
| |
| 20:23 | Depends: libc6 (>= 2.8~20080505), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1)
| |
| 20:23 | any of that isn't standard in fedora ?
| |
| 20:23 | <warren> gettext needs libstdc++?!
| |
| 20:24 | <vagrantc> required on debian systems.
| |
| 20:24 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, I'll just delete all of the newlines :P
| |
| 20:24 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: ah, good thinking!
| |
| 20:24 | <Ryan52> warren, stgraber: anyway, if we're going that route, then just get the fedora packagers to split it.
| |
| 20:24 | <vagrantc> warren: i'm guessing this is another one of those debian splits things into smaller packages issues.
| |
| 20:24 | <warren> Ryan52: no chance that will happen
| |
| 20:25 | <Ryan52> if we are going to actually copy it all, then that's beyond stupid.
| |
| 20:25 | <warren> Ryan52: they'll tell me "don't use it" because nothing else does, meanwhile they will bitch that they have to edit hundreds of other packages to comply with the new gettext package split names.
| |
| 20:25 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: if we're not copying it all, what are we missing?
| |
| 20:26 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, dunno...do I look like I understand l10n? :)
| |
| 20:26 | I was just gonna implement basic eval_gettext and nothing else.
| |
| 20:26 | I doubt we need anything else.
| |
| 20:26 | do we?
| |
| 20:26 | <warren> I'm fine with that
| |
| 20:26 | ) | ldm-dialog --progress --auto-close "`eval_gettext "A new version of the system is available, rebooting in 10s."`"
| |
| 20:27 | <vagrantc> don't really know enough to know what we're missing.
| |
| 20:27 | <warren> seriously, this doesn't make other people want t pouke?
| |
| 20:27 | to puke
| |
| 20:27 | <vagrantc> warren: you don't have to include that plugin in fedora.
| |
| 20:28 | <stgraber> I00-nbd-checkupdate, S15-userLoginCheck, S20-restrictUser and S99-ltsp-cluster are all using ldm-dialog
| |
| 20:28 | * vagrantc might not include it in debian ... | |
| 20:28 | <stgraber> so it's not only the nbd-checkupdate
| |
| 20:29 | <vagrantc> ah, so all the other scripts are broken :)
| |
| 20:29 | <Ryan52> or silent..
| |
| 20:29 | <vagrantc> since they call eval_gettext without making it available...
| |
| 20:29 | <Ryan52> what?
| |
| 20:29 | * Ryan52 confused | |
| 20:29 | <stgraber> vagrantc: the first thing it does is looking for NFS, so in your case it won't take so much extra time
| |
| 20:29 | I just haven't gettextized the others yet
| |
| 20:30 | <vagrantc> stgraber: well, they currently call eval_gettext ...
| |
| 20:30 | <stgraber> vagrantc: do they have the header set ?
| |
| 20:30 | <vagrantc> but don't '. gettext.sh'
| |
| 20:30 | <Ryan52> hrm.
| |
| 20:30 | * Ryan52 sees a problem with that.. | |
| 20:30 | <stgraber> ok, that's what I thought :)
| |
| 20:30 | <warren> stgraber: S99-ltsp-cluster is this script meant to exit?
| |
| 20:31 | stgraber: I thought we arn't supposed to exit from these scripts
| |
| 20:31 | <stgraber> oh, that's a good question :)
| |
| 20:31 | what happens if we exit from a rc.d script ?
| |
| 20:32 | <warren> stgraber: then it stops execution of the entire string of scripts
| |
| 20:32 | stgraber: since they are all sourced and executed in sequence
| |
| 20:32 | <stgraber> good thing it's currently the last one then :), what is it supposed to do instead ? a giant if or can I return or something from it instead of exit ?
| |
| 20:33 | * vagrantc is struggling with getting a useful response out of http://bugs.debian.org/512505 | |
| 20:33 | <vagrantc> they claim that it doesn't store the default session, but also claim that they can't login.
| |
| 20:34 | <warren> stgraber: you can't exit or return
| |
| 20:34 | stgraber: you need conditional blocks
| |
| 20:37 | <stgraber> warren: return seems to work
| |
| 20:38 | <warren> stgraber: without disrupting the chain of scriptS?
| |
| 20:38 | <stgraber> warren: yes
| |
| 20:39 | I wrote 3 scripts: test.sh sourcing test1.sh and test2.sh, test1.sh containing an echo, return and another echo. Then test2.sh contained another echo
| |
| 20:39 | I saw the first echo of test1.sh and the echo of test2.sh
| |
| 20:39 | so the execution of test1.sh stopped with the return and test2.sh was still executed
| |
| 20:40 | <warren> ok
| |
| 20:40 | <stgraber> fixing the rc.d scripts now.
| |
| 20:41 | <warren> I was under the impression that . means "include"
| |
| 20:41 | return is normally for a {} block
| |
| 20:41 | <vagrantc> . == source in shell
| |
| 20:41 | <Ryan52> it does.
| |
| 20:41 | <stgraber> I'm also completing the gettext on these, in your case it means they'll now all break (well, these using ldm-dialog) but at least it'll be consistent and we'll be able to fix them all at once without leaving some untranslated
| |
| 20:41 | warren: fine with that ?
| |
| 20:41 | <warren> stgraber: the first script will gettext.sh once?
| |
| 20:42 | stgraber: I'll test Ryan52's tiny binary when it becomes ready
| |
| 20:42 | <stgraber> hmm, in fact, shouldn't we source gettext.sh in one of the common scripts ?
| |
| 20:42 | <Ryan52> okay, nevermind, this feels too stupid...I'm too tempted to just copy all of the pieces from gettext into ldm-trunk, which is stupid. why not just switch to #!/bin/bash and suck it up about the warnings? :p
| |
| 20:42 | <stgraber> ltsp-common-functions or similar ?
| |
| 20:43 | <Ryan52> I can rewrite it, but seeing as how I'm looking at code that does it, that feels even stupider...:)
| |
| 20:43 | can we just switch the shebang to bash, use $"", and suck it up about the warnings?
| |
| 20:44 | <stgraber> Ryan52: well, I don't really like the idea of using something that's marked as deprecated :) because these thing tend to disappear in the next release or so :)
| |
| 20:44 | <Ryan52> then we'll see what happens to Fedora's init scripts and copy them :)
| |
| 20:44 | <warren> stgraber: unlikely, given that our initscripts use it
| |
| 20:45 | * vagrantc suspects this is a years-long stalemate weather to finally deprecate it or remove the deprecation | |
| 20:45 | <stgraber> Ryan52: can you confirm that TEXTDOMAIN and TEXTDOMAINDIR are correctly working with bash ?
| |
| 20:46 | <Ryan52> ...
| |
| 20:46 | how else would it be finding the translation?
| |
| 20:46 | <warren> I would like to note that using bash might not actually be slower, because it calls ZERO external processes.
| |
| 20:47 | <Ryan52> but ya, setting it to something nonexistant puts back the English output.
| |
| 20:47 | so confirmed.
| |
| 20:47 | <vagrantc> though would be slower in most of the scenarios where that code is never even called
| |
| 20:47 | <stgraber> warren: well, bash itself is slower, that's why Debian and Ubuntu are using dash so ...
| |
| 20:47 | <vagrantc> debian hasn't yet switched to dash, but it's working towards it...
| |
| 20:47 | <Ryan52> Debian doesn't use dash by default.
| |
| 20:48 | <stgraber> Ryan52: oh, really ? I thought they did the switch as well.
| |
| 20:48 | <Ryan52> nope.
| |
| 20:48 | tho all #!/bin/sh have to work with dash.
| |
| 20:48 | <warren> Ryan52: our initscripts have TEXTDOMAIN and TEXTDOMAINDIR
| |
| 20:48 | <vagrantc> stgraber: it's been a release goal to make it possible, and i think nearly all bugs have been fixed with that.
| |
| 20:48 | <Ryan52> warren, I know...I was saying it was working fine.
| |
| 20:48 | <warren> If you folks are against a tiny binary or using bash for this, then I'm just going to write a blank eval_gettext.
| |
| 20:49 | because I really don't care about this.
| |
| 20:49 | * vagrantc wonders if we still need to have ldm-trunk/share/ldm-script.in anymore ... | |
| 20:49 | <stgraber> http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/gettext/bash.html
| |
| 20:50 | <Ryan52> ah, I see.
| |
| 20:51 | <warren> Are you against bash?
| |
| 20:52 | <Ryan52> it's a security hole...
| |
| 20:52 | <warren> how the hell is it a security hole?
| |
| 20:52 | <Ryan52> warren, did you read that page?
| |
| 20:52 | it might help.
| |
| 20:52 | :)
| |
| 20:52 | <vagrantc> particularly point 2
| |
| 20:53 | <kc8pxy> johnny: more success :) i have my ltsp working with my local but seperate dhcp/dns server, and it's the same dhcp software i use at the production site :)
| |
| 20:53 | <stgraber> how easily can one get a translation in fedora ? if it's easy, it basically means anyone can run any command as root on translated systems
| |
| 20:54 | <warren> point #1 is not an issue for us
| |
| 20:54 | <stgraber> if I understand that page right
| |
| 20:54 | <warren> point #2 is an issue if we are really not paying attention
| |
| 20:54 | stgraber: if we're THAT paranoid, then I would add a script that greps for that in the .po files and errors out
| |
| 20:55 | <kc8pxy> the ltsp nfs and tftp are on one machine, and the dnsmasq is playing dhcp on the gateway :)
| |
| 20:56 | how do i dynamically adjust the xorg display size?
| |
| 20:57 | <Ryan52> warren, how can you write a blank eval_gettext?
| |
| 20:57 | <stgraber> warren: can we do something like checking for gettext.sh, if not found then define eval_gettext as an alias of $"" ?
| |
| 20:57 | <Ryan52> it needs to parse the variables..
| |
| 20:57 | that makes sense.
| |
| 20:57 | and is easy to do.
| |
| 20:57 | <stgraber> then it won't affect Debian and Ubuntu as we'll just ship the 53k package and fedora will use the insecure bash thingy
| |
| 20:58 | <warren> stgraber: I don't think bash can do that.
| |
| 20:58 | <Ryan52> warren, why not?
| |
| 20:58 | <stgraber> eval_gettext() {
| |
| 20:58 | echo $"$*"
| |
| 20:58 | }
| |
| 20:58 | <Ryan52> if test -f /usr/bin/gettext.sh; then
| |
| 20:58 | <stgraber> ?
| |
| 20:58 | <Ryan52> oh, crap, stgraber got there first :P
| |
| 20:58 | but ya, that's what I was gonna say :)
| |
| 20:59 | <stgraber> that defined in some generic place like ltsp-common-functions so we don't have to do it for every single rc.d script
| |
| 20:59 | <kc8pxy> arbitrary code execution?
| |
| 21:00 | <stgraber> kc8pxy: well, you have to get that code in a .po first, not that arbitrary
| |
| 21:00 | <warren> stgraber: hm, that's pretty clever if it works.
| |
| 21:00 | <stgraber> though in Ubuntu's case with Launchpad and our language packs, yes
| |
| 21:00 | <warren> kc8pxy: arbitrary as in you would have had to build it into the code...
| |
| 21:00 | <stgraber> warren: well, that's with considering $"" as some kind of function but it may work :)
| |
| 21:01 | <kc8pxy> warren: so you would have to bypass dm5 and those checksums,
| |
| 21:01 | md5
| |
| 21:01 | <stgraber> warren: you could translate the string on LP, then wait for the next langpack and get your code, but it'd take a few months and would very likely be reviewed :)
| |
| 21:01 | <warren> stgraber: how do you conditionally define a function?
| |
| 21:02 | <vagrantc> if -x gettext.sh ; the . gettext.sh ; else eval_gettext() { ...
| |
| 21:02 | though you'll need to verify that the shell you're running supports $""
| |
| 21:03 | <stgraber> warren: http://pastebin.com/f1ede08be
| |
| 21:04 | <warren> vagrantc: if it doesn't support $"" the worst thing that happens is untranslated tsrings
| |
| 21:04 | <stgraber> warren: I don't have any langpack installed but it seems to do what it's supposed to do
| |
| 21:05 | warren: as in, not having gettext.sh, I get "test" as output and not "$test" or an error message
| |
| 21:05 | warren: no, what will happen will be "$your string here"
| |
| 21:05 | I tried it with dash
| |
| 21:05 | <Ryan52> stgraber, http://slexy.org/view/s20TaU94Yh
| |
| 21:06 | since there isn't any docs on that, and the error message lies, and I don't speak python, how do I actually do that?
| |
| 21:06 | (do that == use a config file)
| |
| 21:06 | (yes, off topic here, sorry.)
| |
| 21:07 | japerry has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:08 | <stgraber> warren: http://pastebin.com/f5cf6b4f2
| |
| 21:08 | that's for the version with bash detection
| |
| 21:09 | so it detects if you have gettext.sh, if not it detects if you're using something that works with built-in translation
| |
| 21:09 | <Ryan52> echo $"$*" shouldn't work.
| |
| 21:09 | err, I meant the echo "$*" one
| |
| 21:09 | in dash
| |
| 21:09 | because it won't substitute variables.
| |
| 21:10 | <stgraber> Ryan52: right, that shouldn't be echo actually but eval or something like that :)
| |
| 21:10 | <Ryan52> yes.
| |
| 21:10 | <stgraber> Ryan52: that was more of a proof-of-concept that we can call that built-in and detect if the shell supports translation
| |
| 21:11 | <Ryan52> yes, I know ... I just wanted to make sure that it didn't get left like that and included.
| |
| 21:11 | <stgraber> (it's actually my ~/test.sh that's usually my test-crazy-things-that-shouldnt-work script)
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| 21:12 | Ryan52: do you have some time to do the real implementation ? I have to prepare a school for a ltsp-cluster demo tomorrow :)
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| 21:13 | TheProf has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:13 | <Ryan52> yours should work fine, with the change I already said..
| |
| 21:13 | so I guess you just want me to test it then?
| |
| 21:13 | <warren> I seriously confused.
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| 21:14 | <TheProf> Hello. Hope everyone is well. Sorry if this is a very basic question, but how do I know what the IP / WS number of a client is?
| |
| 21:14 | <stgraber> Ryan52: what release of pastebinit is that btw ? I'm not the one who implemented it and I don't use it actually. Though someone told be he was working on improving it and actually making it useful :)
| |
| 21:14 | <warren> Ryan52: could you add what you think works to the code and I'll test it tomorrow?
| |
| 21:14 | I was under the impression that you couldn't conditionally define a function.
| |
| 21:15 | <stgraber> Ryan52: I'm actually looking for someone to find the right place to put it (probably in ltsp-common-functions or ldm's equivalent (the rc.d launcher ??)) so I can just commit my modified rc.d scripts and have them working :)
| |
| 21:15 | <Ryan52> stgraber, uhhh...then how did you get involved in it? 0.o
| |
| 21:15 | stgraber, it's 0.11-1 from debian experimental.
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| 21:15 | <vagrantc> warren: don't know where you got that impression from...
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| 21:15 | <stgraber> Ryan52: I was talking of the .xml feature :)
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| 21:15 | <Ryan52> oh, ok :p
| |
| 21:15 | <warren> vagrantc: what impression?
| |
| 21:16 | <vagrantc> 19:15 < warren> I was under the impression that you couldn't conditionally define a function.
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| 21:16 | <warren> vagrantc: sh seems to ignore scope for lots of things
| |
| 21:16 | <stgraber> Ryan52: I'm the initial coder of pastebinit but haven't really played with all the .xml thingy yet (though I did some for italc so can probably just use some well-tested functions from it)
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| 21:17 | <Ryan52> I just want it to default to slexy.org so I can destroy my stupid slexy.rb script.
| |
| 21:18 | * Ryan52 was so excited to see that The_PHP_Jedi's feature request got included, and then realized that it wasn't (apparently) usable :( | |
| 21:19 | <TheProf> I'm just stuck trying to get a printer to work off a client. I can print perfectly when it's plugged into the server directly, but not when it's on a client so I'm worried I have the wrong client specified!
| |
| 21:20 | <Ryan52> eval_gettext "User ${LDM_USERNAME} is not allowed to log into this workstation."
| |
| 21:20 | stgraber: how does that work?
| |
| 21:21 | bash will substitute the variable in before calling eval_gettext, won't it?
| |
| 21:21 | which means that gettext won't find anything matching that, right?
| |
| 21:21 | we need to use single quotes..
| |
| 21:23 | <warren> Ryan52: stgraber: Especially those strings that contain other strings... it is approaching stupid to try to support it from shell scripts. It would actually be cleaner to write special modes of ldm-dialog.
| |
| 21:23 | <Ryan52> what do you mean by "that contain other strings"?
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| 21:23 | <warren> Ryan52: "User ${LDM_USERNAME} is not allowed to log into this workstation."
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| 21:24 | <Ryan52> eval_gettext takes that into account, by getting the translation, then doing the variable processing
| |
| 21:24 | gettext doesn't. it just gets the direct translation.
| |
| 21:24 | so it's not stupid, it's intended behavior.
| |
| 21:24 | <warren> the .po file has a place to leave the variable?
| |
| 21:24 | because the variable wont always be the second word
| |
| 21:24 | <Ryan52> I think it'll just have "User ${LDM_USERNAME} is not allowed to log into this workstation." in the .po file.
| |
| 21:24 | <warren> for example
| |
| 21:25 | <Ryan52> tho stgraber is the xgettext guy now :)
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| 21:25 | <warren> Ryan52: stgraber: is one of you adding the conditional gettext.sh?
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| 21:26 | <Ryan52> I am.
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| 21:26 | <stgraber> Ryan52: hmm, current bzr branch actually seems to work with the .xml but paste.debian.net doesn't work now ...
| |
| 21:26 | <warren> thanks
| |
| 21:26 | <Ryan52> stgraber, with what .xml file?
| |
| 21:26 | the one in the error message?
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| 21:26 | <stgraber> Ryan52: the one you pastebined
| |
| 21:27 | <Ryan52> okay, thanks.
| |
| 21:28 | <stgraber> Ryan52: http://slexy.org/view/s214k31Qzv
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| 21:28 | Ryan52: I'd have to check what changed on paste.debian.net though as something broke there ...
| |
| 21:28 | <Ryan52> looks like revision 61 fixed it...planning on making a new release soon?
| |
| 21:29 | <vagrantc> ltsp-trunk/po/ltsp.pot doesn't have any variable names, only %s substitutions
| |
| 21:29 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: that's cause it's c code..
| |
| 21:29 | or does it have the "is not allowed to log into this workstation." already?
| |
| 21:29 | <stgraber> Ryan52: so in whatever script you put that eval_gettext function, can you make sure you also have both TEXTDOMAIN and TEXTDDOMAINDIR exported ?
| |
| 21:29 | Ryan52: then I'll just drop these from the rc.d scripts and commit my chnages (also drop the evil exits)
| |
| 21:29 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: we used printf for those strings...
| |
| 21:30 | <warren> stgraber: can you make sure you also have both TEXTDOMAIN and TEXTDDOMAINDIR exported ? huh? where is it now?
| |
| 21:30 | stgraber: not?
| |
| 21:30 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, ...in shell?
| |
| 21:30 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: it's all in shell code, but using printf
| |
| 21:30 | <Ryan52> o.
| |
| 21:30 | weird.
| |
| 21:30 | why didn't we think of that? :p
| |
| 21:30 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: ltsp-trunk/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/common/001-set-arch, for example.
| |
| 21:30 | <stgraber> warren: currently it's in all rc.d scripts but that should be in a common script
| |
| 21:31 | <Ryan52> if we do it that way, the simple binary is actually really, really simple...no stolen code or anything. :)
| |
| 21:31 | but still, ya.
| |
| 21:31 | stgraber, okay, but where does it get TEXTDOMAIN from?
| |
| 21:31 | <warren> where does that printf come from?
| |
| 21:31 | <Ryan52> or what should TEXTDOMAIN be?
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| 21:31 | <warren> Ryan52: if you look in ltsp-trunk/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/common/001-set-arch it still uses eval_gettext
| |
| 21:31 | <vagrantc> warren: coreutils
| |
| 21:32 | <stgraber> Ryan52: ldm probably or ldmrc if we want a different domain
| |
| 21:32 | <vagrantc> warren: /usr/bin/printf
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| 21:32 | <Ryan52> warren: it could just be using gettext tho.
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| 21:32 | <warren> Ryan52: what do you mean?
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| 21:32 | <Ryan52> it doesn't need eval_gettext...it just needs gettext.
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| 21:33 | <warren> Ryan52: which is in the same package as gettext.sh here...
| |
| 21:33 | <Ryan52> my point is that if we used all printf's in the shell scripts, then the simple binary idea would actually be 10 lines, no stolen code or nothin.
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| 21:33 | <warren> to replace which part?
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| 21:33 | <Ryan52> what do you mean which part?
| |
| 21:34 | <warren> if you use coreutils printf
| |
| 21:34 | <stgraber> hmm, what's the problem with my shell script ? why do we need a binary again ? :)
| |
| 21:34 | <Ryan52> and a simple binary we create.
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| 21:34 | <warren> Ryan52: ltsp-trunk/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/common/001-set-arch uses printf with eval_gettext
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| 21:34 | <Ryan52> then we need nothing.
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| 21:34 | stgraber, it requires either bash or gettext.
| |
| 21:34 | :)
| |
| 21:34 | <warren> requiring either bash or gettext is fine
| |
| 21:35 | <Ryan52> I know.
| |
| 21:35 | <warren> Just pick something and stick to it!
| |
| 21:35 | =)
| |
| 21:35 | <Ryan52> I wasn't suggesting we go back.
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| 21:35 | <warren> I don't understand what you mean by printf though
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| 21:35 | <stgraber> +1 for the script thingy
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| 21:35 | <Ryan52> yes, we have all agreed to use the script.
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| 21:35 | <stgraber> if we feel the need, we can still write a eval_gettext in C afterwards :)
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| 21:36 | <Ryan52> 19:32 < stgraber> Ryan52: ldm probably or ldmrc if we want a different domain
| |
| 21:36 | so which one?
| |
| 21:36 | you're currently putting it into ldm with the xgettext stuff, right?
| |
| 21:36 | <stgraber> I found it hard to merge the .pot generated from the C code and the one from the rc.d/ so ldmrc would be easier for me :)
| |
| 21:36 | <Ryan52> okay, then we'll go with that.
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| 21:36 | <stgraber> no, I haven't managed to make xgettext to merge them yet
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| 21:37 | <Ryan52> now why do we need to export TEXTDDOMAINDIR?
| |
| 21:37 | doesn't it have reasonable defaults?
| |
| 21:37 | (I didn't set it in any of my tests, and they all worked fine..)
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| 21:37 | <TheProf> Maybe I'll start with a more basic question -- do you need to be logged into a client to get the printer attached to that client to print?
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| 21:38 | <johnny> yes
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| 21:38 | <Ryan52> okay, code works, now where do I put it?
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| 21:39 | <TheProf> johnny: so it won't just print if it is booted up and waiting at the login prompt?
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| 21:39 | <johnny> well.. technically.. you could point to the jetpipe by port on that ip..
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| 21:39 | unless it only listens over the ssh connection that is..
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| 21:39 | <TheProf> johnny: I was following the instructions given here: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Printers
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| 21:40 | <TheProf> I attempted to point the server to the printer using the jetdirect feature
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| 21:40 | <johnny> oh.. then it should work
| |
| 21:40 | but.. you would have known that.. if you would have tried to login and do it before asking the question
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| 21:40 | does it even work from a different machine even if logged in?
| |
| 21:40 | * johnny imagines not | |
| 21:40 | <stgraber> Ryan52: do we use ldm-script.in ?>
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| 21:40 | <TheProf> johnny: that's the part that's got me stumped. I had it working when I plug the printer directly into the server no problem.
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| 21:41 | <stgraber> Ryan52: if so, it may be the right place
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| 21:41 | <johnny> sure.. but i bet your problem has nothing to do with being logged in
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| 21:41 | check bug reports perhaps
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| 21:41 | <TheProf> I was grasping at straws :)
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| 21:41 | <warren> I'm incredibly exhausted.
| |
| 21:41 | * johnny realises he needs to step away for a few | |
| 21:41 | * warren sleep | |
| 21:41 | <TheProf> All the instructions on the wiki are straightforward hence my confusion. I'll check the cups log now
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| 21:42 | <stgraber> Ryan52: about TEXTDOMAINDIR, I have no idea, it was part of the gettext example :)
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| 21:43 | <Ryan52> pushed
| |
| 21:44 | or pushing..
| |
| 21:44 | there.
| |
| 21:45 | <stgraber> I guess that for po/ I'll just revert to using autotools (as it does some magic with the C code) and will put a script to generate the template and update the .po
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| 21:46 | any problem with that ?
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| 21:46 | <Ryan52> not from me.
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| 21:49 | <warren> stgraber: wait, you're relying on autotools to read the source files and write .pot?
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| 21:49 | <TheProf> johnny: so as far as I can understand the cups error log, nothing's wrong. it is listing all the jobs as completed
| |
| 21:49 | <warren> stgraber: I think some (most?) projects separate that entirely...
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| 21:50 | <TheProf> But nothing's coming out of the printer - it's sitting there staring at me waiting.
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| 21:50 | <stgraber> warren: it's how it was done in ldm
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| 21:50 | <warren> stgraber: they run their own script separate from autotools to do gettextize and spit out the .pot updates
| |
| 21:50 | oh
| |
| 21:50 | unless you mean the part where it takes .po and compiles .mo
| |
| 21:50 | <stgraber> warren: I don't like it but that Makefile does some magic I don't really understand and don't want to check now
| |
| 21:51 | <warren> source -> .pot shouldn't be part of the usual autotools build
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| 21:51 | <stgraber> warren: we have: make ldm.pot, make update-po and make all done by autotools at the moment
| |
| 21:51 | <warren> .po -> .mo should
| |
| 21:51 | <stgraber> warren: so I basically can't change that Makefile because it's all generated by the autogen and the configure ...
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| 21:51 | that's why I'll just write an external script that'll do the job for ldm rc.d for now
| |
| 21:51 | <warren> grr
| |
| 21:52 | ok
| |
| 21:59 | <TheProf> So I just tried it again and it shows, after a long wait, that the job is complete!
| |
| 21:59 | But nothing is coming out, and the error log shows no errors.
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| 22:00 | <stgraber> ok, just pushed the fixed rc.d scripts
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| 22:00 | next task on my list is to write that script for po/
| |
| 22:00 | <Ryan52> which scripting languages would people be okay with me adding to the build dependancies? for generating the translations for language and territory, I don't want to bother doing it in C...I can handle perl or ruby. I would do shell, but it can't parse xml...I would be fine with using xslt, tho, if you prefer me to use that.
| |
| 22:01 | (xslt + bash as opposed to perl or ruby)
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| 22:01 | s/bash/sh/
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| 22:05 | <Ryan52> I guess it doesn't even need to do it on build...we can just generate it and put it in bzr.
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| 22:06 | <stgraber> Ryan52: python is already a dependency
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| 22:07 | (for jetpipe)
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| 22:07 | <Ryan52> yes, but my brain doesn't speak python :)
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| 22:07 | * Ryan52 will figure it out | |
| 22:07 | <TheProf> Sooo...is there something else I should do to trouble-shoot this? :S
| |
| 22:15 | I went through the mailing list archives and found this: "...on K12Linux (Fedora) we forgot to include pyserial in the chroot, which jetpipe requires, resulting in symptoms similar to yours. Adding it fixed the problem." The problem was the system reporting completed printing but nothing comes out. But I have no idea how to add pyserial.
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| 22:17 | <Ryan52> no clue if that's your problem, but in Debian/Ubuntu, it looks like those come from the python-serial package.
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| 22:19 | <TheProf> Ryan52: OK at least I am a bit reassured that it's not something totally unique here.
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| 22:28 | <Ryan52> warren, hrm. it's still gonna be 3 megs of stuff with the translations (for including the language name and territory translated into everything).
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| 22:28 | warren, so by regenerating it we aren't helping much.
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| 22:29 | <warren> Ryan52: huh!?
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| 22:29 | <Ryan52> warren, what do you think about pushing only the translated name and territory over the ldminfod?
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| 22:29 | one sec...is that in bytes or kilobytes? :p
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| 22:29 | <warren> can't possibly be 3MB
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| 22:30 | <Ryan52> warren, http://pastebin.com/f3a9a4654 http://pastebin.com/f72cb27a7
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| 22:30 | TheProf has left #ltsp | |
| 22:30 | <Ryan52> that's the current sizes of the stuff from the package.
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| 22:30 | all we're gonna be doing is mucking with it..
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| 22:30 | <warren> is that bytes or kilobytes?
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| 22:31 | oh
| |
| 22:31 | hm
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| 22:31 | <Ryan52> kilobytes, I think.
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| 22:31 | <warren> KB
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| 22:31 | <Ryan52> my idea is to push it over ldminfo, but only in the language itself.
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| 22:31 | would that still be too much?
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| 22:31 | <warren> 273 * <how many bytes per language?>
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| 22:32 | on average
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| 22:32 | <vagrantc> i tried with 256, and it was about 16Kb
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| 22:32 | <Ryan52> language-with-name:en_US:English (United States)
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| 22:33 | <warren> This is entirely to avoid parsing the xml
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| 22:33 | on the client side
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| 22:34 | <Ryan52> yes.
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| 22:34 | <warren> Ryan52: I guess that's OK... but let's come up with a more reasonable way to filter languages
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| 22:34 | <Ryan52> well, that much data into the chroot is bad.
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| 22:34 | <warren> locale -a is ureasonable
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| 22:34 | <Ryan52> Fedora is unreasonable for that one, imho :)
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| 22:34 | <warren> Fedora is doing the standard glibc behavior
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| 22:34 | <Ryan52> pfft. standard.
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| 22:34 | <warren> Debian must have mucked with it.
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| 22:35 | <Ryan52> anyway, is there a reasonable way to filter languages?
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| 22:35 | is there some way to know what the user actually wants?
| |
| 22:36 | or do you mean adding settings to ldminfod somehow, or something complicated like that?
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| 22:36 | * vagrantc wonders how many systems actually support more than a small handfull of langauges ... | |
| 22:37 | <vagrantc> in practice, enabling languages as needed seems much more sane.
| |
| 22:37 | <stgraber> vagrantc: most of ours have two languages (so that's 10 or so locales) never had more on one box yet
| |
| 22:38 | <vagrantc> stgraber: right.
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| 22:39 | there are some countries with 6 or more languages in common use...
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| 22:39 | <warren> vagrantc: you mean we should define languages we want to have in the menu in a config file read by ldminfod?
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| 22:40 | <vagrantc> warren: that's one possible way to do it ... though i don't really understand why 'locale -a' should ever output such an absurd number of locales.
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| 22:41 | <warren> vagrantc: it was never meant to be used in this manner.
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> warren: maybe debian has patched 'locale -a' to only display available locales, but i can't see that as a bad thing.
| |
| 22:42 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, but it's not standard! :p
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> warren: actually, i suspect debian hasn't patched locale, but rather generates desired locales at install time.
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| 22:43 | <warren> oh, that might be it
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| 22:43 | vagrantc: we default to install all, you can exclude if you want, but nobody bothers.
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| 22:43 | <vagrantc> which seems reasonable to me...
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| 22:44 | <warren> still, it seems reasonable that a deployment will want to choose the languages they display
| |
| 22:44 | <vagrantc> exactly.
| |
| 22:46 | debian typically only generates the locales the admin asked for, so that mechanism is typical practice on a debian system ...
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| 22:47 | <Ryan52> so anyway...still no solution.
| |
| 22:47 | <vagrantc> so an optional ldminfod-specific configuration file?
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| 22:48 | <Ryan52> oh yay, I get to figure out how to make a python script parse a config file.
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| 22:48 | <warren> 273 languages isn't *THAT* much data over the wire
| |
| 22:48 | but how long does it take ldminfod to generate all that?
| |
| 22:49 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: are you working on patches to ldminfod to get more distinct locale names?
| |
| 22:49 | Ryan52: i still get no distinction between es_AR, es_MX and es_US, for example ...
| |
| 22:49 | language-with-name:Spanish; Castilian:es_AR.UTF-8
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| 22:49 | language-with-name:Spanish; Castilian:es_MX.UTF-8
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| 22:50 | <Ryan52> yes, I know. it will now add territory.
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| 22:50 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: now, as in patches you have yet to commit?
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| 22:50 | <Ryan52> and not require iso-codes in the chroot.
| |
| 22:50 | yes, not yet finished.
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| 22:50 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: cool. :)
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| 23:01 | <Ryan52> warren: real 0m0.501s
| |
| 23:01 | on my fedora box.
| |
| 23:02 | <warren> half a second?
| |
| 23:02 | <Ryan52> yep.
| |
| 23:02 | 11951 characters.
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| 23:02 | <warren> So it has to touch a lot of files every time ldminfod is read
| |
| 23:03 | Ryan52: half second is 2nd and subsequent runs after all files are already in memory?
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| 23:03 | <Ryan52> 0m0.318s
| |
| 23:04 | <warren> I suppose it has to read a lot fewer files when we limit it with a config file.
| |
| 23:05 | <Ryan52> 0m0.159s on my Debian system, which has 3 languages..
| |
| 23:05 | wheras before I started to touch stuff it took 0m0.040s
| |
| 23:05 | <vagrantc> no, all the languages and countries are defined in two files...
| |
| 23:05 | so limiting it won't speed it up
| |
| 23:06 | well, i suppose the output will be reduced some...
| |
| 23:06 | <Ryan52> translating.
| |
| 23:06 | it's doing a gettext for each one.
| |
| 23:06 | each contry and each language.
| |
| 23:06 | <vagrantc> oh, this must be a different implementation...
| |
| 23:07 | * Ryan52 is on attempt number 3! :p | |
| 23:08 | <Ryan52> how do you do comments in python?
| |
| 23:08 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: #
| |
| 23:08 | there are other options...
| |
| 23:08 | <Ryan52> emacs doens't make it colored.
| |
| 23:08 | hrm.
| |
| 23:09 | <vagrantc> you have to make sure your whitespace doesn't get borked when you comment stuff out ...
| |
| 23:09 | <Ryan52> yes, I know.
| |
| 23:09 | okay, so is this pushable?
| |
| 23:10 | * vagrantc has no idea what it even is... | |
| 23:10 | <Ryan52> 0.o
| |
| 23:10 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: new ldminfod variant of the week?
| |
| 23:10 | <Ryan52> Traceback (most recent call last):
| |
| 23:10 | File "./ldminfod", line 227, in <module>
| |
| 23:10 | print lang_with_name(lang)
| |
| 23:10 | UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe5' in position 23: ordinal not in range(128)
| |
| 23:10 | what's that mean?
| |
| 23:11 | <warren> Ryan52: you need a different data type for utf-8
| |
| 23:11 | <Ryan52> this is why I shouldn't touch python :)
| |
| 23:11 | what do you mean data type?
| |
| 23:11 | <warren> hm
| |
| 23:11 | <vagrantc> integer, string, ..
| |
| 23:11 | <Ryan52> language = gettext.dgettext("iso_639", langmap.get(langcode, ''))
| |
| 23:11 | I never said any type..
| |
| 23:12 | was I supposed to? :p
| |
| 23:12 | <vagrantc> i guess so.
| |
| 23:12 | <warren> Ryan52: you could paste that in #fedora-devel and the error message, lots of python devs there.
| |
| 23:12 | <Ryan52> okay, so how do I do that?
| |
| 23:12 | <stgraber> Ryan52: hang on a sec
| |
| 23:13 | Ryan52: try adding .decode('UTF-8') or .encode() I never know which one of these that's
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| 23:13 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: prepend a "u" to your strings to indicate a unicode string ... maybe
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| 23:13 | language = gettext.dgettext(u"iso_639", langmap.get(langcode, ''))
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| 23:13 | maybe
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| 23:14 | or whichever string you expect to come out as unicode
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| 23:15 | <Ryan52> Traceback (most recent call last):
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| 23:15 | File "./ldminfod", line 227, in <module>
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| 23:15 | print lang_with_name(lang).decode('UTF-8')
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| 23:15 | same thing.
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| 23:16 | <vagrantc> encode
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| 23:16 | <Ryan52> Traceback (most recent call last):
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| 23:16 | File "./ldminfod", line 226, in <module>
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| 23:16 | print lang_with_name(lang).encode()
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| 23:18 | and it gets quiet...
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| 23:18 | <vagrantc> http://evanjones.ca/python-utf8.html
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| 23:19 | i'm wondering if you wouldn't want to encode the string as you inserted it?
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| 23:20 | <Ryan52> do you want to try?
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| 23:20 | <stgraber> Ryan52: .encode('UTF-8')
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| 23:20 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: where's the code?
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| 23:20 | <Ryan52> you need a Fedora system to test on, tho :p
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| 23:21 | wait, it's working.
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| 23:21 | no, it's not :p
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| 23:22 | vagrantc, do you have a Fedora vm you can test with? or can you enable all of the locales somehow?
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| 23:22 | (which would probably take too long..)
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| 23:22 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i could enable some unicode locales
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| 23:22 | some locales that depend on unicode characters, that is
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| 23:23 | <Ryan52> I have it printing this on my Debian system fine: language-with-name:日本語 (日本):ja_JP.UTF-8
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| 23:23 | so I think unicode works..
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| 23:23 | <warren> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=480995
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| 23:23 | This bug makes no sense at all.
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| 23:24 | Ryan52: hmm, if ldm itself is in english mode will it print "Japanese" before that?
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| 23:24 | <Ryan52> no.
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| 23:24 | is that a problem?
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| 23:25 | there's no way for it to get information about every single language over ldminfo without way more data going back and forth.
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| 23:25 | and does it even matter?
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| 23:25 | I'm guessing that if you can't read the language name, you probably don't want to log in with that language..
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| 23:25 | <vagrantc> language selections are actually reasonable places to have break default locale settings, as a native speaker might recognize the native spelling of their language rather than the default locale's language
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| 23:26 | <warren> Ryan52: yes, that is a problem.
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| 23:27 | hmm
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| 23:27 | <Ryan52> well, then it's impossible.
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| 23:27 | if we can't have it all over the wire.
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| 23:27 | and you won't allow it all in the chroot.
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| 23:27 | then there is no way for ldm to know it in all those languages.
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| 23:27 | <vagrantc> "
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| 23:27 | * vagrantc notes that in the chroot *is* in fact, over the wire | |
| 23:28 | <Ryan52> -.-
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| 23:28 | <warren> No, I was in favor of only LANG codes over the wire like the previous ldminfod and parsing stuff in the chroot, even if it is 8MB.
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| 23:28 | <Ryan52> really? I could swear you had a problem with that yesterday..
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| 23:29 | so you can add 8mb for language names but not 5mb for gettext? 0.o
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| 23:29 | whatever.
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| 23:29 | in that case, current trunk is good, right?
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| 23:29 | <warren> Ryan52: you have: language-with-name:日本語 (日本):ja_JP.UTF-8 working?
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| 23:29 | <Ryan52> not really.
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| 23:29 | if you ignore the errors, then it might be working..
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| 23:29 | (can't tell, really)
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| 23:29 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 23:29 | <warren> Ryan52: I was unhappy about trunk because it needs iso-codes on both sides which I found to be highly redundant.
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| 23:30 | <Ryan52> ah, right.
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| 23:30 | xml parsing in with glib...hrm.
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| 23:30 | <warren> Ryan52: I suppose give it a try with only native language display and we'll see how it looks
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| 23:30 | <Ryan52> with which way? over the wire or on the chroot side?
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| 23:30 | <warren> I would prefer sending it all over the wire and avoiding 8MB in the chroot.
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| 23:31 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 23:31 | * vagrantc too | |
| 23:31 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, if I give you access to my Fedora system can you look at it?
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| 23:31 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: sure.
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| 23:38 | warren has quit IRC | |
| 23:38 | <alkisg> Would anyone be interested in allowing some network information to be passed in the kernel command line? E.g. kernel vmlinuz ro root-path=/opt/ltsp/i386 ? This would help avoiding a second dhcp request while clients boot (with pxelinux's IPAPPEND 3 or static IPs or whatever), and it would only require a couple of lines to change...
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| 23:41 | <vagrantc> that's some weird output...
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| 23:42 | Ryan52: my favorite is language-with-name:Project-Id-Version: iso_639 3.2
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| 23:43 | <Ryan52> 0.o
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| 23:43 | oh, right, I remember that.
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| 23:43 | one sec. :p
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| 23:43 | or are you doin stuff?
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| 23:43 | <vagrantc> i'm looking at my own copy
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| 23:44 | <Ryan52> well, it needs to not do the dgettext if it gets back an empty string from the map thing.
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| 23:48 | <alkisg> If, when the clients started, they automatically connected with ssh to the server as a restricted user, and this ldm_user only had ldm as a shell, wouldn't it be much easier? E.g. there wouldn't be any need for the client to have language packs installed...
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| 23:48 | <vagrantc> alkisg: tricky to implement cleanly...
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| 23:49 | <alkisg> I think the benefits would justify some extra work...
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| 23:49 | anyway :)
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| 23:50 | <vagrantc> i'd be wary of it from a security standpoint ... restricted users that control everybody's login have a tendency to get attacked.
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| 23:52 | <alkisg> If it only run ldm, and as a restricted user, how valneruble could it be?
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| 23:52 | *vulnerable
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| 23:52 | And it's not like it would be a passwordless restricted user...
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| 23:53 | It could only be accessed by the TCs
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| 23:54 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i'm not seeing the traceback anymore... did you fix that?
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| 23:55 | <Ryan52> 0.o
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| 23:55 | <vagrantc> i definitely did see it when i first ran it
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| 23:55 | <Ryan52> [ryan52@newbie ~]$ /ldminfod >/dev/null
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| 23:55 | Traceback (most recent call last):
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| 23:55 | File "/ldminfod", line 226, in <module>
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| 23:55 | print lang_with_name(lang)
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| 23:56 | <vagrantc> when i run it without a redirect, i get no traceback...
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| 23:57 | <Ryan52> oh, ok then...
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| 23:58 | so then it's fine?
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| 23:58 | piping into less I get nothing other than language stuff
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| 23:58 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 23:58 | <Ryan52> $ /ldminfod | grep -v language
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| 23:58 | same thing.
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| 23:59 | <vagrantc> piping i get the traceback
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| 23:59 | * Ryan52 doesn't like python | |