IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 September 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:07 | <IBC_jkenney> fixed
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| 00:07 | added a source package did a update
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| 05:01 | <garymc> Yo!
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| 05:09 | <hipy> ]
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| 05:09 | =]
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| 05:37 | <shamael> i have a question for stgraber: i need to create a openvz ltsp server, so i will be trying out your howto for ltsp-cluster. However, i am using proxmox as a host, so i already have the ubuntu templates ready: is the python script "vz-template-creator.py" going to do some peculiar customization or is its output a regular ubuntu template?
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| 06:01 | <ltsppbot> "adsad" pasted "zxzx" (1 line) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/510
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| 06:04 | <ltsppbot> "asdasdsa" pasted "asdasdsa" (1 line) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/512
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| 08:25 | <stgraber> shamael: our template is quite different from the regular ubuntu one, main difference is that it contains ubuntu-minimal and so is a lot closer to a real installation of Ubuntu.
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| 09:32 | <yoshi__> little question i installed firefox as local app with flash plugin did the NAT trick and changed my lts.conf everything works, perfectly after that is installed the ubunty-restricted stuff and java in the chroot. But now when i run firefox as local app is see the plugins installed in firefox but firefox won't pick it up and use them, if i go to a java site it complains it has a missing plugin if i want to see a movie embedded it complains again ... any idea
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| 09:32 | however works when using firefox in non local apps mode.
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| 09:58 | <nainaide> Can I boot from a usb pen to realize wireless ltsp?
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| 10:01 | <sbalneav> nainaide: You could. You'll have to roll it yourself. No one's done any work on this in LTSP.
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| 10:02 | Wireless isn't really a good medium for LTSP, as the latency tends to be too high.
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| 10:03 | <nainaide> sbalneav, someone said only 802.11n afford it , doesn't it?
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| 10:03 | <sbalneav> I have no idea. As I said, no-one's done any work on wireless in LTSP-land.
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| 10:04 | You'd have to play with it yourself.
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| 10:04 | <nainaide> sbalneav, thanks. I will try when avaliable.
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| 10:04 | <sbalneav> A simple test would be to simply try running some remote apps (firefox, Openoffice, etc) over ssh -X into a remote box over wireless.
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| 10:05 | nainaide: You might be waiting a while. I don't think it's on anyone's todo list.
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| 10:05 | <nainaide> sbalneav, got it.
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| 10:26 | <vagrantc> otavio: looks like holger beat you to the ltsp-docs upload :)
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| 10:27 | <ogra> is there a race ?
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| 10:27 | what can you win ?
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| 10:27 | <vagrantc> ogra: there was a race that otavio didn't know about :)
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| 10:27 | <ogra> hehe
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| 10:28 | <vagrantc> seems like NEW processing for debian has been moving a lot faster ... let's see how it goes.
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| 10:38 | <panthera> it depends on who's uploading; everyone but me gets fast NEW processing.
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| 10:38 | <johnny> :(
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| 10:38 | ogra, i'm going to pm you
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| 10:39 | but for no good reason.. just to test my irc client (transport)
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| 10:40 | <shamael> hi I'm going through the ltsp-cluster howto, but I'm stuck at nbd image creation
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| 10:40 | there seems to be small bug in a folder path
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| 10:41 | I get "umount: /opt/ltsp/i386//proc: not mounted"
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| 10:43 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Oooh, you got it packaged?
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| 10:43 | How?
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| 10:44 | <ogra> tape, lots of tape
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| 10:44 | <sbalneav> Is it not in a good format for packaging?
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| 10:45 | * ogra was just joking ... :) | |
| 10:46 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: it's not in the official archive yet, but you can download it from the skolelinux repository: http://ftp.skolelinux.org/skolelinux/pool/local/l/ltsp-docs/
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| 10:46 | sbalneav: or: dget http://ftp.skolelinux.org/skolelinux/pool/local/l/ltsp-docs/ltsp-docs_0.99+bzr91-1.dsc
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| 10:48 | sbalneav: all it does is install the generated pdf and html build, the manpage, and all those files that we don't know how to register with yelp
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| 10:49 | sbalneav: crazy simple packaging for his one. good job on your Makefile.
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| 10:51 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "ltsp-docs debian packaging" (82 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/552
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| 10:52 | <ogra> yay, dh7 :)
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> it really makes the world a better place.
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| 10:52 | <ogra> yep
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| 10:52 | packaging boiled down to a two liner :)
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> there is this clause in the licensing: If you modify the software in any way, identify your software as
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| 10:53 | a variant of LTSP.
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| 10:53 | <ogra> fine for ubuntu :P
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| 10:54 | bad for debian i guess
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| 10:54 | <vagrantc> not sure.
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| 10:54 | we'll find out, because i didn't do anything special.
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| 10:55 | i mean, right now, i don't make any modifications ... but when freeze comes, may need to make patches to get it consistant with the version to be included in the stable release.
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| 10:56 | <ogra> well, i think that sentence can be very widely interpreted
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| 10:56 | given that your packages are all called ltsp-something ... i would say thats fulfilled to 100%
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| 10:57 | <vagrantc> with that interpretation, we may as well remove that clause from the licensing entirely.
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| 10:57 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Awesome
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| 10:57 | * sbalneav hugs vagrantc | |
| 10:57 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: it was really the easiest packaging i've ever done :)
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| 10:58 | <sbalneav> I should look at something like gnome-terminal's packaging, I know it's docs are xml, it does some scrollkeeper magic.
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| 10:58 | * vagrantc hopes the debian/copyright is sufficient | |
| 10:58 | <vagrantc> scrollkeeper, eh?
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| 10:58 | <johnny> rarian now..
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| 10:58 | <ogra> scrollkeeper is dead since ages
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| 10:59 | <sbalneav> Then how come every time I have gnome updates, there's always the long pauses for "updating scrollkeper"
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| 11:00 | <ogra> ancient release ?
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| 11:00 | * vagrantc ponders the meaning of ancient | |
| 11:00 | <ogra> hardy :)
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| 11:01 | <sbalneav> I always love ogra's pronouncements of doom. "<x> is dead since ages". He's like #ltsp's personal Mandos!
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| 11:01 | <ogra> heh
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| 11:01 | <sbalneav> Oh, yeah, that "Long Term Support" release us businesses are supposed to use :)
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| 11:01 | http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Mandos
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| 11:01 | <ogra> i think the dpkg hook never changed its text
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| 11:02 | scrollkeeper was actually put to dead in/pre hardy
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| 11:02 | <johnny> yes.. i remember when rarian came.. there was a package scrollkeeper-compat for awhile on gentoo
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| 11:02 | * sbalneav awaits ogra's rendition of "The Doom of the Noldor" | |
| 11:02 | <johnny> while everything updated
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| 11:04 | <sbalneav> "Patches unnumbered ye shall shed, and jammcq shall fence #ltsp against you, and shut you out..."
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| 11:04 | Is my nerd showing?
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| 11:05 | <johnny> one of the most famous ruby community members recently quit, his twitter message was something like .. why bother, it all becomes obsolete quickly anyways
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| 11:05 | <ogra> *grin*
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| 11:05 | <johnny> he wrote "why's poignant guide to ruby"
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| 11:05 | filled with cartoon foxes
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| 11:06 | hmm.. i'm getting 1.2 mb/s on my wireless outside.. that's not too bad...
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| 11:09 | <hipy> Wow! I just installed ubuntu 9.04 with ltsp ( altnerate cd
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| 11:09 | that login screen is nice!
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| 11:09 | btw in the bottom i now see ltsp20 ( ip is 0.20 )
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| 11:09 | is that connected with eachother?
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| 11:10 | <vagrantc> yes, based on ip address
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| 11:10 | <hipy> ok
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| 11:10 | then this is a new version of ltsp:D
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| 11:10 | <vagrantc> well, ancient by now.
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| 11:10 | <ajohnson> I'm wondering if it's possible to put a complete OS install in /opt/ltsp and then use the PXE image that loads on boot to mount the complete OS.
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| 11:11 | No remote execution, just use the framework to PXE boot an entire OS with NBS filesystem
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| 11:11 | <hipy> Well, i dont know a lot about pxe what i do know is that you can install from a thinclient the os
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| 11:11 | :p
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| 11:11 | <ogra> ajohnson, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot
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| 11:12 | <ajohnson> ogra: Looking, thanks for the link
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| 11:13 | I would want to make sure /home was mounted as an NFS share for config file persistance, but other than that, this type of thing is pretty close to what I'm looking for
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| 11:13 | user preferences, etc
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| 11:14 | <ogra> newer releases of the livecd have a persistence flag ... not sure that works over the net though
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| 11:14 | <ogra> its more for USB keys running a live system and having a spare partition
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| 11:14 | <ajohnson> right
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| 11:14 | <ogra> you could use it and hand out every user a usb key ;)
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| 11:15 | <ajohnson> XMB for live system, YMB for persistance
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| 11:15 | <ogra> they would keep the persistent data on it
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| 11:15 | <ajohnson> hehehe
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| 11:15 | Our system operates in a prison, so I can't do that, unfortunately
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| 11:15 | I would have to superglue them in to the USB slot :)
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| 11:16 | <yoshi__> hi everyone installation ltsp5 ubuntu jaunty everything works and when we put on the terminal it boots quickly until the login screen, then when we login with a username and pass the desktop loads verry slowly first we see the wallpaper, then an empty pannel, wait 40 seconds then the application shortcuts and at last the desktop icons after 1 minute.
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| 11:16 | our network is gigabit
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| 11:16 | any idea's
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> yoshi__: after that, does it run fast?
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| 11:17 | <yoshi__> yes
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| 11:17 | then it runs normal except if iam into firefox and click the right mouse button
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| 11:17 | but i read there is a patch for that
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> Yeah...
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| 11:18 | And is that an ltsp problem? I.e. if you sit on the server, it opens faster?
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| 11:18 | <yoshi__> i installed an ltsp before with 8.10 and there everything was fast after the login
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| 11:18 | yes on the server its instantly its a dual quad core with 32 gig of ram
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| 11:18 | a dell T605
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> Try with the patch first, maybe it'll also solve this and you won't have to debug it...
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| 11:19 | <yoshi__> ok tx but i see the patch here how ot i deploy the patch i never did that
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> It's there: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/ppa
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| 11:20 | <yoshi__> ok tx ill try that
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> ...you can put this ppa in your sources, both in the server and the chroot, and dist-upgrade both of them
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| 11:21 | <yoshi__> alkisg i got another question a ask many times but nobody seems to know it or is able to answer
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| 11:21 | tx alkisg :)
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| 11:21 | i installed firefox as local app with flash plugin did the NAT trick and changed my lts.conf everything works, perfectly after that is installed the ubunty-restricted stuff and java in the chroot. But now when i run firefox as local app is see the plugins installed in firefox but firefox won't pick it up and use them, if i go to a java site it complains it has a missing plugin if i want to see a movie embedded it complains again ... any idea ? It however wor
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| 11:21 | using firefox in non local apps mode.
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| 11:21 | i am trying to figure this out now for almost 2 weeks
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| 11:22 | now the kids are working on the server and not as local app firefox
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| 11:22 | it works but i would rather use the power of our clients
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| 11:22 | for firefox
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| 11:23 | could you have any idea or where to look
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| 11:23 | or do i have to reboot the server
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| 11:23 | that is what i thinking now
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| 11:23 | mmm
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| 11:24 | <alkisg> No, you shouldn't have to reboot the server
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| 11:24 | But I see that ubuntu-restricted-extras depend on gconf, and gconf doesn't work as a localapp. Maybe that has something to do with it.
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| 11:25 | I haven't tried it, though, except only for the flash player which worked.
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| 11:25 | <yoshi__> ahaa an answer
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| 11:25 | flash works great
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| 11:25 | the rest java and so on don't
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| 11:25 | and the school uses java en quicktime movies and so on
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> Java isn't in the ubuntu-restricted-extras package, though
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| 11:26 | <yoshi__> no thats right, but it doesnt work either
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| 11:26 | while i see the plugins installed
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| 11:26 | * alkisg doesn't have a clue about this. :) | |
| 11:27 | <Lns> yoshi__, java browser plugin isn't working for you?
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| 11:28 | <yoshi__> Lns not if firefox is installed as local app
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| 11:28 | <Lns> yoshi__, did you install sun-java6-plugin in the chroot?
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| 11:28 | <yoshi__> Lns yes
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| 11:28 | everything
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| 11:28 | <Lns> it's listed in about:plugins?
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| 11:28 | <yoshi__> i used the restriced and installed this together with java
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| 11:28 | Lns yes
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| 11:29 | alkisg tx for all the help and advice
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| 11:29 | <alkisg> yw :)
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| 11:29 | <Lns> hrm
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| 11:29 | have you tried creating a new test user and trying localapp firefox with that?
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| 11:30 | maybe something in your .mozilla is preventing from seeing the globally installed plugin?
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| 11:30 | * Lns doesn't have much exp. w/localapps yet so bear with him | |
| 11:33 | <yoshi__> Lns i will try that
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| 11:33 | great suggestion
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| 11:34 | i will keep you guys posted :)
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| 11:34 | <Lns> ok
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| 11:34 | <yoshi__> who is actually in charge of ltsp ?
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| 11:34 | is there a developers group we can write to ?
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| 11:34 | how many people are working on it ?
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| 11:34 | <sbalneav> You're on it right now.
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| 11:34 | Gadi, vagrantc, warren, ogra, stgraber, myself, etc.
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| 11:35 | <yoshi__> aha
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| 11:35 | <ogra> dont forget johnny
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| 11:35 | <yoshi__> :)
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| 11:35 | <sbalneav> Ah, yes!
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| 11:35 | <yoshi__> you guys schould get paid !! your doing a great job :)
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| 11:35 | i had milions for sure i would sponser this :)
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| 11:35 | <sbalneav> We do get paid: by our respective jobs. This we do for fun.
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| 11:36 | Well, speaking for myself, anyway.
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| 11:36 | <yoshi__> you schould have this as job :)
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| 11:36 | <Lns> yoshi__, money just gets in the way of creative development ;)
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| 11:36 | <yoshi__> ltsp could be a great open source alternative for citrix and ms ts
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| 11:36 | <Lns> it is. ;)
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| 11:37 | <sbalneav> It is already :)
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| 11:37 | <yoshi__> Lns: yes thats true but people also have more time to work on it, now they have to work 8 ours a day and in the after ours the dev
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| 11:37 | <johnny> yoshi__, well.. some of the use cases it's not good at. like over the internet
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| 11:37 | which citrix stuff is good for.
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| 11:37 | but there are other free solutions
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| 11:37 | <yoshi__> sbalneav: yes it is but still there are some futures that are missing that we can use
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| 11:37 | <Lns> of course there's freenx too ;)
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| 11:37 | <johnny> perhaps google's nx server will help..
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| 11:37 | i wonder if they are working on it still
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| 11:37 | <yoshi__> yes neatnx
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| 11:37 | <Lns> neatx *
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| 11:38 | <sbalneav> yoshi__: So, send us patches.
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| 11:38 | * Lns thinks sbalneav has "So, send us patches" on a hotkey ;) | |
| 11:38 | <yoshi__> sbalneav: if i could code immediatly but i dont't know how to even start
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| 11:38 | <sbalneav> I've said it a million times
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| 11:39 | Free software isn't about US solving YOUR problems. It's about helping YOU to solve YOUR problems. :)
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| 11:39 | <Lns> +1
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| 11:39 | <yoshi__> for example sabayon its a tool that we miss :)
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| 11:39 | <johnny> consumers becoming producers..
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| 11:39 | that's what this whole internet social networking thingamabob is about to me..
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| 11:39 | <sbalneav> yoshi__: You know, of course, I've been fixing it, yes?
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| 11:39 | <Lns> case in point: I found a cool firefox config editor switch that helped my schools out (disable password manager). I simply put it on the ubuntu wiki so i could reference it. And for everyone else, too. =)
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| 11:40 | <yoshi__> yes if you can code you can change something but when i look at ltsp i don't know where to start
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> It's working now in Karmic, and I have PPA packages for Jaunty
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> Lns, link?
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| 11:40 | <yoshi__> sblaneav no ? i didn't know that does it work again under jaunty
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| 11:40 | ooo
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| 11:40 | <Lns> alkisg, the ubuntu ltsp wiki under 'optimizing firefox'
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> Check my ppa
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| 11:40 | <johnny> yoshi__, there's also documentation, art, translation,
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| 11:40 | there are plenty of non code ways to contribute
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> http://launchpad.net/~sbalneav
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| 11:40 | <Lns> yeah..i'm not a coder by far
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> ok, off for lunch
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| 11:41 | <yoshi__> johnny im busy writing an installation tutorial how we did in our school
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| 11:41 | its not much but maybe i can help others
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| 11:41 | <johnny> try not to duplicate what already exists
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| 11:41 | did you read !docs
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| 11:42 | err
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| 11:42 | !docs
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| 11:42 | <ltspbot> johnny: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 11:42 | <johnny> who's bot? i like the syntax of this other bot we use in some xmpp rooms
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| 11:42 | where you could say
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| 11:42 | <Lns> yoshi__, sound like that would fit well on the SuccessStories part of the ltsp.org wiki
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| 11:42 | <johnny> did you read [xep 182]
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| 11:42 | and it would print the link
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> Lns: nice, thanks! Except for "// Disable offline/disk caching of web pages" which I think should be enabled unless one has squid installed.
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| 11:42 | <yoshi__> Lns well i was thinking of putting it there
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| 11:42 | <Lns> yoshi__, you should
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| 11:42 | <yoshi__> i thinks i woulde be the first belgian school
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| 11:43 | 6 schools to be exactly
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| 11:43 | :)
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| 11:43 | <Lns> alkisg, well it's kind of redundant when you have many hundreds of users caching the same webpages ;)
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| 11:43 | <yoshi__> 2000 students
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| 11:43 | <Lns> nice!
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| 11:43 | <otavio> vagrantc: sorry :( I'm short in time lately
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| 11:43 | <Lns> that's a pretty hefty install =)
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| 11:43 | <yoshi__> we just integrated google apps for education
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| 11:43 | <Lns> write about how that went too.
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| 11:43 | <alkisg> Lns: no, because they are cached in different dirs and if you don't cache them they'll just be downloaded again and again
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| 11:43 | <Lns> i'm sure lots could benefit from your experience
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| 11:43 | myself included
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| 11:44 | <yoshi__> Lns yes and the 6 locations are app 20 km from eachoter
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| 11:44 | <johnny> uggh.. more software needs to stop slacking off and go xdg
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| 11:44 | <Lns> alkisg, ? caching is per-user isn't it? in ~/.mozilla
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| 11:44 | <johnny> Lns, it would make software like sabayon much easier to take care of ..
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| 11:44 | <yoshi__> now they are paying microsoft a lot of licenses
| |
| 11:44 | thats why i was looking for sabayon :)
| |
| 11:44 | <alkisg> Lns: yes, so why would you disable that cache? :-/
| |
| 11:45 | <Lns> alkisg, think of the server hdd space, disk writes when many are using firefox, etc
| |
| 11:45 | that's a lot of stuff going on for just cache that is probably used elsewhere, like you said, a central proxy
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| 11:45 | zamba has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:45 | <Lns> i'm not saying you HAVE to enable it, either.. ;)
| |
| 11:45 | just put it down as a useful option
| |
| 11:45 | <yoshi__> Lns google apps for education i great really
| |
| 11:46 | <alkisg> Lns: I agree that using squid is a better solution, but turning off cache and re-downloading everything again and again from the internet is a bad idea if one doesn't have squid...
| |
| 11:46 | <Lns> alkisg, agreed...
| |
| 11:46 | <alkisg> Lns: in any case, thanks, the other ones were really helpful :)
| |
| 11:46 | <yoshi__> its not diffucult to maintain and easy to setup, the only thing that can be confusion it to many options for users
| |
| 11:46 | <Lns> alkisg, ;)
| |
| 11:46 | yoshi__, does google apps have a presentation/slideshow app?
| |
| 11:47 | * Lns is scared for when teachers start using OOo impress and run into the pixmap bug again :( | |
| 11:47 | <yoshi__> Lns yes
| |
| 11:47 | <johnny> i wonder what it will take to fix that thing Lns
| |
| 11:47 | that is certainly far above my pay grade
| |
| 11:47 | <Lns> johnny, i have no clue..people keep saying they're going to look at it and then they don't
| |
| 11:48 | <johnny> maybe you should put up a bounty for it..
| |
| 11:48 | and post it to slashdot :)
| |
| 11:48 | <Lns> heh
| |
| 11:48 | * Lns loves inurl:domain.tld for google | |
| 11:49 | <Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/openoffice/+bug/315300
| |
| 11:49 | <johnny> i wonder how much all this new work in cleaning up X will help Lns
| |
| 11:49 | <Lns> everyone should comment on that as well as the upstream =)
| |
| 11:49 | johnny, ?
| |
| 11:49 | <johnny> kms, gallium 3d, etc
| |
| 11:49 | <Lns> johnny, ?? url?
| |
| 11:49 | <yoshi__> well it was very intressting talking to you all :) tx for all the help i will surely come back an contribute as soon as we got something finnisched, next week our main server is going life for 130 kids approx for the first school :)
| |
| 11:49 | <johnny> huh?
| |
| 11:50 | Lns, aren't you familiar with kms?
| |
| 11:50 | <Lns> yoshi__, nice. definitely come back and chat
| |
| 11:50 | nope
| |
| 11:50 | lemme google
| |
| 11:50 | <johnny> seriously?
| |
| 11:50 | <ogra> kernel mode switching
| |
| 11:50 | <johnny> drivers are moving to the kernel..
| |
| 11:50 | kernel mode setting ogra
| |
| 11:50 | <ogra> wont gain you speed on X though
| |
| 11:50 | yeah, that :)
| |
| 11:50 | <Lns> ooooh that's right
| |
| 11:50 | <johnny> no.. i didn't say it would.. i'm talking about maintability
| |
| 11:51 | <Lns> so no .5sec delay when switching TTYs?
| |
| 11:51 | <johnny> and being able to have people figure out where problems are easily
| |
| 11:51 | or easier.. rather
| |
| 11:51 | maintainability*
| |
| 11:51 | <Lns> oh
| |
| 11:51 | <johnny> Lns, more work happens in the kernel, less in X
| |
| 11:51 | as the process has been going
| |
| 11:52 | as have been going with hal and udev
| |
| 11:52 | and how most people don't need xorg.conf
| |
| 11:52 | etc
| |
| 11:52 | <Lns> s/switching/setting/ ?
| |
| 11:52 | <johnny> yes
| |
| 11:52 | <Lns> http://www.workswithu.com/2009/07/15/ubuntu-910-preview-kernel-mode-setting/
| |
| 11:52 | <johnny> Lns, it's better in fedora
| |
| 11:52 | since ubuntu is going a different route for splash
| |
| 11:52 | than fedora
| |
| 11:53 | fedora uses kms for the splash and switching to x (via plymouth)
| |
| 11:53 | ubuntu is going to focus on getting to X quicker in karmic +1
| |
| 11:53 | <Lns> that's pretty cool.
| |
| 11:55 | <johnny> Lns, you should probably read 2 sites more frequently
| |
| 11:55 | <Lns> I remember a DOS attack a long time ago by rapidly hitting CTL+ALT+Fn that would lock the video in linux...
| |
| 11:55 | <johnny> phoronix, and lwn archives
| |
| 11:56 | <Lns> johnny, i'll check em out, thx
| |
| 11:56 | <johnny> phoronix is kinda a gamersite or linux "power user" site..
| |
| 11:56 | which means they talk about benchmarks and new video stuff in linux alot
| |
| 11:56 | along with hardware reviews and whatnot
| |
| 11:56 | <Lns> cool
| |
| 11:57 | <johnny> lwn is more for developers, but i still think you would appreciate it
| |
| 11:57 | lwn is a pay site.. the first week the archive is closed
| |
| 11:57 | then it is open when the next one comes out
| |
| 11:57 | it is worth paying for
| |
| 11:57 | but you should browse it often even if you can't afford to pay yet
| |
| 11:57 | ask dberkholz about it
| |
| 11:57 | he pays for it :)
| |
| 11:57 | if you want a testimonial
| |
| 11:59 | <Lns> hehe.. ok
| |
| 11:59 | <johnny> it is the most concise way to keep up with big security issues, new features, distro releases, etc
| |
| 12:00 | if there is one site you'd want to go to keep track of what is happening in the development community.. that would probably be it
| |
| 12:00 | <Lns> i've been on lwn a few times before...very good site
| |
| 12:01 | <johnny> as soon as i can afford it.. i'm going to pay
| |
| 12:01 | that and phoronix..
| |
| 12:01 | phoronix is probably cheaper
| |
| 12:01 | $10 for 3 months
| |
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| 13:16 | <nivelpp> hi , i have one quation abou bootin thin clients , i want to boot thin clients behind nat
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| 13:16 | my configuration dhcpd on the nat:
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| 13:16 | subnet 172.16.20.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
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| 13:16 | range 172.16.20.10 172.16.20.100;
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| 13:16 | option domain-name-servers xx.32.yy.5;
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| 13:16 | | |
| 13:16 | option routers 172.16.20.1;
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| 13:16 | next-server xx.32.yy.30;
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| 13:16 | option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
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| 13:16 | if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "PXEClient" {
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| 13:16 | filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
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| 13:16 | } else {
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| 13:16 | filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img";
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| 13:16 | }
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| 13:16 | }
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| 13:16 | | |
| 13:16 | but tftp does not search image on the correct server
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| 13:16 | i thing he search it on the nat
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| 13:17 | xx.32.yy.30 is public ip , and there is correstly configured ltsp
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| 13:18 | can you help me ? thanks
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| 13:23 | <hipy> Darn
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| 13:23 | Those graphic designers at ltsp did a nice job on login screen on ubunt 9.04
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| 13:23 | :)
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> nivelpp: if you sit on a pc in the "local" network, install a tftp client, and try to get e.g. the kernel from the remote tftp server, does that work?
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| 13:25 | johnny has left #ltsp | |
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| 13:27 | <nivelpp> alkisg: i am going to try this
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| 13:27 | johnny is now known as Guest41664 | |
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| 13:40 | <nivelpp> alkisg: no it is not working , it says unknown host ...
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> nivelpp: unknown host? aren't you trying with the ip?
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| 13:40 | <nivelpp> yes i am
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| 13:41 | i have installed tftp from ubuntu 9.10
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> nivelpp: does tftp work over nat? I don't know...
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| 13:41 | <nivelpp> alkisg: is there possible solution ?
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> nivelpp: well, one way is to install a tftp server locally, and copy the remote server's dir there
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| 13:44 | <nivelpp> alkisg: dir tree, this means that i have to install tftp server on nat , and copy /var/lib/tftpboot and /opt/ltsp ?
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> The downside is that every time you update the chroot's kernels, you'll need to copy them to the local tftp server also
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| 13:44 | nivelpp: only the /var/lib/tftpboot dir
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| 13:45 | nivelpp: but let me say again that *I don't know* if tftp works over nat. If it does, then you don't need to do the copying...
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| 13:47 | <nivelpp> alkisg: i have found this http://www.tftp-server.com/tftp_server_faq.html , your answer is correct
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| 13:49 | <alkisg> nivelpp: ok. So just install a local tftp server, it shouldn't be hard...
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| 13:50 | nivelpp: also, if you're going to have many such nat subnets, take a look at this: http://resin.csoft.net/cgi-bin/man.cgi?section=8&topic=tftp-proxy
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| 13:50 | I didn't read it, but if it is indeed a proxy tftp server, then you don't have to copy/update the tftpboot dir
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| 13:51 | nivelpp: lastly, I think gpxe can be used to boot over http instead of over tftp
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| 13:52 | <nivelpp> alkisg: yes ok , i will install tftpd and copy /vat/lib/tftpboot , is there some specific configuration and what files i need to copy every image update ?
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> Copy ==> the whole /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 dir, configuration ==> you need to tell the clients where the ltsp server is
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| 13:54 | One way to do that is by appending nbdroot=<ip>:/path to pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 13:56 | <Lns> Who's using Jaunty LTSP?
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| 13:56 | * alkisg raises hand | |
| 13:57 | <nivelpp> alkisg: thanks
| |
| 13:57 | <Lns> alkisg, can you give me a very brief line as to its stability overall? I'm considering upgrading one of my school servers from Hardy because of the need for localapps.
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| 13:57 | nivelpp has left #ltsp | |
| 13:58 | <alkisg> Lns, imho, quite stable, except for some intel-based cards
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| 13:59 | <Lns> Hmm.
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> Lns, of course updating from stgraber's ppa is needed; but maybe you don't want to keep it to your sources after the update :-/
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| 14:00 | <Lns> alkisg, what does stgraber's ppa do for ltsp in jaunty?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> Lns, fixes the xlib bug, fixes the ldm hanging at logout bug...
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| 14:01 | <Lns> xlib = the slow java thing?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> Yes, and the right firefox click
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| 14:01 | <Lns> ah
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| 14:01 | see i don't get the right-click firefox bug in hardy
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> Well, with the updates you won't get it in jaunty either
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| 14:02 | <Lns> anyway...i'm considering the upgrade because i'm getting many complaints of slow firefox and lockups in our java-based typing tutor
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| 14:02 | and other misc. sites
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| 14:02 | we're gonna have to upgrade the ram in our clients though, too, they only have 128mb
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> Lns, go for it
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| 14:02 | Lns, you don
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| 14:02 | don't need to update it unless you need localapps
| |
| 14:03 | I have clients with 64 / 128 ram, they work find
| |
| 14:03 | fine
| |
| 14:03 | <Lns> well i'm assuming we'll need localapps for firefox/openoffice at least
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| 14:03 | maybe i can build a jaunty vm and simply switch back and forth to test...
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> Lns, you could tar the server's / partition to another partition, do an upgrade, and if it doesn't go well, just use the hardy partition...
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| 14:04 | * alkisg always has 2 partitions with the os in them | |
| 14:06 | <Lns> true true
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| 14:06 | hmmmmmm
| |
| 14:08 | <alkisg> Lns, how much ram do you suppose you'll put to your clients?
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| 14:08 | <Lns> alkisg, I'm not sure what the limit is on them, i'm guessing probably 512
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> Yeah you'd be seeing great improvements in speed with localapps and 512Mb...
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| 14:09 | <Lns> it's going to be a tough sell though, they were expecting everything to 'just work' the way it is
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| 14:09 | the CPUs are Via 1GHz though, which i'm kind of wondering about...
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> This year I'm on a school with brand new core 2 duo PCs, with 2 Gb RAM etc... I want to try a non-LTSP setup for once, and see how that goes with administration...
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| 14:13 | <Lns> alkisg, how do you plan on centralizing administration?
| |
| 14:15 | <alkisg> I'm not sure, but I'm going to invest some months on learning about this. LDAP vs NIS vs insecure nfs-exported /etc/passwd, NFS vs AFS vs local /home dirs, cloning partitions, developing scripts for tasks...
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| 14:15 | If anyone has any proposals/pointers, I'm all ears :)
| |
| 14:18 | <Lns> i'd say ldap would really be the way to push
| |
| 14:19 | ah, nm, the clients we have are Via 800MHz...jeez i dunno if that would even handle localapp firefox..
| |
| 14:19 | * Lns sighs | |
| 14:19 | nivelpp has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:21 | <nivelpp> alkisg: i was able to boot pxelinux but system faild to start , can you explain what you min in this line ? (20:54:30) alkisg: One way to do that is by appending nbdroot=<ip>:/path to pxelinux.cfg/default
| |
| 14:21 | i have only add lts.conf , with SERVER=ip
| |
| 14:21 | <alkisg> nivelpp: did it hang in busybox?
| |
| 14:23 | <nivelpp> alkisg: yes , exactly
| |
| 14:23 | <alkisg> nivelpp: in the *local* tftp server, do: sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
| |
| 14:23 | and append nbdroot=<ltsp-server-ip>,2000 after the "quiet splash"
| |
| 14:24 | (in the same line, not in a new one)
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| 14:26 | <Lns> alkisg, you running 64-bit jaunty?
| |
| 14:26 | <alkisg> Nope, i386
| |
| 14:27 | <Lns> hmm
| |
| 14:27 | do you know of any lagging issues w/amd64 in jaunty for ltsp?
| |
| 14:27 | lagging meaning unresolved..
| |
| 14:27 | <alkisg> Sorry, no idea about amd64
| |
| 14:28 | <Lns> k
| |
| 14:30 | <nivelpp> alkisg: is this configuration correct ?
| |
| 14:30 | DEFAULT localboot
| |
| 14:30 | TIMEOUT 50
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| 14:30 | PROMPT 1
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| 14:30 | DISPLAY display.msg
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| 14:30 | LABEL linux
| |
| 14:30 | KERNEL vmlinuz
| |
| 14:30 | APPEND ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdroot=xx.88.yy.30,2000
| |
| 14:30 | LABEL localboot
| |
| 14:30 | LOCALBOOT 0
| |
| 14:40 | <Lns> Does anyone use Epiphany web browser w/ltsp ?
| |
| 14:41 | nivelpp has left #ltsp | |
| 14:45 | <Guest41664> my users used it a couple releases ago when firefox was giving me constant "firefox is already running" errors
| |
| 14:45 | that was an annoying period
| |
| 14:46 | lemem change my nick :(
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> nivelpp: I think you need to use : instead of comma: nbdroot=xx.88.yy.30:2000
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| 14:52 | <nivelpp> alkisg: ok , i wil try it
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| 15:30 | <nivelpp> alkisg: thanks , you are awesome , it works
| |
| 15:30 | :)
| |
| 15:30 | <alkisg> Nice!!! :)
| |
| 15:31 | <nivelpp> alkisg: but i have many other problems now :)
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> Heh... :P like?
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| 15:33 | <nivelpp> alkisg: it is very slow (especially gnome menu) ... and when i try to set LDM_DIRECTX=True , i can not log in ( when i type pass and press enter , screen goes blank with mouse bussy cursor )
| |
| 15:33 | <alkisg> nivelpp: how fast is your network link?
| |
| 15:33 | <nivelpp> it is not limited with hardware ... server is six core intel , and nat is dual coore amd
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| 15:34 | connection between nat and server is 100Mbit
| |
| 15:34 | <vagrantc> NAT ?
| |
| 15:34 | LDM_DIRECTX won't work over NAT
| |
| 15:34 | <nivelpp> vagrantc: yes nat
| |
| 15:34 | vagrantc: oh, that is bad
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> there's NAT between the server you're logging into and your thin clients?
| |
| 15:35 | <nivelpp> vagrantc: yes
| |
| 15:35 | <vagrantc> no LDM_DIRECTX for you.
| |
| 15:36 | <nivelpp> i dont understand why it is so slow with ssh compression and encryption
| |
| 15:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc: just wondering, why?
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| 15:37 | <nivelpp> alkisg: do you thing that it is possible ?
| |
| 15:37 | <alkisg> Nope, I believe vagrantc, I'm just wondering
| |
| 15:37 | <nivelpp> alkisg: ok
| |
| 15:38 | is there any way to speed up ssh encrypted connection ?
| |
| 15:38 | <alkisg> nivelpp: how fast are your clients?
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| 15:38 | <johnny> patch in the null cypher
| |
| 15:38 | and use that
| |
| 15:38 | of course it won't really be encrypted
| |
| 15:38 | but it will work through the nat
| |
| 15:39 | <nivelpp> alkisg: i am testing it on dual core amd laptop 2,2ghz ... and 4 gb ram
| |
| 15:40 | <alkisg> I see... is there much latency between the client and the server?
| |
| 15:40 | <nivelpp> johnny: can you explain this more detailed ?
| |
| 15:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: LDM_DIRECTX works by setting the DISPLAY variable to the ip address of the thin-client. with NAT in the way, there's no route back to the thin-client.
| |
| 15:40 | <alkisg> vagrantc: thanks :)
| |
| 15:41 | <nivelpp> alkisg: <1ms
| |
| 15:41 | <vagrantc> you could set ip routing, but at that point, there's not really any point to the NAT
| |
| 15:41 | * alkisg wonders why is this slow, then.... | |
| 15:41 | <vagrantc> so switch from NAT to a regular routed network.
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| 15:45 | <nivelpp> vagrantc: i must say it to head admin of the network , but he is not intrested in ltsp ...
| |
| 15:45 | but i will try
| |
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| 15:50 | <johnny> nicros, not really.. i've never done it before
| |
| 15:51 | err
| |
| 15:51 | nivelpp, not really
| |
| 15:51 | i just heard somebody mention it
| |
| 15:51 | i don't think ssh ships with it by default
| |
| 15:51 | but it would solve that nat problem
| |
| 15:52 | <alkisg> More info for the none cipher in ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/54180
| |
| 15:52 | <johnny> i think it would basically turn ssh into telnet :)
| |
| 15:53 | <nivelpp> johnny: it sound good :)
| |
| 15:53 | <vagrantc> a much more capable telnet
| |
| 15:53 | <alkisg> I really wish they had it there, I hate to install rsync on my wife's laptop just to transfer a DVD... :-/
| |
| 15:54 | <johnny> perhaps would be good for you to setup your own ppa with it then alkisg
| |
| 15:55 | <alkisg> johnny: I also hate the overhead of having to check, reapply and possibly modify the patch in every ssh version :(
| |
| 15:55 | <johnny> well.. if the patches use a sane naming scheme
| |
| 15:55 | then that woudn't be a problem now would it..
| |
| 15:55 | <sbalneav> Why use the "None" cipher as opposed to using LDM_DIRECTX?
| |
| 15:56 | <johnny> sbalneav, to get around a nat
| |
| 15:57 | <sbalneav> Ah, so nothing to do with LTSP then.
| |
| 15:57 | <johnny> huh?
| |
| 15:57 | yes.. it does..
| |
| 15:57 | <alkisg> johnny: the patch is 50kb... I don't think it's trivial :-/
| |
| 15:57 | <johnny> it's just ssh around
| |
| 15:57 | err it's just a way to pass through a natted network to get to ltsp app server sbalneav
| |
| 15:57 | <sbalneav> Why would you have a NAT in-between the servers and the thin clients?
| |
| 15:57 | <johnny> alkisg, but you could script it
| |
| 15:58 | sbalneav, that's just the way it is :)
| |
| 15:58 | <sbalneav> Then why not simply set up an OpenVPN connection, then?
| |
| 15:59 | Anywho, the "None" cipher isn't included in openssh anymore anyway, and I doubt you'll get any distro accepting a patch to put it back in.
| |
| 16:04 | <nivelpp> sbalneav: tahnks :)
| |
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| 16:07 | <nivelpp> has opensshserver some speeder encryption methods ? (except none :) )
| |
| 16:07 | <johnny> there wasa recommendation at the top of the bug post
| |
| 16:08 | <sbalneav> blowfish is the "cheapest" isnt it?
| |
| 16:09 | <alkisg> arcfour256 108 MB/s blowfish-cbc 75.0 MB/s
| |
| 16:09 | <sbalneav> There you got
| |
| 16:09 | go, sorry. Arcfour
| |
| 16:09 | <alkisg> From https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openssh/+bug/54180/comments/6
| |
| 16:10 | <sbalneav> I already tried to get the none cipher back in. I was told "no way no how"
| |
| 16:11 | This was back in the days when the code was actually still IN ssh, it just was #ifdef'd or ./configure'd out.
| |
| 16:12 | Now that they've actually hacked the code out... For. Get. It.
| |
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| 16:19 | <nivelpp> tanks booys , i am going sleep now :)
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| 16:19 | nivelpp has left #ltsp | |
| 16:21 | * vagrantc figured out why the keyboard/mouse was broken in squeeze: dbus and hal init scripts weren't whitelisted. | |
| 16:21 | * vagrantc is getting weary of keeping track of these whitelists... | |
| 16:22 | <vagrantc> i should do some testing to see how evil it would be to ditch them entirely
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| 16:22 | <sbalneav> Testing? For evil?
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| 16:22 | One never tests for evil...
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| 16:23 | One merely... embraces it.
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| 16:23 | if evil:
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| 16:23 | do_stuff ()
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| 16:23 | Okiedoke. Packin' up for the weekend.
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| 16:23 | I'm outta here.
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| 16:24 | Have fun, youse alls.
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| 16:31 | <johnny> vagrantc, focus on blacklists ? :)
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| 16:43 | <johnny> well at least hal is disappearing..
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| 16:47 | <vagrantc_> johnny: well, in the spirit of ltsp5, i'd like not to special-case ltsp. whitelisting or blacklisting certain init scripts makes ltsp a special environment, rather than just a particular install of distro FOO
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc_> it made a big speed difference early on, but it doesn't seem to be as much the case anymore.
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| 21:01 | <jammcq> hello all
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