IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 19 October 2009 (all times are UTC)

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01:41	<art> hi, why is it when I assigned a static ip on my client /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf - it can't boot anymore, it just goes to the graphic Ubuntu, with the moving small bar in the middle
01:42	what could be the problem? but in virtualbox I can change the static ip easily
01:44	<Appiah> change the boot to show verbose messages
01:44	that why you can see where it stops
01:44	and it would help the troubleshooting
01:53	<art> Hi how do I do that?
01:53	thanks for replying
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02:04	<Appiah> change the grub file from splash to verbose
02:04	or just remove the splash
02:05	check the pxelinux.cfg
02:12	<johnny> quiet and splash
02:13	art, it's /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
02:13	remove both quiet and splash
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02:34	<art> Sorry just now, I was doing some field work. Great! Thanks!
02:35	johnny, the problem with my usb can't mount to thin client came back, it really says cannot allocate memory, but for some strange reason, I was able to fix this once on my Intel Atom machine
02:36	3 days ago, I just plugged it in, and it worked fine...
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02:48	<art> I got disconnected.
02:58	I can't copy/paste/ on my usb thumbdrive in my thin client, the File Operation is showing but it stops at 64kb data, and doesn't complete, after awhile it says Cannot Allocate Memory or Unknown File System, what could be the problem?
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03:26	<art> Hi why can't I copy/read from my usb drive?
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04:21	<nicku> when i reboot or shutdown a client i have an error with squashfs. It says unable to read metadata and directory. It prints about 20 lines of that and then stalls.
04:22	It is ubuntu 9.10 cluster environment ltsp5
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05:42	<avlis> Hi everyone! Anybody know if it's possible change the LDM theme to incorporate a button to change between tty's? Instead of crt+alt+F? .....
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06:42	<zeltron> Hi. I noticed something that doesn't work well in LTSP (Ubuntu and Debian)
06:43	It's not really a bug, but really annoying. I know where it comes from.
06:43	Where could it be send to developers (I don't know how to correct it)
06:44	Problem noticed : login with ldap on the clients takes more than 1 min when localapps are activated.
06:46	<elias_a> zeltron: Do you know the reason to this?
06:47	<zeltron> Yes. A part of X01-localapps that determines groups for the user.
06:48	<nicku> zeltron: have you had problems with client reboot and squashfs.
06:48	<zeltron> nicku : Some errors with squashfs when the client boots, but it's not blocking
06:48	<nicku> All my clients give bunch of squashfs errors when trying to reboot. If i use shutdown everything works ok.
06:52	<avlis> Hi everyone! Anybody know if it's possible change the LDM theme to incorporate a button to change between tty's? Instead of crt+alt+F? .....
06:53	or something similar...
06:55	<zeltron> elias_a: a while command makes a list of groups the users should belong to, and write them in a file.
06:55	elias_a : everytime it finds a group, it looks in the file if it already exists in the file.
06:56	elias_a : that's what takes a very long time in a ldap with hundreds of entries
07:17	<elias_a> zeltron: OK. Nasty phenomenon :(
07:18	zeltron: Let's wait for a while for the correct place to be found.
07:18	This one is a bit tricky as it does not have to do with a single package - or does it?
07:20	<zeltron> elias_a : I don't know... As I said before... I know where it comes from, but I don't know how to solve the problem
07:25	elias_a : If you're looking for the file : that's /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X01-localapps
07:25	The problem is on the first "while" occurence
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08:00	<art> Hi everyone, specially to johnny, I'm sorry, but I think I'm going to give up on LTSP for the moment, there are just enough problems I couldn't handle myself, I'm just a one-man IT-network-engineer in our office, 1st, dvd burning is not supported yet, 2nd, sound is very static on Intel Atom, 3rd, I can't use a simple usb drive, 4th, my clients always want to watch movies I present in the file server, but sometimes it's very slow for them, and now everybody's hom
08:00	e I'm fixing these problems alone in the office... damn. No offense to anyone.
08:01	<Gadi> art: good morning
08:01	sounds like ur having a rough day
08:01	:)
08:02	you can burn dvd's by running a dvd burner as a local app
08:02	and having the user in the appropriate group
08:02	the intel sound issue is strange - don't have that on Intel Atoms Ive used
08:03	if you want to watch movies, you best run your movie watching software locally, too
08:03	LTSP is not exactly a home theater technology ;)
08:04	<art> Good morning Gadi, Yeah, but I'm used to it, so I don't whine and complain, Linux taught me to be patient. =)
08:04	<Gadi> hehe
08:05	if ur reaching out for help, I am happy to assist. Of course, don't use a hammer when you need a screwdriver to get the job done
08:05	:)
08:06	<art> Really? Well, the help I got here in this channel is tremendous, I'm so glad, I was able to deploy 5 Intel Atoms!
08:06	Newbie, 4 months Ubuntu user.
08:06	The biggest challenge I have is I can't read/copy from my usb drives
08:07	<Gadi> do they appear at all?
08:07	<art> Movies are a bit choppy, but I haven't tried to run them locally yet coz I can't solve my usb problem
08:08	<Gadi> ok, lets take first things first
08:08	<art> Yes they do appear, but it says Cannot Allocate Memory when I use it
08:08	<Gadi> where does it give you that error?
08:08	in a gui dialog box?
08:08	or in a log somewhere
08:08	<art> Yes in a GUI, when I copy or read or write to it
08:09	I've done my homework following guides in help.ubuntu
08:09	<Gadi> are you on Ubuntu/Gnome?
08:09	<art> Yes my Ubuntu Gnome is 9.04
08:09	<Gadi> ah, ok
08:09	so, you see the contents, but it is giving the error when you read from the drive
08:10	<art> Yes
08:10	Also, I was able to run this already successfully but only one time, now it came back!
08:11	I've updated my chroot environment
08:11	I'm a member of fuse
08:11	<Gadi> ok, so that sounds like you are hitting the limit of either memory or processes on the server
08:11	your permissions and groups are 100% correct
08:12	since you can see the files, all of the plumbing is in place
08:12	<ogra> what did you "update" in your chroot ?
08:12	<Gadi> the error is due to a resource limit that you must be hitting
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08:13	<art> Ok, what is that resource limit? I don't have quotas on
08:13	ogra, I updated apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
08:13	<ogra> hmm
08:14	<kiaas> So, I'm using an ubuntu LTSP server, and I'm wondering if there's any way for me to allow all ~25 boxes that will be hooked up to it to use the same account, and firefox and other programs to work on more than 1 box. Right now, firefox is complaining that it is already running and won't run.
08:14	<ogra> kiaas, thats a bad idea
08:14	<cliebow> you'll hace a world of doo doo without independent accounts
08:14	<kiaas> ogra: 35-1000+ accounts is problematic.
08:15	<ogra> the neither apps not desktop are not designed for being used simultaneously by the same logged in account
08:15	*neither the
08:15	<alkisg> kiaas: you may at least create 25 accounts, at least one per box
08:15	<ogra> s/not/nor/
08:15	right, create one account per client
08:15	<Gadi> art: give me 5 mins - phone call
08:16	<kiaas> I did infact make 25 accounts. Found students like logging in to one account anyways, because that's what they do on the windows systems. :/
08:16	<cliebow> Gadi: my turn next ..got a signup sheet for one silly question?
08:16	<alkisg> kiaas: you may enable automatic logins
08:16	<art> Gadi, thanks for the help, but it's actually ok, if this can't be solved, I appreciate your concern, just like all the users here
08:16	<alkisg> So that each clients logs on automatically with a different account
08:17	<kiaas> alkisg: how?
08:17	<alkisg> LDM_AUTOLOGIN, LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD
08:17	See the docs
08:17	!docs
08:17	<ltspbot> alkisg: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
08:17	<kiaas> brb on a box with a GUI so I can more easily view that
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08:20	<kiaas2> !docs
08:20	<ltspbot> kiaas2: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
08:34	<Gadi> art: hey, sorry - man, you sound defeated already
08:35	:)
08:35	<art> Hell no! Hehe, but barely. Hey Gadi, is it worth it to stay with LTSP? Can I really burn dvd when I run it locally? Will this usb ever work? Will there be an improvement of videos when I run mplayer locally?
08:35	<Gadi> yes to all
08:36	when you are new at it, it is the toughest
08:36	<art> Haha, nice to hear for an expert like you! :)
08:36	<Gadi> especially since we don't explain ourselves as well as we should
08:36	:)
08:36	but, I always find it helps to have context
08:36	<art> I see...
08:36	When I read off a file from my usb, it says unknown file system
08:37	<Gadi> otherwise, it becomes an exercise like in Windows, where you do things and you never know why it might work or not
08:37	:)
08:37	ok
08:37	lets see
08:37	how much memory does the server have?
08:37	<art> Ok, but thanks for the effort, but I'm stuck in the office drinking beer for this rough day!
08:37	To ease the pain...
08:37	<Gadi> beer makes everything a good day
08:37	:)
08:38	<art> Haha, cheers to that! Just 1 bottle though, 3 makes me physically kick things up a bit
08:38	<Gadi> so, what's the server like?
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08:38	<Gadi> how much memory?
08:38	<art> I got 4 gb ram
08:38	<Gadi> sounds like plenty
08:38	:)
08:39	<art> e7400 c2d
08:39	raid1 disks, and 1 terrabyte for home
08:39	<Gadi> 64-bit?
08:39	<art> no graphics card, yes 64 bit
08:39	<bulletxt> hi, I have a simple question. After I succesfully install an ltsp server, do I have to do something special in the clients? Do they require an os to be installed?
08:40	<art> updated
08:40	<Gadi> art: the chroot is i386, tho, right?
08:40	<kiaas2> Nothing simple for autologins, then.. each machine has to be specified for which account? Be nice if it'd just log in one system, and allow a "log next system with next on the list" :/
08:40	<art> no, the chroot is amd64, because I'm using intel atom dual core?
08:40	right?
08:40	<Gadi> aha!
08:40	<kiaas2> Not all atoms are 64bit.
08:40	<art> really? but the seller says it is
08:40	<Gadi> I believe that there is an issue with ltspfs and 64-bit chrrots
08:40	*chroots
08:41	<kiaas2> Start one is 32bit locally, and type cat /proc/cpu
08:41	<Gadi> do you mind if we try making a 32-bit chroot?
08:41	<art> Yes, ok, I'll try it now!
08:41	<Gadi> cool
08:41	you know how to make one, right?
08:42	<art> I already have for backups and learning purposes!
08:42	<Gadi> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch=i386
08:42	<art> yes tnx
08:42	I'll just edit my dhcpd.conf
08:42	<Gadi> ok, cool. Once you have the 32-bit chroot going, I think we'll have a lot smoother sailing
08:43	<art> Ok, rebooting now
08:44	ubuntu graphics
08:44	ldm
08:44	<Gadi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltspfsd/+bug/227870
08:44	art: ^^^
08:44	seems you are not alone
08:44	:)
08:44	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/415952
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08:44	<Gadi> there's another
08:45	* Gadi pokes sbalneav, since he is prolly the only one I know who can fix the bug... ;)
08:45	<art> Oh wow! Gadi it WORKED!
08:45	<kiaas2> Where exactly is ltsp.conf?
08:46	<art> Wow! I'm so amazed!
08:46	<Gadi> art: the power of positive thinking
08:46	:)
08:46	<art> I'm speechless
08:46	<Gadi> either that or the beer
08:46	<art> haha
08:47	I'm so thankful of your help!
08:47	You know why?
08:47	<Gadi> kiaas2: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf (doesn't exist by default, on Ubuntu - must be created - see docs for format)
08:47	<kiaas2> What fun.
08:47	<Gadi> why?
08:47	kiaas2: the simplest form is:
08:47	[default]
08:47	PARAM=Value
08:47	...
08:48	<art> I'll buy you a beer if you're here!
08:48	<Gadi> where [default] section applies to all clients
08:48	<art> So Gadi, I'll use i386 from now on?
08:49	<Gadi> art: if you want to try localapps, simply chroot into your i386 chroot and install mplayer, dvd burner, etc
08:49	yeah, use i386
08:49	<art> the dvd burner is gnome-baker right?
08:49	<Gadi> you won't miss the extra 32 bits much ;)
08:49	there are several
08:49	you can use gnomebaker
08:49	but, it may make your chroot big
08:49	<art> Ok, yeah, I've done my homework, it's in help.ubuntu right?
08:50	<Gadi> because it will rely on lots of gnome stuff
08:50	<art> it's okay
08:50	<Gadi> not that a big chroot is bad
08:50	just big
08:50	:)
08:50	just make sure that it doesnt pull in all of gnome
08:50	<art> Hey can you teach me how to fish? How did you know it was already reported as a bug in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/415952
08:50	<ogra> chroots != wolves ?
08:51	<Gadi> you may want to use apt-get install --no-install-recommends
08:51	or whatever the flag is
08:51	<Appiah> Anyone letting the users on the thin clients to watch mms streams?
08:51	I'm trying to figure out the best way to support this...
08:51	<Gadi> art: I googled: ltspfs bug 64 bit
08:51	<elias_a> Appiah: Why not?
08:51	<Gadi> :)
08:51	<Appiah> elias_a: pardon?
08:51	<elias_a> Appiah: CPU load being the problem?
08:52	<Appiah> I mean ,which method? Use some player with mozilla plugin?
08:52	<elias_a> Appiah: OK - I see...
08:52	<Appiah> install another player
08:52	specific type in browser and let it open up externally
08:53	and so on
08:54	the totem plugin (?!) that's default seams to have big issues
08:55	<kiaas2> do I need to rebuild the chroot after editing ltsp.conf or something? I'm fairly new to this, and kind of tired.
08:56	<Gadi> kiaas2: nope
08:56	<kiaas2> so then, now to figure out which machine I just set to auto login and reboot i
08:56	t
08:56	<art> Never thought ltspfs, Gadi can I selfishly take your time once more? How come when I use l a static dhcp on my thin client, it can't find it?
08:56	<Gadi> thats why lts.conf (and it is "lts.conf" not ltsp.conf) is in the tftpboot directory - it gets downloaded on boot
08:56	<nicku> when i reboot or shutdown a client i have an error with squashfs. It says unable to read metadata and directory. It prints about 20 lines of that and then stalls.
08:56	It is ubuntu 9.10 cluster environment ltsp5
08:57	<Gadi> art: how do you mean?
08:57	<art> it just shows the ubuntu with the middle bar running and then Kernel panic not syncing
08:57	<kiaas2> thanks for pointing out my repeated mis-remembrance of the file name.
08:58	<Gadi> art: ah, ok here's the deal:
08:58	<Appiah> art: did you change to verbose instead of quiet splash?
08:58	<art> Yeah, I removed quiet splash, once again, thanks a lot for the help, here it is: host ws1 {hardware ethernet 00:1C:C0:E2:0E:70 fixed-address 192.168.0.111; }
08:58	<Gadi> can you pastebot your dhcpd.conf file
08:59	!patebot
08:59	<ltspbot> Gadi: Error: "patebot" is not a valid command.
08:59	<Gadi> !pastebot
08:59	<ltspbot> Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
08:59	<Gadi> kiaas2: hehe - I only point it out, because only one will work ;)
08:59	<ltsppbot> "art" pasted "this file doesn't work!" (72 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/585
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09:01	<art> Gadi, this file doesn't work, but if I uncomment the first config of option root-... it works, but in giving static to clients doesn't!
09:02	<kiaas2> it didn't auto-login :/
09:02	<art> Ok, clearer, when I don't set static IP's the client boots up, but if I set static IP's, it doesn't...
09:03	<Gadi> hmm... I always do groups outside the subnet declarations
09:03	maybe that's the problem?
09:03	<art> Ok I'll try...
09:03	<Gadi> try closing the subnet declaration, before creating the group decls
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09:03	<Gadi> also, you may need to give the groups separate names
09:04	<art> Oh Gadi, I'm so sorry for my ignorance! Because you've already solved my amd64, I don't need to use it right?
09:04	<Gadi> try commenting out the group you don't use
09:04	right
09:04	you can get rid of the amd64
09:04	<art> Ok, I'll just remove amd64
09:04	For a while... Thanks.
09:05	Like group1 and group2?
09:05	<Gadi> I think like: group group1 { }
09:05	but, for simplicity, why not just use one group?
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09:06	<Gadi> with multiple hosts
09:07	<art> Yeah, thanks.
09:07	<kiaas2> I specified the MAC address, and it didn't auto-login. then I specified the IP, and it didn't auto-login.
09:08	<alkisg> kiaas2: can you upload your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf to pastebot?
09:08	!pastebot
09:08	<ltspbot> alkisg: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
09:08	<Gadi> kiaas2: try specifying SCREEN_07 = shell - if that gives you an ldm screen and not a shell, then your conf file is not being read
09:09	<art> Gadi, I removed everything and just used one group, with 2 static IP's, it still won't find, I already have a router, with IP filtering to deny ports 67-68 to 192.168.0.110 - 120
09:10	<kiaas2> I set it back to the MAC address. and now, uploading..with the screen thing added at the end.
09:10	<art> Thanks.
09:10	<ltsppbot> "kiaas2" pasted "the config" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/586
09:11	<art> In virtualbox, it works, and can easily find it, but in the real physical box, it won't!
09:11	<Gadi> art: take out "deny unknown-clients
09:11	<art> OK
09:11	<alkisg> kiaas2: don't put spaces around the =
09:11	(I'm not sure if it matters, but better be on the safe side...)
09:11	<Gadi> thats not it
09:11	spaces are fine
09:11	<alkisg> OK
09:12	<Gadi> but you cannot have and empty [default]
09:12	section
09:12	you need at least one parameter
09:12	even if it is bogus
09:12	add: kiaas2 = "the coolest guy I know"
09:12	under [default]
09:13	(or take out the [default] section and just have the specific one, I think works, too)
09:13	but, is less of an ego boost
09:16	<kiaas2> the screen thing worked, but auto-login didn't.
09:18	<art> It still won't show ldm, is it because of my router?
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09:19	<Gadi> kiaas2: great! now take out the SCREEN thing
09:20	that was just to check that the file was being read
09:21	<kiaas2> I did remove it, and auto-login failed. but with screen on, I see it mentions a syntax error on line 6.
09:25	<art> Gadi, just one more thing, how come the sound in my Intel Atoms, seems like there's a wind?
09:26	Sorry for hogging your time, thanks a lot for the usb thing man!
09:26	<Gadi> art: open a terminal window after you login from one of the atoms, and run: ltsp-localapps xterm
09:27	you will get an xterm window that is actually running on the client
09:27	from there, run: alsamixer
09:27	<art> Ok
09:27	<Gadi> and you can play with volume levels
09:27	see if the default volumes are too high
09:29	<art> Ok I'll try it, it seems it's the sound of the processor?
09:30	rebooting...
09:30	<ogra> kiaas, you dont have literally a line with "..." in your lts.conf, do you ?
09:31	<art> it really finds it quickly without that static ip thing
09:31	ldm
09:32	Gadi, it won't adjust, it sounds like there's falling rain
09:34	<cliebow> Gadi: got time for a quick look at this dhcprequest prog?
09:35	<kiaas2> Yes, yes I did. Not supposed to?
09:35	<Gadi> sure - but I am on the phone - give me a few mins
09:35	<cliebow> k
09:35	<ogra> kiaas, nope, remove that line :)
09:38	<kiaas2> Still doesn't auto login, but hitting ctrl+alt+F1 now doesn't show a syntax error. it does however mention ERROR: Ioctl/1.1a Bad File Descriptor
09:39	<ogra> thats normal, ignore it
09:39	<kiaas2> why is it so adamantly refusing to auto-login? :/
09:41	<alkisg> kiaas2: do you actually have a user with that password? If you try from ldm, can you login?
09:42	<kiaas2> Yes. I have accounts student-student24, all with the same password. and I can login from LDM with it.
09:42	<ogra> dont you need LDM_AUTOLOGIN=True as well ?
09:43	<kiaas2> the ubuntu page I'm looking at doesn't mention it, but maybe.
09:44	<alkisg> (04:16:43 μμ) alkisg: LDM_AUTOLOGIN, LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD
09:44	<ogra> right, i thought i remembered something like that
09:47	<bulletxt> I'm not understanding something, when my client boots via network lan, the server sends him the kernel and the rest. where does the client save that stuff? in ram? hd ?
09:48	<alkisg> bulletxt: it doesn't load the whole hard disk in the RAM. It's like having a remote hard disk; it only reads the parts it needs, when it needs them.
09:48	<kiaas2> It sort of auto-loginned. Except it's sitting at a black screen. :/
09:48	<bulletxt> alkisg: ok, and puts it in clients ram? does this mean the client pc doesn't need an hard disk? thanks
09:48	<alkisg> bulletxt: so if you have a hard disk image of 1 Gb, you don't actually need 1 Gb on the client
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09:49	<alkisg> bulletxt: yes, the client pc doesn't need a hard disk. See the docs for the whole theory:
09:49	!docs
09:49	<ltspbot> alkisg: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
09:49	<kiaas2> No HD is necessary, only a bit of RAM, CPU, and networking are necessary.(graphics card if you want to see...)
09:49	try2free has left #ltsp
09:49	<bulletxt> ok thanks a lot
09:51	by default, do process get executed on the server or client side?
09:51	<kiaas2> server
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09:53	<bulletxt> what does this mean: to connect to ltsp from Windows
09:54	http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WinIntegration#LTSP_Windows_Integration
09:54	<art> Hey Gadi, do you think this "noise" in my intel atom will go away? I'm already installing mplayer locally, and see if there's improvement in my videos. Finally, about BACKING UP: Just do this right? tar cvpzf i386.tgz /opt/ltsp/i386/ and to RESTORE: tar xvpjf i386.tar.gz -C /opt/ltsp/i386/ -- right?
09:55	I don't want to lose this WORKING i386!
09:56	Oh I mean tar xvpf i386.tgz -C /opt/ltsp/i386/
09:57	Is this the right way to backup an image architecture?
09:57	<bulletxt> alkisg: i have the ltsp server connected to a router, the same one my computer im typing on is connected. is it enough to reboot this computer with boot lan to connect to the ltsp server? thanks
09:58	<art> Hi bulletxt, yes, just go to your bios and change to boot from network card, I'm using a diskless Intel Atom
09:59	<bulletxt> thanks , ill try it now
09:59	<alkisg> bulletxt: does the router also have a dhcp server?
09:59	<bulletxt> yea the router is assigning the ip's to clients
09:59	<kiaas2> if I change dhcpd.conf for the LTSP servers, do I need to do anything beyond perhaps reboot?
09:59	<alkisg> bulletxt: the usual setup is to have the ltsp server assign ip leases
09:59	<art> alkisg: I have a problem, when I setup static DHCP, my client gets stuck at the Ubuntu w/ the middle bar rolling thing, what do you think is my problem? Thanks.
09:59	<alkisg> (to the ltsp clients)
09:59	brb...
10:00	<Gadi> art: backing up with tar should be fine (though do it as root or with sudo)
10:00	kiaas2: sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
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10:01	<art> Yes, thank you, if I restore it back, I'll just change the dhcpd.conf file to point to the directory right? No more additional commands?
10:01	Gadi thanks!
10:01	<Gadi> art: np, oh and with sound, so try in your lts.conf, adding the param: VOLUME=50
10:02	<kiaas2> I edited the dhcpd.conf file to assign up to 192.168.0.43, yet... dhcpd self-test failed. Please fix the config file. drop_privileges: could not set group id: Operation not permitted
10:02	<Gadi> there are a bunch of volume type settings, but the default for your stations may be too high
10:02	I suggested playing with a local alsamixer to just try and see if one of the channels needs to be reduced
10:02	you may be getting feedback
10:02	<kiaas2> and I wasn't thinking, apparently, because I didn't backup the file.
10:02	<Gadi> (for example from the mic)
10:05	<ltsppbot> "cliebow" pasted "#!/usr/bin/perl # Simple DHCP" (38 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/587
10:05	<alkisg> art: static dhcp? what do you mean?
10:05	<art> I see, so I will set mic volume to 0? In the mean time, I've removed all volume config, to find the problem, and try it one by one, thanks for another great idea, I hope I can fix this one
10:05	<kiaas2> Oh wait, somehow I missed the sudo it seems.
10:05	<cliebow> GAdi:if you could just take a peek and see what i need to do to get output so i know the thing is actually receiving something
10:06	<alkisg> bulletxt: the normal setup is to have an ltsp server with 2 NICs. One of them gets connected to a "seperated" switch on which the ltsp clients get connected. So in this switch the ltsp server is also the dhcp server.
10:06	<cliebow> the other question is..do i need somehow to reset/kill the socket?
10:06	<art> alkisg and Gadi: thanks, when I setup an static dhcp on my client it gets stuck on that Ubuntu splash screen, but when there's not host ip assigned to MAC, it's just fine
10:07	<alkisg> art, what do you mean by "static dhcp"? what exactly are you doing?
10:07	<art> oh sorry, static ip
10:07	<bulletxt> alkisg: at the moment I don't have 2 nics, is there something I can do?
10:07	<alkisg> bulletxt: distro/version?
10:07	<art> in the dhcpd.conf, where you point the mac to a specific ip - when I do this it won't boot
10:07	<bulletxt> alkisg: ubuntu 9.04 32bit
10:08	<alkisg> bulletxt: you can either stop the dhcp server in your router, and setup the dhcp server in the ltsp server to use the 1st nic, or
10:09	bulletxt: or you can use dnsmasq as a proxydhcp (I use it in all of my schools): https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
10:09	<bulletxt> thanks ill check it out
10:09	<alkisg> art: can you upload your dhcpd.conf ?
10:09	<art> Gadi: if I restore my chroot like this: tar xvpf i386.tgz -C /opt/ltsp/i386/ and set my dhcpd.conf to point to it, it will boot fine right?
10:09	Ok,
10:11	<Gadi> art: you need to not only replace the chroot to restore, but also to run sudo ltsp-update-image --arch i386
10:11	<ltsppbot> "art" pasted "dynamic ip works, but static won't boot" (46 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/588
10:11	<Gadi> the chroot is like a "build" directory in Ubuntu
10:11	<art> I see...
10:11	<Gadi> the real thing that the client uses is: /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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10:12	<art> I'm so afraid of losing my i386 - coworkers get angry! hehehe
10:13	<bulletxt> alkisg: if instead I have 2 nics, will ltsp configure itself automatically?
10:13	<Gadi> art: in terms of your dhcpd.conf, do remember to restart the server when you make changes
10:13	<art> So it's restore from tar, update the image, change dhcpd.conf. Thank you! I'll try that!
10:13	<cliebow> art:set your old one aside?
10:13	<art> Ok
10:13	<Gadi> cliebow: what are we looking for in the script?
10:13	<alkisg> bulletxt: you'll also need a switch. But yes, on new installations with 2 nics ltsp configures itself automatically.
10:14	<art> art:set your old one aside? -- what do you mean?
10:14	<bulletxt> alkisg: yea with a switch and 2 nics, so ltsp will configure automatically. then i just start the client being sure the bios (of the client) boots with lan.... thanks!
10:14	<cliebow> evidence of successful contact with dhcp server?
10:14	or not..that i can test and email if dhcp is doa
10:15	<Gadi> ah, right
10:16	cliebow: what happens when you run the script and pass it the dhcp server and dhcp client ips?
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10:17	<alkisg> cliebow: what don't you use ipconfig to test dhcp?
10:17	(or dhclient.... both support a "test-only" mode)
10:19	<Gadi> alkisg: where were you last week? :) what's the dhclient test-mode flag?
10:19	<alkisg> Erm, for ipconfig it's ipconfig -n
10:19	For dhclient, /me looks...
10:20	<Gadi> ah, seems to be the same
10:21	cliebow: try: dhclient -q -n -s <serverIP> 2>/dev/null && echo "hooray!"
10:21	<art> Hey Gadi, I'll go home now. Thank you for the usb, my only problem now is the static ip, speed of the videos, dvd burning, and the rain sound -- do you think I can do it on my own? Do you have advice how to do my homework? Thanks appreciate it mate.
10:21	<Gadi> well, dvd burning and local movies are just local apps things
10:21	I think we have some good docs, but if not, pop back in here
10:22	you can launch localapps either with a custome launcher and "ltsp-localapps <program>"
10:22	OR if you set LOCAL_APPS_MENU = True, the local apps will run in the gnome menu
10:22	<cliebow> bash ! event not found
10:23	<Gadi> cliebow: take out the "!" at the end of hooray
10:23	:)
10:23	don't get bash excited
10:23	<cliebow> yeah..working on it!
10:23	dont want you to think i fell asleep
10:23	<Gadi> art: the sound thing is probably a volume setting too high
10:23	<alkisg> Gadi: dhclient -n changes the ip for me :) So maybe cliebow should try this one instead: sudo /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
10:24	<art> Ok, I'll try the volume as well, Gadi: if LOCAL_APPS_MENU is On, and I launch it from the Gnome menu, I don't need the ltsp-localapps (program) command right?
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10:24	<Gadi> right - it should put/substitute entries in the gnome menu
10:25	but, use the command to help troubleshoot or to create a custome launcher
10:25	<cliebow> i got hooray..now to turn the server off..
10:25	<Gadi> *custome
10:25	*custom
10:25	must be the season...
10:25	:P
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10:27	<art> Also, when you told me ltsp-localapps xterm, alsamixer, I adjusted the volume, the sound did not change, so it is possible it's not a volume issue? Or is it "white noise"? Is there such a thing in Intel Atoms?
10:28	<Gadi> do you get it only when playing sounds?
10:28	<kiaas2> so, if I wanted to clone my LTSP server onto slightly different hardware(or change some of the hardware on the current one), how would I setup the interfaces?
10:28	<art> No
10:28	<Gadi> or even when no sounds are played
10:28	<art> yes
10:28	when ldm starts, it starts
10:28	<Gadi> do you have built in mic/speaker?
10:28	<art> yes I guess so, it's a brand new pc
10:29	and new model
10:29	<Gadi> in alsamixer, try muting the microphone
10:29	see if you are getting feedback
10:29	(tab to Capture, and then use space bar to mute the channel)
10:29	<art> I've tried muted all the things there, but there's only pcm playback, no mic
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10:29	<kiaas2> PCM caused most of my audio issues.
10:30	But that was on a normal desktop.
10:30	<CAN-o-SPAM> Hi #LTSP
10:34	<art> Gadi thanks for the usb Google searching for me, I think I'll try to fix this some other time, you restored my faith back to LTSP for 1 more week... :) really appreciate it mate... talk to you soon...
10:36	fotanus has joined #ltsp
10:38	<art> I don't know where I'd be without #ltsp - you guys rock! See you...
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10:39	<kiaas2> I'd be plastering "USE THIS TO LOGIN" on every LTSP booted system.
10:47	<bulletxt> alkisg: if I use dnsmasq as you suggested before (ltsp with 1 nic and no switch, server and clients are connected to same switch), how can the clients know it must get the ip from the ltsp server? thanks
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10:57	<cliebow> Gadi:in answer to last..when i run the script once all i see is "Starting as per line 9..it then just exits.i dont know how to spit out some evidence it worked. i havnt been able to pick out the packets with wireshark..
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10:59	<cliebow> Balls..
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11:09	<knipwim> johnny: re
11:12	<johnny> where you been man?
11:15	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
11:16	<knipwim> busy with my new job
11:17	still am, but focusing on other parts of reality again
11:22	<Gadi> cliebow: did the dhclient way work?
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11:24	<alkisg> bulletxt: > how can the clients know it must get the ip from the ltsp server? ==> dnsmasq tells the client to use the ltsp server as the tftp server.
11:24	<cliebow> no..just hangs..
11:25	Gadi:no worries...
11:25	<bulletxt> alkisg: im following the link you gave me before, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP , in the scenario I explained (clients and ltsp server connected to same router), is folloing that guide enough? do I have to edit the/etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf file?
11:25	<alkisg> bulletxt: yes, you need to put the server ip in one line in that file
11:26	bulletxt: in this line: dhcp-range=10.160.31.10,proxy
11:27	<bulletxt> alkisg: if the router assigns ip's of 192.168.1/0-255, should I put: dhcp-range=192.168.1.80,proxy and then set the ltsp server to have that ip?
11:28	<alkisg> bulletxt: the ltsp server should be outside of the pool
11:29	so the router should assign e.g. 192.168.1.20 - 254, and the server be <.20
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11:30	<bulletxt> alkisg: I'm sorry, do you mean I have to dhcp-range=192.168.1.80,proxy is incorrect if that's the ip of the ltsp server?
11:30	<alkisg> bulletxt: that line is correct
11:30	<bulletxt> ok
11:30	<alkisg> I'm saying that the router may have a problem
11:31	I.e. the router range shouldn't be 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254, it should be smaller
11:31	E.g. it could be 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.254
11:31	<bulletxt> yea
11:31	well for what I can see it goes from 1 to 100
11:32	<alkisg> OK, so the server shouldn't be in .80 then
11:32	It should be outside of the range
11:32	So better put the server to .254...
11:32	<bulletxt> alkisg: the server in dhcp is .21 , should I set it to 254?
11:32	<alkisg> if the range is .1 to .100, then the server shouldn't be .21
11:33	Because the router may give .21 to another client
11:33	So you would have an ip conflict
11:33	<bulletxt> yea
11:33	ok
11:33	how do I start the ltsp service?
11:33	I cant find it in /etc/init.d/
11:33	<alkisg> It's already started
11:34	<bulletxt> whats the name of the proces
11:34	<alkisg> It starts from inetd
11:34	Tftp and nbd servers. You can see them in /etc/inetd.conf
11:34	<bulletxt> do I have to run this? sudo ltsp-build-client
11:35	<alkisg> What do you have there? ls -lha /opt/ltsp/*/
11:35	<bulletxt> after I installed ubuntu with ltsp server, at the end it asked for a second nic but I didnt have it, so it said to run again a command but I dont rember it
11:35	let me see
11:36	I have a file, i386.img
11:36	<alkisg> You don't have /opt/ltsp/i386/ ?
11:36	The whole client virtual disk should be there...
11:37	<bulletxt> yes
11:37	i have that folder and its full of files and folder
11:37	actually, the whole os
11:37	bin ecc
11:37	<alkisg> Right
11:37	So everything is OK. Did you install dnsmasq?
11:37	<bulletxt> yes I installed it
11:38	<alkisg> Did you change the dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf file, and restarted dnsmasq?
11:38	<bulletxt> exaclty as said in the wiki, so i removed the dhcp server
11:38	<alkisg> OK, then go ahead and try to boot a client...
11:38	<bulletxt> and I copied/pasted the conf file of dnsmask as said in wiki
11:38	ok
11:39	ok i have to reboot this pc sadly
11:39	brb
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11:52	<ball> @DLWS on twitter told me I had to come here ;-)
11:52	oops, it was @LinuxLTSP, not @DLWS
11:53	maginot has joined #ltsp
11:54	<cliebow> you do have to come here 8~)
11:56	<CAN-o-SPAM> glad to see people pay attention to @LinuxLTSP Tweets :)
12:01	shogunx has joined #ltsp
12:03	* ball grins
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12:06	<bulletxt> alkisg: ok, the os boots! however, I can't login, is this normal?
12:06	<alkisg> bulletxt: it's because you changed the server ip after the installation
12:06	do: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
12:06	<bulletxt> but the os boots
12:06	ok
12:06	ill try that
12:07	<alkisg> Then reboot the client
12:08	* ball is torn between Sun Ray and LTSP. Sun Ray is proprietary, which puts me off, but used with Solaris it should make for a nice, polished product that we can buy support for.
12:09	<bulletxt> alkisg: is it enough to reboot system? or those commands are needed?
12:09	<alkisg> bulletxt: those commands are needed, and then rebooting the client is needed
12:09	No server reboot necessary
12:09	<bulletxt> ok great, trying now
12:11	what do those commands do
12:11	<alkisg> bulletxt: read the docs :)
12:11	!docs
12:11	<ltspbot> alkisg: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
12:11	<bulletxt> alkisg: and most importantly, d
12:11	why does the client boot, but not login?
12:11	ok, ill rad
12:11	*read
12:11	<alkisg> Because the ssh keys are not considered valid
12:11	<ball> Supposedly LTSP works with Ubuntu though, so that might help.
12:12	<bulletxt> alkisg: ok, im at 24% of that command... hopefully it will work then :)
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12:17	<bulletxt> alkisg: thanks man... its all working :) tomorrow I'll need help to make the process work on the client instead of the server :)
12:17	<alkisg> Way to go! :)
12:18	<bulletxt> cya and thanks again :) ltsp is great
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12:18	<CAN-o-SPAM> ball: you can get professional support for LTSP
12:30	<vagrantc> heh.
12:30	it appears, out of all the architectures in debian that ltsp is built for, hurd-i386 and kfreebsd-i386 are more on the ball than most:
12:30	ltsp-client-core \| 5.1.90-1 \| unstable \| alpha, armel, hppa, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc
12:30	ltsp-client-core \| 5.1.90-2 \| unstable \| amd64, hurd-i386, i386, kfreebsd-i386
12:30	<johnny> should we rename to unix terminal server then? :)
12:31	<vagrantc> hurd isn't unix
12:31	*tsp
12:31	<johnny> sure.. too mixed up with windows terminal services tho.
12:32	<vagrantc> fossstp
12:32	oops
12:32	fosstsp
12:32	i'll start working on a haiku port
12:34	* Lns wants a BeOS port too
12:35	<Lns> and C=64 pls..kthx
12:35	;)
12:40	<ball> CAN-o-SPAM: Sorry, was afk because of a visitor.
12:46	Lns: Did the C=128 ship with gsx?
12:49	kiaas has quit IRC
12:56	<Lns> ball: The C=128 shipped with C=128 Basic. =p
12:58	<ball> Lns: ...BASIC, and CP/M-80
12:58	<Lns> oh, mine didn't come with that I don't think :/
13:01	though it'd be awesome to try out Contiki =) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiki
13:02	I don't know what it is about rainy weather but I always get nostalgic to old tech when it comes around
13:06	<cliebow> yeah osx 7.6.1 8~)
13:11	<ball> Was there an OS X 7.6.1?!
13:11	<Lns> hehe
13:11	<ball> Surely that was System 7
13:11	Not MacOS X
13:11	<Lns> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Macintosh_System_7.5.3_screenshot.png
13:12	<ball> Yeah, that's not MacOS X
13:13	<Lns> well it's not 7.6.1 either hehe
13:13	* Lns dials up a bbs
13:16	* ball is still on Fidonet :-)
13:16	<cliebow> you are correct...the x snuck in there..
13:19	cg_uira has joined #ltsp
13:26	<Lns> Fidonet!
13:27	That thing was such a pain for me to set up on my board
13:29	<ball> FTN software can be notoriously arcane.
13:30	<Lns> Hit <Esc> twice for BBS...
13:31	<kusznir_> HI all: I'm having an issue where my nbd images built with the LTSP script are throwing I/O errors on reading /etc/resolv.conf. The file is there in the chroot, and readable without issue. I've rebuilt the nbd twice, no errors/warnings show up durring the rebuild (other than xinetd already configured on that port for that image)
13:31	Any suggestions?
13:33	<alkisg> kusznir_: you need to specify your dns server in lts.conf
13:34	<kusznir_> alkisg: syntax for that?
13:34	<alkisg> DNS_SERVER=1.2.3.4 and SEARCH_DOMAIN=local
13:34	(change appropriately)
13:34	<kusznir_> alkisg: ok, thanks...will reboot now and check.
13:35	<alkisg> kusznir_: the client, right? not the server :)
13:35	<kusznir_> alkisg: yes, the client :)
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13:44	<kusznir_> Great...there's now a rogue dhcp server on the network, and my thin client is listening to it instead of the proper one, and not booting as a result.....
13:44	ball has quit IRC
13:50	<vagrantc> seek and destroy
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14:24	<bulletxt> hi, there is something I'm trying to understand. Let's say Ubuntu 9.04 requires at least 384mb of ram to work in a reasonable way, does this mean that the client computer requires 384mb too? thanks
14:26	I'm asking because I'm not understanding how is the ltsp server working. who keeps in memory the loaded kernel and all the apps loaded, the ltsp server or the client? if it's the server, what does the client need as requirement?
14:26	and as last question, if 5 clients connect to the ltsp server, does the server have in memory the kernel loaded 5 times?
14:27	<vmlintu> bulletxt: server has its own kernel in memory and all the thin clients have their own kernels in their memories, so the server does not have six kernels loaded
14:28	<bulletxt> vmlintu: this means, that if ubuntu 9.04 is the server and requires 384mb of ram, each client needs at least 384mb?
14:29	<vmlintu> bulletxt: 128mb is usually enough on thin clients, but some applications may consume more x.org memory
14:29	<vagrantc> !serversizing
14:29	<ltspbot> vagrantc: Error: "serversizing" is not a valid command.
14:29	<vagrantc> !serversize
14:29	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "serversize" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
14:30	<vmlintu> bulletxt: The server runs all the applications. I wouldn't try running an ltsp server with 384mb for more than a single client.
14:30	<vagrantc> bulletxt: look at that URL ^^
14:31	<bulletxt> vmlintu: no wait, im not saying the server has 384mb of memory. the server has 8gb of ram. My question is, how much should the client have of ram since you said the clients of their own memory, and ubuntu 9.04 officially states 384 of minimum ram
14:31	<vagrantc> bulletxt: the clients typically just connect to the server, and use a minimal amount of ram on the client. the applications, which is what consumes a lot of ram, are all running on the server.
14:32	<bulletxt> vagrantc: but, how many kernels are loaded in memory if 5 clients are connected?
14:32	<vagrantc> unless you are doing localapps or fatclients.
14:32	<bulletxt> no , im not doing localapps or fatclients
14:32	<vagrantc> bulletxt: one kernel on the server, and one kernel on each client. one kernel per computer.
14:32	unless you're doing virtual machines :)
14:33	<bulletxt> vagrantc: ok so, each client has in memory the kernel, then for example gnome starts and all of its applicatsions. gnome and apps are loaded on the clients ram or the server?
14:33	<vagrantc> bulletxt: perhaps you're thinking kernel means something other than it does?
14:33	bulletxt: client's ram.
14:33	DOH.
14:33	no.
14:34	bulletxt: sorry... SERVER's ram.
14:34	typo on my part.
14:35	<bulletxt> vagrantc: if clients applications, like gnome and its apps load on the server, are you sure the kernel instead loads on the client ram?
14:35	<vagrantc> bulletxt: the only thing running in the client's ram (for the most part) is the X.org server. GNOME, firefox, whatever, is all running on the server's ram.
14:35	bulletxt: let's stop using the word kernel; i think you're looking for some other word.
14:35	<bulletxt> yes maybe im not understanding. let's say 5 clients connect to the server, do 5 kernels get loaded?
14:36	<vagrantc> it doesn't matter weather the client connects to the server or not, each physical computer is running one kernel. period.
14:36	<vmlintu> bulletxt: what do you mean with kernel?
14:36	<bulletxt> the actual Linux kernel and its modules, is one loaded for each client?
14:36	<vagrantc> bulletxt: each client is running a linux kernel, yes.
14:37	bulletxt: why are you asking about kernels, though?
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14:38	<bulletxt> because I need to understand the requirements I must meet for both server and clients. I have like 40-60 clients that must connect to the server. is 8gb of ram enough for the server? is a quad code cpu 64bit enough?
14:38	<vagrantc> !serversize
14:38	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "serversize" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
14:38	<bulletxt> ok ill read
14:38	<vagrantc> bulletxt: please read that
14:38	<bulletxt> ok yea, thanks for all your help
14:38	<vmlintu> sometimes ltsp thin clients seem to work like magic, but I haven't seen yet a box that would run without a kernel.. :)
14:38	<vagrantc> bulletxt: the only way you're ever really know is to try it, though.
14:39	bulletxt: a kernel typically takes very little ram, so it's probably not the part you should really be worrying about.
14:39	<bulletxt> my point before was, that vagrantc said apps load in servers ram, but the kernel isntead loads in the clients ram so I'm not understanding too much
14:39	<vagrantc> bulletxt: the main thing that will eat all your ram are the GUI applications
14:39	<bulletxt> ok
14:40	<vmlintu> I'd say 75% firefox, 15% openoffice, 10% all the rest..
14:41	<bulletxt> ok, i'll use this as reference Total Ram = 256MB + ( 50MB * number_of_terminals )
14:41	<vagrantc> depends on how you use firefox... on the rare occasion i use openoffice, it usually uses 5 times the amount of ram my iceweasel/firefox uses.
14:41	<bulletxt> so basicly, 256mb of ram on the clients are more than enough
14:41	<vagrantc> bulletxt: really, the only way you'll really know is through testing.
14:41	<bulletxt> yea
14:43	<vagrantc> bulletxt: 256 should be pretty good. the clients do use system ram when the video card runs out of video ram sometimes, and the more applications being displayed on the X.org server, the more memory it will consume... but that's a trivial amount compared to what gets used on the server actually running the application.
14:43	<vmlintu> usually all the users have firefox open with flash, so in total it ends up eating quite a bit..
14:43	<bulletxt> yea, I guess I'll put plenty of ram on the server since at least 40 machines will have to connect to it
14:43	<vagrantc> yeah, flash is the latest fad to make computing a pain.
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14:44	<bulletxt> flash won't be a problem, the company is behind a proxy and to make it short, they can't go anywhere on the net but only access a local page. and then they must use openoffice. nothing more, nothing less
14:45	<vagrantc> nice.
14:45	<bulletxt> i'de say 8gb and a quadcore clocked at 2.6 or 2.8ghz should be enough
14:46	<vmlintu> firefox's safebrowsing and history files are another killers for the servers.. I'm still amazed how quickly all nfs servers have died if those have not been disabled..
14:49	<bulletxt> ok, considering those clients pc for sure don't have more than 256mb of ram (384 at max), I'de say it isn't a good idea to make local apps, what do you think?
14:50	<vmlintu> bulletxt: Personally I would not try running localapps with that little ram
14:50	<bulletxt> yea
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14:52	<bulletxt> what happens if a user puts a cd inside a client?
14:53	or a usbkey, or whatever
14:53	<vagrantc> if you're running gnome, it should show an icon on the desktop.
14:53	otherwise, mounts should appear in /media/$USER/$MOUNT
14:53	<bulletxt> ok so, the client is able to read the hardware (or the server is actually reading it?)
14:54	<vagrantc> it's some LTSP magic, called ltspfs ...
14:54	there's plumbing between the two to make it work.
14:55	<bulletxt> ok great, is it installed by default and works out of the box?
14:55	<vagrantc> should be, yes.
14:55	<bulletxt> ok
14:57	<johnny> vagrantc, i'd like to have a chat about something used by dbus that can map the client dbus to the remote dbus and choose which interface is provided by which computer
14:57	<kusznir_> Ok, question: I need to make my clients log into / pull up a CentOS 5.x workstation. My plan was to have an ubuntu lts server that "runs" the thin clients, and configure it through lts.conf to allow other (centos) servers to be chosen for login servers.
14:58	I've tried setting up the host keys and adding it in there, but logins fail (could not contact the remote machine). Is there more stuff I need to add?
14:58	What about getting USB devices and sound passing through?
14:58	<vagrantc> johnny: this is the sort of thing i am glad others are working on :)
14:59	<johnny> you need ldminfod to run
14:59	for one
14:59	<vagrantc> kusznir_: is the centos server on the same network?
14:59	<johnny> perhaps provided by ldm-server
14:59	<kusznir_> vagrantc: yes, it is.
14:59	I've tried both IP, local dns (no domain), and fqdn, all yield the same result.
15:00	<vagrantc> kusznir_: and you'll need to build packages for ltspfs to get USB devices ... you'll need to configure the pulseaudio to alsa layer to get sound working.
15:00	kusznir_: so, the thin-client is able to ssh directly to the server, without any routers in the middle?
15:01	<kusznir_> vagrantc Yes, that is correct.
15:02	<vagrantc> kusznir_: can you start a shell from the thin client using SCREEN_08=shell ... and try to login to the centos server from the commandline?
15:02	or SCREEN_*
15:02	<kusznir_> Yep. Works fine.
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15:02	<vagrantc> kusznir_: you've got ldminfod running on the centos server?
15:03	<kusznir_> vagrantc: no I do not.
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15:04	<vagrantc> they're probably confused about where the Xsession file is...
15:06	kusznir_: you could set LDM_XSESSION=/etc/X11/xinit/Xsession in lts.conf
15:06	kusznir_: but it would be better to get ldminfod running on it
15:06	<kusznir_> vagrantc: I think the ldminfod is what I needed...Is the source available readily on ltsp.org?
15:06	<vagrantc> !source
15:06	<ltspbot> vagrantc: My source is at http://supybot.com/
15:07	<vagrantc> not the right source
15:07	<kusznir_> :)
15:07	<johnny> kusznir_, just install ldm-server
15:07	<vagrantc> on centos?
15:07	<johnny> or whatever they call it in centos
15:07	it might still come with ltsp-server
15:07	<kusznir_> that's the problem: there's no packages for ltsp5 available for CentOS.
15:07	<johnny> depending on the version
15:07	kusznir_, no backports?
15:07	<kusznir_> As far as I've been able to find...
15:08	<johnny> what kind of shop is rhel/centos running
15:08	<bulletxt> if i'm on a client, is there a way I can discover if for example firefox process is running as localapp or instead on the server?
15:08	<vagrantc> kusznir_: if centos doesn't have it, then you could steal it from the ubuntu server you have installed and manually configure it
15:08	<kusznir_> It would need to be Fedora Core ~5 or something.
15:08	<johnny> rhel packages should be available..
15:08	kusznir_, that's terrible
15:08	upgrade
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15:09	<kusznir_> CentOS is on a 2 year release cycle for IT professionals who don't have the time/ability/whatnot to rebuild a box every 6 months when ubuntu/fedora/whatnot release a new version.
15:09	<vagrantc> kusznir_: the source is: https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk
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15:09	<johnny> rebuild a box? try yum update :)
15:09	<vagrantc> kusznir_: the source is: https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/files
15:10	<kusznir_> It also takes commertial software vendors (such as Cadence, Mentor, etc. $10,000+ license fees) more than 6 months to build and certify against a release. Once done, major versions of all software packages must be locked. CentOS/RHEL provides that.
15:10	<johnny> thatsucks..
15:10	glad i plan on never relying on such software
15:10	<vagrantc> different people have different needs.
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15:10	* vagrantc cannot comprehend why that is so difficult for some people to grasp.
15:11	<kusznir_> Yea...Its really annoying to end users, but its a least-of-evils for enterprise deployments (where I'm responsible for 50+ systems/users, many of which have poorly written code that I can't break with version bumps of software releases, etc.
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15:11	<bulletxt> if doing cat /proc/cpuinfo on a client, will it output the cpu of the server or the client? I'm sorry I ask these questions but I can't test it now as I dont have a client here
15:12	<johnny> kusznir_, there should be some backport for just ltsp tho :(
15:12	it's not a hard package to backport..
15:12	i'm suprised nobody has done it
15:12	<kusznir_> johnny: I agree....But as far as I can tell, there's not one. I've been quite frustrated about it for a while, and was running ltsp4.2 as a result (it worked beautifully under CentOS)
15:12	<johnny> you could yell at warren
15:12	or yell on k12 list :)
15:13	<vagrantc> well, fedora's LTSP port finally got somewhere after i started a hacked up proof of concept (coming from a debian background).
15:13	<kusznir_> I "gently complained" again on the ltsp list last week...
15:14	<vagrantc> so there's a lot to be said for just trying, and then people will yell and holler and say "you're doing it wrong" ... at which point they start to do it right, and i sit back and smile :)
15:14	<kusznir_> I personally think the most likely end support is to wait for CentOS 6, which should be based on Fedora 11 or so, so with the fedora port's progress, hopefully it will all work then.....
15:14	<johnny> yeah.. you're probably right kusznir_ .. and vagrantc
15:15	:(
15:15	<kusznir_> :)
15:16	<vagrantc> alas, i'll finally have to start making real backports of ltsp for debian again ... the latest upload is the first that has versioned dependencies on other packages not in stable. :(
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15:38	<kusznir_> vagrantc: Ok, I can't figure out how to get source from the repo...what source system are you using?
15:40	it doesn't look like svn or cvs...
15:40	I've never seen "bzr" before.
15:42	<vmlintu> This is interesting.. I'm having problems shutting down terminals running karmic. I get "nbd0: Receive control failed (result -4)" after "* Asking all remaining processes to terminate". It looks like nbd connection is killed before some other process tries to read something from the squashfs image.
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15:44	<alkisg> kusznir_: e.g.: bzr branch lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
15:45	<bulletxt> if I want to run localapps, is it enough to add LOCAL_APPS = Y to the ltsp.conf file?
15:46	<johnny> local apps are default if your distro is new enough
15:46	that variable i mean
15:46	you still have to install the local apps tho
15:46	<bulletxt> ubuntu 9.04 by default installs ltsp with local apps false
15:47	does local apps mean the client must have the software installed locally?
15:47	<alkisg> bulletxt: local apps is true in 9.04. You need LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
15:47	to display them to the menus, though
15:47	<vagrantc> i seem to recall some outdated documentation that defaults local_apps to false
15:48	<alkisg> bulletxt: zcat /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/lts-parameters.txt.gz \| grep LOCAL
15:48	<bulletxt> alkisg: but, if local apps is true, what does it mean? who is handling the process? the server or the client?
15:48	<alkisg> LOCAL_APPS boolean True
15:48	<johnny> server still handsl all by default bulletxt
15:48	if you want specific apps, you can run them ltsp-localapp somecommand or whatever it is..
15:49	<bulletxt> ok let's say the client opens gimp and local apps is true, who is loading the n mb in ram? the server?
15:49	<Lns> bulletxt: the client is handling the process if you're using localapps for that specific app. you have to install each localapp in the chroot and launch it via "localapps gimp" for example.
15:49	I think. =p
15:50	<bulletxt> ok so, I haven't touched anything in the default ubuntu installation. I start a client and I have all the apps of the server. I load gimp. does it load in the clients ram or the server?
15:50	<Lns> server.
15:51	<alkisg> bulletxt: e.g. if you run xterm, it runs on the server
15:51	if you run "ltsp-localapps xterm", it runs on the client
15:51	The menus are automatically modified to "ltsp-localapps <the-application>" when LOCAL_APPS_MENU is true
15:51	<johnny> for installed applications only
15:51	<bulletxt> oh ok, what do you mean for menu? gnome's menu?
15:52	<johnny> yes
15:52	<alkisg> Yes
15:52	<bulletxt> ok
15:52	so it calls the installed program on the server and sends everything it needs to the client, for example, gimp would send gtk library, the gimp etc
15:53	<alkisg> No. To install gimp as a localapp, you'd need to do: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install gimp ==> meaning, to install it to the virtual client hard disk
15:54	<bulletxt> alkisg: if I don't install gimp as a local app, will ltsp-localapps gimp work?
15:54	<Lns> no
15:54	<bulletxt> ok
15:54	so local app actually means it must be installed on the client hard disk
15:55	<Lns> bulletxt: it must be installed in the client chroot on the server, which is accessed over the network via NBD on the client.
15:55	<bulletxt> yea, it doesnt install on the client's hard disk :)
15:55	now I understand
15:55	generally speaking, localapps is discouraged I suppose right?
15:55	<Lns> depends.
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15:56	<bulletxt> if I have 40 clients, I must manually "install" gimp on all 40 pcs
15:56	<Lns> for instance, a lot of people like using Firefox as a localapp because of performance issues when you have tons of them running on the server, with flash, java, etc.
15:56	<bulletxt> yea
15:56	<Lns> bulletxt: no. you install it in the client chroot. it gets sent to the clients when they boot via NBD.
15:56	<johnny> so it automatically works for all of em..
15:57	<Lns> ltsp doesn't do anything regarding having to touch each client afaik (besides setting the bios to network boot)
15:58	which means LTSP ROCKS.
15:58	<bulletxt> ok so, if I install gimp with hroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install gimp, does it require LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True flag?
15:59	if that flag is false and I install gimp with chroot etc, what happens if I start gimp on the client?
15:59	<alkisg> It runs on the server
15:59	<Gadi> (when chosen from the gnome menu)
15:59	<bulletxt> so I must manually go on all clients and set gimp launcher to start with ltsp-localapps gimp, is this correct?
16:00	<Lns> alkisg: does .._MENU=True give you a "Localapps menu" under Applications, or does it automatically modify the Exec= line to include ltsp-localapps ?
16:00	bulletxt: no, no and no again. =p
16:00	the launchers are on the server.
16:00	<alkisg> Lns: it automatically modifies the exec line (using a tmp folder to put the modified .desktop files)
16:00	<Gadi> it will replace the Gimp entry in the gnome menu with an entry to ltsp-localapps gimp
16:00	<Lns> that's sweeeet =)
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16:01	<bulletxt> I'll explain again: I install gimp with chroot etc, but the LOCAL_APPS_MENU is false, what happens if I start gimp in the client?
16:01	<Lns> bulletxt: see above answer!
16:01	why are you asking the same questions?
16:02	<bulletxt> becaus alkisg said it would run on the server
16:02	<Lns> and it does.
16:02	<bulletxt> I want it to load ram on the client
16:02	<Lns> then set LOCAL_APPS_MENU to TRUE.
16:02	<bulletxt> I want only gimp to load on client, all other apps normally on server
16:02	<Lns> same answer.
16:02	<bulletxt> that's the point, I dont want all apps to run on client
16:02	<Lns> they won't.
16:02	<alkisg> Then only install gimp on the chroot, no other new apps there
16:02	<Lns> you didn't install all apps in the chroot.
16:03	actually, isn't there an lts.conf option LOCAL_APPS_LIST or something too?
16:03	<alkisg> bulletxt: so, (1) install gimp on the chroot, (2) set LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True, and you only have gimp as a localapp
16:03	Lns, don't complicate things :)
16:03	<Lns> lol
16:03	<bulletxt> alkisg: ooh, now that's clear to me :)
16:03	lol
16:04	I thought that flag would automatically do strange things for all apps even if they werent installed with chroot :)
16:04	so that flag only applies to programs installed with chroot, sounds great
16:04	<alkisg> Right
16:04	<Lns> :)
16:04	<bulletxt> ok finally I got it :)
16:05	<Lns> Actually..how does the server know when something isn't in the chroot? won't it fail to execute w/ltsp-localapps? does it have a case or something that if it fails it launches on the server?
16:06	<alkisg> Lns, it looks for .desktop files in the chroot /usr/share/applications
16:06	<Lns> alkisg: ah, duh.
16:08	<bulletxt> so just to make it clear, what happens if the app_menu flag is off and I dont chroot anything on the server. I go on the client and do: ltsp-localapps gimp . what happens?
16:08	<alkisg> It searches for gimp in the chroot, doesn't find it, so does nothing
16:09	<bulletxt> ok so, what is tha command for? if gimp is installed in chroot and before we said that "gimp" command would start it on client, when is ltsp-localapps gimp useful?
16:09	<Lns> alkisg: LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS is a granular list of apps you want to run locally on the client even if they are installed in the chroot as well...?
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16:10	<Lns> err..i mean run on the server (exluded app names) ?
16:10	<bulletxt> alkisg: if what you said before is correct, I don't understand when is ltsp-localapps gimp needed
16:11	<Lns> bulletxt: you can run any program on the server or client. it's there to give you the choice.
16:11	for example, some clients might not want to run gimp locally, so you don't use it for them.
16:12	<bulletxt> before we said that the command "gimp" is enought to start it as local app if its installed with chroot and appmenu flag is true. at this point, I don't get what's ltsp-localapps used for
16:13	<Lns> you need ltsp-localapps still.
16:13	<alkisg> > before we said that the command "gimp" is enough ==> no, we were talking about launching gimp the usual way, i.e. from the menus
16:14	LOCAL_APPS_MENU has modified the menus though, so they actually run "ltsp-localapps gimp", not just gimp
16:14	Lns, LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS comma-delimited list of application names as they appear in the .desktop filename ;)
16:15	* alkisg calls it a day, bye all...
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16:31	<bulletxt> if I set LOCAL_APPS_MENU=true, all items in menu will have the ltsp-localapps in front of the command. however I only want some apps to run as localapp, so I can use LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST. The problem is, what happens if for ex, gimp isn't in the whitelist? Will it still have the ltsp-localapps in front of it? if yes, it means it won't start, if not it means it will normally start on the server.
16:32	I hope it won't have the ltsp-localapps in front of it and instead normally be "gimp" and load on the server
16:35	<johnny> yes
16:35	that's what is going to happen
16:35	iirc
16:36	<bulletxt> johnny: so if gimp isn't in whitelist, even though LOCAL_APPS_MENU is true, gimp in menu wont have the ltsp-localapps in front of it ... ok thanks
16:37	<johnny> that's a guess.. i've never used local apps. but sounds reasonable
16:37	<bulletxt> this means as soon as you set a whitelist, all apps that aren't define in whitelist wont' have the ltsp-localapps in meu
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16:37	<bulletxt> ok
16:37	<johnny> i'm about to do local apps wiht firefox shortly
16:37	<bulletxt> johnny: you want firefox to be the only localapp?
16:38	<johnny> sure.. my clients don't have enough memory for much else
16:39	<bulletxt> ok so you are basicly in my same situation, you want only some programs to start locally and all the rest from server
16:40	<johnny> and now i'm off to work
16:45	<vagrantc> only applications installed in the chroot will have modified menus when LOCAL_APPS_MENU=true, so you shouldn't need to use LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST unless some machines need a different set of local apps.
16:48	<bulletxt> vagrantc: oh... so LOCAL_APPS_MENU=true, won't modify the whole menu, but only the apps in menu that are installed with chroot, this would be perfect
16:48	if no app is installed with chroot, OCAL_APPS_MENU=true won't do anything
16:48	<vagrantc> right.
16:48	<bulletxt> ok great
16:48	<vagrantc> some people over-think this.
16:48	:)
16:49	we try to make it so you usually only need to manually configure a few things, if any :)
16:50	<bulletxt> well, someone led me to think that LOCAL_APPS_MENU=true would overwrite the menu, ignoring if an app is actually installed locally with chroot. This could lead to some ugly situations so I thought a whitelist was necessary
16:51	if it's like you say, ltsp is has a real brain xD
16:51	<vagrantc> well, it just looks at what's available, and only modifies those entries.
16:53	<bulletxt> so an in menu that isn't installed in chroot will never have ltsp-localapps in front of it, even if LOCAL_APPS_MENU=true . this fixes all my possible issues I was having in mind
16:54	*so an app
16:55	<vagrantc> in general, just try something, and see what it does.
16:56	<bulletxt> yea, the problem is that at the moment I can't... I have to wait for tomorrow..... but i'm curious :)
16:59	vagrantc: then what can LOCAL_APPS_WHITELIST be useful for?
17:00	<vagrantc> if you have different thin clients, some that need apps x, y and z, and some that only need x.
17:01	additionally, there are some applications that don't show up in the menu's at all, and if you want to restrict it explicitly to a certain set of applications, using the whitelist prevents people from using ltsp-localapps manually to start an arbitrary command
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17:02	<bulletxt> oh ok, but anyways if that app isn't installed with chroot it won't do anything. But yes, I see some purpose of a whitelist
17:03	<vagrantc> sure
17:05	<bulletxt> i'm using dnsmask for making an ltsp server without dhcp, do you by chance know what is for example this parameter in the conf file: dhcp-range=10.160.31.10,proxy
17:09	<vagrantc> just can't take the easy route, can you? :P
17:09	i think that parameter is used to configure which dhcp server it is proxying for.
17:11	<bulletxt> ok
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20:23	<bart1> Ok, where's Gadi, I took a long shot, I followed his advices, I was able to BURN DVDs on my THIN CLIENT! Wow!
20:23	Thank you so much Gadi.
20:25	I owe you one.
20:25	I owe you two!
20:25	I owe you a lot!
20:29	Can anyone help me, why my thin client has spinning fan sound? It's Intel Atom.
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21:28	<ball> How do I choose an appropriate memory size for an LTSP thin client?
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21:52	<bart1> Hey ball, have you seen the LTSP manual? It contains system requirements there. Hope to help.
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21:57	<ball> bart1: I'll see if Google can turn that up then.
21:57	(thanks)
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22:17	<afriicantiger> hello
22:17	i would appreciate some help with my ltsp server setup
22:17	i am stuck at booting the client
22:18	i am getting the error: tftp cannot open connection
22:18	<bart1> Do you have a firewall?
22:18	<afriicantiger> no i do not
22:19	dhcpserver appears to be working
22:19	<bart1> are you using the right architecture in your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
22:20	I'm not an expert here, but it was once a problem of mine...
22:20	too
22:20	<afriicantiger> where is the arch specified in dhcp.conf?
22:21	ok
22:21	yes, i am using the correct arch (i386)
22:21	my clients are i386
22:22	<bart1> are you blocking anyting in your /etc/hosts.allow file?
22:23	<afriicantiger> no, don't have a hosts.allow
22:24	oops, not true
22:24	i do have hosts.allow
22:24	it has
22:24	nbdrootd: ALL: keepalive
22:25	cat /etc/hosts.deny
22:25	sorry, typed on the wrong keyboard
22:26	<bart1> ok
22:26	yeah keep nbdrootd
22:27	<afriicantiger> do i need to add anything to hosts.allow?
22:29	<bart1> try adding this in the mean time, ALL : ALL, it simply means allow ALL daemons : in the ALL (ip, network range)
22:29	ALL : ALL
22:30	<afriicantiger> just before the tftp cannot open connection message, I am getting a tftp ARP timeout message
22:30	<bart1> have you tried updating your chroot i386?
22:30	<afriicantiger> that makes me think that there is a network issue
22:31	i ran ltsp-update-image
22:31	<bart1> OK try typing this: tail -f /var/log/messages - it will show all the failed logins in your server
22:32	maybe you can see it from there, I use this command when I figured out what ports my thin clients were using, that's the time I installed a firewall
22:33	You can see from there something like DPOINT:2001, DPOINT:69, etc...
22:35	<afriicantiger> i don't see any reference to DPOINT or 2001 or 69 in the messages log file
22:37	i will tail /var/log/syslog and see what messages i get when trying to boo the client
22:40	<bart1> OK, I'm sorry, maybe because your ports are open, I only used this to figure out what TFTPD port is using, so I saw DPOINT:69, when I enabled it in my firewall, next DPOINT:2001, then it went smoothly
22:41	I'm sorry it's DPT=69, and DPT=2001
22:42	<afriicantiger> let me check
22:42	<bart1> I know it was a firewall issue because it said [UFW BLOCK] - and my firewall is UFW
22:43	<afriicantiger> no go
22:43	<bart1> But wait, I don't think yours is a firewall issue, I just threw it out there, so maybe you will need it in the future
22:43	<afriicantiger> I do have ufw installed but it is disabled
22:43	<bart1> I see... Try to update your chroot first you know how right?
22:43	<afriicantiger> no
22:44	i know how to get into the chroot
22:44	but not how to update it
22:45	<bart1> What distro are you using?
22:45	<afriicantiger> ubuntu 8.10
22:46	<bart1> Oh wait, mine is 9.04, but here's the link: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot - BUT ASK ADVICE from the experts first, I did it here
22:47	because it's for Jaunty, I don't want to make your problem worst :)
22:47	<afriicantiger> ok
22:54	the update appears to have failed so I am building a new clint environment (ltsp-build-client)
23:00	<bart1> OK. Is your TFTP server running? try this netstat -apn \| grep :69
23:01	http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/TFTP - this will REALLY help you my friend...
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