IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 October 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:12 | <alkisg> ubuntu-mate-19.10-desktop-amd64.iso => boots perfectly in ltsp mode, yey :)
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| 12:03 | <Nexion22> Hi all
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| 12:04 | My real fat machines does not arrive on the IPXE menu and I can't solve that :(
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| 12:05 | On Proxmox everything worked
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| 12:06 | Any ideas ?
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| 12:07 | mgariepy has joined IRC (mgariepy!~mgariepy@ubuntu/member/mgariepy) | |
| 12:12 | <Nexion22> dnsmask logs just says :
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| 12:12 | Oct 18 11:54:11 dnsmasq-tftp [2911]: error 0 TFTP Aborted received from 192.168.10.156Oct 18 11:54:11 dnsmasq-tftp [2911]: Unable to send /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe to 192.168.10.156Oct 18 11:54:11 dnsmasq-tftp [2911]: sent /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe to 192.168.10.156
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| 12:12 | <meo> uhh I dealt with it the other day
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| 12:13 | IIRC my problem was that the ltsp server changed IPs since the installation, so I ran ltsp dnsmasq to overwrite the dnsmasq config
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| 12:14 | <Nexion22> yes it's true I changed server IP
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| 12:14 | but I done ltsp --overwrite dnsmasq
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| 12:15 | <meo> yeah iirc you need to also restart dnsmasq and I think I regenerated the initrd as well
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| 12:15 | <Nexion22> I think I did
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| 12:16 | I try again
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| 12:19 | <Nexion22> meo I restarted everything and regenerated but same error in log
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| 12:20 | I use an external DHCP server I do not know if it can help
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| 12:22 | It is on pfsense and I think I have configured everything like with LTSP5
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| 12:28 | My fat client get an IP and ... stop
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| 12:38 | <meo> Nexion22: on pfsense you need to configure the next server and image name
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| 12:39 | also double check netmasks on pfsense and ltsp server interfaces
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| 12:39 | also bear in mind if your fat clients are old, you may need to update their BIOS because built in PXE clients are often crap
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| 12:39 | especially on e.g. lenovo thinkcentres
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| 12:42 | <Nexion22> meo I put ltsp/ltsp.ipxe for Default BIOS file name
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| 12:42 | <meo> IIRC this is how it is configured yes
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| 12:43 | <Nexion22> Ok ltsp IP for TFTP Server and Next Server
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| 12:44 | <meo> in my config it was only for next server, I didnt specify tftp server ip
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| 12:45 | <Nexion22> Ok. you also use pfsense for DHCP ?
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| 12:45 | <meo> yep
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| 12:46 | <Nexion22> What is in you /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp-dnsmasq.conf ?
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| 12:47 | Specialy for DHCP-range and DHCP-option
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| 12:47 | I did not understand very well
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| 13:02 | <meo> the server isn't here so I can't look it up
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| 13:02 | but I never actually edited anything there
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| 13:03 | it's all generated by ltsp dnsmasq
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| 13:09 | <Nexion22> Ok
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| 13:10 | Do you know what is undionly.kpxe ?
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| 13:12 | <meo> yeah, that's for broken/crappy cards that can't handle modern pxe iirc
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| 13:12 | you can try booting from that
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| 13:13 | however if that works then you have another problem: dhcpd on pfsense can't hand out different settings to different clients based on their types (the UI doesnt support it) so you need to hack around it in order to substitute the dhcp configuration file
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| 13:15 | <Nexion22> I tried a lot of options and a client suddenly started
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| 13:16 | I think after putting undionly.kpxe
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| 13:16 | <meo> then first thing to do would be try and update the clients bios to latest revision
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| 13:16 | <Nexion22> But I restarted it and again it does not start anymore
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| 13:16 | <meo> also are you *very sure* there's only one dhcp on that subnet?
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| 13:16 | <Nexion22> It's a Latitude E4310 just for testing
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| 13:18 | Mmmm only one pfSense here but multiple subnet configured
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| 13:18 | <meo> on different interfaces/vlans i hope?
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| 13:18 | <Nexion22> yes interfaces
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| 13:18 | <meo> the latest bios version for this laptop is a15
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| 13:19 | https://www.dell.com/support/home/bg/en/bgbsdt1/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=wyxp3
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| 13:19 | <Nexion22> oops A05 here
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| 13:19 | but with virtualbox it's the same problem
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| 13:20 | <meo> vith virtualbox you may want to change the emulated network adapter
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| 13:21 | you may also want to look carefully at PXE screen and dnsmasq output to see that all the mentioned IPs are correct (ie not wrong subnet)
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| 13:23 | <Nexion22> My LTSP is on 192.168.11.0 and clients on 192.168.10.0
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| 13:24 | maybe that's part of the problem?
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| 13:26 | <mwalters> what netmask/CIDR are you giving to clients via DHCP?
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| 13:27 | <Nexion22> Subnet mask255.255.255.0
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| 13:27 | like with LTSP5
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| 13:27 | <mwalters> Is there a route on the gateway allowing 192.168.10.0/24 to communicate to 192.168.11.0 and vise versa?
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| 13:28 | <Nexion22> yes
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| 13:28 | <mwalters> It needs to be both directions
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| 13:29 | and you have proxydhcp or whatever set up to allow DHCP broadcasts between the two subnets?
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| 13:29 | (I'm not fully sure how that works)
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| 13:30 | <Nexion22> on pfsense each interface has is own dhcp
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| 13:31 | <mwalters> ah ok, so dhcp is coming from 192.168.10.whatever
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| 13:31 | boot up a thick client in .11.0 and see if the server on .10.0 is reachable and vice versa
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| 13:32 | by thick client... I mean a real computer ;)
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| 13:32 | live CD or something like that
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| 13:32 | start at the beginning and make sure the network config in general works
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| 13:32 | <Nexion22> Unfortunately I can't 11.0 is only for my proxmox server. Only VM there
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| 13:33 | <mwalters> I think the correct course of action is to get a client in the 11.0/24 subnet and make sure the routing to 10.0/24 and back works
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| 13:33 | s/client/machine
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| 13:34 | <Nexion22> VM configured as fat_client on Proxmox work well
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| 13:34 | <mwalters> just something in that subnet to test communication between the two
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| 13:35 | <Nexion22> my computer is on 10.0 and I can connect to 11.0
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| 13:35 | <mwalters> can 11.0/24 communicate back to your computer?
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| 13:35 | <Nexion22> yes
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| 13:35 | <mwalters> (probably... considering it'd need to in order to let you know otherwise)
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| 13:35 | OK, so networking works... that's a good first step :)
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| 13:36 | <Nexion22> yes :)
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| 13:37 | <mwalters> That dnsmasq error you posted above... is that from pfsense or ltsp server?
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| 13:37 | <Nexion22> ltsp server
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| 13:38 | <mwalters> so client is connecting to ltsp server and looking for file. good.
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| 13:38 | <Nexion22> yes but just looking .. :(
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| 13:39 | <mwalters> you've confirmed that file exists at /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe ?
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| 13:39 | (on the ltsp server)
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| 13:39 | <Nexion22> yes
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| 13:39 | sure
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| 13:40 | ltsp.img ltsp.ipxe memtest.0 memtest.efi snponly.efi undionly.kpxe x86_64
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| 13:42 | <mwalters> and the client never loads ipxe? you just see something like "no bootable device" or similar?
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| 13:42 | Looks like sending the ipxe rom succeeds right after the initial failure
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| 13:42 | <Nexion22> they get an ip and directly stop with no error
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| 13:43 | <mwalters> oh... latitude e series, right? What CPU?
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| 13:44 | pretty sure these were available with 32bit CPUs...
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| 13:44 | (series and model # of the cpu please)
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| 13:44 | <Nexion22> i5 M560
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| 13:45 | <mwalters> that's 64bit... so shouldn't be a problem
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| 13:45 | <Nexion22> as I said, I got the same problem with virtualbox
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| 13:45 | <mwalters> oh, I missed that
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| 13:46 | <Nexion22> LTSP5 worked fine with virtualbox
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| 13:46 | <mwalters> I think i've seen reports of the ipxe rom used by Vbox being broken... but I haven't goofed with it personally... so who knows there
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| 13:46 | <Nexion22> same network configuration but not IPXE
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| 13:48 | <mwalters> Sorry, I'm not really sure at this point... it appears as though the client is being sent the file, but just not booting it
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| 13:48 | (regarding that dnsmasq-tftp log)
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| 13:48 | <Nexion22> how I can be sure that it receive the file ?
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| 13:48 | <mwalters> [2911]: sent /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe to 192.168.10.156
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| 13:49 | it looks like failure, then immediate success is sometimes "normal" with dnsmasq... at least according to the internet
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| 13:49 | <Nexion22> but before he said Oct 18 09:53:28 dnsmasq-tftp[1900]: impossible d'envoyer /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe à 192.168.10.156
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| 13:49 | <mwalters> yeah, I'm seeing reports where that happens, but still works
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| 13:49 | because software is great ;)
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| 13:49 | <Nexion22> VM in proxmox doens't have this error
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| 13:50 | <mwalters> I'm going to tap out on this one, I'm not super certain. If you hang out long enough, I'm sure alkisg may have some ideas
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| 13:50 | <Nexion22> Oct 18 11:46:59 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.ipxe à 192.168.12.167Oct 18 11:47:01 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/x86_64/vmlinuz à 192.168.12.167Oct 18 11:47:02 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.img à 192.168.12.167Oct 18 11:47:07 dnsmasq-tftp[2582]: envoyé /srv/tftp/ltsp/x86_64/initrd.img à
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| 13:50 | 192.168.12.167
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| 13:50 | VM log that success
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| 13:51 | <Nexion22> on different subnet. I placed a real machine on that subnet and no work
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| 13:52 | I'm lost
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| 13:55 | <meo> you probably want the tftp server on the same subnet
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| 13:56 | <Nexion22> with LTSP5 all was on the same VM
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| 13:56 | on 11.0 subnet
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| 13:57 | <mwalters> tftp should work across subnets no problem (as long as routing is configured correctly)
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| 13:57 | <Nexion22> I can connect to tftp from my computer
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| 13:57 | just to verity that it was reachable
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| 13:57 | same for NFS share
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| 13:58 | <mwalters> it definitely sounds like an issue with your dnsmasq config... I'm just not exactly sure what
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| 13:58 | <Nexion22> I tried many option and now just restore it with --overwrite
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| 13:58 | <mwalters> I also haven't used ltsp19 yet... so I'm generalizing all the pieces
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| 13:59 | <Nexion22> with the latitude at a time it worked then I restarted the machine and nothing
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| 13:59 | <mwalters> Again, if you hang out long enough, someone with more knowledge will show up eventually... a lot of folks are probably into their weekend right now, though... so may be until Monday
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| 14:00 | Hah, that's so frustrating... I ran into that trying to get LTSP5 working w/ UEFI clients
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| 14:00 | <Nexion22> yes it make me crazy :D
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| 14:02 | Yes I will come back on monday
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| 14:02 | <mwalters> :) have a good weekend
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| 14:03 | <Nexion22> thanks for your help mwalters and meo
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| 14:03 | have a good weekend too
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| 14:10 | <meo> you are welcome
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| 14:38 | <Nexion22> Bye all see you on monday for more funny headaches
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| 15:11 | <ogra> alkisg, just a FYI followp from yesterday (our discussion actually made me check and actually left me surprised ...)
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| 15:11 | $ du -hcs /usr/lib/chromium-browser
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| 15:11 | 230M /usr/lib/chromium-browser
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| 15:11 | vs:
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| 15:11 | $ ls -lh /var/lib/snapd/snaps/chromium_881.snap
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| 15:11 | -rw------- 1 root root 156M Okt 11 03:00 /var/lib/snapd/snaps/chromium_881.snap
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| 15:19 | <mwalters> so the snap is smaller than the deb
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| 15:19 | is what I'm learning from this?
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| 15:20 | <quinox> yup
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| 15:20 | that's nice
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| 15:20 | <ogra> right
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| 15:21 | <mwalters> oh... trying to get all my clients to show on a single epoptes server (4 servers at different locations)... alkisg sent me a termbin of something to do, which has long since expired now that I'm looking at it again ;)
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| 15:22 | 0.0.3 is the local one, I want to see all clients on... with ltsp/epoptes server on 2.0.3, 3.0.3, and 4.0.3
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| 15:22 | haven't been able to find anything regarding this on the epoptes website
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> ogra: aren't you comparing compressed snap vs extracted folder there?
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| 16:50 | mwalters: if you're trying to have one epoptes-client connect to multiple servers, that isn't easily possible
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| 16:51 | <mwalters> ah OK, I thought you had implied there was some sort of redirection or proxying possible
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> You can connect your epoptes servers to a master epoptes server , if you want
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| 16:52 | <mwalters> which would allow me to view/control all the clients via the master, right?
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| 16:53 | I think that's what we were talking about... you had said to put something in /etc/default/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/*... but the termbin you posted is long gone now ;)
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| 16:53 | (this is all referencing ltsp5, for clarity)
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| 16:53 | <alkisg> https://termbin.com/2j0r
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| 16:53 | epoptes isn't related to ltsp version
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| 16:53 | You can do that with any, or without, ltsp
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| 16:54 | <mwalters> I figured, but wanted to mention just in case... so this would go in the clients' /etc/default/Net...etc?
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| 16:54 | <alkisg> No, in the epoptes servers' /etc...
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| 16:54 | <mwalters> cool, thanks!
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| 16:54 | <alkisg> And the ip would be the one of the master epoptes server
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| 16:54 | <mwalters> yes
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| 16:55 | <alkisg> With appropriate port forwardings
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| 16:55 | (on the master server)
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| 16:55 | <mwalters> have ipsec between all servers, so no issues there :)
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| 17:13 | <ogra> alkisg, snaps are never uncompressed and i was comparing deb to snap
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| 17:15 | (snaps just get mounted ... squashfs ;) ... )
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> well, comparing the size to the .deb which is compressed rather than the unpacked directory would be more fair
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| 17:16 | <ogra> wh ?
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| 17:16 | *why
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| 17:17 | i'm comparing runtime data on disk
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> fair enough
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| 17:17 | <mwalters> is there any cpu overhead with the snap mount?
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| 17:17 | <ogra> not with the mount
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| 17:17 | * vagrantc is curious how the compressed size compares, though | |
| 17:17 | <mwalters> (any meaningful... anyways... it's probably moot when we're mounting / over nfs anyways ;) )
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| 17:17 | <ogra> there is indeed non-zero overhead for the confinement
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| 17:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: regarding Rules-Requires-Root ... i *thought* old versions would just ignore it or at worst complain about it
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| 17:18 | <ogra> i.e. on launch ...
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| 17:18 | <mwalters> neat
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| 17:20 | <ogra> vagrantc,
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| 17:20 | ogra@anubis:~$ ls -lh /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-*.deb
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| 17:20 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 60M Sep 30 22:08 /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-browser_77.0.3865.90-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_amd64.deb
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| 17:20 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2,9M Sep 30 22:08 /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-browser-l10n_77.0.3865.90-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_all.deb
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| 17:20 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 781K Sep 30 22:08 /var/cache/apt/archives/chromium-codecs-ffmpeg_77.0.3865.90-0ubuntu0.16.04.1_amd64.deb
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| 17:20 | deb obviously compresses better :)
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> what compression do snaps use by default?
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| 17:21 | <ogra> xz i think
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> same as .deb, typically
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| 17:21 | <ogra> on highest level
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| 17:22 | <vagrantc> i've been really happy with lz4 for a tradeoff between speed and compression
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| 17:22 | <ogra> i think the foundaitions team resaerched that lately for initrd
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| 17:22 | <vagrantc> e.g. whenever i'm testing ltsp, it goes *so* much faster to build hte images
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| 17:22 | <ogra> (but i'm not much involved in distro stuff anymore so not sure what the outcome was)
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> it's maybe 10-20% bigger images for LTSP fat clients than the squashfs default of gzip
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| 17:23 | <ogra> nice
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> but maybe 3-5 times faster to compress, and a little faster at decompress
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| 17:24 | speaking of ltsp images ...
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| 17:24 | alkisg: i actually tested ltsp19 for the first time yesterday!
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| 17:24 | alkisg: nice work!
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc: thank you!
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| 17:27 | (08:18:34 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: regarding Rules-Requires-Root ... i *thought* old versions would just ignore it or at worst complain about it => I think I had trouble building epoptes on xenial
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| 17:27 | If you want push it as it is; and I'll revert it if I verify that it fails to build
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| 17:28 | <ogra> i thought you use github now ...
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| 17:28 | just add a travis job that runs a test build pre-merge ;)
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| 17:28 | <alkisg> ogra, https://packages.ubuntu.com/disco/chromium-browser => 56 MB
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| 17:28 | <vagrantc> it is *possible* that epoptes fails to properly support it ... though i doubt that
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| 17:28 | <ogra> alkisg, and ? thats not whats on disk :)
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> Right, you're comparing uncompressed to compressed
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| 17:29 | So it's apples with oranges
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| 17:29 | <ogra> alkisg, no, i'm comparing runtime to runtime on disk
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> Compressed needs CPU time that uncompressed doesn't
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| 17:29 | And RAM, etc
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| 17:29 | You can't really just care about disk at that point
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| 17:29 | <ogra> snaps get mounted, not compressed on disk
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> Otherwise just use stacker from dos :)
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| 17:30 | <ogra> and as i said above, it has impact on launch time
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| 17:30 | but definitely reduces disk usage
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| 17:31 | s/compressed/uncompressed/ indeed :)
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| 17:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: still find it a little weird that there are binaries downloaded at runtime with "ltsp ipxe" ... i assume there was a reason that the packages weren't used
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> alkisg: some of the things the ltsp service sets up seem a bit intrusive or surprising, even if they're helpful
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| 17:37 | but *wow* so much easier to set up.
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| 17:40 | alkisg: what do you think about an "ltsp do-all-the-default-things" subcommand that does "apt-get install dnsmasq nfs-kernel-server ... && ltsp dnsmasq && ltsp image / && ltsp ipxe && ltsp nfs && ltsp initrd"
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| 17:41 | it's a lot to type
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| 17:41 | "ltsp default-install" maybe
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| 17:42 | i had to switch back and forth between the browser and commandline several times and found that a minor annoyance
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| 17:42 | <alkisg> (me is a bit afk, will be here in 10 mins or so)
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| 17:42 | <vagrantc> or maybe an "ltsp quickstart" which outputs the above lines that you could cut-and-paste
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| 17:42 | and ajust for your taste
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| 17:43 | adjust
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| 17:48 | alkisg: i don't seem to have push rights or the ability to accept pull requests, even though i'm a member
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> Back
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| 17:51 | (08:34:39 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: still find it a little weird that there are binaries downloaded at runtime with "ltsp ipxe" ... i assume there was a reason that the packages weren't used => there are no debian packages that ship those
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| 17:51 | If we file a bug and they get available via debian, of course we can use those
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| 17:51 | <vagrantc> ah, that would be much better
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| 17:51 | <alkisg> (08:37:16 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: some of the things the ltsp service sets up seem a bit intrusive or surprising, even if they're helpful => you mean nat on the server?
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| 17:51 | Many of those are client-side only
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| 17:51 | I think the server parts are only nat and flow control
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| 17:52 | And they do need explicit things from the sysadmin
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| 17:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ah ... it's not immediately clear what gets enabled and disabled by default (or if it's even possible to opt-out(
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| 17:52 | )
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> (08:40:35 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: what do you think about an "ltsp do-all-the-default-things" subcommand that does "apt-get install dnsmasq nfs-kernel-server ... && ltsp dnsmasq && ltsp image / && ltsp ipxe && ltsp nfs && ltsp initrd" ==> I'm not so sure about installing packages from the ltsp code; but for the other parts, sure
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| 17:53 | We can surely provide an ltsp-server metapackage if you think those defaults are fine
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| 17:54 | <vagrantc> so it comes down to weather to take over the ltsp-server package or not ... then there's the upgrade path issue
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> (08:48:15 PM) vagrantc: alkisg: i don't seem to have push rights or the ability to accept pull requests, even though i'm a member => as a quick remedy, I appointed you as a "maintainer" in the ltsp repository, which says gives you the ability to push, do pull requests, and manage some repository settings
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| 17:56 | I'll read more about members, teams etc in the future
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> yay
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| 17:56 | and pushed
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| 17:58 | alkisg: the debhelper maintainer said rules-requires-root should just issue a warning, so hopefully that doesn't cause you too much trouble. if it does, just revert it like you said
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| 17:59 | <alkisg> Great, will do
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| 17:59 | I think I'll implement an "ltsp session" hook
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| 17:59 | When enabled, it would change all /usr/share/xsessions, so that they have "ltsp session -- mate-session whatever"
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| 17:59 | So that people can more easily cleanup home directories, implement xfreerdp or whatever
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| 17:59 | And then upload 19.10
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| 18:00 | (or if you already have uploaded 19.10, then 19.10.1)
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| 18:00 | <vagrantc> haven't touched yet
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| 18:01 | alkisg: what about the other merge request?
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| 18:01 | alkisg: it's cleaner in the code, only downside is it leaves an extra copy of the same ltsp.service file in /usr/share
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| 18:02 | alkisg: could remove the /usr/share copy and symlink to the systemd one if you really couldn't stand two copies of the same file :)
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> That doesn't bother me; but I think that older debhelpers didn't do anything with .service files, so I "installed" them by hand
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| 18:02 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> Do push it, and again I'll apply a workaround if needed
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| 18:02 | I think that if jessie adds the bionic repository, it works; so that just leaves xenial, which I think handles .service files
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| 18:02 | <vagrantc> it would have to be earlier than debhelper 9, since you set the compat level, unless there's a bug in debhelper
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| 18:02 | <alkisg> So go ahead and push things, and I'll adjust whatever needed, if needed
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| 18:04 | <vagrantc> ok
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc: for the more fun stuff, try booting ubuntu-live.iso or debian-live.iso in ltsp mode; so that it automatically finds and uses filesystem.squashfs from the .iso, but still gives pam/sshfs or nfs from the server :D
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| 18:06 | Testing ltsp was never easier!
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| 18:06 | <vagrantc> yes, that's amazing work! :)
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| 18:07 | so you do ltsp image debian-live.iso ?
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> move or bind-mount debian-live.iso to /srv/ltsp/images/name.img
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| 18:07 | Then ltsp kernel name.img, and ltsp -o ipxe
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| 18:07 | No need for ltsp image, so it only needs 2 secs
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| 18:08 | Btw if noone objects, I'll make -o the default
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| 18:08 | So overwrite will be the default, with the possibility to opt out
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| 18:09 | As we expect /etc/ltsp/dnsmasq.conf or ltsp.ipxe to NOT have user contributed data
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| 18:11 | <vagrantc> seems reasonable
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| 21:58 | <Leolo_2> so I'm setting up LTSP fat clients on CentOS 6 (I know, I know)
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| 21:58 | LDM is working, ldm login works, launches xfce4. but the user's home dir isn't mounted
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| 21:59 | I was under the impression that it should be mounted with sshfs
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> would be really interesting to see ltsp19 on another distro
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| 22:02 | <Leolo_2> I will admit to also using an old version of ltsp
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| 22:02 | 5.4 it seems
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| 22:04 | <Leolo_2> where is the user's home dir supposed to be mounted?
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| 22:07 | <Leolo_2> I see X10-delayed-mounter but that doesn't seem to be for HOME
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| 22:25 | <Leolo_2> looks like it should be happening in X01-localapps
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| 22:35 | aha, I found the problem : stat -c %m doesn't work on centos 6 :-)
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| 22:59 | woot, now it works
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