IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 October 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:30 | <nubae1> moin folks...
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| 04:17 | <nubae1> @images teaching
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| 05:11 | <nubae> hi Guest13149
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| 05:11 | :p
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| 05:13 | <ogra> nubae, ssshhh ... he pretends to be not himself :)
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| 05:37 | <nubae> ogra: I pasted a bug on launchpad concerning building xubuntu clients... the universe repo is required by default in 000-basic-configuration
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| 05:37 | or ltsp-build-client will die
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| 05:37 | <ogra> nubae, thats fixed since ages
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| 05:38 | <nubae> not in hardy
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| 05:39 | <ogra> sure
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| 05:39 | <nubae> (12:44:42 AM) staffencasa: nubae, I added universe to the 000-basic-configuration file and it worked
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| 05:39 | <ogra> hardy != 8.04 :) we dont offer 8.04 isos anymore
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| 05:40 | hardy = 8.04.1
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| 05:40 | the .1 CD and iso are built from hardy-updates which has the fix
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| 05:40 | nobody should use 8.04 isos or CDs as they carry the ssh bug
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| 05:41 | if they d, they should at least immediately upgrade which wil get them the fix as well
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| 05:41 | s/d/do/
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| 05:42 | * ogra points at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/47278 | |
| 05:42 | <ogra> oh, sorry, wrong one
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| 05:43 | but there is a bug for it
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| 05:43 | i just dont happen to find it right away
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| 05:43 | <nubae> MIRROR=http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
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| 05:43 | COMPONENTS="main restricted"
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| 05:43 | thats from intrepid
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| 05:43 | <ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/221894
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| 05:44 | <nubae> thats my current intrepid install... no universe in there
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| 05:46 | <ogra> hrm, right
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| 05:46 | stgraber, ^^^
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| 05:46 | * ogra notices that this isnt fixed upstream ... | |
| 05:46 | <nubae> how did it get label fixed on launchpad :d ?
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| 05:46 | * ogra does so | |
| 05:46 | <ogra> nubae, it was fixed in the package
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| 05:47 | stephane rolled a new upstream but seems that didnt get carried over ... my fault, i should have fixed it in the upstram brach as well
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| 05:47 | <nubae> ah...
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| 05:47 | <ogra> now we need to fix it in two places :/
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| 06:09 | <nubae> ogra: on a fat client, where should portmap and nfs be in the RC? I have to restart portmap through lts.conf
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| 06:09 | but thats not pretty
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| 06:34 | <alkisg> Hi, what's the difference between ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone packages? Only the dhcp-server? Because I've installed ltsp-server and in the clients X doesn't start...
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| 06:34 | (I can manually logon to the clients and start it though, and see the X cursor)
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| 06:46 | <nubae> gahhh... I just restarted may computer and network manager (even in unmanaged mode) took over all applications, meaning internet was there via ping, but no apps worked... I had to get rid of it entirely to make networking work again
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> OK, next question... :) What would be faster, nbd swapping on the very fast server hard disk over gbit ethernet, or local swapping on very old 10Gb local hard disks?
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| 06:47 | <nubae> I event tried deleting /etc/network/interfaces, to let NM take over
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| 06:47 | but stupid thing then froze
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| 06:47 | I feel sorry for those upgrading when intrepid comes out
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| 06:48 | <alkisg> nubae, yes, I'm using the beta and I've @#$^*^#@ the NM a lot of times...
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| 06:48 | <nubae> alkisg: pretty sure u can answer that question yourself ;-)
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| 06:49 | <alkisg> nubae, it's not my own school, so I only go there for 4 hours a week.. no time for benchmarks! :)
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| 06:49 | <nubae> nah, I mean from logic... the gigabit network swap would be faster
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| 06:49 | but dont know how that would affect bandwidth
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| 06:49 | <alkisg> Even with all the network latency and with 8 clients on it?
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| 06:49 | <nubae> if there is a lot of swapping... it might slow it down
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> clients = 64Mb ram :(
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| 06:50 | <nubae> 8 clients is nothing
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| 06:50 | <stgraber> ogra: hmm, right I didn't check for non-fixed fix released bugs :)
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> nubae, I really wonder about that. Do you people really use 1 server with, say, 20-30 clients?
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| 06:51 | <nubae> I use 1 server with 150 clients
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> nubae, !!! You got fiber? :)
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| 06:51 | nubae, what is the typical client usage? Just openoffice?
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| 06:51 | <nubae> granted, all multimedia stations are fat clients
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> ah, ok!
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| 06:51 | <nubae> and others are just internet, openoffice, some educational apps
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| 06:52 | but gigabit on all switches
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| 06:52 | gigabit to the multimedia stations
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| 06:52 | and 100mb to others...
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| 06:52 | but I seem to be one of the few people with little problems... along with Asmo, who also has a massive setup
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| 06:53 | strangely the complaints all come from people with smaller setups
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> What about LDM_DIRECTX? True or false?
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| 06:55 | Because with 450MHz clients, I can't put it True, and it makes my local net suffer...
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| 06:55 | <nubae> true
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| 06:55 | why cant u put it true?
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| 06:56 | <alkisg> No, true is fine, I meant the default, which is false, so data is compressed and less bandwidth is needed
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| 06:56 | I can't put it *false* I meant
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| 06:57 | <ogra> stgraber, there is a bunch in the diff.gz i'm pushing upstream now, but we'll sadly have to carry them for intrepid, want a patch system ?
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| 06:58 | <nubae> yeah I need it for the older machines too
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| 06:58 | the multimedia machines use the default though, not that it matters since everything runs locally
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| 06:58 | <alkisg> nubae, so how many non-multimedia clients?
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| 06:58 | <stgraber> ogra: while you are at it, can you also fix the "missing -updates and -security in chroot" one ?
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| 06:59 | <nubae> hundred or so
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| 06:59 | <ogra> thats not so easy, i already looked
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| 06:59 | <nubae> I have some in between systems too for primary school
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| 06:59 | <ogra> we'll need to modify the add mirror plugin
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> nubae, I would have imagined that was viable!!! :) I shouldn't complain anymore with just 8 clients! ;)
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| 07:00 | s/would/wouldn't
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| 07:00 | <nubae> well, u do need a hell of a lot of RAM and good dual or quad core xeon processors
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| 07:00 | and a fast drive with raid if possible
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| 07:00 | but not for 8 clients
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> I have quad + 4 Gb ram (in 32 bit ubuntu), no raid, and CPU usage < 10% in normal usage
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| 07:01 | But in wine or flash, cpu gets 100% for even 4 clients...
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| 07:01 | <nubae> yeah well, wine and flash are simply not meant to be run on the server
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| 07:01 | either local apps or fatclient
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| 07:01 | or they will bring down the network....
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| 07:02 | alkisg: did u see my plugin: http://nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid
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| 07:02 | <stgraber> ogra: hmm, right doesn't look that easy
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| 07:02 | <alkisg> Yeah, I had to install flashblocker and tell the students to use flash only one at a time...
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| 07:02 | nubae, looking...
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| 07:03 | <nubae> which reminds me, should the plugin go into Intrepid, ogra, stgraber?
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| 07:03 | or test some more and put into jaunty?
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| 07:04 | <ogra> nubae, we can put it into the extra-plugins like the mythtv one
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| 07:04 | nubae, but that requires extra dependencies we dont have, right ?
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| 07:04 | which is a bit tricky
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| 07:05 | <stgraber> and dependencies must be in main
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| 07:06 | (that's the good thing with ltsp-cluster our outside-PPA dependencies are all in main already :))
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| 07:06 | <nubae> right, though think I add universe and multiverse in the script itself
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> nubae, so the user accounts in the server are valid for the fat clients, just that when the admin adds new users, he has to update the chroot?
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| 07:07 | <nubae> no
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| 07:07 | <nubae> updating is done via a cron job every hour, and on restart of client
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> Oh, that's fine! Wish my clients had 256Mb RAM... :(
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| 07:08 | <nubae> but one can push the changes across with a script /etc/copyusers + restart client
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| 07:08 | ram is cheap... go buy some!
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> SDRAM is >50 euros for each 256 MB, but I can't even find it!
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| 07:10 | <nubae> 2nd hand shop?
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| 07:10 | I know a place here in Vienna sells old dims for next to nothing.. like less than 10 euros
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> I didn't find any that sells SDRAM... Cheap PCs with SDRAM, yes, but not just RAM
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| 07:11 | You're in Vienna? I was in Viener Neustadt in May!
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| 07:11 | <alkisg> Does this shop ship internationally? :)
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| 07:13 | <nubae> no, but I have to be close to there early next week, so I can see if they still have the ram
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| 07:14 | tft screens for ~50 euro too... great for grabbing stuff for thin client setups
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> Well if they do, I know many teachers here in greece that would be interested... So maybe something could be done.
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| 07:16 | <ogra> stgraber, how about using EXTRA_DIST for updates
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> Other question: why (in intrepid beta) doesn't update-manager *ever* close itself but just hangs in the "ldconfig deferred processing" phase?
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| 07:17 | <ogra> alkisg, likely a bug, i saw that too yesterday, but havent talked to mvo in #ubuntu-devel about it yet (feel free to do so)
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| 07:18 | <alkisg> ogra, I'll try, but I don't have the expertise to tell him exactly what's going wrong...
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| 07:18 | <ogra> you just did :P
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> heh
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| 07:19 | <ogra> i didnt even know it was in ldconfig :)
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| 07:39 | <ogra> stgraber, ok, we are missing the COMPCACHE by default change, the CONFIGURE_X being unset change (i cant push the latter upstream, compcache is now)
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| 07:39 | both need to get into the package somehow plus support for -updates
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| 07:42 | <nubae> one of my teacher reports a very strange problem... everyday at 12 and again at 3 there is a massive spike in memory and cpu usage
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| 07:42 | <ogra> cron ?
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| 07:42 | <nubae> nothing jumps out
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| 07:42 | <ogra> apt-get update run from update-manager probably
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| 07:43 | though that would only explain one of them
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| 07:46 | <nubae> that ldconfig deffered process thing is new... as of latest update
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| 07:47 | <alkisg> nubae, yes, I've just this morning installed a new server (intrepid beta), on the first update it didn't do it, but after this first update it does it...
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| 07:48 | <nubae> oooh new gimp, neat....
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| 07:48 | <nubae> alkisg: did u report a bug, I can add + 1 to it :-)
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> no, but here's one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/280236
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| 08:38 | <nubae> @books ltsp
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| 08:40 | @gg ltsp
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| 08:45 | <nubae> @g define:ltsp
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| 08:50 | <nubae> @g define:ltsp
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| 09:24 | <stgraber> ogra: how likely are we to get a second FFe for LTSP ?
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| 09:24 | ogra: that diff won't be huge and I don't like the idea of adding dpatch or similar thing unless it's necessary (as if the changes can't go upstream)
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| 09:25 | <ogra> well, the CONFIGURE_X one cant
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| 09:25 | until debian switched to Xorg 1.5
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| 09:25 | * ogra wonders if warren uses CONFIGURE_X=True by default | |
| 09:26 | <warren> ogra: I do? I don't even have a script that will do it.
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| 09:26 | <vagrantc> CONFIGURE_X=false has been working reasonably well in lenny, even.
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| 09:26 | <ogra> well, its set to true b default
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| 09:26 | by
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| 09:26 | <vagrantc> though all the X_* stuff probably won't work.
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| 09:26 | <ogra> the kayboard stuff will
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| 09:27 | as well as mouse settings for serial mice
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| 09:27 | both are not handled by xorg.conf
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| 09:27 | <vagrantc> i mean in lenny without all the hal magic
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| 09:27 | <ogra> still, warren added teh setxkbmap thing to ldm
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| 09:28 | so you wouldnt need hal anywy
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| 09:28 | <vagrantc> ah, right.
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| 09:28 | <warren> except the new X wont have any input without hal
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| 09:28 | stupid X
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| 09:28 | <ogra> and mice are handled by inputattach
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| 09:28 | warren, but setxkbmap to change the keymap settings will still work
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| 09:28 | and vagrantc doesnt have the new X yet
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| 09:28 | <warren> right
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| 09:29 | <ogra> thats why i was worried to set CONFIGURE_X=false by default
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| 09:29 | <stgraber> ogra: can't we check the X version and change CONFIGURE_X's default based on that ?
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| 09:29 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's easy enough to enable
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| 09:29 | <ogra> stgraber, if we can just drop it thats an easier change
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| 09:30 | <stgraber> sure
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| 09:33 | * vagrantc wonders why xprop doesn't have a -get corresponding to set | |
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| 09:33 | <ogra> isnt .get the default ?
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| 09:34 | <vagrantc> how do i get the value of a particular property?
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| 09:34 | <vagrantc> ah...
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| 09:35 | xprop -root PROPERTY
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| 09:35 | <ogra> right
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| 09:35 | <vagrantc> although it still outputs ... xprop -root LTSP_COMMAND
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| 09:35 | LTSP_COMMAND(STRING) = "bazbat"
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| 09:36 | be nice to just get bazbat ...
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| 09:37 | <ogra> so, do i comment the CONFIGURE_X setting code or should i drop the whole chunk ?
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| 09:37 | <vagrantc> -notype is almost there
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| 09:37 | don't see any reason to clutter it with comments
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| 09:38 | <ogra> ok
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| 09:38 | * ogra removes then | |
| 09:38 | * vagrantc experiments with running Xsession as a localapp | |
| 09:42 | <ogra> nubae, change 886 is probably worth to be mentioned in the docs
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| 09:48 | <nubae> change886?
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| 09:48 | <vagrantc> CONFIGURE_X != True by default
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| 09:48 | <ogra> well, unset
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| 09:48 | <nubae> ah 886 from ltsp bzr... ok
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| 09:48 | <vagrantc> hrm. xprop still returns 0 if the property isn't found.
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| 09:49 | <nubae> I'll change that... warren also wanted me to take out instructions for Fedora, as its still going through changes
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| 09:49 | <warren> nubae: leave it for the moment, I'll go ahead and change it myself later
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| 09:49 | <nubae> ok
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| 10:31 | <monteslu> anyone have 64bit firefox with flash working on 32bit clients?
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| 10:32 | <johnny> it possibly can
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| 10:32 | if you have nspluginwrapper
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| 10:32 | and if you use pulse.. you may or may not need libflashsupport.. depending on which version of flash
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| 10:33 | that is.. for sound
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| 10:33 | my clients have no speaker
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| 10:34 | <monteslu> I have nspluginwrapper, and made sure that libflasuppoprt is not installed
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| 10:34 | and pulse
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| 10:34 | using fedora 9
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| 10:34 | <johnny> it depends on the flash version
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| 10:34 | <monteslu> ok, I'll give the 10 beta a shot
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| 10:34 | 9 doesnt work
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| 10:34 | <ogra> falsh 9 needs libflashuppoprt
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| 10:35 | <monteslu> oh boy
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| 10:35 | <ogra> lubflustchappurt ... :)
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| 10:35 | <monteslu> 10 doesnt work
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| 10:35 | <ogra> labflashyport
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| 10:35 | <monteslu> i'll go back to 9 with libflashsupport
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| 10:36 | <ogra> you wont really notice the crashers anyway if you use nspluginwrapper
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| 10:36 | <ogra> at least in ubuntu it works fine
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| 10:37 | thats the only combo where it works fine in ubuntu actually :)
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| 10:37 | <monteslu> that's one more combo than I currently have working
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| 10:38 | man, still no go
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| 10:38 | <ogra> in ubuntu 32bit we dont have nspluginwrapper ... so the libflashsupport bugs make firefox crash
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| 10:38 | <nubae> gnash worked ok
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| 10:38 | on 64 bit
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| 10:38 | <ogra> without libflashsupport on pulse you dont have sound with flash9
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| 10:39 | <nubae> but its the reason I left 64bit... was way more trouble than its worth
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| 10:39 | <ogra> yeah
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| 10:39 | it definately isnt worth the trouble
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| 10:39 | <monteslu> warren told me to do it
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| 10:39 | :)
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| 10:39 | <nubae> hehe blame someone els :p
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| 10:39 | <johnny> flash 10 works here
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| 10:40 | <monteslu> johnny, 64 server?
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| 10:40 | 64 bit server rather
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| 10:41 | RAM manufucturers need to start leaning on Adobe. They're holding the world back
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| 10:42 | <johnny> they don't care until more people use 64bit windows
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| 10:43 | <ogra> well, there are 64bit atoms now
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| 10:43 | so i guess MS will react at some point
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| 10:43 | <johnny> sure.. but i bet they run 32bit xp 99.9% of the time :)
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| 10:44 | or will
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| 10:45 | <nubae> what would help is if hollywood started boycotting their products... the entire industry is linux based... and uses adobe products through wine heavily
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| 10:46 | <johnny> thatwon't be a problem tho ?
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| 10:46 | afaik
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| 10:46 | <nubae> they should just say, support linux or we move to gimp
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| 10:46 | <johnny> lol.. not until the gimp is easier to use
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| 10:46 | is gimpshop still around.. i wonder
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| 10:46 | <nubae> have u see latest one?
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| 10:46 | it is...
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| 10:46 | but now gimp is almost gimpshop
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| 10:46 | <johnny> i installed 2.6 just recently
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| 10:46 | <nubae> extremely similar, 2.6 is an amazing change in the right direction
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| 10:46 | <johnny> haven't opened it since
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| 10:46 | <nubae> really?
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| 10:46 | u werent impressed?
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| 10:47 | <johnny> ogra, gimp 2.6 in intrepid?
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| 10:47 | :(
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| 10:47 | <nubae> yes
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| 10:47 | * johnny bets not | |
| 10:47 | <johnny> oh
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| 10:47 | cool
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| 10:47 | <ogra> sure :)
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| 10:47 | <nubae> only as of a couple hours ago though
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| 10:47 | hehe
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| 10:47 | <johnny> i just said i haven't opened it since, haven't had any images to edit
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| 10:47 | can it do raw files natively yet?
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| 10:47 | <nubae> ah... ok, well it works great
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| 10:48 | <johnny> and when it does.. will we need ufraw and the like anymore? :)
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| 10:48 | <nubae> well, thats what cinepaint is for
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| 10:48 | <johnny> huh? i thought decent cameras nowadays did raw files?
| |
| 10:48 | not that i am a digital photo expert of ANY kind .,.
| |
| 10:49 | <nubae> cinepaint is for the professional photographer
| |
| 10:49 | <johnny> sure.. what what is for the amateur ? :)
| |
| 10:49 | with a camera does raw files
| |
| 10:49 | <nubae> as far as I can tell most cameras have the dcm
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| 10:50 | format
| |
| 10:50 | kodak, canon, sony all do that format
| |
| 10:51 | anyway, just been working with gimp and the new layout is lovely
| |
| 10:53 | <johnny> my users will be happy
| |
| 10:53 | i saw some lady trying to use the gimp.. and it was acting funny for her
| |
| 10:54 | it was reversing actions for no reason.. and the undo was not applying to every step
| |
| 10:54 | it was weird
| |
| 10:54 | * johnny awaits intrepid heavily | |
| 10:56 | <nubae> do u maintain the ubuntus at work?
| |
| 10:57 | <johnny> it's an ltsp setup
| |
| 10:57 | altho users use the server as the POS server
| |
| 10:57 | err workers
| |
| 10:58 | yes.. i maintain the ubuntu at the shop
| |
| 10:58 | i'm one of the worker owners
| |
| 10:58 | i just happen to be one of the techies
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| 11:02 | <nubae> heh
| |
| 11:03 | TheGuy has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:03 | <TheGuy> anyone have any idea why I try to login as a certain user and I get this error connecting to D-BUS system bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
| |
| 11:03 | <nubae> groups permissions?
| |
| 11:04 | <TheGuy> it works for everyone else in the same group
| |
| 11:04 | 47 other users
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| 11:04 | <nubae> same groups u mean, right?
| |
| 11:04 | <TheGuy> yeah
| |
| 11:04 | also when I su to this user and try to launch dbus manually I get: Failed to start message bus: Memory allocation failure in message bus
| |
| 11:05 | but if I su to another user and run dbus manually it runs
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| 11:05 | <nubae> and u googled that?
| |
| 11:05 | <TheGuy> yeah
| |
| 11:05 | nothing helped really
| |
| 11:05 | <nubae> @g Failed to start message bus: Memory allocation failure
| |
| 11:05 | <ltsplogbot> Apple - Support - Discussions - Terminal @ http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1739602&tstart=1 | Nabble - fink-devel - Failed to start me @ http://www.nabble.com/Failed-to-start-message-bus:-Memory-allocation-failure-in-message-bus-td19393426.html | Error running DBUS on ARM @ http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/dbus/2007-March/007189.html | [Fink-devel] Failed to start message bus @
| |
| 11:05 | http://www.mail-archive.com/fink-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg17825.html
| |
| 11:06 | <nubae> that second link seems pertinent
| |
| 11:07 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 11:08 | <TheGuy> any idea why gnome-keyring-daemon is kicking off or caring about D-BUS?
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| 11:09 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:09 | <nubae> not really... perhaps #ubuntu might have more help, since this isnt specifically about ltsp
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| 11:09 | <TheGuy> it's opensuse i'll try there
| |
| 11:09 | thanks
| |
| 11:09 | <nubae> but I'm just guessing
| |
| 11:09 | hehe
| |
| 11:10 | yeah thats a whole different kettle of fish
| |
| 11:10 | twinprism has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:11 | <nubae> sbalneav: u there?
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| 11:11 | TheGuy has left #ltsp | |
| 11:14 | <nubae> ogra: the X_CONFIGURE is not in the manual right now
| |
| 11:15 | <ogra> right, bit to change things like X_MODE etc you need it now
| |
| 11:16 | <nubae> can u give me a little more explanation on it, I'll add it now
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| 11:18 | japerry has quit IRC | |
| 11:19 | <ogra> X_CONFIGURE creates a xorg.conf
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| 11:19 | japerry has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:20 | <Gadi> er, CONFIGURE_X
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| 11:20 | <ogra> but Xorg 1.5 doesnt use xorg.conf anymore ... so by default we leave that out
| |
| 11:20 | right, Gadi is right
| |
| 11:21 | <Gadi> ogra: will Xorg 1.5 still produce one with X -configure?
| |
| 11:21 | <nubae> ok, so I put it just above the X_MODE and X_CONF and all that, explaining that it is required for users that want to set individual options for xorg.conf
| |
| 11:21 | <ogra> Gadi, yep
| |
| 11:23 | <Gadi> ogra: is compcache only in the newer ubuntu kernels?
| |
| 11:24 | <alkisg> So we need a CONFIGURE_X=True in order for X_MODE_0=1024x768, X_VERTREFRESH=50.0-60.0 to work? Does this apply to intrepid beta?
| |
| 11:24 | <nubae> If you want to be able to configure the individual settings of the X configuration file, without
| |
| 11:24 | having the X automatically configure the graphics card for you, you must enable this option. By
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| 11:24 | default this option is turned off. To turn it on do: CONFIGURE_X = True
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| 11:24 | <alkisg> nubae, thanks
| |
| 11:24 | <ogra> alkisg, yes, but you should first try withour it
| |
| 11:24 | <nubae> ogra: does that sound right?
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| 11:25 | <ogra> as Xorg is gotten a lot more intelligent
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| 11:25 | nubae, well, you dont need CONFIGURE_X for: mouse or keyboard settings
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| 11:25 | all others need it
| |
| 11:25 | <nubae> ok, I'll add that disclaimer, though it will just confuse people :-)
| |
| 11:26 | * vagrantc uses X_MODE_0 to get consistant size on classrooms with disparate hardware capabilities | |
| 11:26 | <alkisg> Well, I had problems with a ltsp lab I setup this morning, and I wonder if this was the problem... X wasn't starting on the clients, but if I ran it manually then I was able to see the "cross" cursor.
| |
| 11:26 | <vagrantc> choosing the best isn't always what you even want
| |
| 11:26 | <nubae> You don't need this option just for keyboard and mouse settings. It
| |
| 11:26 | corresponds to the graphic card options only.
| |
| 11:26 | * alkisg does that also! :) | |
| 11:27 | <ogra> vagrantc, yes, but first people should always try without xorg.conf now
| |
| 11:27 | <nubae> ogra: ?
| |
| 11:27 | <ogra> nubae, and monirtor options ...
| |
| 11:27 | <nubae> ok
| |
| 11:27 | <vagrantc> ogra: what about turning on CONFIGURE_X if the necessary settings are configured?
| |
| 11:28 | <ogra> vagrantc, hmm
| |
| 11:28 | <nubae> sounds like work
| |
| 11:28 | <ogra> thats not the point
| |
| 11:28 | i would really like to get rid of parsing the xorg.conf
| |
| 11:28 | <vagrantc> as more of those settings become possible to configure without configuring X directly
| |
| 11:29 | then it just starts to work properly...
| |
| 11:29 | * Gadi likes that idea | |
| 11:29 | <ogra> thats a lot of options though
| |
| 11:29 | <vagrantc> preserves backwards compatibility, too.
| |
| 11:30 | it's a fair number, yes.
| |
| 11:30 | <Gadi> also, need to know what version of Xorg is used
| |
| 11:30 | <ogra> and i'd like to have people *first place* using the wutoconfiguration
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| 11:30 | and only then start tweaking
| |
| 11:30 | <vagrantc> agreed
| |
| 11:30 | <Gadi> is this not distro-specificc?
| |
| 11:30 | <vagrantc> X version dependent ... not sure about distro
| |
| 11:31 | <Gadi> didn't ogra have to do a lot of fiddling with hal ?
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| 11:31 | <ogra> nope
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| 11:31 | <Gadi> and aren't hose tweaks only in ubuntu?
| |
| 11:31 | oh
| |
| 11:31 | <ogra> our X etam had :)
| |
| 11:31 | and debian has all our changes in experimental already
| |
| 11:31 | <Gadi> right - but will all distros on X 1.5 use hal?
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| 11:31 | <ogra> yes
| |
| 11:31 | <johnny> we will
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| 11:31 | <Gadi> and to the same extent?
| |
| 11:31 | <ogra> yes
| |
| 11:31 | <johnny> yes.. they have to :)
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| 11:31 | <ogra> upstream requires hal
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| 11:31 | <Gadi> oh ok
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| 11:32 | <ogra> the hal sided implementation might be distro dependent
| |
| 11:32 | <Gadi> could we set CONFIGURE_X=False if Xorg >=1.5?
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| 11:32 | <ogra> i.e. debian and ubuntu use /etc/default/console-setup as the base for keymap settings
| |
| 11:32 | other distros dont have that
| |
| 11:33 | <johnny> doesn't fedora and suse have console-setup ?
| |
| 11:33 | <ogra> so they will grab the values from elsewhere
| |
| 11:33 | <johnny> we don't
| |
| 11:33 | but that's ok
| |
| 11:33 | <vagrantc> i'm not sure we're actually making use of console-setup ...
| |
| 11:33 | on debian
| |
| 11:33 | but it's installed :)
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| 11:33 | <ogra> i think console-setup is a debian thing
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| 11:33 | or even ubuntu and backported to debian
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| 11:33 | <johnny> Gadi, i already set CONFIGURE_X=F due to configure-x.sh not working very well for me
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| 11:33 | <vagrantc> console-tools, kbd, console-setup ... aieee!
| |
| 11:33 | lets not forget console-data
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| 11:33 | <ogra> kbd is dead
| |
| 11:34 | err, no
| |
| 11:34 | xkb is dead
| |
| 11:34 | :)
| |
| 11:34 | console-data and console-tools are dead in ubuntu iirc
| |
| 11:34 | and debian might do that switch as soon as lenny is released
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| 11:34 | <johnny> so.. when will the silly nvidia people use xrandr :(
| |
| 11:34 | that's what we really need now :(
| |
| 11:35 | <Gadi> brb
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| 11:36 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 11:37 | <vagrantc> gah.
| |
| 11:37 | well, i've got my crazy "run-entire-session-as-localapp" stuff nearly working ...
| |
| 11:38 | just need to figure out a way to communicate when the session is ended ...
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| 11:38 | <johnny> drop kick it
| |
| 11:39 | <vagrantc> ltsp-localappsd backgrounds it, and then unsets the xprop for LTSP_COMMAND ... i need a way to conditionally tell it "don't unset it until LTSP_COMMAND is finished ..."
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| 11:40 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:40 | <alkisg> Guys, what's the difference between ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone packages? Only the dhcp-server? Because I've installed ltsp-server in a new lab this morning, and in the clients X doesn't start. I can manually logon to the clients and start it though, and see the X cursor...
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: You could do a "wait $PID && xprop..."
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| 11:40 | Morning all, BTW
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| 11:41 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: but it needs to be conditional ... normally, we want it backgrounded ...
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| 11:41 | <ogra> alkisg, which package version ?
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| 11:41 | <nubae> so ogra XFS is not supported in any distro anymore right?
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| 11:41 | <ogra> right
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| 11:41 | <vagrantc> how to distinguish between a "normal" localapp, and a "whole session" localapp
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: You gonna be around all this afternoon?
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| 11:41 | <alkisg> intrepid beta, original && also full updated (this morning)
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| 11:41 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: possibly, probably...
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| 11:41 | <nubae> sbalneav: Ive branched from your branch and will merge into trunks
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| 11:41 | <sbalneav> Ah, ok
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| 11:41 | <nubae> editing through vi of course =)
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| 11:42 | <ogra> alkisg, set CONFIGURE_X=False in lts.conf and try again ;)
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| 11:42 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: busy at work, i'm guessing?
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> ogra, I'll try on Monday (no access on weekends!), thanks! :)
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| 11:43 | <vagrantc> i've thought about using another x property ... LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT or something ...
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| 11:43 | <nubae> now that I'm editing the lts.conf variables, are there any new /outdated ones?
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| 11:44 | <Gadi> nubae: I don't think I ever added: LDM_USER_ALLOW
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| 11:44 | (which is new)
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| 11:44 | <nubae> k
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| 11:45 | <alkisg> nubae, is what you're writing online? Or you'll upload it all when it's finished?
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| 11:45 | <nubae> upload when I'm done... to ltsp-doc-trunks
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| 11:46 | <ogra> Gadi, do you have any expecience with L1730Sf touchscreens ?
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| 11:46 | <nubae> but there is a very similar version here:
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| 11:46 | !docs
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| 11:46 | <ltspbot> nubae: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> nubae, thanks
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| 11:46 | <Gadi> ogra: is that ELO?
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| 11:46 | <ogra> evtouch
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| 11:46 | <Gadi> no
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| 11:47 | i have only played with elo
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| 11:47 | <nubae> ldm_allow_user does what exactly?
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| 11:48 | <Gadi> LDM_USER_ALLOW allows the admin to limit access to a select group of usernames
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| 11:48 | LIKE: LDM_USER_ALLOW = alex,bob,carl,dave
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| 11:48 | <nubae> ok, so for a mixed server environment
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| 11:48 | <Gadi> no
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| 11:48 | for any environment
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| 11:49 | where there are some workstations that only certain users should use
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| 11:49 | Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC | |
| 11:49 | <nubae> OK, gotcha...
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| 11:49 | <Gadi> so, I could have a certain workstation identified by MAC in lts.conf with LDM_USER_ALLOW = alex so only alex can log in there
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| 11:50 | <nubae> right
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| 11:51 | <Gadi> multiple users are comma-separated with no spaces
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| 11:51 | as above
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| 11:51 | the absence of the variable means all users
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| 11:52 | setting to a non-existent user is effectively denying access to all
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| 11:53 | <nubae> heh
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| 11:53 | <ogra> and setting to "Gadi" gives everyone in ltsp-upstream root on your server
| |
| 11:53 | * ogra hides | |
| 11:53 | <Gadi> hehe
| |
| 11:53 | * Gadi wished he thought of that | |
| 11:54 | <nubae> that would be funny, a backdoor in ltsp
| |
| 11:54 | first get everyone to use ltsp, then sabotage them all
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| 11:55 | <ogra> well, we should at least thig abotu some nice easteregg
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| 11:55 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:55 | <ogra> an option that flips all client screens upside down or so :)
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| 11:56 | and scrolls the names of all contributors in front of it
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| 11:56 | (not upside down indeed)
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| 11:56 | <nubae> that would be fun indeed
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| 11:57 | how about on ldm login, if u dont put anything in and hit enter
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| 11:57 | :-) then people will be sure to see it
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| 12:02 | <johnny> as long as it doesn't break LDM_ALLOW_GUEST or whatever it is called now
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| 12:02 | <ogra> well, it would be a special option
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| 12:02 | and i think it should actually prevent you from doing stuff untl you unset it again
| |
| 12:02 | to make sure the toying doesnt interfere with actual work
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| 12:03 | EGGS_4_FREE=True in the default section :)
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| 12:03 | <nubae> u mean like EASTER_EGG = True
| |
| 12:03 | now who would think of putting that in?
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| 12:03 | :p
| |
| 12:04 | <ogra> nobody
| |
| 12:04 | did you ever try out the gnome eastereggs ?
| |
| 12:04 | <nubae> isnt someone supposed to discover an easteregg
| |
| 12:04 | no... the openoffice ones though I did
| |
| 12:05 | <ogra> alt+f2 ... enter "free the fish" (no quotes here)
| |
| 12:05 | or
| |
| 12:05 | <nubae> heh, oh yeah I have seen that one
| |
| 12:06 | <ogra> alt+f2 ... enter "gegls from outer space" (no quotes here)
| |
| 12:06 | <nubae> lol, I like that one
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| 12:06 | <ogra> as the name says, eastereggs are hidden :)
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| 12:07 | <nubae> yeah but, unfindable?
| |
| 12:07 | hmmm there is no LDM_AUTO_LOGIN in the docs either
| |
| 12:08 | * vagrantc can't wait to get bug reports about broken easter eggs | |
| 12:08 | <ogra> hehe
| |
| 12:08 | <nubae> make it complex enough and the egg will break :-)
| |
| 12:08 | especially on Suse
| |
| 12:09 | <vagrantc> nubae: LDM_AUTOLOGIN (boolean), LDM_GUESTLOGIN (boolean), LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLE (boolean), LDM_TIMEOUT_TIME integer
| |
| 12:09 | <nubae> oof.. ok, non of those are in there...
| |
| 12:09 | <vagrantc> i figured not
| |
| 12:09 | <nubae> I remember there was a bug with one of those, they all work?
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| 12:09 | <vagrantc> last i tried, they worked
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| 12:10 | <ogra> xrandr -y && sleep 5 && xrandr -o normal
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| 12:10 | <vagrantc> nubae: LDM_USERNAME (string), LDM_PASSWORD (string)
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| 12:10 | <ogra> trivial :)
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| 12:11 | <vagrantc> maybe be should rename LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLE to LDM_TIMEOUT ...
| |
| 12:11 | <stgraber> ogra: so, what's the plan ? upload one more new ltsp to Intrepid ?
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| 12:11 | Eghie has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:11 | <vagrantc> and LDM_TIMEOUT_TIME to LDM_TIMEOUT_SECONDS
| |
| 12:11 | <ogra> stgraber, up to you ... i will support your decision
| |
| 12:12 | <nubae> I'll put them as they are now then, right vagrantc or?
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| 12:12 | <ogra> (i.e. help fighting with slangasek if you want a FFe)
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| 12:13 | <vagrantc> nubae: put them as they actually are ... i'll put in backwards compatibility if we change them.
| |
| 12:13 | <nubae> ok
| |
| 12:14 | <vagrantc> ok, i've got a reasonable patch to run whole sessions as localapps... avoids all the need for pesky network auth :)
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| 12:14 | <nubae> XDM_SERVER... that still used?
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| 12:14 | <vagrantc> if you're using xdmcp
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| 12:14 | <nubae> ah right
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| 12:16 | F-GT has quit IRC | |
| 12:16 | <stgraber> ogra: let's make sure all the bugs we want to close in Intrepid are fixed upstream, then I'm fine doing one more package
| |
| 12:17 | <ogra> well, i pushed all changes that were missing from my last package i think
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| 12:17 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:18 | * nubae has a feeling intrepid will be the most stable LTSP Ubuntu yet | |
| 12:20 | <nubae> will LDM_AUTOLOGIN work without defining a user and pass?
| |
| 12:20 | or does it requrie LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD?
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| 12:20 | <stgraber> no
| |
| 12:20 | it requires at least LDM_USERNAME
| |
| 12:20 | <ogra> how should it ? :)
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| 12:20 | <stgraber> you can have an empty password though (for example if you use SSH key authentication)
| |
| 12:20 | <nubae> well, guestlogin kinda implies that
| |
| 12:20 | <stgraber> (I do that for ltsp-cluster autologin)
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| 12:22 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:22 | <nubae> for a normal user though without getting into the intricacies of ssh keys, they need password too
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| 12:22 | right=
| |
| 12:22 | ?
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| 12:22 | F-GT has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:23 | <nubae> and the user and pass are the machine name, right?
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| 12:23 | or was that for guestlogin?
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| 12:24 | <ogra> wow, #ubuntu-meeting is fascinating (at least if yoour client has proper utf8 support)
| |
| 12:24 | <johnny> i tried that once..
| |
| 12:24 | my user acounts got hacked
| |
| 12:24 | somebody ran an irc bouncer
| |
| 12:24 | had to switch to ssh keys
| |
| 12:24 | i wrote a script to handle ~/.ssh
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| 12:24 | when i cleared out all the profiles
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| 12:25 | <nubae> well cant u lock down the machine accounts?
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| 12:26 | without doing ssh keys?
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> nubae: actually, LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD default to the hostname of the thin client, so it doesn't require it
| |
| 12:26 | <stgraber> ogra: yeah, saw that too :) I was first wondering if my terminal was having some issues, then noticed it was just an ubuntu arabic meeting :)
| |
| 12:26 | <vagrantc> but you can also set up ssh keys
| |
| 12:26 | <nubae> ok so autologin does work without user and pass
| |
| 12:28 | <vagrantc> nubae: the only difference between AUTOLOGIN and GUESTLOGIN is that guest login displays the login screen, but includes a button to "kick in" autologin ... or logs in as whatever user is specified if the button isn't pressed
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| 12:29 | ATA_Dark_Shadow has quit IRC | |
| 12:31 | <stgraber> ogra: I'll just go through all the Ubuntu ltsp bugs checking for bugs with workaround/patch that should be fixed in Intrepid, if I don't see any I'll just package the current bzr
| |
| 12:31 | <ogra> stgraber, ok, poke me if i can help or dump anything into upstream
| |
| 12:32 | * vagrantc pushes vagrantc's crazy localapp login sessions | |
| 12:33 | <stgraber> I also have a small patch for ltsp-cluster that I'd need other ltsp guys approval before I push it
| |
| 12:36 | ogra, vagrantc, warren: Opinions ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/56051/
| |
| 12:37 | <ogra> stgraber, where is the source for getltscfg-cluster ?
| |
| 12:37 | <stgraber> that's a bit ltsp-cluster specific but it's the only change we do on upstream LTSP that we haven't merged yet
| |
| 12:37 | ogra: ltsp-cluster-client in ltsp-cluster (LP)
| |
| 12:37 | <laga_> what is ltsp-clusterß
| |
| 12:37 | <stgraber> it's an ugly shell script that performs queries to our control center component
| |
| 12:37 | <ogra> thats fine then, i'm not happy by calling the file /etc/ltsp/directory.conf though
| |
| 12:38 | thats very generic
| |
| 12:38 | <warren> stgraber: well, I haven't seen the entire architecture of ltsp-cluster yet
| |
| 12:38 | <ogra> warren, well, it will fire only if /etc/ltsp/directory.conf xists anyway
| |
| 12:38 | <johnny> directory.conf ?
| |
| 12:38 | <stgraber> hmm, you're right the name sucks
| |
| 12:38 | <ogra> so i dont really care about the binary for upstream
| |
| 12:38 | <stgraber> especially as the component was removed :)
| |
| 12:38 | <ogra> but the naming seems dangerous
| |
| 12:39 | someone might want to use that file for a distro specific slapd config with such a name
| |
| 12:39 | <warren> ogra: yeah, so on the surface I have nothing against it
| |
| 12:39 | <johnny> so.. getltscfg-cluster needs it's own binary ?
| |
| 12:39 | <ogra> i would make it more custer specific
| |
| 12:39 | <stgraber> what about /etc/ltsp/cluster-control.conf ?
| |
| 12:39 | <ogra> that sounds sane
| |
| 12:40 | <vagrantc> stgraber: why not "if [ -x /path/to/getltscfg-cluster ]; then ..." ?
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| 12:40 | <stgraber> ok, the server component is called ltsp-cluster-control so that name sounds better (it used to be called ltsp-directory)
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| 12:40 | <ogra> vagrantc, ++
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| 12:40 | thats even better
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| 12:40 | <stgraber> vagrantc: right, will do that
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| 12:42 | sepski has joined #ltsp | |
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| 12:42 | * vagrantc makes a commit to the command ogra doesn't even want to exist | |
| 12:43 | <stgraber> vagrantc: oh, you commiting ? I was about to commit the change, I'll just wait to avoid a LP conflict then :)
| |
| 12:43 | <vagrantc> stgraber: done.
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| 12:44 | <ogra> vagrantc, i want it to exist ... but on the client :)
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| 12:45 | i'm just complainint about the implementation details, not about the implementation itself :)
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| 12:46 | <stgraber> EVERYONE: Any issue with me tagging a new LTSP now ?
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| 12:47 | <ogra> not me
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| 12:52 | <stgraber> ogra: do we have a bug for CONFIGURE_X!=False ?
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| 12:52 | <ogra> no, that was a change i made before FF
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| 12:52 | <stgraber> ok, so regression from before FF
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| 12:52 | <ogra> a regressing from FF
| |
| 12:53 | i uploaded that package at FF day
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| 12:53 | <vagrantc> stgraber: no problem with tagging. though when you make your tarball, please do it from a clean export or something ... saw some editing cruft in the last tarball
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| 12:53 | <stgraber> ogra: for the Xubuntu thing, do we have a bug report ?
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| 12:53 | <vagrantc> ldm, anyways
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| 12:53 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I used the mkdst thing
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| 12:53 | <vagrantc> stgraber: --from-tag ?
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| 12:55 | <ogra> stgraber, for hardy, yes, it was fixed with the first intrepid upload in the package
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| 12:55 | staffencasa, one min
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| 12:56 | stgraber, ^^^
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| 12:56 | i'm just checking if we unlock the root account so it doesnt come up expired, i want that fixed as well
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| 12:56 | <stgraber> ok, I just had a look at LP and couldn't find the bug but I remember seeing it in Hardy
| |
| 12:56 | ogra: yeah, got that bugmail too :)
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| 12:57 | <ogra> i dont care aboru ask-rootpass, bt i know i had fixed it in hardy
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| 12:57 | <alkisg> ogra, I tried this morning (intrepid beta), it was unlocked (and --ask-rootpass worked)
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| 12:57 | <ogra> alkisg, well, beta had my package, stgraber missed some of my changes i didnt have committed upstream
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| 12:57 | <stgraber> ok, I also use it here and it works correctly (last I tried)
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| 12:58 | <ogra> ok
| |
| 12:59 | i thought i saw it as expired last time i checked
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| 12:59 | <nubae> sbalneav: I just commited to the main branch, and added in my revision that this was a merge from your branch where many changes had been made
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| 13:00 | hopefully thats ok, beause it wont show the revisions u did in the recent changes text
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| 13:00 | anyway it should be current now, maybe have a check that you can branch it
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| 13:03 | <laga_> ogra: so, configure-x.sh is not called anymore in intrepid?
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| 13:03 | siki has quit IRC | |
| 13:04 | <stgraber> laga_: except if you force CONFIGURE_X=True
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| 13:04 | <ogra> laga_, not by default
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| 13:04 | <laga_> okay, i will have to adjust mythbuntu-diskless for that
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| 13:05 | <ogra> just export it :)
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| 13:05 | its just an odd hackish script
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| 13:05 | and i want it to die asap
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| 13:05 | <laga_> export what?
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| 13:05 | * ogra hopes corg in jaunty will support driver settings through hal | |
| 13:06 | <ogra> *xorg
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| 13:06 | laga_, CONFIGURE_X=True
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| 13:06 | <laga_> ogra: ah, yes, but i think the path has changed, didnt it?
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| 13:06 | <ogra> somewhere in your initscript
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| 13:06 | the path ? for the variable ?
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| 13:07 | al i dropped was the default setting of CONFIGURE_X=True, its unset now
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| 13:07 | nothing else
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| 13:08 | <laga_> okay
| |
| 13:10 | <stgraber> ogra: compcache was enabled pre-FF too ?
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| 13:12 | <ogra> yes
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| 13:12 | there were three ubuntu specific changes i didnt have upstream
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| 13:12 | <stgraber> ok
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| 13:12 | * ogra gets pizza | |
| 13:12 | <alkisg> Where does nbd_swap actually swap? Server RAM or HD?
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| 13:13 | <ogra> hd
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> eeek...
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| 13:13 | <ogra> you can bind mount a tmpfs to where the swapfiles are created
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> ogra, what do I look for? (like man nbd)
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| 13:14 | <ogra> but be aware that this can indeed eat tons of server ram
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> I can't find documentation for nbd anywhere...
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| 13:14 | <ogra> look at nbdswapd
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> ogra, no problem, I got 3 gb on the server and only 64mb on the clients
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| 13:14 | ogra, thanks, bon appetite!
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| 13:14 | <stgraber> ogra: Does that sound scary enough to get the FFe: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56067/ ?
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| 13:14 | <ogra> thabks :)
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| 13:15 | stgraber, add (committed upstream) to the regression lines
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| 13:18 | <stgraber> ogra: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56068/
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| 13:18 | ogra: I had to change a bit the wording so the lines aren't split
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| 13:19 | <ogra> yef, pfounds bepper
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| 13:20 | (sorry, mouth full)
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| 13:21 | <sbalneav> Last night was a bad night. My dad had a low blood sugar episode, and I didn't get home 'till 12:30, and of course I was too bloody wired to get to sleep right away.
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| 13:21 | <ogra> oh man
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| 13:22 | <Lns> sbalneav: i'm sorry :(
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| 13:22 | <sbalneav> Ah, everything's AOK now.
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| 13:22 | So, I've fixed the segfault with cdpinger
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| 13:23 | <Lns> alkisg: how many clients do you have? Keep in mind if you have 256mb swap per client...that can add up quickly.
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| 13:23 | one of my client's HDD filled up right after I enabled nbd_swap :p
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| 13:23 | they had 35 clients
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| 13:23 | <alkisg> Lns, 8 clients, but right now performance suffers a lot
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| 13:24 | My server is new, quad core, 2x640Gb disks, 4 Gb ram (=3 in 32bit os)
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| 13:24 | <Lns> alkisg: that's gonna take 2/3GB out just for client swap....
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| 13:24 | alkisg: why not install -server kernel to get all 4GB?
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| 13:24 | <ogra> alkisg, if you buit it just now, you will miss the compcache love
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| 13:24 | try agan with the next upload
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> Can't I somehow use caching for that? I mean, if ram is enough, use it, else swap on normal swap file...
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| 13:25 | <Lns> alkisg: well you're swapping over the NETWORK anyway..i would think that's your bottleneck
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| 13:25 | <laga_> ogra: is the current ltsp package in ubuntu kep tin VCS? or do i just send a patch?
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| 13:25 | <Lns> i might be wrong, but that's what i would think
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| 13:26 | <alkisg> Lns, the clients also have some ancient hard disks, (10Gb), do you think I should use local swap?
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| 13:26 | <ogra> laga_, stgraber does it now
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| 13:26 | <Lns> alkisg: if you wanna partition the disks, sure.. but i think ogra is working on fixing the nbd_swap bug we found the other day, might not be worth the trouble
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| 13:26 | <ogra> for the mythbuntu plugin a patch is ok i guess
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| 13:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: local hard disk will swap much more cleanly.
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| 13:26 | <laga_> stgraber: ah, i'll redirect my question: is the current ltsp package in ubuntu kept in VCS? or do i just send a patch?
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| 13:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc, thanks, I'll do that
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| 13:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and fast.
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| 13:27 | <ogra> alkisg, really, wait until compcache is enabled agai, it will raise your clent ram by default without external needs
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| 13:27 | * ogra goes afk now | |
| 13:27 | <alkisg> ogra, OK, I'll try both! :P
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| 13:28 | <stgraber> laga_: not in VCS yet, but I guess I'll upload it to LP soon
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| 13:29 | laga_: what change would you like ? I'm preparing an upload for Intrepid
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| 13:31 | <Lns> What's compcache?
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| 13:31 | <laga_> stgraber: a small fix for the mythbuntu plugin. when are you going to upload?
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| 13:31 | <Lns> ah, nm http://code.google.com/p/compcache/
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| 13:32 | <stgraber> laga_: now
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| 13:32 | <laga_> stgraber: ah, hold on a minute please :)
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| 13:33 | * vagrantc wonders when compcache will hit debian | |
| 13:33 | <vagrantc> is compcache just integrated directly into the kernel on ubuntu?
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| 13:34 | <stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ find /lib/modules/2.6.27-6-generic/ | grep compcache
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| 13:34 | /lib/modules/2.6.27-6-generic/kernel/ubuntu/compcache
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| 13:34 | /lib/modules/2.6.27-6-generic/kernel/ubuntu/compcache/compcache.ko
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| 13:34 | /lib/modules/2.6.27-6-generic/kernel/ubuntu/compcache/tlsf.ko
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| 13:34 | <vagrantc> most out-of-kernel modules on debian are in separate packages.
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| 13:35 | <stgraber> it's in linux-image-2.6.27-6-generic but we got rid of of ubuntu-modules in Intrepid
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| 13:35 | that's very likely an out-of-kernel module that you could easily package using dkms
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| 13:36 | * Lns wonders if compcache is stable enough to use at v0.4 | |
| 13:39 | <laga_> stgraber: http://laga.ath.cx/lts_conf_fixes.diff
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| 13:39 | stgraber: but wait a few minutes please, i need to do a test build
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| 13:39 | <vagrantc> looks like there's an ITP for compcache on debian...
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> Lns, so I can just install linux-image-2.6.27-6-server (on intrepid) and my kernel will see all 4 Gb, even though it will still be 32bit?
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| 13:43 | <vagrantc> stgraber: have you uploaded 5.1.27 anywhere yet?
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| 13:43 | <Lns> alkisg: i can't vouch for intrepid, but yes :) I always install -server kernel on my i386 hardy installs to get all 8GB on my servers
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> Lns, wow, I guess with all the windows-not-seeing-all-4-gb talks, I forgot I'm using Linux now... :D
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| 13:44 | <Lns> (uses PAE)
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> I guess this means a little overhead, but for one extra Gb, no problem! :)
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| 13:45 | <stgraber> vagrantc: no
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| 13:45 | <Lns> alkisg: that's what i say too
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| 13:45 | <stgraber> laga_: ok, tell me when it's tested
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| 13:45 | vagrantc: just pushed the revision to LP but haven't uploaded the new package anywhere as I'm waiting for laga_'s patch
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| 13:46 | <laga_> stgraber: changelog entry: * mythbuntu-diskless: explicitly install xfce4-terminal
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| 13:47 | * mythbuntu-diskless: fix lts.conf generation
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| 13:47 | (still building)
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| 13:48 | <Lns> And now for some comic relief - http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54
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| 13:49 | <stgraber> laga_: ok
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| 13:49 | <laga_> Lns: "i'm all about open sores. changed my love life" - what?
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| 13:50 | <Lns> laga_: sores... :p
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| 13:50 | <stgraber> vagrantc: why ?
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| 14:02 | <Lns> Yikes...nbd_swap files don't like to get cleaned up.... root@binkleyubuntu:/tmp# ls -l tmp.*|wc -l 97
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| 14:05 | <laga_> stgraber: okay, please upload the patch
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| 14:05 | it should be safe. i can't test properly now due to unrelated breakage
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| 14:06 | <Lns> 13G total - this is completely filling up my hdd :( swap is only at 128mb, too
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| 14:06 | <stgraber> laga_: ok
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| 14:06 | <vagrantc> stgraber: oh, just lookin to do an upload, and if there's already an tarball uploaded to ubuntu, i usually just grab that.
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| 14:09 | <stgraber> laga_: test building the package here, if it's ok I'll ask for a freeze exception
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| 14:09 | <laga_> stgraber: feature freeze exceptions?
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| 14:09 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:10 | <stgraber> yeah, I'm pushing a new LTSP
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| 14:10 | <laga_> ah. ok
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| 14:23 | <stgraber> ogra: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/281415
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| 14:53 | <Lns> ogra: any word on the nbd_swap/ltsp-client-setup script bashism fixes? Is this in any way related to swap files sticking around if a client crashes/reboots? I've got a site with 97x 128mb swap files and it's filling up the HDD on a daily basis
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| 14:53 | (there are only 35 physical clients there)
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| 14:59 | <stgraber> doh, just got the password expired issue ...
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| 14:59 | this one was fixed last I checked
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| 15:00 | if [ "$ROOTPASS" = "prompt" ]; then
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| 15:00 | $CHROOTEXEC $ROOT passwd -l root
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| 15:00 | fi
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| 15:00 | vagrantc: ^
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| 15:00 | Am I wrong in thinking that the above locks the root password when we choose to set it ?
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| 15:00 | shouldn't that be != "prompt" ?
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> stgraber: indeed, indeed.
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| 15:01 | stgraber: sorry about that.
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| 15:02 | <stgraber> ok, I change the logic and tag a new release.
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> i just changed it quick and didn't really test.
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| 15:02 | it was previously a -z test
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| 15:02 | so if ROOTPASS was set to "true" or something like that ...
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| 15:03 | <johnny> Lns, buy a bigger HD
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| 15:03 | <Lns> johnny: yeah, that'll buy me about a week's worth of time...
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| 15:03 | <vagrantc> stgraber: and i just downloaded the orig.tar.gz from the bug report ... *sigh*
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| 15:04 | <johnny> Lns, delete em at night?
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| 15:04 | <Lns> johnny: ugh
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| 15:04 | not entirely elegant solution, now is it :)
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| 15:05 | <johnny> no
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| 15:05 | i don't know what's causing it
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| 15:05 | so i can't propose a real solution
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| 15:06 | <ltsppbot> "Lns" pasted "ltsp-client-setup script - swap portion" (46 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/29
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| 15:07 | <johnny> huh?
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| 15:07 | <Lns> From here (not sure if it's handled anywhere else too) it doesn't look like there's any cleanup mechanism at all
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| 15:07 | <johnny> why are you pasting it
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| 15:07 | it shouldn't be cleaning up there should it?
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| 15:07 | <Lns> why not?
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| 15:07 | <johnny> shouldn't it be cleaning up on the server? and reusing existing files?
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| 15:08 | <Lns> I would hope so - but what mech. is responsible for that?
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| 15:08 | <johnny> look at the nbdswap stuff on the server
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| 15:10 | <stgraber> vagrantc: doing a test rebuild just to make sure, I'll then push .28
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| 15:15 | <stgraber> vagrantc: new tarball attached
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| 15:22 | <Gadi> Lns: if you kill the nbd-server procs, then nbdswapd will exit prematurely and not clean up
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| 15:22 | Lns: are you killing procs by cron job?
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| 15:22 | <Lns> Gadi: no...i just enabled nbd_swap this week and am experiencing these problems
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> do you kill nbdrootd procs?
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| 15:23 | or nbd* procs?
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| 15:23 | by cron job?
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| 15:23 | <Lns> I've been manually deleting the files and killall-ing nbdswapd and nbdrootd
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| 15:23 | <Gadi> well, the killing part will leave swap files
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| 15:23 | if you kill, you should delete
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| 15:23 | but best not to kill
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| 15:24 | <johnny> Gadi, why can't it reuse existing files?
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| 15:24 | <Lns> Gadi: yeah, i get that part but the thing is even if i don't touch the server, the swap files pile up
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| 15:24 | <johnny> instead of making new ones?
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| 15:24 | <Gadi> johnny: the files are random filenames
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| 15:24 | for security
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| 15:24 | <johnny> should they be?
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| 15:24 | you think?
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| 15:24 | <Gadi> only the running process knows which file goes with which proc
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| 15:24 | <Lns> Gadi: there's swap encryption code in ltsp-client-setup that would take care of the security aspect..
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> Lns: not completely
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| 15:25 | <johnny> not the issues he's talking about
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> that secures the data in transit
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| 15:25 | <Lns> ah
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| 15:25 | <Gadi> not /tmp symlink redirects
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| 15:26 | if a hacker should do: ln -s / /tmp/myfile
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| 15:26 | and we do: mkswap /tmp/myfile
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| 15:26 | bad things happen
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| 15:26 | or worse: dd if=/dev/zero of=$SWAP bs=1024k count=$SIZE 2> /dev/null
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| 15:27 | <johnny> put them somewhere other than tmp? :)
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| 15:27 | somewhere that only nbd can write to?
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| 15:27 | <Gadi> that is writable by user nobody?
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| 15:27 | <johnny> change the user
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| 15:27 | to nbd
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| 15:27 | <Lns> Gadi: ok, security aside - what about cleanup? i don't see any timeout functionality by default even though there's functionality in nbd-server...although the manpage doesn't say whether it removes the files, just the procs get killed
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| 15:27 | <Gadi> # clean up the swap file
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| 15:27 | rm -f $SWAP
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| 15:28 | <Lns> Gadi: where is that?! =p
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> last line of /usr/sbin/nbdswapd
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| 15:28 | <Lns> ah jeez
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| 15:28 | :p
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> thats why when you kill the proc it doesnt get executed
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| 15:28 | <johnny> Gadi, he wasn't killing the proc tho
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| 15:28 | <Lns> yea
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| 15:28 | <johnny> not until it was already leaving a bunch
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| 15:28 | <Gadi> well, the proc only dies after 2 hours
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| 15:29 | so, you will have lingering files for 2 hours
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| 15:30 | in theory
| |
| 15:30 | unless u tell me that tcpd is killing nbdswapd and not just nbd-server
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| 15:30 | in which case, that would be a bug worth fixing
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| 15:32 | perhaps we should set nbd-server timeout to a time less than 2 hours
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| 15:32 | <Lns> Gadi: i'm not sure really what's going on, all I know is that since 2 days ago (last time I touched the server) there were 97x 128mb swapfiles in /tmp. There are 35 total clients in the computer lab.
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| 15:32 | <Gadi> instead of indefinite
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| 15:32 | <Lns> So *something* isn't cleaning up correctly, even after 2 hours.
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| 15:33 | <Gadi> Lns: try adding: -a 3600 to the nbd-server line in nbdswapd
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| 15:33 | and see if that fixes things
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| 15:33 | oh, wait
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| 15:33 | we have NBD_SERVER_OPS
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| 15:34 | cool
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| 15:34 | <Lns> whaaa?
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| 15:34 | =p
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| 15:34 | <Gadi> try:
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| 15:34 | echo "NBD_SERVER_OPTS=\"-a 3600\"" >> /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf
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| 15:35 | and see if that fixes things moving forward
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| 15:35 | <Lns> mmk
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| 15:35 | <Gadi> that should cleanup idle connections after an hour
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| 15:35 | <Lns> Gadi: well lemme set it to something smaller so i can test here at my office
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| 15:36 | <Gadi> ok
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| 15:36 | its in seconds
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| 15:36 | so, try 30
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| 15:36 | <Lns> k
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| 15:38 | <Lns> ok first i'm going to cleanly shut the client down
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| 15:38 | woa
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| 15:38 | umm
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| 15:38 | my swapfile just got created, then disappeared (sitting at ldm)
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| 15:39 | maybe i should kick up the timeout ;p
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| 15:39 | <Gadi> well, there's the rub
| |
| 15:39 | because we only call nbdswapd on boot
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| 15:39 | <Lns> ?
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| 15:40 | <Gadi> so if the machine stays on for longer than your timeout, and swap is idle, you will lose your swap until reboot
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| 15:40 | <Lns> ah
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| 15:40 | <Gadi> we need to distinguish between idle because of power off
| |
| 15:40 | versus idle because of inactivity
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| 15:40 | <Lns> well that sure doesn't make much functional sense since potentially there will be any number of people sitting on a session, leaving their desk for X number of minutes/hours...
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| 15:41 | yea
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| 15:41 | <Gadi> or, we need to repeatedly call for nbdswap
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| 15:41 | while the terminal is on
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| 15:41 | (this is a chronic problem in client/server systems)
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| 15:41 | no pun intended
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| 15:41 | <Lns> IANAP but I'd think that monitoring the session itself would be cleanest
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| 15:42 | <Gadi> client monitoring or server monitoring?
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| 15:42 | <Lns> maybe a gnome-watchdog type thing
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| 15:42 | server monitoring client
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| 15:42 | <Gadi> hmm... maybe
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| 15:42 | <Lns> see i'm sure we'll keep running into these things until we have something solid to rely on for client state
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| 15:43 | <Gadi> but, the server is ill equipped to distinguish between a client that is on and one that is unreachable
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| 15:43 | <Lns> gnome-watchdog won't do it (unless we modify it to watch the specific swapfile) since its owner/group is nobody/nogroup
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| 15:43 | <johnny> well.. why can't nbd use it's own user acount ?
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| 15:43 | and then name the files to be reusable
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| 15:44 | <Gadi> but what would trigger your watchdog?
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| 15:44 | <johnny> no need to trigger a watchdog if it could just pick up and reuse the file?
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| 15:44 | <Gadi> do you not want swap before logging into a session?
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| 15:44 | * Lns agrees with johnny that reusing files would be best | |
| 15:44 | <Gadi> how do you ensure that you delete the correct file?
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| 15:44 | <johnny> no need to delete anything..
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| 15:45 | <Lns> Gadi: well with gnome-watchdog the gnome-panel process is the "main" process that triggers it
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| 15:45 | <johnny> is there some simple security concern i'm missing?
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| 15:45 | <Gadi> so, create a swap file for every workstation regardless of if it is used?
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| 15:45 | <johnny> only if NBDSWAP is on
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| 15:45 | <Gadi> and never delete
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| 15:45 | maybe
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| 15:46 | <johnny> i think the tradeoff is much better with that
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| 15:46 | <Lns> that might work...or maybe if client mem >= XX%, launch nbd_swap
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| 15:46 | i dunno
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| 15:46 | <Gadi> of course, there is no nbd user
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| 15:46 | <johnny> uhmm.. we can make one
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| 15:46 | it's not very hard.. :)
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| 15:47 | <Gadi> this is true
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> what is the proposal?
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| 15:47 | <johnny> vagrantc, more like brainstorming
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> the problem is the nbd swapfile deletion issue?
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| 15:47 | <Gadi> to keep swapfiles in /var for nbdswap owned by a special user
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| 15:47 | <johnny> vagrantc, create a user and a directory owned by the users and allow sweap file reuse
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> or the lack of deletion...
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| 15:48 | <Gadi> vagrantc: ot appears to be broken
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| 15:48 | <johnny> instead of deleting on a timeout
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> swap file re-use is not a good idea security-wise...
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| 15:48 | <Lns> vagrantc: my issue is the non-deletion of /tmp/tmp.* swapfiles
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| 15:48 | <johnny> well.. we can still delete them
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| 15:48 | when the client does properly lgout
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> although, network swap isn't a good idea security-wise, either.
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| 15:48 | <Lns> lol
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| 15:48 | <Gadi> johnny: you mean shutdown not logout
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| 15:48 | * johnny thinks nothing is good security wise | |
| 15:49 | <johnny> Gadi, sure
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| 15:50 | we can still make a best effort to handle such things
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| 15:50 | <Gadi> perhaps we have a better scripting tool at our disposal
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| 15:50 | <johnny> you would say that wouldn't you..
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| 15:50 | :)
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| 15:52 | <Gadi> is there a way to issue a write command to swap space?
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| 15:52 | does anyone know?
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| 15:52 | * Lns doesn't | |
| 15:53 | <Lns> i'm sure ther eis something..i mean, normal RAM cleanup will swap out unused portions to swap
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| 15:53 | <laga_> swapon/swapoff?
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| 15:53 | <Lns> right?
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| 15:53 | <laga_> well, that's not a smart idea, ignore me
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| 15:53 | <Lns> laga_: that'd be a bit unstable i think :)
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| 15:54 | <Gadi> I am thinking combining an idle timeout on nbd-server with a periodic write to swap on the client
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| 15:54 | that way, when the client is off the timeout times out
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| 15:54 | but not when it is on
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| 15:54 | <Lns> Gadi: that would probably be the cleanest
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| 15:54 | <laga_> why don't you *read* from the block device?
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| 15:54 | <Gadi> ah, or read
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| 15:55 | but how?
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| 15:55 | <laga_> gotta make sure it's not cached, but that's doable i guess
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| 15:55 | Gadi: dd if=/dev/nbdswap
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| 15:55 | <Gadi> perfect
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| 15:55 | so periodically: dd if=/dev/nbdswap of=/dev/null bs=1 count=1
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| 15:55 | <laga_> there are ways to enforce it to read from the device w/o caching
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| 15:55 | <Gadi> or some such
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| 15:56 | <laga_> O_DIRECT might work
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| 15:57 | <Gadi> I leave the rest as an excercise for the reader ;)
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| 15:57 | *exercise
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| 15:57 | <Lns> Gadi: if we do that, say, every 5min... we can also make the 2 hour thing much less, thus making cleanup much more effective
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| 15:57 | <Gadi> Lns: u bet
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| 15:57 | in fact, might want something similar for nbdrootd
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| 15:58 | <Lns> for sure
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| 15:59 | i don't want to get ahead of this specific thing now..but couldn't we use this method to create psuedo-state client monitoring?
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| 15:59 | not necessarily via nbd
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| 15:59 | but a custom method
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| 15:59 | that's always on by default
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| 15:59 | like a real watchdog
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| 16:00 | <Gadi> well, this would monitor if a client is on
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| 16:00 | <Lns> right
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| 16:00 | <Gadi> not if a session is running
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| 16:00 | but, it is a good scheme for that
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| 16:01 | <Lns> and if/when someone logs in, a secondary run of that..so you get both client-state and session-state
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| 16:02 | * Lns thinks there MUST be something already for this that can be easily integrated into ltsp | |
| 16:09 | <Lns> I think gnome-watchdog is a good start to building something like this, and it seems to work great for cleaning up processes, but it's too limited. If we integrate what we're talking about with swap into gnome-watchdog and make it more generalized (ltsp-client-watchdog?) we can use that functionality for any number of future issues. We just need to build on the concept and make it see user session state vs. client state.
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i've been down this road, and apparently it didn't work....
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| 16:10 | the whole dd directly thing...
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| 16:10 | <Lns> like what Gadi/laga were discussing w/periodic 1byte writes
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc> the -a timeout option is borked.
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| 16:10 | <Gadi> I dont see the need for watchdog at all
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| 16:10 | simply preventing a timeout
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> http://bugs.debian.org/409531
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| 16:12 | does setting in /etc/hosts.allow:
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| 16:12 | nbdswapd: ALL: keepalive
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| 16:12 | not work?
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| 16:12 | or is it just too slow?
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| 16:12 | <Lns> Gadi: why don't you see the need for a watchdog?
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> stgraber: actually, the whole passwd -l thing could be fixed with a call to chage to unset the expiry time ...
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| 16:14 | <Gadi> Lns: do you have an nbdswapd line in /etc/hosts.allow
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| 16:14 | ?
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc> i've definitely tested the keepalive option in the past, and it took a couple hours, but did eventually time out
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| 16:16 | <Lns> Gadi: no, i just saw a thread w/that in it actually too
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| 16:16 | <Gadi> ah, there you go
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| 16:16 | <Lns> http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg34885.html
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| 16:16 | is this in hosts.allow by default in newest versions?
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| 16:16 | <johnny> it should be..
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| 16:16 | since hardy
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| 16:17 | <Lns> mine only has nbdrootd: ALL: keepalive
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| 16:17 | hardy w/hardy-updates
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| 16:17 | <johnny> oh
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| 16:17 | for swap
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| 16:17 | i guess you do need both
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| 16:17 | <Lns> yup
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| 16:17 | <johnny> that should be in the default
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| 16:17 | <Lns> lemme test that
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| 16:18 | * Gadi needs to run | |
| 16:18 | <Gadi> happy hacking, all
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| 16:18 | * Lns waves to gadi | |
| 16:18 | <Lns> thanks =)
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| 16:18 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 16:20 | <Lns> "And now, we play the waiting game." -Peter Griffin
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| 16:22 | vagrantc: nope! my swap just got nuked w/no activity, even with keepalive in hosts.allow
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| 16:22 | <vagrantc> Lns: you still have -a in the nbdswapd ?
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| 16:22 | <Lns> nbdswapd.conf yes
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| 16:22 | <vagrantc> DON'T USE -a with nbd-server.
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| 16:23 | <Lns> -a 120
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| 16:23 | <laga_> WHY
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> IT'S TOTALLY BROKEN.
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| 16:23 | <Lns> oooook :)
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| 16:23 | had it in there from earlier..
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| 16:23 | re-testing now
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| 16:24 | <vagrantc> http://bugs.debian.org/409531
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| 16:24 | ^^ that mentions almost everything people have been talking about for the last good long while
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> i should request an update to the manpage and/or the removal of the option ...
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| 16:27 | <Lns> aah.. ok, sorry i didn't realize the implications of that thing
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| 16:28 | ok it's definitely sticking around now, cool.
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| 16:29 | now lemme just turn it off
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> To enable local swapping, do I have to (1) create a swap partition, (2) enable the local disks (http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#AEN1296) and (3) set LOCALDEV=True in lts.conf?
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> alkisg: (1) and (4) set USE_LOCAL_SWAP=True
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc, that's all? ok :)
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| 16:37 | I thought the "clients don't have access to the hard disks" also included the swap partitions!...
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| 16:38 | <vagrantc> that's LOCALDEV stuff
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| 17:01 | <Lns> Just created: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/EnableNBDSWAP - Can someone verify everything is in there and correct?
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| 17:43 | <Lns> ogra: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/281498 FYI
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| 17:44 | <stgraber> vagrantc: well, I guess the question is why do we lock the root account at all ? What'd happen if we just don't set it at all ?
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| 17:50 | <Lns> vagrantc: also just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/281501 FYI..hope all is correct there
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| 18:06 | <vagrantc> stgraber: then users can log into the console as root without a password.
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| 18:07 | i guess i haven't tried it recently ... but that's how it used to be.
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| 18:08 | * vagrantc is experiencing swap trhashing ... | |
| 18:11 | <vagrantc> that's the last time i try to import 470 more keys into my gpg keyring ...
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| 18:16 | <stgraber> vagrantc: well, I don't get the same error with the account locked as I get with Ubuntu without a root password. I'd need to see how it's done in Ubuntu
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| 18:16 | root:!:14146:0:99999:7:::
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| 18:17 | that's what we have in Ubuntu for root
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> stgraber: looks like it's locked by default for ubuntu, then.
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| 18:17 | <stgraber> root:!:14146:0:99999:7::1:
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| 18:17 | that's when it's locked
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| 18:18 | <vagrantc> debian reverted a change where passwd -l also sets account expiry dates as well
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| 18:18 | sounds like ubuntu still has that
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| 18:28 | <stgraber> sbalneav: ok, looking at your patch now. As it's bugfix only I won't even need a FFe for Intrepid. For hardy you'll still have to go through the SRU process but that should be made easier with .2 being released in January.
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| 18:35 | sbalneav: and I have a good test candidate for it :) (a co-worker who's complaining about it crashing on his no-so-thin client at home)
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| 18:42 | <stgraber> sbalneav: failed to build, looking at the code now
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| 19:26 | <warren> monteslu: ping
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| 19:26 | monteslu: are you using the standard fedora firefox and nspluginwrapper?
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| 19:26 | monteslu: with all fedora updates?
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| 19:26 | monteslu: does flash work on the X login of the terminal server itself?
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| 19:30 | monteslu: oh, is this firefox as a local app?
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| 20:15 | <moldy> hi
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| 22:02 | <monteslu> warren, pong
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| 22:02 | yeah all standard
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| 22:02 | not as a local app
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| 22:03 | <monteslu> didnt try flash on the server itself
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| 22:03 | which combination of versions with 64bit did you get to work?
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| 22:06 | I'll try it on the server this weekend.
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| 22:07 | Oh, also. Seems like all users get the yum update notifications
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| 22:08 | guess I could just remove whatever applet that is
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| 22:45 | <warren> monteslu: oh, you're probably missing nspluginwrapper.i386
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| 22:45 | monteslu: it is not installed by default
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| 22:45 | monteslu: you need both archs of nspluginwrapper for it to work
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| 22:55 | <powellc> I am trying to boot a ppc client off of an i386 server and have got it down to where it looks for the root. It complains about not being able to mount a whole bunch of filesystems before choking up on /sbin/init
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| 22:55 | <monteslu> warren, ok. I'll try that out. I'll follow up on the list as soon as I get it working.
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| 22:56 | 512MB is sketchy for local apps?
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| 22:57 | that's all my ntavo's can do, and they're less than two years old
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| 22:57 | i think i can only do 256 on my t150s
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| 23:38 | <warren> monteslu: have you looked at how much RAM firefox alone uses?
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| 23:39 | monteslu: normal desktops use firefox by using virtual memory on their local hard drives
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