IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 16 September 2008 (all times are UTC)

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01:53	<amol1> cyberorg, hi i solved yesterdays error ..but now i am getting error as Failure while configuring base packages.
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01:54	<cyberorg> hi amol1, i wouldnt know anything about it, don't use debian
01:55	as vagrantc suggested you are way far off from current debian lenny, many issues fixed since then
01:56	<Pascal_1> bonjour
01:56	<cyberorg> hi Pascal_1
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02:08	<Nubae> morning cyberorg
02:08	<cyberorg> hi Nubae :)
02:13	<Nubae> cyberorg: suse ltsp works ok with kde 4?
02:19	<cyberorg> Nubae, yes, works great
02:19	install the latest kde4 from : http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop
02:20	<Nubae> well I downloaded the kde 4 open suse 11 cd
02:20	I've been checking it out, and it looks real nice
02:21	so I want to go ahead and try installing it here at home and setting the rest of the computers as ltsp... but wanted to make sure kde4 is up to it...
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02:22	<cyberorg> Nubae, live CD is very old, the latest rocks
02:23	johnny is now known as Guest10743
02:23	* cyberorg kicks Guest10743
02:23	<Guest10743> uggh
02:23	stupid internet
02:24	cyberorg, i need to learn enough erlang to add options for mod_irc to add nickserv password to it ..
02:24	<cyberorg> this helps /nickserv identify password
02:25	<Guest10743> you wish
02:25	/nickserv identify
02:26	<cyberorg> /nick johnny
02:26	then identify yourself
02:26	<Guest10743> it doesn't work like that :)
02:26	not via this transport and client setup
02:26	i know how to use irc :) .. it just doesn't work like that through the jabber transport
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02:27	johnny is now known as Guest36423
02:27	<Guest36423> there's some bug here .. it doesn't take /nick right away .. :(
02:28	i don't know if it's a bug in gajim, or in ejabberd's mod_irc yet
02:28	<Nubae> johnny, I've been working on ejabberd for olpc
02:28	so I know a bit of erland
02:28	<Guest36423> i know
02:28	<Nubae> erlang
02:28	<Guest36423> oh :)
02:29	<Nubae> what is it u need?
02:29	<cyberorg> is that gentoo way of getting on IRC? http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Gentoo
02:29	<Guest36423> it'd be nice if mod_irc could allow you to store nickserv and password per server
02:29	cyberorg.. uhmm..
02:30	<Nubae> and y do u need it? As I understand, its really only useful for serious multi-user setups
02:30	<Guest36423> i assume most people use exchat
02:30	or irssi
02:30	* cyberorg uses xchat
02:30	<Guest36423> cyberorg.. it's nice to use my jabber client.. it stores my joined channels on the server
02:30	* Nubae uses pidgin
02:30	<Guest36423> so wherever i go and login to jabber.. i always get my irc loaded
02:30	<Nubae> pidgin does too
02:30	<cyberorg> Guest36423, screen and irssi would do the same
02:30	<Guest36423> they use private storage in xmpp now?
02:31	<Nubae> sure u can do xmpp on most clients nwo
02:31	<Guest36423> cyberorg.. but irssi is just for irc, it takes no advantage of xmpp for anything else
02:31	<Nubae> now
02:31	<Guest36423> no.. that's not the same thing
02:31	pidgin supports the tiniest subset of xmpp
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02:31	<johnny> no PEP, no disco
02:32	<Nubae> right, those settings u'd need to put on the server
02:32	<johnny> i mean pdigin has no ui for either
02:32	the client needs to implement the UI
02:33	<Nubae> and there are no plugins either?
02:33	<johnny> no!
02:33	pidgin is too mulitprotocol..
02:33	<Nubae> theres an xmpp console
02:33	<johnny> that doesn't count
02:33	as a solution
02:33	i'm not gonna assemble disco packets manually..
02:34	<Nubae> so what do u use then... as client?
02:34	<johnny> gajim or psi
02:34	<Nubae> and they have all these uis?
02:36	<johnny> http://www.localmomentum.net/screenshots/screenshot.png
02:36	btw.. i'm using the "one window" interface to gajim. that's why you see 4 panels
02:37	that's me in irc
02:38	<Nubae> 404 - Not Found
02:38	<johnny> uh oh.. did i screw up my web server config
02:38	yeah.. i see that
02:38	i put it in the right place
02:38	oh duh
02:39	here ya go
02:39	http://www.localmomentum.net/~johnny/screenshots/screenshot.png
02:39	that shows the execute command interface, when i'm logged into my account that has admin privileges in my server
02:39	and the set mood
02:39	which is published over PEP
02:40	you can see my current mood icon in the upper left hand corner right under Local
02:41	<Nubae> ok gotcha... when playing with ejabberd, I do everything command line
02:41	so this is the first I see of guis for it
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02:42	<johnny> this is all stuff that is supported by many of the jabber servers available
02:42	this gui is all through the jabber clients themselves
02:43	by supporting many of the XEPs (the xmpp version of rfcs)
02:43	<snaphappi> hi,
02:43	<johnny> xdata, private xml storage, ad-hoc commands, pubsub, PEP
02:43	<Nubae> yeah its neat
02:43	<johnny> Nubae, it's just that very few clients support many of the XEPs :(
02:43	<snaphappi> is anyone here able to help me with an LTSP install? having a problem with the sky2 driver on the client during pxeboot
02:43	<johnny> gajim, tkabber, and psi are some of the top conforming implementations
02:44	<Nubae> at this moment yeah, I'll have to recheck the xos and see what they do
02:44	<snaphappi> is this the right place to ask this question?
02:45	<johnny> snaphappi, yes
02:45	<Nubae> snaphappi: sure, if someone else uses the sky2 driver... I know its reported to be buggy
02:45	<johnny> Nubae, it's amazing how few people know what xmpp can do.. so they don't really use it.. which continues the cycle
02:45	xmpp is the only messaging standard moving foward with the IETF.. SIMPLE seems stalled
02:45	<Nubae> its being used pretty heavily in sugar
02:45	<johnny> then you're just stuck with the legacy services..
02:46	<Nubae> for collaboration its great
02:46	<johnny> yeah.. they do some stuff.. but that's still too niche
02:46	<Nubae> I guess :-)
02:46	<johnny> it would need to be integrated in gnome
02:46	<Nubae> so build a plugin for pidgin ;-)
02:46	<johnny> they are doing stuff with telepathy framework.. i hope that turns out OK
02:46	that's impossible
02:46	<snaphappi> here is a post with my problem. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5632409
02:47	<johnny> pidgin is trying to be multiprotocol
02:47	it just won't work out well.. too many compromises
02:47	<snaphappi> the sky2 driver works when loading the kernal from the HD, but it doesn't work when booting from the PXE image
02:47	if it works once, shouldn't it work all the time? client and server have the same motherboard.
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02:49	<Nubae> snaphappi: its probably not in the client kernel then
02:49	<klausade> snaphappi: I have 1000 clients using sky2. I'm on debian etch, using a backported 2.6.22 kernel. I just had to add "sky2" to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/initramfs-tools/modules
02:49	<snaphappi> how do I put it in there?
02:50	<Nubae> vi or nano
02:52	<snaphappi> i have this file: /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.24-19-generic/kernel/drivers/net/sky2.ko
02:52	do I just copy it over? nano is fine for me.
02:55	just add sky2 to that file?
02:59	<Nubae> should be in modules.pcimap
03:00	and then just add sky2 into initramfs-tools/modules
03:00	on a single line, just the word sky2
03:01	<snaphappi> oh, i'm a bit of newbie. i can add sky2 to the modules file.
03:01	but what about modules.pcimap?
03:01	<Nubae> and remember to rebuild the image
03:01	<snaphappi> i can rebuild the image., no prob.
03:01	<Nubae> forget modules.pcimap, it should already be declared in there
03:01	just add sky2 to modules and rebuild image
03:03	<snaphappi> did that, and rebuilt. still have the same crash
03:04	Info: port 2000 is already defined with /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img in inetd.conf
03:04	is that a problem on the sudo ltsp-update-image ???
03:05	<johnny> no
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03:09	<Nubae> do u still have both network cards in?
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03:16	<snaphappi> yes, 2 cards in the server, 1 in the client. the client and server are both connected on the sky2 controller at this time.
03:17	# List of modules that you want to include in your initramfs.
03:17	#
03:17	# Syntax: module_name [args ...]
03:17	#
03:17	# You must run update-initramfs(8) to effect this change.
03:17	#
03:17	# Examples:
03:17	#
03:17	# raid1
03:17	# sd_mod
03:17	sky2
03:17	that is my nano /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/initramfs-tools/modules
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03:19	<Nubae> yeah all looks correct
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03:20	<snaphappi> 8 sudo ltsp-update-kernels
03:20	9 sudo ltsp-update-image
03:20	10 sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
03:20	this is how I am rebuilding the image
03:20	look fine?
03:21	<johnny> i think you have to run update-initramfs or something
03:21	i don't know of update-kernels runs the update-initramfs or not
03:21	you don't need to run sshkeys again either
03:21	<snaphappi> i will do that.
03:22	command not found on initramfs
03:22	<Nubae> update-initramfs? dont think that exists
03:22	<johnny> whatever it says to run in /etc/default/ltsp-setup or whatever
03:23	whatever they call it on debian that is..
03:23	whatever is used by initramfs-tools
03:23	to update them
03:24	<Nubae> think that is already done automatically with update image
03:24	at least its set in update-initramfs.conf
03:27	snaphappi: you could also try and set the network interface to the other card in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf
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03:28	<The_Code> ogra ping
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03:29	<johnny> ogra is daed
03:29	i killed him
03:30	<The_Code> funny thing
03:31	but johnny why did you do this
03:36	<johnny> nah.. i couldn't kill ogra. .i've actually met him in real life :)
03:37	good guy online and off
03:37	but. in all seriousness
03:37	he's been really busy lately
03:37	don't expect replies in a timely fashion
03:38	<The_Code> i fixed my problem already :)
03:38	he was just the first person i thought of to ask for help
03:38	<johnny> if you have a problem with ltsp and ubuntu, please just ask the channel first
03:38	it'll save ogra the time to read who is trying to get his attention
03:39	even people who don't use ubuntu can help with many common problems
03:39	<The_Code> johnny i know that
03:43	<ogra> guys, let me finish my breakfast :)
03:43	<Nubae> breakfast? its almost lunchtime ;-)
03:44	<The_Code> ogra: finish it, no more problems on my side :)
03:44	<cyberorg> The_Code, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Quick_start/Easy-LTSP
03:46	<ogra> snaphappi, grep sky2 /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hook-functions
03:46	snaphappi, does that return a line with sky2 in it ?
03:46	<The_Code> cyberorg: great
03:47	<cyberorg> The_Code, i found there is no way to disable LOCALDEV, SOUND etc via easy-ltsp
03:47	<The_Code> is it enabled by default?
03:48	i assumed it being disabled, and when adding the tasks i set the variables to true
03:48	<cyberorg> The_Code, if it is enabled/disabled via default section removing from the client section does not disable it
03:48	<snaphappi> finally found it. /usr/sbin/update-initramfs
03:48	but how do I use it?
03:49	<cyberorg> so when adding those tasks, a popup with "Enable/Disable" check box can appear, or put the checkboxes next to their labels after adding
03:49	<snaphappi> i used the -u option, and it updated with this result
03:49	update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic
03:49	do I copy it to the /opt/ltsp/i386 folder?
03:50	<The_Code> cyberorg: i will think about a solution for that, i don't really like the idea of a dialog and another checkbox in the taskview
03:51	<cyberorg> we anyway have dialog for xserver, keyboard, printers and others
03:52	<ogra> snaphappi, what did the grep command return ?
03:52	The_Code, so, pong then :)
03:53	<johnny> ogra :) i didn't have anything to bother you with (yet)
03:53	<ogra> johnny, you killed me, isnt that enough ?
03:53	<The_Code> cyberorg: yeah, i will add a question dialog, enable disable
03:53	<ogra> :)
03:53	<johnny> i hope you read the whole thing ogra
03:53	<cyberorg> ogra, breakfast must have revived you
03:54	<ogra> it has
03:54	* johnny makes coffee
03:54	<snaphappi> grep returned nothing
03:54	<ogra> snaphappi, so ... gksudo gedit /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/hook-functions
03:55	<snaphappi> got it open
03:55	<ogra> snaphappi, find the line with sis900 ... add sky2 before the \ at the end of that line
03:55	(with the same pattern of spacec etc like the other lines have
03:55	)
03:55	*spaces
03:56	save the file if you ar done ...
03:56	<snaphappi> done.
03:56	<ogra> then run: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-initramfs -u
03:56	<snaphappi> r8169 s2io sis900 skge slhc smc911x starfire sky2 \
03:56	<ogra> good
03:57	the chrot command will regenerate your initramfs of the client
03:57	<snaphappi> done
03:57	<ogra> if thats done, run: sudo ltsp-update-kernels
03:57	and then boot the client with the issue
03:57	it should work now
03:58	<johnny> Nubae, see it doesn't exist !
03:59	<ogra> snaphappi, if that works you will get bonuspoints for going to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug and filing a bug with the summary: "sky2 module missing in hardy initramfs netboot function"
03:59	:)
04:00	<snaphappi> you guys are geniuses. i will file the bug.
04:01	<ogra> great, thanks, i'll take care that the kernel team adds the module to the list :)
04:02	<Nubae> johnny: yep, I see... thought it was done automatically by update image
04:06	<johnny> yeah.. the default file for /etc/default/ltsp-setup says otherwise :)
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04:59	<amol1> cyberorg, at last i installed LTSP Client in BOSS
05:01	<cyberorg> amol1, cool, congratulations :)
05:01	amol1, do you work with boss team?
05:01	<amol1> cyberorg, yes
05:01	cyberorg, they helped alot
05:02	<cyberorg> ok, so now you know what work is involved to get it smoothly for others
05:03	<amol1> cyberorg, yes ..but still i am getting some problem..i have created ltsp client for boss old version not for for latest..
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05:39	<cyberorg> someone got even p133 client working :)
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05:49	<ogra> sure, as long as it has enough ram thats no issue
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05:49	* ogra has seen 486 clinets with 64M running ltsp5
05:50	<ogra> but getting the ram for these is very hard ... the ones i saw used some special slot extender to even get to 64M
05:52	though that was on ubuntu feisty ... its way harder to set up nowadays since we dont default to the -386 kernel image anymore
05:53	<cyberorg> yeah, those client would probably just be there to demonstrate that ltsp5 can boot on such low end hardware too :)
05:53	<ogra> no, it worked fine
05:54	<cyberorg> i've used 16M p1 and 486s with ltsp 4.2 running FC1
05:54	<ogra> though they did use XDMCP
05:54	<cyberorg> or was it 4.1? dont remember, it was many years back
05:55	i am happy that opensuse 11.0 can still boot on p133, even if it is not much usable :)
05:55	<ogra> it should be usable with XDMCP and without localdev and sound
05:57	<cyberorg> i must post all the performance enhancing tips somewhere for low end clients
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06:11	<ogra> phew
06:11	* ogra just looked up the flight and rental car for maine
06:11	<jammcq> oh?
06:11	<ogra> 531,48€ for both flights and 133€ for the car
06:11	<jammcq> for each flight?
06:11	<ogra> though i looked up nov 3rd to 10th
06:11	<jammcq> or the flight w/return?
06:11	<ogra> no, both
06:12	<jammcq> that doesn't seem too bad, does it?
06:12	<ogra> and indeed i have to do that on my own dime ...
06:12	<jammcq> heh, wait till you look at flights to Brazil next year
06:12	<ogra> well, the company only pays for one personal event in 6 months
06:13	<jammcq> they'll even do that? wow
06:13	<ogra> they paid the portland stuff for me
06:13	<jammcq> nice
06:13	<ogra> well
06:13	silly me ... i should have done portland on my own and claimed bangor :P
06:14	<jammcq> is it cheaper to fly to BOS ?
06:14	<ogra> might be .., i'll have to take a car anyway i guess
06:14	<jammcq> bangor is kind of a small airport without much competition
06:14	Portland, ME is nicely located and might offer better prices
06:14	but there's huge competition going to BOS, so you might find the best fares there
06:16	<ogra> checking
06:16	woah !
06:16	373,99 €
06:16	<jammcq> wow
06:16	<ogra> (incl return)
06:16	<jammcq> yeah, see
06:16	although it requires more driving
06:17	but maybe you could get Warren to pick you up at the airport and drive with him up to Maine
06:17	<ogra> yep i have to add an extra day
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06:17	<ogra> if he's driving
06:17	<jammcq> he drove last year
06:17	<warren> i'm walking it
06:17	<jammcq> so i'd guess he'll do it again
06:17	hey, warren....
06:17	did you do the operation?
06:18	<ogra> warren, well, you could swim it as well
06:18	up the coast
06:19	<warren> I hear there is a ferry that will take the car from Boston to somewhere around SW Harbor
06:19	but it costs a lot
06:19	* ogra wonders why 4dr a/c cars are cheaper than 2dr a/c economy
06:19	<warren> more far more than driving
06:19	<ogra> waste fule book cheaper ... tsk
06:19	*fuel
06:20	<jammcq> ogra: at 373.99, you'll be paying less than scotty
06:21	<ogra> well, plus 150 for the car
06:21	note that my prices are euros
06:21	<jammcq> yeah, 373 euros == $530 US
06:21	<ogra> warren, so do you drive or fly ?
06:22	<jammcq> ok, i gotta run. need to get to the office to get some real work done
06:22	<warren> ogra: I cannot reall tink now
06:22	surgery yesterday
06:22	i'm in bad shape
06:22	<ogra> oh, right
06:22	go to bed
06:22	stop hacking
06:23	* ogra books over lastminute anyway, so the later i book the cheaper it gets ... lets talk later
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09:00	* CAN-o-SPAM slaps _UsUrPeR_ around a bit with a large trout
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09:26	<sbalneav> Morning all
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09:27	<ogra> !s
09:27	<ltspbot`> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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09:30	<sbalneav> Hey hey ogra!
09:30	<warren> _UsUrPeR_: is etyack around?
09:31	<cliebow> >----------------------Scottie!@
09:31	<sbalneav> Hey cliebow!
09:31	* sbalneav fantasizes about Maine lobstah
09:32	* warren fantasizes about the blood and pain stopping
09:32	* warren pops another vicodin
09:33	<cliebow> warren:sounds like you are in deep doodoo
09:34	<warren> surgery yesterday. I shouldn't be working now.
09:34	<cliebow> yecchhh
09:34	guess i lucked out when they"fixed
09:34	" my back..
09:34	<warren> oh?
09:35	cliebow: free boob job with back surgery?
09:35	<ogra> lol
09:35	<cliebow> i wish..but my wife wouldnt go for it
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09:36	<cliebow> ;-]
09:38	<sbalneav> warren: What surgery did you get? Nothing serious I hope?
09:38	<warren> sbalneav: sinus surgery
09:38	<cliebow> yeccch
09:39	* bill_c has had that, not fun
09:39	<warren> I could have had this done at any time of year. It is supposed to correct a chronic problem that caused me to get sinus infections maybe 3-4 times a year for the last 15 years.
09:40	Lots and lots of antibiotics, and constantly blowing my nose every day
09:40	<cliebow> my choice was surgery paralysis
09:40	<ogra> you should have started smoking ... it puts a tar layer ver everything
09:40	*over
09:40	<cliebow> my choice was surgery or paralysis
09:40	<Gadi> sbalneav: "The current C based cdpinger was re-written over the space of 2
09:40	hours in a bookstore :)" - lol
09:41	<cliebow> heh..while getting haircut
09:41	<ogra> it runs fine though
09:41	respawning ...
09:41	<Gadi> warren: a "refuah shleimah" as we say in my neck of the woods
09:41	get better soon
09:41	<bill_c> I'm trying to import users into ubuntu, mkpasswd -1 doesn't seem to work, what is everyone else using for generating passwords?
09:42	<ogra> pwgen ?
09:45	Gadi, ??
09:45	<sbalneav> Gadi: :)
09:46	<ogra> Blacklist the module in etc/modprobe.d
09:46	Then, add that module to: etc/initramfs-tools/modules
09:46	* ogra wonders what that should achieve
09:46	<sbalneav> I wrote the first draft of ltspfs at a "open event" put on by a local usergroup
09:46	I showed up for the "hackfest" they were sponsoring.
09:46	<Gadi> ogra: modprobe.d stuff gets loaded first
09:47	while modules gets loaded at the end
09:47	<ogra> nope
09:47	<sbalneav> It was just me, and one guy who was going to use the hackfest to install ubuntu for the first time :)
09:47	<ogra> other way round
09:47	<Gadi> so, you can force eth0 to be the one in modprobe.d/
09:47	<ogra> load_modules() is the first function in init
09:47	<Gadi> not in my experience
09:47	and in treality
09:47	*reality
09:47	<ogra> load_modules() iterates over etc/initramfs-tools/modules
09:48	well, look at the code :;)
09:48	<Gadi> only after the kernel loads the ones by probe
09:48	<ogra> nope
09:48	<Gadi> yup
09:48	<ogra> there is no probing
09:48	not before load_modules()
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09:48	<Gadi> it's in the kernel
09:49	the kernel loads its modules before the initramfs tells it to load ones
09:49	<ogra> how would it do that without having them available?
09:50	that would be before initramfs gets unpacked
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09:50	<Gadi> fine, after initramfs is unpacked
09:50	<ogra> then init firse off
09:51	<Gadi> well, it works
09:51	<ogra> th eblacklist should only affect the udevd thats run some secs after init
09:51	<Gadi> then, it is udev that does the loading before load_modules()
09:51	<ogra> it cant
09:51	init spawns it
09:51	<Gadi> either way, the blacklist takes effect first
09:51	<ogra> look at the code :)
09:51	udevd is in an init-top hook
09:52	<Gadi> I can look at the code, or I can actually have reliable tests that work
09:52	<ogra> the load_modules() function runs far before that
09:52	<Gadi> this causes whichever module you blacklist to NOT become eth0
09:52	if there is another driver that loads before it
09:53	<ogra> thats definately the wrong way round ...
09:53	if it works that is by accident
09:53	<Gadi> a repeatable accident
09:53	:)
09:54	<ogra> well, there shouldnt be any modules being loaded before load_modules() or even udevadm --trigger are running
09:54	the latter is what gets executed by the udev hook
09:55	if the kernel would load anything before that would trigger a lot of duplication and slowdown
09:55	<Gadi> doesn't load_modules() go through all of the modules in net/ before the ones in etc/modules?
09:55	<ogra> no
09:55	you mix up the initramfs building with the initramfs executing :)
09:56	net in hook-functions only takes effect on which modules are inside the resulting initramfs
09:56	load_modules() only cares for what is in the modules file
09:57	oh, geez
09:58	<ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "init excerpt" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/74
09:58	<ogra> it is he wrong way round actually
09:58	udev fires before load_modules
09:58	sigh
09:59	<Gadi> so, am I right?
09:59	:)
09:59	I just want to be right
09:59	<ogra> yes, and i think thats a bug causing slowdowns
09:59	<Q-FUNK> ok, that's it for today folks.
09:59	<ogra> it should definately be the other way round
09:59	<Q-FUNK> next stop: Hell Hunt :D
09:59	ciao!
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10:11	<TheBS> What kind of input/output devices can X11 actually forward from a server to thin client?
10:11	Er, sorry, vice-versa
10:11	Thin client back to the server
10:11	<ogra> none
10:12	<TheBS> Well, you have keyboard and mouse
10:12	;)
10:12	<ogra> X runs on the client
10:12	nothing is forwarded
10:12	<TheBS> Okay, let me step back
10:12	The programs run on the server, display on the client
10:12	<ogra> right
10:12	the client spawns an X server and ldm
10:13	<TheBS> X handles sending keyboard key presses and mouse axises/events to the programs that actually run on the server
10:13	<ogra> ldm establishes a session like: ssh -X user@server Xsession
10:13	<TheBS> Yes, I know
10:13	<ogra> so everything happes on the client
10:13	on the local X server
10:13	<TheBS> But the inputs from keyboards/mice actually reach the program, which is actually executing on the server, correct?
10:13	cyberorg has joined #ltsp
10:14	<TheBS> Okay, let me step back further
10:14	If I have a Xterm running
10:14	If I do ... say, "lsusb"
10:14	I don't see my keyboard
10:14	Because my local keyboard is not on the server
10:14	<ogra> right, your xterm runs on the server ...
10:15	<TheBS> So how do I make a device talk the input protocols that X11 expects?
10:15	Something that is not a keyboard or mouse?
10:15	<ogra> make the Xserver understand that device
10:15	what kind of device is that ?
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10:15	<TheBS> One is a serial-based scanning device
10:16	Another is a POS device
10:16	Both send character strings back/forth
10:16	But they have some intelligent code that goes along with them
10:16	So I'd need to create an X input device driver for them then?
10:16	<ogra> well, a scanner is likely rather handled by xsane
10:17	<TheBS> No, no, I mean bar code scanner, sorry
10:17	<ogra> yes, me too
10:17	<TheBS> I should have been more specific
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10:17	<Gadi> many barcode scanners are handled as keyboards
10:17	<TheBS> Not this one
10:17	<ogra> i doubt thats handled by X ... why should it ? it wil neither translate into pointer nor into key events
10:17	oh
10:17	<TheBS> It's a bit more intelligent
10:18	<ogra> ok, Gadi might be able to help then :P
10:18	<TheBS> But all-in-all, they still do simple character back/forth
10:18	What I'm driving at is if I can either ...
10:18	"can" or "should" either:
10:18	A) Create an X input device driver, or
10:18	<ogra> how would it be handled if you had it on a local install ?
10:18	<TheBS> B) Just create a client/server listener
10:19	<Gadi> TheBS: right
10:19	<TheBS> E.g., even jUSB has a RMI facility for USB devices
10:19	<ogra> just an special xorg.conf section ?
10:19	<TheBS> Local install is not an option right now
10:19	This needs to be thin
10:19	<Gadi> either write a driver to convert the character events to keyboard events
10:19	<TheBS> (I'm working on changing that)
10:19	Not sure that would work Gadi
10:19	Can I create another type of input device/
10:19	?
10:19	<Gadi> or you need a "character-device proxy" of sorts
10:20	X handles pointers and keystrokes
10:20	<TheBS> I mean, doesn't the keyboard also get "feedback" as well, like on lock changes? (Num, Caps, etc...)?
10:20	Can X handle more, with the correct driver?
10:20	<ogra> well, how would that device be configured if it were locally installed ?
10:20	<Gadi> right
10:20	<TheBS> Strings of commands/keys?
10:20	The serial device is just a serial device, bytes back'n forth
10:20	<ogra> do you have any docs about setting it up as a local device ? i.e. xorg.conf examples etc
10:20	<Gadi> what happens to the serial data normally?
10:20	<TheBS> The USB device is a USB-HID device, bytes back'n forth as well (various options, usbfs is one)
10:21	No X is used when local
10:21	<ogra> usbfs is dead since some kernel versions
10:21	its all sysfs now
10:21	<TheBS> It's being replaced/.
10:21	Yes, but it still acts like usbfs inside of sysfs
10:21	<ogra> and dbus/hal
10:21	<TheBS> Right
10:22	<ogra> anyway, is either of tehse devcies been used under linux before by anyone on this world ?
10:22	<Gadi> TheBS: it is very difficult to interact with remote character devices - short of a client/server mechanism
10:22	<TheBS> Yes
10:22	Understand
10:22	That's what I assumed
10:22	<ogra> well, the usb-hid part should be easy with intrepid (ubuntu 8.10)
10:22	<TheBS> Intrepid?
10:23	<ogra> if you have the right driver to emit the data
10:23	<TheBS> Give me technologies, not codenames/products
10:23	What does Ubuntu use?
10:23	If I wanted to talk products, I'd use Windows. ;)
10:23	I understand technologies, not products. ;)
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10:23	<Mighty-D> Hi
10:23	<ogra> latest ubuntu dev and fedora dev releases dropped all xinput stuff in favor of using hal/dbus
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10:23	<Mighty-D> im having problems with a nvidia driver
10:23	on the clients
10:23	<TheBS> Oh, okay, that makes sense
10:23	Ah, thank you
10:24	<Mighty-D> i can run the nvidia installer on the client
10:24	<TheBS> Okay, I'll get into that more
10:24	<Mighty-D> and everything works
10:24	<TheBS> Thanx
10:24	<ogra> so in intrepid or FC 10 it should not be to hard
10:24	<Gadi> TheBS: I think the bigger question is how the bits from the device get handled
10:24	<ogra> since if you have the right kernel driver you just need an .fdi file to do the proper translation
10:24	<TheBS> I can deal with that
10:24	<Gadi> and which side of the pipe needs to handle them
10:24	<Mighty-D> however im unable to copy the changes into my chroot, i was thinking on make a tar image of / on the client and then scp to chroot, but i hope there is a better solution
10:24	<TheBS> User-space can deal with intepreting and sending bits
10:25	I just need the exchange facility
10:25	<ogra> Gadi, if you get hid events from the kernel module that doesnt matter ...
10:25	<TheBS> I'll read up more
10:25	<Gadi> no, I mean, if the bits are keyboard entries, then they can be translated into something X already deals with
10:25	<ogra> well
10:25	s/keyboard entries/xev events/
10:25	<Gadi> if it is some other binary bits
10:25	<TheBS> Anyhoo, I have an unrelated meeting, but I'll be back. Thanx for pointing out the change away from Xinput
10:25	<ogra> it doesnt need to be kbd ...
10:25	<Gadi> it may be well outside of X's jurisdiction
10:25	<TheBS> In U10.8 and F10
10:26	Er, U8.10 and F10
10:26	<ogra> 8.10 :)
10:26	or any other distro you find using Xorg 1.5
10:26	(there are none yet ... debian experimental has some bits though)
10:26	Gadi, doesnt matter anymore
10:27	Gadi, if it has hid events hal can translate that to anything you want
10:27	thats the cool part about the new design
10:28	as long as it is either dbus or hal has a capable backend
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10:28	<loather> the init script names for dbus and hald annoy me
10:29	<ogra> ??
10:29	<loather> messagebus and haldaemon, respectively
10:29	<ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ ls /etc/init.d/hal
10:29	/etc/init.d/hal
10:29	ogra@osiris:~$ ls /etc/init.d/dbus
10:29	/etc/init.d/dbus
10:29	not sure what distro you look at though
10:29	<loather> your distro does things in a sane fashion then, apparently :)
10:30	<ogra> we try to use upstream as cleanyl as possible in ubuntu
10:34	<loather> probably a good thing. i should look into installing ubuntu on a box.
10:34	many things with fedora are starting to annoy me.
10:39	<Mighty-D> can anyone help me with the nvidia driver please, im having a really bad day :(
10:44	<sbalneav> Mighty-D: Which, nvidia driver on a thin client?
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10:46	<ogra> and which distro
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10:47	<Mighty-D> sbalneav, ogra, im using the latest nvidia driver from their site and hardy
10:48	i can run nvidia-installer on the running client and everything works
10:48	<ogra> which distro
10:48	<Mighty-D> kubuntu-hardy
10:48	<ogra> use the ubuntu modules then
10:48	<Mighty-D> ogra:
10:48	<ogra> or envy
10:48	<Mighty-D> my card is very new
10:48	<ogra> in the chroot
10:48	<Mighty-D> and the package from repos doesnt work
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10:49	<ogra> envy should
10:49	<Mighty-D> what is envy?
10:49	<ogra> since it usually uses the latest drivers
10:49	but if not you need to manually move all the bits the nvidia installer installed
10:50	<Mighty-D> do you know how to find that bits?
10:52	should i install envy on the client?
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10:56	<ogra> in the chroot
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11:09	<Mighty-D> ogra, so envy should have rights to go into the internet?
11:09	<ogra> no idea, i never used it
11:09	i dont use nvidia HW
11:10	<Mighty-D> hmm, i think it is easier to try to install the driver directly...
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11:14	<Mighty-D> what is this /cow directory?
11:16	<ogra> copy on write
11:21	<laga_> mooo
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11:22	<ogra> laga_, mad cow desease ?
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11:27	<Mighty-D> lol
11:28	what is for?
11:28	<ogra> for the copy on write tmpfs used on a client
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11:29	<Mighty-D> thanks ogra
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11:49	<Mighty-D> is there a way to create an image from a running ltsp client?
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11:51	<ogra> nope
11:51	you could switch to nfs
11:52	export the nfs dir writable
11:52	install your nvidia stuff and roll an image the normal way
11:52	then switch back to nbd
11:52	<Mighty-D> ogra: what would you do, if you were on this situation?
11:53	<ogra> the above ...
11:53	<Mighty-D> ok, so how do i switch to nfs?
11:53	but i can switch to nfs and then switch back to squashfs right?
11:59	<Gadi> wouldn't you know it - I got my first request for local serial printers, and jetpipe doesn't support it yet ....
11:59	expect a patch soon... :)
12:00	<Mighty-D> is there a doc page of how to switch do nfs
12:02	<etyack> Mighty-D: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html
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12:03	<Mighty-D> thanks etyack
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12:25	<Mighty-D> how do i set the client to mount / rw
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12:26	<Mighty-D> Hi
12:27	where do i set the mount options for nfs on the client, it keeps mounting it as ro
12:38	<ogra> add rw to your PXE config
12:39	(as kernel option)
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12:51	* ogra wonders what fedora is about to do about the new firefox EULA
12:57	<Mighty-D> ogra, i want to kiss you!
12:57	it works!!!
12:57	and im back to nfs!!! :)
12:57	err unionfs
12:57	:)
12:57	<ogra> :)
12:57	<Mighty-D> thanks a lot
12:57	<ogra> great
12:58	<Mighty-D> what i did was,to boot into unionfs and SCREEN_07 = shell
12:58	then i exported the chroot via nfs
12:58	<ogra> if you find a spare moment at some pont in the future feel free to document it somewhere :)
12:58	so others can benefit
12:58	<Mighty-D> sure, where?
12:58	<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ ?
12:59	<Mighty-D> ok...
12:59	<ogra> or on wiki.ltsp.org but with a note that it's ubuntu specific
12:59	(though it might work on debian, not sure)
12:59	<Mighty-D> ill make this entry to the todo list, i have to battle local devs
12:59	ogra: it is general
12:59	because i used old gcc and nvidia drivers from their site
12:59	<ogra> ah
12:59	<Mighty-D> i didnt use repos
12:59	<ogra> i thought you went with envy
13:00	<Mighty-D> no, i like to know what im doing
13:00	ok time to lunch
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14:29	<TheBS> Back to the U8.10/F10 change from Xinput
14:30	Does anyone have any links? Fedora or Ubuntu so I know what I'm looking for?
14:34	<Gadi> http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xorg_input_hotplugging
14:34	thats a wiki from archlinux on the topic
14:34	they are a debian derivative
14:35	kyfho has joined #ltsp
14:36	<kyfho> greetings. Just installed LTSP-5 on a debian based system (knoppix). Get the X Login, but cannot login using a valid ID. Same in tty1. Thoughts on what I missed?
14:36	I am getting an error about the network script and a read only system.
14:37	Changed pxeconfig to a rw file system vs a ro, no change after boot.
14:39	<Gadi> kyfho: you can only log in on tty1 if you set a password in the chroot
14:40	(for root)
14:40	I am not sure if knoppix build debian-style LTSP or ubuntu
14:40	I would guess debian ?
14:40	<kyfho> k, did not do that, used the debian
14:40	<Gadi> so, you export the chroot over NFS?
14:40	<kyfho> I can't log in as "myself" either
14:41	<Gadi> the chroot does not have users (other than system users)
14:41	<kyfho> I confess ignorance
14:41	It was a working 4.x ltsp system before the upgrade :(
14:41	<Gadi> so, does it use nfs?
14:41	<TheBS> Yep, familiar with Arch
14:41	<kyfho> yes, it is set to use it and the exports are there
14:41	<Gadi> you upgraded to knoppix?
14:41	or you are testing?
14:42	<kyfho> no, just upgraded from a .99 ltsp system to the 5.x
14:42	<TheBS> I'm still failing to see how this would support non-traditional input devices
14:42	Say a ttyS and a HID-USB?
14:42	That have free-form character input/output?
14:42	<Gadi> kyfho: as root: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u root; chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
14:43	TheBS: ya got me - I just work here ;)
14:43	<kyfho> ok
14:43	<johnny> don't login as a person you are already loggedi n as
14:43	<Gadi> kyfho: that will get you the ability to log in on tty1
14:43	<kyfho> enter new password?
14:43	<Gadi> yeah
14:43	then, you can login as root on tty1 on the terminal
14:43	<TheBS> So this really isn't the route to persue
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14:43	<johnny> cyberorg, sound works now .. tursn out it was esd.. no configuration necessary.. it all works out of the box
14:43	<TheBS> pursue
14:43	<Gadi> but, that's not too exciting
14:44	TheBS: ogra knows better than I
14:44	<johnny> ok.. now i can test local apps..
14:44	then i'll just firm up the packaging
14:44	<kyfho> Gadi: that got me into tty1
14:44	<johnny> and gentoo will be ready
14:44	<TheBS> Ping ogra
14:44	<Gadi> but, if I were you, I'd build a daemon and redirect the serial port over the network
14:44	:)
14:44	<TheBS> Yes, we're thinking of doing that with javax.comm and javax.usb
14:44	The latter defines RMI
14:45	<Gadi> kyfho: on the server, run as root: ltsp-update-sshkeys
14:45	<TheBS> A lot of this stuff is already UnifiedPOS/OpenPOS, much of it in Java, so JavaPOS with little porting
14:45	<Gadi> then, on the client, log into the GUI
14:45	<johnny> dberkholz, i have sound working, and local apps stuff is in the ebuilds :)
14:46	<Gadi> TheBS: you can write the daemon in anything on the client side, then mod java to use the network as device instead of /dev/ttyS0 on the server
14:46	or, alternatively, run the POS as a local app
14:46	<TheBS> Yes, although the POS device would be on the local
14:46	<kyfho> Gadi: done
14:46	<Gadi> and don't mod it at all
14:46	<TheBS> They are really against local apps
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14:47	<Gadi> TheBS: not enough horsepower for a POS app?
14:47	<johnny> the daemons for that stuff already exist
14:47	<Gadi> TheBS: I mean just run that app locally
14:47	<johnny> no need to write that
14:47	<Gadi> not the whole desktop
14:47	<TheBS> It's going to be stretched, and they really aren't sold on local run, central manage
14:47	<Gadi> ?
14:47	<johnny> that sounds stupid
14:47	<Gadi> it'd be in the chroot
14:47	<TheBS> The "hybrid"
14:47	<johnny> aren't sold on saving money?
14:48	buy not buying more servers?
14:48	by*
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14:48	<TheBS> Hey, I just do what the client asks
14:48	They aren't sold on the hybrid mode
14:48	Where you run locally
14:48	<Gadi> it would cut your dev costs :)
14:48	<TheBS> Well, they have to do some re-dev anyway
14:48	<Gadi> they do understand that all apps run on server except that one app?
14:48	<TheBS> They are using $120 ViA devices
14:49	The one app is Firefox, although we should run local for many things IMHO
14:49	The Java apps would also be launched via Firefox
14:49	So we're quickly running 100% local ;)
14:49	<johnny> firefox is the only app i really wanna run locally..
14:49	<TheBS> Okay, for a second, let's look at Hybrid
14:49	How does it work?
14:49	<Gadi> well, java+firefox are a very nice thing to run locally
14:49	<TheBS> Does it download an image?
14:49	<Gadi> no
14:50	same as LTSP
14:50	<TheBS> NFS mount?
14:50	(or ltspfs)
14:50	<Gadi> except you install the bits you need in the chroot
14:50	<TheBS> Which is remotely mounted, correct?
14:50	<Gadi> ltspfs=removable media
14:50	the chroot is mounted (in ubuntu) with NBD
14:50	<TheBS> Okay, so ltspfs is only for removable media on the X-term to the server
14:50	<Gadi> no only removable media
14:51	<TheBS> Or NBD instead of NFS, understand that
14:51	<Gadi> ltspfs = network automount
14:51	<TheBS> I'll have to read up more
14:51	<Gadi> so, the rootfs is an NBD/NFS mount
14:51	never leaves the server
14:51	<TheBS> BTW, is it possible to get ltspfs working on RHEL 5 if I load the FUSE support (which RHEL 5 doesn't have)?
14:51	<Gadi> and is read-only
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14:52	<kyfho> Gadi: updated the ssh keys, rebooted, but still no joy. It is still not successfully running the network script, erroring while attempting to write to the ifstate. So it is not loading the nfsfs
14:52	<TheBS> What's the big advantage with NBD instead of NFS if it's a read-only mount?
14:52	<Gadi> TheBS: should be - warren is our resident fedora guy
14:52	<TheBS> I know, I've talked to him a few times
14:52	<Gadi> NBD exports a squashfs image - much faster
14:52	<TheBS> Ahhh, okay, that makes sense
14:52	I didn't read that with NBD
14:52	<bill_c> Does anyone have a script they use to import users passwords, for the life of me I can't get it to work on ubuntu
14:53	<Gadi> kyfho: that sounds like it doesnt boot at all to the GUI
14:53	oh crap, I gotta run
14:54	TheBS, kyfho: good luck with things - definitely explore options before coding
14:54	we'll be here all week ;)
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14:54	<kyfho> Gadi: sorry to see ya run.
14:54	<vagrantc> NBD is even faster with an uncompressed filesystem ...
14:55	<kyfho> Does anyone else have an idea why I can get a GUI login screen, but cannot login? It is failing at the point it re-runs the networking script and before it imports NFS
14:55	<TheBS> Yes, that's the idea here, explore our options
14:55	<vagrantc> NFS is a bit slow, but it's simple to make modifications
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15:11	<kyfho> Greetings. Can anyone tell me how to troubleshoot the network script running before it imports NFS?
15:12	<johnny> i don't think that is your problme if you get to the login screen
15:12	you're not trying to login as a user that you're alreayd logged in ias through the gui are you?
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15:19	<sbalneav> kyfho: What problem are you having?
15:21	<kyfho> cannot get the network script to initilize the interface
15:21	So it is not importing the nfs filesystem
15:21	<ahven> hi, I'm using Debian GNU/Linux unstable (sid) and trying to set up LTSP. after hours of searching for solutions I have found out that the ROOT variable isn't set anywhere - where does it have to be declared in the first place? in the ltsp-build-client only ?
15:22	<kyfho> gonna hafta run, will get back in here on Friday when I get back to it. I reverted back to the old version for now
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15:23	<rarango_> Hi, im trying to get localdev on kubuntu
15:24	where should the device appear?
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15:26	<ahven> and by the way, why was the --base/--root option removed from the command line parameters list? the manual says it has to exist, but the reality is the opposite
15:26	<Mighty-D> Im getting Buffer I/O error on device fd0
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15:30	<vagrantc> ahven: what manual are you talking about?
15:30	<ahven> man ltsp-build-client
15:31	comes with the package
15:31	<vagrantc> ok
15:31	<ahven> /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client: unrecognized option `--base'
15:32	<vagrantc> ahven: hmmm...
15:32	ahven: could you paste the output of ltsp-build-client --help to the pastebot:
15:32	!pastebot
15:32	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:32	<vagrantc> ahven: oh, sorry. --extra-help
15:33	it's in the common plugins directory, so it would seem weird that it wasn't avaialble.
15:34	<ltsppbot> "ahven" pasted "missing thing?" (21 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/75
15:34	<vagrantc> ahven: see /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Debian and common dirs.
15:34	<ahven> been there, what should I look from there?
15:34	<vagrantc> ahven: that sounds pretty broken...
15:35	ahven: there should be a common/010-set-base
15:35	<ahven> Version: 5.1.10-2
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15:35	<vagrantc> ?
15:36	<ahven> missing that
15:36	<vagrantc> ahven: dpkg -L ltsp-server \| egrep 010-set-base
15:36	<ahven> present there..
15:36	<vagrantc> seems like you have missing files on your install ...
15:37	apt-get --reinstall install ltsp-server
15:37	but who knows if other files are also missing from other packages.
15:37	<ahven> purging and reinstalling
15:37	haven't installed ltsp-server before on this installation
15:38	* vagrantc wonders where ltsp-build-client came from, then.
15:38	<ahven> ah, slap me
15:39	looked at the wrong directory
15:39	010-set-base exists
15:39	was under Debian
15:39	but still, the reinstallation didn't help
15:40	<vagrantc> it shouldn't be under Debian
15:40	<ahven> and it isn't, my bad
15:40	under common, like it should be
15:40	<vagrantc> please paste to the pastebot: lsb_release --short --all
15:41	<ltsppbot> "ahven" pasted "missing things? vol2" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/76
15:44	<vagrantc> ahven: hmmm... i've got to get back to work ... all i can say is "works for me" unfortunately.
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15:45	<ahven> ok
15:45	thanks anyway
15:45	<vagrantc> oh, i haven't tested with a fully updated sid...
15:45	maybe something else breaks it.
15:45	or try with lenny?
15:45	same versions of ltsp related stuff
15:50	ahven: also works with a freshly updated sid chroot for me.
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15:51	<vagrantc> ahven: might try running "bash -x ltsp-build-client --...."
15:51	<ahven> ok, LC_ALL=C ltsp-build-client started it
15:51	<vagrantc> oh.
15:51	<ahven> have had similar problems before, remembered suddenly
15:51	<vagrantc> ahven: what locale are you normally running with?
15:52	<ahven> et_EE.ISO-8859-15
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15:52	<vagrantc> haven't tried with a non-UTF8 locale in ages...
15:52	other than C
15:53	ahven: there's no et_EE.UTF8 ?
15:53	<ahven> there is
15:54	<vagrantc> might be worth trying that...
16:01	<ahven> LC_ALL=et_EE.UTF8 ltsp-build-client
16:01	like this?
16:02	doesn't work, same error - no ROOT
16:04	<dberkholz> johnny: rock on
16:06	<vagrantc> ahven: that is most peculiar.
16:07	ahven: you have the et_EE.* locales built?
16:08	<ltsppbot> "ahven" pasted "locales" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/77
16:10	<Lns> Is NBD_SWAP=Y the only switch I need to enable nbd swap?
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16:13	<johnny> it should..
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16:26	<Lns> Anyone here know if there is any LTSP specific way to introduce entropy for RNG ? It looks like this might be the issue i/others have been having with launching Firefox 3.x - it's running out and blocking requests, especially during profile creation.
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16:27	<johnny> uhmm.. no
16:27	there is no ltsp specific way
16:28	it'd be nice if you could tell it to use urandom tho
16:29	there are also other entropy generating userspace daemons tho
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16:30	<Lns> johnny: the conversation i'm having on irc.mozilla.org/#firefox w/mzz seems to think that we're running out of entropy - firefox uses /dev/random, which seems to block new requests until entropy is available (thus hanging the app launch). He seems to believe that since everyone is on a terminal, the gathering of entropy is limited.
16:30	<johnny> yes
16:31	i'veh eard of that
16:31	so.. try to see if you can tell it to use urandom instead? or one of those entropy daemons
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16:31	<johnny> usually you c an rely on the hard disk to help.. but obviously not in a terminal :)
16:31	<Lns> johnny: Eghie said that symlinking /dev/random to /dev/urandom might be an issue for apparmor
16:32	<johnny> no.. i'd never suggest that
16:32	<Lns> johnny: oh, just tell ff to use it
16:32	i doubt that's a pref, but i can check ;)
16:32	<johnny> altho it won't be as secure as another userspace daemon type thing
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16:32	<johnny> i don't know if you have any pnrg
16:32	err prng
16:33	<Lns> it's hard for me to tell if i have a TPM on my server..that provides the facilities i blieve
16:33	believe*
16:47	<vagrantc> ahven: might report your problem to the debian BTS ... i haven't been able to reproduce it, but maybe someone else could...
16:47	ahven: i'll test it in a few more locales and see what happens.
16:48	<ahven> ok
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17:25	<Lns> Anyone know if Firefox on LTSP server, for whatever reason, polls TC /dev/random instead of server's?
17:33	<johnny> i don't see how it could
17:33	it sounds impossible
17:33	except via local apps obviously
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17:39	<Lns> johnny: that's what I thought. Just checking. :) thx
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17:46	<cliebow> cant understand why hardy is such a pain with wireless..somedays perfect..most og the time unable to connect at all no matter what you do
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18:17	<monteslu> cliebow, its a pain in general :)
18:19	ok, one thing i dont know if I should file as a bug... In the admin menu in hardy there's an app "manager users and groups" or some such. There's no become admin button on it
18:19	who is that app for?
18:21	warren, is ltsp5 gonna be in rhel 6 ?
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18:35	<cliebow> monteslu, guess you arent stuck on ubuntu?
18:36	<monteslu> cliebow, no. I only went to it last year because eric quit working on k12
18:36	i've been a redhat user since the late 90s
18:36	<cliebow> eric did?? i dint know i dont thin k
18:36	<monteslu> i mean k12ltsp
18:37	i think he's part of the new thing
18:37	<cliebow> i started in redhat at 5..hooked at rh7.not so happy eoth rhel4
18:38	Lord i must be further behind than i thought..
18:38	which new thing?
18:38	<monteslu> rhel4 wasn't bad
18:38	warren's thing
18:38	k12linux
18:39	<cliebow> ok..
18:39	<monteslu> fedora+ltsp5
18:39	i think centos6 or rhel6 with ltsp5 will be perfect
18:39	at least for a couple of years
18:40	i was hoping for the same with 8.04, but its given me tons of trouble
18:40	<cliebow> warren has done an awful lot..i know//
18:40	<warren> I'm here, just suffering a lot
18:40	<cliebow> well..this laptop idnt happy with hardy for sure
18:41	<monteslu> my kid's 70 thin client network isn't happy with hardy
18:41	<cliebow> im still in ltsp4.2...works still perfectly for what i nedd..
18:42	all my thinclients will support
18:42	<monteslu> I loved k12ltsp with 4.2
18:42	was hoping it would go on forever
18:42	but just like smbldap, people move on :)
18:43	<cliebow> actually most are still at 4.1 still..jeez my smbldap just keeps on..(knock on wood
18:43	what instead?some opendirectory?
18:44	<monteslu> i just mean the isntaller's no longer updated
18:45	<cliebow> its just ive written scripts for muy non-standard smbldap ridectory whic do just what i want..cant bear to abandon them
18:45	<monteslu> I was hoping to upgrade my smbldap server to centos5 this summer and then leave it alone for the next couple of years
18:46	<cliebow> mine is deep.not flat.broken down by year o graduation
18:46	<monteslu> but it died yesterday and the backups didn't work.... I needed to get the school back up and running, so i just moved the homes over quickly and ran a script to create local accounts
18:47	mine was flat
18:47	only about 300 users
18:48	<cliebow> yeah,,i uinderstand...i wrote installer scripts for both ubuntu and rhel4
18:48	so around 2000 users
18:48	<monteslu> you should pick up moquist's and dtrask's work and continue it :)
18:49	uhh, crank out a centos5 version
18:50	<cliebow> matt gave it up?? i couldnt quite get my head around his perl]
18:50	<monteslu> yeah, understandable. Kind of a big task supporting multiple distros and versions
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18:52	<cliebow> there are subtle differences in schema ..or just in the skeleton dirctory really between distros
18:53	i'mnot geting much time for development nowadays..too much broken crap to kotch back together
18:53	<warren> we need your help to get smbldap directly integrated into fedora
18:53	so it can be awesome for RHEL6
18:55	<cliebow> warren..bash?or something fancier/
18:55	<warren> ?
18:55	cliebow: whatever it is now, get it into fedora 9 and fedora 10
18:56	cliebow: it is obviously useful for people in its current form
18:56	<cliebow> warren:ill set up a sandbox..
18:56	<warren> I have no idea what you are talking about.
18:57	<cliebow> ill set up an experimental box
18:57	<warren> ok
18:57	<monteslu> warren, how is ltsp5 looking for making it into rhel6?
18:57	<warren> monteslu: I don't control the RHEL products
18:57	monteslu: it is looking good in fedora 9 and 10
18:57	that's all I can say for certain now
18:59	<monteslu> fair enough
18:59	was just hoping for an inside scoop :)
19:01	<warren> what's wrong with Hardy LTSP?
19:01	Nobody seems able to explain what is wrong with it
19:01	I want to know what to avoid
19:03	<monteslu> warren, read Scott Belford's email
19:03	some of it has been addressed, but not all
19:03	my main problem has been bad defaults
19:03	sound didn't work
19:03	and when it did, it made apps hang on close
19:04	I posted a fix to that on the list
19:05	<cliebow> warren:i cant hopd a candle to egharrison's smbldap work..
19:06	<monteslu> the other thing that needs to be addressed, not just in ubuntu is large installs. there doesn't seem to be any well documented best practice
19:07	adding an smbldap server is a good start to having multiple ltsp servers, but it obviously complicates things
19:08	I've yet to get local devices to work on with an ubuntu box authenticating/getting homes from an ldap server
19:10	and sound has always been a mess, but that's hardly an ltsp problem :)
19:27	<gbolte> monteslu, yeah we kind ditched the idea of centralized homes when we had issues with using nfs mounted home dirs
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19:28	<gbolte> some apps have a real hard time with nfs when they expect an actual drive
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21:40	<sri_j> ogra,johnny hi
21:41	ogra, johnny : i am usinf ltsp5 for client booting i am getting error as no /sbin/init found
21:43	hi to all
22:04	hi to all,i have installed ltsp5 server...but client booting showing error as /sbin/init not found
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22:09	<sri_j> Nubae, good morning,i have installed ltsp5 server...but client booting showing error as /sbin/init not found
22:17	<sbalneav> Evening all
22:18	sri_j: What server are you using?
22:18	<sri_j> sbalneav, Debian
22:19	<sbalneav> So, you installed ltsp-server-standalone, right?
22:19	Did an ltsp-build-client?
22:25	<sri_j> sbalnev,yes
22:25	<sbalneav> OK, now, if I remember correctly, I think the debian version uses nfs by default, yes?
22:26	<sri_j> sbalneav,yes
22:26	sbalneav, at client side it is not able to mount proc sys
22:27	sbalneav, at last small shell busybox is showing at client
22:27	<sbalneav> ok, is NFS running on the server?
22:28	Might want to check /etc/exports, and make sure you do a sudo invoke-rc.d nfs-server start
22:33	<sri_j> sbalneav, i have restarted service then client got stuck at USB-core driver
22:33	sbalneav, /hid/usbhid.usb-core.c
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22:34	<sri_j> sbalneav, sorry not usb-core.../hid/usbhid/hid-core.c
22:35	<sbalneav> Does the thin client have any usb keyboards or mice?
22:36	If not, you might try going into the bios and disable the usb ports.
22:36	Can you tell me a little about what the thin client is? How much memory and cpu it has?
22:37	<sri_j> sbalneav, i am having usb keyboard
22:37	intel pentiumD
22:39	512MB ram
22:42	<sbalneav> Got a ps/2 keyboard to try, just to see if you disable the usb port, it boots?
22:47	<sri_j> sbalneav, got ps2 but same error no init found
22:48	<sbalneav> Well, the no init's usually because it can't mount the NFS root directory.
22:48	Got a smart switch?
22:49	<sri_j> smart switch??
22:49	<sbalneav> Usually, when I've seen this sort of thing before, it's either because the server isn't exporting the NFS mount, or because the network switch is blocking UDB packets.
22:49	Can you paste your /etc/exports file to the pastebot?
22:49	!pastebot
22:49	<ltspbot`> sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
22:51	<sri_j> sbalneav, /opt/ltsp *(ro,no_root_squash,async)
22:51	sbalneav, i am using D-link DES-1026G switch
22:52	<sbalneav> What's the output of "showmount -a"?
22:53	Ok, that's an unmanaged switch, so you should be ok.
22:54	<sri_j> sbalneav, All mount point on boss:
22:54	sbalneav, output of showmount -a
22:54	sbalneav, All mount point on boss:
22:57	sbalneav, ?? what must be the output?
22:57	sbalneav, my switch is ok to use ltsp?
22:58	<sbalneav> Hmm, should show /opt/ltsp
22:58	lets try this
22:59	did you install the package nfs-kernel-server?
22:59	<sri_j> sbalneav, yes
23:00	<sbalneav> ok, lets make sure it's running.
23:00	Do an invoke-rc.d nfs-kernel-server stop
23:00	Then
23:00	invoke-rc.d nfs-kernel-server start
23:09	<sri_j> sbalneav, showmount now showing can not get address for boss
23:10	<sbalneav> What about showmount -e?
23:10	<sri_j> sbalneav, showmount -e showing can not get address for boss
23:10	<sbalneav> showmount -e localhost
23:11	Boss is the name of the server?
23:11	<sri_j> sbalneav, yes ..showmount -e locahost shows /opt/ltsp *
23:12	<sbalneav> But boss is the name of the server?
23:12	<sri_j> sbalneav, yes
23:13	<sbalneav> "can not get address for boss", you've got something wrong with your dns, or the like.
23:13	You'll need to fox that.
23:14	Sorry, fix that
23:20	<sri_j> sbalneav, yes now it is showing that showmount -e ..outout as /opt/ltsp
23:20	sbalneav, showmount -a not showing /opt/ltsp
23:21	<sbalneav> does showmount -e boss work?
23:21	<sri_j> sbalneav, yes
23:23	<sbalneav> Well, try booting the client now.
23:23	<sri_j> sbalneav, showmount -a??
23:24	<sbalneav> If you're not getting the boss error message now, try booting the client.
23:31	<sri_j> sbalneav, still getting same error init not found
23:32	<sbalneav> Try an ltsp-update-kernel
23:38	I'm heading to bed. If you don't have any luck, try looking for vagrantc tomorrow, he's in charge of the debian branch of LTSP
23:39	Nite.
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23:49	* cyberorg suggest johnny to try esd, but he wouldn't listen
23:49	<johnny> i don't have esd
23:49	i just had to uninstall it
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23:52	<johnny> cyberorg, the problem was HAVING esd :)
23:53	<cyberorg> ah, ok, great it is all working now :)
23:54	<johnny> it started first, and then pulse started, and only showed the null sink
23:54	a combination of warren's volume patch, newer pulse, and removing esd solved the problem
23:55	<cyberorg> we have esound-compat package that replaces /usr/bin/esd and puts a wrapper that launches pa
23:55	it also conflicts with esound, so esound and pa cannot be installed together
23:55	<johnny> hmm.. we don't need that anmore i think
23:55	<cyberorg> yes, if you remove it you dont
23:55	<johnny> pulse installs a start-x11-pulseaudio script
23:56	in /etc/xdg/autostart
23:57	<cyberorg> /usr/bin/esd is just to fool any app that tried to launch esd, they get pa esd
23:57	<johnny> which apps are those?
23:57	which apps actually try to launch esd these days?
23:58	<cyberorg> johnny, no idea, we had esd hard coded in our gconf settings, so when user logs in esd is launched, putting that wrapper, pa lunches instead
23:58	<johnny> hmm.. no need for that here
23:58	<cyberorg> requirement for smooth update from previous version of opensuse where pa didnt exist
23:59	<johnny> gentoo has no versions :)