IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 March 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:44 | <cyberorg> warren, what does ltsp-client-launch do?
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| 01:11 | <johnny_> looks like the rootpass common file isn't common for gentoo :)
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| 01:11 | guess i should override it
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| 01:11 | our chroot is in /usr/bin/chroot not /usr/sbin
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| 01:13 | <cyberorg> it would make our lives so much easier if all distros sit together and use same names and locations for all their packages
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| 01:30 | <johnny_> i don't see that as being feasible sadly
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| 01:30 | like the usage of libexec dir
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| 01:30 | or how to do runlevels
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| 01:31 | seems like we could easily fix this situation with a variable
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| 01:32 | i made it all the way to rootpass without a problem :)
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| 01:32 | build is almost complete i think
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| 01:32 | except the silly kernel :(
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| 04:52 | <yanu> me to :)
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| 09:00 | <vagrantc> warren: looking at mkdst ... seems like --from-tag assumes a $NAME-$VERSION format for the tag?
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| 09:10 | <vagrantc> warren: i'm committing a debtar command, as it needs to output a different tarball name ...
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| 11:08 | <warren> vagrantc, how different?
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| 11:14 | vagrantc_, uh...
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| 11:15 | vagrantc_, the entire point of a tarball is for it to be a single upstream tarball
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| 11:15 | <vagrantc_> warren: it merely uses a different tarball name
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| 11:15 | <vagrantc_> warren: generates the same file ...
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| 11:15 | <warren> vagrantc_, debian renames all tarballs from elsewhere?
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| 11:16 | vagrantc_, from upstream elsewhere?
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| 11:16 | <vagrantc_> warren: NAME_VERSION.orig.tar.gz
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| 11:16 | warren: as opposed to NAME-VERSION.tar.gz
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| 11:17 | <warren> vagrantc_, debian downloads tarballs from elsewhere and renames them before uploading them to their own source repository?
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| 11:18 | <vagrantc_> warren: correct.
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| 11:18 | <warren> OK, I find that strange, but if hte contents are same then I guess OK.
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| 11:20 | <vagrantc_> warren: i merely patched it so it was possible to generate a tarball with a different name. no changes to contents.
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| 14:48 | <johnny> is thre a reason chroot is called by full path in some places, and not others?
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| 14:51 | <jammcq> nobios: hey, will you be at FISL ?
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| 14:52 | <nobios> jammcq: not this year
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| 14:52 | <johnny> vagrantc_, you here?
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| 14:53 | <jammcq> hmm, I'll be there again
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| 14:53 | <nobios> jammcq: I get a lot of work, and will not have time this year
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| 14:54 | <jammcq> it's good to have alot of work
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| 14:54 | <nobios> jammcq: good and bad ;)
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| 14:54 | jammcq: but my friends will probably be there...
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| 14:58 | <johnny> well the common scripts were almost common enough :)
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc_> johnny: what's up?
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| 15:21 | <johnny> is there a reason the common/095-rootpass uses fullpath to chroot?
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc_> probably not
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| 15:21 | oh
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| 15:21 | well...
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| 15:22 | no
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| 15:22 | johnny: is that an issue for you?
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| 15:22 | <johnny> yes
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| 15:22 | gentoo's chroot is in /usr/bin
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| 15:22 | <vagrantc_> heh
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| 15:22 | <johnny> maybe we should provide some common variables for these commands?
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| 15:23 | in some ini type file
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| 15:23 | outside of the plugin scripts
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| 15:23 | <vagrantc_> i've actually worked on writing a wrapper or function to replace chroot
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| 15:23 | <johnny> this would also be similiar to the nc/netcat discussion
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| 15:29 | <johnny> YAY!
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| 15:29 | info: LTSP client installation completed successfully
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| 15:30 | now time to build the kernel..
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| 15:30 | there is this tho
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| 15:30 | RROR: Neither /var/log/messages nor /var/log/syslog exists. Unable to log.
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| 15:31 | too bad the error doesn't say where it comes from :(
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| 15:32 | <vagrantc_> johnny: ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 15:32 | <johnny> i was gonna grep after i ranted :)
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| 15:33 | i use metalog on my desktop..
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| 15:33 | cuz it comes with the best default config file, and has an nice directory layout
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| 15:34 | <vagrantc_> there is such inconsistant use of logging in the various projects (ltsp, ldm, ltspfs)
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| 15:34 | <vagrantc_> that would be a great meta-project
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| 15:34 | <johnny> metalog doesn't have network logging tho
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| 15:35 | so, i guess i'll install syslog-ng
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| 15:35 | at least now i know the issue
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc_> rsyslog also looks promising
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| 15:35 | <johnny> why?
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| 15:35 | you mean for the clients?
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc_> instead of syslog-ng ...
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| 15:35 | <johnny> we have no ebuild for that, i've never heard of it
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| 15:35 | search tiem
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| 15:36 | <vagrantc_> i got the impression syslog-ng was dead upstream
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| 15:36 | maybe it's active again
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| 15:37 | <johnny> aha.. now default in fedora
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| 15:37 | and we don't even have an ebuild..
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| 15:37 | :(
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| 15:37 | <vagrantc_> syslog-ng has two release-critical bugs on debian
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| 15:38 | <johnny> will debian switch?
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc_> one of them 283 days old
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| 15:38 | <johnny> so, what was this chroot script you spoke of?
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| 15:39 | <vagrantc_> well, some things (at least in debian) need /proc mounted, and /dev/pts mounted, etc ... so writing an ltsp-chroot binary that ensures those are mounted and unmounts them when done (if nothing else is using the mounts)
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| 15:39 | could probably introduce other hooks as well
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| 15:40 | <johnny> to do what?
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| 15:40 | i mean, what would ltsp-chroot be used for?
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| 15:40 | <ogra_cmpc_> open a shell in the chroot
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| 15:40 | <johnny> for?
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| 15:40 | other than installing packages
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| 15:40 | <ogra_cmpc_> with all prerequisites fulfilled
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| 15:40 | <vagrantc_> johnny: did you miss the part about needing /proc and /dev/pts mounted?
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| 15:40 | <johnny> for ? just dpkg ?
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| 15:41 | or what else
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| 15:41 | <ogra_cmpc_> configuring
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| 15:41 | modifying
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| 15:41 | adjusting
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc_> johnny: well, because i'm not omniscient, and know that, i know *sometimes* people need things i can't think of, so if i need a special case, i make my special case a hook so others who have different needs can easily add to it
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| 15:42 | <johnny> i wasn't denigrating, just wondering
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| 15:42 | i've often modified my chroot, but usually just files
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| 15:43 | * ogra_cmpc_ just installed to a SDHC card on the classmate ... that thing is faster than my 4200rpm laptop disk | |
| 15:45 | <johnny> when do you think you will push said script?
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| 15:45 | if not soon, could you remove the path from chroot for me?
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| 15:45 | <ogra_cmpc_> its up somewhere
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc_> i think it's probably better to start from scratch, there are so many changes
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| 15:46 | * ogra_cmpc_ will release http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-image-shell/ after hardy is out | |
| 15:46 | <vagrantc_> we could also have it detect which chroot to use
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| 15:46 | <ogra_cmpc_> well
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| 15:46 | <johnny> so, do you guys all mark ltsp-build-client executable in your packages?
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc_> ah, you're talking about that thingy
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| 15:46 | <johnny> is there a reason you couldn't just mark it +x in the branch?
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc_> johnny: to the explicit purpose of being stubborn. :P
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| 15:47 | <johnny> that's silly :(
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| 15:49 | <vagrantc_> johnny: committed.
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| 15:49 | <johnny> the codebrowse is broken on launchpad again :(
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| 15:49 | <ogra_cmpc_> url ?
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| 15:50 | <johnny> PROXY ERROR
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| 15:50 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/changes
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| 15:50 | <ogra_cmpc_> might be in maintenance mode
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| 15:50 | its weekend :)
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| 15:51 | <johnny> so, what did you commit ?
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| 15:51 | <ogra_cmpc_> thats where they usually add patches
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| 15:51 | <johnny> so i can back out my changes
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| 15:51 | weekend is my workend :)
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| 15:51 | <ogra_cmpc_> not mine (officially)
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| 15:51 | <johnny> now i just get to build the kernel, and i might have a booting client.. :)
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc_> johnny: your +x
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| 15:52 | <johnny> how about the chroot thing?
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| 15:52 | * ogra_cmpc_ is just here because he plays with new embedded HW | |
| 15:52 | <vagrantc_> johnny: ltsp-chroot is a complicated proposal i can't just whip up off the top of my head
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| 15:52 | but i could make the path relative in common scripts
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| 15:53 | johnny: can your average user actually use chroot on a regular basis?
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| 15:54 | seems like a bug to have it in /usr/bin to me
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| 15:54 | <ogra_cmpc_> woah
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| 15:54 | that would be evil
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| 15:54 | * vagrantc_ has higher expectations for evil | |
| 15:54 | <vagrantc_> it would just be annoying
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| 15:55 | <ogra_cmpc_> if normal users cvan create chroots right away ?
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| 15:55 | i consider that evil
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| 15:55 | <vagrantc_> heh
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| 15:55 | well, you don't use chroot to create a chroot ... just to switch to it
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| 15:56 | <ogra_cmpc_> well, cp is your frind
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| 15:56 | friend
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc_> without root permissions, there's not really anything you could do with the chroot binary you couldn't do on the system itself.
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| 15:56 | <ogra_cmpc_> then just compile the latest rootkit in your chroot and go ahead
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| 15:57 | you can use it to probe and abue vulnerabilities
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| 15:57 | *abuse
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| 15:58 | * vagrantc_ doesn't see how chroot really makes that any easier | |
| 15:58 | <ogra_cmpc_> you can build a dedicated sywstem
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc_> you can do that without chroot just as easily
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| 15:58 | <ogra_cmpc_> nothing you do will show up in the system logs for example
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| 15:59 | * vagrantc_ sees no improvement | |
| 15:59 | <ogra_cmpc_> you never hacked eh ?
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| 16:00 | if you want to take over a system you dont want traces of that
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc_> well, you can build your own binaries on the system itself that leave no trace of anything as well
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| 16:00 | <ogra_cmpc_> a chroot decouples yu from the main system
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| 16:02 | saves you to clean up
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc_> could just as easily do that with a custom shell
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| 16:02 | probably considerably easier
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| 16:02 | <ogra_cmpc_> probably
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| 16:03 | <johnny> either way..
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| 16:04 | <ogra_cmpc_> the chaos computer club in germany has a contest every year where teams try to hack each other ,,, very intresting
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| 16:04 | <johnny> my chroot is in /usr/bin, and has been such since iv'e used the distro iirc
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| 16:05 | <vagrantc_> johnny: i don't dispute that.
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| 16:05 | johnny: i dispute weather it's useful to have it there ... wonder if gentoo does something to make it useful.
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| 16:06 | johnny: and either way, i've made it a relative path in the script
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| 16:07 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc_, err
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| 16:07 | * ogra_cmpc_ just saw the change | |
| 16:07 | <ogra_cmpc_> warren might not be happy (he added that deliberately)
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| 16:07 | we didnt call it with path
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| 16:07 | thats a patch from eric
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| 16:08 | <johnny> perhaps some config variable then?
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc_> johnny: you know you can override common plugins by putting your version in your Gentoo directory
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| 16:10 | <johnny> i wasn't sure how that worked
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| 16:10 | whatever makes people happy..
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc_> johnny: same filenames, your distro dir will make it work
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| 16:11 | johnny: er, take precedence
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| 16:11 | <johnny> sorry, still learnin here :)
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc_> i.e. Gentoo/095-rootpass will run instead of common/095-rootpass
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| 16:13 | i should have paid attention
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| 16:13 | it seems silly to have it hard-coded
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| 16:14 | but i guess someone explicitly wanted it
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| 16:14 | warren: sorry about that
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| 16:14 | <johnny> considering it's not hardcoded at all in debian
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| 16:14 | or ubuntu
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| 16:14 | <johnny> just in fedora
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc_> just in common
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| 16:15 | pfft. and fedora even has their own 095-rootpass
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| 16:15 | <johnny> so then we don't revert?
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| 16:15 | or we do?
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc_> i'll leave it for now
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| 16:16 | i don't think our scripts should handle if people have wonky paths for root
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| 16:16 | er, wonky $PATH settings
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| 16:19 | <ogra_cmpc_> vagrantc_, i think the addition of the path predates the 095-rootpass plugin
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| 16:19 | (/usr/sbi to chroot i mean)
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| 16:19 | *sbin
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| 16:19 | <vagrantc_> ogra_cmpc_: no, it was added in recent fedora commits.
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| 16:19 | <ogra_cmpc_> thats weird
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| 16:20 | i thought i saw it before and then warren added the plugin
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| 16:20 | <vagrantc_> when you mentioned it, i looked at the commit logs
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| 16:20 | or do you mean fedora's rootpass plugin?
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| 16:20 | <ogra_cmpc_> yeah, i probably just remember it wrongly
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| 16:20 | nope
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| 16:21 | * vagrantc_ ponders a new ltsp upload to debian | |
| 16:21 | <ogra_cmpc_> go ahead :)
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| 16:21 | <vagrantc_> finally hit testing
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| 16:21 | <ogra_cmpc_> congrats
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| 16:21 | <vagrantc_> heh
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| 16:22 | of course, ldm's stalled out on slow buildd's :(
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| 16:22 | even with an RC security bug
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| 16:22 | <ogra_cmpc_> if you release in september you will actually be ahead of me once (in released versions)
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| 16:22 | <vagrantc_> heh
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| 16:23 | but there will probably be 2-3 months of freeze
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| 16:23 | <ogra_cmpc_> right
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| 16:23 | but if the release is in sept, you release before ubuntu
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc_> but i guess you have comparable freeze
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| 16:23 | <ogra_cmpc_> oct 10th
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| 16:23 | is release dat
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| 16:23 | e
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| 16:23 | * vagrantc_ hopes for september | |
| 16:24 | <ogra_cmpc_> no idea about the schedule yet sice they try to improve it all the time its constantly changing
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| 16:24 | so our freezes might be similar
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| 16:24 | <vagrantc_> early in the month gives you a couple weeks to postpone and still call it 8.10
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| 16:25 | it'd be slick if we could actually release sync'ed :)
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| 16:25 | <ogra_cmpc_> we only postponed one release yet (and i hope that wont happen again)
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| 16:25 | all others were on time at the planned date
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| 16:26 | so its unliikely that it will be delayed
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| 19:47 | <cdealer> good night. Beside the ssh and tftp ports what other ports must be open so the server and the client can be connect whtout problems?
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc_> cdealer: what linux distro and release?
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| 20:33 | <cdealer> ubuntu gutsy 7.10 ltsp 5
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc_> cdealer: look at services in /etc/inet.d/conf ...
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| 20:43 | cdealer: should be a block relating to LTSP
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| 20:43 | cdealer: egrep 'nbdrootd|nbdswapd|ldminfod' /etc/inetd.conf
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| 20:52 | <cdealer> oh thanks!
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc_> i think that covers all the LTSP-specific stuff
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