IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 May 2019 (all times are UTC)
| 05:04 | <alkisg> vagrantc: heya, I'm thinking that we're not really complying with FHS... /var/lib(/tftpboot) is for preserving application state, and "the specific file hierarchy used to store the data must not be exposed to regular users" ==> which is what we do with all those dirs there
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| 05:04 | And "Users must never need to modify files in /var/lib to configure a package's operation" which is what we do with lts.conf
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| 05:04 | I think this should go to /srv/tftp
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| 05:05 | And then there's /opt/ltsp, while /opt is for installing packages, not for maintaining chroots
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| 05:05 | E.g. docker does use /var/lib for maintaining its images
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| 05:08 | So I'm not sure if /opt/ltsp should go to /var/lib/ltsp or to /srv/ltsp, but I don't think it belongs in /opt
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| 05:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we're just using a long-established tftp path.
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| 05:09 | <alkisg> That's what warren said in 2005, for /tftpboot
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| 05:09 | Then the fedora list told him "no, go for FHS compatibility" :)
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| 05:09 | <vagrantc> which is why we ended up supporting all three
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| 05:10 | <alkisg> And this produces issues like "I modify /srv/tftp/lts.conf, why does it not work" (because /var/lib is used too)
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| 05:10 | Now we're completely breaking compatibility
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| 05:10 | So we can care about doing the right thing only
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| 05:10 | ...which is what? :)
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| 05:10 | <vagrantc> if we're going to break compatibility, sounds like now would be the time to do so
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| 05:11 | <alkisg> We are going to completely break compatibility with ltsp5. Anything that remains the same will only be because it just happens to be the same (name/need/whatever)
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| 05:12 | Even the mailing list now will be only for ltsp5; while for the new one, github issues will be used
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| 05:12 | I'll set up a community project for community wikies and issues (general chat) there
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| 05:13 | OK so... is /srv/tftp the correct place? I think tftpd-hpa defaults to that... and what about /opt/ltsp?
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| 05:14 | <vagrantc> i think /srv/ltsp would make sense, if we're going to break compatibility
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| 05:14 | <alkisg> For the images only, right? While for tftp, we'd use /srv/tftp?
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| 05:15 | Although at some point we might reuse that for http booting; we can still point an apache virtual directory to /srv/tftp then, as it'll be "dual used" both by tftp and http
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| 05:15 | <vagrantc> i think we could serve them out of /srv/ltsp by default ...
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> Or we can go for /srv/ltsp/tftp | /srv/ltsp/arch | /srv/ltsp/images
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| 05:16 | <vagrantc> sounds good to me
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> Serving them from /srv/ltsp would require updating tftpd-hpa configuration; but we don't default to that anyway; so it sounds good to me too
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| 05:16 | <vagrantc> exactly
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| 05:17 | <alkisg> OK great, agreed, I'll switch to that
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| 05:17 | <vagrantc> and it can be symlinked or bind-mounted or whatever if they really need it elsewhere
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> And all of them may need to be accessed via nfs, so we can export /srv/ltsp read-only, if needed
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| 05:18 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 05:18 | <alkisg> E.g. single squashfs file over nfs, etc etc
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| 05:18 | Thanks for the input!
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| 05:18 | <vagrantc> lessdisks used to just have the user reconfigure to serve the kernel right out of the chroot
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| 05:18 | it was one of my small sadnesses moving to ltsp
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> Now we'll default to squashfs, so this isn't doable, unless the user manually switches to nfs
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| 05:19 | <vagrantc> ltsp-update-kernels was always a thorn in my side :)
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 05:19 | *we'll default to squashfs with VMs, not chroots, sorry
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| 05:19 | <vagrantc> i tried to make it better ... which kind of made it worse ... and now let's do it better yet :)
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| 05:20 | <alkisg> Btw I'm passing ROOTPATH in the cmdline now, so we can stop using it in nbd-server config headers
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| 05:20 | And only put the img name there
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| 05:21 | (ROOTPATH isn't available with proxydhcp)
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| 05:21 | (nor with local kernel booting)
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| 05:21 | <vagrantc> i definitely recall passing ROOTPATH with proxydhcp
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| 05:22 | <alkisg> Proxydhcp = only server and boot filename, not path
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| 05:22 | <vagrantc> could be misremembering, it was so long ago
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| 05:22 | <alkisg> Hence all those workarounds for defaulting to arch.img in the initramfs
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| 05:26 | So now cmdline is: root=/dev/nbd0[p1] nbdroot=${srv}:${img}, and this even avoids the need for our ipconfig-patching script, called udhcp
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| 05:26 | And we default to IPAPPEND 2, emulated through ipxe
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| 05:27 | <vagrantc> partitioned NBD images, eh?
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| 05:27 | <alkisg> Right
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| 05:27 | Booting VMs direclty, without squashfs
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| 05:28 | And, modifying the cmdline or its parameters is now done in a single file, ltsp.ipxe, instead of dnsmasq.conf + pxelinux.cfg/default + update-kernels + ...
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| 05:28 | E.g. to have a client boot over nfs
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| 05:29 | This is a server-side decision, it shouldn't involve updating the chroot in any way
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| 05:30 | vagrantc: I think you've tested single-squashfs-file over NFS, right? Was it stable? Should we officially support that, as nbd may be the default but it frequently has issues?
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| 05:30 | <vagrantc> loop-mounted squashfs over NFS worked quite reasonably well when i tried it
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| 05:30 | <alkisg> Great
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| 05:31 | I wonder if max would accept a patch for that, I think dracut supports it out of the box
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| 05:31 | <vagrantc> will have to add some support in the initramfs
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| 05:31 | <alkisg> (although figuring out the appropriate dracut cmdline is a pain)
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| 05:32 | I think casper supports it too, loopsomething=path
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| 05:32 | <vagrantc> it actually got most of the performance gains comparing NBD to NFS+squashfs+loopdevice
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| 05:33 | <alkisg> And I think it would survive server reboots too, unlike nbd
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| 05:33 | <vagrantc> NFS still had a little more overhead becuase it's NFS ... but it could load compressed blocks and usefully cache them to reduce NFS calls
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| 05:34 | yeah, read-only NFS is astoundingly resilient when it comes to connectivity issues
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| 05:34 | <alkisg> Yeah, it only needs a single file metadata over nfs; the rest are blocks
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| 05:34 | NFS only has problems with swap; can't easily offer swap on top of that; but I wouldn't mind defaulting to nfs+squashfs if it's much more stable
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| 05:35 | <vagrantc> i've rebooted servers multiple times and had clients continue to connect without problems (other than delays while the server wasn't serving)
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| 05:35 | <vagrantc> would be pretty curious to go back to using NFS :)
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| 05:36 | <alkisg> It will be squashfs+nfs; different thing :D
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| 05:36 | <vagrantc> still
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| 05:36 | given that i finally gave in and switched Debian to NBD what feels like recently...
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| 05:37 | <alkisg> I'll try to support all these, and we'll decide after appropriate benchmarks
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| 12:43 | <nehemiah> Will ldm still be de display manager in ltsp19.08?
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| 13:07 | <alkisg> nehemiah: not sure. It's like 40% ldm, 30% libpam-sshauth, 20% something else,
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| 13:07 | ...and 10% bad calculations :P
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| 13:07 | It'll probably be a reimplementation in python though
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| 13:09 | <nehemiah> Could another option possibly be to use ldap? Just thinking out loud.
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> that's the 20%
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| 13:25 | i heard it's rather hard and won't have sshfs too
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| 13:31 | i.e. ldap can't open an ssh channel, so no sshfs, so ? nfsv3 => unsafe, so? nfsv4 => kerberos for safety, so ? rather hard
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| 16:34 | <josefig> hi people :)
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> heya josefig
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| 17:11 | <josefig> how are ya guys?
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| 17:12 | i'm going to grow up my LTSP installation you know.
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| 17:12 | now i'm getting 5-8 more developers
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> How many clients will you have?
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| 17:33 | <jeblesh> hi all, i need avice about terminal server any one free to chat ?
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| 17:35 | i need to install terminal server on a desktop computer and it need to serve its own system not a difrent one
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| 17:36 | cant finde any documeantation on it is it posible ?
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> !install
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| 17:36 | <ltsp> install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> jeblesh: it's this page ^
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| 17:36 | <jeblesh> thenx
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> the "chrootless" setup there
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| 17:36 | np
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| 17:48 | <jeblesh> so after the setup all i need is to boot from the network ?
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| 17:58 | <alkisg> right
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| 18:06 | <jeblesh_> okt i followd evry thin but the labtop pix boot dosent work ...
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| 18:07 | its the first time im using pix booting so no idear whaer to begin
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| 18:13 | <josefig> alkisg, sorry i got into a conference. I'm going to have 20 in total
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> jeblesh_: what is the error message that you get?
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| 18:23 | <jeblesh_> none on the labtop its just tarting PXE boot over ipv4 then go to over ipv6 and then just boot's from the HD ...
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> jeblesh_: ipv6? are you trying uefi pxe booting? switch to legacy (bios) pxe boot
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| 18:24 | <jeblesh_> oky ill look for that
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> Go to the client setup, and select legacy (csm) there
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| 18:33 | <jeblesh_> oky sorted legacy mod but nogo
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| 18:33 | it was fast but i think the error messege was no file rom
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| 18:34 | any idears or ill just video the screen for the errore messege ?
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| 18:38 | oky video the screen no boot file name recived
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> jeblesh_: I don't have much time, did you follow the instruction and install epoptes? If so, I can have a quick look with remote support
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| 18:44 | <jeblesh_> yes
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| 18:44 | <alkisg> !vnc-dide
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| 18:44 | <ltsp> vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> just this : x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
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| 18:49 | jeblesh_: reboot the client
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| 18:49 | so that we watch server-side messages
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| 18:49 | Is the client on the same subnet?
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| 18:50 | I don't see any dhcp requests there
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| 18:50 | <jeblesh_> sub net ? switch you mean ?
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> yes
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| 18:51 | <jeblesh_> let me check ...
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> do you have a switch, and on that switch,the router, the ltsp server, and the client?
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| 18:51 | <jeblesh_> yes
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> OK can I install virtualbox and try?
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| 18:51 | Because your setup seemsfine
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| 18:51 | <jeblesh_> oky
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| 19:03 | <alkisg> jeblesh_: somehow the client doesn't communicate with the server
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| 19:03 | firewall or something
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| 19:03 | But I need to go now; see if someone else can help you, otherwise tomorrow
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| 19:08 | <jeblesh_> oky thenx alot
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| 19:08 | <alkisg> np
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| 19:25 | <jeblesh_> oky theirs progress i opend services in the fire wall DHCP,TFTP,NFS,SSH, now the client errore's out cold not locate boot server
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| 19:28 | <alkisg> Try to turn off the firewall for a while
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