IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 April 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:46 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc, hi all
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| 12:42 | <ltspuser_85> hey guys! i'm checking out ltsp whether it's worth deplying or not and i can't see to figure out, how kerberos authentication (with different krb5.keytab for each host) ans ltsp will actually work togeter
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| 12:42 | can somebody help me?
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| 12:42 | ltspuser_85 is now known as luette | |
| 12:44 | <andygraybeal> yea, i don't understand the kerberos stuff either
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| 12:44 | but as far as administrative overhead... ltsp is a godsend.
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| 12:44 | <luette> that's right and thyt's why i would love, if kerberos does work with it
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| 12:44 | <andygraybeal> no more harddrives that die in the client machines, no more ghosted images to keep track of
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| 12:44 | <luette> 'cause i can't change the whole server setup here
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| 12:44 | <andygraybeal> oh kerby does work.. i just don't know how to do it
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| 12:44 | other guys in here do it
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| 12:46 | <luette> well, i got kerberos login working for one machine, but with different clients, i need different keytabs to be deployed as the machine boots and i don't know how to do that
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| 12:48 | <andygraybeal> just be patient and hang out maybe someone will answer.. there is also a mail list https://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=17723&source=navbar
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| 12:48 | i would like to learn to implement ldap/kerb myself.. but i don't see it happening.
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| 12:49 | <andygraybeal> lots of good help here on freenode and this channel is no exception :)
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| 12:51 | <luette> great! well, i'll just sit around a bit and wait ^^
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| 12:52 | <andygraybeal> i think it's exciting that your getting kerberos to work with ltsp :)
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| 12:53 | what does the keytabs do?
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| 12:54 | <luette> they authenticate the host against kerberos
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| 12:55 | i'm not that good at understanding how kerberos work though
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| 12:55 | +s
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| 12:56 | <andygraybeal> so each client has it's own identity? that might be handled in lts.conf file
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| 12:59 | <andygraybeal> http://blog.projectz.me/2013/01/06/setting-up-an-ubuntu-thin-client-server/
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| 12:59 | i don't think that will help, but i don't know.
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| 12:59 | it's fairly recent
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| 13:02 | <luette> i'll have a look at it, but as it seems, it handles how to get ltsp working with windows. we are purely using linux here
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| 13:03 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 13:03 | i thuoght maybe the config files would help
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| 13:03 | just to look over
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| 13:04 | <luette> wenn, i also still got problems compiling the openafs-module in the chroot, but hey, one step after another x)
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| 13:04 | <andygraybeal> omg, you use openafs?! that is badass
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| 13:04 | who are you?
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| 13:04 | you sound awesome
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| 13:04 | your way more advanced that i could hope.
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| 13:05 | <luette> no way! i got into an existing setup and had to arrange myself with it
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| 13:05 | <andygraybeal> i was at ucsc for a time and got to experience openafs :)
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| 13:05 | i was very grateful
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| 13:05 | <luette> we are 3 or 4 and i'm no expert in setting up the servers, but configuring our workstations to use it, that i can do ^^
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| 13:09 | <andygraybeal> is keytab file different for each client?
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| 13:10 | <luette> jep
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| 13:10 | each keytab holds the identity (hostname) of that specific client
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| 13:11 | with fai it was no problem. there i counld use naming convention to install host-specific files but with ltsp...
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| 13:11 | <andygraybeal> fai?
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| 13:12 | <luette> http://fai-project.org/
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| 13:13 | quite nice but not as neat as ltsp ^^
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| 13:13 | <andygraybeal> well... i'm sure someone knows here and i think the config is controlled in lts.conf file
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| 13:15 | i'm hoping that us talking about it gets more people involved in the conversation :)
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| 13:16 | <luette> that would be awesome
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| 13:16 | ;)
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| 13:16 | <andygraybeal> i don't see any thing in the lts.conf file that mentions kerberos
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| 13:17 | <andygraybeal> http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/1gnMAFPqKHE66QEGvz4s <---
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| 13:19 | <luette> hmm
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| 13:20 | <andygraybeal> maybe there is a patch that would need to be written for you
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| 13:20 | these guys could do it if it isn't already part of the system
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| 13:20 | because they are basically gods.
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| 13:22 | <luette> i bookmarked this page. maybe this works. thx, i didn't find this one
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| 13:25 | <andygraybeal> hmm.. i think i'm having apparmour issues not allowing me to use a eth device
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| 13:25 | for my kvm :(
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| 13:25 | i don't understand apparmour.... but now i need to learn.
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| 13:27 | <luette> sry, can't help you with that :/
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| 13:28 | <andygraybeal> oh it's fine .. i'm trying to get a kvm ltsp machine running :)
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| 13:43 | <||cw> I'm no apparmour expert, but my understanding is that you just need to right a new "rule" (config file?) to tell it about the app and what it's allowed to do.
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| 13:45 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 13:45 | <||cw> I'd start by finding an existing app in /etc/apparmor.d/ that's similar is access requirements and copying it
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| 13:46 | several are very well commented
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| 13:51 | <muppis> Afaik installing kvm and libvirt-bin will install proper apparmor profile as well. To use eth devices in virtual and host at same time it's needs to be bridged and use that device in both.
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| 13:55 | <muppis> http://pastebin.com/Yi2ViPXW -- This is my /etc/network/interfaces with IPs removed.
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| 13:59 | <luette> sadly, i have to go now. have a nice day!
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| 14:48 | <dyllan> hi guys
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| 14:49 | <andygraybeal> hi dyllan
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| 14:50 | <dyllan> I have a basic ltsp install, build my client image etc, I now want to install ubuntu-desktop. Strange thing I noticed is that if I try install ubuntu-desktop on the server side it wants to pull in many more packages, things like libreoffice and firefox for example, whereas when I try install in the chroot environment it doesnt include those applications.
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| 14:50 | ie. apt-get install ubuntu-desktop from within the chroot environment it install a lot less applications, this is preferred for me but I would like to do it on the server.
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| 14:53 | <andygraybeal> are you running fat clients or thin clients?
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| 14:55 | <dyllan> thin clients
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| 14:56 | I found this, seems to omit those packages, am I on the right track: sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends ubuntu-desktop
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| 14:58 | <ogra_> you are
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| 14:58 | the thin client chroot omits installation of recommends to keep it smaller
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| 14:59 | apt in there is configured that way
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| 14:59 | <dyllan> excellent!
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| 14:59 | thanks very much
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| 14:59 | <ogra_> well, good job in tracking it down yourself :)
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| 15:01 | <dyllan> thanks :)
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| 17:04 | <dyllan> hi guys.
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| 17:05 | <andygraybeal> heya dyllan
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| 17:05 | <dyllan> You have probably been asked this a lot. I am trying to lockdown wallpaper of a default ltsp setup. I have done it in the past with 11.04 and gconf-editor. Unfortunately with 12.04 it does not seem to work, google points to dconf but that froze up my ldm, so I am a bit stuck, any ideas.
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| 17:05 | hi andygraybeal :)
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| 17:06 | <andygraybeal> dyllan, curious, (has nthing to do with your question) are you using fallback mode?
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| 17:07 | <dyllan> andygraybeal, no i am not, howcome?
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| 17:08 | <andygraybeal> i am trying to make my own decision .. to use the gnome-fallback or mate desktop environment right now.
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| 17:08 | are you using gnome 2d?
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| 17:09 | maybe i'm confused
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| 17:09 | nevermind
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| 17:09 | <dyllan> andygraybeal, what are your reasons to wanting to use the fallback. Yup we using 2d with 100 thin clients at this office and running all from server, may run some more powerful thin clients chrome as a local-app
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| 17:09 | <andygraybeal> i'm not sure, i thought there was problems with things.
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| 17:10 | but your using regular new gnome?
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| 17:10 | er.. but i mean the 2d version
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| 17:10 | that is cool
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| 17:10 | maybe that is what i will do.
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| 17:10 | i haven't decided what to do yet.
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| 17:10 | <dyllan> using 2d without issues, what issues are you expecting?
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| 17:10 | <andygraybeal> alkisg says stick with 10.04 for now :) sbalneav says go with Mate
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| 17:11 | dyllan, just generally ignorance and fud.
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| 17:11 | <dyllan> alkisg knows his stuff
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| 17:11 | not that sbalneav doesn't, but i have chatted more with alkisg
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| 17:11 | <andygraybeal> that is why i'm taking a poll.. of the folks using 12.04 for my personal reasons :)
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| 17:11 | <dyllan> yea 10.04 just works, we upgrading from 10.04 to 12.04 now, some challenges :)
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| 17:12 | <andygraybeal> i want to use 12.04 to get the desktop security updates....
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| 17:12 | but i'm afraid because alkisg hasn't sanctioned it yet :)
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| 17:12 | all in good time :)
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| 17:12 | <dyllan> well we were forced in a way, server raid failed this morning so now we switching, we were originally thinking chrome only with twm window manager, but we found 12.04 with the minimal installed as per my earlier question great so far.
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| 17:12 | <andygraybeal> i will try new gnome 2d, too and see how things work.
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| 17:13 | <dyllan> kool
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| 17:13 | <andygraybeal> why focus on chrome?
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| 17:13 | i'm also again, curious.. not judging.
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| 17:13 | are you planning on using google apps?
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| 17:21 | <dyllan> yes we are planning on using google apps, so chrome for email, drive (document storage and management), and using chrome apps like rdesktop for remote access to windows machines and a few other apps, it works :)
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| 17:41 | <alkisg> We're using 12.04 with gnome-fallback in many schools here, but also many decided to stick with 10.04...
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| 17:42 | The worst thing is that gnome-panel disappears on login some times, so we had to write an external app to ping/restart it... :(
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| 17:42 | gnome-fallback and unity-2d are not maintained any more, so mate might be a good option, but I haven't tried it
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| 17:42 | <ogra_> well ...
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| 17:43 | unity-2d will be maintained until 2017
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| 17:43 | as long as 12.04 is supported
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| 17:43 | <alkisg> I mean real maintainance, where bugs are fixed :)
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| 17:43 | <ogra_> you mean features added :)
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> No, I mean crashes avoided, panels not disappearing, stuff like that
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| 17:44 | <ogra_> there are bugfixes happening even for unity-2d
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> Sure, if someone finds a fix, prepares a patch and SRU, he might get it accepted... but imho that's not real maintainance where the devs fix the bugs
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| 17:45 | When some application has no upstream developers, in my personal opinion, it's unmaintained.. I don't think the community can do a lot in this case...
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| 17:46 | <andygraybeal> thank you for clearing that up alkisg
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| 17:48 | <ogra_> the code is open and public ... and patches with fixes wont be rejected by the distro ... no matter if there is an upstream
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| 17:48 | so dont say the community cant do anything ;)
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| 17:48 | <dyllan> alkisg, hi! Is there a way to lockdown desktop wallpaper for an ltsp environment? I am struggling to find anything out there :/
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> True, but when selecting a desktop environment, one needs to choose if he wants to maintain it himself or if he wants it to be active upstream
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| 17:49 | <ogra_> (and if you monitor the precise-changes ML you will see community patches roll in daily)
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> That was my only point, an advice not to select something where one would have to fix/push bugs himself
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| 17:50 | Virtualbox was not even starting in 12.04.2. It needed 3 months to get fixed by the community
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| 17:50 | <ogra_> the prob is that community des dont focus on projects with dead upstreams, i aree here
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> (with an upstream fix from day 1)
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| 17:50 | <ogra_> *devs
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| 17:50 | *agree
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> Samba crashed on second connection. It's not fixed yet (upstream fix here too)
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| 17:50 | * ogra_ fights with the cat over the kbd | |
| 17:50 | <alkisg> Hehe :)
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| 17:51 | So while choosing apps, personally I decided that I want them (1) as mainstream as possible (many users), and (2) as active upstream as possible...
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| 17:52 | dyllan: dconf does support locking down settings, yeah, but I think that I should first try to convince you not to do that :D
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| 17:53 | <dyllan> alkisg, yea I tried but it froze up the session and then every time i tried to login it would auth and flash screen then kick back to ldm login :/
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| 17:53 | alkisg, You saying dont lockdown the wallpaper? :)
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> Many users coming from windows focus on locking down stuff, I see it in teachers here too, but I try to convince them to let the kids change whatever they want, and just delete their changes/settings whenever needed
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| 17:53 | E.g. you can easily have a login script clear whatever settings you want, desktop, themes...
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| 17:54 | <dyllan> alkisg, yea fair enough but these are adults and in a office environment so we may have 100 desktops with all types of really odd wallpaper, just trying to keep it looking professional, not too concerned about locking down every aspect :)
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| 17:54 | <kev_j> alkisg: ooh.... do you have an example of that? (being serious) I really need something like that but haven't figured it out
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| 17:54 | <andygraybeal> everyone at my workplace loves to have different backgrounds.. like someone loves dr who and needs a tardis on her computer.
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| 17:55 | <dyllan> yea, an example of that would be great if possible, really appreciate it at this point
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| 17:55 | <andygraybeal> what is the purpose to make things look professional?
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| 17:55 | maybe the work best with a tardis on their background?
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> dyllan: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2012-August/007069.html and https://help.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/lockdown.html.en
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| 17:56 | kev_j: do you mean about clearing settings, or locking them down?
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| 17:56 | <dyllan> andygraybeal, yes to have them look professional. If we have a client walk in and a staff member has a picture of his dog or justinB then it wont look so pro ha ha
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| 17:56 | <kev_j> alkisg: sorry, clearing settings
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> kev_j: the idea is there: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1310986533.1915.3.camel%40alkis&forum_name=ltsp-discuss
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| 17:57 | <dyllan> alkisg, thanks, i followed the system-admin-guide at gnome.org and that locked up my session, will look at the edubuntu url
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> ...the command you need is just a gsettings reset-recursively, instead of find - delete...
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| 17:57 | <kev_j> awesome, thanks alkis
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| 17:58 | <andygraybeal> i got beiberfeever
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| 17:58 | <alkisg> dyllan: use google translate on this too, it's a how-to from a teacher here that did it successfully: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?topic=5008.msg52675#msg52675
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| 17:58 | <dyllan> ahh the other link also uses dconf, gonna stay away from that, will look at gsettings perhaps.. .
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| 17:58 | <andygraybeal> dyllan, aah with customers around, i see.
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| 17:59 | <dyllan> thanks will have a look
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> Both use dconf...
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| 17:59 | <andygraybeal> dyllan, i like to align my icons in the shape of a penis.
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> dconf is the base for gsettings
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| 17:59 | Haha that'd be difficult to avoid, with locking down... :D
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| 18:00 | <dyllan> ha ha
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| 18:00 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 18:00 | i'm just kidding of course
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| 18:04 | so dyllan, sorry for bugging you about this again
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| 18:04 | are you using 'unity 2d' or gnome 3? or?
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| 18:04 | is there such a thing as gnome 3 2d?
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| 18:07 | <kev_j> isn't gnome 3 2d basically gnome fallback?
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| 18:08 | <dyllan> andygraybeal, unity 2d if you select from ldm session
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| 18:08 | <andygraybeal> okay yes.
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| 18:08 | <dyllan> alkisg, looks like sessions are completely frozen again after applying dconf :/
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| 18:08 | <andygraybeal> kev_j, i think that is correct.. i'm an idiot and don't know what i'm talking abuot hafl the time so ignore me.
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| 18:09 | <kev_j> andygraybeal: I wasn't bashing you on that, I was asking cuz I wasn't sure.. so don't worry, we can ask "stupid" questions together
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| 18:09 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 18:09 | i get so confused wth all of this stuff.
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| 18:10 | i spent most of today learning that I either don't have or haven't enabled VT-d .. and can't use a passthrough PCI config with libvirt/kvm.
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| 18:10 | it was a little rediculous.
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| 18:11 | it look like an apparmor problem for a while.
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| 18:11 | and possibly there was an issue with apparmor as well.
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| 18:11 | i'm hoping to get my ltsp server running in a virt machine :)
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| 18:11 | that'd be sweet :)
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| 18:12 | <dyllan> nope, dconf stuff renders system unusable. damn.
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| 18:13 | <kev_j> I have some modules that were a pain running passthrough on my openvz machine but got working (somehow)... although that is essentially a big chroot
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| 18:16 | also, I think I saw a youtube video on how to install ltsp into a virt machine
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| 18:18 | alkisg: would there be an easy-ish way to ask the user if they want to reset their settings sorta like the ldm limit one session prompt?
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| 18:19 | <dyllan> later gents
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| 18:19 | <kev_j> could I use the $oldSessions tag and copy the ldm-dialog --question stuff?
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> kev_j: there's an lts.conf directive to create a custom ldm menu, you could use that one and have the users click it when they want their settings cleared... or you could use a custom session, e.g. "Unity-2d with cleared settings"
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| 19:59 | Or you could have a simple dialog inside the session, "clear my settings on the next logon"
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| 19:59 | Or you could clear their settings from epoptes, without them even logging off.. :D
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| 20:24 | <andygraybeal> sbalneav, okay Mate better be good :)
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| 20:24 | i'm installing it right now on 12.04 ltsp server :)
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| 20:33 | <kev_j> alkisg: oh snap, that is awesome, thank you... are there any good readme files or websites I could go through for this stuff or would it be easier to just handle each situation separately (by situation I mean customizing changes to the login and whatnot)
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| 20:34 | <sbalneav> andygraybeal: You are, of course, installing it on a test server, under a VM environment, right?
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| 20:34 | <andygraybeal> as always :)
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| 20:34 | sbalneav, :)
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| 20:34 | <sbalneav> Then enjoy.
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| 20:35 | <andygraybeal> it is odd :)
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| 20:35 | but it is okay
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| 20:35 | how do i change the font for the top panel?
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| 20:36 | it is a serif font, and i cannot stand serif :(
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| 20:36 | <sbalneav> Usual place. System -> Control Center -> Appearance.
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| 20:37 | <andygraybeal> i couldn't find it but i'm not going to worryabout it to much, thank you.
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| 20:37 | <sbalneav> You don't have the system menu?
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| 20:37 | <andygraybeal> i mean i found appearance.. but under fonts.. i couldnt' find the actually top panel
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| 20:37 | no, i do
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| 20:38 | aah says something is missing
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| 20:38 | an icon theme is missing 'matefaenza'
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| 20:38 | <sbalneav> Well, the top panel is usually the: application font.
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| 20:39 | You'll need to install it. mate-icon-theme-faenza package.
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| 20:39 | <andygraybeal> k
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| 20:39 | aah application font
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| 20:39 | okay
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| 20:40 | <sbalneav> it isn't installed by default, since it's quite large.
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| 20:40 | <andygraybeal> it is very slick!!
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| 20:40 | wow, 91MB :)
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| 20:40 | <sbalneav> yeah. Lots of icons :D
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| 20:40 | <andygraybeal> anyway, very very neat!
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| 20:40 | i am going to try it out.
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| 20:40 | <sbalneav> Glad you like it.
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| 20:40 | <andygraybeal> what 'appearance' do you use?
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| 20:41 | <sbalneav> I tend to like simpler ones, so I use Fog.
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| 20:42 | <andygraybeal> okay cool
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| 20:45 | i know this isn't gnome.. but is there the gnome-firefox enhancement thingy?
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| 20:45 | <sbalneav> No.
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| 20:45 | Mate aims to be just a desktop.
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| 20:46 | <andygraybeal> okay
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| 20:46 | <sbalneav> We're actively trying to drop packages that we've forked.
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| 20:46 | :D
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| 20:46 | By the way, we're starting to have our packages accepted into debian.
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| 20:47 | <andygraybeal> what does that mean when you say drop packages, like... get rid of them?
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| 20:47 | <sbalneav> We're hoping by the next debian release, (wheeeeeeezy+1) we'll be a full-fledged desktop option in debian.
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| 20:47 | <andygraybeal> nice
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| 20:47 | <sbalneav> andygraybeal: yes. There were a lot of packages that got forked originally.
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| 20:48 | <andygraybeal> does gnome 3 run on ltsp? or would i hate myself i tried?
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| 20:48 | <sbalneav> We used to have a mate-notification-daemon, we dropped it and just use notification-daemon.
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| 20:48 | <andygraybeal> sbalneav, i understand
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| 20:48 | <sbalneav> Well, gnome3 requires compositing from the get-go. So unless you run fat clients exclusively, gnome3 isn't going to be much fun.
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| 20:49 | The next version of Mate, the goal is to have it fully converted to gtk3. This release, the big move was from gconf/mateconf to gsettings.
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| 20:56 | <andygraybeal> okay awesome, welli dont' want to run gnome3 then!
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| 20:56 | i have thinnies.
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| 20:56 | i can play around with fat clients again.. i remember i had a hard time with getting some things to work. but it would be worth the effort to try again.
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| 20:57 | anyway, this is great.
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| 20:57 | thanks for the efforts on this!
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| 20:57 | * alkisg wonders how well would gnome3 work on thin clients, if a local WM is used... | |
| 20:57 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 20:57 | <sbalneav> jammcq: Hey ho!
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| 20:59 | <john_s> Hi all, I can't get flash applications to record sound input from the thin client microphone input. All other apps work fine. I see from some sources that Flash may not directly support Pulse audio input
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| 20:59 | does anyone have any pointers
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| 21:00 | <andygraybeal> sbalneav, what if my users have gotten used to the close/minimize buttons on the left side?
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| 21:00 | you can tell me to shove it if you like.
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| 21:00 | because that's probably what i'll tell my users
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| 21:01 | <sbalneav> andygraybeal: Just change the layout.
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| 21:01 | <andygraybeal> is cinnamon a worthy ltsp canidate ?
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| 21:02 | <sbalneav> andygraybeal: install dconf-tools, then edit the marco "button_layout" string.
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| 21:03 | <andygraybeal> rock on
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| 21:04 | <jammcq> sbalneav has all the answers
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> What's "the answer to life the universe and everything"? :D
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| 21:05 | <jammcq> 37
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> Close enough :)
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| 21:06 | <jammcq> :)
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| 21:06 | * alkisg waves | |
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| 21:07 | <stefano-k> sbalneav: "We used to have a mate-notification-daemon, we dropped it and just use notification-daemon" where?
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| 21:08 | <sbalneav> beer
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| 21:08 | Sorry libmatenotify I meant.
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| 21:08 | <jammcq> heh
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| 21:08 | <sbalneav> we now just use libnotify.
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| 21:08 | <stefano-k> sbalneav: aaah :) I was worried!
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| 21:08 | <andygraybeal> sbalneav, that dconf-editor. ... is that global changes or is that only for user changes?
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| 21:09 | <stefano-k> andygraybeal: dconf-editor changes user config
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| 21:09 | <andygraybeal> okay thank you
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| 21:09 | <stefano-k> with gsettings you could set system defaults with overrides files
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| 21:09 | <andygraybeal> ah gsettings.. okay
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| 21:15 | <john_s> pulse audio microphone input and flash?
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| 21:26 | <andygraybeal> fuse group is still used in latest LTSP for 12.04 correct?
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| 21:27 | okay, is ee it in /etc/group
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| 21:27 | *see
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| 21:28 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 21:37 | <andygraybeal> anyone have the time to hold my hand with ldap? i followed this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LDAPClientAuthentication ...
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| 21:37 | it doesn't appear to work :)
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| 21:38 | is there a way i can do simple tests with ldap auth ... without having to login ?
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| 21:38 | maybe there is a log file somewhere with info
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| 21:38 | aah.. server is unfindable... grrr
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| 21:38 | i found it in auth.log
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| 21:58 | okay i gotta get later guys
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| 22:45 | <kev_j> andygraybeal: It may be overkill, but I really like my setup.. I have krb5 with ldap as the backend and openafs for file security.. it was already setup to authenticate through the server with the krb5 for passwords and ldap to manage user stuffs. If you are interested you should check out rjsystems.nl under the tech tab
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| 22:46 | andygraybeal: I think it also has some ldap setup stuff, but I don't know if that will be as plug n play as the full suite of stuffs
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