IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 April 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:01 | <johnny> warren, are you about?
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| 01:44 | <justme____> anyone know why on a fresh install of 8.04 alternate LTSP, that I can't run any applications in the gui as the main user added during installation?
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| 02:46 | <Q-FUNK> ahoi!
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| 03:23 | <Q-FUNK> hm
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| 05:28 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: ?
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| 06:44 | <Q-FUNK> anybody up for a small backporting challenge?
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| 06:46 | I'm trying to backport the -geode libDDC patch to -amd 2.7.7.7. the part for the LX almost applies as-is, but the part for the GX would require cherrypicking more recent commits for extra GX fixes, before the patch applies.
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| 06:53 | <Q-FUNK> http://q-funk.iki.fi/debian/pool/x/xserver-xorg-video-geode/geode_libddc.patch
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| 06:53 | http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2008/04/12/debian/pool/main/x/xserver-xorg-video-amd/xserver-xorg-video-amd_2.7.7.7-1.dsc
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| 08:55 | <petre> morning all
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| 08:55 | <eharrison> good morning
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| 08:56 | <warren> hey
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| 08:56 | any topics anyone want to talk about today?
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| 08:56 | Only thing to report (beyond what's already in rawhide) is ogra/vagrant added code to ltspfs upstream yesterday to allow it work in LDM_DIRECTX mode
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| 08:57 | now... I still haven't managed to get it to work on fedora
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| 08:57 | we're missing something else
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| 08:57 | but I'll push ltspfs-0.5.1 anyway
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| 08:57 | <petre> warren, any issues with encrypted file systems & ltsp on f9?
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| 08:57 | <warren> petre: what is encrypted?
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| 08:58 | <petre> I'm starting a f9 install to try out ltsp5 on; one option, set by default, is encrypted file system
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| 08:58 | <warren> yeah, that one wont bother ltsp
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| 08:58 | <petre> server's fs
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| 08:58 | k
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| 08:58 | <warren> that only makes sense on a laptop though
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| 08:59 | if you're doing a permanent server don't encrypt it
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| 08:59 | you need to type the passphrase in every time it boots
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| 08:59 | <eharrison> I cut my work terminal over to F9/LTSP5. I now have an incentive to work on ltspfs ;-)
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| 08:59 | <petre> that was my thought, but I'm thinking about it in terms of 'simple installation procedure for not-very-technical folks
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| 09:00 | but if it's the default in f9, then people will be running into it
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| 09:00 | if it's not a problem on the server, then it doesn't matter
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| 09:00 | ltsp-wise, that is
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| 09:01 | <warren> it isn't a problem in runtime
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| 09:01 | but people might find it annoying that they have to type hte passphrase in MANUALLY at every boot
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| 09:01 | <petre> right, but that's a fedora issue not an ltsp issue
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| 09:02 | while I might/would argue it should be off by default, that's a discussion for another #channel
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| 09:05 | <warren> after we enable nbd boot, we could even make the root filesystem over the network be encrypted
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| 09:05 | although maybe that's pointless
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| 09:06 | <petre> would that increase the load on the client?
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| 09:06 | <warren> yes
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| 09:06 | and you still don't have a protected kernel/initrd
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| 09:06 | so it is pointless
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| 09:07 | petre: do you have wiki edit access?
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| 09:07 | <petre> yes
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| 09:07 | which I've put to massive use making two minor edits in the past week (sigh)
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| 09:07 | <warren> any other topics people want to talk about?
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| 09:07 | otherwise we can finish
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| 09:08 | <eharrison> Nothing more than grunt work... my test production server is running well
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| 09:11 | <warren> OK, we're done then. I'll post notes and upgrade ltspfs in F-9
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| 09:11 | eharrison: you running with LDM_DIRECTX or no?
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| 09:11 | <eharrison> currently no.
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| 09:12 | <warren> does everyone want to keep this meeting time?
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| 09:13 | the person who chose this meeting time never comes anymore =)
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| 09:13 | I'm OK either this time or an hour later
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| 09:13 | * petre likes it | |
| 09:13 | <eharrison> the person who chose this meeting time is not a morning person ;-)
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| 09:14 | * eharrison is ok with this time, but an hour later would be nice | |
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| 09:15 | <petre> what does the DIRECTX in LDM_DIRECTX mean?
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| 09:16 | <eharrison> warren: LDM_DIRECTX appears to be working fine here
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| 09:16 | <warren> eharrison: with ltspfs?
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| 09:17 | eharrison: petre: how about a compromise, 30 minutes later
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| 09:17 | <petre> okay by me
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| 09:17 | <warren> eharrison: so 10:30AM eastern, 7:30AM pacific
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| 09:17 | <eharrison> I have not gotten that far. I left my usb key @ work, I'm looking for another one
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| 09:18 | okay, 7:30am pacific it is
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| 09:18 | <warren> ok
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| 09:18 | hmm
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| 09:18 | I can't build the newer ltspfs yet.
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| 09:18 | down for maintenance
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| 09:19 | <petre> grrr, f9 install failed, same place as on dedicated server
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| 09:20 | <warren> ?
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| 09:22 | <eharrison> warren: can you post your ltspfs src.rpm somewhere I can fetch it?
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| 09:23 | <warren> I didn't make a 0.5.1 yet
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| 09:23 | i'll do it now
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| 09:25 | <petre> warren, I'm planning to do repeated installs of ltsp as part of working on ltsp-server-initialize;
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| 09:25 | <warren> petre: there might be a faster way, like using virtual machines
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| 09:26 | <petre> does it matter whether I'm working on f9 or f8, as I can't seem to get f9 installed anywhere
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| 09:26 | <warren> snap and go back to the point immediately before you ran ltsp-server-initialize
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| 09:26 | petre: what are your F9 install error messages?
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| 09:26 | <petre> I'm using vm's now
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| 09:26 | <warren> we need to know exactly how it is failing
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| 09:26 | whta kind of vm?
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| 09:26 | <petre> I *knew* you were going to ask that
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| 09:26 | vmware
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| 09:27 | It fails at some japanese library, but I hit the wrong key before I could write it down
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| 09:27 | failed in the same place on my AMD64 server, though, too
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| 09:28 | <warren> are you using the preview release?
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| 09:28 | which installer exactly are you usinG?
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| 09:28 | <petre> I think so...not quite sure; where do I look?
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| 09:28 | <warren> what did you download and when?
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| 09:29 | <petre> I downloaded a DVD iso about a month ago
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| 09:30 | <warren> you have something extremely old then
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| 09:32 | <petre> that would be a good thing, as hopefully newer would avoid the problem.
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| 09:32 | <warren> http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/
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| 09:32 | <petre> I'll go get something new now
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| 09:32 | <warren> looks like the only way to download the PR is torrent at the moment
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| 09:33 | <petre> torrent is fine
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| 09:39 | <petre> downloading now, only ~7 hours to go (sigh)
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| 09:39 | * petre is tempted by Comcast's 50Mb download offer | |
| 09:40 | <warren> speak of the devil
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| 09:40 | =)
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| 09:40 | <petre> warren, so is there value in testing on f8?
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| 09:40 | <warren> petre: a lot less
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| 09:40 | <petre> that is, should I bother, or just wait until I've got a working f9
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| 09:40 | <warren> petre: F8 will never have full LTSP support because we can't ship in in F8
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| 09:41 | I'll be backporting everything to F8
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| 09:41 | and RHEL5 later
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| 09:41 | but F9 is the focus
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| 09:42 | <eharrison> hi dan
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| 09:43 | <dan_young> hey, miss anything interesting?
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| 09:44 | <eharrison> we'll start at 7:30am next week ;-)
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| 09:45 | <dan_young> OK by me! ;-)
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| 09:51 | <warren> eharrison: http://people.redhat.com/wtogami/temp/ltspfs-0.5.1-0.fc9.src.rpm
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| 09:51 | i'll post the notes to the wiki
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| 09:54 | <eharrison> warren: looks like something is eating the "LTSPFS_TOKEN", all of the other debugging steps are working fine. I'll give the new package a spin and see if it magically fixes it ;-)
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| 09:54 | <warren> eharrison: with LDM_DIRECTX or not?
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| 09:54 | <eharrison> either way.
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| 09:54 | <warren> eharrison: 0.5.1 is specifically to make it work with LDM_DIRECTX
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| 09:54 | ooh
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| 09:55 | <eharrison> so far, ltspfs has not been working for me at all
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| 10:05 | <petre> ogra, ping
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| 10:34 | <Q-FUNK> warren: what does your symbolic link look like in -geode?
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| 10:34 | relative path or absolute path?
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| 10:42 | <eharrison> Q-FUNK: I assume you mean amd_drv.so -> geode_drv.so? If so, it is relative.
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| 10:43 | <warren> Q-FUNK: relative
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| 10:43 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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| 10:44 | we must have something different in the ubuntu X, because that fails
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| 10:45 | <warren> what is it?
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| 10:45 | <eharrison> warren: for ltspfs, we are missing a dependency on xorg-x11-utils
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| 10:46 | <warren> eharrison: within the client chroot?
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| 10:46 | eharrison: or the server side?
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| 10:46 | <eharrison> client-side chroot
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| 10:46 | <warren> eharrison: is that the only thing we're missing?
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| 10:46 | <eharrison> to be determined. Still not working here, but that may very well be my fault ;-)
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| 10:49 | warren: everything is working except having the icon appear on my desktop. It is indeed automagically mounting on the server side
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| 10:50 | <warren> eharrison: perhaps vagrantc/ogra know more about how that's supposed to work?
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| 10:51 | https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/Meetings
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| 10:51 | <vagrantc> eharrison: up for another ltsp hackfest before and/or after oscon in june?
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| 10:51 | <warren> go ahead and put more details on this page if you find them today
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| 10:52 | I have to drive, will be back online in 20-30 minutes
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| 10:53 | <eharrison> vagrantc: yes, I'm sure a hackfest will happen. Jim, Scott, Warren, & probably others will be in town.
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> oops. july
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| 10:54 | <warren> be back in about 30
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| 10:54 | <vagrantc> eharrison: yeah, that's why i figured i'd try and get some ltsp action going on
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| 11:11 | <eharrison> vagrantc: in ltspfs (0.5.1), where is the magic that puts the icon on a user's desktop? I see the example for kde, but I don't see how it is supposed to work under gnome
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| 11:11 | <vagrantc> eharrison: "just works" for GNOME, in my experience.
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| 11:12 | <eharrison> okay, back to the code I go ;-)
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| 11:14 | <vagrantc> eharrison: is it mounting in /media/USERNAME/DEVICENAME ?
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| 11:14 | eharrison: or /tmp/.USERNAME-ltspfs/DEVICENAME ?
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| 11:15 | <eharrison> /tmp/.USERNAME-ltspfs/DEVICENAME
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| 11:16 | <vagrantc> eharrison: is /usr/bin/lbmount setuid root ?
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| 11:17 | <eharrison> vagrantc: it was not. giving that a spin...
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| 11:17 | that was it, thanks ;-)
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| 11:18 | <vagrantc> ta-da!
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| 11:19 | i just put in the room use request at freegeek for both the weekend before and after oscon.
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| 11:20 | <johnny> hi folks
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| 11:28 | <vagrantc> johnny: no way you can make the time to come out to portland in july?
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| 11:29 | <johnny> time is not problem, money is
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| 11:31 | at least for now
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| 11:31 | i may end up with a "real" job and have money by then
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| 11:32 | so my smoketest was almost a success, i am happy .. just need to get a fix or two into the chroot generator
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| 11:36 | <Q-FUNK> ah. is root explicitely disabled in hardy? I created a passowrd, but then when trying to login on console, I get the "password expired. contact admin" message.
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| 11:36 | (inside the chroot)
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> Q-FUNK: i've seen similar issues on debian sid ... i've played with chage to work around it
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| 11:48 | <Q-FUNK> Account expires : Jan 02, 1970
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| 11:48 | ??
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| 11:49 | <vagrantc> yeah.
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| 11:49 | :)
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| 12:10 | <cliebow> btw:HowdY Eric!
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| 12:11 | <eharrison> hi Chuck!
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| 12:11 | <cliebow> sounds like you have a handle on the ltsp5..
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| 12:12 | <eharrison> yeah, slowly but surely ;-)
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| 15:47 | <warren> [warren@newcaprica ltspfs-test]$ automake
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| 15:47 | src/Makefile.am:8: compiling `cdpinger.c' with per-target flags requires `AM_PROG_CC_C_O' in `configure.ac'
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| 15:47 | Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
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| 15:47 | hmm
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| 15:47 | where is the name "ChangeLog" coming from
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| 15:48 | <Q-FUNK> *sigh* this -geode issue in Hardy is really killing me.
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| 15:49 | <warren> Q-FUNK: ?
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| 15:50 | <johnny> warren, i had that issue too
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| 15:50 | i have no idea what is requiring it
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| 15:50 | i ended up just touching a ChangeLog file
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| 15:51 | <warren> johnny: it is a hard coded name in automake itself =(
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| 15:52 | so the `AM_PROG_CC_C_O' issue is not fatal?
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| 15:52 | <johnny> no
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| 15:52 | touch ChangeLog and all is well
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| 15:52 | pretty sure i got that one..
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| 15:53 | <jammcq> hey all
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| 15:53 | <johnny> wtf is that hardcoded on automake
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| 15:54 | <warren> johnny: it is a GNU standard apparently
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| 15:54 | we didn't have this problem earlier because ltspfs had a blank ChangeLog file
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| 15:58 | <Q-FUNK> warren: either the symlink is not doing its thing or X core misses some bits to even try the geode driver
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| 15:58 | warren: but of course Hardy comes with X 1.4, not 1.5 so misisng bits would not be entirely surprising
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| 16:00 | still, all this mess might mean that Hardy will have to be force-downgraded to -amd 2.7.7.7
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| 16:00 | (or preferably my own 2.7.7.8, which has leio's backport of the libDDC patch needed by Koolu and other poor sods using the ION 603)
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| 16:17 | <johnny> warren, i imagine the gnu standard will change now they are going with bzr :)
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| 16:21 | <warren> johnny: Changelog vs ChangeLog has nothing to do with bzr
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| 16:21 | johnny: Changelog is what I had hard-coded into mkdst
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| 16:21 | yeah, ltsp-trunk already uses ChangeLog
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| 16:22 | ldm-trunk as well
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| 16:22 | this is a bug in mkdst
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| 16:22 | sigh
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| 16:22 | <leio> I don't think the xorg-server bits matter, if Hardys server doesn't even have -amd detection. Something else is doing the detection, maybe ltsp?
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| 16:23 | <warren> Q-FUNK: xorg server has a hard coded list of pci ids to driver name if xorg.conf doesn't exist.
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| 16:23 | <johnny> oh.. i see
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| 16:23 | <Q-FUNK> warren: xf86AutoConfig ?
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| 16:23 | <warren> Q-FUNK: /hw/xfree86/common/xf86AutoConfig.c
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| 16:23 | yeah
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| 16:23 | <Q-FUNK> I patched that
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| 16:23 | <warren> X.org 1.5 upstream has the pciid for LX but not GX
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| 16:24 | Q-FUNK: what did you change/add?
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| 16:24 | <Q-FUNK> added the amd line from git
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| 16:24 | http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13589055/171_xf86AutoConfig_geode_addition.diff
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| 16:24 | 1.4 lacks it
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| 16:25 | <johnny> warren, so.. are you making tarballs?
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| 16:25 | <warren> note that will work with only LX
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| 16:25 | right?
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| 16:25 | <johnny> or just rpm?
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| 16:25 | <warren> johnny: rpm needs the tarballs
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| 16:26 | <johnny> where are they?
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| 16:26 | <warren> johnny: I'm generating tarballs as needed using mkdst --from-tag=NAME-VERSION
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| 16:26 | <Q-FUNK> warren: noted but nobody provided the one for GX, so far
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| 16:26 | <johnny> but are you hosting them?
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| 16:26 | <warren> Q-FUNK: I tried to get the one for GX added into xorg-server but it was rejected
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| 16:26 | <Q-FUNK> warren: are those taken from PCI id numbers or something?
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| 16:26 | <warren> Q-FUNK: because it is the same as NSC
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| 16:26 | Q-FUNK: yes
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| 16:27 | Q-FUNK: upstream wont accept the GX one until the geode driver supports nsc and cyrix.
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| 16:27 | <Q-FUNK> warren: then it should be adifferent one
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| 16:27 | GX != GX1
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| 16:27 | <warren> AMD Geode GX2 is the same pciid as NSC I tihnk
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| 16:27 | <Q-FUNK> is it?
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| 16:27 | <warren> yes
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| 16:27 | look in hwdata, you'll see it in the table
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| 16:27 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi would know. he has a few of each.
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| 16:27 | ok
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| 16:28 | <warren> I fought to get GX2 added to xf86AutoConfig.c
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| 16:28 | but they said no
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| 16:28 | <Q-FUNK> oh well
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| 16:28 | <warren> despite NSC and cyrix being less common than GX2
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| 16:28 | <Q-FUNK> silly, though, since nsc and cyrix currently don't build due to lacking pciaccess support and other things
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| 16:29 | <warren> yeah
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| 16:29 | no point in fixing those old drivers
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| 16:29 | <Q-FUNK> no, NSC is extremely common
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| 16:29 | <warren> oh?
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| 16:29 | OK, then good thing to not break it
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| 16:29 | ajax refused adding GX2 because it would prevent NSC from falling back to vesa.
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| 16:29 | <Q-FUNK> soekeris boards and loads of other stuff was built with the Geode SC which is essentially a GX1 + CS5530a in a single chip
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| 16:30 | those became available just before NSC's Geode team was bought by AMD
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| 16:31 | so they are marked as NSC but were mostly commercialized by AMD
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| 16:32 | e.g. our own dbe60 used an sc2200.
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| 16:32 | <warren> GX2 is still marked NSC in the pci I think
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| 16:32 | <Q-FUNK> yes, because it is their design
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| 16:32 | <leio> warren: the thing is, that LX works without anything in xf86AutoConfig.c per Q-FUNK. So something else seems to do the detection
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| 16:32 | <warren> anyway, only way we'll fix this is by integrating NSC/cyrix into geode
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| 16:32 | <Q-FUNK> which, to complicate things, AMD's marketing droids renamed GX after they bougt the line from NSC
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| 16:33 | <leio> and fixing it for GX is not the issue here currnetly
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| 16:33 | <warren> If you run X without xorg.conf then it picks a driver with xf86AutoConfig.c
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| 16:33 | Fedora doesn't attempt to configure xorg.conf
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| 16:33 | I don't know if Ubuntu tries
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| 16:33 | <Q-FUNK> leio: but only in LTSP. as standalone, X won't find it unless I tip it in xorg.conf that "amd" or "geode" is the driver to use. then it picks it up just fine
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| 16:34 | <warren> are you sure it isn't trying to run something else to configure X?
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| 16:34 | <Q-FUNK> I'm wondering if LTPS might be doing its own parsing of lspci and other hwdata source
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| 16:34 | <leio> Q-FUNK: right, so for non-LTSP usage you need that patch added to xf86AutoConfig.c, but apparently with LTSP it used to work fine without, so something has the binding to amd driver done other than AutoConfig.c
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| 16:35 | <Q-FUNK> yup. it feels that way
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| 16:35 | something in LTSP knows about our PCI ID
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| 16:35 | <warren> It depends if the way ltsp is packaged in Ubuntu is attempting to configure_x or not.
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| 16:35 | Fedora never tries it
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| 16:35 | Ubuntu might be doing it
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| 16:35 | LTSP source has no pci tables in it
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| 16:35 | <Q-FUNK> I think thta starting with this release, it relies on DDC and PCI ID
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| 16:35 | <leio> Q-FUNK: if you run standalone, it doesn't find the driver right? What if you patch "amd" into xf86AutoConfig.c but have geode driver?
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| 16:36 | <Q-FUNK> leio, I could try. lemme see.
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| 16:36 | <warren> running just "X"
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| 16:36 | with no xorg.conf
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| 16:37 | if boolean_is_true "$CONFIGURE_X" ; then
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| 16:37 | ${CONFIGURE_X_COMMAND:-/usr/share/ltsp/configure-x.sh}
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| 16:37 | fi
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| 16:37 | <leio> Q-FUNK: or actually, what if just even claim "amd" in xorg.conf but have geode driver - does it pick up the symlink and work? Cause if it does then if something else is doing the detection it should be detecting "amd" but work with geode driver fine
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| 16:37 | <warren> amd and geode are working interchangably here
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| 16:38 | if [ -z "$CONFIGURE_X" ] && [ -x /usr/bin/X ] && [ -z "$X_CONF" ]; then
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| 16:38 | export CONFIGURE_X=True
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| 16:38 | fi
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| 16:38 | looks like ltsp_config runs this by default
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| 16:38 | it tries to run /usr/share/ltsp/configure-x.sh
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| 16:38 | * warren has to rip that out | |
| 16:39 | <warren> ah, it hasn't been working on fedora since it can't write the xorg.conf output file
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| 16:39 | and configure-x.sh tries to read a bunch of debian specific config files
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| 16:40 | Q-FUNK: configure_x.sh
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| 16:40 | LANG=C Xorg -configure -novtswitch :1 > ${TEMPFILE} 2>&1
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| 16:40 | it starts with the output of that attempting to configure X before it runs it.
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| 16:40 | Q-FUNK: you might try disabling this script and seeing if it helps
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| 16:41 | * warren driving | |
| 16:45 | <johnny> warren, that script doesn't work for me at all
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| 16:46 | i put CONFIGURE_X=F in my ltsp-setup
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| 16:49 | <Q-FUNK> moving xorg.conf away or telling xorg.conf to use amd fails on a standalone host.
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| 16:51 | but telling xorg.conf to use geode works.
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| 16:51 | leio: so it seems that the symbolic link doesn't do its trick.
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| 16:52 | that's on the turkish recipe.
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| 16:59 | weird how neither the symlink or the magic patch work
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| 17:00 | I probably missed that simply because I've always used an xorg.conf on workstations, to make sure I would get the right default keyboard map and bit depth.
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| 17:01 | and on LTSP, using -amd, it just works. it fails now for the first time.
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| 17:15 | hm. even with the magic number patch, it fails to find -amd
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| 17:16 | so now, whether I use -amd or -geode, they still need to be specified in xorg.conf
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| 17:17 | except in LTSP/Hardy, where -amd just magically works and -geode simply won't.
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| 18:56 | <warren> sounds like a bug specific to ubuntu then
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| 18:56 | X on F9 is using geode or amd
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| 20:39 | <hari_> does anyone know how to install ltsp5 in ubuntu without $ sudo ltsp-build-client , cause it needs internet connection. thx
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