IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 October 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:05 | <WebSeeker_> Hey jammcq long time no see
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| 07:52 | <Blinny> Congrats, LTSP5 & Ubuntu folks
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| 07:52 | And thank you
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| 07:52 | <ogra> :)
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| 08:23 | <jammcq> helloooooooo
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| 08:23 | * ogra waves | |
| 08:24 | <jammcq> ogra: congrats on the new release. I think your hard work will pay off nicely
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| 08:24 | <ogra> hopefully :)
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| 08:24 | thanks :)
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| 08:26 | <Guaraldo> Hey, jammcq... Is everything Ok?
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| 08:26 | <jammcq> hey Guaraldo things are great
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| 08:27 | sbalneav has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:27 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:28 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: I was thinking about get LTSP-BR Project closer to LTSP... What do you think about creating a subdomain like br.ltsp.org?
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| 08:28 | !s
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| 08:28 | <ltspbot> Guaraldo: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:28 | <Guaraldo> How are you doing, sbalneav?
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| 08:30 | <jammcq> Guaraldo: sure, we could try something like that. but what about ltsp.org.br ? or just ltsp.br ?
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| 08:30 | Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:30 | <sbalneav> Morning jammcq!
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| 08:33 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: In Brasil, .org.br endings are privative to non-governamental institutes or associations. So there is a sort of documentations needed to register it...
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| 08:35 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: We wold need to create an Association with non-lucrative intention, register this association, wait the documentation to be ok, after that we could register the domain...
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| 08:35 | jammcq: Too mutch burocracy...
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| 08:36 | <Guaraldo> I'll call the voluntairies and if everyone feels ok, we can do that, but the domain wold be with us in a year or more... :-/
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| 08:37 | many non-governamental institutes in brasil prefers to use .org domains...
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| 08:47 | <jammcq> so how about ltsp-br.org ?
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| 08:47 | just throwing out ideas
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| 08:58 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: Yes... we aready use ltsp-br.org (in renewing process).
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| 09:00 | jammcq: If you think it's close enought... It's ok to me...
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| 09:00 | <jammcq> Guaraldo: I'm most interested in what's easy
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| 09:00 | no point in spending alot of time on this
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| 09:01 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: Ok...
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| 09:05 | <Blinny> Can you specify a path for ltsp-build-client , for example if you're working with another /opt/ltsp/? directory than i386 ?
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| 09:06 | <sbalneav> BASE=/foo/bar ltsp-build-client
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| 09:09 | <ogra> ltsp-build-client --extra-help
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| 09:09 | -b or --base :)
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| 09:10 | <Blinny> Thanks guys
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| 09:10 | I have two subnets.
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| 09:22 | <cliebow_> ogra: i am certain the hard work will pay off !!!
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| 09:26 | sbalneav: do you know who is doing the work on resara?? thin client solution?
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| 09:35 | <rjune> morning guys
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| 09:38 | <sbalneav> Resara? Never heard of it
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| 09:42 | <Blinny> What did the SECURE flag in lts.conf finally get named?
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| 09:47 | <sbalneav> What secure flag?
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| 09:47 | <Blinny> The one you were working on - SSH encryption of the traffic
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| 09:47 | <ogra> LDM_DIRECTX
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| 09:47 | <Blinny> LDM_SECURE or something?
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| 09:47 | Ah. Gotchya.
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| 09:47 | Thanks
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| 09:51 | <Gadi> morning, guys
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| 09:52 | ogra: which town do you live in again? (we have a new German intern, and I want to sound soewhat intelligent)
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| 09:52 | (of course, /me needs help)
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| 09:52 | <ogra> Kassel
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> are the birds singing in Kassel this morning?
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| 09:53 | *were
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| 09:53 | ;)
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| 09:53 | <ogra> indeed
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| 09:53 | they sang the ubuntu release song :)
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> congrats on release day
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| 09:53 | :)
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| 09:53 | <ogra> thanks :)
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> wie grietz
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| 09:54 | (sp?)
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| 09:54 | :)
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| 09:54 | * Gadi is trying to learn... | |
| 09:54 | <ogra> Gadi, for edubuntu the credits go to sbalneav as much as to me this tiem btw :)
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| 09:54 | wie geht's
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> ah
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| 09:55 | <ogra> to go -> gehen
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| 09:55 | <Gadi> btw: on a less OT note, I noticed a whole bunch of video bug issues wrt gutsy + AMD LX chipset
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| 09:55 | any idea on the progress there?
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| 09:55 | <ogra> how goes it -> wie geht es
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| 09:55 | <Gadi> ah...
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| 09:55 | makes sense
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| 09:56 | <ogra> no idea about amd, sbalneav and Q-funk were on that though
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| 09:56 | <Gadi> yeah, it took me a long time before I understood that "veismeer" = "vay es mir" ;)
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| 09:56 | <sbalneav> The org driver is , quite frankly, broken.
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| 09:56 | <sbalneav> It crashes when you do an autoconfig.
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| 09:56 | <ogra> sbalneav, but there was a working driver
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| 09:57 | one of them worked fine iirc
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| 09:57 | we could probably have some packages in a ppa of these
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| 09:57 | * Gadi checks the ppa | |
| 10:00 | <sbalneav> Not as far as I know.
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| 10:01 | <ogra> i thought it worked in the beginning
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| 10:01 | when it was first put nto debian
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| 10:36 | <rjune> Gadi!
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| 10:37 | <Gadi> rjune!
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| 10:43 | <rjune> how are ya mate?
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| 10:44 | when ogra says wie geht's, tell him es is mir gut
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| 10:48 | <sbalneav> Thought it was zehr gut
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| 10:48 | <rjune> zehr gut is very good, es is mir gut translates to everything is well
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| 10:48 | that is of course assuming I still remember my german
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| 11:03 | <Gadi> rjune: how was ur OSS hoe-down?
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| 11:06 | <cliebow_> sbalneav:resara is a project coming out of N.H. thin client...tftp download of kernel..nfs mount..but a pretty cool thinclirentmanager interface called
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| 11:06 | <rjune> Don't think I'm going, everybody else is out to trade shows and somebody has to hold down the fort
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| 11:06 | <cliebow_> akipio learncaster..
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| 11:06 | <rjune> :-(
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| 11:06 | Gadi: you going?
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| 11:08 | <Gadi> I thought it past
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| 11:08 | er, passed
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| 11:08 | in the past
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| 11:08 | that is
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| 11:08 | :)
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| 11:13 | <cdealer> hey
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| 11:15 | <cdealer> [ogra]:: Hi. I just downloaded Ubuntu 7.10 Server Edition and want to know if after buil the ltsp client if it will automaticly install a graphical user interface or I will have to install by myself ?
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| 11:16 | because with 6.10 server there are no gui
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| 11:16 | <ogra> you need to install that manually
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| 11:16 | <lns> apt-get install ubuntu-desktop still, right?
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| 11:16 | <ogra> there is no gui on the 7.10 server either ... only edubuntu has both (desktop and ltsp)
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| 11:16 | right
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| 11:17 | <cdealer> Hmm
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| 11:17 | [ogra]:: but I must install the gui before build the clients ?
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| 11:17 | <ogra> that doesnt matter
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| 11:17 | the gui needs to be in place if you want to log in :) ...
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| 11:17 | when you install it is up to you
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| 11:18 | <lns> cdealer, the client chroot is mainly for booting and connecting to the server's X client
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| 11:18 | <cdealer> Hmmm
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| 11:19 | I will install now and any problems I come back =) thanks for now
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| 11:19 | <cdealer> [ogra]:: just an off question, to install gnome is simples as apt-get install gnome2 ?
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| 11:20 | <ogra> gnome-desktop-environment i think
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| 11:20 | but i'd really take ubuntu-desktop
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| 11:20 | to get all thebells and whistles :)
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| 11:21 | <libmandan> Hi all. I have a new 4.2 instal on Etch. Everything seems fine except that it takes 45 -60 seconds for firefox to open. I have other servers running 4.1 on sarge and firefox comes up in less thatn 5 sec. Any ideas?
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| 11:21 | <cdealer> [ogra]:: but the server isnt more robust to production enviorements (damn word lol) ?
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| 11:21 | <ogra> i meant the ubuntu-desktop package to install the desktop :)
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| 11:22 | <cdealer> haha
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| 11:22 | <ogra> the basic system is the same on server and desktop installs though
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| 11:22 | <cdealer> sure, what was I thinking lol
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| 11:22 | [ogra]:: whats the big deal about the server version them?
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| 11:22 | <ogra> thats why i would always build my ltsp servers on top of a desktop install
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| 11:22 | saves a lot of extra work
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| 11:23 | the new server CD has additional install variants ... like vserver, webserver. LAMP, db server etc
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| 11:24 | and it installs the server kernel flavor which is able to allocate more ram than the -generic one the desktop cd uses
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| 11:24 | <sbalneav> libmandan: If you log in on the console, does it take 45 seconds?
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| 11:24 | <ogra> thats about the only advantage in using the server CD here
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| 11:24 | <lns> I know that when I tried installing the desktop 64-bit version on an HP Proliant ML370G5 it wouldn't recognize the NIC... only the server edition did
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| 11:25 | cuz of the server kernel
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| 11:25 | <cdealer> Hmm
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| 11:25 | this is interesting point
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| 11:25 | <lns> ogra, but what's weird is that on all of my installs, it ends up throwing the generic kernel on the server. I had to manually install the server kernel after the install was complete to get my NIC going
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| 11:25 | <paul0> is it possible to use ltsp with wireless cards?
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| 11:26 | <cdealer> I will be deploying in a server box with about 16gb of ram and four quad processor and 2 gb nic
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| 11:26 | <ogra> given that you can just install linux-image-server i'd still use the desktop CD to save me the time for installing ubuntu-desktop
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| 11:26 | <sbalneav> paul0: With an awful lot of work, yes. But you wouldn't be happy with the results.
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| 11:26 | <lns> ogra, hmm....great insight!
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| 11:26 | <ogra> cdealer, there the server kernel makes sense
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| 11:26 | <libmandan> shalneav: It comes up on the console right away
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| 11:26 | <paul0> sbalneav, why? will be slow?
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| 11:27 | <lns> ogra, can you boot the server kernel from the desktop install cd via grub?
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| 11:27 | <ogra> paul0, you need to hack up initramfs
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| 11:27 | <sbalneav> libmandan: Then check the users .xsession-errors, see if there's any errors in there .
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| 11:27 | <ogra> to have the wireless tools and drivers
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| 11:27 | <sbalneav> paul0: slow, yes.
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| 11:27 | <lns> cdealer, I also prefer the server install because it doesn't boot to a livecd environment, although I think you can do the same with a switch
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| 11:27 | <sbalneav> Also, you can't pxe boot from a wireless card
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| 11:28 | <ogra> and wil have to have scripts to set up the encryption and everything
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| 11:28 | <paul0> hum
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| 11:28 | <sbalneav> So you have to store the kernel/initramfs locally.
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| 11:28 | <ogra> right and you need a bootCD or usb key
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| 11:28 | (floppy wont suffice for nowadays kernels)
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| 11:28 | <cdealer> [ogra]:: the thing is that for now im testing on a p4 with 2gb of ram box ... Well .. I will install the server version to see what happens... starting get prepared when install on the production server box... and btw it will be a 64bits
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| 11:29 | <ogra> cdealer, really take the desktop CD for installing the production server ...
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| 11:29 | it will save a lot of extra work and possible headdache ...
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| 11:29 | <cdealer> yeah, just read the last line
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| 11:29 | <sbalneav> I use the desktop cd for all my server installes.
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| 11:29 | <cdealer> hehe
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| 11:30 | [sbalneav]:: you said something about booting pxe wirelless cards?
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| 11:30 | <libmandan> sbalneav: There are a bunch of ALSA lib error. I do no need sound on the clients. Is there a way to disable sound in lts.conf?
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| 11:30 | <ogra> cdealer, he said its not possible
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| 11:30 | <cdealer> its that already possible ?
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| 11:30 | <sbalneav> You can't.
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| 11:30 | <lns> lol
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| 11:30 | <sbalneav> At least, I've never seen a wireless card that could pxe boot.
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| 11:30 | <lns> that would be so cool
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| 11:30 | it'd have to have a pretty hefty bootROM though i bet
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| 11:30 | <ogra> would be a quite compleyx protocol
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| 11:31 | <sbalneav> libmandan: SOUND=False
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| 11:31 | <cdealer> [sbalneav]:: yeah, we had dreaming about pxe wirelless card.. our solution here are being to install bridges
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| 11:31 | <sbalneav> That's what a lot of people do.
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| 11:32 | <cdealer> [sbalneav]:: yeah, was the only solution we found
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| 11:32 | <lns> bridging as in...?
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| 11:32 | <cdealer> each bridge is dealing with 4 to 6 thinclients
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| 11:32 | <paul0> ogra, where i can find documentation about wireless cards and ltsp?
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| 11:33 | <cdealer> [lns]:: thinclient --> pxe to bridge
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| 11:33 | <paul0> ogra, there's nothing in the official documentation
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| 11:33 | <lns> cdealer, OH gotcha
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| 11:33 | <ogra> paul0, because it wont work and nobody implemented it yet
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| 11:33 | <cdealer> [lns]:: to the thinclient the bridge is transparent and the bridge is already configured with the network details
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| 11:35 | <paul0> ogra, good point
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| 11:36 | <libmandan> sbalneav: I just set SOUND=N in lts.conf. It eliminated the ALSA errors but still 50sec to start ff.
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| 11:37 | <sbalneav> No idea then
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| 11:37 | <libmandan> Thanks -
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| 11:37 | <cdealer> [sbalneav]:: I will download and install the 7.10 desktop version, now I think I will have no problem, my test box is a simples desktop box.... but when I go to the server box with scsi, lot of ram, quad processors and stuff what wont work on the desktop version that i will have to fix ???
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| 11:38 | <ogra> libmandan, did you try to log in locally on the server to make sure its really ltsp related ?
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| 11:39 | <sbalneav> cdealer: Don't know. It should probably all work, if not, probably just install the -server kernel.
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| 11:39 | The scsi should work anyway
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| 11:39 | Worst that may not work is that it may not see all the ram.
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| 11:40 | <cliebow_> sbalneav:you ever play with tinyos: and ":motes" which wake up and transmit wirelessly??
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> I have 5 gigs on my servers, and all I have to do is install the desktop, then install the -server kernel, and everything works fine then.
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| 11:40 | cliebow_: No, sorry.
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| 11:40 | <cdealer> [sbalneav]:: this server kernel you are saying is a pre-compiled one in the ubuntu cd? I cant just recompile the current kernel and activat the more ram option ?
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| 11:42 | <sbalneav> Pre compiled. Package name is linux-image-server
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| 11:42 | Why would you EVER want to re-compile a kernel.
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| 11:42 | I haven't done that for years :)
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| 11:43 | <cdealer> [sbalneav]:: hahaha Im from slackware ... Im used with this already LOL
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| 11:43 | <cliebow_> sbalneav: i was just thinking about the pxe/wireless ltsp...
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| 11:44 | <cdealer> [cliebow_]:: if you at any time make it work without bridges please let me know =D
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| 11:44 | <sbalneav> Use the distro supplied ones: much easier to get support, and they've done all the hard work for you.
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| 11:44 | <cdealer> [sbalneav]:: sure
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| 11:45 | <Blinny> cdealer: You'll need to install ubuntu-desktop to do graphical X things on on the clients if you use the server version.
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| 11:46 | <sbalneav> I don't see wireless LTSP as ever being aything worth spending any development time on. The amount of effort required is astronomical, and there's such an easy solution for it by just using regular thin clients + wireless bridge. If you can afford to go wireless, you can afford the few extra bridges.
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| 11:48 | <cliebow_> sbalneav:i suppose you are right...sigh...
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| 11:48 | <cdealer> [Blinny]:: wow... i think you have a bit of lag lol
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| 11:48 | <Blinny> cdealer: Yeah. It's called lunch.
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| 11:48 | <cdealer> hehe
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| 11:49 | <Blinny> cdealer: Anyway, unless you install ubuntu-desktop then your clients will only boot to a console and won't be able to log in.
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| 11:49 | <ogra> nope, they will boot to X
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| 11:50 | but he wont get a login since /etc/X11/Xsession points nowhere
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| 11:51 | <Blinny> ogra: Huh. Mine never booted to X. Maybe that was a separate issue.
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| 11:51 | <ogra> likely
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| 11:51 | the X on the client is totally independent of whats installed in the servers root
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| 11:52 | <Blinny> That's what I thought.
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| 11:52 | ..until it didn't get to init 5 -- I'm sure my memory is missing a step.
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| 12:17 | <cdealer> in gutsy anything changed in the lts.conf?
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| 12:29 | <sbalneav> Few things
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| 12:29 | Check out the edubuntu handbook for details
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| 12:33 | <sgonzalez> Yikes! Big issue (for me at least :)... please help!! With the help of a friend, I found out that I was running the generic kernel on edubuntu 7.04, thus only seeing 3GB of my 6GB of RAM. So we installed the server kernel, ran updates, etc. On a server that we really weren't crashing on at all, we started crashing like crazy (2-3 times/day). I put the generic kernel back in, and we're back to functioning fine. Any thoughts?! I could really use some he
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| 12:33 | <sgonzalez> lp here! Thanks.
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| 13:00 | <Blinny> sgonzalez: Bad RAM? We'll need more information that "crashing like crazy" (;
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| 13:00 | sgonzalez: Unfortunately, I have to work in another location. BBL.
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| 14:11 | <Q-FUNK> We have a release! woooooooooohoooooo!
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| 14:15 | sbalneav: congratulations! we made a clean Edubuntu install on one machine today and, assides from having to manually configure X, it works like a charm on the ThinCan. :)
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| 14:16 | <sbalneav> Cool!
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| 14:17 | I wonder if we can supply a patched version of -video-amd
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| 14:17 | with your fix, so at least it'll come up in 800x600
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| 14:17 | <Q-FUNK> bryce said that we could probably get it accepted, if we find and fix the bug.
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| 14:18 | but only as a patch, not as the full new upstream released as an update
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| 14:18 | yes it will, but that's only eliminating a null pointer.
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| 14:18 | <sbalneav> Well, that's better than nothing :)
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| 14:19 | <sbalneav> Your patch that you have of just returning early if the flag's been set seems like a good interim solution to me.
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| 14:20 | <Q-FUNK> indeed so, but Anti was telling me today where the real problem and solution would be. he just doesn't have time to implement it now.
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| 14:30 | <Q-FUNK> would you happen to know any X guru with the motivation to try and fix this cleanly and to upgrade -amd up to the latext X core, including RandR 1.2 support?
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| 14:31 | <Gadi> Q-FUNK: hey, there. I ran across this issue testing the thincan the other day, too
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| 14:31 | <Q-FUNK> I mentioned it yesterday at our quarterly team meeitng and the company is willing to pay an outsider to do it, as we're currently short on staff, with one guy having just left us for a too-good-to-turn-down dream job
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| 14:32 | <Gadi> have you posted what needs to be implemented somewhere to fix?
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| 14:32 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: sbalneav posted a fairly extensive amount of logs to document the bug and one guy at work at least partially figured out the solution
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| 14:33 | <Gadi> does "Anti" have notes as to where the real prob lies?
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| 14:33 | and are those the comments on launchpad?
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| 14:33 | * Gadi saw the bug | |
| 14:34 | <Q-FUNK> I pasted verbatim his report on the bug
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| 14:34 | <Gadi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-amd/+bug/140051
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| 14:34 | <Q-FUNK> he further explained this morning that at least fixing that null pointer would prevent the crash, but not directly fix the real issue, which is failing to DDC the correct max rez.
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| 14:35 | ah, btw, we just got the first batch of gigabit-capable boards on Monday :)
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| 14:36 | we'r ecurrently updating the LinuxBIOS image with the correct payload to support the VIA Velocity.
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| 14:36 | <Gadi> nice
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| 14:37 | and do you know when the problem was introduced?
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| 14:37 | <Q-FUNK> we think it's related to the new X core
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| 14:37 | <Gadi> is it because of the new xorg autodetectiong or is it because of new driver code?
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| 14:37 | ah
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| 14:37 | <Q-FUNK> the new RandR broke a bunch of drivers that were not updated to support the new X
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| 14:37 | <Gadi> lovely
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| 14:39 | <Q-FUNK> it's the downside of modular X: if the team behind a specific driver is small or only at the random involvement level, their driver can easily fall behind, one API feature at a time, until it plain no longer works at all.
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> let me shake some trees and see what falls out
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| 14:40 | <Q-FUNK> the X team is aware that this new RandR breaks multiple displays and a bunch of other things, but they decide to release it anyhow, promising to get around polishing it before the next release in 6 months.
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| 14:41 | of cours,e it also requires people behind each chip driver to pull their own weight and keep their driver in sync with X core ABI/API changes.
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| 14:42 | <Gadi> I see you working closely with Jordan Crouse
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| 14:42 | is he able to do anything?
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| 14:42 | <Q-FUNK> he is but his main gig is being paid to code drivers for the OLPC
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| 14:43 | he is assigned by AMD on the OLPC project to provide any driver support they need.
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| 14:43 | <Gadi> does olpc use lx?
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| 14:43 | * Gadi thought they did | |
| 14:44 | <Q-FUNK> they do, but in a fixed rez, etc.
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| 14:44 | <Gadi> is it just that they use an older X version?
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| 14:44 | ah
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| 14:44 | so, your patch helps him
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| 14:44 | but developing a proper driver does not
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| 14:44 | let me see if I can find someone who can do such things
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| 14:45 | <Q-FUNK> developing a proper driver helps him too
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| 14:45 | he's open to merging useful code upgrades and cleanups
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| 14:45 | just that the driver already does what he needs for OLPC
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> since we have oneof ur units, we're half-way there
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| 14:45 | right
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| 14:48 | goota run..
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| 18:48 | <lns> hey, is NBD_SWAP a valid lts.conf entry? if so, is it the same/different as USE_NBD_SWAP ?
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| 19:06 | <jammcq> hey all
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| 19:07 | <lns> what's up jammcq!
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| 19:07 | <jammcq> hey lns
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| 21:18 | <dtrask_> sbalneav: Hey....followed your lead and bought a System76
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| 21:19 | sbalneav: comes tomorrow....very excited ;-)
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| 22:18 | <Ziroday> HELP, I can't get LTSP to work
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| 22:19 | <boog> what's wrong?
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| 22:19 | <Ziroday> Its says its not recieving any DHCP or BOOTP offers
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| 22:19 | however everythings connected
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| 22:20 | <boog> are you getting this message from the client?
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| 22:20 | <Ziroday> es
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| 22:20 | s/es/yes
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| 22:21 | <boog> can you confirm that dhcpd is running on the server
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| 22:21 | <Ziroday> one minute
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| 22:21 | btw, im using edubuntu 7.04
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| 22:22 | <boog> are you running the server edition?
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| 22:22 | <Ziroday> yeah
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| 22:22 | <boog> is dhcpd running?
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| 22:22 | <Ziroday> yes DHCP is running
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| 22:23 | <boog> just a second...
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| 22:23 | <Ziroday> sure
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| 22:26 | <boog> did you follow the guide on edubuntu page?
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| 22:27 | joebake1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:27 | <Ziroday> yes
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| 22:29 | <boog> do you have two nics on your server?
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| 22:30 | <Ziroday> yes
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| 22:30 | <boog> do you have a router on your network that is doing dhcp?
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| 22:30 | <Ziroday> o
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| 22:30 | *no
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| 22:30 | except the server
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| 22:32 | <boog> ok. forgive me for asking, but are you sure the nics are connected properly to the switch?
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| 22:33 | what are the addresses of the nics (sudo ifconfig)
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| 22:36 | You can test if a server is running by typing this command into the shell:
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| 22:36 | ps aux | grep dhc
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| 22:40 | you still there Ziroday?
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