IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 14 January 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:32 | <VectorX> trying to do an apt-update on the image in ubuntu and getting "W: GPG error: http://extras.ubuntu.com oneiric Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 16126D3A3E5C1192"
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| 07:32 | whats the fix for that
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| 07:33 | trying to create the key gives "gpg: fatal: can't create directory `/home/ik/.gnupg': No such file or directory"
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| 08:27 | <VectorX> ok got that sorted
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| 08:27 | so im doing this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall but when the client loads there are no apps, just a control bar on the top with file etc
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| 09:31 | <knipwim> hey alkisg. good morning
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> Good morning knipwim
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| 09:31 | <knipwim> i'm working on a more elaborate proposal for the plugin redesign
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> The ltsp-build-client plugin, or the ltsp-chroot plugin?
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| 09:31 | <knipwim> ltsp-build-client plugin
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| 09:31 | the function based stuff
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| 09:32 | the one we talked about earlier
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> Keep in mind that we want to strip much of that and put it in the early boot stages
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| 09:32 | E.g. in the initramfs
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| 09:32 | I'm not sure if the function based method will suit ltsp-build-client... will it?
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| 09:33 | knipwim: have you heard about the "bootable chroot" goal, where we move stuff to the early boot stages?
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| 09:33 | <knipwim> yes
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> OK
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| 09:33 | <knipwim> although i'm not sure have to implement it for gentoo yet
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| 09:33 | but i like the idea
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| 09:34 | still, some ltsp-build-client stuff will remain i guess
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> Yes, for those that want a directory-based chroot
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| 09:34 | E.g. I think I won't be using it in the future, but I'll be using vbox to install a normal ubuntu installation as the ltsp chroot
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| 09:35 | But sure e.g. for thin chroots, ltsp-build-client is still ideal
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| 09:35 | Anyway, what did you have in mind?
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| 09:36 | <knipwim> i was wondering to put the proposal on the dev mailing list
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| 09:36 | or put it in one of those public pads
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| 09:36 | and refer from the mailing list
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> Do you have something written already?
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| 09:36 | <knipwim> about halfway there
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> Can I have a look?
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| 09:36 | <knipwim> still have to think of some migration steps
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| 09:39 | http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/eeM3b5X9OJ
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> knipwim: how about a compromise? Instead of redesigning from scratch, to expand "ltsp-common-functions" into a library
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| 09:45 | The common code would be written there, and the functions would be overriden by distro-specific scripts
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| 09:45 | E.g. in ltsp-common-functions, we'd have:
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| 09:46 | get_package_version()
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| 09:46 | { die "Your distro doesn't implement this function" }
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| 09:46 | In common-functions.d/Ubuntu, we'd have:
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| 09:46 | get_package_version()
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| 09:46 | { dpkg-query etc }
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| 09:47 | And ltsp-common-functions, in its end, would source all distro specific scripts so that the overrides take effect
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| 09:47 | ...then, slowly, we'd rewrite whatever we can from ltsp-chroot, ltsp-info, ltsp-build-client to take advantage of that common "shell library"
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| 09:47 | I think this way the migration will be painles...
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| 09:48 | ...because ltsp-build-client is too big to change in one step
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| 09:49 | <knipwim> migration is an issue i agree
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| 09:49 | but would you want all common code for all commands in ltsp-common-functions?
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> Why not?
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| 09:50 | Wait, not all common code
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| 09:50 | E.g. if some initscripts want to do something in a portable way, they can use that "shell library"
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| 09:50 | They don't have to be "in" the library, they'd just use it
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> If you even read about javascript libraries, which are supposed to take away the burden of browser-specific-details from the programmer, I'm talking about something like this, but for shell
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| 09:52 | *ever
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| 09:52 | I'm not talking about stripping the code of initscripts into that library...
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| 09:53 | The library would only have a set to make shell programming more portable across distros, and the initscripts or ltsp-build-client scripts would use that library
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| 09:53 | *a set of functions...
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| 09:54 | <knipwim> basically a set of templates which could be expanded using e.g. common-functions.d/Ubuntu
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> A basic set of functions that common ltsp code can rely upon, yes
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| 09:56 | <knipwim> but still, the functions of ltsp-update-image, ltsp-build-client etc. would all be in there, resulting in relatively large file
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| 09:56 | that won't be a problem?
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> I don't think they should be there
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| 09:57 | If their code is portable (using the library), they could be inside ltsp-update-image etc
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| 09:58 | If it's not, we just apply the same system there?
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| 09:58 | <knipwim> i was still wondering how to solve the redundancy issues that currently exists for the commandline parts
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| 09:58 | different distro's defining the same commands in their own functions
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| 09:58 | that should be common i guess
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> OK suppose ltsp-update-image needs "get_package_version" and "compress_chroot", both of which are distro specific
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| 09:59 | get_package_version would be in common-functions, because it's common, more scripts would need it
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| 09:59 | compress_chroot shouldn't be there, as ltsp-update-image is the only script that would need it
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| 09:59 | So, maybe we can use function overrides for ltsp-update-image too
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| 10:00 | Inside ltsp-update-image:
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| 10:00 | <knipwim> overrides for commands and distros
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> compress_chroot()
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| 10:00 | { your distro doesn't implement this }
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| 10:00 | <knipwim> that could work
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> inside ltsp-update-image.d/ubuntu => the override
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| 10:01 | I think that would still allow the ltsp-update-image main code to be portable...
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| 10:02 | <knipwim> i like it, but, isn't this also a complete redesign resulting in migration issues? ;)
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| 10:05 | <alkisg> I think it allows for slow migration...
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| 10:08 | * knipwim is wondering about that | |
| 10:08 | <knipwim> but still
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| 10:09 | i could also try to implement that based on the code i have already
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| 10:09 | so we have two proposals to discuss
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| 10:09 | and migration issues to consider
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| 10:09 | <alkisg> Let me check if we can make a nice "call_distro_specific_function" wrapper, that would source files or report errors as appropriate...
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| 10:15 | <knipwim> going for some breakfast....
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> While it's doable, people at #bash didn't like the "call_distro_specific_function" wrapper idea, so having dummy "not implemented" functions is probably the way to go
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| 12:08 | A complimentary idea is that ltsp-common-functions could also source $0.$distro
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| 12:08 | So if called by ltsp-update-image on ubuntu, it would source ltsp-update-image(functions).ubuntu,
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| 12:08 | while if called by ltsp-chroot, it would source ltsp-chroot.ubuntu, etc etc
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| 12:09 | <knipwim> yeah, i was thinking along those lines as well
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| 12:10 | so the command would only have to source ltsp-common-functions
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 12:23 | <VectorX> ok so bit baffled here,*ubuntu installed amd64 ran ltsp-build-client --arch i386 and the clients just have a file menu sort of thig with no apps, if i install the 386 version and client loads all the regular apps are available, how do i make that happen with the other method ?
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| 13:40 | <knipwim> alkisg: just checking some assumptions
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| 13:40 | * the common-functions.d/ will contain the plugin functions (function based)
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| 13:40 | * each distro will either use the old system, or the new system
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| 13:40 | * each command (ltsp-*) first checks if there is a distro specific part in common-functions.d/ , if there is, use that, otherwise execute using old system
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> knipwim: so the scripts will be named something like this? common-functions.d/ltsp-update-image-common, common-functions.d/ltsp-update-image-ubuntu... ? Also, in this specific case, maybe the ltsp-update-image-common functions belong to the ltsp-update-image script itself?
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> We could also leave it up to the packager to put the distro functions always in /usr/share/ltsp/distro-functions.d ...
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| 14:56 | So, common-functions.d, overriden by distro-functions.d, and those could even be overriden by vendor-functions.d. All those sourced automatically by checking $0 at the top of ltsp-common-functions.
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