IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Request log from specific day:

Channel log from 31 July 2008 (all times are UTC)

00:00	<sbalneav> #2's more likely
00:00	* vagrantc hopes for the latter
00:00	vagrantc has quit IRC
00:01	<warren> sbalneav: any progress on the xrexecd problems?
00:02	sbalneav: I still have on idea how it works on Ubuntu, I relaxed all my permissions to match Ubuntu and it still fails to connect to the X server.
00:02	sbalneav: and even if it connects to this X server, how will it cope with the "magic" fake ssh xauth data created by ssh -Y?
00:05	<sbalneav> Dunno. I'll poke into it a bit more.
00:05	I really wanted to get the cr*ppy sshlogin code cleaned up. It's SO crucial to what we're doing, and it just didn't make me happy. I feel better about it now.
00:06	It was the proverbial itch I needed to scratch.
00:08	<warren> sbalneav: where is this new ldm work?
00:08	I don't see anything in ldm-trunk and no mention on the list.
00:09	<sbalneav> It's just a test program, I pasted the link above to the pastebot.
00:09	I'll try to get it integrated in a branch tomorrow.
00:10	<warren> k
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00:35	<btil> off topic, but fyi...
00:35	updated ltsp-docs-trunk with more docbook docs.
00:35	manpages build and manual has a title page...
00:36	lts.conf variables are ~ 25% covered in the man page, but should be done by end of weekend.
00:37	going on break for the evening...i've worked off all of my caffeine, and am into the alc. bad for doc writing.
00:38	<sbalneav> Night all
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00:41	<btil> night
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04:57	<ogra> morning
04:57	<laga> morning
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05:45	<elmar69> Just installed LTSP 5 on Debian/Lenny.
05:45	How can I make clients to start rdesktop instead of the login-prompt?
05:58	<ogra> i think on debian rdesktop is not shipped in the chroot, you likely need to install it manually
05:59	then yu need to set the right variables in lts.conf
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07:13	<jammcq> yep/quit
07:13	heh
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08:08	<elmar1969> I did install ltsp on Debian etch. I want to have the terminal man an RDP connect instead of an login.
08:08	Instead of connecting the terminal does start X11 over and over again.
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08:10	<jammcq> g'morning kidz
08:17	<Blinny> MorngiN!
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08:56	<sbalneav> morning all
09:00	<epoxy\|w3rk> hello
09:00	just got in myself
09:00	* epoxy\|w3rk yawns
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09:26	<ogra> hey sbalneav, jammcq
09:30	<sbalneav> brb
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09:43	<sbalneav> back
09:43	<CBCradioeng> I have had the k12ltsp out of the box solution working on another server for a while, but am now trying to upgrade to the Fedora 9 version 5. A lot has changed. I have a 2 nic card setup and my test client gets a dhcp--loads the vmlinuz, but then claims to not be able to find the initrd img. I am almost certain that I am just missing something stupid. Any help would be appreciated. I have followed the install guide as best
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09:45	<CBCradioeng> Also, even though ckconfig is installed--I ended up having to use the GUI, but all of the servers required are running.
09:46	<ogra> ltsp5 on fedora does some device bonding stuff, wait for warren to come around, he maintains it on FC
09:47	<CBCradioeng> thanks
09:47	<ogra> you might need to set up some special networkdevice things
09:47	hrm, where is gadi ... never here if i need him ...
09:48	sbalneav, did yu have the S01-localapps script working ?
09:49	<CBCradioeng> The network devices seem to be functioning correctly since the client grabs a DHCP from the server--its like initrd is not there
09:50	<ogra> well, i cant say much about fedora ...
09:51	tftp should be started by inetd and your kernel shoud sit in the tftdir thats defined in the inted config
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09:54	<CBCradioeng> I'm pretty new to IRC--so I'm just going to ask--is this channel more for just people who code and develop LTSP or can the general public be a part too. I don't want to distract from what happens here.
09:55	<ogra> everyone is invited :)
09:55	<CBCradioeng> I joined the mailing list and thought getting involved with IRC would give me a little more info
09:56	<ogra> and we use the channel for development as much as we use it for support ... and often even general chatter
09:56	<CBCradioeng> thanks for the info
09:56	<ogra> it usually does
10:02	<Blinny> I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that Fedora runs tftpd as a service.
10:02	<sbalneav> ogra: No, not yet.
10:03	<CBCradioeng> I think it gets turned on when needed by xinetd
10:03	<sbalneav> CBCradioeng: Is that THE CBC? As in Canadian Broadcasting Company?
10:03	<CBCradioeng> Crawford Broadcasting Company
10:03	<sbalneav> Ah
10:03	<jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:04	<sbalneav> Hey jammcq
10:04	<laga> ogra: have you ever seen problems where people need to restart inetd before their clients can download the kernels over tftp? that usually happens only right after install
10:09	<Blinny> laga: I had that problem after a vanilla 8.04 (pre .1) install.
10:09	or maybe was an alpha.. damn... brain..
10:09	<laga> that's odd
10:09	i looked at the tftp-hpa package
10:09	it's using update-inetd
10:10	but i don't remember if it actually reloads inetd..
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10:19	<elmar1969> I did manage to start terminal with rdesktop. But keyboard does fail. How can I proceed to solve that?
10:27	<sbalneav> elmar1969: How does it fail? You can't type at all?
10:29	<elmar1969> Cant type at all
10:31	<warren> CBCradioeng: follow the instrutions on our site exactly
10:31	CBCradioeng: it is different from k12ltsp but our instructions tell you exactly how to setup for 2 nic
10:33	<ogra> warren, did you use S01-localapps during your testing ?
10:33	(the script from gadi)
10:34	<warren> ogra: I use everything in *-trunk
10:34	<ogra> then i wonder how you got that working at all
10:34	apart from scaring me by its hackishness, that script cnt work
10:35	(it doesnt use the ldm socket for the sshfs connection ... and i dont understand why its duming stuf into ~/.ssh/config)
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10:37	<ogra> warren, btw xrexecd segfaults for me too
10:37	<warren> ogra: run from S99-debug-terminal?
10:37	<ogra> ??
10:38	<warren> ogra: S01-localapps successfully mounts $HOME and adds stuff to /etc/passwd and /etc/group for me
10:38	ogra: but xrexecd needs a lot more work
10:38	<ogra> how would it do that with not using the socket for sshfs
10:39	i need to add -o ControlPath=${LDM_SOCKET} to the sshfs call to make it do that cleanly
10:39	and i dont understand why that isnt used in the script
10:41	instead there is some freaky cat'ing to ~/.ssh/control going on
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10:42	<warren> hmm
10:42	<ogra> and since that happens before the mount sshfs wil even refuse to do anything since it wont use dirs with content as mountpoints
10:42	<warren> mount is failing now
10:42	it worked a few days ago
10:42	<ogra> yeah, i saw you had it working
10:42	thats why i wondered
10:42	that script needs massive cleanup
10:42	<warren> # Make sshfs use the control socket
10:42	[ ! -d ~/.ssh ] && mkdir -p ~/.ssh
10:42	echo "ControlPath ${LDM_SOCKET}" > ~/.ssh/config
10:43	<ogra> yeah
10:43	<warren> ogra: gadi and scott found that -o ControlPath=${LDM_SOCKET} did'nt work for some reason
10:43	<ogra> i assume ~/ expsnds to /root though
10:43	huh
10:43	works proper here
10:43	<sbalneav> sshfs is whacky
10:43	<ogra> nah
10:43	<sbalneav> is manually parses the options list
10:43	<ogra> which is fine with only one option
10:44	<sbalneav> and ControlPath isn't one of it's "defined" options it allows.
10:44	I should just send in a patch for sshfs
10:44	<ogra> why does it work stable for me then ?
10:44	it accepts all ssh options
10:44	i bet you forgot the equal sign ;)
10:44	<sbalneav> Not sure. Unless it already got patched.
10:45	Lemme try it. Uno momento
10:45	<warren> but hmm, the mount stopped working
10:45	<ogra> -o ControlPath=${LDM_SOCKET}
10:48	<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ sshfs oin.ath.cx: foo -o ControlMaster=/tmp/alburg
10:48	sbalneav@oin.ath.cx's password:
10:48	whoops
10:48	<warren> that's your password? =)
10:48	<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ sshfs oin.ath.cx: foo -o ControlPath=/tmp/alburg
10:48	sbalneav@oin.ath.cx's password:
10:49	And it still asks for a password
10:49	Now, this is on Hardy
10:49	<ogra> sshfs -o ControlPath=${LDM_SOCKET} ${LDM_SERVER}:${LDM_HOME} ${LDM_HOME}
10:50	<sbalneav> OK, I'll try that.
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10:51	<sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ sshfs -o ControlPath=/tmp/alburg oin.ath.cx: foo
10:51	sbalneav@oin.ath.cx's password:
10:51	And yes, ssh -S /tmp/alburg oin.ath.cx date does the right thing.
10:51	* ogra -> phone
10:52	<sbalneav> So, maybe the version in Intrepid is newer? Lemme look at the fuse site...
10:52	* ogra doesnt care about hardy
10:54	<sbalneav> lol
10:54	what version's in Intrepid?
10:54	2.1?
10:54	it's 1.9 in hardy
10:54	seems it's been added
10:56	<CBCradioeng> warren, I have followed the directions on the install guide. The client catches it ip, gets vmlinuz then cannot find initrd.
10:56	where should the initrd image be located
10:56	<warren> CBCradioeng: btw did you disable iptables?
10:57	<CBCradioeng> no
10:57	<warren> CBCradioeng: the default iptables rules on fedora will block LTSP server operation, try turning it off temporarily
10:57	CBCradioeng: service iptables stop
10:58	<CBCradioeng> done, i'll give it a try now
10:58	<warren> CBCradioeng: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 should contain a vmlinuz and initrd copied from the chroot
10:58	CBCradioeng: vmlinuz.ltsp should be a symlink pointing at the real file, and initrd.ltsp pointing at the real initrd
10:58	CBCradioeng: that all exist?
10:59	<ogra> sbalneav, 2.0
10:59	sorry, mother support case :)
11:00	sbalneav, i wont add localapps to hardy anyway so i dont really care for that
11:00	<sbalneav> Yeah, they added the option ControPath in 2.0, so that's why that works.
11:01	<warren> 2.0 of what?
11:01	<ogra> if we need it there i can packport the feature, but given that sshfs is in universe in hardy it wont be possible to add it by default anyway
11:01	<sbalneav> sshfs
11:02	<warren> sbalneav: I'm fine with a 2.0 requirement in ldm-trunk
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11:02	<sbalneav> So ami I
11:02	<ogra> just checking if anything would block it from ubuntu man
11:02	*main
11:03	<sbalneav> I'll be running hardy here at Legalaid for a while, but I'll backport anything I need :)
11:03	<ogra> well, we can do an SRU for it in hardy
11:04	but i wont be able to get it to main in a released version
11:04	<warren> oh!
11:04	<ogra> so manual work will be required
11:04	<warren> mounting was failing because I reinstalled my chroot
11:04	and I didn't install sshfs
11:04	duh
11:04	<sbalneav> I been a sysadmin for getting close to 20 years. Manually twiddling with things doesn't scare me :)
11:05	<ogra> no, but others who want to run an LTS version and are not familiar with it :)
11:05	i'll need to write a howto for them
11:05	even though the hardy ltsp version isnt really suitable for that, probably backports would be better here
11:06	would get me into maintenance hell to add it to hardys ltsp and carry it as massive patches
11:06	* sbalneav prepares new branch to integrate new sshlogin code....
11:07	<ogra> sbalneav, so the cat'ing to ~/.ssh/config was only to work around the issue with the non working -o ?
11:08	<sbalneav> yeah
11:08	<ogra> great
11:08	thats ugly good to see it go :)
11:09	on a sidenote ~ isnt properly expanded
11:09	$LDM_HOME wuld have been better
11:09	<sbalneav> yeah
11:09	<ogra> but that would get yu probs with sshfs since it wont mount to any dir thats non empty
11:10	<sbalneav> Really? I've never tried that. It doesn't just overlay like normal?
11:10	<ogra> nope
11:10	it spills an error and exits
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11:11	<sbalneav> Ah, you need to use -o nonempty
11:11	Should we add -o nonempty by default?
11:11	<ogra> but then your ~/.ssh/config would be gone ... and worse you would have it lying around after logout
11:12	since we dont have any code thats cleans up yet
11:12	<sbalneav> oh, this is for that
11:12	<ogra> so keeping it as is is fine
11:12	<sbalneav> so the -o ControlPath thing fixes that, right?
11:12	<ogra> right
11:12	<sbalneav> ok, gotcha
11:12	<ogra> and if the socket is gone it is cleanly unmounted
11:12	well, we still have a user dir in /home
11:13	and the entries in group and passwd
11:13	i'D like to find a way to clean that up too
11:13	<sbalneav> I can see the day when we'll have to flush the history. bzr checkouts are getting looooooooooooooooooooooo...ng
11:13	<ogra> nah, dont flush histories :)
11:13	make bzr behave better ;)
11:13	<sbalneav> Someone needs to speed up bzr then.
11:13	Get on that, would you? :)
11:14	* sbalneav watchs / \| \ - spin
11:14	* ogra doesnt hav probs with bzr as long as he uses lp:~ogra which translates into the fastest checkout method
11:14	<sbalneav> Oh, really?
11:15	I keep using http for checkouts. That my problem?
11:15	<ogra> well, an initial checkout takes its time
11:15	<sbalneav> ah, ok
11:15	yeah, this is a new branch
11:15	<ogra> but all subsequent ones are like a breeze
11:15	<sbalneav> \o/ checkout done, hacking commences.
11:15	<ogra> ah, well, i only keep one copy of upstream and keep that up to date
11:16	and branch off that for my dev stuff usually
11:16	that diagram warren has drawn on the whiteboard should be made pretty as pdf in the docs ;)
11:16	in a how to contribute section
11:16	<sbalneav> That's probably what I should do, then I'm branching locally, which one expects to be faster.
11:17	<ogra> yeah, keep one upstream copy and merge your work branch afterwards
11:17	and use lp:
11:18	ooof
11:18	<CBCradioeng> warren where should the chroot be located
11:18	* ogra solved his worst cmpc bug ...
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11:19	<ogra> CBCradioeng, usually in /opt/ltsp/$ARCH
11:19	ltsp-build-client will create it there
11:20	<warren> CBCradioeng: you did install the chroot with ltsp-build-client right?
11:22	<CBCradioeng> This is going to sound ridiculous-, but I could not figure out how to get the ltsp-build-client run
11:22	I beleive everything else is in place
11:23	my /opt/ltsp/ doesn't have any architecture folders
11:24	<warren> CBCradioeng: you can't boot a client OS if you don't have a client chroot installed in /opt/ltsp/i386
11:24	CBCradioeng: sudo to root and run ltsp-build-client?
11:24	CBCradioeng: what instructions are you following?
11:25	<CBCradioeng> the install guide--unfortunately, not as skilled at linux as I should be
11:25	but I can get around a terminal okay
11:25	<warren> CBCradioeng: URL?
11:26	* ogra had to smile about francis mail ...
11:26	<ogra> "Results shows that a thin-client that boots with NBD is about 44% faster than with NFS."
11:26	<CBCradioeng> https://fedroahosted.org/l12linux/wiki/installguide
11:26	<ogra> i could have told him :P
11:33	<CBCradioeng> warren--running build-client now
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11:58	<gbolte> thank you chanserv....he is so nice
12:13	<Blinny> A bit impersonal though...
12:15	<gbolte> kinda
12:25	<stgraber> ogra: they are still not using squashfs though :)
12:26	squashfs+nbd I mean
12:27	ogra: btw, is it nbd that's faster than nfs or the compressed squashfs ? (what would happen with the .squashfs being on NFS ? :))
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12:30	<gbolte> who still uses nfs?
12:30	<stgraber> almost everyone except Ubuntu IIRC :)
12:31	<ogra> stgraber, no idea, i used squashfs from the beginning ... i bet its a bit of both
12:31	nbd attahes to a lower level so you dont have the fs overhead you have with nfs ...
12:32	i.e. device vs filesystem over the net
12:32	* stgraber is installing a test VM for Intrepid+LTSP, trying to make the socket link to work between the two VMs (server+client)
12:33	<ogra> be careful if you use vbox ...
12:33	<stgraber> I use kvm
12:33	<ogra> you will need to use a hardy kernel
12:33	and X has massive issues atm
12:33	ah, k
12:34	<stgraber> the only problem I have with it is the link between the two VM, it doesn't have some internal networking thing like VB and the "socket" NIC was broken in Hardy, let's hope it'll work with intrepid
12:34	<gbolte> stgraber, so ubuntu uses nbd + squash?
12:35	<stgraber> with Hardy I basically had a 30kb/s link to boot the thin client, that was quite slow :)
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12:35	<gbolte> wow
12:35	:/
12:35	<ogra> gbolte, nbd+squash+union/aufs
12:35	<stgraber> gbolte: yes, since gutsy IIRC
12:35	<gbolte> ah
12:35	cool
12:35	<ogra> gbolte, afaik kiwi-ltsp does use that as well
12:35	<gbolte> not sure what all we have just nbd+squash prolly
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12:35	<gbolte> yeah
12:36	<ogra> but not sure and i wont dig in suses cdbuild tools to find out :P
12:36	<gbolte> maybe
12:36	lol
12:36	<ogra> bad enough that they dont work with upstream
12:36	<gbolte> kiwi is fun
12:36	:P
12:36	<ogra> yeah, but doesnt gain us any contributions upstream
12:36	its a totally black hole
12:37	but better than not having any ltsp in suse at all i gues
12:37	s
12:37	<japerry_cat> ogra: kiwi is not a specific tool for LTSP, and has no reason to be in upstream
12:37	<ogra> japerry_cat, right
12:38	japerry_cat is now known as japerry
12:38	<ogra> i dont complain about using a cd build system for building monolithic ltsp blobs if it works for you guys, but its sad that you dont help with the tools all others use, that way we lose developer power
12:38	<japerry> OpenSuSE wanted to make a neat imaging system, and so they came up with Kiwi.. ltsp is just one of many things that uses kiwi
12:39	ogra: well thats a novell issue. I'm not a C programmer
12:39	* stgraber hopes he'll be able to attend the next LTSP hackfest (maine won't be that far away)
12:39	<ogra> stgraber, and francis can give you a ride i bet ;)
12:39	<stgraber> I think so yes :)
12:39	<The_Code> ogra, easy-ltsp :)
12:40	<ogra> The_Code, yeah using xml, and focused on kiwi
12:40	same issue
12:40	<gbolte> yeah easy-ltsp is going to be quite nice once it has been polished
12:40	<The_Code> ogra, not focused on kiwi
12:41	<ogra> i would have liked something that every distro can use with the currently used ltsp scripts we have upstream in every distro apart from suse
12:41	<The_Code> there is a kiwi-ltsp module but you shouldn't see it in other distros
12:41	<ogra> something that doesnt expect the already existing ini filestructure to be translated to xml etc
12:41	<japerry> ogra: everything except the imaging system is the same in suse
12:42	<ogra> but its great that its there, no doubt
12:42	<japerry> I suppose you probably could use the build utils as well, but with kiwi already working on suse, there is little point. and since ltsp seems adamant about not using kiwi, then so be it.
12:42	<ogra> The_Code, so warren can use it out of the box on fedora without changes at all ?
12:42	<The_Code> ogra, http://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/easy-ltsp-0.4-other.tar.gz this is the version without kiwi module
12:42	yes he can
12:43	not the repo version but that one
12:43	<ogra> japerry, the ltsp5 spec was all about using the same scripts everywhere for using the distro specific tools in the backend
12:43	so everyone uses i.e. ltsp-build-client and we have a common set of switches for this
12:43	<The_Code> and there is no need to tranlate anything to xml, you can but you don't need to
12:44	<ogra> japerry, we wrote a very small set of minimal requirements for ltsp5 back in detroit at the hackfest, the above was one of them
12:45	and the idea was to have lots of people from all distros contibuting to the same code
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12:45	<gbolte> ogra, so that basically eliminates any distro specific imaging systems?
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12:45	<dberkholz> depends on whether they're callable from within ltsp-build-client
12:45	<ogra> gbolte, no, it encourages them ... but as backends not as the core tool
12:46	<japerry> ogra: and unfortunately I (and others in OpenSuSE) believe the already existing kiwi imaging system is a better way to do it. since you guys don't wanna use it because you think its tied to a specifc distro (its distro agnostic), we're at an impass
12:49	<ogra> japerry, well, ltsp5 was two years old, the specs were made and three distros were contributing ... why shozld we throw all that away ? especially since it was designed with the focus that everyone can easily contribute and integrate it in the distros he wants in an easy way ?
12:49	suse was invited to detroit and refused to send anyone
12:49	and there were public invitations to the community as well
12:50	<japerry> ogra: so thats another point, in which I agree with you -- Novell hasn't really done a bunch of work in this field, and there is only one person who I believe is getting paid to sorta work on ltsp and opensuse
12:50	<ogra> novell != suse community
12:52	i'm not doing that for money since a year now ... and stil take care for the code ... sbalneav never got any money for doing it, vagrantc or dberkholz neither
12:52	<sbalneav> stgraber: So, are you moving to Montreal?
12:52	<stgraber> sbalneav: Sherbrooke but yes I'm moving to Quebec, Canada
12:52	<japerry> ogra: the problem there is most people in the suse community doing LTSP integration aren't in the states, and aren't getting paid much. Zoinker was talking about how he recieved requests about LTSP, but needs some more momentum in the community if novell will sponsor someone to come to an event. Unless a C programmer, excited about OpenSuse and LTSP and has the means to get to a hackfest, its not that easy
12:53	<sbalneav> Awesome! You planning on staying long enough to get citizenship?
12:54	<stgraber> sbalneav: probably yes, current plan is to work/study there for at least 5 years
12:54	<ogra> back then theer was plenty of money from disklessworkstations.com it would surely have been possible to sponsr someone ... i bet i culd have even gotten moey from canonical to get inter distro relationships going here
12:54	the point is that there was no reaction at all
12:54	<sbalneav> japerry: Getting to work with jammcq, ogra, vagrantc, etc etc etc was pay enough. :)
12:54	<ogra> and coming two years later any saying throw away what you all worked on we have something better doesnt help
12:56	<japerry> ogra: I think cyberorg and captain_maGNUs looked at LTSP5 and looked at the build image system you guys had. Then they weighed the two together and decided on KIWI because it had a better feature set and would be easier to implement
12:57	<stgraber> sbalneav: I'm packing stuff at the moment, flight's on Wednesday (and I currently have a lot of mess).
12:57	<japerry> OpenSUSE was late to the LTSP5 game
12:57	sbalneav: haha well yes that was probably worth it =P but some people just don't have the funds
12:58	<sbalneav> stgraber: Canada allows for dual citizensip, so you won't have to give up your Swiss citizenship to become a Canuck. At least, from Canada's side of things. Not sure on the Swiss rules.
12:59	<ogra> japerry, cyberorg's words were that he doesnt understand our code bt that he found "something better"
13:00	i asked him several times to use kiwi as backend instead of frontend, vagrant and i have givent him plenty of pointers
13:00	<stgraber> sbalneav: Not a problem here either, I know some guys who have three different citizenship (both parents' and the swiss one because they are in switzerland for more than 6 years and asked for it)
13:01	<ogra> japerry, but lets not wind up on that, i'm just sad we're missing valuable upstream contributions through it but i'm happy you guys have ltsp5
13:01	but thats how forks are ...
13:02	<japerry> ogra: sigh yes, you won't get any argument from me there. The main issue is that I don't think any of us know C, which makes it hard to contribute other than documentation, testing, etc
13:02	<ogra> 99% of ltsp is shell
13:02	ldm is C though
13:03	<japerry> ogra: and I'd like to avoid any fork. luckily OpenSUSE and LTSP5 uses all the tools except the imager. I'm interested in your idea about making the LTSP imaging script the front end and using KIWI as the back end
13:04	<ogra> vagrant gave cyberorg a plugin for that a year ago ... not sure where thats now
13:04	<sbalneav> stgraber: You're set then. Just put "eh?" on the end of your questions, and you'll be indistinguishable from a native French Canadien! :)
13:04	<stgraber> sbalneav: :)
13:05	* ogra goes for dinner
13:05	<gbolte> ogra, well maybe its time to start working to get that implemented on our end
13:05	<ogra> gbolte, yes, that would be nice :)
13:06	<japerry> ogra: I've been on your side of this issue before. in Drupal there was an ecommerce system that needed serious help. Then some people got paid by a refridgeration company to make ecommerce work in drupal. instead of helping the ecommerce program though, they decided to make a TOTALLY different system, which has splintered ecommerce development
13:06	<stgraber> sbalneav: with my french pronunciation I have no risk to be ever considered as a french canadian :) (even if non-native french may not see the difference)
13:08	<japerry> ogra: I don't think OpenSUSE's implementation is as bad as what happened with drupal ecommerce, but it'd be nice to avoid any fork
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13:09	<japerry> geh, I should have worked on the LTSP website when at the hackfest.. the wiki is extremely unhelpful
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13:50	<sbalneav> Well, here's the buzz in my neck (haha) of the woods today:
13:50	http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html
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14:07	<operador> hi al
14:07	how i change the default session on ldm (autologin)
14:07	i need change to xfce but the default session always load gnome session
14:08	K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
14:08	<operador> ?
14:09	<ogra> operador, what distro
14:10	<operador> Ubuntu 8.04.1 :)
14:10	<ogra> sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
14:10	run that on the server
14:10	that offers you to change the system default
14:11	<operador> :O
14:11	ogra TAHNK YOU!
14:11	<ogra> ~/.xsession is also respected if you want to to it per user
14:11	<operador> i need reboot the server ?
14:11	<ogra> nope
14:11	<sbalneav> Where's vagrant's debian packaging bzr repo again?
14:11	<ogra> should work on next login on the client
14:12	<operador> i can customize each client using the ~/.xsession file ?
14:12	<ogra> sbalneav, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vagrantc/ltsp/ltsp-debian-packaging
14:12	operador, no, each user
14:12	for a client based attempt you would use lts.conf and set LDM_SESSION
14:13	<sbalneav> THX
14:15	<operador> in ld_session i need change to xfce ?
14:15	<ogra> the path to the xfce session command
14:15	<operador> LDM_SESSION="/usr/bin/xfce4-session"
14:18	<ogra> if thats what xfce uses, then yes
14:18	<operador> :) thnaks !
14:18	thanks
14:21	ogra my localdevices dont work in xfce session :(
14:21	<ogra> they do, they just dont show on you desktop since xfce doent monitor /media for devices to show up
14:21	check if they are there
14:22	<operador> ALT+F2 nautilus
14:22	all work fine
14:22	<ogra> right
14:22	<operador> how i fix it ?
14:22	:(
14:23	<ogra> there is a script for kde in the example dir of the docs for ltspfs installed check that
14:23	that might work for xfce as well
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14:28	<operador> $ ls /usr/share/doc/ltspfs/
14:28	changelog.Debian.gz copyright README.Debian
14:28	not find :(
14:28	$ ls /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/
14:28	dhcpd.conf dhcpd-dnsmasq get_host_random qemu-ltsp
14:29	* vagrantc wonders what operador is looking for
14:29	<ogra> vagrantc, the kde script
14:30	i'm sure its installed somewhere
14:30	<operador> yes
14:30	i need use XFCE
14:30	<vagrantc> on debian, it's installed in /usr/share/doc/ltspfs/examples/kde-desktop-icons
14:30	<operador> but my localdevices dont work, if i use this command ALT+F2 "nautilus" all works fine
14:31	<ogra> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltspfs/ltspfs-trunk/files/61?file_id=examples-20080302225737-q6d8ttvp6y7nfi4a-1
14:31	<operador> $ ls /usr/share/doc/ltspfs/
14:31	changelog.Debian.gz copyright README.Debian
14:31	<ogra> there it is
14:32	not sure at all if it helps with xfce though
14:32	<operador> humm
14:32	<ogra> it says at the top what you have to do ...
14:32	<operador> ogra on xubuntu 8.04.1 all works fine by default ?
14:32	<ogra> no idea
14:33	<operador> xubuntu alternate have a LTSP SERVER in instaltion options
14:33	<ogra> i dont use xfce and had no feedback from any xubuntu testers
14:33	but just grab the script from above and try
14:35	<vagrantc> ogra: does ubuntu hardy have an ltspfs with the hooks support?
14:37	ogra: it was first introduced in 2008-03
14:40	<ogra> no idea, i thought it had
14:40	but its trivial to test :)
14:40	<vagrantc> it was a pretty simple patch... so shouldn't be hard to backport, if needed.
14:41	looks like it doesn't have it
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15:00	<warren> Is anyone doing improvements to S01-localapps?
15:00	otherwise I'll work on it when I"m at the laundromat
15:01	<ogra> wow, you work at one of the biggest OSS companies and dont have a own washing machine ?
15:05	<warren> no
15:05	I can guarantee that you're paid more than me. =)
15:08	<sbalneav> warren: You need to demand a raise :)
15:08	<ogra> i' not sure about that after taxes :)
15:09	<sbalneav> Anyone read my little link above
15:09	delly84 has joined #ltsp
15:09	<sbalneav> We're guessing the suspect will be eligible for legalaid.
15:09	<delly84> does anyone have any idea how to specify different images at boot?
15:10	like if i had different software installed on different images and I wanted to change images at bootup
15:10	<sbalneav> Which, different nbd images?
15:11	<delly84> yes
15:11	i have a pxe menu so i can change between local and netboot, but i would also like to change to different nbd images
15:11	<sbalneav> What are you looking for, a menu?
15:11	<delly84> yes
15:12	<sbalneav> You'd have to write something that'd sit in the initramfs
15:12	<delly84> what do you mean?
15:12	<sbalneav> put different images at different ports, then select the port you want from the menu.
15:12	<jammcq> sbalneav: dude, I thought canadians where supposed to be some of the nicest people on the planet. I guess that is, until they get a big ole knife
15:13	<sbalneav> There's nothing written to do that, you'd have to write something yourself.
15:13	jammcq: heh, apparently, the talk is this is the first murder of it's kind like this in Canada.
15:15	<delly84> you are getting a little over my head. where is the port/image defined and then how would I go about modifying initramfs?
15:16	<sbalneav> The ltsp nbd image sits on a specific network port. It's an arbitrary port number we pick "just 'cuz". You could have different images on different ports.
15:17	In the initramfs, we mount from the default port, but if you wrote a menu or something to pick different ports interactively, you could pick which port to go after.
15:18	To modify the initramfs, you'd use initramfs-tools.
15:18	However, if that's over your head, then the simplest answer is: "no, you can't interactively pick different images" :)
15:19	<delly84> haha, well it is only over my head until i figure it out :-)
15:21	<vagrantc> delly84: or you could just specify a different port from pxelinux.cfg/default
15:22	<ogra> thats what we do anyway
15:22	<stgraber> ogra: did you manage to generate a chroot with current ltsp in Intrepid ?
15:22	<ogra> stgraber, yes, but i had to remove the nsc and psb xservers
15:22	<stgraber> ogra: it's failing because of missing start-stop-daemon in ltsp/scripts/
15:22	<ogra> and use a hardy kernel since the intrepid one oopses
15:22	<delly84> vagrantc: and then just put different images at different ports when i create them?
15:22	<vagrantc> delly84: yes
15:22	<ogra> stgraber, hmm, thats been fixed ages ago
15:23	<sbalneav> vagrantc: I think he wants a menu he can pick from
15:23	<delly84> sbalneav: i can just use the pxe menu system
15:23	<ogra> stgraber, all vagrantc's fault :P
15:23	<stgraber> ogra: I have 5.1.14-0ubuntu2
15:23	<ogra> he moved it to a subdir
15:23	hmm, that should actually work
15:23	<delly84> can't i?
15:23	<vagrantc> sbalneav: yes, you can configure a menu in pxelinux
15:24	<sbalneav> Not sure if the pxe menu system will allow you to pick different command line option sets.
15:24	<delly84> vagrantc: i will try that
15:24	<vagrantc> ogra: what did i move?
15:24	<sbalneav> If it does, then yes.
15:24	<ogra> vagrantc, start-stop-daemon
15:24	<delly84> thanks for the help all
15:24	:-)
15:24	<vagrantc> sbalneav: well, you specify a different menu that has a different commandline option
15:24	<stgraber> ogra: it says: "Cannot stat /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/start-stop-daemon", looking at the chroot I don't even have /usr/share/ltsp :)
15:24	<sbalneav> I've never used pxemenus so I dunno.
15:25	<ogra> stgraber, as a quickfix just link it
15:25	<vagrantc> ogra: i think that was warren ... or at least, i did it under pressure from warren.
15:25	<ogra> its hidden in /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/debian/start-stop-daemon
15:25	evil evil :P
15:25	<sbalneav> If that DOESN'T work, then putting a menu into the initramfs will.
15:25	<warren> sure blame me
15:25	<ogra> sbalneav, and we could use the new nifty input features in usplash :)
15:25	* ogra hugs warren
15:26	<vagrantc> ogra: it's in /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/start-stop-daemon on my system.
15:26	<delly84> sbalneav: just to be clear, where/how do i modify initramfs?
15:26	<ogra> its my fault, i had fixed it, but it somehow it regerssed
15:26	<delly84> just in case
15:26	<ogra> vagrantc, because you install it separately and leave out the other distro scripts
15:26	i install /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/*
15:26	<vagrantc> ah, yes.
15:26	that'll do it.
15:27	<ogra> which pulls in the subdirs
15:27	<warren> ugh. I really don't want to go to the laundromat
15:27	it is hot outside
15:27	<vagrantc> warren: use the secret tunnels.
15:28	<delly84> ok back to this question about specifying ports for a different image and changing ports
15:28	the rootpath and filename are specified in dhcpd.conf ... right?
15:29	<sbalneav> Not with the NBD method, no.
15:29	With NFS, yes.
15:29	With NBD, the port you go after specifies your root path.
15:30	2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
15:30	So, by default, if your ltsp workstation connects to port 2000 on the server, it'll get served /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
15:30	So, by extention:
15:31	<delly84> oh shit! you are right ... so i probably don't even need the "if substring ... PXEClient ..." garbage in my dhcpd.conf then do i?
15:31	<sbalneav> 5001 stream tcp nowait nobody tcpd nbdrootd /opt/something/my.image
15:31	<ogra> stgraber, fix uploaded
15:31	<sbalneav> will serve up your image on 5001
15:31	<stgraber> ogra: rocks, thanks
15:32	<ogra> i need to push that into the upstream branch though
15:32	it regressed because i didnt and pulled a new tarball
15:33	<sbalneav> so it's just a case of setting nbdrootport
15:33	Sorry, nbdport
15:33	ogra: On the kernel command line for the pxe boot, it's just nbdport=5001 to override, right?
15:33	IIRC
15:33	<ogra> not sure. let me look :)
15:33	<delly84> yup, i see. can i take out that substring PXEClient stuff in dhcpd.conf then?
15:34	<ogra> either nbdroot=ip:port
15:34	or just nbdport=port
15:35	in the second case it defaults to the bootserver for the server ip
15:35	<sbalneav> delly84: Why would you? Leave it in there. It's not hurting anything.
15:35	ogra: Thanks, that's what I thought.
15:35	<ogra> if you ever try to boot etherboot clients it will help you
15:35	and it doesnt do any harm if you only have pxe
15:36	* ogra would leve it in
15:36	<delly84> so it has no effect on pxe booting?
15:36	<ogra> no
15:36	<sbalneav> it has no effect on NBD root
15:36	<ogra> http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Intel-Classmate-PCs-Head-to-Portugal/
15:36	:D
15:36	<delly84> gotcha
15:36	<sbalneav> ogra: Hey, is there a new image for my CMPC at home?
15:37	<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/classmate/images/hardy/
15:37	as usual
15:37	i'm nearly done with the last bugs
15:37	due date is aug 8th
15:37	<stgraber> ogra: btw, still no news of mine :) and I doubt it'll be there before I leave so it'll have to be sent to Canada (when I have an address) ...
15:38	and still no news from Riched (he seems to be even more busy than he usually is)
15:38	<ogra> well, i dont send them out ... rich is the dispatcher ... sorry for that
15:38	operador has quit IRC
15:38	<ogra> he didnt answer my pings either today ... not sure, he might be to busy
15:39	<sbalneav> ok, I'm going to head for home shortly, I'll be on thisevening.
15:39	Cheers.
15:39	sbalneav has quit IRC
15:43	<delly84> thanks for the help, i think that might have worked
15:44	* delly84 is going home for the night
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15:48	<stgraber> ogra: failed to generate the chroot, some weird linux-image problem and it also installed lilo
15:49	ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ltsp-bc.png
15:51	ogra: missing update-kernels in /usr/lib/ltsp/update-kernels/
15:52	<warren> stgraber: that script is full of debianisms, a big reason why I don't use it myself.
15:52	stgraber: fedora has entirely different scripts for that part
15:53	<stgraber> ogra: well /usr/lib/ltsp/ is in fact empty other than the screen.d directory ...
15:53	warren: well, it'd probably have worked if it was there :)
15:53	<warren> if what?
15:54	<vagrantc_> stgraber: many things that were previously in /usr/lib/ltsp were moved to /usr/share/ltsp
15:58	<stgraber> vagrantc_: right, it's in /usr/share/ltsp. Thanks I'll workaround that until ogra fixes it :)
16:02	ogra: so basically /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels should point to /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels instead of /usr/lib/ltsp/update-kernels
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16:11	<Lns> quick question - would it be hard to, during LTSP (ubuntu at least) install (via altCD or manual) to have an LTSP "mode" or similar, for either 1 nic or 2? I'm installing ltsp from the Ubuntu Hardy AltCD and it just complains that dhcpd.conf must me manually edited because it couldn't find enough interfaces to use (i'm assuming 2 is default). But none, but one, of my LTSP installs have 2 nics (I have 8 total). Is this a viable feature request?
16:12	<warren> uh...
16:12	1 NIC network setups tend to be a lot more complex than two NIC's
16:12	<Lns> ...not from my experience.. ?
16:13	why would it be more complex?
16:14	<ogra> you cant set it up by default easily without mangling the config file
16:14	which means you will get debconf questions on every upgrade which i try to avoid ...
16:14	<warren> complex as in not automatic
16:14	because everyone's network is different
16:15	<ogra> right
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16:15	<ogra> with the two nic setup its easy since we have a completely spare network segemnt and can just pick an ip
16:16	so i leavr the more complicated setups up to the admin but tell her what to do :)
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16:17	<ogra> everything < 2 NICs will pop up the message, everything > 2 NICs gives you a selection menu to pick one of the currently not used NICs
16:18	so you actually only have to do something in case you have only one NIC which isnt what you should do anyway
16:18	(due to the fact the separating the TC network from the LAN adds security)
16:18	<CBCradioeng> warren: of course, doing the ltsp-build-client solved a lot obviously. The client says that it cannot mount the root file system. Possibly something else I didn't do?
16:19	<warren> CBCradioeng: did you follow the directions about adding the line to /etc/exports?
16:19	CBCradioeng: then you likely have to "service nfs restart"
16:19	CBCradioeng: note that all of this was in the step by step directions...
16:19	<CBCradioeng> I will give it a try--thanks for the help
16:19	<warren> including the ltsp-build-client step that you skipped
16:20	<ogra> probably CBCradioeng is a hurdler :)
16:20	<CBCradioeng> If I hurdle--I tend to get hurt!!
16:21	<ogra> well, then ltsp just mirrors real life :)
16:21	<CBCradioeng> exactly
16:21	<ogra> stgraber, that shouldnt matter for functionallity /usr/share/ltsp is a link to /usr/lib/ltsp
16:22	so both locations would work, and i suppose vagrantc_ fixed the scripts accrodingly, i only use upstrem stuff there the only difference should be the start-stp-daemon thing and policy-rc.d
16:24	<stgraber> ogra: it's not
16:25	<ogra> ??
16:25	<stgraber> /usr/lib/ltsp/ only contains screen.d here and /usr/share/ltsp contains everything else
16:26	<ogra> oh man
16:26	it was all fine when i uploaded the first 5.1.14
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16:26	<ogra> i have no idea what happened
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16:33	<stgraber> ogra: I also seem to have some problems with lts.conf not being interpreted ... I set XSERVER and it doesn't seem to care :)
16:34	<warren> XSERVER or X_SERVER
16:34	?
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16:35	<warren> stgraber: what distro are you using?
16:35	stgraber: XSERVER is only respected in configure-x.sh. not all LTSP distros use configure-x.sh.
16:36	<stgraber> warren: Ubuntu, last I tried it worked but that may have changed
16:36	<ogra> warren, ubuntu does
16:37	<stgraber> ogra: what's the easiest way to know if lts.conf gets loaded when your client doesn't show anything (and no VT switch is possible) ?
16:38	I even tried XSERVER=blah which should have made the X server to fail and not start but it still tried to load the buggy driver (well, that's kvm's fault but it's still buggy)
16:40	<ogra> try CONFIGURE_X=False
16:40	i'm pretty sure Xorg is segfaulting
16:44	<stgraber> ogra: hehe, I get a working X with CONFIGURE_X=False, thanks :)
16:44	<ogra> yeah
16:44	it shouldnt actually be needed anymore unlesss yur monitor mosbehaves
16:44	*mis
16:45	<Lns> sorry...was afk
16:45	<ogra> we use inputattach for mice, setxkbmap for keyboards (thanks warren ) and Xorg should detect the driver properly on its own
16:45	<stgraber> hmm, looks like my manually installed ltsp is missing the SSH keys ... rebuilding :(
16:45	ogra: yes, the only problem is if someone wants to force a screen resolution to for example 1024x768
16:45	<ogra> i would love to look into using xrandr for X_MODE
16:46	well, in cases where you use horiz sync and vertrefresh values you need an xorg.conf
16:46	<stgraber> but that doesn't work with xorg.conf anyway (last I tried) so the only way is to use RANDR (I usually fix that in a gnome session script but doing that earlier may be better)
16:46	<ogra> but thats currently the only case i could imagine
16:47	<Lns> hrm.. ogra, so does >2 NICs require manual dhcpd editing? seems like it'd be nice to have the full range of possibility with nics and not bury 1NIC setups in the sand :(
16:47	since like in my setups the networks are physically separated anyway
16:48	<ogra> >2 doesnt
16:48	it will list all free NICs for you to pick one
16:48	<Lns> gotcha..
16:48	<ogra> and configure it right to be used with the preconfigured dhcpd
16:48	only less than two requires configuration
16:48	<Lns> so in your experience hardly anyone uses 1NIC?
16:49	<stgraber> ogra: btw, I have some scripts to have a server+client setup using KVM if you are interested. Works fine with standard kernel, only problem is that amd64 doesn't work at the moment due to grub segfaulting in kvm :(
16:50	<ogra> Lns, people followint the quick install guide will use two nics if they have them
16:50	stgraber, sure
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16:51	<stgraber> oh and the mouse in X is stuck in bottom left corner, that's a bug in the vmmouse module for Xorg IIRC (we filed that bug during alpha-3 iso testing)
16:52	<ogra> ah, i heard about that
16:52	might even have been you who mentioned it
16:53	virtualbox works fine though
16:53	beyond the x failure
16:53	<gbolte> ogra, how much have you used openoffice inside a ltsp client?
16:53	<ogra> and the kernel oops
16:53	<gbolte> or anyone here for that matter
16:53	<stgraber> ogra: hehe, "other than the kernel and X being broken it works well" ... :)
16:53	<ogra> gbolte, many edubuntu usders use it regulary
16:54	and there are "some" :)
16:54	<gbolte> hmm ever heard of ooo crashing a terminal when you go to print a document from oo writer with an image in it
16:54	<ogra> thats long fixed
16:55	<gbolte> 0_o
16:55	<ogra> but yes, i know that bug from ubuntu gutsy
16:55	<gbolte> orly
16:55	<ogra> (gutsy = 7.10)
16:55	<Lns> gbolte, That issue is definitely at least reduced to very LARGE image docs
16:55	if not completely squashed
16:55	<gbolte> hmm
16:56	<Lns> i was involved in "complaining" about that bug ;)
16:56	<gbolte> ah
16:56	weird
16:56	<japerry> Lns: what package contained the bug?
16:56	<ogra> japerry, oo.o
16:56	<japerry> 2.4?
16:56	<ogra> it was patched in ubuntu and later accepted upstream as well
16:57	<gbolte> why would open office crash the actual terminal client though
16:57	<ogra> it runs out orf ram
16:57	thats why we have the XRAMPERC lts.conf option
16:57	<gbolte> damn it must use a hell of a lot of ram
16:57	our client boxes have 1GB
16:58	<ogra> japerry, 2.4.1 iirc
16:58	gbolte, how much videoram do they have ? :)
16:58	<gbolte> 256mb
16:58	<ogra> with cards that use shared ram 1G wont crash
16:59	if you use soem high end cards that have limited ram onboard 1G wont do anythig for you anyway
16:59	you could throw out most of it
16:59	<gbolte> these are shared onboard nvidia gfx
16:59	so in the bios its set to 256 IIRC
16:59	<japerry> ogra: we're using 2.4.1.6-1.1
16:59	<ogra> then raise the shared mem
16:59	<Lns> gbolte, http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=85321
17:00	<ogra> japerry, no idea then, i know we had the bug in 7.10 and it was mostly fixed in 8.04 ... it can still happen with hilariously big images though
17:00	but i didnt hear any complaints anymore since quite a while
17:01	<japerry> ogra: okay I'm thinking that this employee is importing a chemoffice TIFF file and resizing them
17:01	<gbolte> hmm weird well its odd it only happens on printing
17:01	<japerry> even though the image doesn't look large, it might be
17:01	<ogra> local printers ?
17:02	or network printers ?
17:02	<gbolte> net
17:02	<ogra> well, that should cache on the server
17:02	not on the client
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17:02	<gbolte> I know thats why its odd
17:02	:P
17:02	<ogra> the client isnt involved at all here
17:02	<gbolte> well why dose the client crash then
17:02	haha
17:02	<ogra> vagrantc, do you remember where you had the kiwi plugins you had prepared for cyberorg an age ago ?
17:03	<gbolte> lol @ age
17:03	<ogra> i know you had one or two you pointed him to
17:03	<Lns> gbolte, do you have nbd swap enabled on the ltsp svr?
17:03	<vagrantc> ogra: not really
17:03	<ogra> well, with 1G on the clients he wouldnt need swap
17:04	<Lns> true
17:04	<gbolte> Lns, I think we do have swap
17:04	<Lns> gbolte, how big are the TIFFs being handled?
17:04	<gbolte> not sure
17:04	<Lns> ballpark? 100mb? 10mb?
17:04	<gbolte> let me check
17:04	<Lns> k
17:04	<ogra> well, you are using closed drivers that will get tricky to deug if X is involved
17:05	*debug
17:05	how do your clients crash btw ?
17:05	do they hardlock ?
17:05	or do they restart X ?
17:06	<japerry> ogra: when you start printing, OpenOffice will show the printer status bar at the bottom about half way
17:06	then it will freeze.. and the mouse will start jerking around
17:06	<ogra> did you check your network load ?
17:07	and does it go away after a time ?
17:07	<japerry> you can't access any other files, and after a min or two, the screen will just die and you'll get booted to a locked up console
17:07	the network is gigabit
17:07	<ogra> doesnt say much if you have peaks :)
17:08	if the cache on the server is small and the tiff is big it could easily send a peak
17:08	oh, and is the net towards the printer the same you use for the TC's ?
17:08	<Lns> japerry, your thin clients are gb/sec too?
17:09	<japerry> Lns: aye
17:09	<Lns> cool ;)
17:09	<gbolte> hmm yeah they are all tiny gifs
17:09	weird
17:09	<japerry> so hmm the images that were attached to the faulty docs are small
17:09	<Lns> hrm
17:09	<japerry> what gbolte said.. so I'm not sure if this bug is related or not to that image bug
17:09	but it seems to have the same symptoms
17:09	<ogra> unlikely
17:09	<Lns> doesn't really sound like it to me either
17:09	<ogra> especially since thats suposed to be fixed upstream
17:09	<japerry> nad we'r
17:10	and we're using the newest version
17:10	<Lns> japerry, you guys can verify if you run xrestop while printing to see if pixmap usage spikes or not...or even 'watch -n 1 free -k' would tell you if it's a mem issue at all
17:10	if it spikes up after hitting print
17:10	<ogra> i would blame nvidia ... especially since nothing is actually involved in the printing that could even remotely touch the TC
17:11	<Lns> gbolte, can you guys print other stuff from other apps out fine?
17:11	<gbolte> yeah we should fire up a test client
17:11	hehe
17:11	Lns, yes
17:11	<ogra> and really rip out these 1G modules :) put them in the server
17:11	if your client uses more then 64M thats already much (excluding X)
17:12	<Lns> rargh..i have nvidia prop. drv issues right now too..building my office's new ltsp server
17:12	<japerry> ogra: heh the server has 8gb
17:12	<ogra> at least if you have that much ram on the graphicscard
17:12	<Lns> "low graphics mode" after installing linux-image-server
17:13	* ogra hasnt used clients with more then 256M (incl shared videoram) since years
17:16	<gbolte> lol my terminal client has 657MB free
17:16	<ogra> right
17:17	i wonder why though :)
17:17	<gbolte> cuz its cheaper to buy 1GB modules than 256mb
17:18	<ogra> no i wonder why your ltp uses up so much
17:18	*ltsp
17:18	<gbolte> 99MB
17:18	not sure
17:18	<ogra> 1G - 657M = 99M ?
17:18	* ogra wonders where gbolte learned math :)
17:18	<gbolte> -/+ buffers/cache: 95 660
17:20	<japerry> wheee here we go
17:20	* gbolte thinks ogra forgot about the 256 that is used for onboard gfx
17:21	<japerry> hmm odd
17:21	<ogra> gbolte, still way to much
17:22	you run the kernel, a sound daemon and the localdev stuff ... depending on how big your kernel is you should never use more then 64M excluding X
17:23	<japerry> hheh we can't reproduce the error
17:23	all the docs printed fine :-P
17:23	<Lns> Success! =p
17:23	<japerry> my system is using 80M
17:24	<Lns> I fixed it...haha
17:24	<ogra> plus graphics memory or including ?
17:24	80M would be quite ok
17:24	(including)
17:24	<japerry> ogra: just system, not inlcuding graphics
17:24	<ogra> thats a lot
17:25	you should do some research what eats all that ram
17:25	<japerry> I wonder if the nvidia driver and other kernel drivers are a part of that
17:25	<ogra> probably
17:27	<Lns> My kitchen sink leaks because of proprietary nvidia drivers
17:27	<gbolte> X is taking 6.1% of my ram
17:27	ssh is taking 1.3%
17:27	pulseaudio .7%
17:28	and sshd .4%
17:28	<ogra> sshd ?
17:28	<gbolte> those are the high rollers
17:28	<ogra> why would you run taht ?
17:28	<gbolte> why not
17:28	haha
17:29	<japerry> heh sshd running because, sigh, something is weird with ldm not allowing more than one console
17:29	<Lns> def. sounds like video driver issue to me then
17:30	japerry, you mean you can't CTRL+ALT+F1 at all?
17:30	<japerry> if you put SCREEN_01 = shell, SCREEN_07 = ldm or any combination of those two, or anything other than just ldm, it breaks
17:30	Lns: negative
17:30	<gbolte> nvidia 7135040 24
17:30	<japerry> and we don't really care for the employees to be able to either, so we just have ssh setup on the clients so we can access them. it works pretty well for remote mgmt
17:30	<ogra> intresting
17:31	<Lns> japerry, have you guys verified that the right nvidia driver is loading?
17:31	via thinclient /var/log ?
17:31	<gbolte> we have 3d accel if thats what you mean
17:31	<Lns> you guys using compiz or something?
17:31	<gbolte> we have yes, but not at the moment
17:32	<japerry> it appears when you have 25 clients doing desktop effects, it makes the server and clients not too happy
17:32	<Lns> riiight
17:32	haha
17:32	<ogra> it works fine if you use intel cards
17:32	<japerry> it could partially be that the nvidia integrated board isn't as good as its touted to be. It can do openGL fairly well, when it works -- but its also a little unstable
17:33	<ogra> nvidia and desktop effects always requires evil stuff like using xgl
17:33	<Lns> i've never had very good luck with nvidia
17:33	* ogra neither
17:33	<gbolte> we arent using xgl
17:33	<japerry> ogra: yah I'm thinking of moving to an intel line of systems next, with the new integrated intel drivers
17:33	<ogra> yeah, wait for the so called nettops and try to get them diskless
17:33	that makes a perfect client
17:34	<Lns> nettops?
17:34	<ogra> atom driven small PCs
17:34	<gbolte> wonder what the price is
17:35	<ogra> without disk they shouldnt be more expensive than any thin client you cn buy
17:35	like about $250
17:36	up to 300
17:36	<gbolte> ah
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17:36	<japerry> http://news.softpedia.com/newsImage/ASUS-G45-G43-Motherboards-to-Near-Launch-2.jpg
17:36	<stgraber> ogra: is it known that gnome doesn't show localdevs ?
17:36	<japerry> :-D
17:36	<ogra> while using a lot less power and still being more powerful
17:36	stgraber, it did for me
17:36	last week
17:38	<stgraber> ogra: hmm, weird, I inserted a cdrom. It appeared correctly in /media/stgraber/cdrom/ but it's not in the Places and nautilus didn't open a window
17:38	<ogra> strange
17:38	likely some gio glitch
17:39	upstream is actively hacking on gvfs gio
17:39	<stgraber> yes, I noticed some gvfs uploads recently
17:40	<gbolte> heh I remember us figuring that out in opensuse 11 beta
17:40	heh
17:40	<ogra> for the last gnome release it was quite a mess
17:41	only half done transitions are no fun
17:41	<japerry> ogra: yah gvfs still appears to have a ways to go
17:41	<ogra> it should be fine with the next gnome releae
17:41	but even thats still far out
17:43	<stgraber> inserting a CD in the server makes the nautilus window popup on the clients though
17:44	<ogra> lets ask seb tomorrow
18:02	<Lns> ogra, PA is installed/conf'd by default in ltsp install on hardy alternate install cd?
18:03	<ogra> PA is used since gutsy, yes
18:03	<Lns> oh
18:03	heh
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18:17	* ogra_cmpc does a happy dance
18:18	<stgraber> ogra: ?
18:18	<Gadi> yes?
18:19	<ogra_cmpc> last critical classmate bug ticked off
18:19	* Gadi passes ogra_cmpc a beer
18:19	<ogra_cmpc> heh, i already have one :)
18:19	but thanks
18:19	* Gadi takes back his unwanted beer
18:19	<Gadi> :)
18:20	<ogra_cmpc> drink it, i heard its kosher ;)
18:20	<Gadi> done
18:20	<ogra_cmpc> gulp
18:20	<Gadi> burp
18:21	<gbolte> classmate bug?
18:21	<ogra_cmpc> yeah, i had 8 critical ones before i can release the image
18:21	<gbolte> ah
18:21	I see
18:21	cool
18:21	<ogra_cmpc> and the last one seemed really unsolvable
18:22	but hammering it for three days with a handfull of kernel guys helped
18:22	"machine doesnt reboot after suspend"
18:23	so i'm 7 days early with my due date :)
18:23	* Gadi was surprised that the eeepc resumes after suspend
18:23	<ogra_cmpc> which means i can play with my new thin client on the weekend
18:23	<Gadi> I knew that was a hard one
18:23	<ogra_cmpc> eeepc shouldnt be a prob
18:24	it has the SSD attached to ATA
18:24	<Gadi> ah
18:24	right
18:24	yours is usb
18:24	<ogra_cmpc> right
18:24	but that fix went upstream already, its in 2.6.26
18:25	(which i cant use because i'm bound to hardy)
18:31	<gbolte> hmm my ubuntu pc at home wont reboot
18:31	lol
18:31	it just goes so far and then hangs
18:31	not sure what that is about
18:31	<ogra_cmpc> file a bug :)
18:31	<gbolte> but I just hit the power and then hit it again
18:32	<ogra_cmpc> that way it will never get fixed :)
18:32	complain ! :)
18:32	<gbolte> eh I dont know if its ubuntu that is the issue or not so I just dont worry about it
18:32	I dont reboot it enough to care
18:32	<ogra_cmpc> its likely a kernel issue
18:33	so otherws will be happy if you report it and some kernel guy fixes it
18:33	people that reboot more often
18:34	<gbolte> heh
18:35	well I would presume that if other people had the same issue there would already be a bug report if they were annoyed by it
18:35	:P
18:38	<Lns> jeez...vbox has like...no man pages whatsoever that i can find
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18:39	<ogra_cmpc> and since everybody thinks that no kernel dev will ever know (because they buy cool HW that never fails :P )
18:40	btw, that reminds me, if anyone runs into btil it would be nice if he could put the manpages in a separate branch so we can merge them for packaging with the tools
18:41	he just dumped them into the main doc branch
18:42	<gbolte> ogra_cmpc, well my pc at the house also has known hw bugs so I would not be too shocked if this was another one
18:43	good ol VIA chipset
18:43	:)
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18:47	<operador> ogra ?
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18:49	<operador>
18:49	need help with the performance of my server ltsp, the HD makes many operations of writing ... and the swap is not being used
18:50
18:50	using the top and ps aux I discovered that the daemon responsible for rad1 and the kjournald are constantly with status D
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20:16	<jammcq> hey all
20:18	<gbolte> hi
20:18	I should not be here still
20:19	<Ryan52> hello!
20:20	<gbolte> hi Ryan52
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21:41	<btil> hello all
21:47	guess there's nobody on, oh well...
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