IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 October 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:07 | <warren> Somebody broke ldm's setxkbmap stuff
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| 01:18 | <warren> ogra: huh?
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| 01:18 | ogra: your latest patch for ldm comment makes no sense
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| 01:18 | ogra: nobody added a patch for a non-standard theme
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| 01:19 | ogra: that patch didn't even go upstream yet
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| 04:36 | <ninou> hi
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| 04:37 | dhcpport kernel argument for ubuntu/hardy do not work
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| 04:38 | how can i rebuild initrd image for ltsp clients ?
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| 08:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> good morning all
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| 08:15 | <nubae> morning _UsUrPeR_
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| 08:16 | * _UsUrPeR_ yawns and sips a monster | |
| 08:16 | vlt has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:16 | <nubae> I managed to get sugar collaboration working properly... ltsp and sugar is a go...
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| 08:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> oh spectacular
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| 08:17 | <nubae> yeah I'm doing a write up and I'll post to the list
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| 08:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> are you going to be setting that up as a kiosk?
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| 08:17 | <vlt> Hello. Does anyone know which type of Etherboot/PXE image I need from rom-o-matic.net to put it directly on a hd to boot PXE from?
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| 08:18 | "Binary ROM image .zrom"?
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| 08:25 | <johnny> i used the zdsk and booted off a floppy
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| 08:42 | <pscheie> is it accurate to say that it is easier to build multiple chroots, because of differing TC needs, with ltsp 5?
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| 08:42 | <ogra> pscheie, depends
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| 08:43 | <pscheie> or at least provide different kernels since some older TCs dislike newer kernels?
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| 08:43 | <ogra> pscheie, most stuff where your TCs use the same CPU arch and bootmetod should be catchable by lts.conf
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| 08:44 | <pscheie> ah, right, just specify a different kernel in lts.conf
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| 08:44 | <ogra> if you use different kernels yes, that might make sense ... though only because we dont have an easy method to have the modules from different kernel trees in one chroot
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| 08:44 | <pscheie> correct?
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| 08:44 | <ogra> then you would only need to change dhcpd.conf
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| 08:45 | no, kernel is dhcpd.conf/tftp ...
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| 08:45 | lts.conf only comes into play after the kernel loaded
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| 08:45 | <pscheie> but if a different kernel, same arch, is being used, would one likely need a different chroot?
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| 08:46 | or run the risk of things being broken by use of older kernel?
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| 08:46 | <ogra> yes, as i said because we dont have an easy method yet to have /lib/modules available for multiple different kernels
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| 08:46 | that is possible but would require manual fiddling
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| 08:47 | would be a cool addition though
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| 08:47 | since in the end you dont really need different chroots but your kernel needs to find its modules
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| 08:47 | <vlt> johnny: It works with GRUB pointing to a .zlilo image. But I wanted to omit the whole GRUB part ...
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| 08:47 | <pscheie> yeah, perhaps a topic for discussion at BTS
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| 08:47 | <ogra> the apps inside the chroots, the setup etc, everything will be the same
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| 08:48 | only /lib/moduleswould differ
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| 08:48 | <pscheie> Is that something that would have to be indicated in dhcpd?
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| 08:48 | <ogra> well, in ubuntu our difference is in the initramfs anyway unless you have non i386 clients
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| 08:48 | <pscheie> or lts.conf
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| 08:48 | ah, ok
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| 08:48 | <ogra> thats very distro specific to solve
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| 08:50 | fedora would have a different approach here, i would supply a different initramfs.conf file, and be done with it, since the ubuntu core kernel is as stripped as possible
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| 08:50 | so everything is a module here anyway
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| 08:52 | <pscheie> ok, tx
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| 08:53 | is anyone using flash 10 yet?
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| 08:53 | more to the point, any comments about getting sound working on TCs with it?
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| 08:54 | * ogra will soon | |
| 08:54 | <ogra> intrepid had it uploaded yesterday, i will start testing it the next week
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| 08:54 | but the alsa modules shold just cope
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| 08:54 | err
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| 08:54 | asound
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| 08:54 | sorry
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| 08:55 | * pscheie wishes he could recall all of Gadi's very informative lecture on the details of LTSP sound | |
| 08:56 | <ogra> TC HW -> alsa modules ... TC mixing -> pulse ... session runs grstreamer and forwards to pulse on the TC
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| 08:57 | the forwarding should happen through libasound
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| 08:57 | and its pulse module
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| 08:58 | <ogra> and essentially libasound just uses the PULSE_SERVER env variable which we set in ldm
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| 08:58 | * ogra implemented that upstream ages ago ... needs an urgent overhaul though | |
| 09:07 | <alkisg> With the latest intrepid my TCs work OK with no xorg configuration, but at a low monitor refresh rate. But if I do CONFIGURE_X=True, no matter what else I try (e.g. X_VERTREFRESH=72.0), I get a blank screen. So I want to produce a xorg.conf with the (automatic) working configuration, change the refresh rate and provide it to lts.conf. But the new xorg doesn't create a xorg, so I can't take it!!! Any ideas?
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| 09:08 | *doesn't create a .conf
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| 09:09 | <Gadi> good morning, all
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| 09:09 | alkisg: are you sure it doesn't create a xorg.conf? perhaps the driver is overdriving the monitor
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| 09:09 | or not using a monitor-supported mode
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| 09:10 | <alkisg> Gadi, good morning. I think this is the problem, but I couldn't find an /etc/X11/xorg.conf
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| 09:10 | <Gadi> did you log into a shell on the client?
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| 09:10 | <alkisg> Yes, with ctrl+alt+f1 => root etc
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| 09:10 | <Gadi> crl-alt-f1?
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| 09:10 | ah, ok
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| 09:10 | in the shell, run: X :10 -configure
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> Oh, it's :10 now???!!! I was wondering about that!!!
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| 09:11 | <Gadi> its arbitrary
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> I'm not near the clients, though. This will show me the configuration options?
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| 09:11 | <Gadi> this will just produce a xorg.conf and a log in Xorg.10.log
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| 09:11 | or it will error out
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> I was trying "DISPLAY=:7 xterm" which worked at previous versions, but no joy
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| 09:11 | <Gadi> that only works if the Xserver is running
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> Gadi, thanks, I'll try it on Monday when I'll be at the lab
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| 09:12 | <Gadi> but, I am not sure if your Xserver is up and in the wrong mode for the monitor
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| 09:12 | or if it failed entirely
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> The xserver is running afaik, I think it's overdriving the monitor like you said
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| 09:12 | <Gadi> ah, in that case
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| 09:12 | belay the first response ;)
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| 09:12 | just take a look at /var/log/Xor.6.log
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> (well, I'm not entirely sure, the screens are new, and I don't see a "mode not supported" dialog'
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| 09:13 | <Gadi> *Xorg.6.log
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| 09:13 | or Xorg.7.log
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| 09:13 | whatever it is
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> OK, will try that! Thanks!
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| 09:13 | <Gadi> even better, scp it to the server
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| 09:13 | so you can pastebot it here for help
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| 09:13 | the Xorg log tells all
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> The problem is that when I'm at the lab, noones here!!! :)
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| 09:13 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 09:14 | well, scp it to wherever you are now
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| 09:14 | ;)
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| 09:14 | or just read through it
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> Yeah, sure!
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| 09:14 | <Gadi> it will tell you what mode it is using
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| 09:14 | you may have to choose a better one with X_MODE_0
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> What if it fails entirely?
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| 09:14 | <Gadi> if it fails entirely, then X -configure would fail
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| 09:14 | but produce a log
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> (I did try with X_MODE_0 and X_VERTREFRESH, but all combinations I've tried just blanked the screen)
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| 09:15 | <Gadi> so, scp whatever Xorg log you find
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| 09:15 | X_VERTREFRESH needs to be accompanied by X_HORZSYNC
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> OK, I see.
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| 09:15 | <Gadi> to work properly
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| 09:15 | so, try setting both, like:
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| 09:15 | X_VERTREFRESH = "55-75"
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| 09:15 | X_HORZSYNC = "30-100"
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> Then maybe that's why it failed, I thought I had tried it last year and succeded, but I may not remember well
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| 09:16 | <Gadi> or some such
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| 09:16 | and ranges are better than distinct values
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> Even X_MODE_0=1024x768 failed though
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| 09:16 | (only this one, with no horizontal / vertical timings)
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> then, it either is at a refresh rate that is too high for the monitor, or it does not recognize the mode or the entire driver fails
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| 09:17 | I would lean to the former
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> OK, I'll scp the log and look at it, and if I can't find anything I'll come for help! :)
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| 09:17 | <ogra> alkisg, just setting CONFIGURE_X=True without any other options should create you an xorg.conf
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| 09:17 | to fiddle with then
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> right
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> ogra, I'm pretty sure I've tried that and saw no xorg.conf in /etc/X11
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> and if not, then the driver is borked
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| 09:17 | <ogra> right
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| 09:17 | <Gadi> and X -configure is failing
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| 09:18 | <ogra> well, nsc is borked
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| 09:18 | so it depends if the chroot was created before nsc was dropped from xserver-xorg-video-all :)
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> So, I should also specify a driver? But I can't think why autodetection would choose the right one, and CONFIGURE_X=True would fail...
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| 09:18 | <Gadi> ooh! you dropped it! YAY!
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| 09:18 | :)
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| 09:18 | <ogra> well
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| 09:19 | i voted against it :)
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| 09:19 | * alkisg is googling for nsc... | |
| 09:19 | <ogra> but there was no fix to make Xorg -configure survive with it
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| 09:19 | <Gadi> alkisg: nsc is an old driver for geode chipsets
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| 09:19 | <ogra> alkisg, dpkg -l xserver-xorg-video-nsc .... in your chroot
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| 09:19 | <Gadi> that conflicts with the newer geode driver
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, I got S3 virge
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| 09:19 | <Gadi> that savage
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| 09:19 | ur find
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| 09:19 | *fine
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| 09:20 | <ogra> if xserver-xorg-video-nsc is installed Xorg -configure cant work
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| 09:20 | <Gadi> well, of course, then there's the mess of via drivers
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| 09:20 | ;)
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> ogra, no such package
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| 09:20 | <ogra> good
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| 09:20 | <Gadi> good
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| 09:20 | <ogra> do the same for -psb
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> I'm using the latest ltsp-server package
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| 09:20 | <ogra> it has a similar prob and was dropped one day later
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| 09:21 | doesnt depend on ltsp-server ... only on xorg
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> None for xserver-xorg-video-psb
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| 09:21 | <ogra> good as well
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| 09:21 | then it should crete an xorg.conf
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> It's possible that when I tried this I had an older xorg
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| 09:22 | I'll try again on Monday, thanks!
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| 09:22 | ogra, no other problems, everything's fine!
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| 09:22 | <ogra> it should overwrite the older xorg.conf
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| 09:22 | cool !
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| 09:22 | <Gadi> is it me or is ltsp-discuss becoming like slashdot
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| 09:22 | ;)
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| 09:22 | <ogra> did they mention edubuntu ?
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| 09:23 | or why do you think that ?
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| 09:23 | <Gadi> i dunno - i guess i don't read it often enough, but in threaded view, the subjects go off the screen ;)
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| 09:23 | <ogra> hehe, yeah
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| 09:23 | its all that server viagra talk atm
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| 09:24 | hardening this, hardening that ... blah
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| 09:24 | <Gadi> hehe - haven't gotten to that thread yet
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| 09:24 | <Gadi> lol
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| 09:25 | * ogra wonders what to do with the guest button in intrepid | |
| 09:25 | <Gadi> invite guests to use it?
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| 09:25 | <ogra> ubuntu has a guest session by default now
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| 09:25 | <Gadi> but only fearless guests
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| 09:26 | <ogra> would be saner to attach them directly
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> how does that work?
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| 09:26 | the guest session?
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| 09:26 | <ogra> tmpfs /home
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| 09:26 | and no access to anything on the system
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| 09:26 | nor user settings
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> can you have multi-guest users?
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| 09:27 | <ogra> hm, in gdm consolekit might handle that... not sure that works in our case though
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| 09:27 | since we dont have a dbus connection
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| 09:27 | thats really something we need to solve for next release
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| 09:28 | dbus gets more and more essential
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| 09:28 | like, gnoe will drop bonobo ... no applet will work without dbus interaction
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| 09:28 | *gnome
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| 09:28 | <Gadi> dbus runs on the server, no?
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| 09:28 | <ogra> so we will need something like dbus-ssh
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| 09:28 | right, thats the prob
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| 09:29 | dbus also runs on the client now for hal-input
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| 09:29 | * Gadi only sees the problem with local apps | |
| 09:29 | <ogra> so we should use the clients system bus
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| 09:29 | no, there is probs with policykit, consolekit, session management etc
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| 09:29 | gconfd ...
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| 09:30 | if we have dbus on the client connected to the session bus on the server you can finally (at least for the desktop) log in multiple times
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| 09:30 | it wont cause any breakage in gnome
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| 09:31 | (doesnt help oo.o or FF, i know)
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| 09:31 | <ogra> Gadi, btw i'm planning to write a new greeter for jaunty
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| 09:32 | and reviewing your timeout patch i saw you actually add hboxes or vboxes dynamically
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| 09:32 | never ever do that
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| 09:33 | keep the layout space for your items always there but hide the items rather
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| 09:33 | else you break the layout
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| 09:33 | <Gadi> my timeout patch?
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| 09:33 | <ogra> (just as a future advice)
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| 09:33 | <Gadi> wasn't me
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| 09:33 | * Gadi never wrote a timeout patch | |
| 09:33 | <Gadi> that was ryan52, I think
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| 09:34 | <ogra> err, sorry
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| 09:34 | guest patch :)
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| 09:34 | if(allowguest) gtk_box_pack_start(GTK_BOX(vbox), guestbox, FALSE, FALSE, 0);
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| 09:34 | thats massively evil
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> again, not me
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| 09:34 | * Gadi has no such interest in guests | |
| 09:34 | <Gadi> :)
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| 09:34 | <ogra> heh
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| 09:34 | ok, i thought both came initially from you
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> talk to vagrantc and ryan52
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| 09:34 | they are all about being social
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| 09:34 | <ogra> heh
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| 09:35 | well, i will rewrite the greeter more robust and a lot more themeable
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> cool
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| 09:35 | <ogra> floating transient popup windows FTW
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> please add dialog boxes or some status box on the greeter itself
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| 09:36 | just keep in mind, we have no window manager
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| 09:36 | <ogra> if i get it done how its in my head atm you can add remove boxes on the fly at the position you want them independently
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| 09:36 | we do
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| 09:36 | its called gtkfixed :)
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| 09:37 | * Gadi smiles and nods and lets ogra do the coding ;) | |
| 09:37 | <ogra> you can specify positions with it on the parent (wallaper window)
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| 09:37 | <Gadi> cool - and move things around?
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| 09:38 | <ogra> it just requires a lot of math in the code to get a good default ... if we have that we can add themeable overrides for each of them
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| 09:38 | so you will be able to wite a theme file and assign positions for each element
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| 09:38 | <Gadi> ok - then just keep dialogs modal
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| 09:38 | :)
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| 09:38 | <ogra> totally free positions ... even overlaps if you want
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| 09:39 | <Gadi> is this something you picked up working on those little toys of yours?
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| 09:39 | <ogra> though some items need to be grouped, if i have a prototype to look at i'll start a discussion about which of them
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| 09:39 | nah
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| 09:39 | the constant theme issues just made me dig though the code
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| 09:40 | * ogra still tries to get his hair in shape again after three days of looking at the different hacks and patches | |
| 09:40 | <ogra> ubuntu is in final freeze so i cant do any ubuntu development atm :)
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| 09:41 | well, beyond bugfixes ... but mobile has no bugs indeed, since *i* built it O:)
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| 09:41 | <Gadi> freeze is before hackfest, right?
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| 09:41 | <ogra> freeze is since yesterday
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| 09:41 | <Gadi> oh, congrats
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| 09:41 | <ogra> release os on 30th
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| 09:41 | *is
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| 09:41 | <Gadi> spooky
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| 09:41 | :)
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> ogra, from a teacher perspective, if you're going to write gtkgreeter again, please provide username/password edit boxes simultaneously, the students are getting confused with just one box! :)
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| 09:42 | <Gadi> yeah, that and we should also let [TAB} = [ENTER]
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| 09:42 | <ogra> alkisg, i'll consider that as option, though it breaks the concept and usability
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| 09:42 | <Gadi> lots of folks are used to tabbing after username
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| 09:42 | <alkisg> Gadi, right!
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| 09:43 | <ogra> yeah, that could even get added to the current greeter
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> ogra, usability in my classroom says that 2 boxes are needed! :P
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| 09:43 | <ogra> alkisg, all human interface guides disagree with your classroom ;)
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| 09:43 | <Gadi> alkisg: would TAB=ENTER suffice?
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| 09:43 | <ogra> but yeah, we can likely make it an option
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> Oh, come on, windows also have this! :P :P :P
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| 09:43 | <ogra> huh ?
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| 09:44 | <Gadi> I think from usability it would amount to the same thing
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| 09:44 | <ogra> not since XP
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| 09:44 | <johnny> and many web pages
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| 09:44 | i think they are used to it from web pags
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| 09:44 | pages*
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> ogra, sure, if you press alt+ctrl+del to show the logon dialog, it's there on xp also
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| 09:44 | <johnny> can anybody tell me a web site off the top of their heads that doesn't put both entries on one page?
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> Gadi, no, they get confused on where to write the password since they don't see a box (before pressing enter, that is)
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| 09:44 | <ogra> well, anyway the current infrastructure desont allow it
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| 09:45 | so such a design would require changes on a deeper level
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| 09:45 | more than the greeter
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> ok, it's minor, no problem... :D
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| 09:46 | <johnny> it's standard on the web
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> They get used after the second lesson
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| 09:46 | <johnny> so you don't have to make a seperate request
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| 09:46 | just to get anothet form field
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| 09:46 | <ogra> i'll start off with the current greeter code but strip out all elements and redesign the layout stuff from ground up
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| 09:47 | <johnny> i consider the greeter the odd one out here
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| 09:47 | most programs have them together as well
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| 09:47 | <ogra> greeter_iface in ldm itself would need a new mode to accept a user/pw combo instead of waiting for each of them separately
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| 09:47 | <johnny> not sure how that is good usability
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| 09:47 | <ogra> gdm has it like that
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| 09:47 | by default, in all distros
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| 09:47 | <johnny> to contradict an accepted behaviour
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| 09:48 | <ogra> the ldm ui always tired to stay close to the gdm ui
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| 09:48 | <johnny> yeah.. i understand that
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| 09:48 | it just doesn't make sense in context of EVERY OTHER PROGRAM and web site
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| 09:48 | <ogra> if someone wants to make a kdm ripoff, feel free :)
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| 09:49 | <johnny> sometimes you have to fire your usability focus group
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> ogra, (not a request) gdm also has a face greeter, which is much more user intuitive than the plain one. It would be useless in labs with 100 user accounts though...
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| 09:51 | <ogra> its uninmplementable in ltsp
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> ok, I'm not requesting, I'm happy with Greek in ldm! :P :D :D
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| 09:53 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:53 | <Gadi> unimplementable? that sounds like a challenge
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| 09:53 | :)
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| 09:53 | Im sure scotty could do it
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| 09:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> is there a --kiosk option in Fedora 9 like there is in ubuntu when using ltsp-build-client?
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| 09:54 | It's error'ing on me
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| 09:54 | <ogra> Gadi, only implementable based on a massve security breach
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| 09:54 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:54 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, thats an ubuntu plugin
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| 09:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> k
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| 09:55 | * ogra always found that to insane to commit upstream :) | |
| 09:56 | <ogra> thoug its actually been our first localapp implementation :)
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| 09:56 | Blinny has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:57 | <Gadi> 3 cheers for localapps!
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| 09:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> so with the ubuntu ltsp image I just created with --kiosk, is there a way to get it to not be slow?
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| 09:58 | <Gadi> use better hardware
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| 09:58 | <ogra> Gadi, btw, would you mind bringing up xrandr integration by default at BTS ?
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| 09:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> Hardware on what? client or server?
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| 09:58 | <ogra> (since i wont be there)
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| 09:58 | client
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> ogra: sure - though not all drivers have caught up with xrandr
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| 09:59 | <ogra> the kiosk runs 100% on the client
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| 09:59 | in ubuntu and FC they have
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| 09:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> ORLY
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> wait - hold the phone - ur not coming to BTS?
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| 09:59 | <ogra> nope
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> ok, get me Mark's number
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| 09:59 | the one for his Jet's phone
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| 10:02 | wpgmb has joined #ltsp | |
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| 10:04 | <wpgmb> still struggling with ltsp server: what config file should I be looking at to enable a system (not a client) on the backbone subnet so it can ssh directly into the ltsp-dhcp side subnet?
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| 10:20 | <six2one> wpgmb: does this system have 2 NICs?
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| 10:20 | <wpgmb> yes
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| 10:21 | <wpgmb> six2one: sorry - clarification: the ltsp server has two nics, yes
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| 10:21 | mighty-d has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:21 | <mighty-d> Hi
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| 10:21 | <six2one> you will need to set up routes so the outside (non ltsp network) can connect to the inside (ltsp dhcp network)
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| 10:21 | is there a reason u need to ssh to the ltsp side of the server?
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| 10:22 | <mighty-d> i want to deploy a 70 thin clients setup, i was thinking on 8GB RAM and a Xeon Quad Core processor for the server, do you think this will be enough?
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| 10:22 | clients will be runing openoffice, mozilla and rdesktop most of the time
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| 10:23 | <wpgmb> six2one: I thought so. Some had suggested IP forwarding would do the trick, but it doesn't. Yes - reason: I want to be able to ssh into /home on the LTSP server from a system outside the ltsp network
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| 10:24 | <mighty-d> wpgmb, as six2one said, you might have issues with routes on other subnets, try adding an static route to your default gateway
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| 10:24 | <wpgmb> mighty-d: that's a lot of power. It will depend on the actual usage. Ie - if all 70 are watching youtubes with sound... it may bog down speed
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| 10:24 | <six2one> mighty-d: your network will be important as well....
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| 10:24 | mighty-d: enabling local apps will take some load off
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| 10:25 | alkisg has left #ltsp | |
| 10:25 | <wpgmb> mighty-d: I don't think that's the issue: I can ssh into eth0 (gateway nic) and I can ping it. From there, I can ssh into eht1 (dhcp nic). Once I'm there, I can ssh into my system where it all started from
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| 10:25 | mighty-d: and clients can access the 'Net just fine, without a static route
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| 10:25 | <Gadi> wpgmb: echo "1" >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward and edit the corresponing line in /etc/sysclt.conf
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| 10:26 | <six2one> wpgmb: what version of ltsp u runnin? 5?
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| 10:26 | <mighty-d> wpgmb, pelase explain the problem to me, i just got here so i am missing everything
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> */etc/sysctl.conf
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| 10:26 | <wpgmb> Gad1: been there, done that. Not effective
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| 10:26 | <mighty-d> six2one, i cant run local apps
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| 10:26 | <wpgmb> six2one: yes, I installed the Hardy LTSP version
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| 10:26 | <Gadi> wpgmb: do you have NAT running?
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| 10:26 | or any other firewall rules?
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| 10:27 | <wpgmb> six2one: it boils down to this: what config file should I be looking at to enable a system (not a client) on the backbone subnet so it can ssh directly into the ltsp-dhcp side subnet?
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| 10:27 | <mighty-d> six2one, but do you think this set up is appropiate or should i go for two xeon dual core or quad core isntead?
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| 10:27 | <six2one> wpgmb: you will need to get static routes set up, the "outside" has no idea that the ltsp network exists...just the internet facing nic
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| 10:28 | <Gadi> wpgmb: you need to enable routing, disable NAT, and set a route that uses the backbone interface address as the gateway to the thin client subnet
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| 10:28 | <six2one> mighty-d: i would go as big as you can, 70 "THICK" clients will be some load...you will need a good raid array as well....
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| 10:28 | <mighty-d> wpgmb, or set up rip or ospf, i know it brings more complexity but you can scale your setup nice
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| 10:29 | six2one, you think i can go with lvm instead of RAID ?, should i go with raid hardware or can i use software?
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| 10:29 | six2one, i want to know if what i thinking is reasonable or if i should think bigger
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| 10:29 | maybe 12 GB RAM ?
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| 10:30 | <six2one> mighty-d: i ran 50 clients from a single amd optie (forget the speed) with 4gb ram...ran well...HOWEVER...all the clients were doing were IBM client access term sessions back to the server (terms on their own network) and then from the server to mainframe
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| 10:30 | mighty-d: i would get a GOOD 3ware card
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| 10:30 | <loather> depends on what your goal is out of the RAID
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| 10:30 | if you want performance, then software raid is not for you
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| 10:31 | areca and 3ware both make excellent hardware that is fully-supprted by the linux kernel
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| 10:31 | <mighty-d> loather, ok, ill take your advice
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| 10:31 | <six2one> mighty-d: loather is right...with 70 clients, u wont want a slow array and u need to take a failure and still keep ur shit up....70 clients might notice downtime
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| 10:31 | lol
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| 10:31 | <loather> plan to spend somewhere between $500-$1000 dependent on how many disks you have in your array
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| 10:32 | <mighty-d> loather i was thinking on raid 5 with 750 GB disks
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| 10:33 | <loather> how many 750s? you can do raid 5 with 3 disks on up
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| 10:33 | <Blinny> I have an 8GB quad-core dual-processor box, and the most I've had it up to is 60% RAM usage when 16 thin clients were on-board. They're heavy though, FF w/ flash, Thunderbird, and OOo with full gnome
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| 10:34 | I think 70 clients would be better served by multiple servers.
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| 10:34 | <mighty-d> http://www.z-a-recovery.com/art-raid-estimator.htm
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| 10:34 | <wpgmb> Gad1:"you need to enable routing, disable NAT, and set a route that uses the backbone interface address as the gateway to the thin client subnet" - makes sense, I think. Thanks
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| 10:34 | <Blinny> Really, the biggest problem you'll run into is maxing out a GigE NIC
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| 10:35 | <mighty-d> Blinny, i was thinking on multiple NICS to do the trick
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| 10:35 | i dont trust assymetric switchs
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| 10:35 | <Blinny> Definitely.
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| 10:35 | <loather> there's bondage, erum, bonding, to fix that thougH :)
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| 10:35 | * mighty-d had bad experiences | |
| 10:35 | <ogra> there are also fiber switches that support interface trunking
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| 10:36 | <loather> copper switches too
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| 10:36 | <Blinny> If it were my network I'd do multiple failover round-robin application servers with a fiber back connection to NFS boxes sharing /home and /usr
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| 10:36 | <ogra> you can bundle several fiber lines with tham to get multi Gbit
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| 10:36 | <six2one> mighty-d: yea, ull need to team the nics for sure....ltsp5 is WAY heavier than 4.2
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| 10:36 | <Blinny> Depends on how you subnet.
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| 10:36 | * ogra wouldnt say 'way' | |
| 10:36 | <ogra> but its for sure heavier
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| 10:37 | <six2one> ogra: well i have been upset recently, my good ol' trusted dell gx100s dont work well anymore
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| 10:37 | <ogra> how much ram do they have ?
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| 10:37 | <six2one> ogra: 512
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| 10:38 | <mighty-d> Blinny, how will you do the trick to log in to your fail-over array, since you dont have xdm, does ldm support this already?
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| 10:38 | <six2one> ogra: in my experience the via edens are sexy and work great
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| 10:38 | <ogra> thats way more than you need
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| 10:38 | <six2one> ogra: so ima use them
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| 10:38 | <ogra> yeah
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| 10:38 | <six2one> ogra: it SHOULD be more than i need, but they eventually crash and burn...multiple firefox tabs FTL!
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| 10:39 | <Blinny> mighty-d: I'd have to work on the automagic failover - at first it'd just be 'Oops bad things happened, you need to re-log in'
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| 10:39 | <ogra> 64M are good for booting and no extra features, 128M for features, 256M are perfect
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| 10:39 | <six2one> ogra: and since they are like celeron i cant do local apps
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| 10:39 | <ogra> six2one, what distro/release ?
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| 10:39 | <mighty-d> Blinny, suppose i acquire two servers for 35 users each
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| 10:39 | <six2one> ogra: 8.04.1 ltsp5
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| 10:39 | <mighty-d> btw, i think your box is pretty high for 16 users
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| 10:40 | <six2one> they worked great back in the day with 4.2
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| 10:40 | <Blinny> something like http://peopleplaces.org/net.png
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| 10:40 | * mighty-d has a 25 users box with a dual core 2.2 ghz (core 2 duo) and 4 gb ram running hardy | |
| 10:40 | <ogra> hardy had some issues ... like the firefox urandom breakage
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| 10:40 | there are fixes in the queue
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| 10:40 | <Blinny> that's not exactly it of course - pulled that from a different setup
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| 10:41 | Yeah I know - it also does database stuff. Eventually the box will serve ~30 thin clients
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| 10:41 | but I haven't migrated them all yet
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| 10:41 | <ogra> six2one, hardy will likely see a good bunch of extra fixes after the interpid release
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| 10:41 | <Blinny> ogra: YEA!
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| 10:41 | <ogra> currently all devs are busy with the release, after that hardy SRUs will get more attention again
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| 10:41 | <six2one> ogra: dude, i couldnt care less!!! this is WAYYYYY better than the old school fedora 4 days when i started this stuff!
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| 10:42 | <ogra> i personally have a list for ltsp already
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| 10:42 | six2one, well, still i'm a tad unhappy that hardy gets so much bad press compared to gutsy so i have interest to have it rock ;)
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| 10:43 | <six2one> ogra: ill gladly feed it better terms, im so glad they jumped off the fedora ship...it gets old when the server goes stale after like 6 months
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| 10:43 | <Blinny> mighty-d: You may just get better reliability/redundancy out of a few smaller servers than one or two bigger ones. You could even go raid sata
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| 10:43 | <six2one> ogra: .deb FTMFW!
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| 10:43 | <ogra> i want it in a state that Gadi recommends it to people over any other release :)
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| 10:43 | and bribing didnt help yet
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| 10:44 | <six2one> haha
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| 10:44 | <ogra> so i have to apply fixes it seems
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| 10:44 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 10:44 | <ogra> or i'm not bribing good enough
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| 10:44 | * Gadi can be a ball-buster | |
| 10:45 | <mighty-d> Blinny, i am looking at your deployment, its kinda nice but i dont think my budget allows for such a redundancy, ill have to go with something modests
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| 10:46 | Blinny, the lvs router its only a failover for routes?, or you propose a cluster for the servers as well?
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| 10:47 | <Blinny> Cluster everything!
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| 10:47 | Really it's up to your & your budget
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| 10:47 | and how you can tolerate downtime or slowness if a server goes out
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| 10:48 | For my particular setup, I wanted NO downtime, so I went hardware RAID with notifications of failures, multiple power supplies, backup NICs etc
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| 10:48 | but it's time for me to go exercise - g'luck be back in a bit if you have more questionS!
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| 10:49 | <loather> ipvs is great. it's a full layer 4-7 switch
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| 10:49 | <mighty-d> Blinny, for my deployment hardware raid sure, multiple power supplies definately, backups NICs doable, an extra server just to sit there and wait for a downtime not possible
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| 10:49 | <loather> well, it'd be load-balanced
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| 10:49 | you actually make the connection to the ipvs box, which directs it to the server with the least load
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| 10:49 | <mighty-d> thanks Blinny
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| 10:50 | thanks six2one and ogra and wpgmb, gotta go now too
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| 10:50 | * ogra goes back to play with a new themeable ldm greeter | |
| 10:50 | <six2one> mighty-d: np...im usually here
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| 10:51 | <loather> ogra: oooh, sexy! Where can I score source? :)
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| 10:52 | <ogra> loather, not yet, still in a conceptual phase
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| 10:54 | <loather> i see. when you're ready i'll help test. I have to build a new ltsp box here shortly
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| 10:54 | <ogra> loather, trying out some new concepts to put elements in transparent floating windows and the like
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| 10:54 | so everything becomes freely positionable
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| 10:54 | <loather> oh, that's pretty cool. ultimate control over where everything goes.
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| 10:55 | <ogra> right
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| 10:55 | <nubae> hmm why does tee need /dev/null on the end when u are writing input to a file?
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| 10:55 | <ogra> and no more issues with logosizes etc
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| 10:56 | <loather> logo too big? move the box down. :)
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| 11:01 | sbalneav has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:01 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 11:02 | Hmm, I need to figure out what to put in my .irssi to make it reconnect after a netsplit
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| 11:05 | <nubae> for anyone curious, this is how to get sugar, ejabberd and collaboration working perfectly on LTSP: http://www.nubae.com/sugar-on-ltsp-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex
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| 11:05 | I wonder how much memory sugar needs... could be a good minimal install that requires less ram on TCs
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| 11:07 | <sbalneav> ltspbot: learn sugar as for anyone curious, this is how to get sugar, ejabberd and collaboration working perfectly on LTSP: http://www.nubae.com/sugar-on-ltsp-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex
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| 11:07 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
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| 11:07 | <sbalneav> !sugar
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| 11:07 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "sugar" is for anyone curious, this is how to get sugar, ejabberd and collaboration working perfectly on LTSP: http://www.nubae.com/sugar-on-ltsp-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex
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| 11:09 | <ogra> nubae, :( where are the pictures ?
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| 11:09 | * ogra wants screenshots and photos | |
| 11:10 | <nubae> :-) ok... I'll add them
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| 11:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> lol
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| 11:11 | <nubae> its super cool... walk into a lab with a laptop, plugin into the lan, and bam! sugared environment
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| 11:11 | now tell me what else can do that ;-)
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| 11:13 | <Q-FUNK> ;)
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| 11:49 | <nubae> ogra: when u say photos, u mean of the terminals themselves?
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| 11:52 | syyp has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:52 | <ogra> or beautiful wimen, make your pick :)
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| 11:52 | <syyp> Ehlo.
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| 11:53 | <nubae> lol
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| 11:53 | or beautiful women using thin terminals
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| 11:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> sotp that right now
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| 11:54 | <nubae> :p
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| 11:54 | <_UsUrPeR_> :)
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| 11:55 | indradg_ has quit IRC | |
| 11:56 | <syyp> What's the current wisdom on setting up local apps?
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| 11:56 | X0d_of_N3d_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:56 | <_UsUrPeR_> syyp: what OS are you using?
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| 11:56 | <syyp> Ubuntu 8.04
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| 11:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> do you have LTSP currently installed and working?
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| 11:57 | <syyp> IIRC, there was some talk of sshfs and other weirdness.
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| 11:57 | Yes.
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| 11:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> syyp: not that I am aware of... It's a pretty streamlined process now
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| 11:57 | chroot to the image you are working with
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| 11:57 | <syyp> Oh, ok. Is this link then considered the most up-to-date instructions? http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LocalApps
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| 11:58 | * _UsUrPeR_ pulls up link | |
| 11:59 | <syyp> I'm primarily interested in local apps, not local homedirs so, I'm guessing the SSH root@ltsp without NIS and/or Password section is what I need?
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| 11:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> syyp: give me one moment
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| 12:00 | * syyp gives _UsUrPeR_ two of them. | |
| 12:01 | CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:02 | keithclark has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:02 | * syyp brandishes a can opener at CAN-o-SPAM | |
| 12:02 | <syyp> ;)
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| 12:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> I am able to use localapps, and there has been no changes to my present lts.conf
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| 12:03 | jwas just checking
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| 12:03 | <syyp> meaning...
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| 12:04 | syyp has quit IRC | |
| 12:04 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok
| |
| 12:04 | so here's what I have done recently
| |
| 12:04 | first: "mount --bind /proc /opt/ltsp/i386/proc"
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| 12:05 | second: "chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
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| 12:05 | "
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| 12:05 | third: "apt-get install firefox"
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| 12:05 | fourth: "exit"
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| 12:06 | fifth: "ltsp-update-image"
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| 12:06 | sixth: "?????????????"
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| 12:06 | seventh: "profit"
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| 12:06 | :D
| |
| 12:07 | the sixth and seventh are actually "turn on the client" and "xrexec firefox in terminal"
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| 12:07 | respectively
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| 12:10 | zoredache_ is now known as zoredache | |
| 12:11 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> oh. he left
| |
| 12:11 | * _UsUrPeR_ has learned a valuable lesson today pertaining to talking to himself in public forums | |
| 12:12 | indradg_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:12 | <zoredache> what was the lesson?
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| 12:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> I just typed instructions out on how to install firefox as a localapp to an individual who had left minutes prior
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| 12:14 | <nubae> its good practice _UsUrPeR_:p
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| 12:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> I think I got it right :)
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| 12:14 | <zoredache> ah, so you weren't talking to yourself. The other person was just no longer listening
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| 12:15 | makghosh has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> precisely
| |
| 12:15 | <zoredache> welcome to IRC
| |
| 12:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> I used to use IRC waaay back in the day
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| 12:16 | <nubae> yah, I almost failed uni because of it
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| 12:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> for less... couth things. Pertaining to ye olde warez
| |
| 12:17 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh to be young again. No fear of corporate reprisal due to my legal status as a minor.
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| 12:18 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:19 | <jammcq> hello friends
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| 12:19 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 12:19 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey jamm
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| 12:19 | <jammcq> hey
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| 12:23 | <ogra> mumble ...
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| 12:28 | <jammcq> mumble ?
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| 12:28 | <Lns> hi jammcq
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| 12:28 | <jammcq> hey lns
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| 12:28 | what's shakin?
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| 12:28 | <Lns> just my ltsp term 1220 ;)
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| 12:28 | I love that thing
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| 12:29 | ogra: your mumble reminded me of the Troll from Zork I... not sure why...I think he mumbles if you try to talk to him...hehe
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| 12:30 | <ogra> that was just a unmotivated mumbling while playing with GtkFixed on the rootwin for a new ldm greeter
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| 12:30 | <Lns> oooo
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| 12:35 | * vagrantc mutters about hppa and arm holding up ldm | |
| 12:36 | <ogra> heh
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| 12:36 | hppa
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| 12:36 | i'm alwas amused if my mobile builds fail on it
| |
| 12:36 | * ogra tries to imagine a hppa mobile device | |
| 12:38 | <vagrantc> what's really, really annoying about hppa is the buildd actually sucessfully built the package ... 2 days ago ... and it still hasn't been uploaded.
| |
| 12:38 | at least arm hasn't yet built it.
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| 12:38 | of course, it's my own stupid fault for not correcting a mistake i made in the previous upload as soon as i saw it
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| 12:40 | ogra: so you've been looking into rewriting the greeter?
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| 12:40 | <ogra> vagrantc, yes
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| 12:41 | having one rootwin and adding all items as GtkFixed
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| 12:41 | that way they completely are placeable without distrubing each other
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| 12:41 | and the theme shouldnt interfere anymore ... you can even overlap items if you like
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| 12:43 | by default it will resemble the current look, but you shojld be able to override each and every position in the end
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| 12:43 | its a lot of math though ...
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| 12:43 | * Gadi hands ogra a slide rule | |
| 12:43 | <Gadi> and a book about how to use a slide rule
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| 12:44 | nubae has quit IRC | |
| 12:44 | <Gadi> and another about why you don't need to use a slide rule
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| 12:44 | <ogra> GtkFixed is evil, you have to use absolute sizes for everything so i need to compute all values dynamically based on screensize
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc> eeyk.
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| 12:44 | <johnny> didn't we already fix that on the web.?
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| 12:44 | and yet it still exists???
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| 12:44 | * johnny attacks | |
| 12:45 | <vagrantc> yeah, lets implement a web frontend to LDM!
| |
| 12:45 | <ogra> good idea 1
| |
| 12:45 | !
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| 12:45 | i guess that would work fine btw
| |
| 12:45 | <johnny> well.. gnome is seeming to go web everywhere
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| 12:45 | with webkit usage
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| 12:45 | <ogra> you just need to make greeter_iface a cgi
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| 12:45 | what ?
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| 12:45 | <Lns> hmm...that means you'd have to run FF as a localapp right? ..
| |
| 12:45 | <ogra> what makes you think that
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| 12:45 | <vagrantc> evil.
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| 12:46 | <johnny> ogra, it's the word on the street
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| 12:46 | <ogra> Lns, yeah, that would be a requirement :)
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| 12:46 | <johnny> Lns, more like webkit-gtk
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| 12:46 | <Gadi> or lynx
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| 12:46 | <ogra> johnny, ah, lucily we walk on different streets then :)
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| 12:46 | <Lns> hehe...lynx would be cool
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| 12:46 | <johnny> gnome almost dropped xulrunner support completely from epiphany
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| 12:46 | <ogra> johnny, i thought that was abandoned since months again
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| 12:46 | <johnny> i'm using epiphany webkit right now
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| 12:47 | <ogra> its an option but not the default
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| 12:47 | <johnny> that's cuz gtk webkit isn't done yet imo
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| 12:47 | that it seems to bve the overwhelming opinion of the folks in gnome-hackers
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| 12:48 | and now there are js bindings to glib
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| 12:48 | <ogra> anyway, back to greeter_new.c :)
| |
| 12:48 | * ogra dives into his coding pit | |
| 12:49 | <johnny> personally.. i'd be all for it. if they ever went as far as to implement gtk on the web
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| 12:49 | via webkit
| |
| 12:49 | instead of all this clutter stuff and all
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| 12:54 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:58 | <ogra> you cant compare that
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| 12:59 | clutter is deeply tied in with your graphics cards GL and composite functions ... webkit is just a renderer
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| 13:08 | <Lns> wow, Mobile FF Alpha 1 just released: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/17/1656231
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| 13:08 | <nubae> anyone know when chrome is coming to linux?
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| 13:14 | <johnny> who cares
| |
| 13:14 | * johnny kicks chrome in the face | |
| 13:14 | * zoredache looks into a magic 8-ball - 'The outlook is unclear' | |
| 13:14 | <johnny> nubae, why would you need chrome?
| |
| 13:14 | just use another webkit based browser
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| 13:15 | you'll get all the benefits
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| 13:15 | and none of the drawbacks :)
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| 13:15 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:15 | <zoredache> actually, not all of the benifits... The new javascript engine is unique to chrome right now
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| 13:15 | <johnny> not for long i imagine
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| 13:19 | <nubae> http://www.nubae.com/sugar-on-ltsp-ubuntu-intrepid-ibex <-- wid screen shots, especially for ogra
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| 13:20 | johnny: I dunno, it does kinda look neat
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| 13:20 | I meant... javascript running 10 times faster..
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| 13:20 | <johnny> the new mozilla has plenty fast js
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| 13:20 | <nubae> dragging tabs into their own windows... I like the idea
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| 13:20 | keithclark has quit IRC | |
| 13:21 | <johnny> nubae, gnome terminal does that now :)
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| 13:22 | seems like firefox easily could..
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| 13:22 | but i guess the main thing.. is running each as a process
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| 13:22 | not sure when firefox is gonna try that.. or not
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| 13:23 | <nubae> yeah indeed, tabs crashing instead of the whole thing is much better
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| 13:23 | but why dont u like chrome?
| |
| 13:23 | cause its google monopoly plan?
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| 13:23 | <johnny> something like that
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| 13:23 | <nubae> :p
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| 13:24 | yeah lately, they took back their famous 'we are not evil' keyphrase
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| 13:24 | Director said it was no longer appropriate
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| 13:24 | <johnny> i limit my usage of all things google
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| 13:24 | not that they don't do some good things
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| 13:25 | cuz they do..
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| 13:25 | <nubae> they do better than the rest, but still could do much more
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| 13:25 | <johnny> they are a for profit company tho.. can't give away too much
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| 13:31 | <nubae> I can't believe the 2 ssh discussion is still going...
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| 13:32 | <johnny> what is the question?
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| 13:33 | i cna't get sf to thread any kind of decent way
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| 13:33 | radoeka has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:33 | <johnny> to be able to use that interface
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| 13:33 | radoeka has left #ltsp | |
| 13:35 | <vagrantc> google retracted it's "don't be evil" ? that's like saying ... we're intending to do evil.
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| 13:35 | <nubae> yeah, was in the latest wired
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| 13:36 | let me see if I can find the ext thing they said
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| 13:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> sounds like google realized where the true money was
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| 13:37 | keithclark has joined #ltsp | |
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| 13:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> "Google's latest press release states that they will be charging for access to the search engine on a monthly basis, using the new "Google Integration(tm)" corporate platform. Every paid user will be allowed to keep their gmail account."
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| 13:39 | <nubae> http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/16-10/st_15googleevil
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| 13:40 | _UsUrPeR_: access to search, where did u read that?
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| 13:40 | <Q-FUNK> ??!
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| 13:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> lol. Just made it up ;)
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| 13:40 | <Q-FUNK> what? bait and switch?
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| 13:40 | <nubae> oh... hehe
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| 13:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> hahaha
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| 13:40 | <Q-FUNK> DOH!
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| 13:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> we could perpetuate this rumor and make a killing on the stock rebound if you guys want though ;)
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| 13:41 | <Q-FUNK> meh
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| 13:44 | <Lns> ugh...ok flash 10 isn't ready for ltsp/linux yet i think...massive CPU hogging going on vs. flash 9
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| 13:44 | at least through adobe provided ubuntu 8.04 .deb
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| 13:47 | jarias has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:47 | <nubae> unsurprisingly... could have predicted that one
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| 13:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> color me surprised.
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| 13:48 | <nubae> People tell us: "What Edubuntu needs is content!! Lessons!!
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| 13:48 | Data!! Videos!! Manuals!!", we say, "Fantastic! Give us what you've got!",
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| 13:48 | and all that comes back is the sound of crickets. - sbalneav
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| 13:48 | love it... :D
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| 13:51 | <zoredache> what we need is a some kind of version control system that works well for curriculum content, and a site similar to sourceforge to host it
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| 13:53 | <nubae> zoredache: that already exists...
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| 13:53 | more than 1 actually
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| 13:54 | ah wait. version control...
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| 13:54 | yeah good idea... launchpad springs to ming
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| 13:54 | mind
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| 13:54 | <zoredache> I know somethign exists... i just dont think the 'works well' bit is done
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| 13:55 | <nubae> right... there's pretty much nothing, I was on the lookout for stuff to include in the XS server's Moodle for OLPC
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| 13:55 | curriki is the closest thing, and door as a repo for exchanging data, but both suck really
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| 13:56 | <nubae> standardisation of content seems to be the last thing on people's minds
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| 13:56 | <zoredache> I don't think content needs to or always should be standardized... I think such a system would probably need to be more distributed
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| 13:57 | allowing each teacher to branch off someone elses stuff, add there own bits, then share that back
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| 13:57 | <johnny> so.. who wants to pay me to develop it :)
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| 13:58 | lol
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| 13:58 | what about MIT's open courseware
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| 13:58 | what do they use?
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| 13:58 | <zoredache> I don't think lots of forks of content would be as painful as it is in the OSS world...
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| 13:58 | <johnny> it seems like you could aggregate lots of info for edubuntu tho
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| 13:58 | like links to open courseware, creative commons
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| 13:58 | <nubae> well it is if you want to put it into a virtual learning environment like moodle
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| 13:58 | <johnny> archive.org
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| 13:58 | etc
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| 13:59 | <nubae> johnny: yeah, if only there were more hours in the day ;-)
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| 13:59 | <johnny> there's alot of want.. but people don't understand how to contribute back
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| 13:59 | somebody told me not to bother giving any presentations on open source tho
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| 13:59 | that the market was already saturated
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| 14:00 | <nubae> its difficult to get involved sometimes
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| 14:00 | saturated? what part of the market is saturated? seems the most new growing market there is
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| 14:00 | <johnny> is there any web page that helps people get involved with open source and navigating the system ?
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| 14:00 | i'll let the person remain nameless..
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| 14:00 | maybe they didn't understand that it's not current developers who need to be told stuff
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| 14:01 | ubuntu's motu thing would be nice tho
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| 14:01 | but not just for ubuntu obviously..
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| 14:01 | elisboa has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:01 | <nubae> right ubuntu's system clearly works...
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| 14:01 | as opposed to gentoos :p
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| 14:02 | <johnny> huh?
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| 14:02 | <nubae> the politics
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| 14:02 | <johnny> i didn't say anything about gentoo
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| 14:02 | <nubae> no I did ;-)
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| 14:02 | <johnny> not sure why you brought it up
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| 14:02 | it has nothing to do with what i'm talking about
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| 14:02 | i am not a gentoo developer
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| 14:02 | even
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| 14:02 | <nubae> hmm... u made ltsp for it right?
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| 14:02 | <johnny> or anyway affilliate with gentoo
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| 14:03 | <nubae> doesnt that make u a developer?
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| 14:03 | <johnny> lots of people make ebuilds who are not developers
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| 14:03 | <nubae> anyway, I was just comparing the 2 political structures... gentoo council and motu council
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| 14:03 | one works, the other doesnt
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| 14:03 | <johnny> i have no idea
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| 14:03 | about how or if gentoo's council works
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| 14:04 | i'm completely out of the loop on that stuff
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| 14:04 | <nubae> come on there were releases delayed by months just cause they couldnt agree on stuff
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| 14:04 | <johnny> my only concern was certain trolls not being kicked out
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| 14:04 | <johnny> nubae, i agree on the new idea
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| 14:04 | automating release media
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| 14:05 | nubae, the real problem is that nobody wanted to be on releng
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| 14:05 | not political at all
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| 14:05 | nobody wants to do that unsexy kinda work
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| 14:05 | <nubae> releng?
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| 14:05 | <johnny> release engineering
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| 14:05 | the people who roll the releases
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| 14:05 | <nubae> ahz
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| 14:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> for ubuntu kiosk mode, I'm running a LTSP Term 1422 PXE with a gig of RAM and a 1.2gHz proc. Why does ubuntu kiosk take so long to start? It's been 6 minutes and I still am waiting for firefox to pop up :|
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| 14:59 | <dberkholz> nubae: council has nothing to do with it. it's lack of a single leader for life, imho
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| 15:06 | <nubae> dberkholz: totally agree
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| 15:21 | <nubae> what does LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLE do exactly?
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| 15:23 | vagrantc: ?
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| 15:24 | <johnny> i assume timeout for autologin..
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| 15:24 | * johnny guesses | |
| 15:25 | <nubae> any idea how much timeout?
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| 15:25 | <johnny> lol.. grep the src
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| 15:25 | not sure
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| 15:26 | <vagrantc> nubae: it enables the timeout
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| 15:26 | nubae: it requires also setting LDM_TIMEOUT_TIME ...
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| 15:26 | why it wasn't coded with a default timeout is beyond me
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| 15:26 | <nubae> timeout of what exactly, being able to login via LDM?
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| 15:27 | ie, what happens when timeout happens
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| 15:27 | <vagrantc> nubae: it does autologin after the timeout
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| 15:27 | <nubae> oh ok... understood
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| 15:27 | <vagrantc> might want to rename those variables
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| 15:28 | <nubae> LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT would sound better
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| 15:28 | <vagrantc> nubae: is that a boolean or a number? :P
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| 15:29 | <nubae> well if u made it a number, it wouldnt require the ldm_timeout_time too :p
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> that's the tricky part with this option ... to be consistant with LDM_AUTOLOGIN and LDM_GUESTLOGIN, there should be a boolean to enable/disable it, but then it also needs a way to configure the timeout
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| 15:30 | <johnny> consistancy isn't worth it ..
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| 15:30 | <nubae> its superflous
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| 15:30 | <johnny> if it isn't there.. it doesn't timeout
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| 15:30 | if it is.. and it's not 0..
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| 15:30 | then it does
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| 15:30 | <nubae> right
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| 15:30 | <vagrantc> patches accepted :)
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| 15:31 | <nubae> johnny: ? I dont work upstream, just docs... ;-)
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| 15:31 | <vagrantc> that's actually what i had suggested when Ryan52 was implementing it, but someone wanted a boolean too
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| 15:31 | <johnny> lol
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| 15:31 | just saying that you could find out the workings by looking at the src..
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| 15:32 | <nubae> so we agree on LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT with no on off switch (the on off switch only makes sense if there is a default time out)
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| 15:33 | ?
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| 15:33 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 15:33 | <vagrantc> nubae: sounds good to me.
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| 15:34 | CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:34 | <vagrantc> shouldn't be too hard to patch.
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| 15:36 | <ogra> nubae, is there a howto in the docs to set up key based auth ?
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| 15:37 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:37 | <vagrantc> i think it's as simple as setting /root/.ssh/id_rsa without a password
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| 15:37 | or any of the other default ssh keys
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| 15:37 | <ogra> vagrantc, but then only with autologin, right ?
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| 15:37 | <vagrantc> ogra: no
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| 15:37 | ogra: any login will attempt to use that key
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| 15:38 | there's no special code in ldm to use keys
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| 15:38 | <nubae> ogra: no there isn't, I was thinking about that the other day
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| 15:38 | <ogra> heh, not massively secure though
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| 15:38 | <nubae> also, there is nothing about local apps either
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| 15:38 | <ogra> unless you have a chroot per client ans restrict nbd access
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| 15:38 | nubae has quit IRC | |
| 15:38 | <vagrantc> ogra: it allows you to set up accounts without passwords
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| 15:39 | so that the user can;'t change the password
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| 15:39 | <ogra> right
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| 15:39 | but everyone would use the same key
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| 15:39 | <vagrantc> that's about all you get
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| 15:39 | indeed.
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| 15:39 | it's only useful for anonymous login anyways
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| 15:39 | * ogra notices he took his mouth to full in ltsp-discuss | |
| 15:40 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:40 | <ogra> damned hardening thread
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| 15:40 | <nubae> I know...
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| 15:40 | * ogra wishes jammcq could just delete it :) | |
| 15:40 | <nubae> like 60 replies already
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| 15:40 | Even Lns lost interest :-p
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| 15:41 | <Lns> heh
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| 15:41 | I blew all my steam out...no more steam
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| 15:41 | <jammcq> delete it??? I just add a .procmail rule so I never see it again
| |
| 15:41 | I've got about 160 such rules in my .procmailrc file
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| 15:42 | <johnny> lol
| |
| 15:42 | what is this thread?
| |
| 15:42 | <Lns> Can any of you guys vouch for it NOT being trivial to simply add a secondary sshd_config file w/different options, and launch with it? Is there more to it?
| |
| 15:42 | <johnny> is there a good link to view it
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| 15:42 | <jammcq> I'll never ever see another argument about why scsi is better than sata :)
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| 15:42 | <nubae> now only if folks could be so passionate about helping with community stuff
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| 15:43 | <jammcq> Lns: it's an init script and a config file. trivial in my opinion, and anybody administering a Linux/Unix system outta be able to handle that one
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| 15:43 | <nubae> jammcq: can u add the link to the irc logs in the topic...
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| 15:44 | <jammcq> ummm, where are the logs?
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| 15:44 | <Lns> k, yeah i forgot to mention the init script...but...man. It really doesn't get more simple than that.
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| 15:44 | <nubae> they are here: www.nubae.com/logs/
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc> ogra: do you care if we change LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED (boolean) and LDM_TIMEOUT_TIME (# seconds) to simply LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT (# seconds) ?
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| 15:45 | <ogra> not at all
| |
| 15:45 | <johnny> can somebody please show me a nice threaded view of htis topic
| |
| 15:45 | so i can feel dumber please?
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| 15:45 | <ogra> t wont get into intrepid, so we might need to keep the documented option
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| 15:45 | <Lns> johnny: follow the ltsp-discuss link on the ubuntu wiki
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| 15:45 | johnny: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/
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| 15:46 | ChanServ sets mode: +o jammcq | |
| 15:46 | <jammcq> :)
| |
| 15:46 | <ogra> vagrantc, i would apreciate if the layout mangling didnt hapen btw
| |
| 15:46 | if(allowguest) gtk_box_pack_start(GTK_BOX(vbox), guestbox, FALSE, FALSE, 0);
| |
| 15:46 | thats just evil
| |
| 15:46 | <vagrantc> ogra: i have no idea what any of that is about.
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| 15:47 | <ogra> the box need to always be there
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| 15:47 | vagrantc, someone submitted that code
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| 15:47 | it was definately not me
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> ogra: most likely Ryan52
| |
| 15:47 | jammcq changes topic to "LTSP-5 is the current version that you should be using. Check out Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora and Suse for awesome integration. Gentoo is getting very close. #ltsp IRC logs at: http://www.nubae.com/logs/" | |
| 15:48 | <ogra> if you see such code in review, ask the coder to keep the layout element persistent and only hide its contents (like we do in all other code thats similar)
| |
| 15:48 | jammcq, urgh
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's all gibberish to me, so i have no idea how to review it.
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| 15:48 | <jammcq> ogra: what's the problem my friend?
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> ogra: i tested it, it didn't seem to break anything.
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| 15:49 | <ogra> jammcq, so you learn all the omnious kiwi commands to help people out ?
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| 15:49 | <jammcq> ogra: I thought they already handled that little issue
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| 15:49 | <ogra> jammcq, no
| |
| 15:49 | <jammcq> ok
| |
| 15:50 | <ogra> you need to exactly know the kiwi command syntax and its config file to apply a change to their ltsp
| |
| 15:50 | what made you think they changed anything ?
| |
| 15:50 | jammcq changes topic to "LTSP-5 is the current version that you should be using. Check out Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora for awesome integration. Gentoo is getting very close and Opensuse has kiwi-ltsp. IRC logs at: http://www.nubae.com/logs/" | |
| 15:50 | <jammcq> ogra: they changed the name of it
| |
| 15:50 | <ogra> where ? o_O
| |
| 15:51 | <jammcq> they dropped the 'kiwi' part of the name
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| 15:51 | it's something like opensuse-ltsp5
| |
| 15:51 | <ogra> i didnt get any answer from zonker ever and there was definately no change in the code
| |
| 15:51 | <Gadi> uh oh - irc logs - gotta watch what I say
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| 15:51 | although, this means my IRC humor can be retained for posterity
| |
| 15:51 | <jammcq> Gadi: don't worry, we'll just strong-arm nubae to delete any incriminating comments
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| 15:52 | <ogra> so you need to know the kiwi.cfg, the options and their names as well as what they do
| |
| 15:52 | <Gadi> is it just me or are his calendars sideways?
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| 15:52 | <jammcq> ogra: ok, changed it already, happy now?
| |
| 15:52 | <ogra> and the kiwi commands to actually make them apply
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| 15:52 | jammcq, no, but thats nothing you can solve :)
| |
| 15:52 | i'll be happy if you can do:
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| 15:52 | !docs
| |
| 15:52 | <ltspbot> ogra: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
| |
| 15:53 | <Gadi> why would they make sideways calendars?
| |
| 15:53 | <ogra> and what you get applies 100% to suse ltsp
| |
| 15:53 | <jammcq> hmm, /me wonders if there's a limit to the size of the topic
| |
| 15:53 | <ogra> there is
| |
| 15:53 | * Gadi tries to think of a programmatic reason | |
| 15:53 | jammcq changes topic to "LTSP-5 is the current version that you should be using. Check out Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora for awesome integration. Gentoo is getting very close and Opensuse has kiwi-ltsp. IRC logs at: http://www.nubae.com/logs/, LTSP Docs: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream" | |
| 15:53 | <ogra> but you only use a third of that yet or some such
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| 15:54 | <nubae> :-)
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| 15:54 | <jammcq> Febriary
| |
| 15:54 | hmm, makes me wonder where Nubae is from
| |
| 15:54 | <ogra> thats japanese ;)
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| 15:55 | <jammcq> neat-o
| |
| 15:55 | * ogra is kidding indeed | |
| 15:55 | <ogra> yay
| |
| 15:55 | <jammcq> ok, if we're done modifying the topic, can anybody tell me how to de-op myself?
| |
| 15:55 | <nubae> Nubae is actually an old African Tribe... the Nubae
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| 15:55 | * ogra has a greeter with free floating logo and input field | |
| 15:55 | * jammcq doesn't like walking around with his fangs exposed | |
| 15:55 | <nubae> but hey, I didnt know that until recently, I just like the way it sounds
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: would you be interested in the cleanup ogra wanted, and possibly changing the LDM_TIMEOUT_* to LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT ?
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| 15:56 | <ogra> vagrantc, its fine as is now
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| 15:56 | i'll soon come up with a completely new greeter
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> oh
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| 15:57 | well, still would be nice to get the LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT changes ...
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| 15:57 | <ogra> thats going fast enough here that i even might be ready before ubuntureleases
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| 15:57 | do what you like in the current upstream
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| 15:57 | i'm unlikely to pull anything from teher before release
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| 15:58 | <Gadi> ok, kids - have a good weekend
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| 15:58 | <ogra> and i will base the new greeters functionallity on upstream code so the sooner it changes the better
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| 15:58 | <Gadi> this sideways calendar is telling me its time to go ;)
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| 15:58 | <ogra> xrandr FTW :)
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| 15:58 | just rotate your screen
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| 15:59 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 15:59 | * ogra ponders to put the "username" string above the input field by default in the new version | |
| 16:00 | <Tshital> Any one tell me how to pass video mode numbers to kernel?? i have ASUS tiny laptop (7" screen) which is conflicting with boot screen, when i give kernel option vga=786 i get some blurred cursor while booting, can any one tell me exact number?? i also get this http://pastebin.com/m1faf0768 while booting, if i give either of 0 to 6 it will boot fine
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| 16:05 | <Lns> Tshital: I think you can probably just edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default for kernel options
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| 16:41 | <nubae> hmmmm... I need to rename a large set of files to their date created - 1 day.... any easy way to do that?
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| 16:44 | <zoredache> it would probably be a pretty easy python/perl script to write. I don't know of anything that already exists to do something like that
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| 16:45 | <stgraber> or as a bash script (for file in *, then get the date from the file, do the -1 and rename $file to that)
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| 16:45 | <nubae> yeah I was hoping not to have to think... but guess its not super hard
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| 16:47 | indradg__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:49 | <Lns> nubae: haha.. "Can't someone just make me a script?"
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| 16:52 | <nubae> Lns: :-) I've almost got it...
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| 16:53 | its to convert the archived #ltsp logs
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| 16:53 | <Lns> oh sweet
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| 16:55 | <nubae> For file in *
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| 16:55 | do
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| 16:55 | FILE=$1
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| 16:55 | NOW=$(ls -l --time-style="+%b %e, %Y %k%M" $FILE | awk '{ print $6"-"$7"-"$8 }' | sed -e 's/,//g')
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| 16:55 | cp $FILE "$NOW.$FILE"
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| 16:55 | echo "File $FILE == $NOW.$FILE"
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| 16:55 | done
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| 16:55 | more or less right?
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| 16:56 | <Ryan52> nubae: you should use stat instead of ls.
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| 16:56 | <nubae> ah wait, it needs FILES=/path/to/files and then for file in $FILES
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| 16:57 | right?
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| 16:57 | <Ryan52> nubae: FILE=$1 is wrong...I think...what are you trying to do there?
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| 16:58 | the name of the current file in the for loop is in the variable $file already.
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| 16:58 | <nubae> yeah, should be different variable I guess... I'm trying to rename all files in a dir to their datestamp
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| 16:59 | <stgraber> for file in * <--- that means $file will contain a different filename each time the do part is called
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| 17:00 | <nubae> right
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| 17:00 | <stgraber> so you can get rid of FILE=$1 and just use $file
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| 17:00 | <nubae> yeah makes sense
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| 17:01 | * nubae is still new at bashing | |
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| 17:16 | <stgraber> for those of you who want to try ltsp-cluster, I have put my howto for a demo server online: https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster/Documentation/TestSetup
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| 17:16 | the doc should be right as I used it to install a couple of server, it still lacks a lot of explanation on how thing works though
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| 17:17 | (and also documentation on how to add more application servers, add NX support, ... well lots of thing I have on my todo list)
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| 17:17 | johnny has left #ltsp | |
| 17:18 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:18 | <stgraber> packages are also taken from our PPA so although we do some QA on them, it's not perfectly stable and still contains quite a lot of bugs (from typing mistakes to more severe design mistake that we are working on)
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| 17:19 | oh and the documentation doesn't cover the centralized user accounts part as our demo servers are usually using autologin with user accounts generated right before they connect
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| 17:20 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "cargo cult patch for LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT" (48 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/47
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> i'm not really sure i understood how it was working ... but maybe that should work
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| 17:22 | <stgraber> vagrantc: isn't that exactly the same code but using an extra function (why ?) and a different env variable ?
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| 17:22 | <vagrantc> stgraber: almost
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| 17:22 | <vagrantc> stgraber: converting two different variables with different types into a single variable
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| 17:24 | <stgraber> hmm, I'm not really familiar with C (other than debugging) but shouldn't get_timeout_boolean() actually return timeout_enabled ?
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> actually, it should probably just return TRUE or FALSE
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| 17:24 | <stgraber> yeah
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| 17:24 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: no need for the if.
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| 17:24 | vagrantc: the getenv_bool returns true or false.
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| 17:25 | you can just change the function to a void and have it set the timeout_enabled var, since that var is a global.
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| 17:25 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: oh, that's wrong then ...
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| 17:25 | Ryan52: it's not a boolean value
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| 17:25 | so can't use ldm_getenv_bool
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| 17:26 | <Ryan52> oh, that's true. blah.
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| 17:26 | so just atio it. if the return value is 0 set it to false...
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> my intention was just to check if the environment variable was set
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| 17:26 | <nubae> stgraber: dd
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| 17:26 | did u say cluster uses ldap for authentication?
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| 17:26 | cant recall
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: what's atio? how's it work?
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| 17:27 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: timeout_enabled = (atio(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT")) > 0 ? TRUE : FALSE)
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| 17:27 | atio converts a string to integer.
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| 17:27 | <stgraber> nubae: depends on our customers. When they don't have an existing network, we use LDAP (openldap), otherwise we use what they have so either Novell or Microsoft
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| 17:27 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: wait no. that's wrong.
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| 17:27 | timeout_enabled = (getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") == NULL ? TRUE : FALSE)
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| 17:27 | getenv will return NULL if it's not set.
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| 17:28 | wait that should be a !=.
| |
| 17:28 | * Ryan52 needs to think before pressing enter. | |
| 17:28 | <stgraber> nubae: basically ltsp-cluster is about load balancing and having a central place for the thin clients configuration. Then you can choose any authentication system on the application servers as you'd with a standard workstation
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| 17:30 | <nubae> k, will have to check it out some time... not every day one needs clustering though... how big a setup do u use it for normally?
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| 17:31 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: try this: http://slexy.org/view/s21wFdBnih
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| 17:32 | <stgraber> nubae: we use it for our own network (25 clients) but most of our customers have over 1k
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| 17:36 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: isn't that just setting timeout_enabled in the update_timeout_boolean function ?
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| 17:36 | <Ryan52> yes
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| 17:37 | it's a global variable.
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 17:37 | * vagrantc wondered why it gets set twice | |
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| 17:37 | <Ryan52> follow the code. it makes sense.
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| 17:37 | <nubae> ok, date script worked, but of course the 1 of the month changed to 0 of the month :p
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| 17:38 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i can only follow so far without understanding C :)
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| 17:38 | <alkisg1> nubae, http://lists.clug.org.za/pipermail/clug-tech/2003-October/011245.html
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| 17:39 | alkisg1 is now known as alkisg | |
| 17:40 | <Ryan52> it sets it back if you empty the entry box after typing stuff, I think.
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| 17:40 | or something like that.
| |
| 17:40 | * Ryan52 only has your diff in front of him, not the actual code :P | |
| 17:40 | <ltsppbot> "Nubae" pasted "convert all files to date -1 day" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/48
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| 17:40 | <nubae> alkisg: I did that, and that worked, but the the -1 part affected the 1 of the month files and put them to 0
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| 17:41 | just a couple files though so I can do that part manually
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| 17:41 | <alkisg> nubae, I think you should convert the date to seconds since epoch and subtract 86400, then back to date. I'm new to bash too though... :)
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| 17:43 | <nubae> strained my head enough for now... but thanks...
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> nubae, e.g. in your case I'd do find . -type f -printf "mv\t%f\t%Ad-%Am-%Ay\n" and then edit the output with openoffice calc to subtract 1 day! :D :D :D After that I'd just save and run the produced script!
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| 17:45 | <nubae> the -1 day part was easy... just $7-1
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| 17:46 | <alkisg> Yes, but oo wouldn't put 0 for days
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| 17:46 | <nubae> ah right :-)
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| 17:49 | <ogra> there we go
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| 17:49 | http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm-new-greeter.png
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| 17:49 | both items are freely placeable
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| 17:51 | <alkisg> ogra, very nice! The bounding box is part of the background or a gtk panel? (if it's called that way, I'm mostly a Delphi programmer)
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| 17:52 | <ogra> the boudng box is tied to the input box and a semi transparent png
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| 17:53 | currently people replacing it need to use the same aspect ratio, but you could do a shadow that drops in or something else
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| 17:54 | thats the only constraint ...
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> Why don't you leave the shadow/transparency to the background designers?
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| 17:54 | <ogra> sure, they can do what they want
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> Oh, background scales based on screen size...
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| 17:54 | <ogra> indeed
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| 17:54 | it did that before
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| 17:55 | the wallpaer code is just copy pasted
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| 17:55 | the important part is that the elements wont influence each other anymore
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| 17:55 | and that they are freely placeable
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> Very good, we'll be seeing ldm themes soon!!! ;)
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| 17:56 | <ogra> you can put the logo in the top left corner and the input in the bottom right or whatever you desire
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| 17:57 | i just need to port all items from the old one first, then merge the greeter code and we have something fully themeable ...
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| 17:57 | <vagrantc> ogra: backwards compatible with old themes?
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| 17:57 | <ogra> beyond that it will be a lot easier to add new items
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| 17:57 | vagrantc, not completely
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| 17:57 | <Ryan52> ogra: very nice!
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| 17:57 | <ogra> i want to make the bounding box mandatory, so you would have to copy in the boundingbox.png
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| 17:57 | * Ryan52 thinks of the mess of that fedora patch, and thinks of how much simpler it is now. | |
| 17:58 | <vagrantc> fedora patch?
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| 17:58 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: fedora's stuff is completely rearranged.
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| 17:58 | <ogra> vagrantc, i plan something similar (png themed bar) for teh bottom bar
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| 17:58 | so these two pixmaps need to go in
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| 17:59 | yeah, that will be easily possible in the new greeter
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| 17:59 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: http://ryan52.info/~ryan52/K12linux-loginscreen-mockuprh.png
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| 17:59 | <ogra> warren just needs to supply a file that holds the positions of stuff
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| 18:00 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 18:02 | <ogra> thats only a first shot though, i'll eed to apply a lot math still, currently i set pixel values to move the items off center, that needs to become percentages
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| 18:03 | so it scales properly with the screen size
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| 18:06 | sbalneav needs to supply me a sensitivity command from greeter_iface and i will add a fullscreen fade-to-grey option during password verification etc
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| 18:06 | <nubae> gah... math.. :-)
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| 18:12 | * ogra just realizes that it wil be possible to hide the input field and just show a guest button as well :) | |
| 18:12 | <johnny> that would be useful to me
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| 18:12 | <Ryan52> why wouldn't you just skip the greeter in that case?
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| 18:12 | <stgraber> ogra: rocks !!!
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| 18:12 | <johnny> to allow people to shut down Ryan52
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| 18:12 | <Ryan52> ah
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| 18:13 | <johnny> then again.. the timeout will be good enough
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| 18:13 | <ogra> right
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| 18:13 | Lns has quit IRC | |
| 18:13 | <ogra> yeah, but there are environments where you might not want people to tinker with the input and just have them click to log in
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| 18:13 | internet cafes etc
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| 18:14 | LDM_USERNAME/PASSWORD predefined and a locked down session
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| 18:14 | <nubae> what would be cool is a timer for internet cafes
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| 18:14 | something that automatically logs out after set time
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| 18:15 | <johnny> that's soemthing my people want
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| 18:15 | <ogra> i moved all UI parts out of the main() function and into subfunctions, so you can just en/disable parts based on variables
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| 18:15 | <johnny> but.. you also need to allow a way to stop it.. i haven't figured out how
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| 18:15 | since if nobodoy is waiting, people are allowed to stay as long as they want
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| 18:15 | <ogra> thats something you should probably do through Xsession.d
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| 18:16 | start a counter process with the session
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| 18:16 | <nubae> kinda needs a backend on the server, otherwise its kinda useless
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| 18:16 | <ogra> updating a file every mintue from it or so
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| 18:17 | <nubae> although school I was working at wanted to limit usage for each user to 5 minutes during break time...
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| 18:17 | <ogra> easy to do from such a process
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| 18:18 | <nubae> yeah, so many ideas, so little time
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| 18:18 | :-)
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| 18:18 | <ogra> that takes probably 2h to write in python
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| 18:18 | or even less
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| 18:18 | <nubae> for super cow, yes... not for a calf like me
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| 18:19 | <ogra> well, for you probably a day in shell :)
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> vagrantc, for the code you pasted in pastebot, timeout_enabled = ldm_getenv_bool("LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED"); should become timeout_enabled = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT")) > 0;
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| 18:20 | <ogra> does taht cope with LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT="oeizcn" ?
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, i figured we could add additional error checking later
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> ogra, yes, it's considered 0
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| 18:20 | <ogra> ok
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| 18:20 | * ogra rarely uses atoi | |
| 18:20 | * alkisg too, but I tested this! :P | |
| 18:20 | <ogra> cool
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| 18:22 | <Ryan52> alkisg: no.
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| 18:22 | alkisg: because getenv returns null if it's not set.
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| 18:22 | so just check if it's not NULL.
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> Ryan52, right
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| 18:23 | <vagrantc> so there should be another check that checks if the value is valid
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| 18:25 | Ryan52: does getenv treat an empty value as NULL ?
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| 18:25 | i.e. LDM_FOO=""
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| 18:25 | <Ryan52> iirc, it treats it as an empty string...
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> So, in a oneliner, timeout_enabled = atoi(getenv("LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED") != NULL ? getenv("LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED") : "") > 0; but it should probably be stored in a variable to avoid calling getenv 2 times.
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> need to make sure it's an integer....
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| 18:28 | * Ryan52 thinks an if should be used instead of : ? | |
| 18:28 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: atio makes it into an integer.
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| 18:28 | err, atoi
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> vagrantc, even if it's a string it gets 0
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 18:29 | * vagrantc wonders if the code handles negative values ... | |
| 18:29 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: which code?
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> vagrantc, from a quick look, the old code would need 2^64-1 seconds to login for timeout == -1... :P
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| 18:31 | with the new semantics, if timeout_enabled checks for negative values, it's enough
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| 18:31 | <Ryan52> that's a good feature :). a quick way to set a really long timeout. :P
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| 18:32 | * Ryan52 notices that we are back to the LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED variable name all of the sudden... | |
| 18:32 | <alkisg> My bad, copy/pasted...
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| 18:33 | I meant LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT
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| 18:36 | <nubae> cool the logbot managed to integrated sbalneav's irc logs: http://www.nubae.com/logs/
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| 18:53 | <vagrantc> ok, well, the patch without error checking works fine.
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| 18:53 | i even tried it with LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT=foo
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| 18:53 | which properly sets it to 0
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| 18:54 | though it displays "will automatically log in in 0 seconds"
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| 18:55 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: so use: timeout_enabled = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") != NULL ? getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") : "") > 0
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| 18:55 | if your still doing "timeout_enabled = the_function_just_added();", don't.
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| 18:55 | set timeout_enabled in the function.
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| 18:56 | <rjune_> !seen jammcq
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| 18:56 | <ltspbot> rjune_: jammcq was last seen in #ltsp 3 hours and 35 seconds ago: * jammcq doesn't like walking around with his fangs exposed
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: in the update_timeout_boolean function?
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| 18:58 | <Ryan52> yes, put that one liner in the update_timeout_boolean.
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| 18:59 | * vagrantc doesn't understand the ? syntax | |
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| 18:59 | <Ryan52> conditions ? value_if_true : value_if_false
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| 19:01 | <vagrantc> yeah, still doing timeount_enabled in the function
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| 19:01 | can just put a conditional in there, no?
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| 19:01 | * Ryan52 is confused as to what vagrantc is asking | |
| 19:02 | * vagrantc will post diffs | |
| 19:04 | <alkisg> vagrantc, better do it right. Just declare a gint login_timeout at the top, it'll make the code a lot easier to read and no function will be required. Can you post your current greeter.c to pastebot?
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| 19:04 | <Ryan52> alkisg: why would a function not be required?
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| 19:04 | it's better than having two copies of the code.
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| 19:05 | <alkisg> So only a getenv will be executed
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| 19:05 | <Ryan52> oh. I see what you mean.
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| 19:05 | <alkisg> Ryan52, timeout_enabled = login_timeout > 0;
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| 19:05 | Much easier to understand
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| 19:06 | <Ryan52> ya, and then just do this once: login_timeout = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") != NULL ? getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") : "")
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| 19:06 | right?
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| 19:06 | <alkisg> No, not at all!!!
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| 19:06 | Ah, ok, but with if :)
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| 19:06 | <Ryan52> ya
| |
| 19:07 | really, then we don't even need a timeout_enabled.
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| 19:07 | we can just test "login_timeout > 0" everywhere where we are using it..
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| 19:07 | oh, no, nevermind. it's updated based on other conditions.
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| 19:08 | <alkisg> No, login_timeout is not updated, (it's a new var I just proposed), timeout_left is the one being updated
| |
| 19:08 | <Ryan52> ya, I get it, timeout_left and timeout_enabled get changed throughout the execution as they currently do.
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> yeap
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| 19:09 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "patch for LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT without much error handling" (48 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/49
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> so, i tested that, and it mostly works.
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| 19:09 | based on current ldm-trunk
| |
| 19:10 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: so at the beginning of main (where we do other getenv and such) add this: login_timeout = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") != NULL ? getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") : "")
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> start over, or just tweak the current patch?
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| 19:11 | <Ryan52> umm...just start over.
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| 19:11 | then change the 'timeout_left = atoi(getenv("LDM_TIMEOUT_TIME"));
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| 19:12 | ' to setting it from login_timeout.
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| 19:12 | and change the 'timeout_enabled = ldm_getenv_bool("LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED");'s to timeout_enabled = login_timeout > 0;
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| 19:13 | <alkisg> vagrantc, also declare gint login_timeout; at the beginning, right before gint timeout_left;
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| 19:14 | keithclark has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:14 | * Ryan52 thought he said that already...Ryan52 needs to multitask less. | |
| 19:14 | <alkisg> heh!
| |
| 19:15 | <vagrantc> ok, so i think i've got everything but where to put ... 17:10 < Ryan52> vagrantc: so at the beginning of main (where we do other getenv and such) add this: login_timeout = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") != NULL ? getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") : "")
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| 19:16 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: look for the big set of ldm_getenv_bools...
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> i think that's in src/ldm.c rather than greeter.c
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| 19:17 | somewhere at the top of main, though ...
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| 19:17 | <Ryan52> anywhere before use the login_timeout and before we set the timer to call the timeout function
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| 19:18 | <alkisg> vagrantc, replace timeout_enabled = ldm_getenv_bool("LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED"); with what Ryan said
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> yeah, i got that.
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| 19:18 | <alkisg> and delete one of the two continuous 'timeout_left = 0;' below, it's reduntant
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| 19:18 | <Ryan52> alkisg: he did that earlier today.
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| 19:19 | <alkisg> no, I meant with the initialization, that's where it should go
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| 19:19 | In main:
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| 19:19 | timeout_enabled = ldm_getenv_bool("LDM_TIMEOUT_ENABLED");
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| 19:19 | timeout_left = 0;
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| 19:19 | timeout_left = 0;
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> already commented those out
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| 19:19 | <alkisg> The getenv should go there
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> i actually removed the second timeout_left = 0 earlier today :)
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| 19:20 | * Ryan52 has noticed those 2 lines for a while, but never remembered to take them out. | |
| 19:20 | <Ryan52> bzr needs a "git add -i"
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| 19:20 | (lets you commit part of the file, but not all)
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i use bzr shelve to handle that
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| 19:21 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "use login_timeout" (41 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/50
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> how's that look?
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| 19:22 | oops ...
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| 19:22 | <Ryan52> timeout_left = timeout_left;
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| 19:22 | oh, ya.
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> other than that?
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| 19:22 | <Ryan52> + login_timeout = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") != NULL ? getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") : "")
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| 19:22 | missing semicolon
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| 19:23 | otherwise, looks right.
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| 19:24 | <vagrantc> timeout_enabled = login_timeout > 0; ????
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| 19:24 | * Ryan52 nods | |
| 19:24 | <vagrantc> set's it to NULL if not grater than 0 ?
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| 19:24 | <alkisg> vagrantc, it sets it to false (= 0)
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| 19:24 | <Ryan52> no, sets it to false.
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> close enough :)
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> if you don't like the ? : syntax, you may also use this:
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| 19:25 | if (getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") != NULL)
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| 19:25 | login_timeout = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT");
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| 19:25 | else
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| 19:25 | login_timeout = 0;
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| 19:25 | <Ryan52> alkisg: use curly braces
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> *missing a )
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| 19:25 | <Ryan52> if you don't you'll have to listen to ogra nag at you
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> Ryan52, even with single statements? !!! wow... :)
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> i like the readability of using an actual if statement, yes.
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| 19:26 | <Ryan52> alkisg: ya, I knwo.
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| 19:26 | err, know
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| 19:29 | <vagrantc> if (getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT") != NULL) ... works properly if FALSE ?
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| 19:30 | <Ryan52> ya...
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| 19:32 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "timeout patch with if statement ..." (46 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/51
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| 19:32 | <alkisg> vagrantc, a ) missing
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| 19:33 | login_timeout = atoi(getenv("LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT"));
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> fixed.
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| 19:33 | <Ryan52> you still didn't fix teh: + timeout_left = login_timeout;
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| 19:33 | nevermind
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 19:33 | * Ryan52 misread that | |
| 19:34 | * vagrantc compiles | |
| 19:34 | <alkisg> maybe it should be named ldm_login_timeout to resemble the environment variable... :P
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| 19:34 | (kidding)
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| 19:35 | <Ryan52> hehe
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| 19:37 | <vagrantc> i wouldn't be opposed to that ...
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| 19:48 | looks like it's working to me ...
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| 19:48 | tested with setting LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT to 0, 10, 5 and foo
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> of course, if they set it to True or something, it will silently behave as if 0 were set ...
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| 19:49 | but what can you do?
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT=True? !!! Maybe then it should be named LDM_LOGIN_TIMEOUT_*SECS* :P :P :P (or they could just shoot themselves)
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> g'night, everyone
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: thanks for your help!
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> vagrantc, me thanks for ltsp! :)
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> well, can easily implement backwards compatibility in the screen script ...
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| 20:00 | <jammcq> hey homies
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> ah hell... i forgot to give alkisg and Ryan52 credit in my commit ...
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| 20:01 | sorry about that.
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| 20:09 | <rjune_> jammcq !
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| 20:09 | did you get a phone call?
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| 20:09 | <jammcq> rjune_: nope
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| 20:09 | nothing yet
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| 20:09 | <rjune_> you probably wont' then
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| 20:09 | I got the offer letter today
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| 20:09 | <jammcq> hmm, oh?
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| 20:10 | that's a good thing, right?
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| 20:11 | <rjune_> I think so
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| 20:11 | DOD clearance is next step
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| 20:11 | <jammcq> oooh
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| 20:11 | hope that goes well for you
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| 20:14 | <rjune_> me too
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| 20:16 | <rjune_> don't think you'll get a call for that one though
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| 20:16 | which is unfortunate
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