IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 October 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <nubae> yes there are different types i know
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| 00:00 | Im trying to establish that we mean the same things when we are communicatings
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| 00:00 | <johnny> do i need to draw a table?
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| 00:00 | <nubae> ie.-- when I say dbus proxy to write a message on someone else's computer
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| 00:01 | I'm talking about using a method that does that
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| 00:01 | <Bart__> ok I'll backup, if I backup, I just need to backup the chroot environment right?
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| 00:01 | /opt/ltsp/amd64, i386, what have you, right?
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| 00:01 | <nubae> Bart__, usually
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| 00:01 | <Bart__> I'm using Jaunty 9.04
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| 00:02 | <nubae> johnny, I'm writing this as much for me as for u.... to make sure I understand it all properly
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| 00:02 | <Bart__> Ok I'll take that as a yes
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| 00:04 | <nubae> I mean... the gnome desktop is slowly beginning to telepathize all its apps
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| 00:04 | <johnny> nubae: basically.. i want the user login to be presented with a dbus tree.. that contains some combinations of methods and signals from both the server and the client
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| 00:04 | <nubae> as much as people hate it
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| 00:04 | <johnny> uggh..
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| 00:04 | <nubae> yeah well its happening
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| 00:04 | <johnny> no.. i mean uggh.. i don't know why you're talking about it
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| 00:04 | not the telpathizing of apps
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| 00:05 | i don't see it in context to what i was trying to beg for your help with
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| 00:05 | <nubae> o
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| 00:05 | <johnny> i don't care how you implement it
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| 00:05 | <nubae> i dont get one part
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| 00:05 | the user login presented with a dbys tree
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| 00:05 | <johnny> yes..
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| 00:06 | with either more or less methods
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| 00:06 | <nubae> u're describing dfeet to me
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| 00:06 | <johnny> no.. i am describing what you would see in d-feet
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| 00:07 | if you looked in d-feet, you would see a mixture of interfaces from both the thin client hardware
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| 00:07 | <nubae> ok am havinf difficulty seeing the difference between those 2 things, but never mind
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| 00:07 | <johnny> and the server hadware
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| 00:07 | <nubae> yeah
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| 00:07 | <johnny> so.. org.freedesktop.DeviceKit.Disks for example
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| 00:07 | would be populated with inforamtion that was mixed in
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| 00:07 | <nubae> so basically, u are saying lets dtube dfeet
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| 00:07 | ok
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| 00:08 | <johnny> no..
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| 00:08 | :(
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| 00:08 | <nubae> but of course
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| 00:08 | look...
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| 00:08 | <johnny> i'm talking about the entire tree
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| 00:08 | being fake
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| 00:08 | <nubae> me to
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| 00:08 | <johnny> err
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| 00:08 | not being orignal
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| 00:08 | <nubae> huh?=
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| 00:09 | hang on step back and letme explain what I see as a collaborative dfeet
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| 00:09 | <johnny> that's not what i want!
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| 00:10 | <nubae> the user launches the app... is presented with session bus or sysem bus, or specialised bus
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| 00:10 | <Bart__> Ok bye everyone, thanks for all your efforts!
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| 00:10 | <nubae> there is a big button that says share dfeet
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| 00:10 | <johnny> :(
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| 00:10 | <nubae> when that is clicked, the connection manager pops up
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| 00:11 | and asks who to share with (multiples possible)
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| 00:11 | <johnny> no!
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| 00:11 | <nubae> please let me finisih
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| 00:11 | | |
| 00:11 | :-)
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| 00:11 | <johnny> but it isn't at all what i want
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| 00:11 | you still aren't' understanding what i'm asking for..
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| 00:12 | <nubae> ah I thought we were in a democracy
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| 00:12 | <johnny> i'm not sure how else to explain ti
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| 00:12 | we are a democracy
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| 00:12 | but i was trying to beg for your help in solving a specific problem
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| 00:12 | and you don't seem to be understanding that specific problem
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| 00:12 | <nubae> ok, and I am trying to explain how CURRENTLY
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| 00:12 | collaboration works
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| 00:12 | in general
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| 00:12 | so u have a starting poin
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| 00:13 | point
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| 00:13 | well so i have a starting point too
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| 00:13 | unless u know all this already
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| 00:13 | and I'm not mentioning anything new
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| 00:14 | <johnny> let me ask you one thing thing.. can you restate in your own words what i want?
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| 00:15 | <nubae> u want to be able to remotely control sessions
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| 00:15 | <johnny> uhm..
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| 00:16 | <nubae> and device connections
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| 00:16 | <johnny> what does remotely controlled mean to you?
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| 00:17 | <nubae> it means doing it over a network I gues
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| 00:17 | thats a hard question
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| 00:17 | <johnny> i would say more specifically.. this is what i wanted
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| 00:18 | i want for the user to be able to have better control of all existing hardware both local in the thin client and what is on their remote session
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| 00:18 | to me..
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| 00:19 | the best way to accomplish that, would be to have ther user be presented with the environment as it is known to dbus at the time
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| 00:19 | <nubae> ok.... but why do u need all that?
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| 00:19 | <johnny> be a mixture of interfaces from bot the client, and the server
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| 00:20 | so.. if i plug a usb drive into a thin client
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| 00:20 | i should see a notification of it
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| 00:20 | in the remote sessions devicekit.disks signals
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| 00:21 | or rather.. those signals listeners..
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| 00:21 | which would be teh gnome session
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| 00:21 | and.. so when i use a method of device.kit disk on that specific disk.. it dispatches back to the client
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| 00:22 | we'll be rerouting those messages to either the client or server basedon the policy
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| 00:22 | <nubae> ok this is low level pretty easy stuff
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| 00:22 | I mean... u can just tail dbus
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| 00:22 | <johnny> seriously?
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| 00:22 | lol
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| 00:22 | how about we do it the right way..
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| 00:23 | tailing dbus won't actually help
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| 00:23 | <nubae> Im still unsure what the point of the app is
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| 00:23 | what is its end use
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| 00:23 | cuase if its just another debugger
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| 00:23 | <johnny> so the user can burn cds
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| 00:23 | <nubae> not that interested
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| 00:23 | <johnny> or use a scanner properly
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| 00:24 | or format their usb sticks
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| 00:24 | sounds like all good end user stuff to me
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| 00:24 | <nubae> fine, but then we dont need a tree view of the dbus session and system buses
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| 00:24 | <johnny> no.. we don't.. tht was never the point.. i was just trying to show you an example of wht i would see in there
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| 00:24 | it wasn't the end point at all.. just a side effect..
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| 00:25 | or example
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| 00:26 | <nubae> ok, well.... let me tell u what I envision
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| 00:26 | just let me talk for a moment
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| 00:27 | <johnny> to solve the specific problem of merging the system dbus with the session dbus of both client and server in which the exposed signals/methods are mapped back to to the right computer ?
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| 00:28 | <nubae> I like what u are mentioning, its great, I think its like their terminal manager (we loose the term thin client ior fat client or whatever)
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| 00:28 | now
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| 00:29 | I imagine a user being greeted with a "what is your name?" dialogue the very first time only
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| 00:29 | this process is essential for the imprinting of product with user
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| 00:30 | Like modern msn/google talk stuff, we implement all the fancy XMPP XEPs
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| 00:31 | there are hundreds, from the absurd, to the really cool
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| 00:32 | but we analyse the ones we want that are supported by our xmpp server (ejabberd most likely)
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| 00:32 | so now we have a nice login screen with avatar, message of the day, lattest news maybe even
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| 00:33 | and connections to local moodle/twitter/laconica
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| 00:33 | basically a launchpad of types
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| 00:33 | all this before gnome
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| 00:33 | why u ask?
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| 00:33 | well because kiosks have hundreds of different uses
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| 00:34 | and the more flexibility the better
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| 00:34 | authentication happens with kerberos and ldap, TLS 2, and some ancient archaic SSL 1 running on port 8080
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| 00:35 | Egghead has quit IRC | |
| 00:35 | <nubae> we dont care
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| 00:35 | cause it all just happens low level
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| 00:35 | when the user is logging in, it knows all the data XMPP is capable of kowing about them
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| 00:36 | which is a lot
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| 00:36 | even geolocation
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| 00:36 | anyway, text to speech
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| 00:36 | avatars
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| 00:37 | personalised profiles dependent on time of day and classroom
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| 00:38 | to me telepathy (xmpp) provides a level of AI
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| 00:38 | about the user
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| 00:38 | and...... because of d tubes and streaming tubes
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| 00:38 | AI about the users you know
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| 00:39 | ok... end rant :-)
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| 00:43 | johnny, ?
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| 00:44 | <johnny> yes.. that kind of app is going to happen
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| 00:44 | but that's just not the problem i am trying to solve..
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| 00:45 | <nubae> ok, maybe I just not seeing the problem
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| 00:46 | what stops u opening a dtube to the thin client
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| 00:46 | call it dfeet.jonniesdomain.org
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| 00:47 | create the proxy objects using telepathy python
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| 00:49 | there is a specific interface to call "mission control"
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| 00:49 | let it choose the xmpp server .manager CM
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| 00:50 | then use the tp proxy tube creator
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| 00:51 | now u have a channel which u can use to pass XML back and forth with
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| 00:51 | on the other end
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| 00:52 | u are listening for any clients that announce themselves as d tubes
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| 00:53 | that makes the connection, and now u can also use the required proxy objects
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| 00:55 | there is even a neat little proxy object called groupthink
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| 00:55 | that does a lot of the collab tedious stuff for u
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| 00:56 | used for Sugar, but its telepathy specific so will work in Gnome just fine
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| 00:58 | has that answered anything at all?
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| 01:10 | which problem
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| 01:11 | so what is the problem?
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| 01:31 | <johnny> you're talking about making things for a user.. i'm talking about making things used by other software only
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| 01:39 | <nubae> so mor eoptimisation
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| 01:39 | fine, but then we dont need a tree view of the dbus session and system buses
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| 01:44 | ok, well meaubiu
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| 01:54 | <johnny> THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT
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| 01:55 | only that the dbus tree was populated by methods/signals from both client and server
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| 01:55 | so that the client could do things that work when running locally
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| 01:55 | :(
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| 02:09 | <nubae> ma8eaeeg
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| 02:09 | ooops
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| 02:10 | '
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| 07:32 | <mikkel> Anyone using GMA 950 Intel graphic card, with Fedora 11 LTSP ?, I can't get it run more than 1024x756 ?
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| 09:23 | <zamba> mikkel: try logging in and out again
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| 09:23 | i've had issues like that
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| 09:24 | <mikkel> zamba, Have tried everyting, nothing works.
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| 10:21 | <mikkel> How much of these options works. SCREEN_02=shell don't give me any shell on F2. LDM_DEBUG=True and LDM_SYSLOG=True don't give me anything on the SERVER ?
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| 10:23 | <vagrantc> mikkel: try SCREEN_07=shell
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| 10:23 | mikkel: that should disable ldm ... if it doesn't, it's likely not reading your configuration.
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| 10:24 | i'm not as familiar with LDM_DEBUG and LDM_SYSLOG, but if you want logs to show up on the server you probably need to turn on remote syslogging.
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| 10:25 | <mikkel> vagrantc, It is reading it, when I put something about X it fails. I have edited /etc/rsyslog.conf on the server to accept UDP and TCP requests
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| 10:27 | <vagrantc> you should see your client's boot logs in /var/log/syslog, then...
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| 10:27 | is this on ubuntu?
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| 10:28 | you might try setting SYSLOG=remote, just in case it's disabled by default.
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| 10:44 | <mikkel> vagrantc, It is Fedora 11
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| 10:45 | <vagrantc> fedora's ldm is getting rather out of date...
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| 10:46 | mikkel: i'd file bugs...
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| 10:47 | <mikkel> vagrantc, will do
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| 10:52 | vagrantc, My real problem is to get GMA 950 intel graphic card to work i more than 1024x756. On LTSP homepage this card i said to be very good. But I can't get it to work.
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| 10:55 | <vagrantc> mikkel: can you verify that it works at higher resolution through some other method? i.e. boot to hard disk or CD?
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| 10:56 | try to figure out if it's specific to fedora's ltsp implementation, or fedora's X.org drivers, or just the card itself.
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| 10:56 | possibly also try with different monitors...
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| 10:56 | <mikkel> vagrantc, Will try to boot from at CD
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| 10:57 | <vagrantc> that's about as far as i can be helpful with fedora.
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| 11:01 | <mikkel> vagrantc, Just pluged a digital screen to the thin client and it worked. So It can't run though a analog conveter
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| 13:22 | <cstk421> good afternoon
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| 13:23 | is this a correct channel to discuss endian and pfsense firewalls ?
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| 13:23 | <johnny> no
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| 13:23 | pfsense is a bsd thing ..
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| 13:23 | right?
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| 13:23 | <cstk421> not sure
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| 13:23 | i assumed alll linux distros were close
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| 13:24 | <johnny> bsd isn't a linux distro
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| 13:24 | it is a thing all on its own
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| 13:24 | <cstk421> endian is a linux distro
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| 13:24 | not bsd i got this channel info on the same site where it mensions endian
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| 13:24 | http://lwn.net/Articles/216389/
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| 13:25 | <johnny> that's a totally different article
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| 13:25 | <johnny> the first article is about ltsp, the second is about endian
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| 13:26 | <cstk421> ah well im looking for support on firewalls similar to endian and pfsense. can you direct me to channel ?
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| 13:27 | <johnny> try #endian ?
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| 13:27 | i don't know.. go to their website
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| 13:27 | see if they have a channel listed
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| 13:27 | <cstk421> tried nothing
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| 13:28 | thanks though
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| 13:28 | <johnny> then there might not be one
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| 13:28 | ask on their mailing list
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| 13:28 | <cstk421> whats discussed here?
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| 13:28 | just linux os's?
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| 13:28 | <johnny> linux terminal server
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| 13:28 | <cstk421> ah
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| 13:28 | gotcha
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| 13:28 | gotta find dhcp help
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| 13:28 | thanks
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| 17:47 | <nubae> lo johnny
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| 17:47 | <johnny> hi
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| 17:47 | <nubae> I was just thinking about how to integrate twitter/laconica with xmpp for educational purposes
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| 17:48 | I mean... in the simplest sense, laconica and twitter group according to patterns and themes
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| 17:48 | I include people as a pattern or theme
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| 17:49 | now if u could really get AI profiling based on xmpp and laconica/twitter techno
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| 17:49 | that would be wat neat
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| 17:51 | and the net goes
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| 18:00 | how goes it today
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| 18:01 | did u see my part about putting AI into laconica/twitter via ejabberd
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| 18:02 | well, not just twitter
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| 18:02 | ai in all comms
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| 18:05 | <johnny> nubae, look at the open microblogging spec
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| 18:06 | <nubae> oh wheres tjatP
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| 18:08 | <johnny> xep microblogging
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| 18:08 | search that
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| 18:08 | <nubae> the url ir u might please
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| 18:08 | oh j
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| 18:08 | ok
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| 18:09 | anyway, something I'd like to build, a web based app
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| 18:09 | and tell me if u are interesting because I think u will be
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| 18:09 | basically have u seen orangenet?
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| 18:10 | orangemesh.org
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| 18:11 | anyway, I ripped the code away
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| 18:11 | added the good bits of laconica and twitter
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| 18:13 | and now I want to be able to see if it wold be possible ot stream a ltsp server over this mesh based infrastrsructure
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| 18:15 | wnd from the servers stream clients
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| 18:15 | ie... havea totally self reliant sel f fixing systenm
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| 18:15 | wgere teahers/admins communicate about thie rnotie via tiwtter/laconica
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| 18:16 | u think something like tht could be patentned?
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| 18:21 | <nubae> well. let me document the ideea
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| 18:39 | <johnny> i think think you're attack the problem from the wrong direction
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