IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 November 2012 (all times are UTC)
| 00:01 | <kev_j> so I probably screwed something up, but nothing has changed
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| 00:02 | about to put up a paste of the issue
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| 00:04 | http://pastebin.com/Q6CxdW71
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| 00:15 | <lee> in kiosk mode, how do you get firefox to take up the full size of the desktop? I see there's something called devilspie that's in there by default, but it doesn't seem to actually work...
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| 00:25 | <vagrantc> kev_j: all your clients are 64-bit?
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| 00:28 | <kev_j> hey, sorry, finally able to restart the server
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| 00:28 | and yes, all but one
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| 00:28 | ..so far
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| 00:28 | <vagrantc> so you're just retiring that one?
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| 00:29 | <kev_j> no, working off fat-ish clients
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| 00:30 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 00:30 | <kev_j> sorta making our way through the details of getting them up and working
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| 00:31 | and what we want to go with later, so to get used to the system and I can run through troubleshooting they're using desktops until we decide on a thin client system
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| 00:32 | oh snap, thank god, it need to restart, I'm guessing the libc changes hadn't taken effect
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| 00:32 | ?
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| 09:43 | <johnsonmlw> Stupid question... with an obvious answer I would think. Sorry. How do I sudo ltsp-chroot into a chroot sitting at /opt/ltsp/test ?
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| 09:51 | <muppis> ltsp-chroot --help should you give aoptions to do that. IIRC, it goes like -a test
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| 09:53 | <johnsonmlw> Ah. I'd looked at that and the manual. -a does work, thanks. Obviously 'test' isn't an architecture, so I was confused! Thank you!
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| 09:54 | <muppis> :) No problem.
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| 10:26 | <johnsonmlw> Anyone help troubleshoot hanging poweroff issues with clients?
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| 10:29 | Ubuntu 12.04 - I've tried earlier kernels (3.2.0-23-generic), I've tried appending acpi=force. Any other ideas?
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| 10:30 | <gvy> maybe reboot=a,w
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| 10:30 | (still that rather applies to reboot troubles, dunno if related to poweroff as well -- tells to use acpi warm)
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| 10:38 | <johnsonmlw> I'll look it up. Thanks.
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| 17:48 | <kev_j> Has anyone had much luck getting VirtualGL to play friendly with LTSP?
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| 17:50 | <lee> never tried, sorry
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| 17:51 | <kev_j> I've tried a little bit, and found a few things, but nothing that helped figure things out
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| 17:52 | <lee> I have spent the day trying to get onto the console of a kiosk machine via vnc, and I think I just made some progress
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| 17:53 | <kev_j> I did find a video of a Russian video game cafe that uses LTSP and VGL (pretty well from the looks of it) but the explanation is, of course, in Russian
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| 17:53 | <lee> doh
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| 17:53 | how long is the video?
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| 17:53 | <kev_j> congrats on that, I haven't messed around with the vnc thing yet
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| 17:53 | not long, mebbe 3 or 4 minutes
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| 17:53 | <lee> this will sound ridiculous
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| 17:54 | but have a look on fiverr.com for someone who'll translate russian, for $5
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| 17:54 | <kev_j> the explanation is on a different page in text
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| 17:54 | thats kind of cool actually
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| 17:54 | I didn't bother to check it with google or anything because I'm pretty sure the nuances would be lost in translation
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| 18:01 | <kev_j> Do the video drivers need to be installed on the server or in the chroot?
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| 18:01 | <alkisg> chroot
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| 18:02 | <kev_j> thanks
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| 18:05 | <lee> well this is kind of working, but I'm not sure I should be poking ltsp in these places
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| 18:05 | <kev_j> eh?
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| 18:06 | <lee> x11vnc runs now, and I can connect with a client, and input from the client appears on the server, but the client just sees a black screen
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> Open an xterm and run xrandr
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| 18:09 | <lee> well, I can ssh in and run xrandr -display :7, but what am I looking for?
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| 18:10 | <alkisg> Put the output to pastebin
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| 18:10 | !pastebin
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| 18:10 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 18:12 | <lee> can't c&p, so typing it in, brb...
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| 18:12 | <kev_j> yuck
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| 18:14 | <lee> http://pastebin.com/fbscPAyY
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> !disable-screensaver
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| 18:19 | <ltsp> Error: "disable-screensaver" is not a valid command.
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> !screensaver
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| 18:19 | <ltsp> Error: "screensaver" is not a valid command.
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> !gnome-screensaver
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| 18:20 | <ltsp> Error: "gnome-screensaver" is not a valid command.
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> meh.
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| 18:20 | anyone remember the docs to disable screensavers on ubuntu, in particular 12.04?
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| 18:22 | <lee> (this is a kiosk machine in case that matters)
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> lee: and in vnc you're seeing the browser running normally?
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| 18:31 | vagrantc: I don't have it handy, but you can start with this one: $ gsettings list-recursively org.gnome.desktop.screensaver
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| 18:43 | <kev_j> Does running ltsp-update-image unmount proc in 5.4.2-2?
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| 18:46 | <lee> alkisg: in the kiosk client I can see e.g. the mouse moving, but in the vnc client I just get a black screen
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| 18:46 | that sounds confusing
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| 18:47 | <kev_j> or I guess the better question would be if proc wasn't unmounted when ltsp was run, could it cause a kernel panic when booting from the network
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| 18:49 | <lee> what I am trying to achieve is running x11vnc on kiosk clients, so that I can see and control their sessions. I am running xtightvncviewer elsewhere, which is connecting, but shows a black screen. input (mouse movements, etc) is being sent, I just can't see it from the viewer
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| 18:54 | maybe it's an x11vnc problem rather than an ltsp problem
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| 18:57 | ahhh
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| 18:57 | PEBKAC
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| 18:58 | -EUSER_IS_RETARDED
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| 19:01 | <kev_j> this is the problem I had after running ltsp-update-image with proc mounted http://tinypic.com/r/148x7r/6
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| 19:05 | I had to restart to fix it yesterday, couldn't umount proc from the chroot
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| 19:07 | <lee> sorry kev_j, no clue...
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| 19:12 | <kev_j> it seems like there would be something I could kill or a service I could stop, but I can't find it if it's there
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| 19:14 | <lee> I'm only using kiosks I'm afraid
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| 19:31 | <kev_j> is there any way to enable or require that proc unmount before running ltsp-update-image? I guess I could just do something simple like write out umount /opt/ltsp/amd64/proc && ltsp-update-image and throw it in bin
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| 19:32 | but that seems silly
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> it should "just work"
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| 19:33 | <kev_j> I don't know... it did before I upgraded, but now it definately has it in my mount list
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| 19:35 | If I could have screwed it up somehow I probably did though
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| 19:51 | <ball> Anyone heard of a terminal emulator called "tiny term"? A previous employee seems to have installed it on an old desktop PC that's being used as an RDP terminal.
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| 19:52 | Ah, my mistake, it's called "Thinstation"
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| 19:52 | ...think the boss called it "tiny term"
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> thinstation ... isn't that HPs thin-client OS?
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| 19:56 | no, that was thinpro
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| 20:00 | <ball> vagrantc: It's running on a tatty-looking Dell desktop
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| 20:00 | <kev_j> I think I had tried that before ltsp but couldn't get it to work right
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| 20:03 | <ball> I'm starting to understand this now: I /think/ it's booting from a CD
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| 20:03 | ...and storing its config on a floppy disk
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| 20:03 | :-o
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| 20:04 | <||cw> I tried thinstation some years ago
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| 20:04 | yeah, default it can boot off cd or usb, but I htink it can be converted to PXE
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| 20:05 | <ball> I think I have it working now, but I'll see if I can't make this netboot too.
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| 20:06 | Perhaps I can use it to get ltsp in the door.
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| 20:07 | <||cw> ball: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/thinstation/index.php?title=TSoM
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| 20:13 | <ball> Now I have this working, I'll ask the boss' boss whether I can have a Linux VM
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| 20:14 | brb, heading back to my own desk.
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| 20:15 | <lee> aha, I think that's it
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| 20:15 | it's ALIVE!!!
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| 20:16 | not sure if I should have altered the files I have altered, but it is working...
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| 20:17 | all seems to boil down to the .Xauthority not getting created
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| 20:23 | <lee> so today I've mostly been trying to get some kind (don't really care which) of vnc going, so that I can vnc into any given kiosk. turns out, all I really need is the x11vnc package (and its deps) installing, but, I have to edit /opt/ltps/i386/usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc.d/I00-xauth and change XAUTHORITY=`mktemp -u /var/run/xauth-$DISPLAY-XXXXXXXXX` to XAUTHORITY=$HOME/.Xauthority, otherwise x11vnc can't find .Xauthority (and there is no /var/run/xauth-* - on boot there ...
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| 20:23 | ... was a 10-15 second hang whilst xauth timed out trying to create it, probably permissions at a guess)
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| 20:24 | then I created an I99-x11vnc script in the same dir, telling it to use display :7, and all is right with the world (or at least this very small piece of it). now, how do I find out if I a) should have done that and b) if it's likely to break something? :P
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| 20:51 | <Guest40637> halo ..
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| 21:00 | <kev_j> when someone gets a chance can you take a look at my xsession-errors log http://pastebin.com/ELcbsQ6G and let me know if there are just a lot of things I have screwed up or if it is a little more straight forward.... I am sure this will be a pain in the ass though, so... yeah, thanks in advance whether you look or not
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> kev_j: can you sum up your problem? You run ltsp-update-image with chroot/proc mounted, ok, but then I assume you created a new chroot, right?
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| 21:07 | *a new image, with ltsp-update-image without /proc mounted..
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| 21:07 | <kev_j> eh?
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> (09:01:12 μμ) kev_j: this is the problem I had after running ltsp-update-image with proc mounted http://tinypic.com/r/148x7r/6
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| 21:08 | (09:05:53 μμ) kev_j: I had to restart to fix it yesterday, couldn't umount proc from the chroot
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| 21:08 | <kev_j> sorry, I haven't had that happen again yet.. earlier it did, but after about an hour it let me umount it
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> And did you run ltsp-update-image with proc unmounted?
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| 21:09 | <kev_j> yeah, and it worked perfectly fine
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| 21:09 | <alkisg> So now what's your actual problem?
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| 21:09 | <kev_j> but for the time being I don't want to try to get the error again until employees that would complain are gone
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| 21:10 | right now I can't get nautilus to work, and have issues with the package updater...
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| 21:11 | and I think there are other things, but I can't understand everything that is in the xsession-errors file
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| 21:12 | I possibly test the proc thing again in about an hour, but this is the second or third time I have had it happen since updating to wheezy
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| 21:12 | and updating the ltsp-server package
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| 21:13 | info says I am on 5.4.2-2
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> xsession-errors does tend to be verbose ...
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| 21:15 | <kev_j> yeah, I'm not sure which ones are important and which are red herrings and whatnot
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| 21:18 | <kev_j> I have to run into a meeting but I should be back soonish
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| 21:27 | <alkisg> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2012-November/msg00009.html
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| 21:27 | "I'm writing to inform you that the release team discussed https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointSeven/Features/DropOrFixFallbackMode yesterday. We've come to the conclusion that we can't maintain fallback mode in reasonable quality, and are better off dropping it."
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| 21:27 | * vagrantc cheers on LXDE! | |
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| 21:29 | <highvoltage> :(
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| 21:30 | lxde is great but it's not so nice on laptops when you often plug in external displays
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| 21:30 | I guess it's better that they drop it instead of having something broken around though
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| 21:30 | <alkisg> It still worked though, even with some missing features or bugs
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| 21:31 | <highvoltage> yep. I still use it.
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| 21:31 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: free software *can* be improved, i hear :P
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| 21:31 | <alkisg> Half of the schools here lack 3d support or cpu power for software rendering, so we'll have to use something else in 14.04
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| 21:32 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: I already don't get to all the things I'm supposed too (I haven't even gotten one commit to LTSP directly yet)
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: yes, but gnome not working on a variety of hardware might provide the impetus to improve the alternatives
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| 21:33 | <alkisg> highvoltage: what happens with lxde when you plug in an external monitor? No xrandr support there? Or you're just missing the display settings dialog?
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| 21:34 | vagrantc: did you have any major complains with lxde so far?
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| 21:34 | * vagrantc has generally used lxrandr to add displays pretty easy | |
| 21:34 | <highvoltage> alkisg: there is an lxrandr tool, but you have to launch it manually and set up your displays every time
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| 21:34 | alkisg: where gnome is generally good at guessing what I want without me having to touch anything
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> if gnome was good at guessing what i want, it'd exit.
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| 21:35 | <alkisg> :D
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| 21:35 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: heh
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> heard a lot of problems with GNOME3 with LTSP, anyways...
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| 21:36 | will need to recommend a different desktop environment for wheezy+1
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| 21:37 | <alkisg> Another thing that I noticed that LXDE lacks is logout inhibitors (e.g. programs with unsaved documents can't cancel logouts), but those things are minor compared to having a completely non-working DE...
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| 21:38 | <vagrantc> but LXDE does actually support logout/reboot from LTSP by default in wheezy :)
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| 21:39 | <alkisg> And another good thing there is that Ubuntu doesn't mess with it so much, like it does with gnome/unity :)
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| 21:54 | <kev_j> has anyone taken a look at my error file or is it not a good time?
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| 21:57 | <vagrantc> kev_j: sorry, haven't had a chance
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| 22:06 | <kev_j> ok, well I think I put it on an hour long post thingy, so I will post it for longer and whenever, if, you or someone else get around to it, it will actually be there
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| 22:08 | http://pastebin.com/tiCWrqts
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| 22:34 | <kev_j> so, stupid question, but what is ltsp-update-kernels for? I'm looking at the man page but I don't really understand.. is it for updating the boot kernels for pxe or something else?
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| 22:35 | <||cw> kev_j: yes, that copies the kernel and initrd that the chroots are setup for to the pxe/tftp
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| 22:37 | <kev_j> does it do anything with the lts.conf file if it is in the tftpboot dir or is that looked at when the computer boots? (or at some other time, like when you logout and it sorta reloads)
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| 22:38 | <||cw> some of those warnings might be "normal". some seem to imply that the clock is way wrong, or that a library is failing and making it look like the clock it wrong. is this from the client or on the server? can you login locally ok?
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| 22:39 | shoudn't need to mess with lts.conf to update a kernel
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| 22:41 | <kev_j> I didn't particularly mean that in conjunction with the first question but I probably phrased that in a weird way.. when does it actually look at the lts.conf file if it's in the tftpboot dir?
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| 22:43 | and when would I need to run ltsp-update-kernels? would it be when I do updates to the chroot along with ltsp-update-image? or just when I want to do something like change from nbd to nfs?
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| 22:43 | <||cw> you should be able to see it transfer in your tftp log
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| 22:43 | if you have a high enough log level
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| 22:43 | <kev_j> ok, I should raise my log level then
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| 22:44 | <||cw> durring the "starting ltsp..." phase if I had to guess, but I've never gone looking
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| 22:45 | <kev_j> what about the second part (about when to run ltsp-update-kernels)?
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| 22:49 | <kev_j> oh, nevermind, I kinda found something on bootpolish.net... I think I get it a little better
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| 22:50 | thanks for the help and info
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| 22:51 | <||cw> you'd run it when you update the kernel in the chroot
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