IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 14 May 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:39 | <wvsfxr> Is it good practice to use a raspberry pi or beaglebone as thin clients?
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| 06:52 | <work_alkisg1> pi is a bit slow, works as thin but without localapps. beaglebone is better.
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| 07:08 | <wvsfxr> What is good and cheap thin client hardware to run ubuntu and watching youtube videos?
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| 07:17 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 07:17 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 07:17 | <alkisg> In other words, plain thin clients are not suitable for youtube
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| 07:18 | You need to have the browser and flash working as a localapp
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| 07:18 | I can't suggest any specific thin clients as we're using desktop PCs as ltsp clients here, wait for other people's suggestions...
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| 07:33 | <wvsfxr> I'm thinking about using ltsp at primary school. Youtube is really not a must have. I thought about it because it's the activity which uses the most resources. Moreover there are many useful educational sites unfortunately using flash. But this would not be a problem if there are good alternatives. Do you know some?
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| 07:33 | <alkisg> Alternatives to what? Flash or LTSP?
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| 07:34 | <wvsfxr> flash
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> Primary schools need a lot of multimedia apps, so we suggest to them to use fat clients instead
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| 07:34 | (we == the greek schools support team, not the ltsp team)
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| 07:34 | !fatclients
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| 07:34 | <ltsp`> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> LTSP fat clients need to have the same specs as normal linux installations, e.g. about 1 gb RAM etc
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| 09:09 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, any experience with pam_umask?
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| 09:10 | <DJUnreal> ooh
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| 09:10 | the Hyperbyte is awake
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| 09:10 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: I tried it once, it worked, but didn't bother with it again... also /me is kinda busy currently, preparing some seminar...
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| 09:15 | <wvsfxr> What is the real benefit of ltsp?
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| 09:16 | <elias_a_> Uhhh...
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| 09:16 | <DJUnreal> what /isn't/ the benefit?
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| 09:16 | <Hyperbyte> wvsfxr, depends on your use case.
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| 09:17 | * DJUnreal can write you a list... | |
| 09:17 | <elias_a_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Terminal_Server_Project
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| 09:17 | <Hyperbyte> Luckily, you don't have to write a list, DJUnreal.
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| 09:17 | It is already written: http://www.ltsp.org/benefits/
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| 09:17 | <DJUnreal> ahh
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| 09:17 | Thank You Hyperbyte
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| 09:17 | <Hyperbyte> See that link, wvsfxr :)
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| 09:17 | Also, DJUnreal, don't be arrogant. There are lots of disadvantages to using LTSP.
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| 09:19 | It just depends heavily on your use case. There are use cases where LTSP is truly a gift from the heavens above, and there are use cases where you simply shouldn't desire to use a terminal server environment.
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| 09:22 | * DJUnreal isn't being arrogant | |
| 09:27 | <elias_a_> In addition to that you might also want to consider the general suitability of client-server model in your case.
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| 09:28 | If you are running sw clients in workstations, forget thin clients.
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| 09:35 | <DJUnreal> of course, there's always a suitability study to be done before rolling stuff out
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| 09:36 | * DJUnreal needs to write some complex jiggery-pokery for his LTSP environment | |
| 09:36 | <wvsfxr> Does it make sence to use it for about 30 workstations. I wanted to use Ubuntu with Flash but now I would step back to trisquel with some lightweight graphical user interface. I want to reduce costs. Power consumption and maintainance are true benefits, but initial costs are to much. So I thought abou Raspberry Pi or Beagle Bone. I've never used Beagle Bone. With Raspberry Pi I don't understand how to boot it for use with LTSP.
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| 09:37 | elias_a_, what are sw clients in workstations?
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| 09:37 | <DJUnreal> ok... if you want to boot Pis from an LTSP server, you need to put a small image on the SD cards that can understand PXE (or an equivalent technology) for network booting
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| 09:37 | there are many howtos for that online
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| 09:38 | <elias_a_> wvsfxr: Like Lotus Notes clients or the like.
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| 09:38 | <DJUnreal> you'll also need an ARM build of your LTSP image
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| 09:42 | <garymc> Hi Guys I need to flush DNS cache on my LTSP server. How do I go about doing this?
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| 09:42 | UBUNTU
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> Do you have a DNS server installed?
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| 09:47 | (i.e. bind9 or dnsmasq)
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| 09:49 | <DJUnreal> Welcome Back garymc
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| 09:49 | [10:46] <alkisg> Do you have a DNS server installed?
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| 09:49 | [10:47] <alkisg> (i.e. bind9 or dnsmasq)
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| 14:33 | <unkmar> Ladies and Gentlemen. I have rebooted my ltsp system and.. Something is not starting when the system comes up.
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| 14:34 | alright. so what I gotta do to get tftpd-hpa to start at boot?
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| 14:38 | <unkmar> I will use rc.local and.. I guess I'll hope works. Thing is already deployed and they need to work. :(
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| 14:38 | <DJUnreal> unkmar: just seen your question
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| 14:38 | give me one minute, i've dealt with this before
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| 14:38 | <unkmar> DJUnreal: K
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| 14:39 | <DJUnreal> edit /etc/default/tftpd-hpa
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| 14:39 | and add
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| 14:39 | RUN_DAEMON="yes"
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| 14:39 | <unkmar> Cause it's just too hard to type both the O and K. :)
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| 14:39 | <DJUnreal> then restart both openbsd-inetd and tftpd-hpa
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| 14:39 | * DJUnreal has this on debian and it works nicely | |
| 14:41 | <unkmar> Thanks.
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| 14:41 | <DJUnreal> reboot your server to confirm
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| 14:41 | <unkmar> No. Clients are using it. :/
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| 14:41 | <DJUnreal> ahh ok
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| 14:41 | well it /should/ work
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| 14:42 | schedule an out of hours reboot
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| 14:42 | <unkmar> I only downed it to put behind a UPS.
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| 14:42 | * DJUnreal nods | |
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| 14:45 | <FN-Kitteh> bah
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| 14:45 | <DJUnreal> stupid DDoS still going on?
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| 15:31 | <DJUnreal> bah
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| 15:31 | <unkmar> yeah?
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| 15:31 | Feeling sheepish?
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| 15:32 | <DJUnreal> nah
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| 15:32 | bah as in humbug
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| 15:32 | <DJUnreal> as in stupid DDoS attacks or whatever it is that's knocking me off
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| 15:32 | <unkmar> nah. Um, goatish then. :)
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| 15:32 | <DJUnreal> netsplits etc
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| 15:33 | <unkmar> yeah, Netsplits suck.
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| 15:33 | <DJUnreal> they do, but they shouldn't disconnect me from the server
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| 15:33 | <DJUnreal> they should just split me into a shadow of the channel
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| 15:33 | Laughs Out Loud
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| 15:33 | <unkmar> I stopped hanging out in #vim because of it. I lose my nick. Have to change it and identify. Can't change nicks while in #vim unindentified.
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| 15:34 | * DJUnreal nods | |
| 15:34 | <DJUnreal> can you not link a second nick to your nickserv identify list?
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| 15:34 | and set your client to use the second nick if the first is unavailable?
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| 15:34 | <unkmar> more like a 3rd or 4th or.. Well, I was just a going to investigate that.
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| 15:35 | changing nicks real quick.
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| 15:35 | nick unkmar
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| 15:35 | * unkmar smacks forhead. FAIL! | |
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| 15:36 | <unkmar> well. That solves that problem. I already own my alternate nick. So, I should ID then change nicks.
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| 15:39 | <DJUnreal> you should
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| 15:39 | identify
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| 15:39 | muppis is now known as muppis_ | |
| 15:39 | <DJUnreal> then ghost yourself
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| 15:39 | then /nick
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| 15:40 | <unkmar> Usually no need to ghost. Generally several minutes to an hour pass before I realize the change happened.
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| 15:40 | <DJUnreal> ah fair enoguh
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| 15:40 | then yes
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| 15:40 | identify and then /nick
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| 15:43 | * DJUnreal has a question which some of you may be able to answer | |
| 15:44 | <DJUnreal> has anyone built a small kernel image
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| 15:44 | to hand out to pxe clients
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| 15:44 | which interrogates them for a few key bits of info
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| 15:44 | and then adds that to an lts.conf ?
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| 15:46 | * DJUnreal has a specific reason for wanting to do this | |
| 15:47 | * unkmar has not done anything like that. | |
| 15:49 | <DJUnreal> basically... i often go places and have unknown machines provided for me to use as my thinclients
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| 15:49 | now i /could/ build a 'safe' image for all the clients
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| 15:49 | but it'll be so archaic that it's quite frankly a waste of computing resources to run it on newer and potentially fat clients
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| 15:49 | so instead what i want to do
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| 15:50 | is have the machine boot a small kernel
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| 15:50 | run some custom scripts (like one which interrogates /proc/cpuinfo to find out cpu architecture and speed)
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| 15:50 | and another to work out how much RAM the machine has, what gfx card it uses etc
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| 15:50 | <muppis> Take a look at here. http://kernel-seeds.org/
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| 15:51 | <DJUnreal> and then dump the outputs of that back into my dhcpd.conf and lts.conf files
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| 15:51 | followed by an automatic reboot
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| 15:51 | followed by coming back up with a now-identified-and-configured-mac-address
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| 15:51 | so probably needing a dhcpd restart in the process
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| 15:52 | <unkmar> DJUnreal: sounds complicated. Creating a bitcoin farm? :P
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| 15:52 | <DJUnreal> no
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| 15:52 | * DJUnreal runs his LTSP environment for scout groups | |
| 15:52 | <DJUnreal> and we go to various different sites
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| 15:52 | <unkmar> Cool
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| 15:52 | <DJUnreal> with various different machines to use as clients
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| 15:52 | and we just rock up with our server stack
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| 15:52 | so rather than sending my boys round to write down all the MAC addresses and manually harvest all the info
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| 15:53 | i want to just get them to turn on PXE boot
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| 15:53 | and then have them automatically configure the image they're going to receive
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| 15:53 | the reason for graphics identification is because the kids tend to like to play flash games
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| 15:53 | which suck if you don't have proper drivers for the cards the machines have in them
| |
| 15:54 | plus... it looks far more professional if we're not sat there shouting MACs at each other or scribbling furiously on bits of paper
| |
| 15:55 | muppis: i'll take a look :)
| |
| 15:55 | For What It's Worth i run http://www.scoutinternetsupport.org.uk
| |
| 15:55 | proudly powered by LTSP
| |
| 15:56 | <unkmar> DJUnreal: That has got to be some serious geek going on. Setup a camera before hand next time. I'd watch a video of a bunch of kids shouting MACs for about a minute. GeekScouts.
| |
| 15:57 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 15:57 | <DJUnreal> we've timelapsed the setup of our systems at an event before now
| |
| 15:59 | oh... and just to show we do cool stuff (including IRC) at some events
| |
| 15:59 | https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=459619480757537&set=a.459619360757549.115886.229400953779392&type=3&theater
| |
| 15:59 | me running a radio show at a scout camp
| |
| 16:00 | <unkmar> I have some speakers just like that.
| |
| 16:00 | Nice keyboard.
| |
| 16:04 | <DJUnreal> HeHe
| |
| 16:04 | Cyborg V7
| |
| 16:04 | and under my hand is a Cyborg R.A.T. 9
| |
| 16:04 | * DJUnreal doesn't do things by halves | |
| 16:04 | * DJUnreal would LOVE to replace the cyborg V7 with a S.T.R.I.K.E. 7 | |
| 16:05 | <DJUnreal> but i can't justify that kinda dosh
| |
| 16:05 | * unkmar wanders what is on right screen. The large colorful text window. | |
| 16:05 | stgraber has left IRC (stgraber!~stgraber@ubuntu/member/stgraber, Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | |
| 16:05 | <DJUnreal> that's IRC
| |
| 16:06 | <unkmar> s/wanders/wonders.
| |
| 16:06 | * DJUnreal uses QuackScript as a script-set on top of mIRC | |
| 16:06 | <unkmar> Hmm why so colorful?
| |
| 16:06 | <DJUnreal> the network I'm on there get upset if you idle
| |
| 16:06 | so names turn yellow after 20 mins
| |
| 16:06 | orange after 25
| |
| 16:06 | red after 30
| |
| 16:06 | text i send is white
| |
| 16:06 | text i see from others is yellow
| |
| 16:07 | emotive text is grey unless i send it in which case it's white
| |
| 16:07 | text containing my nick is dark cyan
| |
| 16:07 | <unkmar> mIRC, I haven't used that in years. been using irssi since I move to linux.
| |
| 16:07 | <DJUnreal> quits are purple
| |
| 16:07 | <jammcq> DJUnreal: that's pretty cool
| |
| 16:07 | <DJUnreal> joins are orange
| |
| 16:07 | parts are green
| |
| 16:07 | jammcq: i like to do things properly
| |
| 16:08 | if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. if it's not worth doing, give it to my brother
| |
| 16:08 | <unkmar> LOL
| |
| 16:08 | <DJUnreal> the person i suggest giving jobs to often changes
| |
| 16:09 | but the phrase tends to be fairly similar
| |
| 16:09 | but yeah
| |
| 16:09 | that's why i use LTSP
| |
| 16:09 | and that's why i need a base kernel i can get to do clever things
| |
| 16:10 | * DJUnreal will put ssh keys in it for root, just so it can talk back to update the relevant files | |
| 16:10 | <DJUnreal> i'd rather my genesis kernel (name xCAT2 uses for its minikernel) talks back as root for a very short time, than my dhcpd.conf and lts.conf files be open to all users
| |
| 16:11 | especially if the minikernel can be locked down so it won't take any input at all
| |
| 16:11 | of course... i may have to do something a little more sophisticated
| |
| 16:12 | like script it to write to a different file
| |
| 16:12 | then have a cron that runs every 15 seconds to parse that other file, and if it changes, tack it onto the relevant part of dhcpd.conf and lts.conf and then restart dhcpd
| |
| 16:12 | wiping the file clean afterwards
| |
| 16:13 | but an ininterruptable autoscript kernel should do the job
| |
| 16:13 | uninterruptable even
| |
| 16:13 | freedomrun has left IRC (freedomrun!~freedomru@unaffiliated/freedomrun, Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish) | |
| 16:14 | <unkmar> ^^^ 42
| |
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| 16:14 | * DJUnreal laughs | |
| 16:14 | <DJUnreal> so sad that it should come to this...
| |
| 16:15 | <unkmar> That is still quite crazy. Starting a story off with the destruction of the Earth. Like, WHAT? :)
| |
| 16:15 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 16:15 | <DJUnreal> so... did you like the photo on our website of the "field test"?
| |
| 16:15 | <unkmar> Yes.
| |
| 16:16 | <DJUnreal> that was a VERY small-scale rig
| |
| 16:16 | nothing major... twin switches linked with 10Gbit fibre
| |
| 16:16 | two eServer x346s
| |
| 16:17 | incidentally... 10G fibre runs nicely across the top of a tent if you hang it from the poles in cable-tie loops
| |
| 16:21 | </geek>
| |
| 16:22 | <unkmar> Like </geek> is possible in a channel like this. :D
| |
| 16:22 | <DJUnreal> ;)
| |
| 16:22 | well it was worth a try
| |
| 16:26 | and on that note
| |
| 16:26 | i'm going home
| |
| 16:27 | <unkmar> be safe
| |
| 16:27 | <DJUnreal> i'll try
| |
| 16:27 | got an hour on the motorbike
| |
| 16:27 | ;)
| |
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| 16:38 | <digitalirony> Hello, I am trying to edit the LDM greeter. I basically want to disable the 'preferences' button. Is there documentation on the greeter-gtkrc file somewhere? Or does someone know how to do this?
| |
| 16:41 | and also I think ltsp.org is down
| |
| 16:42 | Phantomas has left IRC (Phantomas!~Phantomas@ubuntu/member/phantomas, Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | |
| 16:42 | <jammcq> hmmm
| |
| 16:43 | <Enslaver> no bueno
| |
| 16:43 | <digitalirony> que es no bueno?
| |
| 16:43 | <Enslaver> el downtime
| |
| 16:43 | <digitalirony> ahh yeah
| |
| 16:44 | <Enslaver> S3 hosting time
| |
| 16:44 | <unkmar> I don't know spanish and yet I understood that.
| |
| 16:44 | <digitalirony> doesn't even have a static failover in front either :/
| |
| 16:45 | <Enslaver> About to push 5.4.5-20 release for EL6 to EPEL
| |
| 16:45 | just passed its 2 week testing phase
| |
| 16:45 | <jammcq> ok, ltsp.org is back up
| |
| 16:45 | Enslaver: excellent!
| |
| 16:45 | <digitalirony> thanks jammcq
| |
| 16:46 | <Enslaver> The EL6 community seems to be getting bigger and bigger, i've had a few people come to me already wanting to help out with the development
| |
| 16:46 | <jammcq> hmm, all I did was restart apache. I think I'll reboot the machine. our hosting provider was doing some maintenance last weekend and said we may need to reboot afterwards
| |
| 16:46 | <digitalirony> jammcq: did the logs say anything?
| |
| 16:50 | ltsp has joined IRC (ltsp!bot@ltsp.org) | |
| 16:51 | <Enslaver> seems stable, i like the fact it supports both 4.2 and 5
| |
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| 16:55 | <digitalirony> I wanna try the gecko surfboards
| |
| 16:55 | only $120 each, and much cheaper in bulk
| |
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| 17:01 | <gvy> hm, interesting
| |
| 17:02 | <digitalirony> if I can get the LTSP working here pretty well, I am gonna think about just replacing all of the workstations with those surfboards instead of new PC's
| |
| 17:02 | <Enslaver> raspberry pi's are only $35
| |
| 17:03 | <digitalirony> yeah, but they don't have built in keyboards....and believe it or not we spend a lot on keyboards
| |
| 17:03 | <Enslaver> on keyboards?
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| 17:03 | keyboards are like $5
| |
| 17:03 | <digitalirony> and I am not sure how easy it will be to get 100 raspbery pi's
| |
| 17:03 | right
| |
| 17:04 | but these asshat students here always kick the damn cables and fuck them up bad
| |
| 17:04 | the surfboard doesn't have cables
| |
| 17:04 | cept power and monitor
| |
| 17:05 | <Enslaver> what about something like the lapdock?
| |
| 17:05 | http://liliputing.com/2012/06/turn-a-raspberry-pi-into-laptop-with-a-70-motorola-lapdock.html
| |
| 17:06 | mass order rasp's: http://www.alliedelec.com/lp/120626raso/
| |
| 17:06 | <digitalirony> hrmm the lapdocs are neat, but kinda ugly I think
| |
| 17:06 | <jammcq> skanous | DOSESPOT | npi | 1043278476 | f | 2012-09-14 17:41:27.086135-04 | 2012-09-14 17:41:27.086135-04
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| 17:07 | <digitalirony> if I was gonna go that route, I think I would buy one of the stick PC's
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| 17:07 | <jammcq> ooops :)
| |
| 17:07 | <gvy> digitalirony, you probably need wall-mounted
| |
| 17:07 | erm... either PCs or students
| |
| 17:07 | <digitalirony> lol
| |
| 17:07 | the students wouldn't like if I wall mounted them
| |
| 17:07 | lol
| |
| 17:08 | well, some of the women might....
| |
| 17:08 | but thats just a law suit waiting to happen
| |
| 17:10 | hrmm jammcq I think website died again?
| |
| 17:11 | hrmm no, it just going slow
| |
| 17:11 | <jammcq> yeah, it's just dreadfully slow
| |
| 17:11 | <digitalirony> do you guys need/want help with that?
| |
| 17:14 | <gvy> jammcq, just in case, nginx as a reverse proxy helps immensely with reducing the number of almost idle apache children trinkling the already-generated content into slowish [mobile/dialup] clients
| |
| 17:14 | *trickling
| |
| 17:14 | <digitalirony> yeah
| |
| 17:14 | adrianorg_ has joined IRC (adrianorg_!~adrianorg@177.156.231.243) | |
| 17:14 | <digitalirony> and if your website can support using it, memcached
| |
| 17:15 | <gvy> folks at mozilla.ru persuaded me look in that direction by claiming their capability increased 7x or so
| |
| 17:15 | <digitalirony> I worked for hostgator and rackspace as LAMP admin heh
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| 17:15 | for over 2 years
| |
| 17:15 | that was intense stuff
| |
| 17:16 | <unkmar> I'm experiencing a WOMM error in my website development. Works On My Machine.
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| 17:16 | andygraybeal has joined IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h153.229.22.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) | |
| 17:17 | <digitalirony> prolly missing lib
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| 17:17 | or different versions of php etc
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| 17:18 | adrianorg has left IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@177.156.231.243, Ping timeout: 252 seconds) | |
| 17:18 | <digitalirony> compare copies of an info.php file on your home machine, vs the remote
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| 17:47 | <DJUnreal> yeesh
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| 17:47 | you lot have been busy whilst i was gone
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| 18:46 | * DJUnreal stretches | |
| 18:46 | * unkmar yawns | |
| 18:46 | <unkmar> Nice to see you made it home safely.
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| 18:46 | <DJUnreal> been here an hour...
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| 18:47 | Laughs Out Loud
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| 19:18 | * DJUnreal considers cooking | |
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| 19:47 | <lykwydchykyn> On Ubuntu 12.04, I need to support some non-pae clients
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| 19:48 | <lykwydchykyn> I added linux-image-generic to my build list, but it still installs the pae kernel
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| 19:48 | is there some switch I can pass to ltsp-build-client to uninstall or not install the pae kernel?
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| 19:50 | <||cw> lykwydchykyn: you mean like an old 586?
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| 19:51 | <lykwydchykyn> No, a pentium-M
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| 19:52 | <||cw> ah. yet another ubuntu bad default
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| 19:52 | first cmov, now pae
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| 19:52 | um... I think there is a flag to ltsp-build-client to control packages, I don't know it off the top of my head though
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| 19:55 | <digitalirony> hrmm
| |
| 19:56 | <lykwydchykyn> There are flags to add additional packages to the build, but I don't see a flag to block or remove packages.
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| 19:56 | <digitalirony> wouldn't you have to modify the dhcp server to serv a different boot image based on the mac?
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| 19:56 | <lykwydchykyn> I suppose I can chroot in and remove the pae kernel, but I'm trying to make this a hands-free rebuild
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| 19:57 | The thing is, I don't need PAE for any of my clients; none of them have more than 2GB of RAM
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| 19:57 | <digitalirony> oh
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| 19:58 | I bet you will have to do that manually if you want it to work
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| 19:58 | heh
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| 19:58 | iunno, im new to LTSP
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| 20:00 | im THINKING though, that you may have to chroot, then install a diff kernel
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| 20:01 | <digitalirony> lykwydchykyn: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man8/ltsp-build-client.8.html iunno if you have seen that?
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| 20:02 | but they have a --dist and a --arch flag, not sure what you can pass to those though
| |
| 20:02 | <lykwydchykyn> Oh I've seen it once or thrice
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| 20:03 | <digitalirony> but I don't see anything actually kernel specific
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| 20:03 | <lykwydchykyn> --dist let's you choose a release, which seems kind of useless since (IME) it only actually works with the same release.
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| 20:04 | my --arch is i386
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| 20:06 | <lykwydchykyn> Would be nice if there was a way to view possible values for --arch, or at least some documentation to that effect.
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| 20:06 | <lykwydchykyn> Sorry, I'm getting ranty
| |
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| 20:07 | <||cw> ltsp-build-client --extra-help ?
| |
| 20:08 | maybe --exclude the non-pae package?
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| 20:09 | <lykwydchykyn> You mean --exclude the pae kernel?
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| 20:09 | <||cw> er, yeah
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| 20:10 | <lykwydchykyn> I'll give that a shot; thanks, I missed the --exclude option
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| 20:10 | <||cw> though really, juts build the chroot, then modify it as needed before building the image
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| 20:11 | <lykwydchykyn> The thing is, I'm trying to script this to avoid errors.
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| 20:11 | <digitalirony> I suggest you learn expect then
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| 20:11 | heh
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| 20:11 | <||cw> you really need to run it more than once?
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| 20:11 | <digitalirony> it will make it much easier
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| 20:12 | you can script it using expect
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| 20:12 | <lykwydchykyn> I've had to patch on so many fixes and so forth that yes, I have to rebuild these dadgum things regularly
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| 20:13 | <||cw> can't just apply the patches in the chroot?
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| 20:14 | <lykwydchykyn> What I mean ||cw is that I have had to make so many changes to the chroot to fix problems over the years that remembering them all every time I rebuild the image is a mess.
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| 20:14 | What I do now is maintain a script that builds the image with all the fixes and tweaks in place.
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| 20:15 | <digitalirony> well, why not make a script, and run it from inside of the chroot?
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| 20:15 | <lykwydchykyn> Because not all the fixes are inside the chroot
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| 20:16 | <digitalirony> well, maybe you need two scripts :/
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| 20:16 | <lykwydchykyn> If I can have one, that's a lot better
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| 20:16 | <lykwydchykyn> Hence my initial question, which is hopefully answered by the --exclude switch
| |
| 20:16 | <digitalirony> or like I said, you can learn expect, and you can pass 'focus' between threads and such
| |
| 20:17 | with expect, you could run your script outside of the chroot, and it would chroot, and still run commands, and send them to the chroot
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| 20:17 | <lykwydchykyn> To a limited extent, I can already script things in the chroot from outside with ltsp-chroot
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| 20:18 | <digitalirony> yeah, but I see your bug here
| |
| 20:18 | <||cw> lykwydchykyn: can this not be solved simply by putting the non-pae kernel in the pxe config?
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| 20:18 | <digitalirony> but the documentation seems limited
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| 20:18 | and as do your options
| |
| 20:18 | <||cw> I'm not sure why the presense of a pae kernel would affect anything
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| 20:18 | <digitalirony> thats what I was thinking too
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| 20:18 | but I just assumed it didn't work on the intel-m or something
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| 20:19 | <lykwydchykyn> I suppose that might be an option.
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| 20:19 | <||cw> well, it's a file setting there un-used
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| 20:19 | <digitalirony> but as long as its not booted into it, I don't see why it matters?
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| 20:19 | as long as you set the non-pae to default/boot
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| 20:19 | <||cw> you can have both kernels installed, and control what clients get what kernel in pxe
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| 20:20 | <digitalirony> and you could even serv different pxe from your dhcp server based on mac address
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| 20:20 | <lykwydchykyn> I don't really need any of them booting to a pae kernel
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| 20:20 | <digitalirony> then just set them all to boot to non pae?
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| 20:20 | <lykwydchykyn> I'll try that if the exclude thing doesn't work
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> lykwydchykyn: do you have the wrongly built chroot handy, to post the results of some package versions?
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| 20:24 | <lykwydchykyn> you mean the one with the pae kernel?
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 20:24 | /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/020-kernel-selection supposedly selects the non-pae kernel...
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| 20:25 | And I'm also wondering if you got the normal xorg, or the -lts-quantal one
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| 20:26 | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l 'linux*' xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-lts-quantal | grep ^ii
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| 20:27 | <lykwydchykyn> No quantal stuff
| |
| 20:27 | I'm using the 3.2 kernel
| |
| 20:27 | <alkisg> What's the output of that command?
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| 20:28 | <lykwydchykyn> Where can I paste it?
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> !pastebin
| |
| 20:28 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 20:29 | <lykwydchykyn> http://pastebin.com/R6Frwpx6
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| 20:29 | should /usr/share/ltsp/plugins be on the server or chroot?
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> Server
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> Does this show an "ok" at the end? sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-cache show linux-image-generic && echo ok
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| 20:31 | <digitalirony> hrmm
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| 20:31 | do you have only pae kernels installed?
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> And also, why the headers? Are you building a fat chroot?
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| 20:32 | <lykwydchykyn> yep, it says ok
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| 20:32 | I have the headers because I have some dkms packages
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| 20:32 | nvidia-current and the r8168 driver for some NICs
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| 20:33 | BTW --exclude did not work to prevent the pae kernel from installing
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| 20:34 | <alkisg> It should default to the non-pae kernel anyway, so something else is probably wrong there
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| 20:35 | <digitalirony> well, im going on break, good luck. I will be interested to see how this turns out though o.0
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> Are you using --arch=i386?
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| 20:36 | <lykwydchykyn> I hadn't specified, but the server is running 32bit
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| 20:36 | Can --arch specify pae or non-pae?
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> Try with --arch=i386
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| 20:38 | I have a feeling that without that, ARCH is empty, and that's why the not pae kernel is not selected
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| 20:38 | <lykwydchykyn> alrighty; it'll take a bit to rerun the script, we'll see
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> DJUnreal: you can have pxelinux.cfg/default point to a non-pae 32 bit kernel with a customized initrd, that would contain an init-bottom script that detects what you want, and then `nc` the info back to your server, and reboot,
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| 20:54 | and an inetd-based daemon that gets the output of nc, and creates customized pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address files with all the needed info
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| 20:54 | <digitalirony> does anyone know about modifying LDM themes/greeter?
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| 20:54 | I want to disable the 'preferences' button
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| 20:54 | <DJUnreal> alkisg: that sounds about right
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| 20:54 | <alkisg> DJUnreal: That way each client is only able to modify a single file under pxelinux.cfg/, they don't mess with your lts.conf or dhcpd.conf
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| 20:55 | All known clients boot with pxelinux.cfg/01-xxx, and all unknown with the generic kernel + initrd,
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| 20:55 | and you can add the lts.conf options you want in the kernel command line
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| 20:56 | digitalirony: all of it? or just the session and language bits?
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| 20:56 | (because the last 2 are configurable from lts.conf)
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| 20:57 | <digitalirony> I just want to remove the ability for someone to change the preferences
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| 20:57 | my users are tarded, and I don't want them changing the backend, or session options
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> LDM_FORCE_SESSION then, it hides that menu
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| 20:58 | <digitalirony> sweet
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> man lts.conf
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| 20:58 | <digitalirony> is that documented?
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 20:58 | <digitalirony> I didn't see that one there
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| 20:58 | just defualt
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| 20:58 | default
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| 20:58 | <DJUnreal> alkisg: i need to keep this semi-idiot-friendly for my admins... hence wanting to update the lts.conf
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| 20:58 | <lykwydchykyn> Ok, specifying the --arch didn't make any difference
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> digitalirony: I updated the docs after 12.04, look in 12.10 or in wheezy docs
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| 20:58 | <DJUnreal> it's bad enough having two .conf files for the i386 and amd64 archs
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| 20:58 | <digitalirony> ahh ok
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| 20:58 | thanks
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| 20:59 | <lykwydchykyn> I'm still getting only the pae kernel
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> DJUnreal: you may put ltsp.like=section1,section2 entries in the kernel command line, so that lts.conf is used, without having the clients write to it
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| 21:00 | <digitalirony> alkisg: it only hides the session menu though right?
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> digitalirony: there's another one for the language, and I think there's something to hide the backend too
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| 21:01 | <DJUnreal> ahh, i'm with you now
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| 21:01 | <digitalirony> I was looking for one for the backend
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| 21:01 | language is fine
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> lykwydchykyn: I'd consider that a bug... but no time to troubleshoot now
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| 21:01 | <digitalirony> I don't see a force_server
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| 21:01 | <DJUnreal> so i can pass the LIKE entries through the kernel options instead of in the file, but at the same time maintain the same ease of management
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> digitalirony: LDM_FORCE_BACKEND, I don't know if that one is documented though
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| 21:02 | <digitalirony> its an actual setting though?
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| 21:03 | do you know what the options/format is?
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> ldm.c: /* if a backend is forced, leave no choice */
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| 21:03 | if (!getenv("LDM_FORCE_BACKEND")) {
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| 21:03 | <digitalirony> sweet, thanks man
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| 21:03 | * DJUnreal would assume alkisg knows the options/format since he wrote it? | |
| 21:03 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 21:03 | <alkisg> DJUnreal: nah, I try to stay away from the ldm source code :)
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| 21:04 | I'm looking forward to the pam-based authentication plugin...
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| 21:04 | <DJUnreal> try but fail?
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> digitalirony: try "ssh" there
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| 21:04 | <digitalirony> k
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> Yeah a couple of times I had to dive into its source :D
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| 21:04 | * DJUnreal laughs | |
| 21:05 | <digitalirony> is it a string?
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| 21:05 | like requires quotes?
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| 21:05 | meh, I will just try it
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> LDM_FORCE_BACKEND=ssh or "ssh", lts.conf doesn't care about quotes or not
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| 21:06 | XRANDR_MODE_0=1024x768 or "1024x768", whatever you prefer
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| 21:06 | <DJUnreal> it seems like lts.conf is indifferent to a lot of things
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| 21:06 | spaces, tabs, quotes...
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| 21:07 | all the usual stuff :)
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| 21:07 | <digitalirony> just making sure :P
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| 21:10 | <lykwydchykyn> alkisg: at what point in the boot process is it supposed to fall back to the non-pae kernel? I'm just wondering if my edits to the pxelinux.cfg file are affecting this feature.
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| 21:11 | <alkisg> lykwydchykyn: well, you only have the -pae kernel, so pxelinux.cfg/default will only have that
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| 21:11 | If you had both kernels, then pxelinux.cfg/default would point to the non-pae one
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| 21:11 | And it's possible to autodetect the kernel to use with ifcpu64
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| 21:12 | The next thing to do is to run ltsp-build-client with debug output, to check why it doesn't install the non-pae kernel
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| 21:12 | <DJUnreal> wait wait wait...
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| 21:12 | ifcpu64 detects cpu architecture?
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| 21:12 | <alkisg> Yup, and can load 32bit/pae/64bit accordingly
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| 21:13 | <DJUnreal> that's the single biggest thing i've been trying to achieve!!!
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> ltsp supports that with ltsp-update-kernels.conf
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| 21:13 | ...and with that, /me waves goodnight to all....
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| 21:13 | <DJUnreal> thanks alkisg!
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| 21:13 | <lykwydchykyn> thanks for the help
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| 21:16 | <digitalirony> damn
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| 21:17 | the LDM_FORCE_SESSION doesn't work :/
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| 21:17 | <DJUnreal> it should do
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| 21:17 | it did for me
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| 21:17 | <digitalirony> maybe its my version
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| 21:17 | the force backend totally worked
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| 21:18 | <DJUnreal> hrmm
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| 21:18 | what are you passing to ldm_force_session?
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| 21:18 | <digitalirony> gnome-classic
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| 21:19 | as listed in /usr/share/xesssions/
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| 21:19 | its ubuntu 12.04 ltsp25
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| 21:22 | <DJUnreal> i wonder if force_session only works on newer versions
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| 21:26 | <digitalirony> thats what I was thinking
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| 21:26 | meh
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| 21:26 | when I go live with it, I will just run it off 12.10
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| 21:27 | i really would prefer it run off LTS though :/
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| 21:27 | <DJUnreal> can you not install a newer ltsp on an older ubuntu?
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| 21:28 | <digitalirony> not if you want it to be managed with apt I don't think
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| 21:28 | or getting really messy
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| 21:28 | if imma do that, I will just build it on arch o.0
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| 21:29 | <DJUnreal> i see
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| 21:29 | or, if you felt like stabbing yourself repeatedly in the eye with a needle... you could do it on gentoo
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| 21:29 | <digitalirony> noooo thanks
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| 21:29 | see, thats why I like arch lolol
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| 21:29 | its like gentoo + debian
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| 21:30 | <DJUnreal> why not just make life easy and use debian like a sane person would? :P
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| 21:30 | <digitalirony> it has all the flexibiltiy of gentoo, and much of the feel of debian
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| 21:30 | debian is too old sometimes
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| 21:30 | <DJUnreal> too old for what?
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| 21:30 | <digitalirony> new features
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| 21:30 | lol
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| 21:30 | <DJUnreal> features like what?
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| 21:31 | <digitalirony> I can't think anything off the top of my head, but I used debian for 8 years
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| 21:31 | and I have switched to arch, because on debian when I try to install something that isn't in the repos
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| 21:31 | I have a hell of time getting it to work with the old versions that are considered 'stable'
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| 21:31 | <DJUnreal> and /that's/ why i use testing
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| 21:32 | <digitalirony> have you never heard the joke " Yo mommas so old, Debian added her to the stable repository!"
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| 21:32 | * lykwydchykyn LOLs | |
| 21:32 | <digitalirony> yeah, but then testing has its own issues too
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| 21:32 | * DJUnreal hadn't heard that until now | |
| 21:32 | <DJUnreal> and i've never yet had a problem with debian testing :)
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| 21:32 | <digitalirony> iunno, DJUnreal I had this same arguement with a friend of mine
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| 21:33 | then I actually just tried arch
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| 21:33 | * DJUnreal grins | |
| 21:33 | <digitalirony> and now im good
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| 21:33 | lol
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| 21:33 | <DJUnreal> i'm just working on personal experience
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| 21:33 | <digitalirony> I know
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| 21:33 | <DJUnreal> i've been using debian testing and the latest kernels for a while and it's never caused me issues :)
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| 21:33 | <digitalirony> I said all the same things you did, but, sometimes you can't see the shit around you unless you look from outside
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| 21:34 | that is to say "You can't really ever see the forest while inside the forest"
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| 21:34 | lykwydchykyn has left IRC (lykwydchykyn!~user@72.237.174.2, Quit: throwing in the towel for today) | |
| 21:35 | <DJUnreal> two blondes are out walking. one says to the other "isn't that a lovely forest?" and the other replies "what forest? I can't see, there's too many trees in the way!"
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| 21:38 | conversation died at 22:36
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| 21:38 | <digitalirony> lol
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| 21:38 | I was just reading this crazy news story
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| 21:39 | about IRS scandal
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| 21:39 | * DJUnreal sings o/" Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy... o/" | |
| 21:40 | <digitalirony> heh
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| 21:40 | now a video with men simulating labor pain
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| 21:40 | lol
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