IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 February 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:03 | <muppis> Any succefull progress about Raspberry Pi as client?
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| 09:03 | * alkisg asked for an rpi-2 based lab :) | |
| 09:03 | <alkisg> rpi-1 isn't good enough...
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| 09:04 | <muppis> But works?
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| 09:04 | Like in demo purpose.
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> Sure, many people have done it, it's just very low-powered
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| 09:05 | E.g. you can't even browse the web with 256/512 ram and an arm v6 processor...
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| 09:07 | <muppis> That's good for start. Reason to get rpi-2 for demo. :D
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> rpi-2 sounds good as a fat client
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| 09:11 | <muppis> Boss agreed about idea rpi-2 as client and started ordering one already. :D
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| 09:14 | http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php -- Also ordered C1 from here.
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| 12:11 | <jtornero> good morning. I wonder if someone knows if is it possible to use an usb-to serial converter plugged into a thinclient. Or just point out for the correct terms for googling it (no luck so far). Thanks
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| 12:33 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 12:33 | <alkisg> jtornero: first step, make it work in a non-ltsp environment
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| 12:34 | second step, make it work as a localapp
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| 12:34 | !localxterm
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| 12:34 | <ltsp`> localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually runs on the server, not on the client itself. If you want to open a program on the client locally, you can type 'ltsp-localapps <program>' in a run dialog or in a terminal. For example, 'ltsp-localapps xterm' to open a terminal running on the client.
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> Then ask here again :)
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| 12:45 | <jtornero> alkisg: Well, what I want is to use that thin-client-usb port (a rpi) to plug the usb device (in this case a usb-to-serial converter) So after reading a while, I guess I should install in chroot usb-managing pakcges and stuff?
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| 13:01 | <vsuojanen> Hi, I had problems with login from both 64 and 32 bit fatclients to 12.04 ltsp-server. I workaround the problem by one lts.conf setting
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| 13:02 | LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d"
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| 13:03 | <vsuojanen> I don't get it because i had the same xsession files in server and chroot /usr/share/xsessions/
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| 13:04 | server .dmrc was Session=ubuntu-2d
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| 13:06 | should I set the fatclient users in chroot or something else ?
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| 13:19 | <guest_____> Hello, are there any documentation on how ltsp internally work and what files influences it? I don't mean general idea of net booting as described on wiki in Concepts. I am specifically interested in where is the configration file for mounting discs, I'd like to get rid of overlayfs and keep it ro only. Thanks!
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| 13:25 | <Hyperbyte> guest_____, what do you want to do with the clients?
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| 13:25 | Why do you want it read-only?
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| 13:35 | <guest_____> Hyperbyte: for enhanced kiosk mode
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| 13:39 | <guest_____> I'd mount only /var and copied the files which needs write to tmpfs for rw with overlayfs, but I'd like to keep the rest as ro
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| 13:40 | <alkisg_web> guest_____: while booting, you also need write access to /etc and elsewhere. Why not let it boot first, and then remount it ro?
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| 13:41 | Check /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d for more
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| 13:41 | <guest_____> alkisg_web: will do, thanks!
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| 13:41 | <alkisg_web> guest_____: of course you do realize that for someone to write to /etc, he'd need root access,
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| 13:41 | and if he has root access, then he can just do an overlay himself...
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| 13:42 | I.e. what you're thinking doesn't really offer security, if that's why you want it...
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| 13:44 | vsuojanen: 12.04 had some bugs wrt sessions, are you using the greek schools ppa that has a newer ltsp version for 12.04?
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| 13:45 | <guest_____> I am thinking there can always be bug in some tool which could potentially offer acces to non-root user, keeping it as ro might lower the chance. Anyway, keeping it as ro is the last step only if all other security feature fails
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| 13:46 | <alkisg_web> It's possible that you'll introduce crashes etc with that
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| 13:46 | <guest_____> preventing user to use sudo or su should be enough, but who knows..
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| 13:50 | <alkisg_web> Do run the browser as a user though, not as root...
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| 13:53 | <guest_____> browser is ran as temporary user while preventing from escaping out of it (including dialogs) but I am just trying to be really cautious.
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| 13:57 | <championofcyrodi> i think the SSH_HASH = true fix only works if the shadow file on the server has the username/pw information to authenticate. using ldap/sssd, that is not the case.
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| 14:15 | <vsuojanen> alkisg_web: I use ltsp5.3.7 for 12.04
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| 14:15 | <alkisg_web> vsuojanen: there could be some bugs there. If you found a workaround, leave it at that...
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| 14:16 | championofcyrodi: LDM_PASSWORD_HASH hashes the password that ldm got from the user, so it doesn't contact the server nor does it read /etc/passwd
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| 14:16 | <vsuojanen> i tested running LTSP_FATCLIENT=False works but when sets LTSP_FATCLIENT=True it didn't
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| 14:17 | <championofcyrodi> alkisg_web, sounds good. I'll give it a test run w/ sssd and let you know.
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| 14:17 | <vsuojanen> there was some fix by vagrantc few months ago https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1272889
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| 14:17 | <alkisg_web> vsuojanen: what's the output of `ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/xsessions` ?
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| 14:18 | <vsuojanen> ls /opt/ltsp/fati386/usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop gnome-shell.desktop ubuntu-2d.desktop ubuntu.desktop
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| 14:18 | ls /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop gnome-shell.desktop ubuntu-2d.desktop ubuntu.desktop
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| 14:19 | <alkisg_web> And if you select a session from the ldm preferences menu, does it work then?
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| 14:19 | Also, at some point we changed it to "LDM_SESSION=ubuntu-2d", the .desktop name
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| 14:19 | <vsuojanen> .dmrc was ubuntu-2d when i tested and still is in my profile
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| 14:19 | <alkisg_web> I don't know if it's there in 5.3.7
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| 14:20 | <vsuojanen> if i changed session in ldm session it didn't make any change. it restarted
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| 14:20 | <alkisg_web> Maybe you should upgrade then... both server and chroot
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| 14:20 | <vsuojanen> but when i added LDM_SESSION to lts.conf it works
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| 14:20 | <alkisg_web> !greek-schools-ppa
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| 14:20 | <ltsp`> greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
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| 14:20 | <alkisg_web> Ah ok if you found a workaround leave it at that
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| 14:21 | <vsuojanen> is the issue in ldm or in the ldm/rc.d scripts ?
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| 14:22 | <alkisg_web> Mostly in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X50-dmrc-processing
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| 14:22 | You could try using a newer version of that...
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| 14:22 | !ltsp-trunk
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| 14:22 | <ltsp`> ltsp-trunk: The LTSP code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
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| 14:22 | <alkisg_web> !ldm-trunk
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| 14:22 | <ltsp`> ldm-trunk: The LTSP Display Manager (LDM) code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk
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| 14:22 | <vsuojanen> by default in ltsp, how do you prefer setting the default desktop between thinclients and fatclients ? from .dmrc or from system
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| 14:22 | <alkisg_web> I let clients decide by themselves if they want to be fat or thin, based on ram,
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| 14:23 | ...and I have a default LDM_SESSION, which users can override using the ldm preferences menu, which then gets saved into .dmrc
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| 14:25 | <vsuojanen> i think that session type should be mutually agreed before setting chroot desktops so in that sense system default should be fine
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| 19:10 | <ternarybit> vagrantc: just want to say thanks for all the help. my little project took off like wildfire at some schools I support
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> ternarybit: nice!
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| 20:43 | <ternarybit> vagrantc: what's the status of the ltsp-cluster project?
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> ternarybit: i think it's a bit dormant
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| 21:13 | but i don't really know
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| 21:13 | haven't seen much from it recently
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| 21:18 | <ternarybit> that was my impression from a quick perusal
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| 21:19 | What about LTSP on armhf / raspberry pi? I saw one of your guides but it looked a bit experimental
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| 21:30 | <vagrantc> ltsp on armhf is definitely rough around the edges
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| 21:30 | i've been meaning to write a post about the status of various boards
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| 21:31 | every board i've found has some problem at this point, some of which can be worked around with a custom kernel
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| 21:31 | <ternarybit> hmm
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| 21:32 | <vagrantc> the best supported so far is the wandboard quad, which has working hdmi video, can network boot with u-boot off the SD card, and has working usb.
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| 21:32 | <vagrantc> cubox-i is similar, although the u-boot support i've worked with doesn't support network booting
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| 21:32 | and the wandboard quad has issues with edid detection (apparently a hardware bug)
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| 21:33 | beaglebone black could work in theory with a custom kernel that fixes usb support
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| 21:33 | sunxi based boards don't have working hdmi video
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| 21:34 | <ternarybit> i had a hard time turning up any good minimal i386 boards, i assume that would make things simpler?
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> rpi has it's own weird bootloader, no kernel in debian (although raspbian comes close), but kind of works
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| 21:35 | yeah, a low-powered x86 board is probably the way to go, unless you want a real tinkering project :)
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| 21:36 | arm boards can be made to work, more-or-less, but it requires significant effort, and might be fine if your demands are very basic
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| 21:36 | <ternarybit> so, installing raspbian on the sdcard, installing ltsp-client and building an armhf chroot is not really recommended?
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> arm support is gradually improving, though
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| 21:36 | ternarybit: some people like it that way.
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| 21:36 | !raspberrypi
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| 21:36 | <ltsp`> raspberrypi: (#1) LTSP with raspberry pi: http://cascadia.debian.net/trenza/Documentation/raspberrypi-ltsp-howto/, or (#2) To use a similar environment to LTSP on the raspberry pi http://berryterminal.com/, or (#3) https://github.com/gbaman/RaspberryPi-LTSP, or (#4) https://pi-ltsp.net
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| 21:37 | <vagrantc> #3 and #4 are part of the same thing
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| 21:37 | i think the pi-ltsp approach basically just puts the kernel and initrd on the SD card, but everything else is network booted
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| 21:38 | i tried the u-boot support on raspberry pi, but it was kind of funky.
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| 21:38 | it would boot, but some video resolution was poor, and maybe sound didn't work
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| 21:38 | <ternarybit> hmm. my needs are very basic, I'm just using the webkiosk screenscript to use either iceweasel or chromium
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> and you have full control over what websites people expect to work?
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| 21:39 | <ternarybit> by no means :) they expect everything to work 100% flawlessly all the time
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| 21:39 | <vagrantc> "just a webbrowser" is effectively "all the webpages on the internet" unless you put some serious limitations on it :)
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| 21:40 | i don't know if chromium is available, but iceweasel definitely was last i looked
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| 21:40 | <ternarybit> well, I just wasn't sure if the main limitation is some element of, say, ubuntu or ldm, and running a single kiosk exe would simplify matters at all
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> my last setup i actually used a rpi with debian armel port, just so i could get reliable security updates (raspbian sometimes lags on big packages like iceweasel)
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| 21:41 | it does, some
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| 21:41 | <ternarybit> still, seems like a *lot* of work. at this point I'd rather salvage old mid-2000s desktops from recycling and just use them
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| 21:43 | still, I'll probably tinker with pi-ltsp just for kicks
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| 21:48 | <vagrantc> i would recommend against pentium 4 systems ... they draw about 50% more power doing nothing than a core2 based system
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| 21:55 | <ternarybit> right, all the candidates I have are core2 or better
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| 21:56 | berryterminal looks interesting
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| 22:09 | * vagrantc prefers plain debian or raspbian | |
| 22:09 | <vagrantc> but i'm pretty biased :)
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| 22:09 | <ternarybit> so, if I want to tinker, just install raspbian and install ltsp-client?
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| 22:10 | * vagrantc should just implement berryterminal using LTSP on Debian or Raspbian images on an SD card | |
| 22:10 | <vagrantc> yeah, that'd be a start
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| 22:10 | you'd have to change the boot arguments to init=/sbin/init-ltsp ... and probably configure a few other things i don't recall off the top of my head
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| 22:14 | <ternarybit> i dunno, it's still pretty complicated. even if i can figure something out, i don't want to have to support a custom solution forever.
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| 22:14 | * vagrantc nods | |
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| 22:14 | <ternarybit> something tells me armhf will eventually get there though
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| 22:14 | <vagrantc> mid-2000s desktops may give some headaches with video card compatibility ...
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| 22:15 | yeah, arm boards have made *huge* strides forward in the last 1-2 years
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| 22:15 | <ternarybit> so far all the dells and gateways have worked 100% video/audio out of the box :)
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> good good
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| 22:16 | <ternarybit> strange that rpi wouldn't support pxe booting. although i guess it is designed more as a hobbyist board, not a thin client
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| 22:36 | <doctari> pxe would require network firmware to support it
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| 22:37 | you could simulate by booting a small os and having it download bigger apps
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| 22:42 | <ternarybit> doctari: I was looking into iPXE, but didn't get very far
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| 23:58 | <vagrantc> PXE, while not strictly x86 based, pretty much only has x86 implementations
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| 23:59 | there are things in the ARM world that *emulate* PXE behavior to some extent (u-boot has PXE emulation support)
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