IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 February 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> !nbd-client
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| 06:09 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 18:35 | <markit> hi alkisg, I would like to try kubuntu 18.04 for a school for the first time. But I would do a "pnp" install with 2 lans and inside a qemu vm (on a Proxmox server). My question is: does it work fine if the teacher is on a (fat) client himself?
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| 18:35 | How can I prevent students from printing, but not teachers? Have only teacher belong to lpr group (or something like that) but they still see the printer?
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| 18:37 | and finally, since the teacher has to do some work on the server (i.e. add/delete accounts, reset student home config files etc), how could he "log" in the vm from the client? What about a dual boot "teacher client" and second boot has a stand alone kubuntu with xrdp against the server (does xrdp work fine?)
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| 18:37 | end of questions :)
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| 18:39 | oh, one more thing... I remember that there was a sort of "standard config", like server name being "server" and thin client network being like 192.168.XY.0/24, but can't find a document that says so
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| 18:42 | ok, remove last question, I've just found it (shame on me) "LTSP expects you to set up a static IP of 192.168.67.1 for the internal subnet"
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| 19:01 | <alkisg> markit: yes it works fine if the teacher is using a fat client
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| 19:02 | About allowing teachers but not students to print, google it in general, it's not specific to ltsp
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| 19:02 | You could say CUPS_SERVER=localhost per client, but not per user
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| 19:02 | To log in to the VM remotely, you can either use a thin client, or xfreerdp, or x2go, or vnc...
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| 20:16 | <markit> alkisg: I mean, you don't have ltsp on a VM in some schools? The advantage is that the school Proxmox server is always on, so I can update or whatever from remote at every time I like, and also Proxmox does a full scheduled backup, or I can create snapshots and test upgrades/updates etc.
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| 20:17 | so the "client with hd that can boot and connect" to the VM server could be the best way, so I can reboot the server or rebuild the client image without cutting my legs
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| 20:18 | wondering if xrdp works good enough, I will do some tests (so many times FOSS has a lot of options, but when you try them you find that are half-broken)
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> markit: having a VM means maintaining 2 different installations
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| 20:19 | Most teachers don't want that
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| 20:19 | And also, it requires more ram, cpu etc
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| 20:19 | If the server reboots, /home for the clients is cut anyway
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| 20:20 | It doesn't matter much if the OS stays up once you lose your work and files
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| 20:20 | The performance of desktop is: fat client > thin client (=remote xorg) > x2go, freerdp > vnc
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| 20:21 | So fat is always the best way to go
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| 20:23 | <markit> alkisg: btw, I've seen there is a 1.0 release of epoptes, I have to try it to see if solves the broadcast teacher's video bug recent version had with KDE (btw, I've completed the italian translation). I've also seen that Italc is resurrected and now more FOSS.
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> Yeah, let's hope he continues maintaining it and doesn't stop after a few years again
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| 20:24 | <markit> recently I'm very confused and upset about the network status of servers, I'm old school "/etc/network/interfaces" and "resolv.conf", 2 files and you dominated the networking setup
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| 20:25 | now I'm clueless, systemd is getting pervasive, netplan of ubuntu is a new thing with json config files, etc.
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| 20:25 | <mwalters> yaml, not json
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| 20:25 | <markit> mwalters: thanks
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| 20:26 | <mwalters> "yet another markup language" :)
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| 20:26 | So, the cool thing about netplan is... regardless of netplan or networkd, it works
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| 20:26 | or at least that's the idea
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| 20:26 | eer, regardless of networkmanager or networkd, it works ;)
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| 20:27 | I found getting bonds up and running pretty easy w/ netplan
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| 20:27 | <||cw> it's also very flexible, though the defaults are not friendly in a mixed OS environment
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| 20:27 | <markit> yep, but you have a complex syntax that you can't remember, and a lot of layers... if you install dnsmasq how does it integrate with systemd-resolver? with /etc/network/interfaces configuration? and so on
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| 20:27 | <||cw> major issue with windows DHCP that less than obvious how to fix
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| 20:27 | <mwalters> yaml's syntax is pretty straight forward, which was the point of it
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| 20:28 | meaningful whitespace... no braces
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| 20:28 | <markit> mwalters: well, maybe I'm getting too old, but syntax is becoming complex, and having "3-4 ways" to configure networking is not a "clean design"
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| 20:28 | <mwalters> I'll say this: I had your initial reaction to it ;)
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| 20:28 | Then I was OK once I got over my initial "grumpy old man"ness and everything was OK ;)
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| 20:29 | <markit> also from console I can't tell what dns is in use... and how to change "on the fly"...
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| 20:29 | with desktop too, nmcli and no clue
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| 20:29 | <mwalters> I'll agree with you there... how to change config "on the fly" is unclear to me... supposedly: `netplan apply` does it... I've had mixed results
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| 20:29 | <markit> mwalters: yep, but still netplan is, AFAIU, very "ubuntu specific"
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| 20:30 | <mwalters> I generally resort to using `ip` on my manjaro laptop
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| 20:31 | I attribute most of *my* issues to not thoroughly reading the docs, though ;)
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| 20:31 | I got it working well enough and moved on
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| 20:32 | <markit> mwalters: yes, but you have to learn "if you are using systemd-whatever then...", " else if you are using netplan then..." but what if I've both installed? Which prevails? And if I remove one?
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| 20:32 | <mwalters> You ever play jenga? ;)
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| 20:32 | <markit> and if I install dnsmasq, does it work fine? Is the packager responsability to make it work, or mine?
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| 20:33 | * markit googling for jenga | |
| 20:33 | <markit> lol
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| 20:33 | <mwalters> in reference to "remove one"
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| 20:33 | * markit loves ranting on IRC | |
| 20:34 | <mwalters> Yeah, dunno. I haven't gotten into really advanced configs yet. I have ubuntu server/networkd on my VM hosts... doing bonding using netplan... my LTSP servers are ubuntu-mate 18.04 w/ networkmanager... non fancy configs there, though
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| 20:34 | It seems to work well enough
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| 20:34 | When I was migrating all my boxes, I had a terrible time getting bonding to work with networkmanager & netplan
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| 20:35 | I hade mate on my laptop and wanted to temporarily host some freepbx VMs on there and it just didn't work right and I never did figure it out
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| 20:35 | bridging, not bonding
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| 20:35 | bonding w/ network manager & netplan on a desktop install
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| 20:36 | I'm sure it was due to my inexperience... and never *really* understanding how networking worked on linux anyways ;)
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| 20:36 | <markit> mwalters: do you have ltsp with a 2 nic config? Do you config also client lan with network manager? Does bonding with NM work?
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| 20:36 | <mwalters> Naw, I don't do the 2 nic thing
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| 20:37 | I work in a non-profit, not education. My usecase is different :D
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| 20:37 | <markit> I'm wondering what advantage I would have with 2 nics setup in my VM
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| 20:37 | <mwalters> (e.g., non-lab/non-classroom environment)
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| 20:38 | My guess would be not having to worry about vlans/subnets with more than 1 dhcp server
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| 20:38 | E.g., you're making your own little broadcast domain
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| 20:39 | With a VM you have this strange situation where you need to create the network physically and virtually, though
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| 20:39 | that sounds complicated ;)
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| 20:40 | I have 4 separate LTSP servers, all on 4 separate networks (and 4 separate physical buildings)
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| 20:40 | I just use dnsmasq on the LTSP box for dhcp
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| 20:40 | *boxes
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| 20:41 | <markit> mwalters: have a look at Proxmox project, I find virtualization to be the best thing since beer invention for our sysadmin
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| 20:41 | <mwalters> My LTSP servers are virtualized w/ libvirt/qemu/kvm
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> (10:26:47 μμ) mwalters: eer, regardless of networkmanager or networkd, it works ;) => https://xkcd.com/927/
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| 20:41 | So now ltsp will need to support 4 different things :D
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| 20:42 | (including ifupdown, /etc/network/interfaces)
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| 20:42 | <mwalters> alkisg: I need one of those "Days since ___" flip charts for this comic ;)
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 20:42 | The good thing about netplan is that it's made by ubuntu, so it'll die along with snaps not very far in the future
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| 20:43 | <mwalters> lololol
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> If debian froze in a constant date every two years (and released when it could), and had a proper live cd image/installer, I think i'd have already switched to it...
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| 20:44 | <markit> I'm scared by systemd, is too pervasive, wondering why wants to manage networking also, and dns
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> If systemd grows up to cover everything except for the desktop apps, it'll be great
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| 20:45 | No more distro specific chaos
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| 20:45 | <mwalters> ...I watched a good presentation on "why systemd" over the weekend
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| 20:45 | in a nutshell: the nature of a "daemon" has changed drastically over the last 25 years
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| 20:45 | <markit> yep, and just a single point of failure with maybe a huge system registry with all settings in one place in binary format... oh, hold on, we already have it! Win rulez
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| 20:46 | <mwalters> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
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| 20:46 | well
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| 20:46 | the title is a bit snarky ;)
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> markit: binary settings are the best, yes
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| 20:47 | Better performance. That's why dconf uses them.
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| 20:47 | <mwalters> I found the history lesson interesting, if nothing else
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| 20:47 | there might be some nsfw language in there, I can't recall
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> single point of failure => not sure what you mean there; why, sysvinit wasn't a single point?
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| 20:48 | Isn't the kernel a single point?
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| 20:48 | <markit> if dnsmasq is buggy or has any problem, I can use bind
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| 20:48 | <mwalters> do people have dnsmasq and bind9 installed on the same system?
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> If dnsmasq AND bind developers worked on the same system, it would have less bugs than both of them
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| 20:49 | Same for the kernel, same for init systems, same for almost any software
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| 20:49 | <mwalters> if people made good software, the software would be good ;)
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| 20:49 | <markit> mmm with foss if you merge 2 teams, you don't double the energy and improve the development I think
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| 20:49 | <mwalters> my sarcasm might get lost in translation there
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| 20:49 | <alkisg> Oh now they're trying to make people with software :P (genome editing)
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| 20:50 | <mwalters> https://xkcd.com/2030/
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| 20:50 | speaking of software
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| 20:51 | Is there one of those "internet laws" for XKCD, yet? Something like, "for any conversation occuring over the internet, there is a relevant XKCD comic"
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| 20:52 | <alkisg> I think its quality has degraded though
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| 20:52 | <mwalters> I'm sure it's difficult to keep pumping them out at the rate he does
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| 20:53 | I bought my daughter his "thing explainer" book when she was 7ish, she loved it
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| 20:54 | I suspect a significant portion of his work has a US bias that I don't quite notice
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| 20:54 | As far as social commentary goes
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| 21:28 | <markit> Sleep time, thanks to everybody and good night :)
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