IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 March 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:12 | <KBme> hi
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| 08:13 | i was wondering if someone knew if i needed an expensive switch or if I can do dhcp-proxy and extended dhcp via a debian host with isc-dhcpd
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| 08:14 | last time i set up ltsp the network part (big cisco switches back then) was handled by a guy who knew the cisco stuff
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| 08:14 | <alkisg> Can you describe your current situation and your goal better?
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| 08:15 | <KBme> well, we're about to set up a 6/8-machine ltsp room
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| 08:15 | the goal is to minimise administration time by using thin clients and ltsp-server
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| 08:15 | i'm preparing to buy the hardware now
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| 08:15 | <alkisg> I mean about your network setup, your switches etc
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| 08:15 | What do you need a proxy for, etc
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| 08:15 | <KBme> ah
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| 08:16 | well there is allready a network set up
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| 08:16 | a small office network
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| 08:16 | so we're going to buy a 24-port gigabit switch
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| 08:16 | just for that room
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| 08:16 | so there is allready a dhcp server (the adsl modem)
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| 08:17 | <alkisg> There are many solutions, just trying to understand what you need so that we can propose one that suits you better
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| 08:17 | <KBme> but i'm really not sure i need proxy-dhcp, i think a debian dhcp server with pxe defined should do the job fine i think
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| 08:17 | alkisg: really, my problem is that switches with pxe support are really expensive
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| 08:17 | <alkisg> First of all do you know what a proxydhcp is?
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| 08:17 | <KBme> so i want to bypass that
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| 08:18 | <alkisg> Because isc-dhcp never supported that
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| 08:18 | ics-dhcp has a dhcp relay application, not a proxy one
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| 08:18 | <KBme> alkisg: i don't think so...i thought i had read about it on the pxe wikipedia page
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| 08:18 | <alkisg> dnsmasq supports proxy dhcp
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| 08:18 | You don't need pxe support on the switch
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| 08:18 | But let's get this from the start
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| 08:19 | The classic ltsp setup is with 2 nics on the ltsp server
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| 08:19 | Are you going to use 2 nics?
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| 08:19 | <KBme> ok that's pretty much what i needed to know
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| 08:19 | huuuum, i can have two nics, yes
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| 08:19 | we can but an other gigabit nic that's a non-issue
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| 08:19 | s,but,buy,
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| 08:19 | <alkisg> Then you just isolate the ltsp clients behind the gigabit switch, and connect the other nic to the internet
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| 08:19 | That's the classic ltsp setup
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| 08:20 | <KBme> ah
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> You don't need any special configuration or hardware for that
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| 08:20 | <KBme> interesting
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| 08:20 | <KBme> ok, is there a specific reason why you isolate ltsp clients?
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> First, so that you don't mess with your existing network setup
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| 08:20 | <Roasted__> Question. I'm setting up a server with two NIC's. I'm using a Windows DHCP server. Would I just have to create two entries on the DHCP server of those 3 lines in the documentation, with each set of 3 pertaining to each IP?
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> I.e. keep the dhcp server on the router running , etc. Second, for security
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| 08:21 | <KBme> ok, a smart reason :)
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| 08:21 | yeap
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| 08:21 | ok, thanks
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> Now, that's the classic setup, but of course you can use 1 nic (I am)
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| 08:21 | For 1 nic, you can use a proxydhcp: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 08:21 | <KBme> i'll come back for moar probably ;)
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> OK if you don't need other options :)
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| 08:21 | <KBme> heheh
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| 08:22 | what is the easiest ltsp setup? debian? ubuntu?
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| 08:22 | <Appiah> my experince says Ubuntu
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| 08:23 | <KBme> damn :)
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> Debian is not much harder, don't worry
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| 08:24 | <KBme> right on
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| 08:24 | alkisg: well, i think isolating the network is a very good idea, so i'll add a gige nic to the shopping list ;)
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> KBme: well, it depends on your goals
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| 08:25 | E.g. if you start talking about localapps and fat clients, you won't get much out of network isolation
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| 08:25 | <KBme> localapps?
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| 08:25 | wat? :)
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| 08:26 | is that lolcatapps misspelled? :p
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| 08:26 | * KBme googles localapps | |
| 08:26 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 08:26 | !docs
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| 08:26 | Erm the bot's down, see the topic for the docs link
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| 08:26 | <KBme> ah, ok
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| 08:27 | alkisg: on the wiki? i did a full-text search but it returned nothing interesting
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| 08:27 | <alkisg> There's a multi-page pdf there
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| 08:28 | <KBme> gotcha
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| 08:29 | alkisg: well, local applications page is kind of empty :p
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| 08:32 | <Roasted__> any ideas on dual nics?
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| 08:32 | <KBme> Roasted__: what do you mean?
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| 08:32 | <Roasted__> Question. I'm setting up a server with two NIC's. I'm using a Windows DHCP server. Would I just have to create two entries on the DHCP server of those 3 lines in the documentation, with each set of 3 pertaining to each IP?
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| 08:32 | <KBme> Roasted__: are both nics connected to the windows machine?
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| 08:33 | <Roasted__> both nics are connected to the network. on the network is the windows dhcp machine.
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| 08:34 | I'm curious if utilizing both gig nic's would help out in any way shape or form bandwidth wise
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| 08:34 | I mean, they're here, why not use them
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| 08:34 | but I wasn't sure how EACH nic would know about the windows DHCP server unless I put in the entries in the windows DHCP server the way I did for my other server iwth 1 nic. I just wasn't sure if I can do that with BOTH.
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| 08:34 | <KBme> Roasted__: you'll probably want to bond those interfaces then to have bigger bandwidth
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| 08:34 | <Roasted__> how would I go about that?
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| 08:34 | <KBme> so if you do bond then you don't need to add two entries
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| 08:35 | but your router/switch has to support it
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| 08:35 | Roasted__: just look for a linux interface bonding documentation
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| 08:35 | it's really simple
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| 08:35 | there's multiple ways to do it depending on your network configuration
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| 08:36 | <Roasted__> is it even possible to do what I was asking about though, for sake of knowing?
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| 08:36 | <KBme> and what you want to use bonding for
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| 08:36 | yes, it is possible
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| 08:36 | this is linux! ;)
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| 08:37 | i did some bonding and it did help a whole lot
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| 08:37 | <Roasted__> no I meant with the windows dhcp side
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| 08:37 | if I want 2 NICs do I just add two entries to DHCP
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| 08:37 | about the pxe boot for the LTSP server
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| 08:38 | <KBme> well
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| 08:38 | <Roasted__> I know I have to do it for one, I did it on my test server. But now that I have 2 NICs Im like ehh?
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| 08:38 | <KBme> i'm not sure about that you might need to do trial and error
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| 08:38 | for the bonding type where your interfaces appears as one interface i don't think you need to add two entries
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| 08:38 | that's what you use if you bond for performance reasons
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| 09:03 | <gnujach> help i have a thin client with video card INTEL 82845G with problem someone helpme?
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| 09:04 | <Appiah> !ask
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| 09:05 | hmm
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| 09:05 | we dont have that =(
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| 09:05 | just ask and state your problem gnujach
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| 09:05 | <mnemoc> hi, for playing with LTSP locally, do you know in ubuntu where can I tweak the config network-manager passes to dnsmasq when used to share internet? according to `ps` it's using --conf-file /tmp/mbnyvvmubx.conf but that file doesn't exist :<
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| 09:06 | <gnujach> my X cratch Appiah
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| 09:06 | <Appiah> maybe ask that #ubuntu or #gnome mnemoc
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| 09:07 | i assume you are talking about the gnome network manager?
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| 09:07 | <gnujach> is a problem with a thin client of LTSP 5
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| 09:07 | <Appiah> gnujach: well what does the xorg log say
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| 09:08 | <mnemoc> gnujach: at least in ubuntu it's used for every DE...
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| 09:08 | <gnujach> are not, how view this
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| 09:08 | <mnemoc> gnujach: asking at #ubuntu too, but i thought more likely to find someone knowing it here than there
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| 09:09 | <KBme> #ubuntu is floodland
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| 09:09 | <gnujach> thank
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| 09:09 | <KBme> i can't even imagine anone getting help in there
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| 09:10 | <gnujach> i guest my problem is with resolution the monitro
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| 09:10 | <mnemoc> KBme: i've tried several times with different topics, but never a reply there :<
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| 09:10 | <Appiah> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkManager
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| 09:10 | <KBme> mnemoc: yeap, me too, not once did i get help
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| 09:10 | <Appiah> gnujach: did you view the xorg log?
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| 09:10 | <KBme> also, my question flooded past and was on screen for 10 seconds at most
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| 09:11 | <Appiah> well I dont see ever when you deal with the network-manager in a ltsp setup >_>
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| 09:11 | <mnemoc> Appiah: I want to use my notebook as server
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| 09:11 | <gnujach> Appiah are not how can view the xorg log
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| 09:12 | <mnemoc> Appiah: for testing
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| 09:12 | <Appiah> gnujach: open your favorite text editor
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| 09:12 | /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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| 09:12 | <gnujach> Appiah
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| 09:12 | <gnujach> appiah into my server LTSP?
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| 09:12 | <Appiah> gnujach: client
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| 09:13 | <gnujach> Appiah: i cant, my client crash later of login
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| 09:13 | <Appiah> so you get to the login
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| 09:13 | and THEN it crashes
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| 09:13 | ?
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| 09:13 | <gnujach> Appiah: yes
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| 09:14 | exact!
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| 09:14 | <Appiah> go to shell
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| 09:14 | or ssh to the client
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| 09:14 | and access the log
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| 09:14 | mnemoc: and you use network-manger to setup a NAT or wat?
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| 09:15 | what*
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| 09:15 | <gnujach> Appiah: i go
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| 09:16 | Appiah: howto run the command xrandc into my client?
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| 09:16 | <Appiah> xrandc?
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| 09:16 | what
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| 09:16 | I dont know what that command does and if you want to run it from a client I guess you need to install it in the chroot first
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| 09:17 | <gnujach> xorry rrandr command
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| 09:18 | <Appiah> well same there
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> xrandr
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| 09:18 | <mnemoc> Appiah: yes, it has a one-click option to setup your ethernet in "share" mode (using NAT and dnsmasq magically) ... which is connected to a hub on my desk and then to a PXE thin client. so I want to enable tftp to make it useful :)
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| 09:18 | <gnujach> Apiiah: xrandr
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> gnujach: try this command on the server: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 09:19 | Then try to login on the client
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| 09:20 | <gnujach> alkisg: I do
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| 09:20 | <Appiah> I see , never used network-manager
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> mnemoc: where is that option?
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| 09:21 | <mnemoc> alkisg: edit eth0 -> ipv4 settings -> method: share with other computers (roughly translated from my .es UI)
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> mnemoc: I'm using lucid gnome, I don't see that "share" option in ipv4 settings tab
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| 09:22 | Ah ok
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| 09:22 | Just saw it
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| 09:23 | <mnemoc> after that "/etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/Auto eth0" (dosini file) gains a [ipv4] method=shared
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> Erm. And you don't define an IP there?
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| 09:23 | <mnemoc> all magic
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> But what if you do want a static ip?
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| 09:23 | <Appiah> O_o
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| 09:23 | <mnemoc> I get 10.42.43.1/24
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| 09:23 | not sure if it's fixed or random
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> That's for a second NIC?
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| 09:24 | <mnemoc> eth0, I get "internet" from wifi
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| 09:24 | and then share it to my desk
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> So a second nic. Cool, thanks for the tip
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| 09:24 | I did it manually so far, with NAT
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| 09:25 | <mnemoc> :)
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| 09:25 | <Appiah> same same
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| 09:25 | never done any NATing with tools to do them auto for me
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> I did use network-manager to give a 1-nic system 2 IPs though, and it worked great
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| 09:25 | <Appiah> always ended up doing things myself anyways beacuse I wanted something changed
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| 09:26 | <KBme> the thing is that these tools usually add complicated configurations so if you want to 1, understand the network topo. 2, edit something by hand
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| 09:26 | <alkisg> I wonder what happens if I already use dnsmasq though
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| 09:26 | <KBme> you're in a pretty bad shape
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| 09:26 | <mnemoc> i don't feel confortable messing with my $work$station
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| 09:26 | <Appiah> then maybe your ltsp server should be virtual? :)
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| 09:27 | <mnemoc> good point, I already "poisoned" my notebook with LTSP :p
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| 09:27 | <KBme> for anyone looking for nice and simple linux virt i recommend lxc
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> Btw I use my laptop as an ltsp server too, but I use the existing router as a dhcp server wherever I go
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| 09:28 | <KBme> if it's not production
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> So no need for natting or anything weird
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| 09:28 | <Appiah> KBme: I think qemu-kvm and/or virtualbox is easy enough , why lxc? anything better there?
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| 09:29 | <KBme> Appiah: speed is uncomparable
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> gnujach: did it work?
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| 09:29 | <KBme> you get native speed with lxc
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| 09:29 | <Appiah> what speedy things do you need to run?
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| 09:30 | <KBme> Appiah: i usually test stuff first on a virtual machine on my workstation, then deploy
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| 09:30 | <Appiah> I can tell the diff between virtualbox and qemu-kvm
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| 09:30 | <KBme> so i like to have fast speed, to get over the virtual stuff and implement
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| 09:30 | <Appiah> but you think there's a huge diff between qemu-kvm and lxc?
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> Appiah: which one feels faster? vbox or qemu-kvm?
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| 09:30 | <KBme> oh yeah
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| 09:30 | <gnujach> alkisg: follows the same error: (process: 200) GLib-Warning: ** getpwidr() falied sue to unknow user id(0)
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| 09:30 | <KBme> Appiah: lxc is blazing fast, as i said, native speed
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| 09:30 | <Appiah> qemu-kvm is faster alkisg
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> gnujach: ignore that it's unrelated
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| 09:31 | <Appiah> (to the tests i've done)
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> gnujach: which distro/version are you using?
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| 09:31 | <gnujach> alkisg: not allow work
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> Yes, but that's not your problem, another thing is the problem
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| 09:32 | <gnujach> alksig: ubuntu 10.04 ltsp 5.0
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| 09:32 | <KBme> Appiah: with lxc i can get a minimal debian up in 1 minute and then install everything i need in 10 minutes, it's really nice
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| 09:32 | and i've been over all sorts of virt.: openvz, linux vserver, xen, kvm
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| 09:32 | <Appiah> compared to debbootstrap?
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| 09:32 | <gnujach> alkisg: other client work well
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| 09:32 | <KBme> this is by far the simplest and fastest
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| 09:33 | Appiah: it uses a cached debootstrapped system
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| 09:33 | <mnemoc> alkisg: I suppose I have to quit from use the one-button-magic and set it up manually in the same way you do
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| 09:33 | <gnujach> alkisg: my terminal in mode shell work well
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> gnujach: intel 855 cards don't work good with 10.04. Either try 10.10, or use the workarounds defined in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Lucidi8xxFreezes
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| 09:34 | mnemoc: I'm using magic too, but with a single nic in proxydhcp mode
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| 09:34 | Not 2 nic setup
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| 09:34 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 09:36 | <gnujach> alksig appiah, very very thank i go to download 10.10
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| 09:36 | <mnemoc> alkisg: oh, thanks for the pointer :)
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> gnujach: you can also build a 10.10 chroot on your existing 10.04 server
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| 09:38 | bb all
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| 09:39 | <KBme> Appiah: one thing, tho, i don't think you can do an nfs server in an lxc container since there is no real kernel running
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| 09:39 | <gnujach> alkisg: some tutorial for this?
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| 09:39 | <KBme> not sure
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| 09:40 | <Appiah> KBme hmm
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| 09:40 | <KBme> the userspace daemons shouldn't have a problem but since nfs is in-kernel, i'm not sure how that works out
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| 09:42 | <Appiah> and that's the thing, I dont feel limited when I run stuff in qemu-kvm
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| 09:42 | and the speed is not slow
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| 09:43 | but I should get to testing lxc sometime
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| 09:43 | <KBme> well, it is quite slow honestly compared to native, but yeah, it's different
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| 09:45 | <Appiah> not slow as in , not slow enough to get me to rage
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| 09:45 | :D
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| 09:47 | <KBme> heh, yeah, kvm is good that way
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| 09:47 | man i remember the usermode-linux days
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| 09:47 | gaaaaaaah
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| 09:53 | <mnemoc> uml is not that old...
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| 09:54 | <Roasted__> What was the command to remove DHCP services from the LTSP server?
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| 09:54 | remove dhcp3-server + install standalone or something
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| 12:13 | <jonathas___> can anyone help me?
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| 12:14 | <KBme> mnemoc: no but it was very slow
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| 12:15 | <mnemoc> :)
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| 12:15 | <jonathas___> im having problem with my rtl8110sc network card.. returnig kernel panic at the boot
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| 12:16 | anyone knows what parameter i have to pass in "NIC=" option ???
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| 12:22 | ?
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| 16:25 | <dserban> anyone remember where ldm triggers scripts
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| 16:25 | ?
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| 16:25 | I wrote a script to log logins on all clients... I need to find out where it is so I can edit it... he
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| 16:25 | heh :)
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| 16:53 | <MikeF1> Anyone having issues with online Debian or Ubuntu installs recently? The ltsp-build-client script can't download some packages and doesn't seem to have a documented restart option. Plan B is to install from the ubuntu alternate CD ...
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| 17:02 | <msignor> mikef1
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| 17:02 | i am
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| 17:02 | let me clarify -- i cant get it to fully boot and mount nfs on debian as of yet
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| 17:07 | <highvoltage> msignor: what do you have in /etc/exports ?
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| 17:08 | msignor: did you configure a dhcp server or check /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf?
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| 17:09 | * highvoltage is budding in and asking questions without reading backlog, fwiw | |
| 17:15 | <msignor> highvoltage: I am exporting /opt/ltsp as well as /home
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| 19:48 | <msignor> hello - on a scratch install of debian.. all I need is ltsp-server and I should be good to go, right?
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| 19:49 | alreayd have the dhcp, pxe, etc, etc.
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| 22:58 | <cyberorg> alkisg, hi, got few problems on opensuse 11.4, may be you can help :) icons of usb sticks do not show up on desktop where do i look?
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| 22:58 | stick is mounted in /media/username/ and accessible
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| 22:58 | <alkisg> cyberorg: and if you put them on the server they do?
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| 22:58 | (i.e. are the gnome settings for that ok?)
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| 22:59 | <cyberorg> yup, shows up fine on the server
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| 23:01 | <alkisg> I heard that happen on recent ubuntu versions too - but I don't use localdevs (nor localapps) so I haven't seen it with my own eyes
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| 23:02 | <cyberorg> second issue is all gtk apps icons have solid boxes around them
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| 23:02 | <alkisg> In the menus?
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| 23:03 | <cyberorg> yeah everywhere, it happens on any apps launched via ssh -X (whole of ltsp)
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| 23:03 | <alkisg> OK that one I've never heard of. Screenshot?
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| 23:03 | Does it also happen with LDM_DIRECTX=True?
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| 23:04 | <cyberorg> yup
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| 23:04 | <alkisg> So e.g. `ssh -X localhost gedit` gives you boxes around the icons on the toolbar?
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| 23:05 | <cyberorg> lhttps://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=419421
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| 23:05 | ssh -X localhost looks normal
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| 23:05 | <alkisg> Ah alpha blending issue
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| 23:05 | Do you have some proprietary driver on the server?
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| 23:06 | E.g. nvidia or ati?
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| 23:06 | <cyberorg> nopes, all intel
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| 23:07 | https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=679730
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| 23:07 | <alkisg> Effects (e.g. compiz) on or off?
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| 23:07 | <cyberorg> off
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| 23:08 | it does not make any difference on or off
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| 23:09 | i am sure everyone moving to new gnome is going to run into this
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| 23:09 | are there any ubuntu patches to gnome to solve this?
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| 23:10 | <alkisg> I haven't seen that in natty - nor anywhere...
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| 23:11 | And it doesn't make much sense why it would fail over ssh on *some* cases (e.g. the title bars are ok)
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| 23:11 | Someone that knows well gtk internals is needed for this...
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| 23:12 | <cyberorg> yeah, got vuntz to look into it, was hoping you guys already solved it :)
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| 23:14 | let me know if you find anything about the missing usb stick icons on the desktop too
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| 23:14 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 00:00 | --- Wed Mar 16 2011 | |