IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 May 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:11 | <gnunux> hi
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| 00:35 | <html_inprogress> hi
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| 00:41 | <vlt> alkisg: Yes, LDM_DIRECTX=True is set and works (there's traffic on the x11-7 ports). The clients have at least 128 MB of RAM.
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| 01:00 | <alkisg> vlt: 128mb ram is low, you might want to disable compcache and enable a big nbd_swap
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| 01:25 | <vlt> alkisg: nbd_swap is 512 MB already. Why does the client need much RAM (now)?
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| 01:27 | <alkisg> vlt: to disable compcache, put "nocompcache" as a kernel parameter in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 01:28 | The clients need RAM mostly for local X bitmap caching
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| 01:28 | E.g. if you visit a site with large images, or if you use openoffice, you might need some hundred MB RAM just for bitmap caching...
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| 01:31 | <html_inprogress> can you make a linux cluster ?
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| 02:15 | <vlt> alkisg: Wouldn't it be better for real thin clients to do all the rendering and calculating on the (powerfull) server instead of putting more and more load to the client? I thought that was the whole point in having a terminal server infrastructure.
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| 02:16 | <alkisg> vlt: They do. That's just caching. It's a method that X offers to speed up drawing the same images over and over again.
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| 02:25 | <Hyperbyte> Hey alkisg, good morning. :-)
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| 02:25 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 02:26 | <Hyperbyte> We have a travel group in Crete at the moment. :)
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| 02:26 | Immediately thought of you, heheh.
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| 02:26 | * Hyperbyte works at a touroperator for disabled people | |
| 02:26 | <alkisg> Crete... best beaches I've ever seen
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| 02:27 | * alkisg wants to go there again this summer | |
| 02:27 | <Hyperbyte> Never been there actually...
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| 02:27 | But I process most of the travel pictures we receive, for online publication, so I know exactly what you're talking about. :)
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| 02:28 | <markit> hi alkisg :) I've been reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients and got frightened by a note at the end of the page, about KDE problems! Any news about those issued?
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| 02:29 | the "primary / elementar / 6-10 age" school I'm going to setup will have necessary fat clients (sound, animations, etc.)
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| 02:29 | <alkisg> I don't know, some people use the wiki like it's a bug tracker, and I got tired of deleting their entries...
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| 02:29 | Others had problems with the kiosk plugin and wrote them there too
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| 02:29 | (which is completely unrelated to fat clients)
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| 02:30 | <markit> "I am currently working on fixes for these, but any help would be greatly appreciated." seemd to be by the author of the page or one ltsp programmer
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| 02:30 | <alkisg> See the history, I bet it isn't
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| 02:30 | <markit> mmm so I have to test myself, hope is already fixed
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| 02:30 | <Hyperbyte> Always nice when people don't ~~~~. :-)
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| 02:30 | <alkisg> I guess they're just problems that the specific user had
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| 02:30 | <markit> any info about 11.04 kubuntu? I mean, better use 10.10?
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| 02:30 | <alkisg> Because of misconfiguration or other issues
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| 02:31 | <markit> alkisg: oh, yes, the story... btw I tried to edit the wiki time ago, but did not worked, don't remember if I was unable to get an account or what else, will try again in the near future
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| 02:32 | I've seen ltsp-chroot mentioned, that eases the work a lot
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| 02:32 | <alkisg> I deleted the KDE paragraph
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| 02:32 | But this page has changed radically since I wrote it, I don't recognise it anymore...
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| 02:33 | <markit> lol, hope it deleted the problems also :)
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| 02:33 | alkisg: mm scaring, since your knowledge is fare above average
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| 02:33 | <alkisg> What is scaring?
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| 02:33 | <markit> that people could have put wrong or misleading info there
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| 02:33 | <alkisg> I mean that the page changed, not that the implementation changed
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| 02:33 | <markit> (in good faith, I mean)
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| 02:33 | <alkisg> Yeah that's part of the wiki culture :(
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| 02:34 | <markit> important wiki are "supervised", I guess
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| 02:34 | you should have your own blog/wiki :)
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| 02:34 | I would rely on it instead of ubuntu one
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| 02:35 | <Hyperbyte> I would rely on alkisg instead of *.
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| 02:35 | <markit> any known problems wiht _buntu 11.04?
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| 02:35 | (related with ltsp, of course)
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| 02:35 | <alkisg> Haha that's not feasible, I only wrote 10 pages or so, but the wiki has hundreds
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| 02:36 | I don't know about 11.04, I'm sticking to LTS
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| 02:36 | <markit> better have 10 pages of knowledge than 100 of confusion
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| 02:36 | <alkisg> That's unfair, many of those are good pages
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| 02:36 | But you're right that there might be incorrect info there
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| 02:36 | <markit> sure, but how can I know if has been "improved" in a wrong way?
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| 02:36 | exactly
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| 02:37 | <alkisg> That's what sbalneav thought too, and has the ltsp upstream docs in docbook instead of wiki
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| 02:37 | <vlt> alkisg: Is there a way to disable this behaviour? From my 400 MHz/110 MB client, for example, I can work really fast on the server when running just vncviewer, so my local X nearly doesn't have to do anything (plus: I can reconnect to my session from everywhere).
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| 02:37 | <alkisg> vlt: did you disable compcache?
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| 02:38 | X isn't slow, it's faster than VNC
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| 02:38 | But compcache compresses RAM and it wastes a lot of CPU cycles compressing/decompressing it
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| 02:38 | <vlt> alkisg: Ok, I'll try that. Thanks.
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| 02:40 | alkisg: To the "kernel" line or the "append" line?
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| 02:43 | <Hyperbyte> <alkisg> vlt: to disable compcache, put "nocompcache" as a kernel parameter in
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| 02:43 | /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 02:44 | Sorry, append.
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| 02:44 | :)
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| 02:44 | Misread you for a second there.
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| 02:44 | Kernel specifies name of the kernel to use (has to be correct filename, else no boot)... append specifies parameters.
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| 02:48 | alkisg, there's something that's been bugging me... Warren was talking about Gnome 3 being problematic with LTSP, because of some client hardware that doesn't support compositing
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| 02:48 | Which made me curious... why would the client need to support compositing, if the whole desktop runs on the server?
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| 02:48 | <alkisg> Compositing runs on the x server
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| 02:49 | Which is on the client (afaik, I'm relatively new to linux, no X expert)
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| 02:49 | I guess he means gnome-shell, not the whole gnome 3 framework
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| 02:50 | So the old UI or unity-2d should still work
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| 02:53 | <Hyperbyte> So what exactly is Gnome-shell?
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| 02:54 | <alkisg> Canonical has unity as the gnome 3 interface, while upstream gnome has gnome-shell instead
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| 02:54 | It's the framework for the base UI. Windows, notifications, system menus etc
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| 02:54 | *window decorations, I mean
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| 02:54 | <vlt> alkisg: I disabled compcache but there's no speed improvement instantly noticable. The main problem seems to be working with OOo. Sometimes you can write two words in a document before they appear on the screen.
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| 02:54 | <alkisg> vlt: run this:
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| 02:54 | ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 02:55 | On the xterm that will open, run:
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| 02:55 | ps aux > output
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| 02:55 | Paste the output to http://pastebin.com
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| 02:55 | <vlt> alkisg: On the client or server?
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| 02:55 | <alkisg> Client
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| 02:55 | That's to see the ram usage
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| 02:55 | <vlt> alkisg: Does it have to be xterm or os a remote ssh connection fine, too?
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| 02:56 | <alkisg> If you have remote ssh to your clients, sure, you can use that
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| 02:56 | <vlt> alkisg: ok
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| 02:56 | <alkisg> But not ssh to the server. To the client.
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| 02:56 | <vlt> alkisg: Yes, the client
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| 02:57 | <alkisg> With 128mb ram every MB counts. So I wouldn't install sshd to clients with such little ram.
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| 02:58 | compcache takes 25% of free ram, so it should instantly improve things
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| 02:58 | But you should also disable anything else that's not really needed to run in the client
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| 02:58 | <vlt> alkisg: http://pastebin.com/QPQ4M9Rg -- That's on a 256 MB machine.
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| 02:58 | <alkisg> vlt: disable nbd-proxy too
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| 02:59 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
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| 02:59 | Need to go, bb all
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| 03:01 | <Hyperbyte> vlt, how much ram are your clients trying to use?
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| 03:01 | Just out of curiousity.
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| 03:04 | <vlt> Hyperbyte: http://pastebin.com/QPQ4M9Rg is the output of `ps axu` on a 256 MB client
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| 03:05 | <Hyperbyte> How long has the client been running?
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| 03:05 | <vlt> Hyperbyte: Only a few minutes (after disabling compcache).
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| 03:06 | <Hyperbyte> Run a free -m
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| 03:06 | How many megabytes are under used for "mem" and "swap" ?
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| 03:09 | <vlt> Hyperbyte: RAM: 204 of 228 used. SWAP: 0 of 512 used.
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| 03:10 | <Hyperbyte> So you need to shave off 80 MB ram.
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| 03:13 | <vlt> Hyperbyte: What does your calculation look like?
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| 03:14 | Hyperbyte: (and what does "shave off RAM" mean to you?)
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| 03:28 | <Hyperbyte> My calculation looks like 204 used, 128 available on clients... 204 - 128 = ~80
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| 03:28 | Heh
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| 03:29 | And "shave off" means disabling things that use up RAM, like the SSHD you have running
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| 03:35 | <Hyperbyte> See what happens when you put X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 in lts.conf
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| 03:35 | Decreases color depth from 24 bits to 16 bits... might bring X memory usage down a little
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| 04:32 | <nesusvet> hello guys, when i use ltsp and try to ssh on the target server, and try to read some log file during that ssh session, the session is hanging on
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| 04:41 | <Hyperbyte> What is the command you use to read the log file?
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| 04:41 | <nesusvet> less
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| 04:41 | But sometimes is works, sometime it does't work :)
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| 04:42 | <Hyperbyte> And it freezes completely?
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| 04:43 | <nesusvet> not completely.
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| 04:43 | I need relogin after that
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| 04:44 | But it seems totally strange, because this is high load network server, and other servers working properly
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| 04:45 | Hyperbyte,
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| 04:47 | <Hyperbyte> Be patient please. I'm at work. I don't mind giving some of my time to you, but I do have other things to do. :)
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| 04:48 | Could it be that there's some binary data in the logfiles that messes up your terminal?
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| 04:48 | <nesusvet> hmm, i am definitely patient :).
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| 04:49 | No, it could't because i am trying take a look just into the syslog file for example
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| 04:49 | and some time I can do that on that machine
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| 04:50 | we uses ubuntu server kernel on the ltsp clients
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| 04:52 | Another issue which we have found out, that when JVM process is working, some process trying to use CPU time, and JVM start lagging :)
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| 04:53 | * markit thinks java is a pain in the a.. | |
| 04:54 | <nesusvet> heh :), I also think so, but it work stably on other servers also.
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| 04:54 | But one server has a strange behavior which i described above
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| 04:56 | I double checked server on some network collisions and other network errors, and it seems roots of fails grows from another place.
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| 04:59 | <markit> sorry, my english is poor... what do you mean with "it seems roots of fails grows from another place"?
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| 05:00 | <nesusvet> my english is poor also :)
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| 05:13 | Nick change: moldy_ -> moldy | |
| 05:38 | <Ghidorah> Does anyone know where the Terminal logs on LTSP-CLuster Control Center are stored?
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| 05:56 | <nesusvet> Thanks
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| 05:57 | everyone
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| 05:57 | :)
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| 05:57 | it seems we found out the reason of fails
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| 06:09 | <Hyperbyte> Do share. :)
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| 06:37 | <markit> nesusvet: we are curoius
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| 06:38 | <nesusvet> Yes, but i am a little busy like Hyperbyte
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| 06:38 | :)
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| 06:40 | well, first, i found out the reason lack on the JVM machine, the was that NFS server always losted connections.\
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| 06:43 | But i still can't find the reason why i can read files via ssh sessions
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| 07:13 | <Hyperbyte> So what happens exactly?
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| 07:14 | Do you have to quit the 'less' process with ctrl+c, or do you have to kill the process, or?
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| 09:27 | <Gadi_eeepc> mgariepy: ping
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| 09:44 | highvoltage: u there?
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| 09:46 | <highvoltage> Gadi_eeepc: yep
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| 09:47 | <Gadi_eeepc> hey, is there a command I can run against an lstp-cluster-lbagent to check if it responds?
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| 09:47 | (like a wget or an nc or some such)
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| 09:48 | * Gadi_eeepc is trying to figure out why the windows lbagent is not responding | |
| 09:49 | <highvoltage> it uses xmlrpc, I think there's a test script somewhere that you can use to test it...
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| 09:50 | <highvoltage> stgraber: do you remember off-hand whether there's something available to test lbagent with?
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| 09:51 | <highvoltage> Gadi_eeepc: did you try telnetting it on port 8000?
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| 09:51 | (I think that's where it's supposed to listen)
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| 09:51 | <Gadi_eeepc> yeah, it is lisstening
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| 09:52 | I want to try and query it for values
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| 09:52 | I try the wget against the lbserver, but it comes up empty
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| 09:52 | so, I wanted to try it directly
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| 09:55 | <Gadi_eeepc> found it
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| 09:55 | <stgraber> highvoltage: wget http://localhost:8008/ -O - -q
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| 09:55 | <Gadi_eeepc> yeah, Ive done that
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| 09:55 | <stgraber> oh, lbagent
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| 09:55 | nope, though it should log something
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| 09:56 | <Gadi_eeepc> "can't encode character u'\xae' in position 9: ordinal not in range
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| 09:57 | does that error sound familiar?
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| 09:57 | that's in the log
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| 09:57 | ah... that's in the DISTRO value
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| 09:58 | <stgraber> looks like an utf8 issue
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| 09:58 | or similar encoding problems
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| 09:58 | <Gadi_eeepc> u'Microsoft\xae Windows ....
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| 09:58 | hmm...
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| 09:59 | have you guys used this on W2k8r2?
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| 10:01 | looks like the error is in the code that updates the db
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| 10:02 | "Error updating node"
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| 10:03 | <mgariepy> hey Gadi_eeepc i'm here now !
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| 10:03 | <Gadi_eeepc> mgariepy: hey hey
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| 10:04 | have you used lbagent on w2k8r2?
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| 10:04 | <mgariepy> nop
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| 10:04 | <Gadi_eeepc> starting to see that :)
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| 10:04 | well, consider this a bug report
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| 10:04 | :D
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| 10:04 | <mgariepy> LOL
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| 10:05 | in lbserver
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| 10:05 | do you have logs ?
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| 10:06 | <Gadi_eeepc> yeah, but that's the only interesting part
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| 10:06 | <mgariepy> what does it say ?
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| 10:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi_eeepc: sort of related question pertaining to win2k8r2: have you attempted to authenticate against Windows AD without using Likewise yet?
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| 10:06 | <Gadi_eeepc> Error updating node: can't encode character u'\xae' in position 9: ordinal not in range ....
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| 10:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> I am having problems finding proper documentation on the process
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| 10:06 | <Gadi_eeepc> and when I run the test_comm.py against the agent
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| 10:06 | I see the unicode characters in the DISTRO key
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| 10:07 | _UsUrPeR_: before yo u go down a rabbit hole, contact likewise and have them send you the latest revision
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| 10:07 | of version 6
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| 10:08 | version 5 has issues on a multiuser system
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| 10:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi_eeepc: The reason we are bypassing that, is because it seemed to have sporadic login failures. Is that something you had experienced?
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| 10:08 | <Gadi_eeepc> _UsUrPeR_: ah *without*
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| 10:08 | I read too quickly
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| 10:09 | yeah, the agent would freeze
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| 10:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> specifically, likewise appeared to truncate the set domain name occaisionally during an LTSP client login
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| 10:09 | <Gadi_eeepc> and bring not only new logins but the whole system to its knees
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| 10:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> precisely
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| 10:09 | <Gadi_eeepc> but, they claimed to have addressed it
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| 10:09 | in recent versions of 6
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| 10:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> the user attempting to login would have his info sent to the Windows server as such: dude@place.thing.
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| 10:10 | <Gadi_eeepc> but, I have not tried it since I had egg all over my face
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| 10:10 | :)
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| 10:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, well I appreciate the heads up. Perhaps I should do some testing on this process.
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| 10:10 | with likewise...
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| 10:10 | still, I think that bypassing likewise all together is going to be required. Have you seen anything pertaining to a manual process?
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| 10:11 | <Gadi_eeepc> has anyone tried rdesktop 1.7 with session broker?
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| 10:12 | <Gadi_eeepc> _UsUrPeR_: you mean windbind, samba, kerberos and the like?
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| 10:12 | <mgariepy> Gadi_eeepc, does it works ?
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| 10:12 | freerdp is supposed to work with session broker no ?
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| 10:12 | <Gadi_eeepc> mgariepy: it is supposed to have improved performance
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| 10:12 | freerdp is supposed to work, too
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| 10:13 | <Gadi_eeepc> but, I am having trouble making a deb from git
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| 10:13 | and the latest deb 0.8.2 has issues that were fixed
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| 10:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi_eeepc: I am focusing just on authentication right now. No Samba, nothing pertaining to the extraneous features you get with AD
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| 10:13 | <Gadi_eeepc> _UsUrPeR_: you need samba for auth
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| 10:14 | I think
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| 10:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> ORLY
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| 10:14 | <Gadi_eeepc> I think windbind looks in smb.conf
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| 10:14 | for the user id mapping
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| 10:14 | <mgariepy> ls
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| 10:14 | oops :)
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| 10:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> huh. What's the purpose of Kerberos in this equation of Samba is used for auth?
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| 10:14 | <Gadi_eeepc> mgariepy: if you have a freerdp deb, Ive got a screen script
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| 10:15 | :)
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| 10:15 | _UsUrPeR_: kerberos auths the computer
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| 10:15 | samba auths the users
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| 10:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> ahh, gotcha
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| 10:15 | <Gadi_eeepc> oh, and dont forget ldap
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| 10:15 | :)
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| 10:16 | there's a likewise competitor, too
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| 10:16 | I forget the name atm
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| 10:17 | otavio: you wouldnt happen to have a deb of freerdp from git trunk, would you?
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| 10:17 | <otavio> Gadi_eeepc: I don't
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| 10:17 | <Gadi_eeepc> :(
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| 10:18 | I had issues with dpkg-gensymbols
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| 10:18 | <otavio> Gadi_eeepc: specially because it has changed a lot since 0.8.2
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| 10:18 | Gadi_eeepc: so it needs fixes on the packaging side
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| 10:18 | <Gadi_eeepc> ok
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| 10:19 | maybe I'll just build it in the chroot for now
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| 10:19 | though, I hate doing that
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