IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 November 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:22 | <lee> hello. I want to create a fat client that will auto-login as guest, but I don't want to use a "desktop environment" per se, I just want it to go into openbox (the fat clients aren't very fat and just need to run a browser). what options do I have to pass to ltsp-build-client to do that, or alternatively, what do I have to do to make that happen?
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| 05:54 | <muppis> lee, if you just want to run browser in client I suggest you look up how to build thin client in kiosk mode.
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| 09:35 | <ltspuser_62> ho there
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| 09:35 | I'm looking to deploy LTSP. We need to publish IE8 for a warehouse operation, is this possible?
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| 09:43 | <sep> ie8 is microsoft. are you sure ltsp is what you want ?
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| 09:45 | <elias_a> ltspuser_62: 1) Is there a real reason to use proprietary crap like IE8? 2) I such a reason would exist, the "real reasons" very often make running IE under Wine not an option.
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| 09:46 | ltspuser_62: If you really have to have IE, use Windoze terminal server.
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| 09:54 | <ltspuser_62> If i were to choose windows, then firstly i'd spell it correctly, and secondly i wouldn't be posting here. It was a serious question with cost savings in mind.
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| 10:00 | <sep> ltspuser_62, i think making IE8 work on ltsp will be a nightmare . Especially if you need with bug for bug compatibillity, including all the propriatary pieces that makes your website only work on IE8 in the first place
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| 10:49 | <elias_a> Mmmm... I did spell windoze correctly... didn't I?
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| 11:20 | <effenberg> w/e
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| 14:21 | <Aces_High> I'm running an Ubuntu 10.04 LTSP server, and I can't get automatic session selection working. I've tried setting the LDM_SESSION option but it isn't being honored. Is there another way to force the session I want? I've also tried removing all other available sessions but the failsafe xterm refuses to go away.
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| 14:24 | Also, if anyone knows anything about getting Xmonad to work as an available session for clients, that would be great too, but I'm not quite as concerned about that.
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| 14:39 | <lee> muppis: thanks, that looks like exactly what I want! testing it now.
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| 15:06 | <solfan> I have spent 2 weeks trying to get LTSP to work (I am a Linux newb). Last night at midnight, I finally was able to boot up my laptop PXE and bring up a CentOS desktop. When I try with the Wyse SX0 thin client, it will not boot. I can't really even spot an error it moves so fast and then hangs. Anyone had success with Wyse sx0?
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| 15:07 | * vagrantc didn't even know there was an LTSP port for CentOS | |
| 15:07 | <solfan> works great on my laptop pxe booting
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| 15:08 | I followed red hat instructions
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| 15:09 | But, the wyse terminal did the same thing with Ubuntu. That's why I'm giving CentOS a try. But, I couldn't even get the Laptop to pxe boot Ubuntu on LTSP.
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| 15:09 | <vagrantc> i see
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| 15:09 | <||cw> pxe booting it?
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| 15:10 | what OS versions?
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| 15:10 | AMD Geode is kinda old, the newer kernels might not work on it as 686 is what's required, unless you compile your own
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| 15:11 | <solfan> Yes.. PXE booting. CentOS 6.3 - I used i386 client (--arch i386).
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| 15:11 | <||cw> actually kinda funny, since ubuntu finally started enabling a certain 586 SoC nic driver by default, but then dropped 586 support so the SoC won't boot anyway
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| 15:12 | total derp move
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| 15:12 | can you boot a centos liveUSB on it?
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| 15:13 | <solfan> The thin client screen has "[<c0a2ecba>] ? gunzip+0x0/0x35d" type errors all down the screen
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| 15:14 | <solfan> I haven't tried liveUSB. It's stuck in a pxe boot mode now and the reset instructions I found aren't helpful
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| 15:14 | <||cw> :/
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| 15:15 | does centos have an older kernel, or a 586 kernel, in their repo?
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| 15:15 | ubuntu doens't
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| 15:15 | 10.04 lts should work though
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| 15:15 | <solfan> Not sure. Seems like the command was just like "ltsp-client --arch i386" and it downloaded whatever it got. (I'm sorry I'm not more helpful. I have learned a lot, but not enough)
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| 15:16 | <||cw> maybe 10.10 and 11.04, I think 11.10 is when the dropped 586
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| 15:18 | <solfan> I am open to checking out other thin clients if one is known to work
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| 15:18 | I looked at these because they're pxe boot and can get them for about 4 bucks each.
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| 15:19 | Is there a wyse terminal that is known to work well?
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| 15:19 | * vagrantc wants an LTSP hardware library | |
| 15:20 | <vagrantc> there are all these slightly obscure models, and i can't really usefully test them all
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| 15:20 | <solfan> haha.. yea
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| 15:21 | I am trying not to give up. The client is wanting to just install Windows at this point. I have over 60 hours in "playing" with this. I don't want them to give up yet if we can make this work.
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| 15:21 | <||cw> the problem with a lot of the pxe bootable ones is in the graphics drivers. they just tend to be way crappy.
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| 15:22 | <solfan> So, is just buying some old PC's better?
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| 15:22 | <||cw> I can't even use basic P2 400's with intel video with 1024x768 rdp to run a web browser. way to laggy.
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| 15:22 | <vagrantc> wow, the diffstat for the last upstream version seemingly targeted at fedora to current ltsp-trunk: 224 files changed, 12733 insertions(+), 9964 deletions(-)
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| 15:22 | <||cw> P3 700+ with slightly newer intel video work fine
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| 15:23 | <solfan> These guys are using terminals that don't even pxe boot on their windows terminal server
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| 15:23 | way old
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| 15:23 | <||cw> that's fine, the embedded OS's tend to have tweaked drivers for the hardware and often perform well
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| 15:24 | <solfan> ahh
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| 15:24 | <||cw> or, well enough at least
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| 15:25 | <solfan> maybe I can find some cheap small form factor systems and yank the hard drives out. I was really hoping to find some thin clients. They are used to them and they don't take up much space.
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| 15:25 | <||cw> P3 SFF systems are also very cheap, and while they use more power than the wyse's, they're still fairly efficient.
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| 15:26 | <||cw> my local supply has run out though, been recycling P4 SFF's, ones with speedstep so they aren't too bad on power either
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| 15:27 | <solfan> I wonder if a rasberri pi (or whatever they're called lol) would work
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| 15:28 | <||cw> there's a project for it, but I've not heard anyone impressed with it yet
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| 15:28 | it's still a dev platform, so its code hasn't been optimized
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| 15:29 | and there's still some parts not open, like broadcom just a week or so ago release open blob wrappers for some drivers so you can actually build your own kernel
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| 15:31 | <solfan> ahh.. I am no where near building kernels lol
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| 15:32 | When a buddy of mine started asking questions and telling me to type commands, I explained "I barely know "ls" and "cd" right now. Slow down!"
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| 15:35 | <lee> solfan: raspberry pi doesn't a) support pxe booting (but you could stick a kernel on the sd card) and b) doesn't have accelerated X support yet
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| 15:37 | <solfan> ok. I am searching trying to find a terminal that will work. Or perhaps some old boxes to use.
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| 15:37 | <||cw> you could probably get one of those hdmi android things and run an rdp or vnc client in it though, but that's not really using ltsp
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| 15:39 | <solfan> can you RDP to LTSP?
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc> LTSP is just a collection of services
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| 15:41 | <||cw> ltsp is more of a way to boot a diskless thin client.
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| 15:42 | ldm and rdp and vnc are all things it can connect to
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| 15:42 | they are separate services
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> you can install xrdp on any LTSP server...
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| 15:42 | and log into it using RDP
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| 15:42 | ldm can connect via SSH and RDP by default, probably could also write a VNC plugin for it.
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| 15:44 | <lee> I'm gonna have to set up an ubuntu repository on the LAN, ltsp-build-client on 2Mbps ADSL is teeth-grindingly slow as it pulls down everything
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc> lee: i recommend using a caching proxy, such as approx, apt-cacher-ng, or similar
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| 15:45 | <||cw> lee: apt-cacher-ng
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| 15:45 | <lee> (and as I expect to be doing that lots of times until it's juuust right...)
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| 15:46 | oh, hmm
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| 15:46 | <||cw> just set it up as a proxy for apt, then it'll cache all apt sources, even ppa's
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| 15:47 | and use "mirror/http/proxy=" on your linux kernel append lines in your pxelinux.cfg's for netboot images, it'll use the proxy by default
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| 15:48 | http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
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| 15:48 | <solfan> hmm.. I will look up installing xrdp - Maybe that would work with their old clients that can RDP but not PXE
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| 16:07 | <lee> hmm, I might run out of space on this ltsp service, I thought 8GB / would be more than enough...
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| 16:07 | er, server
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| 16:11 | <||cw> heh
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| 16:11 | using nbd or nfs?
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> if you're using a lightweight desktop, that'd be enough...
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| 16:12 | i.e. something other than gnome or kde
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| 16:12 | <||cw> I ofund that durring build-out when I'm rebuilding the image a couple times to tweak each new client, that I need enough room to store 4-5 copies of the image
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| 16:12 | <lee> whatever the default is, I've just installed a new vm to run ltsp, and told it ltsp-build-client --fat-client --kiosk
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> fat-clients take a lot more too
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| 16:13 | <||cw> yeah, full desktop in the client image
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| 16:18 | <lee> yeah, and a whole bunch of crap I dont' care about at all =)
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| 16:20 | <lee> right, it's finished building the image, let's see if it works... gotta go to work to do that though, bbl!
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| 16:25 | <solfan> I installed xrdp. Works great. On everything except the thin clients lol
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> doh.
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| 16:26 | <solfan> This has been happening for a month. I'm used to it lol
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| 16:26 | every turn, there's a boulder blocking me
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| 16:42 | <||cw> lee: you can pxe boot virtual machines for general testing...
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| 16:42 | solfan: maybe just need to enable some non-default feature?
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| 16:47 | <solfan> Hmm.. I wouldn't even begin to know where to research it. I am going to try to RDP on another wyse sx0 (That isn't locked into pxe mode) and see if that works
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| 16:47 | Both windows systems that I've tried RDP to the server work great
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| 16:49 | <||cw> xrpd support lists/forums is where I'd start
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| 16:49 | and know what RDP version the thin client uses
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| 16:51 | <solfan> k
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| 18:14 | <blakes> Does anyone know if there is a CUPS alternative for 12.04. Cups (1.5) crashes whenever a printer is added, whenever a Mac prints a postscript job and if three people submit a job at the same time
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| 18:15 | <mip5> Hi - ltsp on ubuntu 12.04. We've got 12 new clients, and the displays have a different aspect ratio - they are wider than the other ones. How can I provide more display options for these clients?
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| 18:16 | <blakes> mip5, we have a varying set of display types in our lab, and I have had no problem with ltsp clients using different resolutions and so on.
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| 18:17 | I am using the same version of ubuntu as you
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| 18:17 | <mip5> blakes: what options do you have? I only have 1024 x 768 and 800 x 600
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| 18:17 | <blakes> Depends on the monitor....
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| 18:19 | I have some old hires CRTs, some lcds, and so on. I haven't had to make any alterations to the image and the thin clients sense the monitor type without a fuss.
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| 18:19 | Are you using thin or thick clients
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| 18:23 | <mip5> they are thick clients
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| 18:27 | <||cw> mip5: the client driver should autodetect.
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| 18:29 | only issue's I've had are 17" crt's using a really high resolution simply because they can, X_MODE_0=1024x768 brings them down to readable
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| 18:31 | <lee> ||cw: yeah, but I had to go in anyway (just didn't realise there'd be a 2 hour setup period beforehand
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| 18:31 | unfortuantely it didn't work, but dhcp doesn't seem to be running ... or available in /etc/init.d/ on the ltsp, so I don't know what's going on there
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| 18:32 | <mip5> ||cw: So if the client driver isn't autodetecting (or appears not to be), can I force an update or something?
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| 18:32 | <blakes> ARRRRG!!! CUPS is sucking in a big way!
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| 18:38 | Why would it crash with every fricken job.
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| 18:39 | <||cw> blakes: corrupt driver?
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| 18:39 | mip5: depends on the driver and why its not behaving
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| 18:39 | <blakes> There are no errors.... what would I look for? HP 4050 PS
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| 18:40 | <blakes> I have matched 4050's with a class to share them.
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| 18:41 | a lab of 20 kids trying to print a small jpg, is choking the system...
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| 18:41 | <blakes> so I am sitting here, sudo service cups restart with every job!
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| 18:44 | I tried to move the printers onto a separate server box, but the f-ing ltsp clients couldn't find the shared printers. There HAS to be an alternative!
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| 18:44 | <lee> cups is falling over but not leaving anything in syslog?
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| 18:45 | <blakes> not that I can see.... I'll look again
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| 18:46 | <lee> (or wherever logging is defined to go in the config file...)
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| 18:46 | for me cups just works, but we're just using plain text, sorry
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| 18:47 | <blakes> if I grep -i cups /var/log/syslog, I get a bunch of this undecipherable:
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| 18:47 | Nov 2 11:44:32 freyja kernel: [653520.981130] type=1400 audit(1351881872.138:40578): apparmor="ALLOWED" operation="mknod" parent=1 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd" name="/run/cups/certs/0" pid=2056 comm="cupsd" requested_mask="c" denied_mask="c" fsuid=0 ouid=0
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| 18:47 | Which looks to me like a successful job
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| 18:50 | What about forcing the upgrade to 1.6 (now at 1.5).... apt-get won't do it.
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| 18:52 | <lee> the only time I've had trouble with cups, "checkpc -f" fixes it
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| 18:54 | <blakes> checkpc? that's a tool for the old *nix lp system. not installed on my system. should I install lprng?
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| 18:54 | <lee> oh, sorry, yeah, that's lprng not even cups
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| 18:54 | so I guess I don't use it at all, and I'll shut up now =)
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| 19:10 | <blakes> my thin clients are getting the Upgrade to 12.10 notice. Can I turn it off?
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| 19:12 | Cups Error_log says: ippReadFile() returned IPP_ERROR! Any guesses.... please.
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> blakes: have you reported a bug on launchpad? while we try to be helpful in #ltsp, we aren't CUPS experts, so you should get help from ubuntu
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| 19:16 | admittedly, there's not a lot to go on with CUPS problems ... i've tried turning on maximum verbosity and it still often hangs without any errors in the log
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| 19:17 | <blakes> Yeah... #ubuntu is mainly kids with single-user systems, and #cups is vacant. I come here last hoping there is someone with my config who has run into my problem. sorry for the break in rules
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| 19:17 | <muppis> blakes, and about upgrade notices. It's pop ups only sudo users. If it annoys, you can try one of these: http://www.tolaris.com/2012/06/01/disabling-update-notifier-in-ubuntu-12-04/
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| 19:18 | <blakes> here's my cups error_log. http://pastebin.com/UUWVeGFE
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| 19:19 | <muppis> By default only user id 1000 (user created during installation got that) is only one in sudo group.
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| 19:36 | <lee> blakes: http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/drucken-schlaegt-oftmals-mit-dieser-meldung-f/?highlight=cups#post-2043588 ? (stop cups, edit /etc/cups/printers.conf as root, comment out that AuthInfoRequired line, save and restart)
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> blakes: no break in any rules, per se, just hoping to find appropriate resources to help :)
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| 20:10 | when i was younger and foolisher, i came into #ltsp with an on-topic bat, but i now know that is the wrong approach, #ltsp doestry to help users in all manner of ways :)
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| 20:11 | or was that youngerer and foolisherer?
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| 20:13 | <lee> you could just say: when I was a noob...
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| 20:13 | which neatly encapsulates both concepts
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| 20:13 | <vagrantc> plenty of old newbs in the world
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| 20:14 | <lee> yeah, and as far as ltsp is concerned, I'm one of them =)
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| 20:14 | I like the sound of "simple webkiosk mode", is there any more detail on passing --kiosk to ltsp-build-client? I want a browser to run locally on the client, and that's about it
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| 20:15 | <vagrantc> that's basically what the --kiosk is supposed to do
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| 20:15 | <lee> I've just tried "ltsp-build-client --kiosk" but it builds an image that a) prompts for a login and b) gets me to a desktop after logging in, neither of which I want
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| 20:15 | <vagrantc> on Ubuntu? what version?
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| 20:15 | <lee> the ltps is ubuntu 12.04
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| 20:16 | ltsp too
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> i recently made some updates to the kiosk plugin in Debian
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| 20:16 | <lee> or should that be ltsps
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> the ltsp is probably 5.something
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| 20:16 | ltsp-info should tell you more information about the ltsp-specific bits
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| 20:17 | <lee> 5.3.7
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| 20:17 | for the ltsp-server/client packages, anyhow
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| 20:19 | it helpfully provides what looks like dpkg output for other stuff I don't care about (e.g. ldm)
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| 20:19 | <klausade> vagrantc: hello. I'll have a look at the kiosk plugin one of these days.
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| 20:20 | lee: I recently put up a truckload of webkiosk at a libary, just followed partly this http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2011/11/05/creating-a-kiosk-with-linux-and-x11-2011-edition/ works fine.
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| 20:24 | * vagrantc waves to klausade | |
| 20:26 | <vagrantc> lee: heh. i changed it a bit. you need to set SCREEN_07=kiosk
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| 20:26 | * klausade waves back. | |
| 20:28 | <lee> klausade: I'll give that a read, thanks
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| 20:28 | <lee> vagrantc: see earlier comment re: noob =) do I add that to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf then ltsp-update-image?
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc> lee: you should edit lts.conf in your tftp dir ... usually /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf or /srv/tftp/.../lts.conf
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| 20:30 | <lee> ah, ok, thanks
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> the document klausade mentioned appears to be setting it up from scratch
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| 20:40 | <klausade> yes. the link I gave install a minimall debian on disk, it's not a thinclient at all. /me probably broke aaallll the rules in this channel for suggesting such a thing...
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> no
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| 20:42 | i mean, no rules broken :)
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| 20:47 | <||cw> sometimes it's what you gotta do. the link is relevant for ltsp too though
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| 20:48 | and I for one appreciate it, writing a webkit based specialty browser has been on my list for a long time, and I even started a pygtk one a while back as a proof of concept
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| 20:48 | this one look better than mine :)
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| 20:53 | <lee> klausade: works for me, if that can be served over pxe so much the better
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| 20:54 | I set up similar (on disk cut down linux, launches browser, that's it) just over ten years ago
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| 20:55 | then I moved and worked for a different company, now I've moved back and some fucker's gone and replaced all the machines with XP and SBS
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| 20:55 | with GPO that looks like it was designed by a monkey with a cocaine habit
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| 20:55 | so it's time to claim back some control
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| 20:59 | also, vagrantc: I don't have lts.conf anywhere other than /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf apart from an example further down the i386 tree
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| 22:36 | <vagrantc> lee: sorry slow to respond
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| 22:37 | lee: you can create a simple lts.conf in the correct location
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| 22:37 | just needs two lines
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| 22:37 | [default]
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| 22:37 | YOUR_LTSP_VARIABLES=blahblahblah
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| 22:41 | <lee> oh, ok, thanks
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> apt-get install ltsp-docs
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| 22:41 | man lts.conf
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