IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 March 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:23 | <mnemoc> !screens
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| 01:24 | <muppis> mnemoc, I think our bot has found a better place to be.. :(
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| 01:24 | <mnemoc> oh :(
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| 05:08 | <mgariepy> good morning everyone
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| 05:13 | <knipwim> hi there
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| 05:14 | mgariepy: so ltsp-remoteapps runs on the client together with ltsp-open?
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| 05:14 | while ltsp-remoteappsd is listening on the server and providing the mounts to the client?
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| 05:22 | <mgariepy> knipwim, on the thin clients /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X01-remoteapps and X51-remoteapps mount the shared directory
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| 05:22 | ltsp-remoteappd is running on the thin client
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| 05:23 | the programs are started by ssh by ltsp-remoteappsd
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| 05:28 | <knipwim> i got more questions still, but i got to go to a meeting ...
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| 05:28 | <mgariepy> ok no problem, i'll be here all day i guess :)
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| 05:28 | talk to you later
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| 07:53 | <jtwood> Whats the best way to share printers to the clients? I've got a samba print server...
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| 07:54 | <Gadi> fat or thin?
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| 07:55 | <jtwood> both
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| 07:55 | :)
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| 07:55 | of course, rigHT!
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| 07:55 | I figure the thin clients would be easy actually...
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| 07:56 | <Gadi> yeah, so for the thin clients, you can make the server a client to the print server
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| 07:56 | (is it samba and cups print server?)
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| 07:56 | <jtwood> Yeah
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| 07:56 | <Gadi> yeah, so that's easily done with /etc/cups/client.conf
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| 07:57 | for the fat clients, set: CUPS_SERVER=<ip> in lts.conf
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| 07:57 | (I believe thats the var)
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| 07:57 | <jtwood> I can find it..
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| 07:58 | <Gadi> oh, y'know what
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| 07:58 | <jtwood> ?
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| 07:58 | <Gadi> scratch that lts.conf var for fat client - that only works for local apps
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| 07:58 | <jtwood> OH YEAH...didn't think about that
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| 07:59 | <Gadi> for fat client, you should drop the same client.conf in the chroot
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| 07:59 | <jtwood> yeah...that makes sense actually...sometime I think too much
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| 07:59 | <Gadi> client.conf just looks like: ServerName <ip>
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| 07:59 | btw
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| 08:00 | <jtwood> I am really impressed with the fat client setup...its been very easy once I alkisg and I walked through everything and realized I needed to mod my inetd.conf
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| 08:00 | So many configuration files --- ugh...easy to forget one
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| 08:01 | <Gadi> yeah - I think if I were doing fat client, I would use NFS just to avoid the constant chroot updates
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| 08:02 | <jtwood> Excuse me for being completely ignorant...not exactly sure of what is going on between the two...what are the advantages/disadvantages LTSPwise
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| 08:02 | <Gadi> meaning NBD vs NFS?
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| 08:03 | <jtwood> Yeah...but just the LTSP significance
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| 08:03 | <Gadi> well, in our NBD approach, we create a squashfs (compressed) filesystem image out of the chroot and export it as a hard drive over the network
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| 08:03 | because it is compressed, there is less network traffic and faster reads
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| 08:04 | which means faster booting
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| 08:04 | <Gadi> but since it is an image *built from* the chroot, when you change the chroot, you have to update it
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| 08:04 | hence, ltsp-update-image
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| 08:04 | <jtwood> Oh
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| 08:04 | so with NFS
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| 08:04 | You run directly from the chroot?
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| 08:05 | <Gadi> yeah, with NFS< you are exporting the chroot itself and mounting it read only
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| 08:05 | <jtwood> Yeah...
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| 08:05 | <Gadi> so, changes you make to the chroot are reflected immediately on the clients
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| 08:05 | <jtwood> I must have taken my idiot pills today -- cause I realize that
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| 08:05 | Doh...
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| 08:05 | <Gadi> but, because it is uncompressed and rather large, there is more network traffic and longer booting
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| 08:06 | <jtwood> :_
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| 08:06 | <Gadi> another perk to NBD is it is all contained in one file
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| 08:06 | <Gadi> which you can easily back up, move around, etc
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| 08:07 | <jtwood> Yeah, definitely that...too...
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| 08:07 | <Gadi> so, pros and cons to everything
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| 08:07 | <jtwood> Oh, I know...
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| 08:07 | I am already catching the cons from users of trying to take away their Windows machines
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| 08:07 | <Gadi> but, once you start running apps in your chroot, the updates increase dramatically over a thin chroot
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| 08:07 | <jtwood> But it seems like everyday we are fighting MS
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| 08:08 | These updates...is that just when you actually go into the chroot and update or add packages...right?
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| 08:08 | <Gadi> yeah, thats what I mean
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| 08:09 | <jtwood> Okay...yeah...that is definitely something to think about
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| 08:09 | More than likely I will roll out testing with NFS then...think about switching over to NBD after things somewhat stabilize
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| 08:09 | <Gadi> so, if you are the type to update your system as often as updates are available, you might consider it
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| 08:09 | of course,doing it with nbd gives you a nice way to backup the last image
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| 08:09 | <jtwood> Yeah
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| 08:09 | <Gadi> so in case an update breaks things, you don't freak
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| 08:09 | :)
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| 08:10 | <jtwood> I am paranoid about that...I have a tendency to backup the chroot and the image before adding software, reconfiguring...yadayada
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| 08:10 | Amanda has saved my hide a few times too!
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| 08:10 | <Gadi> heh
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| 08:11 | <jtwood> Well, we got lucky and snagged a few Pogo Linux FS on ebay a little while ago...nothing super but they weren't all that old
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| 08:12 | packed them full of drives and using one for Samba FS, one for Amanda, and one for LTSP - temporarily
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| 08:13 | Well, Gadi...thanks for the suggestions...and the help
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| 08:13 | I am going to go mess around with it a bit...I appreciate it as always...
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| 08:13 | <Gadi> cheers
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| 08:13 | <jtwood> Thank you -- good day if I don't catch you later...stay warm
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| 08:29 | <shawnp0wers> Does anyone know offhand if the traditional way (via lts.conf) to set up thin clients as print servers still works if clients are fat clients?
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| 08:36 | <Gadi> it should
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| 08:40 | <shawnp0wers> Thanks Gadi I realize I could have set up a fat client, etc, etc, but& well I'm sorta lazy. ;)
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| 08:41 | <Gadi> I hear ya - lazy people should have taken over the world by now....
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| 08:48 | <xavierb> @Gadi, you said to jtwood that there is more network traffic with NFS, but that s only true for boot, right?
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| 08:49 | <Gadi> right - or whenever uncached files in the chroot are accessed
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| 08:50 | <xavierb> what sort of uncached files?
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| 08:57 | <Gadi> xavierb: both NFS and NBD have some inherent caching so if the same file is accessed twice it can retrieve it from memory rather than the drive
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| 08:59 | so, in our case, you can say that whenever the thin client needs to access a new file from the chroot, with NBD, there will be less bandwidth used than with NFS
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| 08:59 | typically, the time when thin clients are accessing the most new files is on boot
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| 09:23 | <abeehc> Roasted_: as it happens someone corrected my misinformation again if you check the logs
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| 09:24 | <Roasted_> abeehc, in regard to what?
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| 09:25 | <abeehc> booting many clients etc
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| 09:26 | <Roasted_> ah
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| 09:26 | well I'm trying to bond my two NIC's now
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| 09:26 | to see if that would help
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| 09:26 | previously I was only using 1
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| 09:26 | <abeehc> word that's a good call
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| 09:26 | smarter person than me said your clients would get faster
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| 09:26 | i don't thinkg that's strictly booting
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| 09:26 | <Roasted_> I've never bonded NICs before, and I followed the guide I read but my 2nd NIC is still pulling DHCP addys
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| 09:27 | If I scatter the boot process 50/50 they all boot. If I run around like a nut and power all 30 on at same time there's always a few that don't boot
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| 09:27 | a matter of 3 or 4, but still. enough of a nusance I want to figure out what's up
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| 09:27 | <abeehc> i can't; find it in the damn log page
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| 09:28 | <abeehc> http://pastebin.com/4zBUspbB
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| 09:28 | <abeehc> check that bug it looks popular
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| 09:28 | <Roasted_> ah yeah, I saw that
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| 09:28 | I didn't read through the bug though
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| 09:30 | <Roasted_> looks like that bug has a workaround tho
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| 09:30 | I'm not sure if it's *my* problem though, but I'll save it for sake of being aware
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| 10:02 | <knipwim> mgariepy: meeting over, and at home :)
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| 10:02 | <vvinet> !m
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| 10:04 | <mgariepy> knipwim, what do you want to know?
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| 10:07 | <knipwim> okay, when i'm in a local app, what triggers the opening of a remote app? is this done by ltsp-open?
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| 10:08 | <mgariepy> yeah, ltsp-open is responsible to copy the file somewhere it can be accessed by the applications server then it runs xdg-open on the server for this file.
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| 10:09 | <knipwim> so all (ltsp-remoteapps, ltsp-remoteappsd and ltsp-open) exist on the client
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| 10:10 | <mgariepy> yes exactly
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| 10:10 | we use mailcap to make ltsp-open appear in firefox or chromium
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| 10:11 | <knipwim> the entries in the mailcap file determine which filetypes are opened remotely and which locally
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| 10:13 | <mgariepy> yes
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| 10:14 | usually local apps have a higher priority then remote apps
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| 10:16 | <knipwim> check, the understanding is beginning to emerge
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| 10:17 | now time to try it out
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| 10:17 | thanks
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| 10:18 | <mgariepy> knipwim, what are you trying to do exactly ?
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| 10:19 | <knipwim> to include the ltsp-remoteapps functionality in the gentoo ltsp-package
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| 10:19 | <mgariepy> ok cool
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| 10:19 | <knipwim> and add some documentation in the gentoo wiki
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| 10:20 | <mgariepy> this is a nice feature remote app for LTSP, it makes it almost like a normal desktop :)
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| 10:26 | <Roasted_> Is there a guide you guys recommend using with bonding NICs? Each guide I've found either hasn't worked or is for a much older version of Ubuntu.
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> Roasted_: that's the last one I wrote when I tried bonding back in 8.10: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Trunking
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| 10:27 | haven't tried it since
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| 10:27 | <Roasted_> 9.10 vs 10.04 is where it seems things changed :(
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| 10:27 | I doubt 8.10 would help
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| 10:28 | I really hate to only use one NIc when I have two here
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| 10:28 | <alkisg> jtwood: compressed NBD is about 3-4 times faster than NFS, *not only while booting*, but while running apps as well
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| 10:28 | E.g. openning openoffice on a fat client with NFS takes 20 secs and 5 secs with compressed NBD
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| 10:28 | But with the default ubuntu setup NBD is no longer compressed
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| 10:28 | Roasted_: are they pci or pci-e?
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| 10:29 | <Roasted_> alkisg, I'm not sure. It's built into the server board... I would assume E...
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| 10:29 | alkisg, what do fat clients use by default? NFS or NBD?
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> nbd
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| 10:29 | <Roasted_> gotcha
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> If they're pci it won't make a difference as the pci bus speed is about 1 gigabit anyway
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| 10:30 | If they're pci-e, you'll double your bandwidth
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| 10:30 | <Roasted_> they';re PCIE
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| 10:30 | according to lspci
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> Are your clients and your switch gigabit?
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| 10:30 | <Roasted_> yes
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> Yup, then do that, it'll help a lot
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| 10:30 | <Roasted_> I'm trying.
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> Where did you get stuck?
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| 10:30 | <Roasted_> When I had no more internet on the server :(
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| 10:31 | I created the file in /etc/modprobe.d
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| 10:31 | <Roasted_> added the 2 alias lines that it said to add
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| 10:31 | using mode=6 or whatever
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| 10:31 | I installed ifenslave and then I edited the interface file.
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| 10:32 | <alkisg> While file in modprobe.d?
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| 10:32 | *what
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| 10:34 | <Roasted_> bonding.conf
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> What tutorial are you following?
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| 10:36 | <Roasted_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBonding
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> Never tried that one, don't know
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| 10:37 | <jtwood> The best advice for bonding is in the ifenslave docs. There is an example included...works like a charm
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| 10:40 | <jtwood> alkisg: Thanks for the advice on NBD vs NFS - It really just takes a minute to update the image - Gadi had a good point, but the update time isn't bad yet... ;)
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> jtwood: a minute? wow your chroot is small :D
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| 10:40 | <Lns> Roasted, I made a howto as well for ethernet bonding, I'm sure it's still applicable to whatever version you have: http://wiki.logicalnetworking.net/doku.php?id=networkbondingubuntu804
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| 10:41 | <alkisg> My *compressed* chroot is 7 Gb
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| 10:41 | <muppis> Huge.
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| 10:42 | Just under 700 Mb
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| 10:42 | <alkisg> I tried to use a dedicated btrfs partition for the fat chroot too
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| 10:42 | So I could update it and export it while still being compressed, so fast
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| 10:43 | It turns out my host os, lucid, isn't ready yet for btrfs :D
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| 10:43 | (nbd can export whole partitions)
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| 10:43 | (and btrfs supports compression)
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| 10:44 | <jtwood> alkisg: btrfs looks very intereting...I'll have to at least keep an eye on it
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| 10:45 | <Lns> err Roasted_ ^^
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| 10:46 | <Roasted_> Lns, that's pretty much what I've done... but it sounds like a lot changed from 9.10 to 10.04, so I'm not sure how relevant a 8.04 guide will be
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| 10:46 | <Lns> Roasted_ like what's changed? The tools themselves?
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| 10:47 | <Roasted_> the way the config files are laid out, from what I've read.
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| 10:47 | <Lns> Really? Well that's too bad..
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| 10:48 | Either way I'm sure a few minor adjustments and you'd be good to go.
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| 10:48 | Can't be that different, it's low-level stuff we're talking about, not a whole lot Ubuntu specific
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| 10:48 | <jtwood> Roasted:/usr/share/doc/ifenslave-2.6/examples/two_hotplug_ethernet
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| 10:48 | I followed that exactly for bonding...worked like a charm...just adjust to your situation
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| 10:52 | <Roasted_> if I bond, and both interfaces get the same MAC address, woudlnt that cause an isue with the switch?
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| 10:58 | <jtwood> Roasted_: Depends on the bonding type and the switch config how its all handled...no pro on it myself
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| 10:58 | <Roasted_> this is getting so old
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| 10:58 | this is just not working
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| 10:58 | maybe I'll just split the lab on each nic and be done with it
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| 10:59 | <alkisg> That will cause you more headache
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| 11:01 | <Roasted_> seems like a more legit issue at this point
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| 11:08 | <Lns> roasted_, read the docs, they explain.
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| 11:12 | <Roasted_> Lns, I have.
| |
| 11:12 | Many a time.
| |
| 11:12 | It's k. I'll just sling it off one port. This headache needs to go away.
| |
| 11:13 | <Lns> lol k
| |
| 11:18 | * alkisg would love to test fat clients with 3 gbps speed on the server :) | |
| 11:19 | <Roasted_> I'd love to test fat clients with bonding :)
| |
| 11:19 | but lol.
| |
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| 11:34 | * Lns waves to vagrantc | |
| 11:34 | <Lns> alkisg, with 3Gbps on the server, why would you need fat clients at all? ;)
| |
| 11:35 | * alkisg didn't get that one :) | |
| 11:35 | <alkisg> To have 1 gbps mean network disk transfer rate for each client
| |
| 11:35 | Ah, you mean as opposed to thin?
| |
| 11:36 | <Lns> right
| |
| 11:36 | <alkisg> Nah, even with gigabit for each client, fats are better
| |
| 11:36 | <Lns> I mean, with 3Gbit/sec, you could even use Flash! =p
| |
| 11:36 | <alkisg> Nope, not full screen.
| |
| 11:37 | And also no googleearth etc
| |
| 11:37 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I'd like to see that too, 3gbps on server, and gigabit to thin clients, with the image stored in RAM :)
| |
| 11:37 | <alkisg> And also no HD video for more than 1 client due to *cpu*!!!
| |
| 11:38 | <Lns> boo
| |
| 11:38 | how easy is it to enable NX in ltsp? I never really tried before
| |
| 11:38 | <alkisg> highvoltage: isn't the image in ram anyway, after the first client boots?
| |
| 11:38 | * Lns wonders how that would work in a LAN environment | |
| 11:38 | <alkisg> thin chroot = 200 Mb, easily cached...
| |
| 11:39 | (or 500 uncompressed)
| |
| 11:39 | <vagrantc> booting with NFS it's something more like 20MB
| |
| 11:39 | because you don't read every single file
| |
| 11:40 | i remember someone doing some posts to the debian-edu list comparing
| |
| 11:40 | <alkisg> I don't think nbd reads every single file
| |
| 11:40 | <highvoltage> alkisg: well, parts of it will of course end up in system cache
| |
| 11:40 | <alkisg> Just the needed "sectors"
| |
| 11:40 | <vagrantc> ah, true enough
| |
| 11:40 | * Lns is still very happy that debian ltsp defaults to nfs | |
| 11:40 | * vagrantc is happy that some people are happy with that decision | |
| 11:41 | <alkisg> Openoffice with nfs starts in 30 secs, with nbd uncompressed in 20, with nbd compressed in 5
| |
| 11:41 | <vagrantc> it's been a lot of work to fight against the NBD hegemony :)
| |
| 11:41 | <Lns> The less complex, and the more stable components you use..well that's the debian way =)
| |
| 11:41 | <vagrantc> yeah, i've noticed fatclients being a bit on the slow side
| |
| 11:42 | <Lns> you could always use a hard drive on the client to cache the software... ;)
| |
| 11:42 | <alkisg> Unfortunately I haven't found any good solution for that
| |
| 11:43 | <vagrantc> that kind of defeats the simplicity goal
| |
| 11:43 | <alkisg> The best thing would be an nfs client with a very big persistent local cache
| |
| 11:43 | I've seen a paper about such an implementation
| |
| 11:43 | But they didn't maintain the software after the paper, that tells me a lot :)
| |
| 11:43 | <Lns> vagrantc, was just joking heh
| |
| 11:44 | I mean, honestly sometimes I think that LTSP fatclients defeat the overall purpose of LTSP.. not to knock it *at all* but sometimes I wonder that the goals are too close to having normal workstations
| |
| 11:45 | <alkisg> Lns, maintaining normal workstations? Really?
| |
| 11:45 | <Lns> alkisg, sure..I mean, you could put together some rsync / ssh magic and have centrally administered (but still full-blown) linux workstations
| |
| 11:45 | either way you require bigger and faster and more power hungry hardware
| |
| 11:45 | <alkisg> Compared to the LTSP way, maintaining 1 chroot, with central authentication, nfs homes, etc, etc, I'd never maintain local installations if I had just a gigabig switch
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| 11:46 | <evil_root> Lns.... your crazy
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> Lns, rsync 30 Gb installations => 2 days to sync 20 workstations
| |
| 11:46 | Wouldn't work
| |
| 11:46 | <Lns> alkisg, rsync doesn't copy every bit, it copies the changed bits
| |
| 11:46 | <alkisg> Yup, but it reads every bit
| |
| 11:47 | Both on the source and the target
| |
| 11:47 | (unless you get risky and only check timestamps etc)
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| 11:47 | <Lns> 30gb installs??
| |
| 11:47 | <alkisg> But why rsync, if a gigabit network disk is *faster*? What's the point?
| |
| 11:48 | Good fat client labs boot in 12 seconds over the network, while locally they need 40
| |
| 11:48 | (actual benchmark)
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| 11:49 | <Lns> alkisg, they won't boot in 12 seconds if you turn them all on at the same time ;)
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| 11:49 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I wish people could understand that :)
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> I did. They did boot in 12
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| 11:49 | <highvoltage> Lns: why not?
| |
| 11:50 | <alkisg> On the server the nbd image gets cached, so it's served from RAM, so the seek times are very very small
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| 11:50 | <highvoltage> Lns: well, maybe not on nfs ;)
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| 11:50 | <Lns> lol
| |
| 11:50 | I'm not really talking about boot-up time here
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| 11:50 | <alkisg> Opening apps has the same speed benefits
| |
| 11:50 | It's not just boot time
| |
| 11:51 | <Lns> I'm saying that hardware-wise, you get very few of the advantages of ltsp if you require locally running apps
| |
| 11:51 | <vagrantc> it takes a huge amount of maintenance overhead just to maintain the hardware...
| |
| 11:51 | let alone the software
| |
| 11:51 | Lns: running "apt-get install FOO" in one place to update an entire network seems like about 90% of the advantage of LTSP
| |
| 11:52 | <Lns> http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/143893
| |
| 11:52 | vagrantc, i agree that this is probably the killer-feature of ltsp
| |
| 11:52 | that as well as the low-power (or even recycled computer) benefits
| |
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| 11:53 | <alkisg> Lns, can you tell a teacher to learn puppet and apply a gconf setting to all the workstations with it? I wouldn't
| |
| 11:53 | While with ltsp he can do it with gconf-editor
| |
| 11:53 | <Lns> alkisg, no, and I also wouldn't tell a teacher to learn the ins and outs of LTSP ;)
| |
| 11:53 | a normal teacher isn't going to understand gconf either
| |
| 11:53 | <alkisg> There are 200 teachers so far using LTSP here, so I guess it's doable
| |
| 11:54 | <Lns> alkisg, right - using, not administering
| |
| 11:54 | <alkisg> They installed it themselves
| |
| 11:54 | <highvoltage> Lns: compared to "using" puppet, it's very easy :)
| |
| 11:54 | <Lns> highvoltage, =p
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| 11:54 | alkisg, you have very open minded and technically savvy teachers! =)
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| 11:54 | <highvoltage> (not that I'm against configuration managers)
| |
| 11:55 | <alkisg> Automating LTSP is much, much easier than automating standalone installations
| |
| 11:55 | We created GUI wizards for the most common tasks in a few days
| |
| 11:56 | "I want to build a fat chroot" => "I'm in a high school so install the appropriate edu apps" => wait 5 hours => ready
| |
| 11:56 | To do that in 20 workstations it would require 20 hours of working, not waiting
| |
| 11:57 | <Lns> alkisg, oh come on =p you can use cluster-ssh along with a local repository and do it in 5 minutes.
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| 11:57 | <alkisg> You can install ubuntu with cluster ssh?
| |
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| 11:57 | <alkisg> Because the fat chroot saves you from installing the os locally
| |
| 11:58 | <Lns> alkisg, I was referring to "I'm in a high school so install the appropriate edu apps"
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> On the fat chroot
| |
| 11:58 | <highvoltage> you shouldn't ever use clusterssh, really
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| 11:58 | <Lns> highvoltage, ?
| |
| 11:59 | <mgariepy> alkisg, preseed + preseed/late_command
| |
| 11:59 | <highvoltage> Lns: stgraber has this philipsophy of keeping everything in configuration managers and avoiding undocumented local changes if you have to administer many machines. it works. clusterssh encourage you to do things manually and implement local hacks that you'll lose if you have to re-install
| |
| 12:00 | <Lns> highvoltage, what local hacks?
| |
| 12:00 | <alkisg> mgariepy: even if I gave them a ghost-like disk which would be installed without asking anything at all, I'd still need to update the result. And more significantly, I fail to see the benefits.
| |
| 12:00 | <Lns> And you could always have a standard image
| |
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| 12:01 | <highvoltage> Lns: anything that's not in your configuration manager
| |
| 12:02 | <Lns> Personally I was drawn to LTSP initially because of 1) central administration and 2) low power terminals. I guess I just never got used to configuring localapps enough to be able to switch between them and remote apps - for instance, firefox always complained when I'd run it as a localapp, then a remote app
| |
| 12:02 | Maybe I'm just missing something dumb
| |
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| 12:03 | <Lns> but it really put a damper on the central-administration aspect of it because there was a big problem when you go back and forth
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| 12:03 | * alkisg never uses localapps, too complicated to automate for the teachers | |
| 12:04 | <Roasted_> so if I back out of trying to set up bonding, and I'm back to 1 NIC and I can't ping at all....
| |
| 12:04 | <highvoltage> local apps is useful for stuff like gcompris where each instance of the program can easily push up a cpu core usage to 100% and keep it there for the whole session
| |
| 12:05 | also for multimedia
| |
| 12:05 | <alkisg> Localapps are really fine when there's a sysadmin nearby.
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| 12:06 | You can get the most out of your hardware with them
| |
| 12:07 | <abeehc> word i agree
| |
| 12:12 | <Lns> alkisg, there is also the headache of maintaining multiple chroots
| |
| 12:13 | <alkisg> Lns: why?
| |
| 12:13 | A fat chroot can boot thin and fat clients,
| |
| 12:13 | nvidia clients, non-nvidia clients,
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| 12:13 | ...you name it
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| 12:14 | <Lns> but not cross-arch
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| 12:14 | (for obvious reasons)
| |
| 12:14 | <alkisg> That's true for thin clients too
| |
| 12:14 | <highvoltage> cross-arch is in my experience pretty rare anyway
| |
| 12:14 | <alkisg> But yup, we always use 32bit chroots here
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| 12:14 | No other arch
| |
| 12:14 | <Lns> see, 64-bit is just going to saturate more and more, then what?
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| 12:14 | you can't hold out forever
| |
| 12:15 | <alkisg> There will be some time period where some clients will have e.g. 8 Gb RAM and some others will be 32 bit (non amd64 capable)
| |
| 12:15 | At that time we'll still be using i386 chroots, maybe with a pae kernel
| |
| 12:15 | After that period we'll just switch to amd64 chroots
| |
| 12:15 | Again no multiple arches
| |
| 12:16 | <vagrantc> unfortunately, a lot of thin client hardware can't even run a pae kernel ... requires some syslinux magic to get it to select the correct kernel
| |
| 12:17 | <highvoltage> alkisg: I guess the more likely scenario for multiple arches is the proliferation of cheap (and capable) ARM based devices
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| 12:17 | <vagrantc> and it's fairly easy to cross-build arm.
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> highvoltage: I agree. In any case there's no difference between thin+fat there, 2 chroots will be needed in both cases
| |
| 12:17 | <highvoltage> alkisg: *nod*
| |
| 12:17 | <alkisg> I hope by that time we'll be able to manage the chroots with vbox
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| 12:17 | (instead of console)
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| 12:17 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: it is expensive though
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| 12:18 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: expensive?
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| 12:18 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: sorry, my head is short-circuiting, I was thinking of someone cross-compiling a kernel earlier this week
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| 12:19 | alkisg: virtualbox? why?
| |
| 12:19 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: on debian, you can just: apt-get install qemu-user-static ; ltsp-build-client --arch armel
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| 12:19 | a little slow to build, but way easier than having a dedicated arm server
| |
| 12:20 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: yes that's quite cool
| |
| 12:20 | <alkisg> highvoltage: the chroot + console concept is difficult for the teachers
| |
| 12:20 | * Lns can't wait for gnome3 to be released..tried it the other night and it is soo beautiful | |
| 12:21 | <alkisg> Now we provide them with wizards to select apps while creating the chroot
| |
| 12:21 | But to add an app, or some gconf setting on the chroot, it's difficult for them
| |
| 12:21 | So in the future I want to try to make the LTSP chroot bootable with vbox,
| |
| 12:21 | so that they can configure it graphically
| |
| 12:21 | Or, bootable directly on a client (e.g. with an external usb disk)
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| 12:22 | <highvoltage> alkisg: hmm... perhaps some software-center integration could fix that better
| |
| 12:22 | <alkisg> Example - I boot an arm client with an external usb disk with btrfs + compression
| |
| 12:22 | Then I get that usb disk, put it on the server, and directly export the whole disk as an nbd cow image
| |
| 12:22 | Done, arm lab ready
| |
| 12:22 | With no console whatsoever
| |
| 12:23 | And this way each teacher can even maintain his own nbd image, like if it was a normal installation. No additional knowledge needed.
| |
| 12:28 | <Lns> i want to make the shell "cool" again ;) I hate hearing about all this extra work because people are afraid to learn it
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| 12:29 | <Roasted_> If I remove bonding, is there anything specific to do besides changing my interface file?
| |
| 12:29 | <Lns> roasted_ just reverse the steps you took to (try to) enable it
| |
| 12:30 | unload modules, etc.
| |
| 12:30 | <Roasted_> unload modules?
| |
| 12:30 | all I did was create /etc/modprobe.d/bonding.conf and edit my interface file, oh, and install ifenslave
| |
| 12:30 | Ive reversed that yet I cant get any network connectivity via static anymore
| |
| 12:31 | * vagrantc recommends etckeeper | |
| 12:31 | <highvoltage> Roasted_: do you see your interface in 'ifconfig'? does it have the right address? what does 'route' give you? is your gateway configured correctly? what's in /etc/resolv.conf? can you resolve hostnames?
| |
| 12:31 | <vagrantc> not that it will fix your problems now ... but in the future ... amazing to be able to see what is actually different
| |
| 12:31 | <highvoltage> Roasted_: if you describe the symptoms of "what's not working" then it would be easier to pinpoint what went wrong
| |
| 12:32 | <Roasted_> highvoltage, yes, I see it in ifconfig. I have the static IP I assigned it. I can't ping hostnames or IP addresses. I can only ping myself.
| |
| 12:32 | highvoltage, the info I have in my interface file is the backup I made of it when it worked BEFORE I even began tinkering with bonding.
| |
| 12:33 | is it possible rebooting twice could have fixed it?
| |
| 12:33 | I rebooted once, nothin. rebooted again just because, and I pinged??
| |
| 12:33 | <alkisg> Roasted_: if you have a dhcp server available, try: sudo dhclient eth0
| |
| 12:33 | This will tell you if it's a simple "/etc/network/interfaces" configuration problem, or something more
| |
| 12:34 | <Roasted_> alkisg, well, this box has 2 nics, and I let 1 interface be dhcp. I was able to get an IP via dhcp.
| |
| 12:34 | give me a second tho, I want to reboot a few more times and see if it continually works
| |
| 12:34 | that just strikes me odd a 2nd reboot was fine
| |
| 12:35 | haa. 3rd reboot, not fine.
| |
| 12:35 | why did I ever try bonding...
| |
| 12:36 | nevermind. seems as if eth0 didnt come up automatically. a reboot of the network service brought it back.
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| 12:52 | <Lns> sounds like someone got in a bit over their head ;)
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| 14:33 | <dan_l> Is it possible to execute a script on a fatclient from a remote host?
| |
| 14:34 | hello good people! Is it possible to execute a script on a fatclient from a remote host?
| |
| 14:35 | * vagrantc heard you the first time | |
| 14:35 | <vagrantc> dan_l: i gotta run though. be patient, and someone will eventually respond
| |
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| 14:36 | <dan_l> thnx
| |
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| 14:44 | Nick change: xavier_brochard -> xavierb | |
| 14:49 | <xavierb> dan_l: what do you want to do?
| |
| 14:53 | <dan_l> Somewhat complex. We have a web based authentication app which tests a users library card and upon authentication we want to execute a script to copy an appropriate set of files for the user.
| |
| 14:53 | The scripst must be executed in the fatclient space
| |
| 14:56 | <xavierb> You want a web browser to launch a script on the localhost? sorry, I didn't even know it was feasible
| |
| 14:59 | <dan_l> Not a web browser.
| |
| 14:59 | We connect to a webeserver and launch a login screen on the client using ltsp-remotehosts.
| |
| 15:00 | When the login is accepted we can launch a script on the ltsp server successfully but
| |
| 15:00 | we need to lauch it on the client
| |
| 15:03 | <xavierb> this wouldn't be different from the script to shutdown a client from the server
| |
| 15:04 | <dan_l> Sounds correct - I don't know about this script. Can you put me in that direction?
| |
| 15:07 | <xavierb> I remember about some discussion about that sort of script on the ltsp-discuss mailing list. Nothing more sorry.
| |
| 15:08 | <dan_l> thnx
| |
| 15:14 | <xavierb> dan_l: I'v found something from august 2007! look for "I need to remote reboot a LTSP 5 client" subject in the archives
| |
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| 15:31 | <dan_l> xavierb: Thanks for that - definitely some clueful stuff
| |
| 15:37 | <xavierb> dan_l: There was something more recent and more interesting, but I can't find it
| |
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| 19:20 | <alkisg> [14:59] *** [dan_l] We connect to a webeserver and launch a login screen on the client using ltsp-remotehosts.
| |
| 19:20 | ===> what is ltsp-remotehosts?
| |
| 19:22 | Also, those files that you're copying go to the user home directory? Then you can also run the script on the server, as it does has access to the user home dir...
| |
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| 00:00 | --- Fri Mar 25 2011 | |