IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 June 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:31 | <daduke> !seen Gadi
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| 00:31 | <ltspbot> daduke: Gadi was last seen in #ltsp 12 hours, 41 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Gadi> okey dokey - brb
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| 01:51 | <Pascal_1> Bonjour
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| 02:45 | <Vince-0> :-) morn
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| 02:47 | <generic> would any body now how to mount local hard drives in ltsp client ?
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| 02:55 | <Vince-0> ooh , thats a hard one ..
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| 02:58 | i cant even get the client logins to work at all, any ideas ? Im checkin auth log
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| 03:02 | the client accounts are the same accounts as the server accounts, but they don't work from the client.
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| 03:02 | bleh
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| 04:08 | <Vince-0> blah!
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| 04:17 | <michel_> help i would like to cluster the ltsp network, any idea?
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| 05:02 | <daduke> hey michel_, good to see you!
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| 05:57 | <slappy> If I want users to share a folder, do I have to install samba in Edubuntu (there is already samba-common installed)?
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| 06:02 | I read something about NFS. Would it be easier than samba (goal: share a folder on edubuntu)?
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| 06:12 | <ogra> to different machines or only between the ltsp users ?
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| 06:21 | hersonls has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:27 | <slappy> ogra:between ltsp users
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| 06:27 | <ogra> since they are all on the same machine, just define a folder for them :)
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| 06:28 | the user sessions all run on the ltsp server in ltsp ...
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| 06:28 | no need for extra server stuff if you dont want to share to a different machine beyond the server
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| 06:29 | <slappy> ogra: the problem is that I would like to have inheritance properties on the shared folder...
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| 06:29 | <slappy> I had a look to ACL... but is not "perfect"...
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| 06:30 | ogra: users a beginners, and the won't be able to change properties to rw for the group (and that's what I need)
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| 06:31 | The goal: a folder where all users can rw common files
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| 06:32 | <ogra> read about umask :)
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| 06:33 | <slappy> ogra: I tried that to. It works for files, not for folder (a user who creates a folder has exclusiv access to it)...
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| 06:34 | ogra: I think the point is: inheritance under a folder for all objects...
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| 06:34 | Even if a file is copied from another place....
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| 06:34 | <ogra> well, then you need a FS suporting ACLs like XFS or so
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| 06:34 | i dont think ext3 ACL support is that far yet
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| 06:35 | not sure though
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| 06:35 | another way would be to adjust the umask value on a system level
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| 06:35 | but indeed that applies o all new dirs then
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| 06:35 | <slappy> ACL works with ext3. Preaty easy though. But still the same problem with folders
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| 06:36 | <slappy> where can I change umask at system level. Would it be possible to aplly a script (for a specific group !)
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| 06:37 | ogra: security in linux looks like a problem in this case !
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| 06:37 | <ogra> you can apply shell scripts for everything, you can even have a script monitoring a folder for changes and applyint the permissions automatically
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| 06:38 | but still i'd go for XFS afaik that supports things like inheritance
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| 06:38 | <slappy> Is it possible to chanfe FS on /home who's on separate disk?
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| 06:39 | <ogra> make a backup, reformat, restore backup
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| 06:39 | <slappy> ;)
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| 06:39 | I,ll take a look at that. Thanks, I have to go.
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| 07:46 | <shawndakin> Hello, I am trying to configure a KiWi-LTSP openSuse 10.3 server, but having little success. I am using the prebuilt image, and when I pxeboot the client, the boot process stops at the line "input: AT Translated Set 2 Keyboard as /devices/platform/i8042/serio0/input/input1". I can find no error logs. Can any one help?
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| 07:54 | <cyberorg> shawndakin, what are you using as client, how much memory, cpu, video chipset?
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| 07:55 | shawndakin, also is /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp setup correctly and ran kiwi-ltsp-setup -c ?
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| 07:56 | hersonls has quit IRC | |
| 07:57 | <shawndakin> I am using a LTSP Term 1000, 128Mb, Vortex86 SoC-200MHz. These are the same clients I was using for LTSP4. Yes, I have the correct /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp setup and have ran kiwi-ltsp-setup -c with no errors that I could see.
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| 07:58 | I a baffled as to why it will not work :-/
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| 07:59 | <ogra> its a crap device
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| 07:59 | <cyberorg> shawndakin, kiwi-ltsp is not very good with low memory TC, first try pxebooting normal PC/laptop
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| 07:59 | <shawndakin> yea, butit worked fine in ltsp4
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| 07:59 | <ogra> its well suited for kiosk setups where you only run one app standalone and dont need desktop stuff like sound or localdev
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| 08:00 | but surely nothing i'd try to run any desktop on
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| 08:00 | <cyberorg> shawndakin, first just pxeboot something else just to make sure your setup is ok
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| 08:00 | <shawndakin> Ok, I will try a laptop and see if it goes, thanks
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| 08:00 | <ogra> cyberorg, its not only the ram ... the crappy integrated SIS CPU is your prob here
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| 08:00 | <shawndakin> I am using these for student web kiosks. The price is right
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| 08:01 | <ogra> i made it work in ubuntus ltsp with a lot of effort ... but the best i could get out of it was stuttering mouse and 2.5min boottimes
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| 08:01 | <cyberorg> i've got reports from fxsliberty that kiwi-ltsp does not run on some other popular disklessworkstations TC
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| 08:01 | <ogra> (at least i managed to cut the boot in half back then)
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| 08:01 | <cyberorg> it hangs just before initrd kicks in
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| 08:02 | <ogra> well, ubunt runs fine on all others ... i have all models here and usually test on them
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| 08:02 | but the e1000 should really be called kiosk client or so
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| 08:02 | to not let users make wrong assumptions
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| 08:03 | * cyberorg doesn't have any TC, uses laptop, desktop, virtualbox to test :( | |
| 08:03 | <shawndakin> I am assuming the kiwi-ltsp has more overhead than ltsp4 had. This client server config was working great with 4
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| 08:04 | <cyberorg> shawndakin, ltsp4 used kernel 2.4 which was optimised for 386, while we use 2.6.25 built for i586
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| 08:05 | welcome leio :)
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| 08:05 | sorry lejo,
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| 08:05 | <shawndakin> I will try a laptop and see, thanks for the help
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| 08:05 | <ogra> shawndakin, well, the e1000 works on ltsp5 in ubuntu ... as much as you can expect a $99 device to work
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| 08:05 | <lejo> thx cyberorg
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| 08:05 | <shawndakin> Hey, when all you got it is $100, you do what you can
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| 08:05 | <ogra> the kiwi requirements are just a bit higher as cyberorg stil works on optimization
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| 08:07 | <cyberorg> lejo, meet ogra the lead dev of ltsp5, ogra meet lejo one of our newest member who is helping us with kiwi-ltsp
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| 08:07 | <ogra> shawndakin, well, you usually get 20 used TCs on ebay that are better for the same price ... i turned my e1000 into a router after doing the ltsp bits with it ... it even takes 2 min if you boot it natively with a local install
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| 08:07 | <ogra> cyberorg, former lead-dev :) we switched to a distro independent team maintenance :)
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| 08:07 | about 6 months ago :)
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| 08:08 | <cyberorg> ogra, even with that you are the lead dev of ltsp5 who has written most of it
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| 08:08 | i am just considering your contribution, not current role :)
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| 08:09 | <ogra> well, right, but i didnt touch much of the code after we switched the manteance model ... for questions about recent code warren or vagrantc are surely the better guys
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| 08:09 | <lejo> kudos for your work ;)
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| 08:09 | <ogra> thanks ;) glad you like it
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| 08:10 | <lejo> I'm currently running it at one of my customers (+-15sites)
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| 08:29 | <daduke> Gadi: hey there. I asked about rdesktop disturbing my ldm screen yesterday and you wanted to know details. We use ltsp5 on etch.
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| 08:30 | <Gadi> daduke: ah, great
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| 08:30 | there is no built in mechanism to do you what you wanted
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| 08:30 | but, I would try the following
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| 08:30 | :)
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| 08:30 | :
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| 08:31 | 1 sec...
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| 08:33 | <Gadi> while [ "$(fgconsole)" != "${TTY}" ];do sleep 2; done
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| 08:34 | that should go after the include of screen-x-common
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| 08:35 | in the rdesktop screen script
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| 08:35 | <ogra> whats that ? a workaround for a race ?
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| 08:35 | <Gadi> ogra: quick and dirty
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| 08:36 | work around for the race of which screen comes up first
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| 08:36 | not bad, right?
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| 08:36 | eats a bit of CPU
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| 08:37 | but not the worst hack in the world
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| 08:37 | :)
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| 08:37 | <ogra> no, but i wonder why rdesktop cant wait
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| 08:38 | <Gadi> well, its more like when X inits it steals the screen
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| 08:39 | and I think we established the noswitchvt thing doesnt work
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| 08:39 | so, this is the next best thing
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| 08:39 | <ogra> upstart will fix all that console mess soon i heard :)
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| 08:39 | but not for debian yet i guess
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| 08:45 | <shawndakin> cyberorg, ogra, FYI the laptop worked. The e1000 must be my problem. Since it worked fine in 4 I will leave things be. Thanks for the help though. I appreciate it.
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| 08:47 | <cyberorg> shawndakin, sorry couldn't help, our hardware demand is a bit high
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| 08:48 | * ogra didnt find the device fun in ltsp4 either | |
| 08:49 | <ogra> i tried it there
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| 08:49 | <daduke> Gadi: thanks, I will try what you suggested. Unfortunately, we have the additional problem of the windows login screen restarting every 30 s. I'm afraid you're hack won't take care of that..
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| 08:49 | <Gadi> well, for that, just put rdesktop in a while loop
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| 08:49 | thats what I do
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| 08:49 | while :; do rdesktop....; done
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| 08:49 | <ogra> mouse being sluggish as well etc ... if it is booted once it doesnt behave much different between ltsp4 and 5
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| 08:50 | <daduke> Gadi: oh it does reconnect all right, but it steals X's "focus" every time
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> no, sorry
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| 08:50 | I have a wrapper to rdesktop
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| 08:50 | <shawndakin> ogra, all we use it for is student web access and openoffice write. I run 30 on a single server with little problems.
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> called rdesktop.wrapper
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| 08:50 | <cyberorg> ogra, is ubuntu kernel i386 optimised>?
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> that I call instead of rdesktop
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| 08:50 | from xinit
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| 08:50 | <ogra> cyberorg, i486
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> the wrapper puts rdesktop in a while loop
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| 08:50 | <ogra> we dont have any i386 kernels
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> so X doesn't keep reiniting
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| 08:51 | the xinit is what steals the focus
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| 08:51 | <daduke> Gadi: that's more like it then. This never made into debian I guess?
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| 08:51 | <cyberorg> ogra, i486 atleast must be able to boot on i386, i586 wont
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| 08:51 | <ogra> cyberorg, but it doesnt make any difference i tried all the different kernel builds
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> daduke: LTSP cares little for rdp :)
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| 08:51 | <ogra> its very specific to that CPU
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> many of my hacks stay out of the core
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| 08:51 | * Gadi is surprised the rdesktop screen script is in core | |
| 08:51 | <cyberorg> ah, k
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| 08:51 | <ogra> Gadi, ubuntu ships rdesktop by default
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| 08:52 | <cliebow> hacks..
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| 08:52 | <Gadi> right - I wonder why
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| 08:52 | :)
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| 08:52 | <ogra> Gadi, because its silly to force the user to install it manually ... we have it on the cd anyway as desktop dependency
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| 08:52 | <daduke> Gadi: I know. but it's another kick ass feature if I can provide two OS on one thin client
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| 08:53 | <ogra> Gadi, if we're missing pieces in ubuntu i'm happy to let them inot intrepid
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| 08:53 | <Gadi> ogra: true - but I dont think ubuntu is keen on supporting it, no?
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| 08:53 | <ogra> (if they are in clean separate patches .... hint ... hint)
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| 08:53 | <Gadi> :P
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| 08:53 | <ogra> well, we do
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| 08:54 | <Gadi> well, if ubuntu wants to do it, it should do it right - and enable localdev and sound support for rdesktop screen script
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| 08:54 | otherwise, it should probably be left as an addon
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| 08:54 | <ogra> so send me patches :)
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| 08:54 | <daduke> Gadi: where could I find your wrapper magic? And how can I bribe vagrantc to include it into debian?
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| 08:55 | <Gadi> :)
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| 08:55 | <ogra> i think debian had different problems with rdesktop itself
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| 08:55 | thats why it wasnt added yet
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| 08:55 | <Gadi> daduke: unfortunately, I do not have things separated sufficiently - and I am still on gutsy
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| 08:55 | <ogra> there were some RC bugs open
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| 08:55 | <Gadi> it would take some time for me to adapt all of my hacks to hardy
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| 08:55 | but, I can advise as you go :)
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| 08:55 | <daduke> Gadi: not ready for prime time is what you're trying to say?
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> ready for prime time
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| 08:56 | just not ready to be merged with LTSP
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> cleanly
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| 08:56 | :)
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| 08:56 | <daduke> Gadi: bummer.
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> there is a lot to hack around, as LTSP's focus is on ldm
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| 08:57 | and the gutsy->hardy transition moved things around a bunch
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| 08:57 | to the point where its an exercise just to change all the paths
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| 08:57 | and since I hear the paths are changing in intrepid again
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| 08:57 | I'll prolly work towards intrepid
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| 08:57 | :)
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| 08:57 | <daduke> Gadi: we're still trying to fix it on the windows side (the login screen being restarted every 30 s), but we haven't found it yet
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| 08:57 | <Gadi> I dont think you can
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| 08:58 | unless it's a registry hack
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| 08:58 | <daduke> Gadi: everything in Windows is a registry hack
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| 08:58 | <Gadi> :)
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| 08:58 | you wouldnt want to turn it off anyway, necessarily
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| 08:58 | <daduke> Gadi: somebody suggested GINA, but we have to look into that
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| 08:58 | <Gadi> it'll prolly leave lots of stale connections around
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| 08:58 | which will impact ur licensing
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| 09:00 | <daduke> Gadi: think so? if I'm logged out already (or not yet logged in) there shouldn't be stale connections now should there?
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| 09:00 | <cliebow> Balls! applications Places system are missing frommy panel///
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| 09:00 | <Gadi> daduke: its windows
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| 09:00 | :)
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| 09:00 | <daduke> Gadi: I forgot.
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| 09:00 | <Gadi> dont expect a deviation from normal to work
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| 09:00 | they have a hard enough time with normal
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| 09:02 | <ogra> cliebow, just add them back :) its in the add-to-panel dialog
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| 09:02 | <daduke> Gadi: roughly, how much work would it be to include your patches into etch? is this something we could talk vagrantc into doing?
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| 09:03 | Gadi: or I'll try doing it and provide patches to him?
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| 09:03 | <cliebow> ahhh.slap me..
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| 09:05 | <ogra> daduke, we discussed rdesktop inclusion before i did it in ubuntu ... and he wasnt opposed apart from the RC bugs he had ...
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| 09:05 | so yur chances are good to get fixes in for that
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| 09:05 | <Gadi> daduke: we have a hackfest coming up next month - I will try to get my hacks in order for then
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| 09:10 | <daduke> Gadi: cool! where's that gonna be?
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| 09:10 | !seen vagrantc
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| 09:10 | <ltspbot> daduke: vagrantc was last seen in #ltsp 2 days, 6 hours, 55 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <vagrantc> sounds like a bug in something ... i didn't try it, but i'm pretty sure others had it working just fine.
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| 09:11 | <daduke> Gadi: I'll be happy to help in any way I can, testing and all.
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| 09:12 | <Gadi> daduke: portland, or
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| 09:12 | <daduke> Gadi: vagrantc or the hackfest? I know he's living there (sometimes)
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| 09:12 | <cliebow> ogra:err maybe i am obtuse..but i dont see a way to add the whole applications menu back..
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| 09:12 | <Gadi> daduke: both
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| 09:12 | :)
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| 09:14 | <daduke> Gadi: when? I'll be in the Bay Area June 13 - July 2, but that's still many many miles...
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| 09:14 | <Gadi> July 25th ish
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| 09:15 | <daduke> Gadi: too late then
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| 09:15 | :(
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| 09:16 | <Gadi> no worries - we'll all be in here while we're there
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| 09:16 | :)
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| 09:16 | <daduke> Gadi: I know... would've been nice to meet you guys in person tho..
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| 09:19 | <Gadi> ditto
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| 09:19 | daduke: where are you locaed?
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| 09:19 | *located
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| 09:20 | <daduke> Gadi: Zurich, Switzerland
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| 09:20 | <Gadi> ah, then I hope to come see you some day
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| 09:20 | :)
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| 09:20 | <daduke> Gadi: hope so too. La mia casa ? la tua casa.
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| 09:21 | Gadi: what's Gadi's HQ?
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| 09:21 | <Gadi> New York
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| 09:22 | <daduke> Gadi: that's were AA screwed up my flights last August... what a mess.
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| 09:23 | <Gadi> sorry
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| 09:23 | Ill have a talk with them
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| 09:23 | :)
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| 09:23 | * daduke doubts it was Gadi's fault | |
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| 09:29 | <daduke> Gadi: I'll get back to you in July then, aye?
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| 09:29 | <Gadi> if you would, yeah, please
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| 09:30 | <daduke> Gadi: sure, I want my problem fixed ;)
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| 09:40 | <cliebow> daduke:Maine in November is nice ;-]
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| 09:41 | <daduke> cliebow: Indian Summer, I know. I'd like to see it. Been to MA and NH last August... hence the flight trouble
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| 09:41 | cliebow: well no, November's too late for summer I guess...
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| 09:43 | <cliebow> yeah a little late..we try to get these guys together for ltsp by-the-sea
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| 09:43 | and it usually ties to ubuntu summit
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| 09:43 | <ogra> nov summit will likely be in california
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| 09:43 | hard to tie to events in maine
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| 09:45 | <cliebow> i see..
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| 10:06 | <Nubae> (04:12:42 PM) cliebow: ogra:err maybe i am obtuse..but i dont see a way to add the whole
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| 10:06 | <cliebow> ??
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| 10:06 | <Nubae> right click on the bottom panel, add new panel
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| 10:06 | <ogra> no
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| 10:06 | right click on the panel "add to panel"
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| 10:06 | then look for the ubuntu logo
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| 10:07 | <cliebow> ahhhh
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| 10:07 | <ogra> one of the two you will find is the full menu, the other is just the single appmenu
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| 10:07 | <Nubae> there are 2... one has a dropdown with everything
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| 10:07 | <cliebow> that is better
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| 10:07 | <Nubae> i've done this 100 times for my students :-)
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| 10:07 | they keep deleting the panels
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| 10:07 | <ogra> just lock down the panel :)
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| 10:08 | <Nubae> yeah true
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| 10:08 | <cliebow> mine just went south for some reason all by itself
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| 10:08 | but she is back
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| 10:08 | <Nubae> its weirder when u delete the whole panel
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| 10:08 | u'd expect to add it from the top
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| 10:09 | <maasj> Hello. I'm a long-time amateur LTSP v4 sysadmin...
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| 10:09 | ...and we're finally getting around to testing LTSP5 on Ubuntu 8.04 ("Hardy")
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| 10:10 | We have a number of terminals that are donated old PCs that we've stuck dual-port video cards in.
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| 10:10 | We've gotten them working in LTSPv4 using hand-crafted xorg.conf files for each terminal as needed.
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| 10:10 | It works, but is clunky.
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| 10:10 | Is there anything better in LTSP for dual-headed terminals (using a single video card)?
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| 10:10 | In LTSP5 I mean.
| |
| 10:12 | I read the ltsp-users mailing lists and I've read the Edubuntu docs and I don't see anything about dual-headed setups with desktop spanning...
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| 10:12 | <Gadi> LTSP 4.2 actually had dual-head parameters in lts.conf
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| 10:12 | LTSP 5 does not, tho
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| 10:12 | <maasj> Hi Gadi, yeah I was just re-reading about taht in the Wiki.
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| 10:12 | Thanks for your work on it!
| |
| 10:12 | <Gadi> so, in 4.2 you could have not used xorg.conf files
| |
| 10:12 | :)
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| 10:13 | <maasj> Well, that's a start. :)
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> in 5 you will have to use xorg.conf files
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| 10:13 | and specify them with X_CONF
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| 10:13 | <maasj> Ok, that's good to know. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some fantastic new feature that would make life easy for those setups.
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> (i think thats the param name)
| |
| 10:13 | just be sure to roll them into the image
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| 10:13 | <maasj> I bet we will enjoy having a newer kernel and X.org versions...
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| 10:13 | <Gadi> the only thing that lives outside the image in 5 is lts.conf
| |
| 10:14 | <maasj> Yes, we're learning about making sure to rebuild the image.
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| 10:14 | Do you know of any good templates for the xorg.conf file?
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| 10:14 | <Gadi> and be sure to use full path as the argument to X_CONF
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| 10:14 | <maasj> Ours our kinda old and crufty.
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| 10:14 | <rjune__> Gadi: !
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| 10:14 | <Gadi> so: X_CONF=/etc/X11/myxorg.conf
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| 10:14 | <maasj> I think we're primarily using MergedFB since we had troubles with Xinerama...any thoughts about that?
| |
| 10:15 | <Gadi> rjune!!
| |
| 10:15 | * Gadi has never had probs with xinerama | |
| 10:15 | <Gadi> what probs did you have?
| |
| 10:15 | <maasj> I don't remember, it's been a couple years or so.
| |
| 10:16 | I just remember having problems, seeing references to MergedFB, trying that and getting it working...
| |
| 10:16 | So it became the default in our environment...
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| 10:16 | <Gadi> gotcha
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| 10:17 | <Gadi> see its for uses like yours that I dont foresee a conf-less xorg for some time :)
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| 10:17 | <ogra> wide displays are implemenzted in xrandr nowadays xinerama and friends are pretty much dead
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| 10:17 | <maasj> ogra: You're referring to desktop spanning across monitors?
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| 10:17 | <Gadi> xrandr implements dual head?
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| 10:18 | <johnny> ograz
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| 10:19 | <maasj> Gadi: The Xinerama Sourceforge site says "As of 2007-09-20 10:44, this project is no longer under active development."
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| 10:19 | <Gadi> cool
| |
| 10:20 | * Gadi hopes this isnt yet another example of 'lets kill off the project in anticipation of another that doesnt come or comes half-implemented' | |
| 10:20 | * Gadi took his cynic pills this morning | |
| 10:20 | * maasj chuckles | |
| 10:22 | <Gadi> http://intellinuxgraphics.org/dualhead.html
| |
| 10:22 | good reading
| |
| 10:22 | <ogra> Gadi, it not only impelments dualhead, it also breaks former implementations
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| 10:23 | which is very sad
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| 10:23 | <johnny> Gadi, i'm using dual head with xrandr right now with hardy
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| 10:23 | <ogra> johnny, in ltsp ?
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| 10:23 | <johnny> no.. not yet
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| 10:23 | <ogra> we dont have any support for tht
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| 10:23 | <johnny> some day tho..
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| 10:23 | <ogra> (yet)
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| 10:23 | <maasj> What do you mean that there's no support?
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| 10:24 | <johnny> it could still have better plug and play support
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| 10:24 | <maasj> What's LTSP-specific about it (if you roll your own xorg.conf file)?
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| 10:24 | <johnny> maasj, he means no direct support via lts.conf
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| 10:24 | <maasj> Ahh, OK.
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| 10:24 | <ogra> nobody ever tested mutlihead afaik
| |
| 10:24 | i' not even sure it works atm
| |
| 10:24 | <johnny> well maasj will let us kow
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| 10:24 | <Gadi> seems it should work in gutsy, too
| |
| 10:24 | <maasj> FYI, Wikipedia links to this post about Xinerama going away: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-x/2007-November/000059.html
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| 10:24 | <Gadi> just need xserver 1.3
| |
| 10:25 | <maasj> What does Hardy have?
| |
| 10:25 | <Gadi> 1.4
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| 10:25 | iirc
| |
| 10:25 | <maasj> Well that sounds like a winner then!
| |
| 10:25 | What's the relationship of MergedFB to xrandr?
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| 10:25 | <ogra> maasj, feedback would be highly appreciated
| |
| 10:25 | <johnny> unnecesary hopefully
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| 10:25 | i'm not using it
| |
| 10:26 | i have "one big desktop"
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| 10:26 | <ogra> we dont have anyone in the dev team who ever tested it for ardy
| |
| 10:26 | *hardy
| |
| 10:26 | <maasj> ogra: none of you have the pleasure of multiple monitors?
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| 10:26 | savetheWorld has left #ltsp | |
| 10:26 | <maasj> I guess our lowly non-profit isn't doing so bad on technology after all! :)
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| 10:26 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:28 | <ogra> maasj, i have but my none of my clients has the option to add a second card ... and to be honest i'm not really looking after such extra features (as long as we have bigger probs like missing localapp support etc)
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| 10:28 | savetheWorld has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:28 | <maasj> ogra: we're just using dual-ported video cards. I don't have any 2-card setups.
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| 10:28 | <ogra> hich doesnt men i wont happily accept patches to get it working :)
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| 10:29 | maasj, the clients i have here usually have everything on board ... i would have to get a second usb vga card or some such to even test it
| |
| 10:29 | (no PCI/AGP slots either)
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| 10:29 | <maasj> ogra: Ahh, you've got real thin clients...
| |
| 10:29 | We haven't stepped up to the plate on that one yet.
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| 10:30 | <ogra> well, real clients and virtualbox for all non HW related development
| |
| 10:30 | <maasj> We've been given enough decent old PCs, but not decent monitors, so it's been easier to convince management to spend money on monitors than on terminals.
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| 12:19 | <lns> Q-FUNK!!
| |
| 12:21 | Q-FUNK, I'm hopefully going to be setting up my 6 new Koolu TCs with Geode chipsets today on a newly-upgraded Hardy install
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| 12:21 | alkis1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:21 | <lns> If you need help/feedback let me know
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| 12:22 | <Q-FUNK> lns: just testing the new geode driver in my PPA would be nice
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| 12:23 | <lns> ok
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| 12:23 | Is it supposed to work well ?
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| 12:23 | <Q-FUNK> it should
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| 12:23 | <lns> cool.. I have them hooked up to 20" widescreens
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| 12:23 | maasj has left #ltsp | |
| 12:23 | <Q-FUNK> the main question that ubuntu release managers have is whether this finally fixes it for real.
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| 12:23 | <johnny> lns, send me one :)
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| 12:24 | <lns> johnny, =p Not mine to give away, otherwise I would ;)
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| 12:24 | <Q-FUNK> if it does, it would be aprpeciated for you to comment on the relevant bug number on Launchpad
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| 12:24 | <johnny> call it a consulting fee :)
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| 12:24 | <lns> Q-FUNK, most definitely
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| 12:24 | <gbolte> lns what are they
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| 12:24 | the koolu that is
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| 12:24 | not the 20" monitors
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| 12:24 | :P
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| 12:25 | <lns> gbolte, look here - minus the HDD: http://koolu.com/Koolu-WE-Appliance/Works-Everywhere-Appliance.html
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| 12:26 | <gbolte> so its a $300 server?
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| 12:26 | <lns> gbolte, no, a $199 thin-client
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| 12:26 | <gbolte> $299
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| 12:26 | Koolu W.E.? Appliance with 512 MB of RAM
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| 12:26 | plus 80 GB hard drive and Ubuntu pre-loaded
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| 12:26 | I must be missing something
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| 12:26 | <lns> gbolte, the thin-client version is $199
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| 12:26 | it's hard to find the thin-client on their site right now as they're "upgrading" it
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| 12:27 | <gbolte> oh
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| 12:27 | <lns> putting some CF in it for localapps i think
| |
| 12:27 | but the ones i have don't have any storage
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| 12:28 | <lns> For anyone who cares, also, I'm making an "Ubuntu LTSP Handbook:" for techs that are just getting started with Ubuntu/LTSP, sort of an introduction and quick-reference for common tasks and such
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| 12:28 | I'll probably post it to the wiki once it's finished
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| 12:28 | <gbolte> lns so they are a fanless TC
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| 12:29 | <Nubae> make a link to help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 12:29 | <lns> gbolte, yes
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| 12:29 | <gbolte> ah
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| 12:29 | <lns> Nubae, ok - will do
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| 12:29 | <johnny> that'd be great to be on the ltsp official wiki
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| 12:29 | before linking to it
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| 12:29 | <gbolte> hmm we paid like $250 for our TCs
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| 12:30 | <lns> johnny, ltsp official wiki? from ltsp.org ?
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| 12:30 | gbolte, keep in mind these come from canada so the conversion is a bit off
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| 12:30 | plus shipping is pretty expensive
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| 12:30 | <gbolte> ah
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| 12:30 | <lns> One cool thing about Koolu is that RMS is one of the owners though ;)
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| 12:31 | <gbolte> yeah our TCs are dual core AMD 64s with like 512MB ram and nvidia 7 series gfx onboard
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| 12:31 | and gigE
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| 12:32 | <lns> gbolte, holy *$#@
| |
| 12:32 | why??
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| 12:32 | <gbolte> cuz they are only $250 and you throw a hdd in them they are a full pc
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| 12:32 | <lns> heh
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| 12:32 | <gbolte> hah
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| 12:33 | <lns> cluster them together and you have a nice LTSP server for a few hundred actual TCs ;)
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| 12:33 | <gbolte> yeah
| |
| 12:33 | we thought about it
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| 12:33 | but openmosix is dead
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| 12:33 | :/
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| 12:33 | <Q-FUNK> just imagine a beowolf cluster of these! (tm)
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| 12:33 | <lns> Q-FUNK, =p
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| 12:33 | <gbolte> haha
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| 12:34 | <lns> Hey what are some common questions you guys get from people regarding ltsp?
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| 12:34 | <gbolte> yeah it would be nice to actually USE the processors that are out there idle
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| 12:34 | <Q-FUNK> come to think of it, combining LTSP with MOpenMosix would be downright evio.
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| 12:34 | <lns> I'm trying to build a "common questions" section
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| 12:34 | <Q-FUNK> pure evil, even.
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| 12:36 | <gbolte> lol Q-FUNK yeah the ltsp project should resurrect openmosix from the dead and use it
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| 12:37 | just think of all the shared cpu cycles
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| 12:37 | :P
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| 12:38 | <Q-FUNK> I think that was what one of the coreboot guys wanted to do with our thincan, actually.
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| 12:39 | <gbolte> heh
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| 12:39 | nice
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| 12:39 | <Q-FUNK> Ron
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| 12:40 | he started the coreboot (a.k.a. linuxbios) project and does clusters for a living
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| 12:41 | <gbolte> sweet
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| 12:41 | yeah that would be nice
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| 12:41 | <gbolte> I think it would be cool if you could get ltsp to have an option to automagically use the TC CPU for extra computing power
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| 12:41 | heh
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| 12:42 | <Q-FUNK> two nice ides to develop for an LTSP server: 1) run mosix on it. 2) run asterisk on it.
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| 12:42 | <gbolte> not sure about astrix
| |
| 12:42 | but mosix would be good
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| 12:42 | :P
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| 12:44 | <ogra> there are people running boinc clusters for distributed computing and i heard about a project running distcc locally on the clients
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| 12:44 | <gbolte> haha sweet
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| 12:44 | :D
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| 12:44 | <lns> =p
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| 12:44 | <ogra> such things are easy to do with ltsp5
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| 12:44 | <gbolte> yeah
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| 12:45 | hell if you wanted to you could run folding at home on them or seti at home but it wouldnt really do anything for the performance of the sessions
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| 12:46 | <ogra> boinc is the new name for seti@home :)
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| 12:47 | <johnny> lns, would be nice to have a section about the difference between windows terminal server vs ltsp
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| 12:48 | <gbolte> ah shows how much I pay attention to seti
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| 12:48 | :/
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| 12:48 | <ogra> they decoupled the software from the project .... and renamed it
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| 12:48 | <lns> johnny, got that =)
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| 12:48 | <gbolte> ah
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| 12:48 | I see
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| 12:49 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: that becomes a whole class of subprojects to itself
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| 12:50 | <ogra> yeah
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| 12:51 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: btw, did you end up skipping LT completely?
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| 12:53 | <ogra> since there was no way for me to get there, yes, i had to
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| 12:53 | <Q-FUNK> ouch
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| 12:57 | <lns> omg.. I can't stand this not-letting-me-turn-off-italics in OOo 2.3 =p
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| 12:58 | I don't want to upgrade to Hardy on my workstation as I'm going to be configuring an ltsp server for my office.. but ugh!
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| 13:01 | <gbolte> :/
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| 13:02 | lns how many users in your office
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| 13:02 | <lns> gbolte, just 2 right now
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| 13:02 | but i want to eat my own dog food, so to speak
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| 13:06 | <cliebow> heh
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| 13:08 | <cyberorg> gbolte, i'll try to find out what HP clustering is available in OBS if any and see how we can implement, icecream is one such project, but i think useful for compiling only
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| 13:09 | <gbolte> cyberorg, nice
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| 13:09 | it would be good to recover lost cycles in some way
| |
| 13:09 | :P
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| 13:09 | <cyberorg> http://en.opensuse.org/Icecream
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> guys, why is ltsp-update-sshkeys called on every if-up? (/etc/network/if-up.d/ltsp-keys) Isn't it useless since ltsp-update-image is not called?
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| 13:18 | (ubuntu hardy)
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| 14:27 | <Egyptian[Home]> hi .. i have an ldap server that creates /home/user for each user i add.. where do i disable this?
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| 14:27 | <Nubae> hmmm... where is the ldap server¿
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| 14:28 | is it local?
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| 14:28 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:29 | <Nubae> and what distro...
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| 14:30 | <alkisg> johnny, any idea how long it would take dnsmasq 2.42 to be available for hardy? A month? Less? More? :)
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| 14:57 | <johnny> alkisg, probably never
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| 14:57 | then again.. i don't know what 8.04.1 is going to be called
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> why? 2.41 is available now...
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| 14:58 | So if I want to use it, I have to get the .deb from Debian? or build from source?
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| 15:00 | Oh, you mean 8.04.1 may have a different name... OK, no problem with the name, if it has it, I'll use it.. But no backports for 8.04?
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| 15:43 | <johnny> vagrantc, i'm coming to the hackfest!
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> johnny: great!
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| 15:45 | <johnny> got the tickets now :)
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| 15:48 | <vagrantc> LTSP hackfest is on the freegeek calendar: http://freegeek.org/calendar
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| 15:57 | <lmckayjo> Hey all, anybody doing ltsp5 on RHEL5?
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| 16:46 | <ddelony> I read about the original design for Plan 9 with CPU and storage servers kept separate from the terminal servers. I wonder if it would be possible to implement something similar with LTSP.
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| 17:22 | <shogunx> hi all. wondering if an ARM port was in the back of anyones mind...
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| 17:27 | <johnny> it wouldn't be too hrd..
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| 17:27 | i bet
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| 17:28 | 2 C apps.. the rest is shell
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| 17:29 | <johnny> anything else.. would be at the mercy of other packages being available for arm
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| 17:29 | <Gadi> if I had a port in my arm, I'd make it USB :)
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| 17:29 | <gbolte> johnny, what are you guys in gentoo land doing for cross processor support
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| 17:29 | lol Gadi
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| 17:29 | <johnny> cross in what way?
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| 17:29 | Gadi, i will see you..
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| 17:29 | to haunt you forever
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| 17:30 | <Gadi> how I would get an arm port in the back of my mind is beyond me
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| 17:30 | :)
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| 17:30 | <johnny> you will be in portland?
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| 17:30 | <Gadi> the land of ports
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| 17:30 | indeed
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| 17:30 | <johnny> me too :)
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| 17:30 | <Gadi> I set the dates :)
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| 17:30 | <gbolte> johnny, like processors other than x86
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| 17:30 | :P
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| 17:30 | <johnny> gbolte, it's still ambiguous
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| 17:30 | <gbolte> heh
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| 17:31 | <johnny> specific case
| |
| 17:31 | <Gadi> you dont want to cross the ports
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| 17:31 | dont EVER cross the ports
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| 17:31 | <johnny> that's streams gadi.. streams
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| 17:31 | didn't ghostbusters school teach you anything?
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| 17:31 | <Gadi> good point - bathroom break!
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| 17:31 | <gbolte> johnny, like power pc support
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| 17:31 | <johnny> gbolte, for what :)
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| 17:31 | <gbolte> lol
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| 17:31 | mac
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| 17:31 | hehe
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| 17:32 | hackintoshes
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| 17:32 | <johnny> server, client, of same , or different archs, etc
| |
| 17:32 | specific usage case
| |
| 17:32 | then i can tell you
| |
| 17:32 | <gbolte> say someone wanted to use ppc clients
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| 17:32 | and ppc server
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| 17:33 | <johnny> that's no problem
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| 17:33 | <gbolte> is that going to be supported in gentoo
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| 17:33 | <Gadi> done
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| 17:33 | <johnny> it should just work
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| 17:33 | <Gadi> lol
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| 17:33 | <gbolte> ah
| |
| 17:33 | ok
| |
| 17:33 | wasnt sure
| |
| 17:33 | what about mixing arches
| |
| 17:33 | <johnny> the interesting case, is where your client is a different arch
| |
| 17:33 | <Gadi> just because its not x86 doesnt make it cross
| |
| 17:33 | ;)
| |
| 17:33 | <johnny> but not different arch between x86 and amd64
| |
| 17:33 | but between amd64/x86 and EVERYTHING ELSE
| |
| 17:33 | <gbolte> right
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| 17:33 | ok
| |
| 17:33 | I see
| |
| 17:34 | <johnny> gentoo has crossdev which is a tool to build a cross compiler toolchain
| |
| 17:34 | and we'll use that to build the clients
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| 17:34 | <gbolte> so if someone had a x86 server and ppc clients it prolly will not work then?
| |
| 17:34 | or it will
| |
| 17:34 | <johnny> it can
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| 17:34 | <gbolte> ah
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| 17:34 | <Gadi> do ro do not - there is no try
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| 17:34 | <johnny> i haven't automated it yet, but it should work
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| 17:34 | <gbolte> ah
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| 17:40 | <Gadi> good. then there will be more people that appreciate "the rest is left as an exercise for the reader"
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| 17:40 | thats what you say in an engineering text when you put problems that you didn't work out yourself because they were too hard
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| 17:40 | :)
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| 17:41 | <Nubae> lol
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| 17:41 | <johnny> it should only be a few commands away... crossdev -t targetarch, tell portage to use that .. and wait. . done
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| 18:42 | <shogunx> i was thinking ARM devices as the client. given the low cpu/emmory requirement, one could make some very power efficient thin clients built on ARM or MIPSEL
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| 18:45 | <gbolte> shogunx, yeah that sounds like an idea
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| 18:45 | :)
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| 18:46 | <shogunx> less watts are a very good thing.
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| 18:46 | <gbolte> yeah saves money
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| 18:46 | :)
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| 18:47 | <shogunx> lots of money on solar power;)
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| 18:47 | every watt is costly when you pay up front.
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| 18:48 | <gbolte> heh
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| 18:48 | <lns> shogunx, and it'll just get worse as time goes on - energy is going to be as expensive as gasoline
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| 18:48 | err...electricity.. heh
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| 18:49 | <shogunx> yep... leccy is not getting cheaper.
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| 19:03 | <shogunx> the only way to beat the prices on electric is to make your own, it seems.
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| 19:05 | <vagrantc> shogunx: there's theoretical support for arm network booting in ltsp ...
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| 19:06 | shogunx: if someone had arm thin-clients to test, i'd consider enabling it for debian again
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| 19:06 | <shogunx> ok. step one overcome.
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| 19:06 | i was considering to procure some various and assorted arm based soc systems with my next solart network sale proceeds.
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| 19:07 | to test out.
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| 19:07 | i would prefer to build up a board from scratch, but i do not have the resources for that yet.
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> well, you can build arm packages out of the debian sources with 2 lines of patches that add them to the list of architectures to build
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| 19:38 | <grahamsaa> evening all
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| 19:39 | sorry to bug you but i have a newbie question
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| 19:40 | i've looked around in the docs and can't seem to find much information on the subject
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| 19:40 | do any of you know if it's possible to run windows thin clients that connect to an (ubuntu) ltsp server?
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| 19:41 | ideally i'd like the server to handle processing of windows applications for the clients. not sure if this is possible -- reason for it is that most of the users i will be serving have no experience with linux and aren't interested in switching
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| 19:51 | <Nubae> its possible, but then its sort of pointless
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| 19:51 | and its not ltsp anymore
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| 19:52 | <shogunx> call them lemmings and find other users, perhaps?
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| 19:52 | <Nubae> indeed
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| 19:53 | they'd be connecting through rdkestop to a vmware/virtualbox session I guess
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| 19:53 | heh, imagine that, windows installed inside ubuntu and the box just sits there, windows being its parasite
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| 19:54 | eating up its cpu time and memory...
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| 19:58 | <grahamsaa> hmmm
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| 19:59 | well, i guess i'm stuck. i wish i could get other users or convince them to switch, but i'm a contractor and they sign my checks
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| 19:59 | <Nubae> how about installing crossover
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| 19:59 | allows u to run windows apps inside linux
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| 19:59 | i bet if you dont tell them its linux, they won't even notice the difference
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| 20:00 | <grahamsaa> maybe things have changed but some apps don't seem to behave well with crossover
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| 20:00 | like outlook (i've tried to get people off of outlook but when i mention switching i can see terror in their eyes)
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| 20:02 | <Nubae> yeah outlook doesnt work on crossover, though think the latest crossover has office 2000 and office XP working perfectly
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| 20:32 | <grahamsaa> nubae -- any idea if the pro version of google earth runs well under crossover?
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| 20:32 | <shogunx> there is a native linux version, no?
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| 20:32 | <grahamsaa> not pro
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| 20:32 | unfortunately
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| 20:32 | <shogunx> difference?
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| 20:32 | <grahamsaa> and we depend very heavily on it for gis data
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| 20:33 | pro gives much better detail on maps, and offers the ability to integrate user gis data into google earth
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| 20:33 | if we have one mission critical application, that's probably it, sad to say
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| 20:34 | (though i expect google will eventually offer it for linux)
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| 20:34 | <johnny> ifthey offer the original... i'm sure they will offer the pro..
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| 20:35 | <Nubae> should be no problem grahamsaa
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| 20:35 | what do use, what to use, cakephp, django or rails?
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| 20:36 | <grahamsaa> ?
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| 20:36 | with google earth?
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| 20:36 | <Nubae> sorry, that was an aside...
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| 20:36 | <grahamsaa> (we don't do much development, but we do a lot of mapping work)
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| 20:36 | <Nubae> I need to build some websites and want to use a nice structure framework like ruby on rails
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| 20:37 | <grahamsaa> i'm really not the best guy to answer that -- i don't do web development at all really
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| 20:37 | i know perl and some php, but i'm much more a sysadmin type
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| 20:38 | <Nubae> me too
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| 20:38 | that's why I wanna use a framework, as little work as possible
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| 20:38 | <grahamsaa> yeah
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| 20:39 | well, if you're interested in going with a cms i've heard good things about drupal and joomla
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| 20:39 | both should simplify things somewhat
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| 20:39 | but if you're looking for a framework for a static page i really don't know
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| 20:41 | <Nubae> yeah I've used Joomla a lot
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| 20:41 | but its too structured and big... need something small
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| 20:41 | http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=1325
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| 20:41 | <grahamsaa> hmmm
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| 20:41 | <Nubae> looks like google earth doesnt work
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| 20:41 | <grahamsaa> yeah, i've found the same thing
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| 20:42 | though there is an app called world wind that is open source
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| 20:42 | just found it -- supposed to be a google earth alternative
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| 20:43 | i guess it's worth a try, maybe eventually it will offer comparable functionality
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| 21:19 | <johnny> hmm
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| 22:07 | <generic> how can we mount local Hard drive in ltsp client
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| 23:35 | <generic> would it possible to mount HD to thin client??,i was searching it for 3 days but could n't found,plz help
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