IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 February 2012 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <vagrantc> and then the versions of ldm that support it can just assume it's there.
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| 00:01 | stgraber: and it just adds a python dependency to ldm?
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| 00:02 | <stgraber> vagrantc: yep
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| 00:02 | <vagrantc> seems simple enough to me.
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| 00:03 | <stgraber> yep and will make Alkis happy ;)
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| 00:05 | <vagrantc> 5 more days till ldm hits testing ... do i want to delay that?
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| 00:05 | i guess i could upload with urgency medium on friday.
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| 00:06 | since it's a very small change.
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| 00:07 | <stgraber> vagrantc: as long as I can sync it before the 16th, I'm happy
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| 00:08 | <vagrantc> stgraber: might be as late as the 14th
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| 00:08 | <stgraber> vagrantc: did you update ldm-trunk with the change to screen.d/ldm already?
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| 00:08 | <vagrantc> stgraber: not yet, but can.
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| 00:09 | what i thought would be a simple packaging change may actually require changes to trunk
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| 00:13 | ldm should install ldminfod from the autofoo stuff
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| 00:13 | otherwise i've got to hack it in debian/rules, as ldm.install: debian/tmp/*
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| 00:14 | <stgraber> right ... how do we make autofoo install something in two different places? ;)
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| 00:14 | * stgraber guesses this will end up with some manual Makefile.am stuff doing a cp... | |
| 00:14 | <vagrantc> well, right now it doesn't handle ldminfod at all ...
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| 00:15 | ldminfod is installed in ldm-server.install manually
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| 00:15 | essentially
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| 00:16 | <stgraber> can't you also list "ldminfod/ldminfod usr/share/ldm/ldminfod" in ldm.install then?
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| 00:16 | <vagrantc> alternately, ldm-server.install could install it from debian/tmp/usr/share/ldminfod /usr/sbin/
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| 00:17 | stgraber: at one point debheper either supported specifying both source and destination, or just source with an implicit destination ... don't know if you can do both.
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| 00:17 | that would be the easiest fix.
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| 00:17 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I seem to remember seeing a package doing that this week but I'm not completely sure ;) should be easy enough to test though
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| 00:18 | * stgraber tests | |
| 00:20 | <stgraber> vagrantc: works fine
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| 00:21 | <vagrantc> yay.
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| 00:21 | then i can just patch it from ldm-trunk
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| 00:21 | and not bother with a new upstream tarball
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| 00:22 | <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/834651/
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| 00:22 | yeah, not worth releasing a new tarball for a one line change really (I've done it before though and with much less than this change ...)
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| 00:23 | <vagrantc> two line change :)
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| 00:23 | <stgraber> IIRC the ltsp release with the smallest delta ever was 2 chars
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| 00:23 | <vagrantc> ok, i'll commit and maybe push it friday.
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| 00:24 | <stgraber> 4 chars actually ...
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| 00:24 | bzr diff -r tag:ltsp-5.2.12..tag:ltsp-5.2.13
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| 00:28 | <vagrantc> meh. bzr default diff format doesn't match quilt's default diff format
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| 00:29 | just need to use --prefix
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| 00:38 | stgraber: pushed to bzr, will test and upload friday.
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| 00:38 | (both to -trunk and my packaging branch)
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| 00:43 | <stgraber> cool, thanks!
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| 00:44 | <vagrantc> stgraber: will you be uploading ltsp-trunk to ubuntu soon?
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| 00:45 | stgraber: and did you notice a new version of epoptes in debian?
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| 00:45 | <stgraber> alkis found a good list of issues to fix in ltsp-trunk before it's ready for upload
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| 00:45 | there are also a bunch of packaging fixes to do
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| 00:46 | worst case scenario, I upload what I have on Thursday a few minutes before the freeze ;)
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| 00:46 | for epoptes, I believe alkis synced it already, now that he knows how to do it and has upload rights in Ubuntu
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| 00:49 | <vagrantc> ah!
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| 00:49 | cool.
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| 04:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc, stgraber: I'm thinking of removing RC_WHITELIST from ltsp-build-client, and putting a form of blacklist in initramfs-scripts.d instead
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| 04:27 | Sounds ok?
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| 04:28 | REMOVE_SERVICES=, REMOVE_AUTOSTART_ITEMS=, stuff like that
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| 04:29 | stgraber: the tty[2-6].conf deletion would go there too
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| 04:30 | Also, vagrantc, I'd like to add a --mount-dev and a --mount-all option in ltsp-chroot, but I have problems with the single letter options,
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| 04:30 | so I'm thinking to map --mount-dev-pts to -t, --mount-dev to -d, and --mount-all to -m
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| 04:40 | vagrantc: another thing... we currently need NBD_NAMED=True for ltsp-update-image to work correctly on newer installations, can we change to that being the default?
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| 04:40 | I.e. I'd use NBD_INETD=True instead, or even remove support for inetd completely, unless you need that for any backports
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| 04:42 | stgraber: should I commit the change for NBD_COMP as well? Maybe if you need that in -cluster, you could ship that ltsp-update-image.conf file in a ltsp-cluster-* package?
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| 04:45 | <stgraber> alkisg: I don't really care about cluster anymore ;) so if the folks at RLNX have an issue with it, they'll find a way around it.
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| 04:45 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 04:45 | stgraber: about the WHITELIST change? are you ok with that?
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| 04:46 | <stgraber> well, it shouldn't make any difference whether we remove at build time or from initramfs, so yeah I'm fine as long as we keep the current list
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| 04:46 | <alkisg> stgraber: blacklist == the opposite of whitelist == the list we currently have
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| 04:46 | So we can't keep it
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| 04:46 | I'll have to make a list of services that we don't want
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| 04:47 | I think that's safer, we have 3-4 bugs in launchpad about services we do delete and that we shouldn't
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| 04:47 | (e.g. power management for laptops)
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| 04:47 | <stgraber> right ... I'm not necessarily against it but we need to make sure we don't start more things than we do currently without a very good reason
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| 04:47 | power management being one thing we really shouldn't start
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| 04:48 | as a lot of cheap thin clients report themselves as laptops
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| 04:48 | and so are laptops without battery which may trigger emergency suspend
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| 04:48 | <alkisg> I mean the part about cpu governors etc, where the clients overheat if one doesn't start that
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| 04:48 | <stgraber> that's usually pretty bad on nbd ;)
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| 04:49 | <alkisg> I'll try my best, to cover at least a default fat client installation with ubuntu, but I'm sure we'll need to blacklist more services in the future
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| 04:49 | But I do think blacklisting is better than whitelisting in this case
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| 04:50 | E.g. if someone installs inetd in the chroot, he expects it to start on boot
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| 04:50 | <stgraber> ok, do the changes in trunk so I can get a new snapshot with that early enough ... I'm starting to be a bit scared of all these changes with so little time to test
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| 04:51 | <alkisg> OK, will do most of them today, and some tomorrow if I don't have time for all of them today
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| 04:51 | <stgraber> though I made sure the current version (patched 5.2.16) works fine, so the worst case scenario is still to revert to that one if we see too many bugs after the Feature Freeze
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| 04:52 | <alkisg> stgraber: is another thing like compcache started by default nowadays? I didn't look...
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| 04:53 | <stgraber> I don't like the idea of maintaing that old version for 5 years, but I don't really want to end up having a broken ltsp either ;) so we'll see what we have by the 16th
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| 04:53 | alkisg: I'm not sure, there's something replacing compcache for sure but I don't know if it's started automatically or what it's really
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| 04:53 | anyway, enough work for today ... talk to you tomorrow (well, later for you ;))
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| 04:54 | <alkisg> All I can say is that the result will work better than the old version for me, closing a few bugs we have. I don't know if other ones will emerge and go unnoticed :-/
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| 04:54 | 'night stgraber :)
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| 05:04 | vagrantc: I'll check the irclogs for answers, bbl
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| 06:42 | <alkisg> knipwim: hi, I'm planning on adding a --mount-dev option to ltsp-chroot, have a few minutes to talk about how that works in Gentoo?
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| 06:43 | On Ubuntu, I have those:
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| 06:43 | udev /dev devtmpfs rw,relatime,size=2033724k,nr_inodes=206624,mode=755 0 0
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| 06:43 | devpts /dev/pts devpts rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000 0
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| 06:43 | So /dev needs to be mounted before /dev/pts. Both of them are needed to avoid errors while installing programs in the chroot.
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> knipwim-work: hello, do you have a few minutes to talk about ltsp-chroot?
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| 08:28 | <knipwim-work> alkisg: in about half an hour i think
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| 08:29 | <alkisg> knipwim-work: thanks, ping me then
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> knipwim-work: whenever you have some time, just check that you're ok in Gentoo with the modifications I committed to ltsp-chroot: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/changes
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| 09:15 | <knipwim-work> alkisg: check
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| 09:15 | as in, i'll take a look now
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| 09:15 | <andygraybeal> happy morning everyone :)
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> knipwim-work: actually I'll push --overwrite in a couple of minutes because I forgot to describe the new commands, but that'll make no difference for gentoo
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| 09:17 | (done)
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| 09:17 | Good morning andygraybeal
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| 09:17 | <andygraybeal> morning alkis :) how is greece?
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Same, we're learning to leave on air instead of food
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| 09:18 | <andygraybeal> hahahaha :)
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> *live
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| 09:20 | <andygraybeal> southeastern ohio is in uproar about hydrolic fracturing for gas well drilling
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| 09:20 | it's so small around here that even i know the politicians that are arguing
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| 09:20 | i know one of them personally even
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| 09:21 | <knipwim-work> alkisg: looks fine to me
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| 09:21 | i like the mount-all option
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> knipwim-work: nice... out of curiosity, gentoo doesn't have anything mounted in /dev/pts ?
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| 09:21 | I.e. grep dev/pts /proc/mounts, returns nothing?
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| 09:22 | <knipwim-work> on my workstation it does
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> Sounds like everything is fine then :)
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| 09:22 | Thanks
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| 09:22 | <knipwim-work> but i never had any problems not mounting the dev/pts in a chroot
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> You never saw warnings about "could not get a pty, is /dev/pts mounted?
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| 09:23 | <knipwim-work> not in the chroot
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| 09:24 | when installing gentoo as a distro (not ltsp specifically), there is no mention in the official install manual
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| 09:24 | when chrooting
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> OK, looks like you don't need that option then, np
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| 09:28 | <knipwim-work> is there a release pending?
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> I'm trying to get some stuff for Precise, I don't know if there'll be an ltsp release
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| 09:54 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, i wonder why the session never dies after i say 'OK' with the script?
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| 09:55 | i can have two sessions running without a problem... does it have to do the processes are running specifically on the client, and not on the server?
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> andygraybeal: because it only kills the ssh and sshfs connection, not the remote, fat session
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| 10:00 | andygraybeal: remember the 3 options? This is again the 3rd, "bad" one
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| 10:00 | If you do need that, then I can make a listener on the client side, to try to exit cleanly
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| 10:01 | But in any case unsaved data will be lost
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| 10:01 | <muppis> Couldn't get gnome-shell working in 11.10. Unity 2D works fine, but I do not like it.
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> That's why we agreed it's a bad idea and you should encourage users to never do that
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| 10:02 | <muppis> And battle with myself? Trying to use that in my own network, not for customers. :)
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| 10:02 | <alkisg> muppis - I'm still talking to andygraybeal, in case you think I'm talking to you
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| 10:02 | (01:55:26 μμ) andygraybeal: i can have two sessions running without a problem... ==> you shouldn't be able to, after clicking OK the sshfs connection of the previous session should be lost
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| 10:03 | <muppis> alkisg, sorry. Nick at first might help. :)
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> muppis: I put the nicks every time I start talking to a different person
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| 10:03 | So that line is for you,
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| 10:03 | andygraybeal: and that line is for andygraybeal, etc
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| 10:04 | <muppis> alkisg, I use it always when multiple conversations are going on to avoid misunderstandings.
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| 10:04 | <alkisg> Yup, I never started multiple conversations at that point, I was only talking to andygraybeal
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| 10:04 | Anyways
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| 10:05 | <muppis> Keep on going. I go for lunch. :)
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| 13:05 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, thank you for the explanation. I do remember that option three is a 'bad' one. I will explain this to my users. I wonder if you could make i so that it kills the remote fat session?
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| 13:05 | <alkisg> andygraybeal: yes, but I'll have to use another program as ldm-dialog can't offer 3 options to the users
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| 13:06 | Hmm maybe [ok] will kill the session anyway
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| 13:06 | andygraybeal: that part will be hacky though, as normally you can't execute commands from the server to the client, it's insecure
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| 13:07 | <andygraybeal> ah insecure, i had no idea
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| 13:07 | <alkisg> You want to run commands on another pc
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| 13:07 | It's not very bad as you have to be logged in as the same user
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| 13:08 | <andygraybeal> the thing is, i need to know how to explain how this works to people when they have questions. i have one person in particular that is a little whiny bizz when it comes to these things and he's always complaining about this or that.
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| 13:08 | <alkisg> Well no problem from me I can implement what you want, but doesn't he understand that what he asks is bad?
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| 13:08 | I.e. to be able to kill his sessions without saving his work?
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| 13:08 | <andygraybeal> if killing the fat client is not possible becuase of security reasons, that is good enough for me to tell him that he needs to take care of his own effin logins.. because this is all basically for one very drunken whiney as bizz
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| 13:09 | alkisg, yea, he understands. he thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread because he's to druink to ever rememeber to log out and he "_never_" has any unsaved data.
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> No, what I mean is that the script will be hacky in order to access the client processes
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| 13:09 | Not that any additional security holes will be necessary
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| 13:10 | <andygraybeal> ah okay.
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> The security holes are already there :P
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| 13:10 | <andygraybeal> well, if you could do that, it would be a little easier on me with dealing with this guy
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> I'll do it in a few days, ok?
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| 13:10 | <andygraybeal> this is fine, please take your time. thank you so much so far.
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> np
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| 13:11 | <andygraybeal> do you think that in the future, others will be able to take advantage of this.. or do you think.. that your making custom things for me that is a waste of time overall?
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> So and so. The proper way would be to modify ldm so that it automatically disconnects the user if it detects a broken ssh connection,
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| 13:12 | but I don't want to invest in that, as in the future I hope ldm will completely go away,
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| 13:12 | <andygraybeal> ah interesting.
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> so while your script isn't the best approach, it'll probably still work after ldm goes away,
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| 13:14 | and, for proper implementation, we'll need to look at how to do it when libpam_ssh, lightdm etc are in use
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| 13:14 | <andygraybeal> *nods - do you expect ldm to go away in the next LTS?
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> In 14.04? Maybe...
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| 13:14 | <andygraybeal> cool
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| 13:15 | bbl, i got to spend my time in the wiring closet for an hour or such
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| 13:15 | <alkisg> bb :)
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| 14:05 | <[GuS]> knipwim: new stage3 stil have the XML parser problem :(
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| 14:52 | <andygraybeal> gah.. no time stamping.. but i just got back from the closet
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| 14:52 | i can't irc without timestamps, drives me nuts
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| 15:13 | <[GuS]> knipwim: i think i found the solution... ltsp has by default usepkg on emerge, so i think is using the binary package from my server.
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| 15:47 | * Hyperbyte hugs andygraybeal | |
| 15:47 | * andygraybeal smooches Hyperbyte HI HI HI | |
| 15:48 | <Hyperbyte> :-D
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| 15:48 | <andygraybeal> hows it go man? i had a bit of sickness/depression for a jaunt there!
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| 15:48 | i'm all better now!!
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| 15:48 | <Hyperbyte> =D
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| 15:49 | <andygraybeal> what are you working on Hyperbyte ?
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| 15:52 | throwing inkscape onto my image, i can't work without inkscape
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| 15:57 | if ya got inkscape, you might as well throw scribus on there too
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| 15:59 | must drink moar coffee
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| 17:16 | <stgraber> alkisg: let me know when you want a new ltsp trunk snapshot in the ppa
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| 17:17 | <alkisg> stgraber: I'm thinking of completely removing the whitelist stuff, and then run ltsp-build-client and see which services we want removed
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| 17:17 | If you agree, tomorrow I'd like a snapshot, not today
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| 17:17 | To push a few of the changes first
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| 17:19 | If you (or anyone else) has specific services that wants disabled in thin/fat clients, please mention them here
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| 17:19 | <stgraber> alkisg: ok, go ahead. I'll make a snapshot tomorrow morning
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| 17:20 | alkisg: I guess I'd need to look at what we'll get in a standard thin client install, then make a blacklist from there
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> Yup, I'll do that too from a fat chroot
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| 17:20 | I'll introduce some new variables like RM_SERVICES, RM_FAT_SERVICES, RM_AUTOSTART etc
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| 17:21 | With reasonable defaults, but the user can modify them if he wants (maybe even RM_FILES for the user)
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| 17:22 | stgraber: I'll leave the nbd-client service running, which makes the reboot/shutdown upstart scripts unnecessary
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| 17:22 | (i.e. it puts the service to sendsigs_omit etc)
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| 17:23 | Btw if we could also remove that debconf frontend=nontinteractive, for ltsp-build-client... i think it would be much better for the users
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| 17:24 | E.g. instead of having to go through debseeds, a user could just accept the msttcorefonts eula, the java eula etc
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| 17:27 | stgraber: the (lucid) list of disabled services is in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/61207189/disabled-services
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| 17:28 | We surely don't want unattended-upgrades
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| 17:29 | But for speed/ram, we may also remove many others. I'll do some ram/boot speed tests.
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| 17:34 | <stgraber> alkisg: some of these (unattended being one) have been moved to cron jobs too, we'd need to make sure to turn these off too
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| 18:04 | * alkisg checks if /usr/share/gconf/defaults/10_ltsp_fat_client are still respected... | |
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> vagrantc, stgraber: in 030-fat-clients we have the following, which would be nice if they could be moved to ldm.postinst:
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| 18:20 | # Prevent other display managers from starting
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| 18:20 | mkdir -p "$ROOT/etc/X11"
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| 18:20 | echo '/usr/sbin/ldm' > "$ROOT/etc/X11/default-display-manager"
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| 18:20 | echo 'ldm shared/default-x-display-manager select ldm' | chroot "$ROOT" debconf-set-selections
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| 18:21 | OK I know it's not the full protocol, but it's a good start
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it would be a policy violation to not implement the full protocol.
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> vagrantc: isn't it a policy violation to start it without implementing the protocol at all?
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the entire protocol can be summarized as "suffer".
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> Is "nothing" better than "something"?
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| 18:22 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what we're doing now is not part of the package maintainer scripts, it's a direct sysadmin action comprable to editing a configuration file.
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| 18:22 | and thus, policy compliant to the letter, if not the spirit.
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ok, can the ldm package then drop a script that does that on startup, in initscripts.d ?
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| 18:23 | <vagrantc> if we started doing what you're doing, ldm may silently get removed.
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| 18:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that's a more clean opttion.
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> (08:23:42 μμ) vagrantc: if we started doing what you're doing, ldm may silently get removed. ==> I'm not sure I get that
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| 18:24 | <vagrantc> although it's less transparent.
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> Currently, without those lines, gdm is started in chroots
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| 18:24 | So the "policy clean way" results in a broken chroot
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| 18:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if gdm gets installed?
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> Yes, that's the problem with fat chroots
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| 18:25 | So ldm would have to "Conflict:gdm" if that was the case
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> doing it at boot would be better.
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> OK... we don't have the time to do it cleanly, i.e. to implement the whole protocol, so 2 options -
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| 18:25 | if we have time to put that as an initscript.d in ldm, I think it'd be a bit cleaner,
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| 18:26 | otherwise we can leave it ubuntu-specific in 030-fat-chroot, as is
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> i think doing it at boot is the way to go, as long as we add a configurable option to either not run it, or what to put into it.
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i think that configuration file is specific to debian and derivatives anyways
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| 18:27 | so it's not a cross-distro configuration thing.
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| 18:27 | (beyond that debian dervatives share it)
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> Another thing... about that initramfs-scripts.d/common + Ubuntu dirs
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| 18:27 | First, isn't that a bad name? They're not initramfs scripts...
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> they're scripts run from the initramfs.
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> Second, wouldn't it be better to run all common scripts AND the distro specific scripts? No need for a lot of symlinks then...
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| 18:28 | They run from the initramfs with /proc etc mounted, chrooted etc, so it doesn't make much difference that they're ran at the initramfs stage
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you'd need to resolve merging of the two dirs like we do with ltsp-build-client plugins... folks thought it was too complicated.
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| 18:29 | i would have preferred to not do symlinks, but i gave in to popular will.
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> Hehe :)
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> many of them need to be run at the initramfs stage in order for boot to work.
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> About rc_whitelist, I'm removing it from ubuntu, do you want me to remove the references to it from debian too?
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| 18:30 | I think blacklists, e.g. RM_SERVICES=xxx will be better
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've stopped doing any whitelisting by default
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> Again from initramfs-scripts.d
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| 18:30 | Right, but do you still want that file? for backwards compatibility or something?
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> i'm willing to let it go.
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| 18:30 | i.e. kill it off :)
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> Nice :)
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> i don't think it works on any current version of debian
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| 18:31 | because insserv re-enables everything anyways.
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> And, if you have any nice names for the RM_SERVICES stuff... I was thinking, RM_SERVICES, RM_THIN_SERVICES (more services to delete specifically on thin chroots), RM_AUTOSTART (/etc/xdg/autostart items), and an lts.conf option RM_FILES or something
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> why not just RM_FILES ?
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> To be somewhat cross distro, we can list services, and ubuntu will delete them from /etc/init, while debian from /etc/init.d,
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| 18:33 | and, I think one might want to prevent a service from running on thin clients, while leaving it running on fats,
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| 18:34 | and the autostart items are searched in other dirs... and the RM_FILES is just an additional user list, so that he doesn't have to list all the known blacklisted services again
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| 18:34 | I.e. the only lts.conf option will be that last one
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| 18:34 | The others will only be for distro default blacklisted stuff
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> if we've got the code to remove services in general, we may as well give the user that flexibility.
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| 18:35 | but at any rate, i need to focus my attention elsewhere right now.
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> np, thanks for the feedback
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> overall, i like the direction though
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| 18:37 | (should note that it should probably remove from /etc/init or /etc/init.d when present, rather than assume a particular distro has a particular init system)
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 18:37 | I just hope we have enough time to deal with any small regressions
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> there's a lot of talk about switching default init systems in debian over the last year
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> To systemd?
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| 18:37 | What dir does that use?
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> i can't keep track of them all
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> :)
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| 19:03 | <Guest87731> Hi! This is my first time here... and I have a problem :(
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| 19:04 | the "/etc/lts.conf" file gets corrupted (truncated)
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| 19:05 | I mean: today all the clients failed to boot (ldm and X fail... they are restarting continuously)
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| 19:05 | I couldn't find anything wrong, except that the "/etc/lts.conf" file is truncated (in clients)
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| 19:06 | Somebody had this problem before?
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| 19:06 | (my installation is not new, it was working without problems during the last year)
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| 19:11 | <Guest87731> well... the corruption of lts.conf happened before, and it seems it is unrelated with my problem with "ldm" and "X"
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| 19:12 | I shortened lts.conf to avoid the corruption problem, and X continues dying
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| 19:14 | <mgariepy> Guest87731, do you use autologin ?
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| 19:14 | <Guest87731> no
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| 19:14 | <mgariepy> which distro are you using?
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| 19:14 | <Guest87731> Ubuntu 10.10
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| 19:16 | the "symptom" is that X dies, I guess some script tries to relaunch it, but it dies again and again
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| 19:17 | I have ssh access to the ltsp client (a fat client)
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| 19:17 | but I don't have a detailed log of the problem
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| 19:18 | if I launch X manually, for example with "/etc/init.d/x11-common restart"
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| 19:18 | eveything works as expected
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| 19:21 | <alkisg> Guest87731: are you using dnsmasq?
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| 19:26 | <Guest87731> @alkisg, I don't think so... :)
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| 19:28 | @alkisg ok, I didn't remember confguring anything regarding dnsmasq, and no, I don't use it
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| 19:29 | <alkisg> If you don't use an lts.conf at all, does it boot?
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| 19:31 | <Guest87731> @alksig, good question, let me check
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| 19:37 | <Guest87731> @alksig: the problem is the same withouth lts.conf
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| 19:37 | <asmok> i have ubuntu 12.04 and old machine P4/nVidia Vanta - it works
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| 19:38 | but now Firefox blows whole desktop away, no other program do that
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| 19:40 | i can run as a example epoptes - so to me everything else is quite well with that 10 years old machine
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| 19:40 | here are lines from .xsession-errors
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| 19:41 | | |
| 19:41 | g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Underlying GIOStream returned 0 bytes on an async read (g-io-error-quark, 0). Exiting.
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| 19:41 | Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyInvalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyInvalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyInvalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 keyxprop: unable to open display '192.168.0.24:7'
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| 19:41 | Xsession: X session started for ltspmx004 at to 9.2.2012 21.26.36 +0200
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| 19:42 | Ubuntu 12.04 and chroot are both up to date
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| 19:43 | as a another example both chrome and chromium work very well
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| 19:43 | <alkisg> asmok: how much ram on the client?
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| 19:44 | Guest87731: what did you do before the chroot broke? Any updates? Did you run ltsp-update-image? Etc
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| 19:44 | asmok, btw, if you want to translated epoptes in finnish it's very easy, you just fill strings online in launchpad, it takes less than half an hour
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| 19:44 | <Guest87731> @alkisg: yep, it seems the problem raised after an update of the image
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| 19:44 | <asmok> root@ltsp24:~# free - Mem: 507488 179040 328448
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| 19:45 | i will do that, it great program i like it
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| 19:45 | <alkisg> asmok, run lsmod on your client (locally) and paste the output to pastebin
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| 19:46 | Guest87731: do you remember selecting gdm as the default display manager instead of ldm?
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| 19:46 | <asmok> well show me pastebin i'm here so rare
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| 19:46 | <alkisg> !pastebin
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| 19:46 | <ltsp`> alkisg: pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:46 | <alkisg> !localxterm
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| 19:46 | <ltsp`> alkisg: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually run on the server. However, if in a client you run 'ltsp-localapps xterm', a local xterm will open, and any commands that you enter there will be executed locally on the client.
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| 19:47 | <alkisg> Ah you have a root shell there, never mind
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| 19:47 | just put lsmod to pastebin
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| 19:48 | <asmok> http://pastebin.com/JjptCHZx
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| 19:50 | i have autologin on so every time firefox blows desktop away and it came back nicely
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| 19:52 | my card is in AGP - 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation NV6 [Vanta/Vanta LT] (rev 15)
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| 19:54 | and i can use gnome-fallback, same feature with firefox, now tc uses lxde
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> asmok: there are bugs with that video card on debian.
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> dunno if it affects ubuntu as well.
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| 19:55 | <asmok> yes i'm know about that i tried debian 6.0.4 it was awful ;-)
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> http://bugs.debian.org/645012
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| 19:56 | asmok: they worked great until a stable point release broke it :(
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| 19:57 | <asmok> in this ubuntu 12.04 vanta uses nouveau and it is stable to me
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> Not that stable, if firefox can crash the desktop so often... :)
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| 19:58 | In 10.04 there was a problem with that card also pulling the fbdev driver
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| 19:58 | That caused crashes, but it doesn't appear it affects you
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| 19:59 | <asmok> but in debian i installed nvidia in chroot and i can use atom/ion box with fullhd 1920x1080 lcd - very good
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| 20:00 | of course vanta did not understand anything about nvidia module
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> Yes the last supported version of it was back in 8.04
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| 20:02 | <asmok> but now i have to go with ubuntu because of vanta - and we do have them about 700 (IBM MT-M 6790-22s) ;-)
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| 20:03 | <Guest87731> @alkisg: no, I selected "ldm"
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| 20:03 | <asmok> so i really really like to get vanta to work ;)
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> asmok: you may also ask in #ubuntu-x, they know more about xorg problems
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| 20:04 | <asmok> never mind ff there are chromium/chrome and so on
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> Guest87731: do you notice any errors in /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
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| 20:04 | <asmok> have firefox been earlier this bad?
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> No, firefox runs just fine usually
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| 20:05 | It probably uses some driver function which is broken in vanda
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| 20:05 | So other software may hit that problem too
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| 20:05 | <asmok> i think so too, maybe it is somehow this very old card & very new ff?
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> If you run `man nouveau`, you'll see some options, maybe some of them will help
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| 20:06 | <Guest87731> @alkisg: the problem is that it seems that X dies before writing anything to Xorg.0.log
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| 20:06 | <asmok> well i have to go through other apps and find out and blacklist them
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| 20:06 | <Guest87731> @alksig, at least, the file doesn't exist until I launch "/etc/init.d/x11-common restart"
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> Guest87731: ...are you sure that xorg really starts? Or the client fails before that?
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| 20:07 | <asmok> but ubuntu 12.04 is not yet ready, but very close anyway
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| 20:08 | <Guest87731> @alkisg: xorg doesn't start
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| 20:08 | the client fails just before
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| 20:09 | in fact, the console is also dead
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| 20:09 | <asmok> alkisg & vagrantc: does that 'firefox: Fatal IO error 11' say anything? is it too common?
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| 20:09 | <Guest87731> the only way I have to reach the client is via ssh
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| 20:12 | @alkisg: but I can start "manually" xorg ("/etc/init.d/x11-common restart") from thath ssh shell
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| 20:12 | @alkisg: and then, everything starts to work as expected
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| 20:18 | <alkisg> Guest87731: try putting SCREEN_07=shell in lts.conf
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| 20:18 | See if that gets you a shell prompt. If yes, type startx there.
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| 20:21 | <Guest87731> @alkisg: thanks for the suggestion!, I'm going to try that. If it works, at least will solve the problem for tomorrow classes
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| 20:21 | @alkisg: do you have any idea about what is failing?
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| 20:35 | <asmok> alkisg: thanks, i'll translate epoptes this weekend, bye
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| 20:36 | <Guest87731> @alkisg: I couldn't try your suggestion yet, but thanks anyway!
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| 20:36 | bye!
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| 23:42 | <vagrantc> highvoltage, alkisg, stgraber: what all did i promise you folks i'd work on tomorrow? :)
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| 23:44 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: something about sponsoring packages ;P
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| 23:45 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: oh, right. i'll have to learn how to test and set it up... you'll be around?
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| 23:46 | <highvoltage> yeppers
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| 23:49 | <vagrantc> i know i promised several folks things tomorrow... hopefully not too many
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| 23:50 | <stgraber> vagrantc: new ldm upload to include /usr/share/ldm/ldminfod (and matching screen.d/ldm change)
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| 23:50 | <vagrantc> wheee!
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