IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 1 September 2012 (all times are UTC)

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05:23	<Zeut> Hello, I have LTSP up and running on Ubuntu 12.04, and I'm using one of the lts.conf SCREEN_xx variables to have one tty execute xfreerdp to connect to a windows terminal server. Question: How do I get a USB drive plugged into the LTSP client to show up in windows?
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06:00	<alkisg> Zeut: I think the LTSP way is to install ltspfsd in the chroot, search irclogs.ltsp.org, I think Gadi mentioned an exact how to
06:01	The non-LTSP way would be to have an udev hook use udisks to automatically mount any usb sticks the user inserts
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14:45	<markit> question: if I have a file in /home, that is NFS mounted, that points to /var/whatever that is in NBD, will I have double access? I mean an hit to NFS, then it finds that is linked to /var and an access with NBD?
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15:32	<markit> hi alkisg :)
15:33	I've solved the pulseaudio problem, that is a phonon problem, and I did a dirty trick
15:33	I remove the list of audio devices at user login
15:35	also I've pointed to this kde "bug": https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211416
15:36	seems that kde looks for TONS of files after login, so nfs is in troubles
15:43	<alkisg> markit: nfs? or sshfs?
15:43	nfs generally behaves much better than the default sshfs
15:43	But you need to set it up on the server, and put an FSTAB_1=xxx line in lts.conf
15:43	<markit> nfs, but I'm digging right now .kde files and I've found that it does cache a lot
15:44	I use NFS_HOME
15:44	<alkisg> Did you run `mount` and verify it's mounted?
15:44	(on the fat clients...)
15:44	<markit> so if cache is really done, that explains why it takes a LOT of time the first time ever the user logins
15:44	<alkisg> (NFS_HOME is deprecated btw, in favor of FSTAB_x)
15:45	<markit> FSTAB_1=/home ?
15:45	<alkisg> The whole /etc/fstab line
15:45	Google for "mount nfs fstab"
15:45	(trying to make things more ltsp-agnostic...)
15:46	You could also disable nfs locks, IF your users never open the same file for writing...
15:47	<markit> sorry, was on the phone... let me read... the whole fstab?
15:47	I've no entry in /etc/fstab for the server home dir
15:47	or we are mixing stuff?
15:48	mount confirms that home is nfs, and /srv is fuse-ssfh
15:48	<alkisg> Imagine you have a standalone client and want to mount NFS /home from the server, what will you do?
15:48	You'll write an /etc/fstab line on that client
15:48	<markit> I see, thanks
15:48	<alkisg> Well, you do the same for LTSP now, just in line FSTAB_1
15:49	<markit> btw, if I have a file in /home, that is NFS mounted, that points to /var/whatever that is in NBD, will I have double access? I mean an hit to NFS, then it finds that is linked to /var and an access with NBD?
15:49	<alkisg> Symlink or hardlink?
15:49	<markit> hard to tell :)
15:49	let me check
15:50	lrwxrwxrwx 1 insegnante insegnante 28 ago 31 16:35 cache-gnuserver -> /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante
15:50	<alkisg> ln -s => symlink. Symlinks can cross file systems, so if /home/symlink points to /var/whatever, then it's the same as issuing `cat /var/whatever` directly on the client
15:50	ln => hardlink, cannot cross file systems, i.e. that one will use the server file system
15:50	Hardlinks are rarely used, most are symlinks
15:51	(like the one you posted)
15:51	<markit> :)
15:51	<alkisg> In sshfs, there's "follow symlinks" which follows the link on the server
15:51	<markit> but in any case it looks for /home through NFS, and then changes FS and accesses with NBD
15:52	<alkisg> So in that case, you'd be using the server's /var/tmp/kdecache
15:52	Right, that's what symlinks do
15:52	But it's not NBD
15:52	It's tmpfs
15:52	NBD is read only
15:53	<markit> but if in the fat I do a mount \| grep var I have nothing
15:53	<alkisg> The whole / is tmpfs
15:54	<markit> ah
15:54	<alkisg> Actually, tmpfs + squashfs (nbd) + overlayfs
15:54	So all your changes are saved in ram
15:55	<markit> so if I login in a fat client, the server /var/tmp/kdecache is ignored?
15:55	<alkisg> You get the server's /opt/ltsp/i386/var/tmp/kdecache as a starting point, and any changes there are saved in RAM, in the tmpfs
15:56	<markit> seems not since I've entries like cache-ltsp101 -> /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante
15:56	<alkisg> Where is "cache-ltsp101"? Under $HOME?
15:57	<markit> ehm, yes... so only the symlink is created
15:57	<alkisg> Yup
15:57	That's a good thing, it means you're not using NFS for the cache
15:57	<markit> but the /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante not? (and if it is, is because I've logged into the server)
15:57	<alkisg> So since you're using a tmpfs, it's much faster than it would be if you were using NFS
15:58	<markit> alkisg: yep, but the bad thing is that KDE does a lot of work to find files, stores results in cache but fat client will discard it
15:58	<alkisg> Then try sshfs with FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True
15:58	If it needs persistence across logins/reboots, that is...
15:59	Or write another FSTAB line
15:59	<markit> :)
15:59	<alkisg> markit: du -sh /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante?
15:59	How much stuff is there anyway?
15:59	<markit> and export through NFS, but they say is slower for that kind of work than sshfs
16:00	is 109MB
16:00	<alkisg> Woah
16:00	<markit> but the problem, as afar as I understand from the bug
16:00	<alkisg> Why isn't it using ~/.cache???
16:00	<markit> is that KDE tries to find THOUSANDS of files
16:00	<alkisg> markit: let's get that from the start, where's the initial entry under $HOME?
16:01	Just change that one, to point under $HOME again...
16:01	So that each user cache is inside his own home folder
16:01	Whatever that is, sshfs, nfs...
16:01	<markit> ls -l ~/.kde has cache-gnuserver -> /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante
16:01	<alkisg> Right, so change that
16:01	<markit> one entry for each hostname I had loggin it (crazy?)
16:01	cache-ltsp100 -> /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante and cache-ltsp101 -> /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante
16:02	so not a single "root" to change, sigh
16:02	<alkisg> This is where login scripts come in handy
16:02	<markit> :)
16:02	I'm questioning the reasoning behind this behaviour
16:03	<alkisg> You can e.g. create one under /etc/X11/Xsession.d, or from pam.d, or maybe even from /etc/xdg/autostart
16:03	<markit> I think that development is more and more unaware of multiuser needs
16:03	<alkisg> Do question it, and report that you're annoyed :)
16:03	<markit> it's going to be "desktop centric" only
16:03	lol
16:03	back to the easy part... FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True can't help?
16:03	<alkisg> Or, take care to mount /var/tmp/kdecache-$USERNAME from an LDM login script
16:03	Sure, it can
16:04	<markit> btw, since you have a voice in ltsp development
16:04	I've found that the scritp you put under Xsession.d are named strangely
16:04	the "rule" in doc says
16:04	<alkisg> markit: you can also create a symlink from /var/tmp/kdecache-$USER back to /home/$USER/.cache ...
16:04	<markit> number + package_explaination
16:05	<alkisg> So that's just a single point to change
16:05	<markit> instead you have 2 also different among them
16:05	40-ltsp-server and 80_ltsp-sound
16:05	(phone, brb)
16:05	<alkisg> Which dir are you talking about? /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ? That's not an LTSP dir, it's an X dir
16:06	Also, I don't know anything about 40-ltsp-server
16:06	Nor about 80_ltsp-sound, the debian ltsp we're using doesn't have those
16:07	<markit> ah, it's kubuntu....
16:07	extend and improve ;P
16:07	<alkisg> In 12.10 they're probably removed in Ubuntu as well
16:07	They were remains from very old LTSP implementations...
16:07	<markit> I've to run in a short time, I take note of this conversation and do some tests later
16:07	<alkisg> Sure, bb
16:07	<markit> once again I've to tell you that without your help I would never be able to deploy LTSP
16:07	so thanks once again
16:07	<alkisg> That's a bad thing :)
16:08	It means LTSP needs more work!
16:08	<markit> really, I feel so lost
16:08	well, part of the problems is that I want to use KDE, but is not tested so much in ltsp
16:08	so "my foult"
16:08	other is that dev seem not to care about multiuser
16:08	<alkisg> Try to send patches upstream so that it's better supported in the next ltsp/kde versions
16:09	<markit> and last but not least, I'm not very found in GNU/Linux, just "average"
16:09	<alkisg> bbl :)
16:09	<markit> yep, but just figure out what is wrong is really hard for me
16:09	I need to improve my skill on this
16:09	see you later :)
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17:40	<alkisg> !gnome-session
17:40	<ltsp> Error: "gnome-session" is not a valid command.
17:40	<alkisg> !gnome-classic
17:40	<ltsp> gnome-classic: To select gnome-classic as your default session, install the gnome-session-fallback package, and put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-classic"
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19:52	<markit> after that I modify lts.conf, do I have to restart any service? Or just a matter of reboot the client?
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20:04	<markit> hi alkisg, I've added SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True but in host (server) /var/tmp/kde* I've no the kde-cache dir
20:04	is something more I have to do? restart ssh-server?
20:05	<alkisg> markit: disable nfs
20:05	<markit> and isn't that the default value anyway?
20:05	<alkisg> No, for /home it isn't
20:05	<markit> ah, so I should mount home as sshfs and not nfs to have it work? bad thing indeed
20:06	<alkisg> Not too bad though, if it saves you 180mb per login
20:06	<markit> ok, let's try an measure
20:07	<alkisg> It's even easier to setup (since it's the default)... for 12.04 we're trying to follow sshfs as the default - we were using nfs in 10.04, but the relative symlinks problems seem to have gone with /home == not follow symlinks and /other-dirs == follow symlinks
20:09	<markit> mm I've an error, a xterm window after login telling that "Call to lnusertemp failed (temporary directory full?)"
20:10	to "disable NFS" I just commented out HOME_NFS in lts.conf, correct?
20:10	<alkisg> What group does /var/tmp/kde* belong in?
20:11	<markit> well /var/tmp/ drwxrwxrwt 4 root root, and the subdir kde* created (from server) belong to the user
20:11	i.e. drwx------ 7 insegnante insegnante 4096 ago 31 19:13 /var/tmp/kdecache-insegnante
20:11	I could remove .kde in the home and see what happens
20:12	<alkisg> You have a shell in that xterm window?
20:12	Try `locate lnusertemp`, and run it manually...
20:13	<markit> is not a xterm, just an X message, I've the "Okey" button and then I'm back to ldm login
20:14	I can try with follo_symlynk false and see it goes away
20:14	<alkisg> You can also try with SCREEN_07=xterm
20:14	<markit> mmm same error
20:15	<alkisg> Eh?
20:15	That doesn't sound right... so KDE with sshfs doesn't work at all?
20:15	<markit> seems so, but sounds impossible
20:15	or maybe I've never tried it as FAT before
20:15	I can try thin and see what happens
20:16	<alkisg> Nah... no remote file system there
20:16	<markit> ehm, of course :)
20:16	<alkisg> Try SCREEN_07=xterm, and troubleshoot it from there
20:16	E.g. run lnusertemp manually
20:17	<markit> what should happen now? I've the same error/window
20:18	<alkisg> You shouldn't see ldm at all
20:18	Check your lts.conf for errors
20:18	<markit> ok, I forgot to turn off the pc, maybe is that
20:19	<alkisg> Every time you change lts.conf you need to reboot the client
20:20	Also googling for lnusertemp shows some possible solutions, to try in that xterm
20:34	<markit> lnusertemp is not a command I can run from xterm, not present
20:36	is it correct that mount \| grep home results nothing?
20:40	<alkisg> (11:34:17 μμ) markit: lnusertemp is not a command I can run from xterm, not present ==>
20:40	(11:12:44 μμ) alkisg: Try `locate lnusertemp`, and run it manually...
20:40	It might not be in the path
20:40	markit: run cat /proc/mounts and put the result to pastebin
20:41	markit: there's also "LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL" or something that opens an xterm _after_ login, because that xterm now is before login
20:42	LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL=True
20:43	<markit> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1180368/
20:46	I've found the command in 2 places, one /usr/lib/kde4... ad the other /rofs/usr/lib/kde4..
20:46	I've run with option tmp and option chace, runs without complain
20:47	I've also tried with a brand new user, same issue
20:49	now I try LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL=True
20:51	ok, home is there and fuse.sshfs
20:52	lnusertemp can be executed there too
20:52	df -h gives me only /rofs as full
20:53	that is nbd block device
20:54	<alkisg> aufs? Which version are you running?
20:54	12.04 or older?
20:55	12.04 should be using overlayfs by default
20:56	<markit> 12.04
20:56	<alkisg> And the chroot is 12.04 as well?
20:56	<markit> I've seen that in the xterm I'm at /, and has been created .kde and .config there
20:56	yes, 12.04, is a brand new installation
20:57	<alkisg> Something is wrong then, it should be using overlayfs, not aufs
20:57	But anyway lets move on
20:57	Did you say /.kde ? In / ?
20:57	<markit> yes, maybe created by lsusertemp? I can remove and re-try
20:57	<alkisg> Ah ok no, no need
20:58	markit: whoami
20:58	Is that xterm root xterm?
20:58	<markit> yes, I'm root there
20:58	<alkisg> Then switch to the user account, su - username
20:58	And run lnusertemp from there
20:58	<markit> su authentication failed
20:59	<alkisg> id username
20:59	The user is there, right?
20:59	<markit> yes
20:59	uid, gid and groups
20:59	<alkisg> sudo -u username bash -l
21:00	<markit> I'm not a sudoer, refused
21:00	<alkisg> root is not a sudoer?
21:00	<markit> btw, the last is "L" or "1" (one?)
21:00	<alkisg> L
21:00	<markit> root is, but username=mmenardi that is not
21:00	ops
21:00	I'm not root anymore
21:00	<alkisg> OK, try lnusertemp
21:01	<markit> su - mmenardi gave the authenticatino error, but I become username regardless ($)
21:02	ok, errors about "can't create links"
21:02	<alkisg> strace -e trace=file lnusertemp
21:03	i.e. we want the names of the links it tries to create... see why it has no access while it should
21:04	<markit> cannot create links from /home/username/.kde/tmp-ltsp101 to /tmp/kde-username
21:04	<alkisg> /tmp or /var/tmp ?
21:05	Try manually, ln -s
21:05	<markit> is /tmp
21:05	<alkisg> And run some `ls -l` there to see the permissions
21:08	<markit> so I should create ln -s /tmp/kde-username to /home/username/.kde/tmp-ltsp101
21:08	creation of symlink failed: Operation not permitted
21:09	mmm I've 2 strange things there
21:09	the first has permissions: ???????? ? ? ? cache-ltsp101
21:09	the second, same stuff but name is tmp-ltsp101
21:09	never seen all those ????? before in a file system
21:11	in the host I seen instead: lrwxrwxrwx 1 mmenardi mmenardi 26 set 1 22:25 cache-ltsp101 -> /var/tmp/kdecache-mmenardi
21:12	<alkisg> That means it has no access to read the permissions, e.g. a different user trying to access an sshfs mount
21:12	Anyway, gotta go, good luck with it! :)
21:12	<markit> but in .kde there are 2 other dirs that I can see properly
21:12	alkisg: ok, thanks a lot!
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