IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 November 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:36 | <alkisg> !disable_compiz
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| 01:36 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 02:17 | <hahlo> g'morning, noticed that if I make some file change on ltsp-server it takes a while before I see it in fatclient, first thought that I have to log out or reboot fatclient but just waiting is enough, is there some cache somewhere?
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| 02:18 | arthurl has joined #ltsp | |
| 02:18 | <arthurl> hi
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| 02:18 | sorry to ask this again
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| 02:18 | I seem to have a problem with /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/P00-ltsp-cluster
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| 02:19 | I don't quite understand why it removes .ssh/know_hosts
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| 02:19 | manually trying to connect to port 8001 of my ldm server doens't work
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| 02:19 | is this port open temporarily ?
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| 02:27 | <arthurl> we are considering removing this script since it seems to be useful only when you have numerous servers that regularly change
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| 04:50 | <alkisg> !xauthority
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| 04:50 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "xauthority" :: to access the client X session from a local root shell, try: eval $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=') && export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
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| 04:51 | <arthurl> !P00-ltsp-cluster
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| 04:51 | <ltspbot`> arthurl: Error: "P00-ltsp-cluster" is not a valid command.
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| 05:46 | <arthurl> has anyone got LOCAL_DEV working on a ltsp-cluster setup ?
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| 05:46 | we're having problems with FUSE
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| 05:46 | FUSE is compiled in the kernel
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| 05:46 | hondak_ has left #ltsp | |
| 05:47 | <arthurl> /lib/udev/ltspfs_entry add sdb auto gives an error
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| 05:47 | "/dev/fuse not writeable"
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| 05:47 | <arthurl> # ls -alh /dev/fuse
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| 05:47 | crw-rw-rw- 1 root fuse 10, 229 Nov 10 11:27 /dev/fuse
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| 06:05 | <mnemoc> alkisg: could this compiz thing be worked around on lts.conf ?
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| 06:06 | <alkisg> mnemoc: no, it's a gconf setting
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| 06:06 | It's possible to make a script that processes some lts.conf variable and changes the setting, but there currently isn't any such option, and the best way anyway is to get it solved upstream in gnome-wm or compiz
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| 06:07 | <mnemoc> GideonRomm said in the ticket a "helper" saying if he could ask an script of the machine is compiz compatible he could solve it on the LTSP side
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| 06:07 | ok
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| 06:07 | err
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| 06:08 | s/saying//
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> I think if such a script existed, then gnome-wm could just use it instead of us
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| 06:09 | <mnemoc> true
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| 06:12 | <alkisg> Btw I think I remotely saw another card that experienced the same problem in a normal ubuntu installation, openchrome-based again
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| 06:12 | <mnemoc> so openchrome is advertising itself incorrectly?
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| 06:12 | <alkisg> So any LTSP-side scripts wouldn't work there...
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| 06:13 | Maybe, or maybe gnome-wm isn't checking all the correct values
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| 06:44 | mnemoc: just added 2 comments in the bug report
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| 07:00 | <mgariepy> arthurl, does your user is a member of fuse group ?
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| 07:00 | <arthurl> yes
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| 07:02 | mgariepy, the error seems to come from the application server
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| 07:02 | on which # ls -alh /dev/fuse
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| 07:02 | crw-rw---- 1 root fuse 10, 229 Oct 30 21:15 /dev/fuse
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| 07:03 | did a chmod a+rw to see how much further it would get me
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| 07:03 | <mgariepy> $ ls -las /dev/fuse
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| 07:03 | 0 crw-rw-rw- 1 root fuse 10, 229 2010-10-18 07:54 /dev/fuse
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| 07:03 | that's what i have on our server here.
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| 07:03 | <arthurl> and go this : fuse: failed to exec fusermount: Permission denied
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| 07:03 | Error: /tmp/.arthur-ltspfs/usbdisk-sdb-sdb is not mounted
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| 07:04 | <mgariepy> ls -las /bin/fusermount
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| 07:04 | 32 -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 31328 2010-09-27 05:21 /bin/fusermount
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| 07:04 | <arthurl> # ls -las /usr/bin/fusermount
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| 07:04 | 28 -rwsr-xr-- 1 root fuse 28200 Sep 21 09:14 /usr/bin/fusermount
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| 07:05 | <mgariepy> which distro ?
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| 07:06 | <arthurl> debian
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| 07:06 | chmod a+x seems to unblock the situation
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| 07:06 | weird since connected user is part of fuse group
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| 07:06 | <mgariepy> indeed
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| 07:07 | do you add them to the group with pam_group ?
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> !learn socat as one way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1 && exec screen -x",pty,stderr tcp:server:5500 & screen -l
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| 07:13 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: Error: "local" is not a valid command.
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> !learn socat as one way to share a console with a remote person is: (local pc) socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 (remote pc) socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1 && exec screen -x",pty,stderr tcp:server:5500 & screen -l
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| 07:14 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 07:14 | <mgariepy> !socat
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| 07:14 | <ltspbot`> mgariepy: "socat" :: one way to share a console with a remote person is: (local pc) socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 (remote pc) socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1 && exec screen -x",pty,stderr tcp:server:5500 & screen -l
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| 07:14 | <mgariepy> nice :)
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> ltspbot is very handy sometimes :D
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| 07:15 | <mgariepy> note taking bot ! :)
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| 07:16 | alkisg, did you tests remote apps with fat client ?
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> mgariepy: no, I'm not using either local or remote apps, so any tests would be very simplistic...
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| 07:16 | <mgariepy> ok
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| 07:23 | <marcellodj> Morning all
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| 07:23 | <robehend1> Morning
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| 07:24 | <marcellodj> i want ask help for the following: just installed opensuse + ltsp (kiwi) and all is working,except that i can't see incons on thins just words!!!
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> !kiwi-ltsp
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| 07:24 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "kiwi-ltsp" :: http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> Hmmm it should also mention the irc channel there...
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| 07:25 | !forget kiwi-ltsp
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| 07:25 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 07:26 | <marcellodj> i think is not wiwi related
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> !learn kiwi-ltsp as for kiwi-ltsp related questions, you can also ask in the #kiwi-ltsp freenode IRC channel, or visit http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
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| 07:26 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 07:27 | <marcellodj> thanks
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| 07:38 | <robehend1> Anyone have hardware sizing recommendations for LTSP Fat Clients?
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> For the server? Or for the fat clients themselves?
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| 07:39 | <robehend1> both, if you have info ;)
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> Well, fat clients == like standalone ubuntu PCs, you can find the requirements there
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| 07:40 | Server => need ram, disk and good network speed but you don't need a good cpu
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| 07:40 | <robehend1> ok, thats what i thought for that. luckily 10.04 hasnt boosted those requirements that high
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| 07:43 | darn, looks like the clients would need more ram. doubt 512 would cut it from fat clients
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> 512 is the minimum for fat clients afaik - some apps like openoffice launch much slower, and some apps like e.g. tuxpaint run better. 1 Gb RAM would be much better.
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| 07:45 | (slower or better compared to if they were running as thin clients)
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| 07:45 | <robehend1> agreed. I'll have to look into some other client machines. These ones are on their last legs, as it is
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| 07:45 | not much you can do with a 1.8 ghz celeron with 512 mb or ddr ram these days
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| 07:45 | * chupacabra wonders what a "fat client" is and why? | |
| 07:46 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 07:46 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "fatclients" :: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 07:46 | <robehend1> chupacabra: It's basically running the whole system on the client hardware, instead of the server. allows you to have the benefits of centralized management from LTSP, while leveraging the power of your hardware for speed and local device support
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| 07:46 | <chupacabra> oh ubuntu... fat everything. that aint LTSP
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| 07:47 | <alkisg> It's a fat client implementation that is based on LTSP and uses it's infrastructure
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| 07:47 | <robehend1> chupacabra: It's partially LTSP. you still boot via pxe, you still pull from the server, it just allows you easier support for local devices, and can help you leverage your hardware at the client end
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| 07:48 | chupacabra: Plus, it saves *tons* of time in management, due to maintianing only the chroot, compared to each installation
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| 07:48 | <pmatulis> chupacabra: you think 'fat client' is a ubuntu creation?
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| 07:49 | <chupacabra> I know it aint Jims.
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| 07:49 | <robehend1> different strokes for different folks. fat clients, kiosks, thin clients, zero clients, they all have their place in different networks
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| 07:50 | i'm looking at fat clients for better support of Openshot, myself, for one of my classes, as an example
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| 07:50 | <chupacabra> no wonder I never see Jim in here anymore. This is not ltsp any more.
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| 07:50 | scotty ever come around?
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| 07:51 | <pmatulis> chupacabra: are you talking to yourself?
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| 07:51 | <chupacabra> I guess y'all dont know jim and scotty?
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| 07:54 | * chupacabra goes to ltsp.org to read about the takeover by aliens. | |
| 07:55 | <chupacabra> nothing about fat clients on the front page... whew.
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| 07:55 | <robehend1> nope. just another specialized way to deploy ltsp. nothing wrong with some flexibility
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| 07:55 | at least until I can get reliable video editing through a standard ltsp setup
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| 07:56 | <ogra_ac> chupacabra, jammcq and sbalneav are around frequently, they just dont do much development anymore
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| 07:57 | <chupacabra> hey ogra. a familiar name. Thanks.
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| 07:59 | ogra_ac: What do they think of fat clients? So I got a better feel for whats up.
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| 08:05 | <highvoltage> good morning
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| 08:10 | <Gadi> so, off topic question:
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| 08:11 | does anyone know of a GUI for Display settings (aka xrandr) that is as good as gnome's but without all the deps?
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| 08:11 | I need something that can at least handle laying out more than one monitor
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| 08:12 | grandr seems mostly broken and unmaintained
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| 08:12 | <ogra_ac> i would check xubuntu ... they might have something re-implemented
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| 08:12 | <Gadi> well, if they do, it isn't xfce's display settings gui
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| 08:12 | :P
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| 08:12 | it has been one of the worst Ive tried
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| 08:12 | doesn't even detect what xrandr detects
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| 08:13 | <ogra_ac> well, there is some xubuntu specific sauce
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| 08:13 | <Gadi> I will ask in #xubuntu
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| 08:13 | <ogra_ac> at least for the power manager i know they have something thats not actually upstream xfce
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| 08:15 | <Gadi> yeah - I assumed xfce's would be at par with gnome and kde
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| 08:15 | I was surprised when it was not
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| 08:15 | :(
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| 08:15 | <robehend1> I've never had luck with XFCE, myself. nice system, but I prefer Gnome or LXDE myself
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| 08:16 | * chupacabra doesn't know. he hacks xorg.conf | |
| 08:16 | <chupacabra> xfce has wandered off course.
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| 08:16 | <robehend1> I'm hoping it comes back. And trims down a bit. I dont notice much of a difference between XFCE and Gnome these days, resource wise
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| 08:16 | <chupacabra> exactly.
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| 08:17 | <robehend1> or, if xfce is considered a lost project, maybe more resources get poured into LXDE. i'm amazed at what it can run on, lately.
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| 08:17 | <chupacabra> kinda like here. Olivier is hardly around anymore and the kids have run amuck.
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| 08:17 | <Gadi> yeah, I tried lxrandr
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| 08:17 | its gui can change res on multiple monitors
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| 08:17 | but does not lay them out
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| 08:18 | <chupacabra> I have been using fluxbox mostly.
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| 08:19 | I kinda like lxde but havn't gotten used to it.
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| 08:20 | <robehend1> lxde needs a bit more config options, i think. I can go hack into the configs, but for users, a Gui is nice
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| 08:20 | <chupacabra> yan same as fluxbox and since i know its config i stick with it
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| 08:24 | * chupacabra wanders back to #gentoo | |
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| 09:35 | <zamba> sabayon still crap?
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| 09:37 | <Gadi> zamba: taking a survey?
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| 09:37 | :)
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| 09:37 | <robehend1> It still crashes, but it does its job
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| 09:37 | most of the time
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| 09:38 | <zamba> well.. the only thing i wanted to do with it was set the home page for the browser
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| 09:38 | <robehend1> cant you do that natively through Gconf?
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| 09:38 | <zamba> entering properties caused firefox to crash
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| 09:38 | sure, if i only knew how
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| 09:38 | that's why i was using sabayon in the first palce :)
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| 09:38 | place*
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| 09:39 | <robehend1> I'd recommend investigating gconf-editor. It's really not as bad as it first apperas
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| 09:39 | <zamba> how can i roll out the changes? i write it to a file?
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| 09:39 | <no_mind> is there a way to figure out the mac address of the client for internet requests ?
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| 09:39 | I want to implement a mac address based squid access control for LTSP clients
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| 09:39 | <robehend1> if I'm not mistaken, you can drop it into /etc/skel, but I could be wrong
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| 09:55 | <mnemoc> what's the right place for nx/ubuntu connection problems? it authenticates and "su" without problems, but doesn't display anything :< I'm trying to get a session in the LTSP server so I can test ltsp clients in a emulator
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| 10:01 | is `nxsetup --install` still needed in ubuntu 10.10?
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| 10:17 | <mnemoc> weee! :D
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| 10:36 | <mardok> Can /quit
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| 10:36 | mt
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| 12:24 | <marcellodj> hello
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| 12:25 | strange things here: if i log with thin1/thin1 screen is blank, all work if i use other login
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| 12:25 | what's wrong?
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| 12:26 | <alkisg> It works with one user but not with another?
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| 12:42 | <mgariepy> marcellodj, if you remove the $HOME of the user, can you login correctly ?
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| 12:54 | <marcellodj> yes if i switch user
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| 12:54 | tried also to delete home
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| 12:54 | <alkisg> And? It's still happening?
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| 12:55 | <marcellodj> yes
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| 12:55 | only chance is to use another username/pw
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| 12:55 | <alkisg> Is that Ubuntu?
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| 12:55 | <marcellodj> before this username was binded to macaddr for autolog
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| 12:56 | <alkisg> (or better, is that gnome?)
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| 12:56 | <evil_root> anything in that users .xsession-errors?
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| 12:58 | <marcellodj> yes the gui is gnome
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| 12:59 | where i can find x errors i m on opensuse
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> marcellodj: you're probably affected by the compiz problem. What card on the client?
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| 12:59 | !localxterm
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| 12:59 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 12:59 | <marcellodj> is a ino
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> ...on that, try: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
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| 12:59 | <marcellodj> card ? mean svga?
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> and: xdpyinfo | grep -i Composite
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| 12:59 | Yes, which graphics card...
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| 13:00 | <marcellodj> AMD LX800 is the cpu
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| 13:00 | <alkisg> No, not the CPU, the svga
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| 13:01 | <marcellodj> there is no way to know
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| 13:01 | i dont have spec of that
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| 13:01 | may be i should try VESA?
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| 13:02 | <alkisg> marcellodj: see the commands I pasted above
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| 13:02 | ltsp-localapps xterm, lspci and xdpyinfo
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| 13:02 | Those will tell you the svga
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| 13:02 | <marcellodj> ok
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| 13:10 | no way
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| 13:10 | the commands dont work
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| 13:11 | i can run only as root
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| 13:11 | but it obviously report the specs of the server
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> No localapps in opensuse?
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| 13:12 | <marcellodj> seems to no
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| 13:12 | try to force VESA?
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> What do you have in that user's ~/.xsession-errors, like evil_root suggested? Something about compiz there?
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| 13:13 | <marcellodj> compiz disabled
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| 13:13 | i had done some searches
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| 13:13 | but no chance also disabling
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> Can you put ~/.xsession-errors to pastebin?
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| 13:13 | !pastebot
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| 13:13 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> (of the user that fails to login)
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| 13:14 | <marcellodj> ok
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| 13:14 | i will report
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| 13:14 | tnx
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| 13:15 | can t find the xsession dir
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| 13:16 | where is?
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| 13:16 | <alkisg> /home/user/.xsession-errors
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| 13:16 | You need to be root or that user to access it
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| 13:26 | <marcellodj> yes
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| 13:26 | but there is no dir so named
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| 13:29 | <highvoltage> sbalneav: are you around?
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| 13:35 | <cliebow_> Where's SCOTTIE!??
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| 13:42 | <highvoltage> scottie got beamed up!
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| 13:48 | <mgariepy> someone here is using gnome on debian and have 2 minutes for me ?
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| 13:50 | <highvoltage> mgariepy: /me
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| 13:54 | <Gadi> mgariepy: was it you guys who told me you have seen an issue where gnome-panel won't come up on a first login of a user?
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| 13:59 | <mgariepy> Gadi, i saw this a while ago
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| 13:59 | but i can't remember what was the issue :/
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> !gnome-panel
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| 13:59 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: Error: "gnome-panel" is not a valid command.
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> learn gnome-panel as to completely reset gnome-panels: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
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| 14:00 | !learn gnome-panel as to completely reset gnome-panels: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
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| 14:00 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> (might workaround the issue)
| |
| 14:00 | <Gadi> thx
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| 14:00 | maybe just needs an update
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| 14:02 | <gieltjev> With LTSP, is there any way the client can use the printer port ?
| |
| 14:03 | <evil_root> install cups in the chroot ltsp image environment
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| 14:03 | <gieltjev> i want to setup a simple development enviorment, and blinking leds trough the parallel port is one of the Examples
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| 14:03 | @evil_root: i don't think cups is gonna work here...
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| 14:03 | <evil_root> oh
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| 14:05 | <gieltjev> is there some kind of remote debugging using gcc? if so i can install gcc and a remotedebugging interface into the chroot
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| 14:07 | <alkisg> Maybe run that example as a localapp?
| |
| 14:09 | <gieltjev> can you run every program (without modifications) as localapp?
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> If the dependencies are satisfied, I assume so
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| 14:10 | <evil_root> and if its installed in the chrooted environment
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| 14:10 | <Gadi> or if it is a static binary, you can just put it in your home dir
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| 14:11 | * Gadi pictures a CS class writing a self-contained example program | |
| 14:12 | <gieltjev> they code and compile the code itself, so the binary cannot be in the chroot
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| 14:12 | <Gadi> right, but they can put it in the homedir
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| 14:12 | <gieltjev> if you put it in the home directory, the client does not recognise
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| 14:12 | <Gadi> sure it does
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| 14:12 | <Kyle__> Gadi: Even if it's not static you can put it in your home dir. As long as the libraries it needs are on the system it'll be fine :)
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| 14:13 | <gieltjev> and how do you run it as localapp then?
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| 14:13 | <Gadi> ltsp-localapp $HOME/example
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| 14:13 | <Kyle__> gieltjev: It may not be in the users's path. Is that what's happening?
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| 14:13 | <Gadi> er, ltsp-localapps
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| 14:13 | hehe
| |
| 14:14 | <alkisg> !localxterm
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| 14:14 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> ...or they can run it from a localxterm, so that they also see the output
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| 14:14 | <gieltjev> ok i didn't know that
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| 14:14 | <Gadi> or they can compile it in the local xterm and use the client's OS for the compilation tools
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| 14:16 | <gieltjev> thanks, i imagined all kind of difficult stuff using ssh an copying it to the client and running it :)
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| 14:22 | <evil_root> lol, not with bad ass ltsp 5
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| 14:24 | <gieltjev> if this works all my blaim against LTSP will dissolve
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| 14:24 | <Gadi> evil_root: don't you read the listservs? LTSP's days are numbered.... ;)
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| 14:25 | guess we will have to go to Maine *just* to drink beer
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| 14:25 | :D
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| 14:25 | <evil_root> listservs?
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> Nah, wayland will also offer ltsp pause/resume sessions ability :D
| |
| 14:26 | * Gadi refers to a current thread on the k12ltsp (k12osn?) listserv | |
| 14:26 | <alkisg> Ah! Any web links for that?
| |
| 14:26 | <Gadi> I don't know - the web is just a fad - I don't use it
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| 14:26 | :)
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12ltsp-list/ ?
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| 14:27 | <evil_root> lol Gadi
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> Is it this one? "[K12ltsp-list] Your wife photos attached, " ?
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| 14:28 | :P
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| 14:28 | <Gadi> alkisg: http://www.listshow.net/201011/k12osn/6968-k12osn-life-after-ltsp.html
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> Ah! Spice! Keeping a separate VM for each of 1000 clients.... :D
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| 14:30 | <highvoltage> http://gigaom.com/2010/11/08/the-economics-of-servers-could-soon-change/
| |
| 14:30 | (ARM based servers)
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> And why is DRBL different than ltsp with fat clients? (except that it can't be removed after installation?)
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| 14:33 | <gieltjev> hi, back again: i just compiled a piece of code, but i need root access on the client to execute this program. what is the easiest way with an local xterm?
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| 14:35 | <Gadi> gieltjev: you would need to modify the chroot's sudoers file and make sure the user is in the appropriate group
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| 14:35 | or setuid the program
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| 14:36 | but, you cant really do that if you dont have perms
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| 14:36 | so, best bet is sudo
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| 14:36 | <gieltjev> but the user isn't listed on the chroot right?
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| 14:37 | <Gadi> with localapps, the user and all of his groups relationships will be pulled down from the server on the fly on login
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| 14:37 | so, if the user is in, say, the "chroot-admin" group on the server,
| |
| 14:38 | when he logs in, the chroot-admin group will be created on the client temporarily and he will be in it
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| 14:38 | so, if you edit the chroot's sudoers to allow NOPASSWORD access to members of %chroot-admin
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| 14:38 | you should be good to go
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| 14:39 | artista_frustrad has quit IRC | |
| 14:39 | <gieltjev> so if the user is in the "lp" group on the server, it will be on the client as well when executing a localxterm?
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> should be
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| 14:39 | <gieltjev> that should solve the problem right?
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> if that is the problem you need to solve
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| 14:39 | yes
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| 14:39 | if you need to run the program as root for some other reason....
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| 14:39 | :)
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| 14:40 | <gieltjev> still a bit confused with the whole LTSP idea
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| 14:41 | <Gadi> we excel at that - we thrive on failed attempts to eschew obfuscation
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| 14:42 | <gieltjev> :)
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| 14:47 | gorkhaan has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:51 | artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:53 | <gieltjev> in LTSP 4 you could monitor all sessions, is there some way to do this in version 5?
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| 14:54 | <highvoltage> gieltjev: "monitor"? as in iTalc?
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| 14:55 | <gieltjev> yes,
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| 14:57 | as far as i know the LTSP server runs multiple X11 sessions and tunnels these trough ssh. is there a way to do this in a more effective way?
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| 15:00 | <highvoltage> that seems like a different question than the monitoring one
| |
| 15:01 | <gieltjev> no, i meant isn't it possible to tap right into these sessions at the server, instead of running an app on each client to monitor
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| 15:03 | <chupacabra> It is possible and in fact that is the way ltsp started.
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| 15:03 | then the server got bogged with all the apps so it was decided to use the cpu on the client to run apps.
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| 15:04 | and AFAIK ltsp does not run over ssh
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| 15:04 | <highvoltage> chupacabra: it does ;)
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| 15:04 | <chupacabra> when and why did that start?
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| 15:04 | <highvoltage> gieltjev: in short, you'll basically need an app, like iTalc
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| 15:04 | * Gadi watches the eschewing | |
| 15:04 | <chupacabra> lol
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| 15:05 | <highvoltage> chupacabra: around 5 years ago
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| 15:05 | <chupacabra> and why?
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| 15:05 | The client gets it kernel over ssh?
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| 15:05 | no way?
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| 15:05 | maybe way
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| 15:05 | cliebow_ has quit IRC | |
| 15:05 | <highvoltage> chupacabra: it gets the kernel over tftp
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| 15:05 | <chupacabra> right
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| 15:05 | * Gadi gets comfy with some popcorn | |
| 15:06 | <chupacabra> then starts ssh for the rest?
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| 15:06 | <highvoltage> chupacabra: ltsp uses a bunch of technologies. it uses nbd or nfs to export the root filesystem. it can use ssh or rdesktop to display a remote session
| |
| 15:07 | * chupacabra has been doing ltsp since 2001 | |
| 15:07 | <chupacabra> nfs is what I know.
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| 15:08 | well then rdesktop and ssh aren't part of ltsp, just tools to use in ltsp.
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| 15:09 | Running the fs over ssh would have to suck more than even nfs
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| 15:09 | <highvoltage> pretty much all of ltsp is made up of other tools. if you cut all the tools it's made out of, you end up with basically LDM and a few relatively simple shell scripts
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| 15:09 | <chupacabra> Which is ltsp. all the other stuff was left to the user.
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| 15:09 | <highvoltage> chupacabra: in Ubuntu we use NBD by default instead of NFS, it has improved performance and thin clients boots faster
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| 15:10 | <chupacabra> that makes sense
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| 15:10 | we talked about that before.
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| 15:10 | <highvoltage> Gadi: I hope this is less entertaining that what you hoped for :)
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| 15:11 | <chupacabra> I should probably read and catch back up.
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| 15:11 | but essentially it seems my suppositions are right.
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| 15:11 | wideyes has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:12 | <wideyes> anyone in the mood to provide some ltsp help?
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| 15:12 | <evil_root> this is the ltsp channel wideyes...
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| 15:13 | <chupacabra> I got ltsp "Server Proven" on all ibm hardware in 2003
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| 15:13 | <wideyes> good, so I'm in the right place ;)
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| 15:13 | seemed quiet
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| 15:14 | <chupacabra> they let me have an instance on mainframes to do it there. They got mad when they noticed i was using irc from their server.
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| 15:15 | had to have #ltsp when I got in over my head.
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| 15:15 | <wideyes> I have an ltsp server separate from my DHCP server and I'm having trouble loading images
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| 15:16 | <evil_root> whats your dhcp.conf look like?
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| 15:16 | <wideyes> I have a group created for the ltsp server
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| 15:16 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 15:16 | <wideyes> using the next-server directive
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| 15:17 | accessing the tftp server on the ltsp machine doesn't work
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| 15:17 | I have copied the pxelinux.0 and all relevant tftp files over to the dhcp server, which serves them up just fine
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| 15:18 | my thin clients find the pxelinux.0 file and start loading
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| 15:18 | but then they complain they can't find the nbd server, because presumably it's on the ltsp box
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| 15:18 | did I describe that clearly?
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| 15:19 | <evil_root> ubuntu?
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| 15:19 | ltsp 5?
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| 15:19 | <wideyes> here's the thing
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| 15:19 | <gieltjev> you could edit the pxelinux.cfg/default, i thought you could set an NBDPORT and ip there
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| 15:19 | <wideyes> the ltsp box is ubuntu 10.04
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| 15:19 | but the dhcp server is debian sarge 3.1
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| 15:19 | I know, I know, old
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| 15:20 | <evil_root> the ltsp server. is it 64 bit or 32 bit?
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| 15:20 | <wideyes> 64 bit
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| 15:20 | <evil_root> and the clients?
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| 15:20 | <wideyes> I have constructed the chroot in the i386 environment
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| 15:20 | they are all 32 bit
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| 15:20 | <evil_root> humm
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| 15:21 | <wideyes> good call gieltjev, I have tried changing the pxelinux.cfg/default file
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| 15:21 | now, will I need to restart my tftp daemon after I do that?
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| 15:22 | I have had trouble with this, as the version I'm running appears to be old
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| 15:22 | <gieltjev> no, you don't have to restart the daemon
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| 15:22 | <wideyes> ok, good to know
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| 15:23 | the entry I tried was nbdroot=my.ltsp.server.ip, 12345
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| 15:23 | <gieltjev> nbdroot should be right
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| 15:24 | ogra_ac has quit IRC | |
| 15:24 | <wideyes> I've also tried it with the nbdport=2000 option
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| 15:25 | the port setting is right as per my nbd-server config
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| 15:25 | I've read in some places that I should delete my /etc/nbd-server/default file
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| 15:25 | tried that, doesn't change anything
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| 15:27 | <gieltjev> if you remove the quiet in the pxelinux.cfg/default, you should get some more info
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| 15:27 | <wideyes> ah, thanks for that
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| 15:27 | will try now
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| 15:28 | I'm wondering too: with my option root-path, should I be pointing it to /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img ?
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| 15:29 | I've tried that and /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 15:30 | I get an error message: switching to colour frame buffer device 80x30
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| 15:30 | then "error: failed to connect to nbd server"
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> wideyes: it'd be much easier if you used the ubuntu tftp server, and just pointed your debian dhcp server to it with the next-server directive
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| 15:32 | You wouldn't need to transfer any files after each kernel upgrade then
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| 15:33 | (and you'd also wouldn't need to modify pxelinux.cfg etc etc)
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| 15:33 | <wideyes> ok, that sounds good. I (thought I had properly) tried that, but I seem to have failed so far. You could probably instruct me how to do it right :)
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ is a good resource
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| 15:33 | ...but for that specific case, I think only next-server is needed, nothing more
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| 15:33 | <wideyes> I have looked through there
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| 15:34 | yes, I thought next-server would be sufficient
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| 15:34 | ogra_ac has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:34 | <wideyes> so I'm scratching my head as to why it can't seem to find the pxelinux.0 file
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> Did you also set boot filename?
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| 15:34 | <wideyes> it seems the dhcp server wants the tftp server to reside on the same machine
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> No, that's not true
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| 15:35 | <wideyes> yes, to /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 15:35 | oh, ok
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> In ubuntu it's not there
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| 15:35 | It's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 15:35 | <wideyes> oh, right you are
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> So you need to specify /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 15:35 | (the other part is the "chroot" of the tftp server)
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| 15:35 | <wideyes> option root-path is the one I just wrote
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| 15:35 | yes, I had tried that as the filename
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> OK, do all those again and let's start troubleshooting
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| 15:36 | <wideyes> the client responds with a pxe error saying no operating system found
| |
| 15:36 | ok, sounds good!
| |
| 15:36 | and thanks, btw!
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> Restore any other changes you possibly made
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| 15:36 | <wideyes> one minute
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| 15:36 | k
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| 15:36 | one question right off the bat
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> For reference, this is similar: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
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| 15:37 | <wideyes> I read on the webs to try and delete the /etc/nbd-server/default file
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> (an external -windows-based- dhcp server)
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| 15:37 | <wideyes> it is currently deleted
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| 15:37 | shall I try to restore a default one?
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> Nope
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| 15:37 | <wideyes> ok, groovy
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> If you created one, then it wouldn't run from inetd, and your setup would be confused
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| 15:39 | <wideyes> hm
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| 15:39 | I did a dpkg nbd-server reconfigure a little while back
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| 15:39 | that may have created it
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> We'll get there don't worry. Let's get the tftp/kernel first.
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| 15:39 | mgariepy has quit IRC | |
| 15:39 | <wideyes> k
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> To test your ubuntu tftp server: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP#Use%20an%20external%20tftp%20client
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| 15:43 | <wideyes> which port should I use for the tftp test?
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> No need to specify a port
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| 15:43 | It's the default, 69
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| 15:44 | <some other pc/tmp>$ tftp ubuntu-server -v -m binary -c get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 15:44 | <wideyes> hm. When I use the "tftp myserverip -v -m binary -c get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0" command it dumps me to a tftp shell
| |
| 15:44 | and instructs me on syntax
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> Maybe an older version
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| 15:44 | <wideyes> lemme try a different system
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> OK, try tftp myserverip get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 15:44 | *-c
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| 15:45 | <wideyes> ah, ok good, says "getting from..."
| |
| 15:45 | like it should
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> And did the file actually arrive?
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| 15:46 | <wideyes> yup
| |
| 15:46 | so that looks ok
| |
| 15:47 | <alkisg> Nice, so now it's up to your debian dhcp server to make the client boot
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| 15:47 | Put next-server, boot filename and root-path there, and restart the dhcp3-server
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| 15:48 | (root-path isn't used on ubuntu, but some PXE clients seem to need it even if it's unused)
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| 15:49 | <wideyes> ok, question
| |
| 15:49 | so far I've been making this dhcp entry under a group
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| 15:49 | instead of at the 'head' of the config file, as it were
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| 15:49 | so this is a subset group
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| 15:49 | will that be a problem?
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> Not if your syntax is correct
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| 15:50 | <wideyes> this server is still running the old ltsp server, and I can't have downtime on it while I test the new one
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| 15:51 | let's try a boot and see what happens
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> You can tell dhcp3-server to be verbose and check daemon.log, or you can use gpxe on a client (e.g. on a usb stick) to see if it actually receives the appropriate boot settings
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| 15:52 | <gieltjev> if i install freeNX, can i still use the ltsp-localapps ?
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> Sure, as long as you don't use freenx on the client instead of ltsp :D
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| 15:53 | <wideyes> huh
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| 15:53 | <gieltjev> hmm, that will result into a problem
| |
| 15:53 | <wideyes> just booted!
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| 15:53 | :/
| |
| 15:53 | I'm not sure what was different this time
| |
| 15:53 | let's try that again, I'll pay attention to the onscreen messages
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> gieltjev: what exactly are you trying to do with freenx?
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| 15:54 | <gieltjev> archeive a higher refreshrate
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> On a LAN?
| |
| 15:54 | <gieltjev> yeah
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> LDM_DIRECTX=True gives the best frame rate you can achive
| |
| 15:55 | (at a security cost)
| |
| 15:55 | E.g. full screen videos at 30 fps
| |
| 15:55 | <gieltjev> i have a 3ghz dual Xeon on my desk with a dual gigabit uplink to a cisco switch serving only one client, and it is terrible slow
| |
| 15:55 | security is no problem :)
| |
| 15:55 | <alkisg> !directx
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| 15:55 | <gieltjev> it has its own vlan
| |
| 15:55 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "directx" :: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
| |
| 15:55 | <gieltjev> !docs
| |
| 15:55 | <ltspbot`> gieltjev: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
| |
| 15:55 | <alkisg> Or also
| |
| 15:55 | !lts.conf
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| 15:55 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
| |
| 15:57 | <wideyes> wow, strange: when I went over to my test client, it had somehow autobooted onto the desktop while I was talking with you. But now that I've rebooted it, same old error message
| |
| 15:57 | <gieltjev> and how do i only reboot the client in Xubuntu ?
| |
| 15:57 | if i shutdown the client session the server goes down with it
| |
| 15:57 | <alkisg> Logoff first, then select reboot from ldm?
| |
| 15:58 | wideyes: do you have another dhcp server around?
| |
| 15:58 | Did you uninstall the dhcp server in the ltsp server?
| |
| 15:58 | <wideyes> no, actually
| |
| 15:58 | I'll try that
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> dpkg -l dhcp3-server
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| 15:59 | If it's installed, then run:
| |
| 15:59 | sudo apt-get install ltsp-server
| |
| 15:59 | sudo apt-get install ltsp-server
| |
| 15:59 | sudo apt-get purge --auto-revove ltsp-server standalone
| |
| 15:59 | <gieltjev> isn't there a simpler way? in this case each kid on the computer is going to shutdown the server :(
| |
| 15:59 | <alkisg> No idea about xubuntu, we solved it for gnome and lxde
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| 16:01 | typo above, *auto-remove
| |
| 16:01 | <wideyes> just gonna ask that ;)
| |
| 16:01 | hm: "couldn't find package standalone"
| |
| 16:02 | oh wait
| |
| 16:02 | <alkisg> sorry, another typo: ltsp-server-standalone
| |
| 16:02 | <wideyes> did you mean
| |
| 16:02 | yes
| |
| 16:02 | <alkisg> Ouch, I hope you didn't remove ltsp-server :D
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| 16:02 | <wideyes> ok
| |
| 16:02 | we'll see, won't we? :)
| |
| 16:03 | ok, how would I check that?
| |
| 16:03 | <alkisg> dpkg -l ltsp-server
| |
| 16:03 | <gieltjev> how did you fix it in gnome and lxde?
| |
| 16:03 | <alkisg> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg767036.html
| |
| 16:04 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940
| |
| 16:04 | <wideyes> I'm assuming the entry ii ltsp-server version name etc. line at the bottom means it's still there and healthy
| |
| 16:04 | <alkisg> OK
| |
| 16:04 | <wideyes> try again?
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> Right
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| 16:05 | (ah, and check that now dhcp3-server isn't installed on ubuntu: dpkg -l dhcp3-server)
| |
| 16:05 | <wideyes> yup, no longer present
| |
| 16:06 | but, still can't find the pxe file
| |
| 16:06 | <gieltjev> my problem is as following, if i install edubuntu 10.10 my clients complain about the wrong kernel, if i install edubuntu 10,04 the client will boot, but when i login it will close the session after the startup sound
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| 16:06 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:06 | <wideyes> my ltsp server's address is mentioned nowhere in the dhcp ip listing, either
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| 16:06 | <gieltjev> but with xubuntu 10.04 and ltps everything works, except the shutdown
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> gieltjev: the former sounds like an ltsp-update-kernels didn't run, the latter like a compiz problem
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| 16:07 | <wideyes> the next-server directive doesn't seem to be executing properly
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> wideyes: can you paste your dhcp.conf from your debian server? And, did you restart the dhcp-server there?
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| 16:07 | <wideyes> yes, I did restart it
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| 16:07 | it's very long. which parts would you like?
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| 16:07 | <gieltjev> the kernels is because the clients don't support some new tecnology
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> gieltjev: ok, then stick to 10.04 if you want
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| 16:08 | wideyes: not sure, I'm not using dhcp3-server, I imagine the part where you declare the boot information for those clients?
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| 16:08 | <gieltjev> is compiz removable?
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> !gnome-wm
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| 16:08 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "gnome-wm" :: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
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| 16:09 | <alkisg> !disable_compiz
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| 16:09 | <gieltjev> !disable_compiz
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| 16:09 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 16:09 | gieltjev: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 16:10 | <gieltjev> that is totaly weird, the session closing only happens when the server is virtualized, if i install edubuntu directly onto a server it runs without problems
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| 16:11 | <evil_root> thats weird gieltjev, esxi?
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> Then it shouldn't be a compiz problem, that's a client-side problem. But ~/.xsession-errors should tell you what it is...
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| 16:11 | <wideyes> http://www.heypasteit.com/clip/P60
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| 16:11 | sorry, it's a bit messy
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| 16:11 | <gieltjev> yeah, or using vmware workstation
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| 16:12 | is there a way i can read all the hints, something like "!all"
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| 16:12 | <evil_root> odd, i got ubuntu 10.04 ltsp 5 running on esxi 4 and it runs just great
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| 16:12 | <wideyes> alkisg, let me know if more information is needed
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| 16:12 | <gieltjev> esxi 3, i'm limited to 32bit hardware
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| 16:13 | with a dual xeon 2.8ghz, how many clients can run smoothly
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> wideyes: I'm not very familiar with the dhcpd.conf syntax. Maybe you could try putting filename, next-server and root-path inside the specific host section with the fixed address, and then move that to your global section?
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| 16:14 | <wideyes> ah. good thought. will try
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| 16:14 | <evil_root> @gieltjev that depends if you setup for fat clients or thin clients
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| 16:15 | you will probably need to go fat because with 32 bit your not going to be able to have that much ram
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> 32bit with pae == 64 mb ram
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| 16:15 | <gieltjev> i have 9gb of ram in the server
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| 16:16 | it runs a router (clearOS), a webserver, and the LTSP server
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> What are your client specs? cpu/ram?
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| 16:16 | <gieltjev> the clients are 300mhz, 128mb ram
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> Thin it is then :)
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| 16:16 | <gieltjev> i have 5 of them
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> It's more than enough for 5 clients. LDM_DIRECTX=True will help with their slow CPUs
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| 16:17 | If you have vlan on them, I imagine it'll slow them down with the encryption...
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| 16:17 | <gieltjev> the vlan handling is done by the Cisco switch
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| 16:18 | <alkisg> Ah, ok then
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| 16:18 | <evil_root> i also recommend LDM_SSHOPTIONS = "-C"
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| 16:18 | for slower cpus
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| 16:18 | <alkisg> With 300mhz/128MB clients i'm able to watch full screen divx videos at 30 fps with no dropped frames
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| 16:19 | <gieltjev> -C is compression right?
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| 16:19 | but i don't know if i can get all clients their own port.
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> Their own port where? On the switch?
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| 16:20 | <gieltjev> yeah
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| 16:20 | <evil_root> correct its compression
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> So how are they going to connect?
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| 16:21 | * evil_root is also confused with the port question | |
| 16:21 | <gieltjev> the switch is in the loft, so pulling 5 wires down is going to be hard
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| 16:21 | @evil_root: Compression will slow them down right
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> If there's a server <=> gigabit switch <=> gigabit port <=> gigabit switch <=> clients connection, they'll be alright...
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| 16:23 | <evil_root> what alkisg said lol
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| 16:23 | <gieltjev> hmm, i will try to fix a gigabit switch then
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> Do the clients have gigabit cards?
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| 16:23 | <gieltjev> and only nope
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| 16:24 | no they don't
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| 16:24 | <wideyes> @alkisg: I'm going to sniff around the dhcp channel, see if I can get some good pointers there. Thank you so much for your help so far, and I may be back to pick your brain again before long
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> gieltjev: Then you'll need to watch out for the flow control problem: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FlowControl
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| 16:24 | wideyes: ok, hope someone here can help you with the dhcpd.conf syntax too
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| 16:25 | If you manage to send the clients those 3 options, you should be ok
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| 16:25 | <wideyes> feels on the right track at the moment. Thanks again for the help so far!
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| 16:26 | <gieltjev> wow, sow much info on one night:|
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> (the cisco switch will probably take care of that for you, I think those have flow control disabled by default)
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| 16:29 | <evil_root> i think your right alkisg, none of our cisco switches does it
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| 16:29 | * alkisg never had a cisco switch, only cheap stuff here :( | |
| 16:30 | <evil_root> lol
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| 16:30 | * evil_root has stacks of servers and switchs and routers laying around doing nothing | |
| 16:30 | <gieltjev> so to sum up everything: reinstall edubuntu 10.04 (i like gnome more than xfce, and the ability to shutdown the clients); throw out Compiz; set LDM_DIRECTX=True; set LDM_SSHOPTIONS = "-C" (even thoug i think compression takes more time?)
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> If you set LDM_DIRECTX=true, then ssh options are irrelevant
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| 16:31 | <evil_root> i dont know how to explain the -C gieltjev, i just get better fps on older clients when i use it
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> The X traffic doesn't go through ssh then
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| 16:32 | <gieltjev> too bad i only have one cisco switch to work with :(
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| 16:33 | otherwise i created a nice trunk between the two switches :)
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| 16:34 | <evil_root> nice
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| 16:34 | <gieltjev> how do you fetch all tips from the ltspbot ?
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| 16:36 | i am going to reinstall the server in the moring (for me about 10 hours away) and i think it is going to be silent on this channel.
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> There are some european users here too, so I think you'll find someone in the morning if you need help
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| 16:38 | <evil_root> and some americans that never sleep...
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| 16:38 | <gieltjev> thanks for all your help! the parallel experiment worked by the way :)
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| 16:39 | <gieltjev> you only need root priviliges, but that is a whole different part of linux ;)
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| 16:40 | bye
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| 16:40 | <evil_root> later
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