IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 28 March 2011 (all times are UTC)

00:00	<alkisg> Distro/version?
00:10	<mrcarrot> this will probably be needed to be done i two schools, one running debian lenny another one ubuntu maverick
00:13	<alkisg> For lenny, you'd need to modify your dhcpd.conf to point to a different root-path
00:13	(lenny? not squeeze?)
00:14	For maverick, you'd need to modify /etc/inetd.conf to assign a different port for the image, your dhcpd.conf to point to the different chroot in $TFTP/ltsp/i386-special/pxelinux.0, and your pxelinux.cfg/default to have a different nbdroot=server:port number
00:15	inetd/pxelinux should be automatically fixed if you run ltsp-update-image --force, that will generate all the port info
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00:15	<alkisg> In all cases, if you don't need a special kernel but only a special chroot, you could modify nothing, and just use pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address files
00:25	<mrcarrot> okay, thanks
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02:03	<NeonLicht> I have an LTSP thin client on a private network (192.168.0.x) where the LTSP server is its gateway. I want the client to connect via XDMCP to an X server outside the local network (real Internet IP). I have set up the lts.conf file appropriately. What else do I need to do on the LTSP server (and gateway) to enable the XDMCP protocol to be forwarded? (I use shorewall as the firewall.) Ideas, please?
02:07	<alkisg> You're sure you want to use xdmcp over the internet? It's completely unsafe, unencrypted etc
02:07	<sep> regular dns masqerading i guess
02:08	<alkisg> Why not NX or some other "over ssh" solution?
02:10	<sep> x2go is another
02:11	or use a xdmcp over a vpn
02:13	<mnemoc> hi, can one pass env vars to SCREEN_xx=foo from lts.conf ?
02:17	<alkisg> mnemoc: example? what do you need?
02:22	<mnemoc> i'm making an SCREEN script to run dosemu and would like to tell it what to run without making several different screen scripts
02:22	it's basically what "kind" of station it is
02:23	<alkisg> Anything you set in lts.conf will be available in the environment of the screen script
02:24	<mnemoc> that's nice :)
02:24	<alkisg> E.g. RDP_OPTIONS=xx ==> the rdesktop screen script has access to that without doing anything
02:24	<mnemoc> thanks!
02:24	so I just add FOO_bar=..
02:25	<alkisg> Yes. Also just an idea, why not directly send freedos with pxe instead of linux+dosemu?
02:25	(not sure if that suits you, just an idea, you decide)
02:25	<mnemoc> need someone to bind usb printers to LPT ports :(
02:25	dosemu doesn't support (afaiui) usb
02:26	err, freedos
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02:30	<mnemoc> but it's the first step for a transition before porting the stuff to run natively on linux
02:34	<alkisg> I think there are some usb drivers available for dos, but if you got it working with dosemu, don't even look into them, too much trouble
02:35	<mnemoc> OT: is ldm supposed to honor XRANDR_MODE_01=800x600 ? 1360x768 on a 7" display is not nice :p
02:36	<alkisg> Hmm seems like the man page is wrong there
02:36	Try XRANDR_MODE_0=800x600
02:37	If it works, file a bug about correcting the man page
02:38	<mnemoc> yes, worked. launchpad?
02:41	<alkisg> Yes
02:44	<mnemoc> it was my fault, the man page in karmic (suggested by google) says XRANDR_MODE_01, but changing the url to use maverick's it is fine
02:45	I wonder why I don't have `man lts.conf` on the server...
02:49	<alkisg> sudo apt-get install ltsp-docs
02:49	<mnemoc> doh
02:50	.oO(how did I miss that? facepalm)o
02:50	thanks :)
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05:30	<mgariepy> good morning everyone
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06:19	<NeonLicht> Yes, alkisg, I am sure I want to use XDMCP over the Internet. I don't want to use NX.
06:25	<Gadi> NeonLicht: if you're not going to tunnel XDMCP, you are in for a lot of router config
06:26	the greeter is a :177 request in one direction, and the X11 packets are a :60XX in the other direction (where XX = display num, usually)
06:26	so, all the NAT'ing gets in the way
06:26	<NeonLicht> I can tunnel XDMCP, Gadi, of course. Any documentation I can check, please?
06:28	<Gadi> hmm... nothing off the top of my head, but that's pretty much the whol story
06:28	<NeonLicht> OK, Gadi, thank you. :)
06:29	<Gadi> usually, the greeter is 177/udp
06:29	while the X11 traffic is tcp
06:29	of course, ssh -X does all this for you
06:29	:)
06:29	or, at least the X11 part
06:30	if you use LDM + LDM_DIRECTX you can limit your headache to just the 60XX stuff
06:33	<NeonLicht> That's what I was asking you for some docs to read about. Atm I have startx -query the.remote.host. I need to know what to replace that with to tunnel the X traffic.
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06:43	<Gadi> NeonLicht: ah, well there are lots of docs on lots of topic in the world :) startx -query <ip> will request an XDMCP greeter (on 177/udp) from <ip>. If you use LDM, LDM runs on the client, collects un/pw and runs: ssh -X user@server (equivalent)
06:43	if you do not use LDM_DIRECTX, you will have no problem, as X is tunneled thru ssh
06:43	if you DO use LDM_DIRECTX, then the X11 packets go directly back to the client outside the tunnel
06:44	and there must be a direct route from the server to the client
06:44	<NeonLicht> OK, Gadi, thank you.
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08:35	<knipwim> what's the meaning of ldm-trunk-old and ltsp-trunk-old?
08:38	<vagrantc> knipwim: i updated the bzr repository format, and it was easier to upgrade the format locally, move the launchpad mirrors out of the way, and push a "new" branch.
08:39	newer versions of ubuntu are built for i686 vs. i486 or i586?
08:39	or is it just the default kernel?
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09:37	<Roasted__> Question. I'm trying to launch LikewiseOpen on my server within the chroot itself for a little experiment to get rid of double authenticating that I currently have to do on my fat clients. I'm using a 64 bit server, but 32 bit chroot. When I try to launch the i386.sh file, it says it's not the proper architecture. If I launch the 64 bit.sh file, it'll begin to launch, but the dependencies error out, citing that my dependencies aren't the right architecture.
09:38	I find this strange because with Libre Office, I was able to install just fine, even though that was a .deb file I just ran dpkg on in terminal and this is a .sh. But even still, I HAD to have the same architecture of Libre Office as my chroot, but it worked.
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11:04	<vagrantc> Roasted__: where are you running the commands from?
11:04	Roasted__: they're definitely running as fat clients?
11:05	Roasted__: what hostname do they get?
11:05	<Roasted__> I'm in the chroot as root and I run ./Likewiseblahblah.sh
11:05	vagrantc, ^
11:06	They are definitely fat clients. They have 896 RAM and the image is a fat client image I built.
11:06	<vagrantc> Roasted__: where are you in the chroot?
11:06	Roasted__: i.e. chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ?
11:06	<Roasted__> yes
11:06	well
11:06	not entirely
11:07	<vagrantc> oh-ho!
11:07	<Roasted__> opt ltsp i386 home administrator
11:07	<vagrantc> ah.
11:07	<Roasted__> I put the .sh in the administrator profile
11:07	same way I did libre office
11:07	chmod +x to it and run it accordingly
11:07	and libre office worked fine
11:07	<vagrantc> a masochist
11:07	<Roasted__> a what?
11:07	<vagrantc> seems like it would be less painful to go with the defaults until you understand all the moving parts.
11:08	<Roasted__> what defaults
11:08	<vagrantc> /opt/ltsp/i386, for example
11:08	<Roasted__> I'm not sure how it makes a difference if I'm in i386 or the admin home directory
11:08	I launched libre office from admin
11:08	worked fine
11:09	<vagrantc> Roasted__: my guess is your i386.sh script is just not smart enough to realize it's actually running in 32-bit userland
11:09	<Roasted__> that's quite possible
11:09	it does bark at me about me being on 64
11:09	whcih is the server
11:09	I'm not even sure if adding the fat chroot to the domain will work
11:09	:/
11:10	thin clients work perfectly for our environment, but fat clients are a bear in some regard
11:10	<vagrantc> and can't you install libreoffice with apt-get ... instead of running some random binary?
11:10	<Roasted__> libre office I installed from .deb, and yes I could apt-get it if I added the ppa
11:11	but I didn't realie it had a PPA till I went the other route
11:11	but libre office came in a 32 bit package
11:11	I did sudo dpkg -i *.deb and bam it took off
11:11	<vagrantc> well, sounds like with likewise and thin clients, you just have to configure a single machine to authenticate (the server), whereas with fatclients you have to configure each individual machine at boot time...
11:11	<Roasted__> yep
11:11	and from how it sounds... the fat client design would go against what I'm trying to do
11:11	which... screws me
11:12	<vagrantc> why can't you just automate the configuration scripts at boot time?
11:12	<Roasted__> I mean it works, but I just don't understand how it allows me to log into the box as a domain user yet when I try to get on a windows file server its like, LOL WAIT who are you?
11:12	to do what?
11:12	re-join the domain each time they boot up?
11:12	<vagrantc> what's so wrong with that?
11:12	<Roasted__> we're talking about a windows domain here
11:12	I smell a recipe for disaster
11:12	<vagrantc> what's so wrong with that?
11:13	<Roasted__> I read that with linux clients, they don't "remove" themselves from the domain unless you go through a certain process.
11:13	As a result, linux clients often get duplicated on the domain tree
11:13	I will not make this harder than it needs to be, and I hate to introduce a massive headache to the domain if that's what happens
11:13	<vagrantc> cna you write a script that checks if it's joined, removes itself, and re-joins?
11:14	<Roasted__> I suppose I could, but this setup is also launching tomorrow.
11:14	<vagrantc> there is no way to say "hi there, it's me again" ?
11:14	<Roasted__> From what I've read iwth how fat clients work, it doesn't work like that.
11:14	<vagrantc> seems like you'd best not launch with fatclients
11:14	<Roasted__> In that they are like a live environments.
11:14	You would think, but I have 2gb of RAM in my server and 0 dollars.
11:14	what am I to do? :P
11:14	<vagrantc> like a livecd, sure.
11:14	how many clients?
11:14	<Roasted__> 30
11:15	I think the design of fat clients vs the design of likewise and domain joining is just working against each other.
11:15	<vagrantc> it's fairly efficient at sharing ram ... i.e. running 30 instances of libreoffice takes up less than 30 times the ram...
11:16	<Roasted__> I'm running 9 thin clients in another school.
11:16	and I come DAMN close to 2gb of RAM when they're used at full tilt.
11:16	That's at th emiddle school, where they don't utilize what this lab will here at the HS.
11:16	In short, 2gb of RAM on thin clients @ 30 clients for what we're going to do... instant disaster.
11:17	<vagrantc> how powerful are the clients?
11:17	<Roasted__> thin clients are just not an option, is what it truly dwindles down to.
11:17	2.8ghz P4, 1gb RAM
11:17	<vagrantc> you could set up a couple of the clients as servers... :)
11:17	<Roasted__> oh boy
11:17	<vagrantc> round-robin your login servers...
11:18	<Roasted__> I probably could
11:18	<vagrantc> but fatclients would make more sense, if you can resolve the likewise problems
11:18	<Roasted__> 1 box per row
11:18	I'm not convinced it's a likewise problem :P
11:18	<vagrantc> i'm not convinced it's not
11:18	<Roasted__> I just think the way the fat client interacts with the server that's joined via likewise is handled in a way that won't fly.
11:18	thin clients work
11:18	perfectly
11:18	absolutely perfectly
11:18	<vagrantc> the "you haven't yet figured out how to get likewise to work in this environment" problem
11:19	<Roasted__> so from that I have to figure out, what's different
11:19	well
11:19	one is fat, one is thin
11:19	okay, what's up with fat
11:19	well fats relationship with the server is different than the thin client server
11:19	okay, etc...
11:19	<vagrantc> Roasted__: you could boot the fat clients in a way that maintains state ... where does likewise store it's configuration?
11:20	<Roasted__> I'm not entirely sure, but there's a folder in /opt
11:20	I assume that's of some relevance
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11:21	<vagrantc> effectively, if you can figure out where it stores the configuration, and you can mount those files at boot before it starts likewise, there's no difference between running it on a disked machine vs. fat.
11:21	<Roasted__> what do you mean, mount those files?
11:21	<vagrantc> Roasted__: likewise stores configuration somewhere, yes?
11:21	<Roasted__> yes
11:21	I'm just curious because when I hear mount I think physical device
11:22	<vagrantc> Roasted__: if you boot with the configured environment, it doesn't matter weather you boot from disk or from the network, right?
11:22	<Roasted__> (I suppose)
11:22	I think I follow
11:22	<abeehc> I stil haven't wrapped my head around how likewise would work on a fat client
11:23	<Roasted__> I'll have to set up a test environment with 32b server and 32b client
11:23	and see how it works
11:23	<vagrantc> i wouldn't recommend doing this, but you could have a separate / filesystem for each thin client ... and it would be no different from booting from disk, really.
11:23	<Roasted__> here's the one thing I don't get
11:23	<vagrantc> er, fat client
11:24	<Roasted__> I have my fat client SERVER on the domain
11:24	the server itself is joined to the windows domain
11:24	I don't get how the fat clients let me log in as a domain user, yet I can't authenticate to our windows file server on the fly.
11:24	I mean, I can if I put the creds in.
11:24	<abeehc> the clients use ssh to auth
11:24	that uses the server's auth function
11:24	* vagrantc nods to abeehc
11:24	<Roasted__> But the thin clients auto-negotiate based on the domain user logged in.
11:24	<abeehc> then once your logged in you are scre3ed
11:24	<Roasted__> wait
11:24	<abeehc> cause the domain won't know who you are
11:24	<Roasted__> oh
11:24	<abeehc> and won't wanna give you kerb tickets
11:25	as far as I know
11:25	<Roasted__> so its as if the server has severe short term memory loss
11:25	<vagrantc> abeehc has got it.
11:25	<Roasted__> you log in, it says hi
11:25	once you're in, if prompted it says hi again
11:25	<abeehc> i think this problem will stop me from pushing fat clients for a while again
11:25	<Roasted__> because it has no idea you already established... hi
11:25	<abeehc> yeah
11:25	<vagrantc> Roasted__: so fatclients work using some ugly hacks ....
11:25	<abeehc> so like i was saying yesterday
11:25	you could try and manually get the ticket via kinit ?i dunno
11:25	<Roasted__> abeehc, well I can authenticate just fine. I just have to do it manually.
11:25	<abeehc> kinit
11:25	<Roasted__> abeehc, the only thing I'm trying to do now is default the workgroup
11:25	because it comes up with my username as the logged in name
11:26	<vagrantc> Roasted__: essentially, it logs into the server via ssh, copies the username/group information over to the client, and then starts running applications as that user...
11:26	<Roasted__> but workgroup says workgroup
11:26	I want to default it to our domain, so that way it comes up steve_jobs, Domain - JOBS, and the password is just blank. type it in, BAM done.
11:26	easy
11:26	not optimal, but easy
11:26	<abeehc> i don't think you'll be able to do that easily
11:26	<Roasted__> we'll know in a few seconds here
11:26	<abeehc> not sure never tried, i prefer to avoid the prompt
11:26	<Roasted__> as I changed workgroup in smb.conf to solanco
11:26	I prefer it too
11:26	but I'm so stuck
11:27	I can't run thin in this lab, and it deploys tomorrow
11:27	<abeehc> i'd bs suprised if smb.conf affects nautilus
11:27	<Roasted__> my boss could care less about the fact they have to log in a 2nd time
11:27	which in reality
11:27	is NOT a big deal
11:27	it truly isn't
11:27	<abeehc> ok same for typing the domain
11:27	not a big deal
11:27	<Roasted__> but I'd like to streamline it as much as possible
11:27	well we're going to give it a shot now. update image is done and 2 clients booting.
11:27	crossing fingers
11:27	<vagrantc> the more streamlined the less balking at adopting it...
11:28	<Roasted__> I gave a presentation on LTSP and Ubuntu/open source today
11:28	they ate it up
11:28	it was like a 1+2 combo
11:28	<abeehc> you want kerberos to work, man.
11:28	in a windows domain
11:28	* vagrantc wanders off...
11:28	<abeehc> hehe
11:28	<Roasted__> so what are you suggesting I do abeehc ?
11:28	AHAHA
11:28	I DID IT
11:29	it puts in our domain by default
11:29	well that simple little thing makes me feel much better, oddly
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11:30	<Roasted__> abeehc, I just changed the workgroup entry in smb.conf within the fat chroot.
11:30	abeehc, and when the login box comes up, it has username - steve_jobs, domain - JOBS, and password - empty
11:30	type PW, good to go
11:30	glad that was at least somewhat easy to work around
11:30	<abeehc> nomatter what server my clients don't auth :)
11:30	<Roasted__> and it holds the authentication for our other file servers too
11:30	nice
11:30	nic
11:30	e
11:31	<abeehc> and the local services are mounted on login
11:31	but it took me a couple months to get that going
11:31	<Roasted__> but you're on thin
11:31	right
11:31	<abeehc> yep
11:31	<Roasted__> yeah our thin works fine
11:31	but our thin is also 9 clients on a dual core 4gb box
11:31	our server for this lab is a dual core (2 processor) Xeon with 2gb of RAM (oddly)
11:32	here's a server with a ton of 10k drives, nicely spec'd dual proc dual core Xeon but here's 2gb of RAM. how laughable.
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11:35	<abeehc> i guess pam-mount might still work fine with fat clients
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11:40	<Cody_> I had an issue with LTSP not booting properly the other day, the remedy was to insert IPAPPEND3 in the pxelinux.cfg/Default file, however, this makes some clients not boot. Basically it looks like it hangs saying "Error: failed to connect to NBD server."
11:41	Is this fixed in 10.10?
11:43	andrew_ubuntu (~arx@63.78.248.100) joined #ltsp.
11:45	<alkisg> Cody_: it's not clear what was your problem
11:46	<andrew_ubuntu> Having a problem with my clients spontaneously logging out for no apparent reason. This is on an LTSP install using Ubuntu 10.10. They login and everything seems fine then they randomly get booted back to a login screen. Any ideas what is causing this? The only error I can see in the logs is: Mar 28 13:08:51 dmltsp NetworkManager[947]: <error> [1301335731.569884] [nm-manager.c:1317] user_proxy_init(): could not init user settings proxy: (3) Could not
11:46	get owner of name 'org.freedesktop.NetworkManagerUserSettings': no such name
11:46	<alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: how much ram on the clients?
11:47	<Cody_> alkisg, some clients were not booting, after the pxe booting process the client would hang. You actually were the one that suggested the IPAPPEND 3, which worked great, just not with this client. I just renamed default to the mac address of the client removed the IPAPPEND 3 and the client boots just fine. This will have to work for now.
11:47	Thanks!
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11:47	<andrew_ubuntu> Some have 1GB and some have 2GB. The clients I am using are ASUS eee Box's. I also use these same clients at another location (with 100% success but on Ubuntu 9.10).
11:49	<Roasted__> vagrantc, abeehc btw thanks for your help, what you guys said made a lot of sense.
11:51	<alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: what graphics cards do those have?
11:51	<andrew_ubuntu> Intel.... not sure which ones off the top of my head though.
11:51	<alkisg> lspci -nn -k \| grep -A 2 in a local xterm...
11:52	E.g. intels 8xx were working fine in 9.10, but are broken in 10.04
11:53	!bot_are_you_here?
11:59	<andrew_ubuntu> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express Integrated Graphics Controller [8086:27ae] (rev 03)
11:59	Kernel driver in use: i915
11:59	Kernel modules: i915
12:09	<Roasted__> alkisg, about our discussion the other day, Likewise won't install to the fat chroot. It complains about architecture issues, which I think it may be confused on how I'm running a 32b chroot in a 64b environment. Nonetheless, I'm just going to run with it "as is" as I found a way (by editing smb.conf) to default the credentials when I try to authenticate to the windows file server.
12:09	alkisg, so if a user logs in and tries to hit the win file server, their domain name auto populates and the domain auto populates. From there, they put in their PW and bam. I think even elementary students could get the hint then. :P
12:10	alkisg, thereby eliminating the need for the fat chroot to play as nicely on the domain as I wanted. It's not 100% to what I wanted, but it's damn close, and it'll work great. Nonetheless I wanted to throw that your way so you knew where I was with it, in the event another user comes in here asking the same questions.
12:13	<alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: I haven't heard of any specific problems with 945GME. Check in the user's ~/.xsession-errors in case you see any problems there.
12:14	Roasted__: I really, really, really don't care at all about windows domains, but it's nice to hear that you found a workaround
12:22	<andrew_ubuntu> alkisg: lots of errors in the .xsession-errors log, but nothing stands out. plus, they aren't time stamped, so it's hard to tell when they happened. :(
12:22	<alkisg> True... sometimes I clear that file and try to reproduce the error
12:22	<highvoltage> alkisg: :)
12:23	<andrew_ubuntu> that is just what I did. cleared it out and now I am running 'tail -f .xsession-errors' to watch it.
12:23	<alkisg> Most times I've seen that "x crashed and was restarted" problem it was either graphics driver related, or ram related. But with so much ram and with 945 I think your case is different
12:24	<andrew_ubuntu> what is weird though is that I was logged in and had no problems. I am setup as an administrator, of course, and the rest of them are setup as normal users. I did change his login to be an administrator because that is the only thing I can see that is different between me and them.
12:26	<Roasted__> alkisg, I don't care much about them at all either. But to be realistic, for open source alternatives to work, they need to be implemented in baby steps. Removing windows overnight isn't a baby step, so knowing you can adapt it and morph it to work with your setup is a great way to introduce it and move forward.
12:26	alkisg, that at least opens the door for mass adoption of it. So while you and I share the same opinion about windows, it's still an unfortunate hurdle that is great to cross in terms of people adopting the technology.
12:27	<alkisg> Roasted__: the way most open source project work is, people that care about something, contribute to it. I've yet to see an open source project where the developers do things they actually don't care about
12:28	In other words, if noone in ltsp cares about fat clients + AD integration, noone will add any plugins for it
12:28	If you do care, feel free to send patches etc in the mailing list
12:28	<Roasted__> alkisg, I hear ya there. I just wish I could code worth a crap so I could actually "give back"
12:28	alkisg, I've written some how-to guides for implementing linux based alternatives into environments though, such as FOG Computer Imaging.
12:29	Some users I spoke to wouldn't DARE look at FOG once I said it's Linux based, even though it was SO easy to install. So I wrote a 28 page guide on it so users could not only DO it, but understand it too.
12:29	Guess it was the least I could do, since I can't code to save my life.
12:30	<alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: another thing that could be different between 2 accounts is compiz. It's a little complicated, but "composition" is on by default in ubuntu, if the card supports it (yours support it), and one can then disable it from some dialog
12:30	<highvoltage> Roasted__: don't stress about it, one day you might :)
12:30	<Roasted__> highvoltage, I tried, and failed. Coding is what I originally went to school for.
12:30	<alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: There was a nice command that disabled compiz but the bot's down, you might need to look at the logs for it
12:30	<Roasted__> But I dropped out once my brain nearly exploded and got into network security/systems tech.
12:31	<highvoltage> Roasted__: just documenting what you've done already could help many, many users. it could even help someone else who can code write up something. don't sell yourself short!
12:31	<alkisg> Roasted__, nice, is that guide available somewhere?
12:31	<Roasted__> alkisg, I have it in a Google doc. I did submit it to the devs but I'm not sure if they formally added it to their wiki.
12:31	alkisg, let me dig up the google doc.
12:32	<alkisg> Wikis are also good places to put stuff. The ubuntultsp wiki is full of tips written by users here
12:33	<Roasted__> also, I lied. it's 21 pages, not 28 :P
12:33	https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B331nxAPBQEMMTcxY2Y5ZWQtYTI0ZS00YjZmLTk2ZDktNGUxMDFkOGNhOTBk&hl=en
12:34	It really just aims at the basics, creating an image, uploading, and deploying. From there there's far more you can do, but I haven't utilized the additional features enough to really document anything.
12:34	But the imaging process is the core of the program, so I figure it still hits the prime targe.t
12:35	<andrew_ubuntu> alkisg: Thanks. However, I don't think compiz is the problem. Reason being is that the server is on ESXi, so I made a "virtual" client that boots via pxe and it also has the same problems as the "real" clients.
12:35	<Roasted__> And I do have a google doc I've been creating based on my own notes and tips I received here from users. I plan to re-arrange it since my notes are a little scattered, but if it has some relevance out there and other users can benefit from it I would certainly add it to the mix.
12:35	<alkisg> andrew_ubuntu: that rules out any graphics driver problems, then
12:36	<Roasted__> I try to throw a lot of analogies and example scenarios into it which makes for a longer guide for a short amount of info, but it's the best way I learn, and I figure maybe I'm not the only one out there who needs to learn by that method.
12:43	<andrew_ubuntu> alkisg: ya, I know. I am stumped. If changing the user to an administrator doesn't work, I will go back to using Ubuntu 9.10 and see if that makes a difference. BTW, user has been logged in for ~30mins and no .xsessions-errors. The time between random logouts has been about once an hour though, so not holding my breath just yet.
12:44	<alkisg> Just in case, open a local xterm on the client too, and check for any memory leaks or other stress reasons
12:45	<andrew_ubuntu> k. good idea.
12:48	<alkisg> (ltsp-localapps xterm)
12:53	<andrew_ubuntu> ah yes, thank you. I couldn't think of the command.
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13:07	<Roasted__> Is there an easy way to parse "log out" on LTSP fat clients to reboot?
13:09	* alkisg didn't get the question... can you rephrase it?
13:11	<Roasted__> Instead of log out = log out, can I make log out just reboot the client?
13:11	<vagrantc> Roasted__: glad you figured out a workaround for your likewise thingawhazit
13:12	Roasted__: you could drop a hook somewhere
13:12	<Roasted__> vagrantc, yeah. I'm finding another downside to it, though.
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13:12	<vagrantc> probably /usr/share/ldm/rc.d or some such
13:12	<alkisg> If you set LTSP_LOGOUT_ACTION=reboot, it should work
13:12	In an xprop
13:13	With e.g. a logon script
13:13	<Roasted__> vagrantc, if I authenticate to the file server, put in the PW, and then I have access. but if I try to save a doc in libre office DIRECTLY to my mounted network share, it asks me to authenticate AGAIN within libre office.
13:13	<vagrantc> ouch
13:13	<Roasted__> Kind of a pain in the ass, since you basically have to log in 3 times - once initially, once to see what files you have, and another to save.
13:13	no kidding bro
13:13	we GOTTA drop this fat thing and go thin. this will drive everyone nuts.
13:13	but I have zero dollars for RAM, and 2gb won't fly
13:13	but we'll make do for now and get it off the ground and see what happens
13:14	<vagrantc> i'm guessing the server doesn't take the same ram as some of the thin clients ...
13:14	<highvoltage> why not thin clients with some local apps?
13:14	<Roasted__> I'd have to use thin clients with all local apps, I would imagine.
13:14	<vagrantc> highvoltage: same sorts of authentication problems as fat clients
13:14	<Roasted__> vagrantc, what, really?
13:14	:(
13:14	<vagrantc> all local apps = fatclients
13:14	<Roasted__> :(
13:14	<vagrantc> same difference
13:14	<Roasted__> sigh
13:14	<vagrantc> i mean, there are some technical differences, but they are minimal
13:15	<Roasted__> well I guess I didn't find a solution, but a really, really irritating "work around"
13:15	<highvoltage> vagrantc: well, the applications that don't need authentication could run locally (who still saves web pages!?)
13:16	<vagrantc> highvoltage: who downloads something from a browser to open in a word processor? or some other document format?
13:16	if the bug is there, someone will be bitten by it
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13:17	<highvoltage> vagrantc: indeed
13:17	<Roasted__> I may have to look into alternative methods. abeehc was mentioning about some kinit kerberos thing that may fly.
13:17	I just need to get authentication to work with these fatties.
13:17	I thought it'd be okay to log in 1 additional time once we're off the ground, but this is obnoxious.
13:18	but currently what we have is FAR better than a non working lab at all, which is what the previous product left us with, so this will debut tomorrow and we'll see how it goes.
13:18	just some refinements I'd like to make if the possibility is there.
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13:18	<highvoltage> you could have a rw nfs export that's unionfs mounted over /, then configure likewise for that machine, then make the export RO again. wouldn't that work? (you'd have to do this several times, but still)
13:18	<alkisg> It shouldn't be too hard to make fat clients save/restore the "domain join" info
13:19	Just someone needs to look into it and write code for it
13:19	<Roasted__> yeah. this makes me wish I had stayed in programming.
13:19	<alkisg> Well, finding what info likewise stores, and where, isn't really programming
13:20	saving/restoring that info, sure, is, but that would only require a few lines of code
13:20	<Roasted__> yeah, I suppose so
13:20	but what you're suggesting is that these things auto join the domain upon bootup
13:20	right?
13:21	<alkisg> What vagrantc suggested. For you to manually join each client, and for that info to be saved
13:21	So yeah the "restoration" of that info would be on boot
13:21	<Roasted__> but they'd already be joined
13:21	<alkisg> And each client would have a static hostname, to make it easier for windows
13:21	<Roasted__> the info would just be to refresh it
13:21	<alkisg> Just to write some likewise files in /etc
13:22	<Roasted__> okay, I see where you're going with this.
13:22	<alkisg> No need to rejoin
13:22	<Roasted__> join once and done
13:22	<vagrantc> Roasted__: when you reboot a disked machine, what does likewise do? emulate that with a fat client.
13:22	that's the proposal.
13:22	<highvoltage> I don't think that will work
13:22	because AD cares about stuff like hostname
13:22	<Roasted__> if I reboot a disked machine, it retains the same name and domain membership
13:22	<highvoltage> so you'll have to do it at least once for every machine
13:22	<Roasted__> it acts the exact same way as a windows box does
13:22	<alkisg> highvoltage: indeed, that's what we're suggesting
13:22	<Roasted__> which scares me because I think that is very different to a fat client.
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13:23	<alkisg> For roasted to do it manually on each fat client, and have static hostnames
13:23	<highvoltage> yeah that should be easy enough
13:23	<Roasted__> alkisg, would I have to do it to each "fat client" or just edit the LTS.conf for each client?
13:23	<vagrantc> depends on how it's implemented...
13:23	<alkisg> Roasted__: it depends on what info likewise needs, and your script. I guess the easiest way would be to do it on each fat client once
13:24	<Roasted__> alkisg, how? log in as my admin user to the client box and join it to the domain?
13:24	<alkisg> But note that in all this chat, we're missing the most significant info: what likewise needs
13:24	<Roasted__> yeah
13:24	<alkisg> That's why I keep saying that your problem is not ltsp
13:24	Ltsp is about the few lines for save/restore
13:24	The info itself would come from someone that knows likewise, ad etc
13:24	<Roasted__> Part of me thinks it'd just be easier to set up 1 box per row as a thin client server
13:25	<alkisg> It might just be a 5 min work to do this fat/ad thing
13:25	<vagrantc> hrm?
13:25	<Roasted__> yeah
13:25	<alkisg> If you don't try to find the likewise info you wouldn't know
13:25	<Roasted__> So what I need to do is get a hold of likewise and just see what files likewise edits when it joins to the domain
13:26	* vagrantc claps emphatically!
13:26	<Roasted__> but.. that's it
13:26	right
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13:26	<alkisg> Finally, a step in the right way :)
13:26	<vagrantc> :)
13:26	<Roasted__> I want to ask the right questions when I go to them
13:26	so if I figure out what files it edits, then what? Is my conversation with them done?
13:27	* vagrantc wonders if vagrantc will ever make it to an LTSP shindig in the near future
13:27	<alkisg> There's an LTSP shindig in the near future?
13:27	<vagrantc> alkisg: not that i know of :)
13:28	<alkisg> Ah probably my dictionary failed
13:28	<vagrantc> alkisg: it was kind of confusing
13:28	last time was when i hosted the hackfest in 2008? other than meeting up with gadi last summer
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13:29	<vagrantc> the LTSP by-the-sea in maine don't ever seem to work out for me
13:30	<alkisg> I heard lots of lobsters were lost that week
13:31	But what grieves me most is that we'll no longer have LTSPROCKS in ssh :D
13:31	<highvoltage> they were indeed (although none by me)
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13:38	<vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, i'll miss LTSPROCKS
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14:02	<Roasted__> wow
14:02	my time is still a mess, despite the lts.conf setting
14:03	1701, 1503, 1301, etc
14:04	that said, its' beer time. cya guys.
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14:14	<andrew_ubuntu> alkisg: btw... client got booted out to a login again. no .xsession-errors. I give up :((
14:15	<alkisg> Pity :-/
14:16	Also check the local logs on the client if you want
14:16	/var/log/* but locally - logon again, run a local xterm again etc
14:28	<andrew_ubuntu> I probably should just delete that server and start over.
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14:42	<roasted_> alkisg, is all of the documentation available in regard to my time issue with the ltsp man pages? is there any other resources that I can read up on it as much as possible? I just realized this afternoon when I left here my thin client lab is also having issues...
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15:44	<vagrantc> any opinions on which logo should be the new default ldm theme?
15:44	http://www.disklessworkstations.com/ltsp-logo-license.html
15:45	i like the idea of specifying ltsp.org ... but the .org part is so small it kind of just looks stupid.
15:45	i think i'll go with LTSP_final_300.png
15:47	<Roasted__> vagrantc, I'm with you on your train of thought.
15:47	the .org is a nice idea but its implementation in that image doesn't really sell me
15:47	it kind of throws off a bit of balance, as weird as that may sound to say
15:48	both solid images, though ;)
15:48	<vagrantc> all the new logos are 4-8 times as large as the old one... but still reasonably small
15:49	<Roasted__> good deal
15:49	<vagrantc> with full consensus and a quorum of two, i'll push it. :)
15:49	<Roasted__> what image is this exactly? the background to the login screen?
15:49	<vagrantc> the logo above the username
15:50	ubuntu usually defaults to putting their own artwork there ...
15:50	<Roasted__> is this on LTSP gear?
15:50	<vagrantc> gear?
15:50	<Roasted__> yeah - I have one of those white/orangish images
15:50	LTSP hardware
15:50	disklessworkstations hardware
15:50	<vagrantc> ah
15:50	i have no idea
15:50	<Roasted__> ah, I thought you worked for them
15:50	<vagrantc> i'm just making it the new default LDM theme
15:50	<Roasted__> ah
15:50	gotcha
15:50	I dig it
15:51	<vagrantc> no, i maintain LTSP in debian as a volunteer
15:51	<Roasted__> vagrantc, did you catch what I said earlier about my presentation?
15:51	<vagrantc> Roasted__: i skimmed over the backlog...
15:56	<Roasted__> good deal
15:56	the board liked this ltsp idea.
15:57	it'll be interesting to see what decisions they make this summer with our hardware refresh
15:59	vagrantc, is there anything else to know about timezone configs other than timezone=america/new_york in lts.conf? I'm trying to look for info on it but besides that, I'm drawing a blank.
15:59	still trying to battle this time issue...
15:59	<vagrantc> Roasted__: might be case sensitive
16:00	<Roasted__> TIMEZONE=America/New_York is how I had it
16:00	I thought maybe it was TIME_ZONE but when I looked in the pdf it just says TIMEZONE...
16:02	<vagrantc> seems like that ought to work.
16:02	<Roasted__> yeah, I thought so
16:02	its under [Default]
16:02	but each thin and thick client box in my 2 server environments have all whacky times
16:02	* vagrantc uses TIMEZONE=US/Pacific
16:02	<Roasted__> US...
16:03	US/Atlantic?
16:03	<vagrantc> Roasted__: are you running ntp on the server?
16:03	<Roasted__> er
16:03	<vagrantc> Roasted__: maybe
16:03	<Roasted__> US/Eastern
16:03	<vagrantc> yeah
16:03	try that
16:03	<Roasted__> vagrantc, I can't recall if I had NTP on both servers.
16:03	wait I think I did actually
16:03	<vagrantc> Roasted__: make sure you do, and then just point your thin clients to your servers.
16:04	<Roasted__> you just lost me. point my thin clients to what servers? my ltsp servers?
16:05	<vagrantc> TIMESERVER=server
16:05	should work fine.
16:05	if ntp is running on your ltsp servers.
16:05	<Roasted__> I remember putting TIMESERVER=ipoftimeserver before
16:05	<vagrantc> that should work too, as long as you get the ip address right
16:05	<Roasted__> yeah
16:05	<vagrantc> and they can actually get to the ip address
16:05	<Roasted__> BUT that only works if NTP is in
16:06	right?
16:06	<vagrantc> in what?
16:06	<Roasted__> the IP/server plan that is
16:06	installed
16:06	<vagrantc> install it on your LTSP server, point your thin/fat clients to the LTSP server... simple as that.
16:07	oh, and make sure ntpdate is installed in the chroots
16:07	<Roasted__> I'm not sure we're on the same page with "point your thin/fat clients to the LTSP server". Aren't they like that by default?
16:07	<vagrantc> using the TIMESERVER variable in lts.conf
16:07	<Roasted__> ah
16:07	k
16:08	<vagrantc> and it magically, for better or worse, always makes sure the hostname "server" points to the LTSP server it's booted from.
16:08	so TIMESERVER=server should be a safe bet, in case you happen to change your ip address ever.
16:09	<Roasted__> yeah, but it's doubtful. And even if we do, I'll have it documented.
16:09	our timeserver is our backup DC
16:09	so I doubt we'd change it
16:09	<vagrantc> it'd be good to have ntp running on the LTSP servers anyways...
16:09	<Roasted__> so does NTP not run by default?
16:10	<vagrantc> i don't know what ubuntu does
16:10	<Roasted__> oh so it's the OS at this point?
16:11	<vagrantc> it's all software
16:12	if you're running a separate ntp server, you could point directly to that, but you may as well run ntp on all of your LTSP servers so they don't get out of sync... at which point, you may as well point your ltsp clients to use their corresponding LTSP server as their default time server...
16:13	<Roasted__> And by pointing the clients to that you mean putting the NTP IP in the lts.conf on my servers under [Default], right?
16:13	<vagrantc> no, i mean pointing them to the LTSP servers, using the magic hostname "server".
16:15	Roasted__: i think you're overthinking this.
16:15	<Roasted__> I think so too
16:16	<vagrantc> here's another thought ... is your already existing timeserver actually compatible with NTP, or some other time protocol?
16:16	that might be why it's not working to sync with that.
16:16	<Roasted__> I would think so. Granted, it's a Windows server...
16:16	But I'd be shocked if it magically didn't work.
16:16	<vagrantc> make no assumptions!
16:17	find out!
16:17	<Roasted__> Is there a public NTP server I can point to externally?
16:17	to just use as a test?
16:17	<vagrantc> pool.ntp.org
16:18	<Roasted__> TIMESERVER=pool.ntp.org
16:18	?
16:18	<vagrantc> yes
16:19	this is assuming your clients have access to the internet directly
16:19	<Roasted__> they do, through the server
16:20	I would think it would be the server that would hold the most bearing though
16:20	<vagrantc> what server?
16:20	<Roasted__> the LTSP server
16:21	<vagrantc> that's why i keep saying just install ntp on your LTSP servers, and point your thin clients to that...
16:22	because you want your LTSP server to have syncronized time anyways ...
16:23	then you can configure your LTSP server to syncronize time with your other timeserver (if it's compatible with ntp)
16:24	and timeservers are happier when they have a few local machines to sync with anyways... it gives them more data to maintain consistant time with
16:24	anyways... gotta run
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19:55	<roasted_> I think I figured out the time server issue I was having.
19:55	Well, I didn't.
19:55	vagrantc gave me the thought and I just tested it out
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23:27	<mrcarrot> ldm is having a really worthless manual. is anyone able to tell me how i can specify what server a standalone ldm should run ssh against
23:37	<alkisg> LDM wasn't designed with standalone usage in mind
23:37	Try putting a "server" entry in /etc/hosts
23:38	Nick change: leio_ -> leio
00:00	--- Tue Mar 29 2011