IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 19 January 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> Eeewww /usr/share/upstart/sessions ???!!! Putting things in /etc/xdg/autostart is not enough anymore, we need distro-specific code?
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| 06:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, i must say, i find that lenny doesn't work anymore as almost good news :P
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| 06:52 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 06:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: though it won't really be feasible to backport 5.5 to squeeze ...
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> Ah... why so?
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| 06:53 | It'd be nice to have it in archives in the future
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| 06:53 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, using the official backports infrastructure
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| 06:53 | alkisg: typically only backports from one release to the next ... i.e. backports for squeeze come from wheezy
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| 06:53 | alkisg: backports for wheezy come from jessie
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| 06:53 | <alkisg> Aaaah ok
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| 06:54 | So you can't have wheezy backports go to squeeze :P
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| 06:54 | <vagrantc> though sometimes there are "sloppy" archives that allow other stuff
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> OK ok forget it it's not that significant
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| 06:54 | <vagrantc> dunno if those are enabled or not
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> The most difficult thing was compiling ldm
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| 06:54 | <vagrantc> of course, you can always publish an unofficial repository
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> I bet ltsp 6 will be super-easy to backport anywhere...
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| 06:55 | <vagrantc> that would be once nice benefit
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| 06:55 | alkisg: didn't get to the ltsp 5.5+ update yet
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| 06:56 | alkisg: not sure when i'll have a chance... kind busy this week
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| 06:56 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no problem we have days left till 14.04 stops importing from debian
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| 06:56 | And I want to solve a couple of things more
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| 06:56 | nbd-disconnect being one of them...
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| 06:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: might not be able to get to it till february, honestly
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| 06:57 | <alkisg> The code was wrong, it was looking for nbdroot, and we were using root=/dev/nbd
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| 06:57 | I fixed it, and now that it's running, it prevents people's systems from shutting down?!!!
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| 06:57 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 06:57 | * vagrantc always found nbd-disconnect to be suspicious | |
| 06:58 | <alkisg> vagrantc: 16 February 6th Debian Import Freeze
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| 06:58 | <vagrantc> is it importing from jessie or sid?
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| 06:58 | <alkisg> If you and stgraber can have a newer ltsp in trusty till then, it's fine, if not, I don't mind, I have my ppa - I'll just stop supporting people here that are using ubuntu and don't have the greek schools ppa in their sources :p
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| 06:59 | I think LTS releases import from testing, and non lts from sid
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| 06:59 | So, jessie
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| 06:59 | <vagrantc> although i suspect stgraber can manually request an import from anywhere
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| 06:59 | but obviously, the sooner the better
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> It's just bureaucracy... :)
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| 07:00 | Btw if debian ends up preferring systemd over upstart, I'll decide that I want to switch to debian for most of my systems :D
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| 07:00 | <vagrantc> i should be able to dedicate some time the first few days of february, or maybe even get in an upload the week before
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| 07:01 | * vagrantc finds the whole discussion silly | |
| 07:01 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ok if you can, ping me a couple of days before, to do some last minute uploads + testing
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| 07:01 | upstart breaks a lot of things in my user sessions
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| 07:01 | So while I don't care about the discussion, I do care about what they end up choosing...
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| 07:02 | <vagrantc> people talk about sysvinit like the sky is falling or something
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| 07:03 | * vagrantc is concerned all the dozens of init systems will just be passing phases | |
| 07:03 | <alkisg> I think systemd got too spread into various other projects to get removed from them any time soon...
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| 07:03 | <vagrantc> basically, i'll adapt to whatever's decided for Debian
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| 07:04 | <alkisg> And ubuntu just doesn't have the manpower to maintain half-systemd and half-upstart solutions
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| 07:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: which is the sort of anti-social coding I don't want to support
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| 07:04 | it's an insidious sort of vendor lock-in
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| 07:05 | <alkisg> True. But they're at least active part of upstream for most of those projects.
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| 07:05 | <vagrantc> *anyways
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| 07:05 | *
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| 07:05 | alkisg: get in your fixes in ltsp-trunk as soon asn possible!
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> I'll try... but those left need much testing
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| 07:06 | <vagrantc> just in case i find a spare few hours to upload
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> So do allow me until the next weekend if you can
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| 07:06 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 07:07 | i think my last tests at least covered your ltsp-update-kernels changes
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> Everything ok there?
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| 07:07 | <vagrantc> seemed to be, if my memory serves well :)
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> I didn't update /usr/share/ltsp/cleanup.d/50-vmlinuz though, it's on my todo list
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| 07:08 | * vagrantc wants to generalize the image-to-ram feature | |
| 07:08 | <vagrantc> i.e. AOE/NBD whatever
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> Does it currently check the mount method?
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| 07:10 | <vagrantc> it's all hard-coded to root=/dev/nbd0
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> Ah, we don't include the script functions there so 'panic' is unknown
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| 07:10 | <vagrantc> could probably generalize it by checking root=/dev/nbd|root=/dev/ether/ with a case statement or something
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| 07:11 | <alkisg> Aaaah right.... stat can show the device
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| 07:11 | <vagrantc> nbd-client -d exists
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| 07:12 | can check /proc/cmdline for root= and parse that, unless it's available as a variable...
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> It's silly that nbd doesn't have a proper mount wrapper like nfs
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| 07:12 | So that plain unmount can disconnect it
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| 07:13 | <vagrantc> sounds like a wishlist bug
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| 07:14 | of course nbd is currently failing to build on *all* 32-bit architectures :(
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| 07:15 | fix apparently in the works...
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> Haha... and I was waiting for the authfile fixes to upload them to the ppa...
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| 07:16 | <vagrantc> yeah, wait a little longer :)
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| 07:18 | alkisg: so basically 5.5.0 breaks grub because it's not able to extract the version from the symlinks?
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| 07:18 | alkisg: seems like that'd be good to fix in grub
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| 07:18 | <alkisg> Yes, grub fails
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| 07:19 | True, but it'd be hard to backport the fix everywhere
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| 07:19 | And I've already sent ltsp 5.5 to all 12.04 school installations
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| 07:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you've patched it to work? or you've just broken it everywhere?
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| 07:20 | i could just upload a new 5.5.0 with that patched, at least...
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| 07:20 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2539
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| 07:21 | You mean now?
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| 07:21 | <vagrantc> maybe tomorrow
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> OK, good enough
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| 07:22 | I'll try to upload the most pressing fixes today
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| 07:22 | <vagrantc> it's an "important" if not release-critical bug, given that it can make a system unbootable.
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> Well only ltsp-pnp systems, but yeah
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| 07:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm talking about just updating with 2539 patched in the packaging, and leaving alll the other stuff for later
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| 07:23 | <alkisg> (and they just select another proper entry from grub)
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| 07:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, that's why it'd be important
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| 07:23 | alkisg: rather than definitely release-critical
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| 07:24 | alkisg: i.e. leaving the other stuff for 5.5.1
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> vagrantc: why not upload 5.5.1 instead?
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| 07:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: more changes == more testing
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> And iiiiif there's time and enough commits, you could upload 5.5.2 later...
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| 07:24 | OK, but they're not that many
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| 07:24 | <vagrantc> it's true
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| 07:25 | i'll need to test all those pointless translations!
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> Hahaha
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| 07:25 | Basically I'd like to fix cleanup.d/50-vmlinuz and nbd-disconnect today, those are the pressing ones
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| 07:25 | So, 8 commits to test
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| 07:26 | <vagrantc> well, if you got them done, i *might* have time to upload tomorrow or monday...
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> I'll try!
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| 07:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc: why did you say that the nbd-disconnect logic is suspicious?
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| 07:27 | Do you think I should just delete it?
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| 07:28 | The idea is, disconnect nbd-client in the last moment, and use sysrq to shutdown after that
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| 07:28 | It works fine everywhere that I tested, but I get reports that in some systems it doesn't shut down...
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| 07:30 | Although, I liked the "lazy disconnect" idea much more, where nbd-client sends a message to nbd server to automatically disconnect after e.g. 1 minute
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| 07:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it seems very prone to race conditions, no?
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> The problem is the temporary swap files...
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| 07:31 | I don't see why though... processes are supposed to get a TERM signal
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| 07:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i.e. it's relying on a binary loaded from the NBD root filesystem to shutdown the nbd connection...
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> I hook that, disconnect nbd, and do the sysrq
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| 07:31 | nbd-client is surely accesible *before* nbd-client -d
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| 07:32 | The system needs to read it from nbd, before it runs it, and disconnects nbd
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| 07:32 | So it can't have a race condition there
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| 07:32 | <vagrantc> i guess so
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| 07:32 | <alkisg> There might be a race condition on the term signal,
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| 07:32 | <vagrantc> as long as it works ...
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| 07:32 | and kills things fast enough
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| 07:33 | <alkisg> where nbd-client get the TERM signal from upstart etc before nbd-disconnect
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| 07:33 | <vagrantc> i.e. if the "nbd-client -d" failed for some reason...
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| 07:33 | <alkisg> Then, sure, nbd-disconnect won't be able to read nbd-client...
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| 07:33 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, the newer code started introducing problems after you fixed it to not hard-code root=/dev/nbd0?
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> Yup. Basically before fixing it, it wasn't running at all for anyone
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| 07:34 | So it was the same as if it wasn't there at all
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| 07:34 | Except for the swap devices...
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| 07:35 | I'd tested that before the switch to root=/dev/nbd0, I didn't test it later on
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| 07:35 | <vagrantc> i do seem to recall Debian working fine with NBD before nbd-disconnect was even written
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| 07:36 | shutdown/reboot was handled a bit different with sysvinit vs. upstart
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| 07:36 | or maybe it was leaving open connections that i just hadn't noticed ... hard to remember
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 07:36 | That was the only issue
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| 07:37 | nbd-client -d was never called, so the swap files weren't deleted
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| 07:39 | When nbd-server was running from inetd, it wasn't a big problem because it supported tcp keep-alive
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| 07:39 | I think for a quick fix I'll disable it _unless_ some lts.conf directive is used
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| 07:40 | E.g. DISCONNECT_NBD_ON_SHUTDOWN=True
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| 07:40 | <vagrantc> disable nbd-disconnect?
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> It was disabled until a week ago
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| 07:40 | So yup...
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| 08:06 | vagrantc: we have INITRD_NAME, but not NBI_NAME
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| 08:06 | Can we assume that we can replace "initrd" with "nbi" and get it? Since it's being deprecated etc?
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| 08:23 | !kvm
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| 08:23 | <ltsp> kvm: Virtual thin client: kvm -vga vmware -ctrl-grab -no-shutdown -kernel /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/vmlinuz -initrd /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/initrd.img -append "ro init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/nbd0 ip=:10.160.67.10::"
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> OK one done, one to go... :)
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| 08:32 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i wouldn't bother with nbi support, honestly...
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> vagrantc: see my last commit, I think it's good enough for at least debian + ubuntu
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| 08:32 | It doesn't even mention "pae" anymore... :)
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| 08:32 | And, it fixed the vmlinuz symlink here in an ltsp-update-image -c / test
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| 08:34 | On to nbd-disconnect... fortunately kvm allows me to see the last image of the VM after it shuts down
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| 08:36 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 08:36 | <alkisg> bb!
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| 16:54 | <stgraber> alkisg: we are in sync with Debian for ltsp and ldm. We should be for nbd too if the package was actually building: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:3.6-1
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> stgraber: the current ltsp in debian, 5.5.0, is buggy, so I was talking with vagrantc about if he could release 5.5.1 before trusty import freeze
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| 17:29 | <stgraber> alkisg: ah, ok. The Debian Import Freeze only affects auto-sync, not manual syncs so there's no rush. As long as any new feature is in before Feature Freeze
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> Ah, cool, let me check when feature freeze is...
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| 17:30 | Although, there aren't really new features now, mostly bug fixes
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| 17:30 | 18 February 20th FeatureFreeze
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| 17:30 | Very good
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| 17:34 | <stgraber> not sure if you're in touch with nbd upstream, but it may be worth having them look at: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/1:3.6-1
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| 17:35 | as long as those 3 builds don't succeed, the new nbd won't land in trusty
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| 17:43 | <alkisg> I think wouter is already working on those
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| 18:43 | <bennabiy> alkisg: what currently is buggy about 5.5... I am about to do a test chroot to see if we still have compatibility with mint 15 +
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| 19:15 | !fat-clients
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| 19:15 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'fat-clients', but I do know about these similar topics: 'epoptes-fat-clients'
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| 19:15 | <bennabiy> !fatclient
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| 19:15 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
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| 19:15 | <bennabiy> !fatclients
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| 19:15 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 19:29 | <bennabiy> !ltsp-pnp
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| 19:29 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so, I committed the first fix, and I have this ready: http://pastie.org/8648794
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| 20:53 | ...but I can't test it because shutdown never failed for me
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| 20:53 | I asked some teachers that did experience the issue to test it, I hope they'll reply tomorrow
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| 20:53 | So, if you want to upload, I can push it untested...
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| 20:54 | (untested, meaning, I see no difference while testing here locally)
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| 20:54 | bennabiy: ltsp 5.5.0 breaks grub booting with ltsp-pnp, but the current ltsp-trunk has fixes for that
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| 20:56 | Btw, nbd-disconnect did work for the "disconnect swap" part till now, which is the most significant part, to not leave 512 MB swap files on the server
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| 20:57 | It's just the "disconnect root" part which didn't work; which isn't very important,
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| 20:57 | * vagrantc nods | |
| 20:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that patch seems to assume upstart, no?
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> and, for a few users, the "don't use poweroff -fp" part caused a regression, while for others the sysrq part caused a regression
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| 20:58 | vagrantc: if it does, it's not intentional
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> so upstart reads stdout ?
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> I did remove the "-p" parameter to poweroff, so that it's compatible with debian...
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> or stderr?
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> Ah you mean the comment?
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| 20:58 | It's there in case stgraber ever wants to "correct" the upstart job
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| 20:58 | upstart grabs stdout/stderr etc, yes
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| 20:59 | But it doesn't matter the message isn't significant...
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> how could that even break the nbd-swap?
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> nbd-swap was and is ok
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| 20:59 | The only issues are if the root nbd is cleanly disconnected or not, and if the clients shutdown properly or not
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| 21:00 | Now I tried to replace the sysrq with poweroff -f, assuming it does some extra magic, because those users that have the "not shutting down" issue, do report that "poweroff -fp" works for them
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| 21:00 | poweroff -fp was upstart specific, so I changed it to -f...
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| 21:02 | Now I'm using the "cache the command and hope that it works" hack... let's see if the users report that it fixes their shutdown issue
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| 21:24 | <stgraber> c
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| 21:38 | <alkisg> vagrantc: stgraber says that import freeze only affects automatic syncs, so manual syncs can be done until featurefreeze on February 20th
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