it's in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc?
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i'm not trying to start a flamewar, but what's your guys' opinion on gnome vs. kde for an elementary/primary school environment, as far as locking down the thin-client desktop, memory/cpu requirements and general student usability?
I don't know I always seem to go with gnome, but I haven't worked with ltsp much since about version 2
i chose gnome after deciding that i need to use a "functional" desktop for students (my personal fav. is fluxbox)
but never really got much into KDE because I really disliked the user interface (but never went into modifying it much)
what about ratpoison thats a good one ;)
i'm setting up a lab at a kids camp, like a summer camping facility
we have 8 old compaq deskpro's with s3virge cards in them
haven't quite figured out how to get x working on them yet, but i'll keep pluggin away at it
server is just some old box w/ 1.8 ghz proc and 1.5 gb ram
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root@ubuntu710:~# chroot /opt/ltsp/
chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': No such file or directory
is there any conf i need to tweak in gutys for chroot command?
oww my mistake
it should be chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
|01:08||* ari_stress is embarrased|
well i have this package installed in the chroot xserver-xorg-video-s3virge
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hi @all, anyone here experiences with Neoware Eon-Thinclients in combination with Edubuntu?
hi all, how do i add printer in client? should i logon first as admin?
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I am having trouble with an edubuntu ltsp install. the client stop booting after saying "starting LTSP client" what could cause this ?
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I have been having trouble getting my client to boot, I think I found the problem, in that the video hardware isn't detected correctly, how do I fix this ?
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I think I have a OK version of the xorg.conf being used (at least I don't get a black screen now). But it does nothing after printing "Starting LTSP client [OK]" :( what is meant to happen ? how do I fix this ?
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ogra:any way to differentiate at second dhcp between i386 and powerpc..Both have option 60 as "Linux ipconfig"
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and where would be best to leave notes about this doubleboot thingie (technical term)
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Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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a new day, a new problem to solve ;)
how can I start another session with the help of Xnest, since the user switcher is not working in a thin client environment?
I was playing around with Xnest, gdmflexiserver, gdmXnest and gdmXnestchooser, but all I got was either a blank or gray window with X mousepointer, without anything else
means: I want to be able to login as another user from a thin client from the already open session, without logging out or using another xserver session on virtual console 8
I guess, that should not be that difficult
This will be exceedingly hard, going on impossible, for a couple of reasond:
1) GDM itself doesn't support this feature from remote sessions
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2) LDM can't support it, as how it's implemented locally under GDM requires full access to the "new" users' home dir, etc, which doesn't exist on a thin client.
isn't it a local session for gdm, since the command is executed on the server?
Not really, since all the XAUTH stuff is remote.
Which is what the GDM fast user switch relies on.
didn't think of that
it's been a while since I played around with gdmflexiserver, I just remember it was that easy to ssh into another machine and execute gdmflexiserver
The GDM flexi server gets around it by doing, in essence, an "xhost +", to allow the new user access to the X display.
so if I want to be logged in as two different users at the same time on the same thin client, the only remaining way is to have two xserver sessions on screen 07 & 08, right?
On a local machine, this is OK, since you can only have one person sitting on the mouse/keyboard/crt anyway.
To implement the same functionality on a remote terminal would open you up to all sorts of abuse.
MasterOne: That's the simplest, and the reason why we provide that functionality :)
ok, will do so :)
have to logout now and adjust my lts.conf
thanks for your quick response, sbalneav
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Hmmm, anyone have any good suggestions for changing icons on users' panels?
sbalneav: as in icon themes?
I'm looking at using Python's gconf support, looking through /apps/panel/objects, finding the one I want, and changing it.
No, here's the deal... We've FINALLY managed to fix the &!%$!* webapp we got given so it'll work with firefox, instad of mozilla
so, I've got 170+ users with customized desktops, but they ALL have "mozilla" icons on the desktop
err, the panel, I should say.
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Overnight, I'd like to change them all to firefox.
so, my options are (that I can see)
1) point the "mozilla" bin to "firefox" with a symlink (ick)
2) Send around an email saying "click here, click here click here, drag this do this", and it'll never get done by 2/3's of the employees :)
3) Try to figure out a way to change their panels programatically, so that it's under my control :)
But the python-gconf bindings are.... sparsely documented :)
yeah, gconf's the solution
doesnt need to be as fancy as python-gconf
you can sed the xml file for the usr ;)
Oooooh, isn't that "bad"?
why should it be bad?
Dunno. Seems like I should do it "properly" using gconf-tool2 or an api or some such.
But hey, any old port in a storm :)
right - well the more proper way would be to use gconftool-2
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ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 14 hours, 22 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <ogra> indeed
ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 14 hours, 22 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <ogra> indeed
I am still fighting with this weird thing
Might be a grue
they're pretty wierd
yeah i got them on ggl img brrr scary 1
but from that one i could win
this one, is weirder!
on the tc, gnome starts fine
but can not click menu's or anything on the desktop
on the server, it works okay
on the tc, the preferences butoon on the login screen does nothing
on the server, i have kde als wm,
but on the tc it just goes to gnome !
how's that for grue !?
Your default desktop is likely still gnome
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yet if I login on the server, I get kde, no quuestions asked.
so, kde is the default, not !?
use update-alternatives to set x-session-manager to kdesession
ace_suares: Well, that's what your .dmrc is set to
woops... in the chrooted env or on the plain server ?
unfortunately, ldm doesn't currently respect the .dmrc file.
that's a bug we need to fix
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but on the tc i get gnome...
it's ldm that does this
LDM just executes /etc/X11/Xsession
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which looks at the /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager
sbalneav:any way to differentiate at second dhcp between i386 and powerpc..Both have option 60 as "Linux ipconfig"
cliebow__: No idear, unfortunately. I don't have a PPC box that works, so I've never been able to try :(
update-alternatives --set x-session-manager kde-session
what does update-alternatives --list x-session-manager give you?
Using `/usr/bin/startkde' to provide `x-session-manager'. that looks better.
must be a way to change option 60 in the chroot?
cause it has been several different things 8~)
gconftool-2 -R "/apps/panel/objects" | grep "^ /" | sed -e "s/://g"
Loop through 'em, and find the one I want
can you believe it ? it was no grue ! it was,.,,,, the mouse!
the mouses left button was somehow not doing what a left button should do.
lns suggested something like that yesterday
anyway, i was already wondering why this mouse had a cross painted on the bottom
now I know.
So a new mouse, and an update-alternatives, and the grue is slain.
actually, the update-alternatives was not needed of course, i only tried that becasue of it looked like gnome was borked.
I've been trying to find answers for this since a week
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so for all ye out there: if you can't click, but you cna right-click and move the mouse, then the left click button might be faulty .... :-)
put that in the FAQ :-)
so, in what file goes the LDM_DIRCET_X thing again ?
it used to be /opt/ltsp.... but it's moved.
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ah,... you have to create that file.. that's why I couldn't find it... okay, got it! thankx !
ace_suares: its LDM_DIRECTX , and you should put lts.conf in: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
Hey Gadi!.. thanx...
hmmm..Gadi:my lts.conf is in root of tftp chroot
not that it matters..
http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-client.html doesn't list LDM_DIRECT_X
|09:52||* sbalneav shakes fist at web page|
don't look at that
use the actual edubuntu-handbook
that's from the edubuntu handbook !
it's actually installed on the box, start the yelp help browser
the docs on the box are better then on the web
|09:53||* ace_suares shakes head in sorrow|
the one on the web is out of date
I don't have access to the web site, so I can't update it :(
okay... who can I call to fix that :-)
Someone on the doco team, I'd expect.
yeah let me see If I can do that.
first time i hear of yelp 1
first time i hear of yelp !
I started yelp on the server, but.. no ltsp there ?
I'm on it, but I haven;t been able to find who's resposible for taking the xml and updating it.
If you start the help browser, on the left bar, there should be an entry for "Edubuntu handbook"
but i didn't installe edubuntu
You've just got ubuntu?
just kubuntu gutsy with ltsp-server-standalone...
then install edubuntu-docs
that'll get you the handbook
it's like 50 pages
|09:58||* ace_suares loves apt-mirror|
yep it's there
Hmmm, so if I'm root, and I want to do a gconftool-2 --config-source=blah to look at a users gconf, wonder what the syntax is
su <user> -c "gconftool-2 --config-source=blah"
okay it all works now.
anyway, without ldm_directx , even circuslinux is much too slow to play.
How do you view this issues ? I mean, encryption would be good, but if it slows down all graphical apps so much...
gconftool-2 --config-source "xml::/home/$USER/.gconf"
ace_suares: Yeah, but if you've got, say, a bank that's just got some character based Xterm app, and isn't doing graphics, then it'd be fine.
I guess the idea is: ship it in the safe, encrypted mode, and then if people decide they can be less safe, in exchange for speed, then they can, easily.
what repo is x11vnc in?
I meant, I prefer the safe mode, but for schools, many apps are graphic-heavy
so the usefullness of a classroom oof 30 tc's trying to do circulinux with encr. enabled is nearing zero
and kids start to sniff the network early nowadays :-)
hwat makes it slow, the time need for encryption, transport or decryption ?
I guess the decription is a bottle neck since most tc's are low on cpu
maybe someone invent some nice encryption where it's easy to decrypt but hard to encrypt ? mp4 :-)
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ace_suares: the encryption is not the problem - its the xproxying
thats what slows it up
greetings from thincanland
1096 bogomips of Geode power
do they speak thincanian?
our deluxe LX900 model is gonna kick ass
now, if ony AMD could be bothered with adjusting their price to the devaluated USD, that would really be nice
Gadi: pretty amazing how quickly Bart zeroed in on the probable cause
where you get your mobos?
we make our mobos
we design the whole thin client ourselves
here in Symbio land, our devs are best-of-breed
case, mobo, etc
they kick ass
kinda like a deluxe LX900
you two work topgether then?
Gadi is hesitatig between several hardware platofrms, all based on the LX800
much in the way we work together, cliebow_
the showstoper for everyne is how the -amd X driver hasn't kept up with X coe developments
which is what makes this project so awesome...
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it hurts everyone's market, so it was up to whoever had resouces to spare to chip in. Symbio did that and they assigned the best guy to the job. it worked wonders.
i sort oh heard that out of the corner ofg my ear
i am adding the letters i guess you are leaving out
we are this close to zeroing in on exactly what makes the -amd driver fail on recent X core.
the guy Gadi assigned to this is a real ace.
Gadi: our CEO was hoping that Bart was living on EU soil. we would have flown him in for a week to work with our BIOS coder.
it would have made it this much easier to see whether Jordan's assumptions about the BIOS being the cause were right or wrong
fortunately for all of us, Bart has been working with us for a long time now on a different project that also is on the BIOS level
so, his mind is already wrapped around BIOS
that's good to know
could he validate Jordan's claims against at least our LinuxBIOS target?
Q-FUNK: his plan right now is this:
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1. figure out which one of the sleep(1) calls he inserted made X -config work correctly
we cannot let our General Software target's sources for obvious reasons, but validating against the LinuxBIOS target is possible without steping on any licenser's toes.
2. Narrow down what is making X -configure freeze
3. Look at the Geode spec wrt this whole serial/DDC muxing thing you've got going to see if he can work around it in software
(or maybe you know)
|11:18||* Gadi doesn't think he'll need your target sources|
but, if you want him to test other BIOSes of yours, you can send him samples
or, we'll work off the one we have, and send you patches to test
the only thing I,personally, am not clear on is this whole muxing thing
and whether the thincan we have is in the final production state
for whatever that mux should be
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the PXE one is built against General Software and pretty much what the final product would be if we produce PXE units.
the Etherboot one is still seeing regular minor changes
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Q-FUNK: so is the mux set to serial rather than DDC in production?
Gadi: it should be set to DDC in production
how is it set on the one we have?
I wouldn't be entriely surprised if whoever built the BIOS image when I asked for your prototype PXE image to have copy-pasted from the debug image. :(
do you have a way we can tell and/or flip a bit to change it?
last time we tried fliping the bit on the fly, all hell broke loose. according to cs5536 secs, it should work, but it doesn't
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Q-FUNK: well, maybe you can just send me some info on the *how* and we'll deal with hell when we get there
Gadi: ok. I'll ask the guys how they did it last time and send you the info.
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also - at east some info as to how to tel how it is set
if it is set wrong and we cannot flip on the fly, I may have you send me a unit that is set the right way
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Gadi: do you remember the name of that app we were playing with at LTSP by the sea, that allowed you to see all the images comming into your network
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mistik1: see all the images?
mistik1:seems to me I brought that image thing up..durned if i can remember what it was
mistik1:it was featured in one of Marcel Gagne articles
I just cant remember the name of the thing
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aha.. that's it
i read that article once
|12:38||* johnny wonders what the lifespam of a linux magazine is atm|
seems relatively short
stuff changes too fast
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linux journal's been around for ages
more than 10 years
mistik1:doesnt seem functional in ubuntu..
dberkholz, 1994 or so
i mean the content
not the magazines themselves
shoulda specified that
cliebow2: maybe that's why I dont run ubuntu
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can anyone tell me what the purpose of the 'ltsp-client' package is for ubuntu gutsy? Shouldn't all that stuff be installed w/ 'ltsp-build-client' ?
pretty sure taht's what it's for
The reason I'm asking is that on my thin clients I don't have a 'pulseaudio' option in system ->preferences-> sound, and my sound doesnt' work...the ltsp-client package has pulseaudio-esound-compat package, but...i thought pulse was built in by default..?
it's for compat with esound
which makes pulse act like esound
ok.. well it also has package 'esound' OR 'nas' OR 'pulseaudio' in the package ltsp-client
maybe i just have to do some manual configuraiton?
i haven't gotten to needing sound
as we can't use speakers in our env
well the students use headphones...i should clarify that sound works on thin clients, but pulse is not an option..sorry
headphone-jack-sense doesn't work thou..i know how to fix that, but i just thought pulse was supposed to be included w/gutsy ltsp
i have no idea how that bit works together
i'll try to work on that at some point
anyone else have any insight?
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Does anyone know how would i setup a laptop that uses onboard Broadcom LAN to connect? Iam getting an error saying it cannot detect the network card.
ZeRoMaX, that's not a whole lot of information for someone to help
hmm what type of info is needed kinda new to linux
are you using the laptop with ltsp?
No I installed ltsp on a server
so you're using the laptop as an ltsp client?
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yes i using the laptop as a ltsp client, i have tested it with another laptop and it works. Its just that I am having problems with my HP NC6400
so you use networkboot ?
if that doesn't work, then it's not related to linux
well the error i get says it could not automatically detect the network card. Pci cards should be detected autoomatically. ISA cards cannot be detected, so they require the nic driver to be specified in a 'NIC=' parameter to be passed on the kernel command line, usually specificed in option-129, in the /etc/dhcpd.conf file.
ZeRoMaX, to use your laptop as a thin client you have to set the BIOS to boot via PXE (network boot)
have you done that?
yes i have done that
so does it boot to your server?
and that's where it doesn't find your nic?
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no it doesnt boot to the server i get a kernel panic - not syncing: attempted to kill init!
ZeRoMaX, let me clarify
you're booting your laptop via PXE, so it gets a DHCP address and downloads a kernel via TFTP from your LTSP server....right?
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instead of booting from the hard disk
ZeRoMaX, almost sounds like you have the kernel/initramfs down..but there is no support for the card at second dhcp request
yep i not using an hard drive to boot from
cliebow2 i agree
i wouldn't...usually i am wrong and ogra slaps me up side of the head for it
i've had the same thing happen with my asus eee pc though
it DLs a kernel and then can't find the nic
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sort of a paradox ;)
would i need to specify the nic in the dhcpd.conf file?
the kernel needs to have support for the specific nic on your laptop
it doens't work with b44?
do i need to update the kernel?
ZeRoMaX, you have linux running on the laptop hard drive??then you can see what driver is necessary...i have an inbitramfs opened up somewhere..at home i think ..and can see if the driver is there..
use a live cd..whatever
linux is running on a server, I am using a laptop to connect to it by ltsp
yes, but you need to see what driver works
so you can get it added to your kernel
the one that gets downloaded
ZeRoMaX, prob a good idea for you to install wireshark so you can monitor the packets on your network..see how far you really are in the boot process.
on your server
you think that is necessary?
sounds like the problem is obvious atm..
yeah..i know what you mean but ivr been kicked for not absolutely verifying where we are...
ZeRoMaX, Do you hve ANY os running on the laptop..so we could get a pci id of the card..
you can get a pci id from there ..lemme look
STart->controlpanel-->system-->pickyourbroadcomcard and rightcl;ick-->propperties->details
the device instance id of my broadcom is 14e4&DEV_170c
bookin for home..
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so if find out which driver to use how can add it to the kernel
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ZeRoMaX, sorry man... i've never dealt with kernel module installation for ltsp, not sure of the correct way to do it
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hey, sent you an email, I'd like to work on a "phone home" script for the iBooks
we might have had one stolen today, have to investigate Monday
from Conroy's room, 5C
laptop 5C that is
ohhh an g4 then
yea, one of the good ones
|16:23||* cliebow3 cliebow looks|
|16:24||* vagrantc tries ltsp on sparc64 again|
for some odd reason, i'm obsessed with getting ltsp working on obsolete architectures
i should at least focus on a less obsolete one, like powerpc
started with nubus mac..old aquanta...netvista..foor clients..toyed with sparc as well
Unimplemented SPARC system call 97
J45p3r:seems we could set up a "sacrificial" open ssh
apparently the dhcp client from klibc, ipconfig, does something that don't work on sparc
maybe the 64 bit piece??
hmmm... so to work around that, i need to hack around to use regular dhcp3-client in the initramfs
ive only gotten as far as prying the damn thing open..
I think I like the HTTP idea as SSH is more likely to be blocked, almost everyone has port 80 open
and that only with a lot of handholding
J45p3r:you can elaborate...http server on ibooks..or just http protocol..
hmmm... i reported this bug back in september (http://bugs.debian.org/444087) and have recieved no response ... i should probably just give up on sparc.
sucks when you get no respect..
but serial consoles make debugging so easy! :)
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just protocol, use something like lynx or wget to access a perl script... some how post the info to an HTTP server, maybe to a MySQL database?
J45p3r:sbalneav had a pinger piece in ltsp to check on server connectivity..bet hed help us understand it
J45:but posting to an http server ivr always used ssh or ftp..
i've found some examles searching, but none just right
but doing that would go over port 22 or w/e I'd like to keep the traffic on Port 80
does it make sense to transport on 80?i can seed/l..but upload?
heh..no wonder reggae sounds like a medley..two pandoras going at the same time
I think so, it would be like submitting a form on a website, just automatically
that was weird....
oh i see what you are up to..cgi
i think...posting wont necessarily be anything but momentary seems like..
my head hurts
yea, there could be a script on the mac that gathers the required info, outside IP, serial number, name, etc and posts that to a script on a web server, not sure how to pull it off but I know we can do it it could be setup to run in cron every hour or something
ill look around...think about it then..
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cool, we can brainstorm more on Monday
very good then....
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the perl module
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very good then....
johnny:was that for me???
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well, finally tested my new(est) ltspfs patches with GNOME, and it appears to basically work
though one time the floppy icon didn't show up
(but the other time it did)
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good morning all :D
ace_suares: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 8 hours, 1 minute, and 4 seconds ago: <sbalneav> I guess the idea is: ship it in the safe, encrypted mode, and then if people decide they can be less safe, in exchange for speed, then they can, easily.
hi all, who is updating the deubuntu hndbook that comes with edubuntu-docs ??
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hmmm... well, floppy icon is showing up consistantly now ...
ldm doesn't appear to show background images ...
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wazzup papa jammcq :D
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jammcq: in early ltsp you had a little pinger prog that checked for existence of server didnt you??
hmmm, not me
jammcq:somerthing used to show MArk..in the logs.. from the clients..
that's just syslogd -m
j45p3r and i were trying to fream something up in case our ibooks went awol that would "phone home" if theey h
left the building
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you know point of sale in php?
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