IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 October 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:53 | <Phantomas> vagrantc: Hey! I'm working on python bindings for libvncserver/client, is there any chance it could make it to debian repos when it's done?
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| 00:55 | not asking for promises of course, just your thoughts :)
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| 00:57 | <vagrantc> Phantomas: as long as the licensing is appropriate and it works, probably not a problem
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| 01:00 | <Phantomas> the original libvncserver license is gpl2, the bindings will probably be glp2 too. I plan on using the bindings in epoptes, so yeah, it's essential they work! :P
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| 01:02 | <vagrantc> Phantomas: i'd be happy to review package uploads and provide advice ... let me know when it's further along
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| 01:02 | * vagrantc heads out | |
| 01:02 | <Phantomas> awesome!
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| 08:50 | <aula> hola
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| 08:54 | <os_a> привет
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| 08:55 | can i limit system resource thin-clients users on ltsp-server? one user could not loading 100% ethernet, CPU, IOWait, memory on server.
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| 09:11 | <AletrasKostas> Καλημέρα (απο γυμνάσιο Βελισσαρίου), όταν ανοίγω δύο clients ubuntu και πάνε να ξεκινήσουν βγάζουν κάτι παράξενα γραφικά στην οθόνη και κολάνε. Στα windows ξεκινάνε κανονικά. help
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| 13:19 | <lbssousa> work_alkisg, Phantomas, about my proposed workaround for x11vnc "-grab{kbd,ptr}" issues, I've tested setting "Device Enabled" to 0, as you suggested. It works fine for my USB keyboard, but not for USB mouse. For some reason, my USB mouse is automatically re-enabled a few seconds after I tried to use it. I'll have to revert to my previous implementation for mouse (setting "Device Accel Constant Deceleration" to a huge factor).
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| 15:33 | <Tex> Just cut users over to new LTSP install (new server, rsync'd home dirs) and a user's print queue shows a stalled job from two weeks ago (printer reporting out of paper) How do we clear this out?
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| 15:50 | <Tex> \help
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| 16:00 | <bennabiy> Tex: We would need more info, but in general, it sounds like it is not an LTSP issue, but perhaps something with the new server permissions / setup?
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| 16:00 | Distro?
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| 16:00 | * bennabiy waves | |
| 16:00 | <bennabiy> I am leaving for now, but will be back later
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| 16:04 | <Tex> Thanks - I thought the same initially, however, the user is able to print to the new queue. If the queue info was specific to the prior server, it wouldn't make any sense that it would be visible after the cutover.
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| 16:04 | Ubuntu 14.04 > new Ubuntu 10.04 > old
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| 16:11 | <yopla> hello! Trying ltsp-build-client on Linux Mint lmde 2 (whichis same as jessie). It stops just after deboostrap with error : chroot locale-gen : no such file or directory
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| 16:20 | <yopla> well it is detected as ubuntu by default. I'll try with VENDOR=Debian
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| 16:24 | it Works better with vendo + distrib + mirror options
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| 16:49 | <work_alkisg> yopla: the mint packaging is heavily broken... it doesn't know if it wants to be a distro or a flavor, so many of its release configuration files don't make sense
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| 16:50 | ...and get overwriten when a new version of base-files gets installed...
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| 16:55 | <||cw> I'm still not sure what the point of mint is, cinnamon and mate have ubuntu packages and i really don't see any other difference beside how they mess up version dependencies
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| 16:56 | <yopla> ha Thanks.
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| 16:57 | <yopla> I've installed it on some laptop and it was working out of the box
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| 16:57 | <work_alkisg> Aren't all distros working out of the box?
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| 16:57 | What, do you mean about linux-firmware on debian having to be installed manually?
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| 16:58 | <yopla> yeah, but this one has nice default pakage s
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| 16:58 | and standard use happy qith it
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| 16:58 | <work_alkisg> Which package does it have different than e.g. ubuntu mate?
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| 16:59 | <yopla> user / with
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| 16:59 | <work_alkisg> Hard question? :)
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| 17:10 | <gax> hi guys, is anyone using ubuntu 14.04 for thin clients?
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| 17:15 | <Tex> yes gax
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| 17:15 | just rolled out a migration from 10.04 to 14.04
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| 17:17 | <gax> how many users do you have in each server?
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| 17:17 | <Tex> 1 server, just 30 users
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| 17:18 | <gax> what's the specs of your server?
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| 17:19 | i'm having trouble with high load
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| 17:21 | <Tex> SuperMicro 2U 3.xGHz(2) 16 core 22GB RAM with SSD OS and RAID5 10K platters for home dirs. We had to switch sessions from the GNOME 3 to GNOME Flashback (Metacity) in order for things to work for clients.
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| 17:23 | <gax> yeah, I have GNOME Flashback too
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| 17:23 | <Tex> server wasn't the issue in this case - the GNOME 3 was too much for tc hardware to handle alkisg noted 3D acceleration required - and no place for it in LTSP.
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| 17:24 | our prior server just couldn't handle FF sessions when upgrading to 40.x version of FF. Used ltsp-localapps before the new unit could be deployed, but even then the TCs ran out of memory/CPU cycles.
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| 17:27 | I use htop to i.d. high CPU consumers - there might be other tools, but this one works for me.
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| 17:28 | <gax> it's always chrome/firefox in the top list
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| 17:30 | I have 3 virtual servers with 20GB RAM, 8 core 2.5GHz, around 20 users per server
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| 17:41 | <alkisg> Isn't it cheaper to buy moderate fat clients instead of a monster server and thin clients?
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| 17:42 | Fat clients surely behave better wrt load, compositing DEs etc...
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| 18:00 | <Tex> the supermicro only cost $450 on the secondary market
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| 18:04 | I've never run an LTSP setup on VMs though - not sure the benefit short of load balancing.
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| 18:16 | <gax> Tex, what's the load average in the server?
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| 18:26 | <Tex> CPU?
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| 18:27 | <gax> yes
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> Btw, "3D... and no place for it in LTSP" ==> 3D runs fine in diskless ltsp fat clients, it's 3D over the network (thins) that have the problem
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| 18:29 | and secondary market fat clients only cost e.g. $20 more than thins... :P
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| 18:29 | * gehidore wishes thins and thicks could be mixed | |
| 18:29 | <alkisg> OK, enough fat client advertising :)
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| 18:29 | gehidore: most of the schools here mix them
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| 18:29 | LTSP takes care of that automatically
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| 18:30 | You can adjust it with FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD
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| 18:30 | It defaults to 400 MB RAM if I remember well
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| 18:31 | <gehidore> I must be losing my mind then
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| 18:31 | I'll have to revisit this later when I don't feel like my head could fall off at any second
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| 18:31 | <Tex> Low usage currently - under 1%. I'd be surprised if it spiked over 15% when everyone is on it but can check in about 30 min when it gets hit again.
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| 18:33 | alkisg - what settings are needed on the fatty side to offload GP to the thin clients?
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 18:34 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> Tex: you just follow that wiki page, and it's done automatically then... it normally takes less than 1h to set up an ltsp-pnp lab
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| 18:35 | The client RAM is tested, and if it's large enough, the client automatically becomes a fat client
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| 18:35 | If not, it automatically becomes thin
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| 18:42 | <Tex> ppa? is this going to make its way into the main repo?
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> ltsp-pnp has been in ubuntu since 12.10
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| 18:43 | But ubuntu's LTSP is usually very buggy and rarely up to date
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| 18:44 | So I'm maintaining that PPA to patch things, as we're using Ubuntu...
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| 18:44 | For example, LTSP in 15.10 doesn't work at all without the PPA
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| 18:44 | <Tex> that's not great news. Which distro is best maintained?
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| 18:44 | <alkisg> Ubuntu :D
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| 18:44 | <Tex> |o|
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| 18:44 | <alkisg> But I maintain it in the PPA because I don't have access to push it to the main repo
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| 18:45 | <Tex> understand
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| 18:46 | <alkisg> Debian also has a nicely maintained LTSP, although they had to switch to NBD because NFS wasn't working with the latest upstream overlayfs
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| 18:46 | That's a good thing, now debian and ubuntu are more closely together and it's easier for us to maintain it
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| 18:47 | <Tex> but of course!
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| 18:55 | I'm willing to check it out. Was under some tight time frames to getting this new system out as the old server performance was so poor.
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| 19:17 | <Tex> alkisg - Greek Schools PPA?
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| 19:18 | <alkisg> Tex: yes, I'm overseeing the installations at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
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| 19:20 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: a school asked me again how they can delete their story, it was added by mistake...
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| 19:26 | <Tex> alkisg - they are fortunate to have you.. I lived in Kifisia for 3 years but those memories are rather faint these days.
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| 19:26 | <alkisg> Nice, any Greeks in your family tree?
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| 19:28 | <Tex> nope - just German, but my brother is dating a Greek girl from his H.S. days and they may get married. That's about as close as it gets for us.
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| 19:28 | <alkisg> :)
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| 19:30 | <Tex> Pretty amazed at the sheer numbers of LTSP installations in Greece. I suspect there are many more here in Texas that just haven't made it to the map.
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| 19:31 | <alkisg> I think about half of the greek installations made it to the map, maybe even less
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| 19:32 | <Tex> wow -
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| 19:32 | <alkisg> The amazing part about the greek ltsp installations is that they're done on a voluntary basis
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| 19:33 | Teachers praise it to other teachers and they decide to try it, and then they stick to it
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| 19:33 | Then they move to other schools and install it there, and spread it to other teachers...
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| 19:34 | It helped a lot that I had a forum with millions of page hits before pushing ltsp to them.. :)
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| 19:34 | (forum for IT teachers)
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| 19:34 | <Tex> can't argue with the price. The teachers here complain about it - but they have the means to buy Microsoft based products themselves and are very reticent to anything different.
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| 19:36 | but the past year for them has been horrible - filled with frequent crashes while we attempted to keep an outdated server running. I can understand their position - it should change with this new server install.
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| 19:46 | <epoptes_user9> hello can you please tell me how to start epoptes service via command, we killed it but now can not start, we can not reboot server.
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| 19:46 | thanks
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| 19:48 | <alkisg> sudo service epoptes restart
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| 19:54 | <epoptes_user9> that works
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| 19:54 | thanks
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| 19:57 | hi alkisg when i double click on Epoptes icon it flashes and disappear, when i run /usr/bin/epoptes i get User root must be a member of gropu epotes to run epoptes. i just try to bring back the interface that i can see remote client machines.
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| 20:00 | <Phantomas> epoptes_user9: don't run epoptes as a root
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| 20:01 | is your user a member of the epoptes unix group?
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| 20:01 | <epoptes_user9> yes
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| 20:01 | i added root to epoptes group
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| 20:01 | now i get different error
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| 20:01 | <Phantomas> again, don't run epoptes as a root
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| 20:02 | <epoptes_user9> i am too late now
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| 20:02 | i did ran the command on production
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| 20:02 | <Phantomas> just add a normal user to the epoptes group, and start epoptes as this user
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| 20:03 | <epoptes_user9> ok
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| 20:03 | <Phantomas> remember to logout and back in for the group changes to take effect on the user
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| 20:03 | <epoptes_user9> can you give me the command
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| 20:05 | <Phantomas> epoptes_user9: to add a user to the epoptes group? You can do it graphically through the tool that your distribution provides
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| 20:05 | <epoptes_user9> i added i now need the command to start epoptes
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> It's called "epoptes"... don't you have a menu?
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| 20:06 | <Phantomas> logout and back in first, and then just open epoptes from the applications menu
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| 20:06 | <epoptes_user9> ok
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| 20:07 | <Phantomas> All these are described here btw: http://www.epoptes.org/installation
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| 20:10 | <epoptes_user9> not sure why it still does not work, if i can restart the server then i know i can start epoptes again but i can not restart the server at this time. It is a production server.
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> epoptes_user9: newgrp epoptes; epoptes
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| 20:11 | <epoptes_user9> i loggedout and loggedin
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> epoptes_user9: run this:
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| 20:11 | !vnc-dide
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| 20:11 | <ltsp`> vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> You already have x11vnc
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| 20:11 | (it's install with epoptes)
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| 20:13 | <epoptes_user9> not sure what you mean
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> This will allow me to see your screen so that I see what is wrong in a few seconds instead of minutes in the chat
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| 20:14 | E.g. see what the output of `ps aux|grep twistd` is, to see why epoptes is not running etc
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| 20:14 | So, you can do that by running from your server: x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
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| 20:14 | It's like teamviewer
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| 20:14 | <epoptes_user9> ok
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| 20:14 | wait
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| 20:14 | i am doing it
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| 20:16 | now i logged back in
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| 20:16 | what command you want me to share scrren with you
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| 20:16 | alkisg
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
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| 20:17 | <epoptes_user9> i did
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| 20:17 | <alkisg> I didn't get a connection
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| 20:17 | Did you see an error message?
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| 20:18 | <epoptes_user9> let me try again
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| 20:21 | <alkisg> epoptes_user9: can you type this symbol? |
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| 20:22 | <epoptes_user9> ok
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| 20:24 | yes
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> epoptes_user9: for some reason your epoptes.socket was in use
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| 20:25 | epoptes_user9: you can press ctrl+c to close the vnc window now
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| 20:25 | <epoptes_user9> i killed -9 epoptes process id
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> Ah, that's why
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| 20:25 | <epoptes_user9> can you tell why i can not see my 60 ltsp clients?
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| 20:25 | since you are just right at it
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> They need to re-connect
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| 20:25 | <epoptes_user9> how
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| 20:26 | gax has left IRC (gax!b12cf0f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.44.240.244, Quit: Page closed) | |
| 20:26 | <alkisg> By manually running /usr/sbin/epoptes-client...
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| 20:26 | <epoptes_user9> can you reconnect for me, agian i can not restart server
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> You can't access the clients now
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| 20:26 | They need to do that in their PCs manually
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| 20:26 | <epoptes_user9> ok i see
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> Or, you will see them when they logoff/logon
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| 20:27 | <epoptes_user9> ok i understand, our ltsp clients are instead pannels in front of meeting rooms
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| 20:28 | the computers are under the floor they are hard to get access to
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| 20:28 | so ok, no other way to access them remotely
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> Well...
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| 20:28 | are they thin clients?
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| 20:28 | <epoptes_user9> i will have to get to 60 of them the hard way
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| 20:28 | yes
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| 20:28 | thin clients
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> !x11
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| 20:28 | <ltsp`> I do not know about 'x11', but I do know about these similar topics: 'x11vnc'
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> !client
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| 20:28 | <ltsp`> I do not know about 'client', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers', 'epoptes-fat-clients', 'nbd-client', 'client-list'
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| 20:28 | <epoptes_user9> under floating floor tiles
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> There's a way to access the displays of the thin clients if you are root
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| 20:29 | <epoptes_user9> to reboot we have to craw under the floating floor and reach to the power button
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| 20:29 | yes
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| 20:30 | i do have root access
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> I had noted the command somewhere but it will take me some time to locate it...
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| 20:30 | ...and it's quite late here... maybe tomorrow?
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| 20:30 | :)
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| 20:30 | <epoptes_user9> can you give it to email or dule@ucalgary.ca
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> Or, search the irclogs.ltsp.org, I think I posted it here a few times
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| 20:30 | <epoptes_user9> ok
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| 20:30 | i will thanks
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> bb
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| 20:30 | alkisg is now known as work_alkisg | |
| 20:48 | <epoptes_user9> thanks alkisg - i remote login via ssh to clients/ips using root account of the clients and reboot the clients remotely when they come back they connect to epoptes server again. i know understand. good day!
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