IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 March 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:12 | <gbaman> vagrantc: got a minor issue.. OverlayFS replaces AUFS in Debian 3.18 kernel, but it has been renamed to Overlay, which in turn breaks LTSP. Suggestions?
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| 00:20 | <vagrantc> gbaman: the code doesn't use "OverlayFS" anywhere, but it does use "overlayfs" ... so what exactly has changed?
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| 00:20 | the module name has changed?
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| 00:20 | <gbaman> the module is now called overlay
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| 00:21 | <vagrantc> gbaman: sounds like we need to update the relevent code to handle that as a third option
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| 00:21 | <gbaman> Or it is in Debian 3.18 kernel I have been told
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| 00:21 | <vagrantc> "have been told" ?
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| 00:21 | <gbaman> which has in turn been pulled and used with the Raspbian team kernels
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| 00:22 | and it is in under overlay
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| 00:22 | * vagrantc doesn't want to write code based on heresay :) | |
| 00:23 | <gbaman> Might be worth talking to Plugwash when he is next about in #raspbian, we noticed this at the weekend
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| 00:24 | Assuming there was an update done, any idea how long might take to filter through?
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| 00:24 | <vagrantc> "filter through" ?
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| 00:24 | <gbaman> As in, make it through into normal Debian repos
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| 00:25 | Given that usually takes a while :)
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| 00:25 | Which would in turn end up in Raspbian repos
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| 00:26 | <vagrantc> it's not an appropriate change for Debian jessie or wheezy, so it will have to wait till after the release of Jessie.
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| 00:26 | given that the kernel in Jessie uses aufs.
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| 00:27 | <gbaman> What kernel version is Jessie using?
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| 00:27 | <vagrantc> 3.16
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| 00:27 | <gbaman> Ahh
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| 00:27 | Raspberry Pi now uses 3.18
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| 00:28 | So you are saying, will be 6 months+
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| 00:28 | <vagrantc> and even then, it won't be in raspbian jessie
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| 00:28 | * vagrantc first wants to verify that it's a real issue | |
| 00:30 | <gbaman> Sounds like I will just have to edit the initramfs manually
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| 00:30 | <vagrantc> don't edit the initramfs, use fixed scripts to generate the initramfs
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| 00:31 | <gbaman> Yip, that is my plan
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| 00:31 | <vagrantc> at least rpi2 will support Debian armhf :)
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| 00:32 | <gbaman> But will still be using normal Raspbian for a while yet
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| 00:33 | * vagrantc wonders if the rpi community will make any better effort at getting kernel support upstreamed properly | |
| 00:33 | <vagrantc> would make raspbian irrelevent
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| 01:54 | <vagrantc> gbaman: i confirmed your issue.
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| 01:54 | working on a patch now.
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| 02:11 | <vagrantc> wow. it's worse than I thought.
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| 02:12 | overlay in the 3.19 kernel doesn't support NFS. :(
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| 02:15 | * vagrantc wonders if it would support NFS images... | |
| 02:43 | <vagrantc> meh.
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| 02:44 | mounting a squashfs image over NFS is more broken due to "improvements" in the initramfs-tools NFS script...
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| 02:51 | so basically I need to fork the nfs boot script...
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| 03:26 | ok, well, NFS with a squashfs image can still work with initramfs-tools with some commandline workarounds.
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| 03:39 | well, committed and tested support for "overlay" fs to ltsp.
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| 03:39 | and figured out some workaroudns to use squashfs images on NFS...
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| 08:07 | <muppis> Just made fresh install of Lubuntu 14.04. From client I can login to server with ssh, but not from LDM. No lts.conf defined, other than screens required to get shell.
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> muppis: when logging in from ldm, do `tail -f /var/log/auth.log` on the server, do you get a successful login?
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| 08:09 | <muppis> alkisg, yes.
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| 08:10 | And immediate logout.
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| 08:10 | <alkisg> Which desktop environment?
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| 08:10 | <muppis> LXDE
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| 08:11 | Isn't suitable?
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> There's a bug in lubuntu.desktop file
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> moment, phone...
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| 08:12 | <muppis> On hold.
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| 08:14 | <alkisg> muppis: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/1330252
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| 08:15 | (actually the bug is in ltsp, but I typed that ^ in a hurry...)
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| 08:20 | <muppis> I'll test.
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| 08:34 | <muppis> alkisg, thank you, again. :D
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> :)
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| 12:28 | <stevecook> Hello folks. Steve Cook here. Need some advice on how to fix the lock screen issue on pnp ltsp clients.
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| 12:32 | At the moment, if a client machine is left it locks, but then wont recognise the user password to come out of lock. The only option is to kill the session and re-log back in. i have set the clients up temorarily so that the lock is disabled....cont....
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| 12:32 | but this is not really satisfactory, so need to now how to fix it
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| 13:29 | <alkisg> stevecook: check my last answer to you in yesterday's logs: http://irclogs.ltsp.org/?d=2015-03-02
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| 13:30 | <stevecook> will do
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| 13:34 | <stevecook> I've fopund that file you linked to. Is it a bacsh scrip and, if so, do I need to set it to run at start up. If so, is it a start up for the client or for the server or both. do i need to update the image?
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| 13:34 | sorry folks, that last set of questions is directed as alkisg
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> Put it in /usr/share/ldm/rc.d in your server and then run ltsp-upate-image -c /
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| 13:35 | <stevecook> brilliant, will do. willg et back and report in the next ten mins if you are still around
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| 13:46 | <stevecook> hi alkisg. Didn;t work I am afraid. Or, at least, i should add, I forced a lock screen and it wouldnlt acdept the password to come out of lock. Was that right, Or, should i have left it to go to lock scren by itself. Would that have made any difference? If not, would the solution be to do a full reinstall of a lter version of ltsp?
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| 13:46 | <alkisg> You can test if it worked with `su - logged-in-username`
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| 13:47 | If you're able to authenticate, then it has stored your password
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| 13:47 | You've also put LDM_HASH_PASSWORD in lts.conf, right?
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| 13:47 | <stevecook> yep
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| 13:47 | <alkisg> What's your lts.conf like now?
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| 13:47 | <stevecook> I'll just go and re-check that though...hang on
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| 13:48 | <stevecook> yep, i put this in the bottom of the lts.conf yeasterday ...."LDM_PASSWORD_HASH=true"
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| 13:49 | without the quotes, of course
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| 13:49 | hang on, your hash is in a different place to mine,. does thaty make a difference?
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> Mine was wrong, yours is correct, but do you have correct [sections] in your lts.conf?
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| 13:50 | Can you pastebin it?
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| 13:53 | * alkisg will be back in 30' | |
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| 13:55 | <stevecook> will do alkisg
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| 13:56 | erm....how do i pastebin folks?
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| 13:57 | just tersting this http://pastebin.com/siBPbW0M
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| 13:58 | okay, seems to work
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| 14:25 | <stevecook> hi alkisg, did you get to take a gander at the script? Is it okay?
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| 14:30 | for information, the su - test one command in the terminal failed to authenticate
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| 14:30 | sorry that should have read "su - test1"
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| 14:34 | I have to dissapear for five mins, but pleased do post any advice alkisg as i will read when I return
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> stevecook: if the script didn't work, try a newer ltsp version
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| 15:06 | <stevecook> perspective
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| 15:07 | ignore that last post
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| 15:07 | okay will do alkisg
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| 15:18 | <stevecook> alkisg, i am just about to do a full re-write of my system. and then install the latest version of pnp LTSP. where can i get hold of that please
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> stevecook: it's not officially available for 14.04
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| 15:18 | It's in 15.04 etc
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| 15:18 | You can get it like you got ldm
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| 15:19 | packages.ubuntu.com/whatever
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| 15:19 | Why do you want to reinstall your system?
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| 15:21 | <stevecook> glad to hear i don't. but was psychologically preparing for the possibility...! so, if I get hold of the ubuntu rust version, that should be recent enough? Addittionally, can i still follow that ubuntu titorial for installing pnp ltap or do i need to do something different given that it will be form local files
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> Ah nope, 15.04 still has an old ltsp, http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ltsp-client
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| 15:23 | It appears that stgraber haven't synced it from debian
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> So if you don't want to copy files like the one i told you manually, the only solution for now is debian jessie
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| 15:24 | ...I think you should just keep 14.04 and try more :)
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| 15:24 | <stevecook> fair enough
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| 15:25 | I copied that file to the relevant location like you said...and then redid the image......but it didnlt make any difference
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> Maybe another file is missing, you should look to backport the patch yourself
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| 15:25 | !ltsp-source
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| 15:25 | <ltsp`> ltsp-source: at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
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| 15:26 | <stevecook> how do i go about identifying missing files? and how to I backport a patch
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> I can't teach you that via irc
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| 15:26 | You might want to find someone more experienced to do that for you
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| 15:26 | <stevecook> I iunderstand, casn you point me to where I can learn how
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Your googling is as good as mine, I can't point you on how to do a small part of being a developer...
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| 15:46 | <stevecook> So, the latest debian will install pnp ltsp with no screenlock issues
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| 15:46 | is that right alkisg?
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Yes, although that wiki page doesn't describe what you need to do in debian
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| 15:47 | You need a few different steps there, there's a wiki page in the debian.org site for that
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| 15:47 | Also I believe that Ubuntu 16.04 will have that issue solved too
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| 15:47 | And, at some point, I might backport it for 12.04 and 14.04 as well
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| 15:49 | <stevecook> okay, am going to install latest debian and then try and install pnp ltsp. Cheers for now alkisg. I dare say I'll be back for more advice in due course
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> stevecook: It's not released yet, I don't know if that matters for you
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| 15:50 | <stevecook> what, jessie?
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> yes
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| 15:51 | <stevecook> as long as wheezy has what i need, wheezy will be fine. does wheezy have the necessary?
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> No
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| 15:51 | <stevecook> Wheezy still has the lock screen issue?
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 15:52 | It was only solved a few months ago
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| 15:52 | That's why it's not widespread yet
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| 15:52 | <stevecook> and it is as unfixable in wheezy as it is in ubuntu 14?
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> I don't know if you can find backports in wheezy
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| 15:52 | https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=ltsp-client
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| 15:52 | I don't see 5.5.4 for wheezy there
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| 15:55 | <stevecook> qlso, what's the difference betweem client, client core and client builder?
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| 15:55 | * alkisg doesn't have more time for support for now, sorry | |
| 15:55 | <stevecook> okay
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> Google is your friend
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| 15:56 | Keep irc for specific questions that you can't find in google...
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| 15:56 | <gbti> +1
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| 15:58 | <stevecook> I am bound to report, that the only reason i came here is precsiely becasue such question are rareley of ever adequately answered via a google search. i cam e hare after many weeks of just such unfroutful searches. for example......
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| 15:59 | "difference between between ltsp client, client core and client builder" has produced pages of material, but form at least the first five of whoch i have just scanned, none of them explain that difference, but simply proceed on a presumably unspoken assunption that reader already knows it
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| 15:59 | This is typical, particularly when it comes to the finer points of ltsp
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| 16:00 | This place has provided more information in a few days than many weeks of searching on the internet more brioadly
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> Yes, but support comes at a cost of development time :)
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| 16:00 | <stevecook> I understand that
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> So if you can google about the package versions in wheezy, it saves support time ...
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Anyways, /me signs off...
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| 16:01 | <stevecook> but, on the other hand, large scale take up of ltsp is only going to happen when this system is accessible by intelligent non specialists
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| 16:01 | <work_alkisg> True, but we developers don't really care about that
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| 16:01 | :)
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| 16:02 | <stevecook> lol
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| 16:02 | <work_alkisg> It's up to you to do it if you want it
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| 16:02 | We use it in our own setups, and just make it available in case others find it useful
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| 16:02 | That's open source :)
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| 16:03 | <stevecook> I suppose my own angle is a non specialist educationalist in the uk mainstream. I need a system that eithe rjust works, or one where the documentation takes one form a starting position of zero knowledge right up to expert
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| 16:04 | <work_alkisg> Then open source isn't right for you
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| 16:04 | <stevecook> Presently, there is a massive hole betweeen those two exptreme
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| 16:04 | <work_alkisg> There are some open source companies that might provide what you want for a fee
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| 16:04 | <stevecook> I am linux though and though and have been for 5 years, so open source is for me I can assure you
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| 16:04 | <work_alkisg> And there are non-open source companies that can do that too
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| 16:05 | I can't type Greek in 14.04 because gnome + ubuntu decided that the old, working way of configuring a keyboard wasn't good enough for wayland
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| 16:05 | I tried even to send patches but they were needed in 10+ different upstreams, so I gave up
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| 16:05 | So I'm just not using 14.04 yet
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| 16:06 | In open source you have to accept that some things stay broken for a long time, or are underdocumented, or crash, or don't do what you want
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| 16:06 | <work_alkisg> Anyways, that's the situation with ltsp for now...
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| 16:25 | <stevecook> no worries alkisg and thanks for your help mate
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| 19:41 | <lopta> Out of interest, how large a boot ROM can a 3Com 3c905b take?
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| 19:44 | <Hyperbyte> How is that question related to LTSP?
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| 19:45 | Or are you not actually talking about a boot ROM?
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| 19:45 | <ogra_> Hyperbyte, perhapy he wants to put LTSP client into the spare space :)
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| 19:46 | <Hyperbyte> ogra_, putting an LTSP client directly on the chips of the network card. :-D
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| 19:46 | That'd be one hell of a fast boot though. :P
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| 19:46 | <ogra_> yeah :)
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| 19:47 | it would need to shrink a tiny bit though
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| 19:47 | <Hyperbyte> Well, or bigger ROM chip size. :P
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| 19:53 | <lopta> Hyperbyte: I really did mean a boot ROM.
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| 19:54 | ogra_: I was thinking more in terms of something like bootp but I suspect the machines I'd be putting them in would probably understand PXE anyway
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| 19:54 | ...probably.
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| 19:54 | <ogra_> hard to find one that doesnt have PXE support nowadays
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| 19:56 | * lopta nods | |
| 19:56 | <lopta> I think I just put our last Pentium III on the scrap pile.
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| 19:56 | I'd take it to the recycling place today if it weren't so icy here.
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| 20:08 | <lopta> Knowing my luck I'd break an appendage.
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