IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 May 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:05 | <gdi2k> hi, I'm having a small issue with epoptes: I can only see machines that are already logged in - I cannot see machines that are on, but are only on the login screen. Is there any way to fix that?
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| 03:28 | <alkisg> digitalirony: there are newer ldm versions for 12.04 in the ts.sch.gr ppa
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| 03:28 | !greek-schools-ppa
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| 03:28 | <ltsp> greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
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| 03:29 | <alkisg> gdi2k: you need to install epoptes-client in the chroot, see epoptes.org/installation
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| 05:28 | <gdi2k> alkisg, thanks for that. will give it a shot
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| 05:47 | <Joanet> Hi all. I've configured an script using session-setup-script at lightdm.conf but it only works starting local session. On LTSP it doesn't execute (using the same user). What can I check?
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| 05:49 | <alkisg> Joanet: ltsp doesn't use lightdm
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| 05:51 | <Joanet> Hi alkisg. Thanks for your reply. How can I run this script as sudo before user session starts? What I do is to recreate user profile from skel
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| 05:52 | <alkisg> Joanet: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=1310986533.1915.3.camel%40alkis&forum_name=ltsp-discuss
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| 05:54 | (you don't need sudo)
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> Wow, putting i386.img in a local hard disk is *already* supported by LTSP!!! So having e.g. 50 fat clients on a 100 mbps network is not a problem anymore!!!
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| 06:10 | !learn local-boot as If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
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| 06:10 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 06:12 | <muppis> Nice.
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| 06:28 | <gdi2k> was wondering what other's experiences were with server load. my cpu usage is around 20 - 30% with 9 clients in use, but server load average is 6.99, 6.45, 5.69 which is quite high for a quad-core. things seem smooth on the clients though. is it ok or should I be looking to upgrade?
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> !directx
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| 06:31 | <ltsp> directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
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| 06:31 | <gdi2k> yes I did that already
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| 06:32 | I have no complaints about performance at the moment, am just getting worried that the server is running out of steam if I want to add a few more clients
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| 06:38 | <Joanet> alkisg: for doing what you told about S00-guest-sessions I need ssh, don't I? I don't have installed it
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| 06:38 | also, can I call to an existent sh file?
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| 06:44 | <alkisg> Joanet: ltsp clients always have ssh installed, you don't need to install it
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| 06:47 | <Joanet> alkisg: I say install ssh server
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| 06:47 | <alkisg> Joanet: ltsp servers always have ssh server installed
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| 06:47 | LTSP doesn't work at all without ssh
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| 06:57 | <Joanet> thanks
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| 06:57 | I'll try
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| 08:06 | * DJUnreal stretches | |
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| 09:10 | <workingcats> meoink all
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| 09:14 | <DJUnreal> meoink?
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| 09:15 | * DJUnreal miaows | |
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| 09:50 | * DJUnreal looks at all the idlers | |
| 09:53 | <gdi2k> looks like everyone has risen, so I'll post my question regarding server loads again :) my ltsp server load average is around 6 - 7 (it's a quad core, so max should be 4.00) with 9 users logged in. CPU is around 20 - 30% and responsiveness on the clients is good. if I want to add some more clients, should I be looking to upgrade, or is it ok to have such high load averages?
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| 09:58 | <DJUnreal> depends
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| 09:58 | are you running local apps?
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| 09:59 | basically what you're asking is a sysadmin question, not an ltsp question
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| 09:59 | but luckily for you, i'm a sysadmin
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| 10:02 | so the question is... what (in top) is creating the load?
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| 10:05 | <gdi2k> hehe good :)
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| 10:05 | there are some local apps, but very few
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| 10:05 | skype and linphone only
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| 10:05 | <DJUnreal> Okay
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| 10:05 | <gdi2k> firefox runs on the server as it's too sluggish local
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| 10:05 | <DJUnreal> so what's creating the load?
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| 10:05 | <gdi2k> mainly firefox and also the pesky pulse audio volume control that they use all the time to fiddle with headset volumes
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| 10:06 | flash plugin, some xchat, a bit of libreoffice on the side, nothing major though
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| 10:06 | <DJUnreal> ok...
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| 10:07 | so in 'top' those are the highest processes?
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| 10:07 | <gdi2k> yes
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| 10:07 | <DJUnreal> and that's under 'normal' conditions?
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| 10:07 | <gdi2k> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=3rm0yeXV
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| 10:07 | yes
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| 10:08 | <DJUnreal> To Be Honest your cpu time is very low
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| 10:08 | 68% idle
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| 10:08 | <gdi2k> yes, but load is high
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| 10:08 | <DJUnreal> so right now, it doesn't look like an issue
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| 10:09 | load is high, but it's not /doing/ anything
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| 10:09 | <gdi2k> ok
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| 10:09 | <DJUnreal> unless the user experience is suffering, i'd say it's fine
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| 10:09 | however
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| 10:09 | you /will/ want to look at why the fuck a volume control is eating 20% of your CPU per user
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| 10:09 | if you'll pardon the french
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| 10:09 | <gdi2k> hehe, yes
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| 10:10 | it seems like anything remotely animated (animated volume bars) cause high cpu
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| 10:10 | <DJUnreal> because that's a ludicrous amount of cpu time
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| 10:10 | hrmm
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| 10:10 | <gdi2k> system monitor with the fancy graphics is the same
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| 10:10 | <DJUnreal> that i can understand
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| 10:10 | but not quite that high...
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| 10:10 | you also gotta remember those load figures are averages
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| 10:10 | over 1, 5 and 10 mins i believe
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| 10:10 | and that your load average doesn't necessarily indicate a problem
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| 10:11 | <gdi2k> yes, I've been reading about them, but most of the literature is more relevant for specific work loads, not general desktop computing
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| 10:11 | <DJUnreal> michael and kirby need to close the window on their volume control
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| 10:11 | stops it animating, stops them using 20% cpu each
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| 10:11 | <gdi2k> they all go up and down all the time - each time top refreshes someone else's volume control thing pops to the top
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| 10:12 | will ask them to close them and see what happens...
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| 10:12 | <DJUnreal> ahh, they need to close them though
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| 10:12 | * DJUnreal recommends some user re-education | |
| 10:12 | <DJUnreal> a hammer helps with this :)
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| 10:12 | <gdi2k> :D
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| 10:14 | <DJUnreal> but yeah
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| 10:14 | i'd say you're fine unless the user experience suffers or the server falls over
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| 10:14 | both of which will be immediately obvious very quickly
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| 10:15 | <gdi2k> ok, thanks for the feedback, sounds good
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| 10:15 | SSDs seem to help a lot, even with an older system
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| 10:15 | <DJUnreal> yes... i/o wait
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| 10:18 | <gdi2k> right, so killing off the volume control app does reduce cpu load a good chunk, but load average remains similar
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| 10:19 | <DJUnreal> yeah... that's because the averages are 1, 5 and 15 mins
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| 10:19 | * DJUnreal is reading a rather handy article about load averages at the moment | |
| 10:19 | <gdi2k> (also difficult to gauge as everyone's on break right now)
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| 10:24 | <DJUnreal> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9001?page=0,0
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| 10:24 | that's a handy article to check out for an in-depth explanation of load averages
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| 10:35 | * DJUnreal sighs as he does his sysadmin thing again and deals with moron (l)users | |
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| 10:39 | <gdi2k> DJUnreal, thanks for that, will have a look through
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| 10:43 | * gdi2k puts on moron cap | |
| 10:44 | <DJUnreal> no worries gdi2k... and you're not the moron
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| 10:44 | * DJUnreal is dealing with an employee in another country who's being an utter moron | |
| 10:44 | <gdi2k> ah ok hehe. thanks
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| 10:45 | <DJUnreal> "i've got a failed disk, but i can't get a warranty swap from dell because we'd have to send this one back and it's got private data on it"
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| 10:45 | "no, you fool, it's part of a RAID, and it's failed, and therefore it's useless on two counts"
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| 10:47 | <gdi2k> at my previous company they insisted on destroying such disks and buying new rather than getting warranty replacements due to their data security policy. madness
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| 10:48 | <vlt> If there’s no crypt layer there is in fact private data on it.
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| 10:49 | <DJUnreal> vlt: our policy before disks go back to dell is to degauss them
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| 10:50 | <vlt> DJUnreal: Sounds good.
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| 10:50 | <DJUnreal> any business-sensitive data should be encrypted at all times anyway
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| 10:50 | <gdi2k> doesn't that void warranty?
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| 10:50 | <DJUnreal> nah
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| 10:50 | not when you have the clout with dell that we have
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| 10:50 | the kinda clout that gets us toys from dell which aren't even on the market yet
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| 10:50 | * DJUnreal imagines none of you have heard of the Dell VRTX or Dell Vertex system | |
| 10:51 | * DJUnreal has, on a desk 10 feet away from him, the first VRTX in existence | |
| 10:52 | <gdi2k> does it make good coffee?
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| 10:52 | <DJUnreal> no, but it's a kick-ass platform
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| 11:01 | * DJUnreal would LOVE a vrtx for his LTSP environment :) | |
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| 11:41 | <garymc> Hi Guys, A while back I installed open office on the server and but without Database. All FAT clients have access to this software. I have just addded DATABASE on the server but none of the FAT clients see it. Why is this and how can I fix?
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| 11:41 | <alkisg> ltsp-update-image
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| 11:44 | <garymc> where do I do that? on the server
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| 11:47 | <DJUnreal> yes
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| 11:48 | on your LTSP server you run ltsp-update-image
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| 11:48 | <garymc> thanks
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| 11:48 | <DJUnreal> No Problem
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| 11:58 | <gdi2k> I have some thin clients that have trouble keeping time (likely dead cmos batteries etc.). can I install ntpd as a local app to combat this until I have new cmos batteries? I have a local app which is sensitive to correct time so client time needs to be accurate
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| 11:59 | <DJUnreal> yeah
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| 11:59 | you'll want to use NTP somewhere along the line
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| 11:59 | <gdi2k> I already use it on the server and it's fine, but not on the clients themselves (local)
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| 11:59 | <DJUnreal> the question is...
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| 12:00 | why do your clients (which, if they're truly thin) need to have the same time as the server, if you're running the apps on the server and therefore everything takes the server's time anyway?
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| 12:00 | <gdi2k> the app in question is running locally on the thin client using localapps
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| 12:00 | <DJUnreal> ahhhh
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| 12:00 | right
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| 12:00 | that makes sense
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| 12:00 | yes, use ntpd in your ltsp image
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| 12:01 | <gdi2k> ok I'll give it a shot
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| 12:01 | <DJUnreal> at the least... if your images ntp sync to the server
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| 12:01 | it doesn't matter if the server's time is right
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| 12:01 | so long as your clients sync to it
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| 12:01 | right?
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| 12:01 | <gdi2k> in this case, yes, I need to have accurate time for my local app
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| 12:02 | but having accurate time on the server is nice of course, and ntp does a good job at that
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| 12:02 | <DJUnreal> hrmm, so it's not dependent on the server and client times matching, but your local app having the correct time with the rest of the world?
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| 12:03 | <gdi2k> yes exactly - it's actually linphone that's giving us gripes with an asterisk server
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| 12:03 | the server is moaning that the client is out of sync
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| 12:04 | <DJUnreal> right right
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| 12:04 | so you need your own ntp repeater (assuming the clients don't have direct LoS to the internet)
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| 12:04 | ie your LTSP server needs to become a stratum 2 timeserver or whatever
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| 12:04 | <gdi2k> I think the clients do have direct web access as linphone works fine with an external asterisk server
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| 12:05 | <DJUnreal> well in that case it's easy
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| 12:05 | <gdi2k> I have LTSP configured with a single network card
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| 12:05 | <DJUnreal> just set up ntp talking to pool.ntp.org
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| 12:05 | <gdi2k> yeh, I'll just use the defaults, they seem to work fine normally
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| 12:07 | <DJUnreal> pool.ntp.org is about the most reliable timesource you'll ever find
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| 12:18 | <garymc> Hi ltsp-image-update didnt fix it :( Do I have to run that on the FAT clients also?
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| 12:26 | <garymc> DJUnreal :I lost connection before and I can not get this DATABASE program to show in the FAT clients
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| 12:26 | HELP!
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| 12:30 | <gdi2k> did you install DATABASE in the chroot of the fat client?
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| 12:30 | or just on the server itself?
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| 12:36 | <gdi2k> garymc, from what I understand, installing fat client apps is the same as installing local apps, so you need to chroot into your fat client's root file system and install it there, then rebuild the image
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| 12:36 | <DJUnreal> did you manage to do the ltsp-update-image?
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| 13:11 | <garymc> DJUnreal it looks as though it is failing
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| 13:16 | <DJUnreal> well that's the first indication then
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| 13:16 | need to find out why and fix it
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| 13:32 | <garymc> i will do , I need to got to server room to check cos for some reason I cant ssh into it
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| 13:32 | <DJUnreal> i'd be fixing that first ;)
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| 13:33 | <garymc> dont know how too
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| 13:35 | <DJUnreal> start with the simple bits
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| 13:35 | restart sshd
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| 13:35 | <garymc> from server room, bear in mind this is a live system
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| 13:36 | <DJUnreal> then maybe you don't wanna be messing with it until everyone goes home
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| 13:36 | as if you're messing with ltsp and break the image, things won't boot
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| 14:57 | <dawydiuk> I'm setting up an ltsp server and am was thinking about using raid 5 or raid 10 as I don't have a second server as a backup. I don't have a "real" raid controller in my power edge 2900 but rather one that can only provide raid level 1. I'm not sure if I should pickup a raid controller so I can withstand more than one drive failing… Any suggestions on this?
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| 14:59 | <garymc> DJUnreal : How do I restart sshd
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| 14:59 | ?
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| 15:01 | <DJUnreal> try /etc/init.d/sshd restart
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| 15:01 | dawydiuk: RAID-1 is far more resilient (and, for that matter, faster) than RAID-5
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| 15:01 | as long as your disks are big enough, i'd say use RAID-1 any day
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| 15:02 | <dawydiuk> thanks for the feedback I'll probably just stick with RAID 1 then
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| 15:02 | <DJUnreal> no worries
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| 15:07 | <garymc> DJUnreal - didnt work
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| 15:08 | ok i have ssh'd in
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| 15:08 | fixed i think
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| 15:09 | <DJUnreal> cool
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| 15:15 | <garymc> whats the update image command?
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| 15:17 | <DJUnreal> ltsp-update-image
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| 15:20 | <garymc> ok its doing something
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| 15:25 | <garymc> i dont think it has worked though
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| 15:26 | here is a pastebin: pastebin.com/mxq3Rugf
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| 15:34 | <DJUnreal> dude... you REALLY need to sort out your file paths
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| 15:34 | you're not running that inside a chroot are you?
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| 15:35 | <garymc> god knows
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| 15:35 | <DJUnreal> mkdir: cannot create directory `/opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp': No such file or directory
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| 15:35 | Regenerating kernel...
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| 15:35 | chroot: cannot run command `/usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels': No such file or directory
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| 15:35 | err
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| 15:36 | mkdir: cannot create directory `/opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp': No such file or directory
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| 15:36 | ./usr/sbin/ltsp-update-image: 3: cannot create /opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf: Directory nonexistent
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| 15:36 | ./usr/sbin/ltsp-update-image: 3: cannot create /opt/ltsp/amd64.backup/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf: Directory nonexistent
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| 15:36 | Regenerating kernel...
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| 15:36 | chroot: cannot run command `/usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels': No such file or director
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| 15:36 | the two dots at the beginning of the file paths are just to allow me to paste them
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| 15:36 | you need to sort out all those file permissions
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| 15:44 | <garymc> i am screwed then, as I dont have a clue
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| 15:53 | <garymc> do I need root access?
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| 15:59 | <lykwydchykyn> Has anyone got ltsp on Ubuntu 12.04 booting for non-pae clients?
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| 16:00 | I've been struggling to find a solution for this since yesterday; finally have a sort-of-hackish solution, but it feels wrong.
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| 16:11 | <||cw> lykwydchykyn: so pointing pxe at the non-pae image doens't do it?
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| 16:18 | <lykwydchykyn> My solution right now is to explicitly install the non-pae kernel. It appears this sets up a set of ".old" symlinks in the tftpboot directory for vmlinuz/initrd/nbi/etc.
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| 16:19 | Then my script does some sed action to replace the references to those things with the "old" version.
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| 16:19 | My trouble is, I don't know if the ".old" thing is a coincidence or designed behavior.
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| 16:19 | So the solution works, but feels a tad brittle
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| 16:20 | I got the impression there was actually a way this was *supposed* to work, without involving manual hacking.
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| 16:20 | <||cw> wait, so the newly installed non-pae kernel gets the .old?
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| 16:20 | what is it in the chroot?
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| 16:21 | <lykwydchykyn> Yep. I found that if I manually uninstall the pae kernel, the non-pae kernel does not get linked to vmlinuz. vmlinuz becomes a broken link.
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| 16:21 | so now I have both kernels
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| 16:21 | <||cw> that sounds like a packaging bug.
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| 16:23 | <lykwydchykyn> in which package?
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| 16:27 | <||cw> all kernels, I bet
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| 16:28 | debian's always been a little weird with mutliple builds of the same kernel, and I'm sure ubuntu didn't make it any better, and likely worse
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| 16:30 | <lykwydchykyn> man... all i need is about two dozen web browser terminals. It shouldn't be this complicated.
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> jammcq: I just restarted apache2, ltsp.org was down again
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| 17:14 | gdi2k: clients supposedly sync time with the server on boot, if they don't it's a bug
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| 17:16 | <digitalirony> hrmm
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| 17:17 | alkisg: I installed the ppa like you said, and did an apt-get upgrade, but it didn't seem to fix the issue with LDM_FORCE_SESSION
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| 17:17 | maybe I am missing something?
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| 17:17 | <alkisg> digitalirony: did you upgrade the chroot, or the server? ldm is in the chroot
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| 17:17 | <digitalirony> durp
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| 17:17 | I have to rebuild the chroot
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> Or just upgrade it
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| 17:18 | Watch out for nbd-server incompatibilities, the ppa was a newer nbd-server version which uses different settings
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| 17:19 | s/was/has/
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| 19:15 | <DJUnreal> awesome
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| 19:15 | apparently my electricity company aren't interested in the fact that i'm getting 250v out of my wall
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| 19:17 | <||cw> yeah. sounds like an internal wiring issue
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| 19:18 | <DJUnreal> of course
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| 19:19 | 'cause internal wiring will make all my sockets spew out higher voltage than they should
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| 19:19 | apparently the threshold at which it becomes dangerous is 253v
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| 19:19 | <DJUnreal> Welcome Back alkisg
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| 19:19 | <digitalirony> alkisg: that worked btw, thanks
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| 19:19 | * alkisg waves | |
| 19:20 | <DJUnreal> all i can say is "thank goodness I have a UPS that supports AVR Trim"
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| 20:44 | <dcmoody> hello all. I'm setting up a new LTSP Server, Ubuntu 12.04.2 on 64-bit system with 32-bit clients. The client boots, I get the login screen. However after attempting to login the screen goes blank, then back to the login screen with no errors. In my syslog the only thing that jumps out is: "nbd9: unknown partition table", "nbd9: NBD_DISCONNECT", & "nbd9: Receive control failed (result -32)"
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| 20:46 | <lykwydchykyn> dcmoody: those nbd errors are always in the logs, I don't think they have anything to do with your issue.
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| 20:47 | except that last one, I've not seen that before
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| 20:47 | <dcmoody> it shows up in the log twice
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| 20:49 | <lykwydchykyn> did you run ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
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| 20:50 | <dcmoody> yeah i've run update-sshkeys, update-kernels, i'm about to the point of scrapping the /opt/ltsp/i386 and rebuilding the client
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| 20:52 | here's a bigger portion of the syslog from the server (i enabled remote syslog feature). http://pastebin.com/Tei5Rcpf
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| 20:54 | and my lts.conf file: http://pastebin.com/MLhe0JWM
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| 20:56 | <lykwydchykyn> Which desktop environment is installed on the server?
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| 20:56 | <dcmoody> ubuntu-desktop, the default one...
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| 20:58 | <lykwydchykyn> It sounds like the actual desktop session is failing; if you're getting a login screen, the client is loading its OS.
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| 20:59 | what's the client hardware?
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| 20:59 | <dcmoody> it's a P4 PC with the hard drive removed
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| 20:59 | <lykwydchykyn> what kind of graphics hardware is in it?
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| 20:59 | <dcmoody> i'm not getting any messages in the users .xsession-errors file, so i assumed it wasn't even attempting to load the desktop session
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| 21:00 | <lykwydchykyn> I can't say authoritatively if that's supposed to get anything in it, but I usually don't with LTSP. Might just be my setups, though.
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| 21:00 | <dcmoody> i'm not certain... i was running a LTSP setup on Ubuntu 8.04 before, but that server died on me last week and i'm trying to get this new one set up
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| 21:01 | <lykwydchykyn> I would recommend trying something really basic like openbox, just to rule out a hardware problem between your client and unity.
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| 21:02 | <dcmoody> ok... i'll see what i can come up with
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| 21:08 | <dcmoody> you know after thinking about it, i might be better off rebuilding the client altogether... i remember following this sites instructions and i updated the chroot? I would hope that that didn't corrupt it but it might have done something
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| 21:10 | however i dont' think it had any packages to update... but i was able to login from the client after initial setup then i started making settings changes and now i can't get logged in
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| 21:24 | <lykwydchykyn> a rebuild is always a safe idea; you can just move your old chroot directory if you want to back up your changes
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| 21:37 | <dcmoody> well rebuilt client works... tomorrow, i'll try updating the chroot and see if it bombs
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| 21:37 | thanks for the help
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| 23:39 | <derekn> Can anyone point me toward documentation on how to set up xrandr in the lts.conf? I'd like to be able to use dual montiors on my thin clients
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| 23:42 | <digitalirony> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/raring/en/man5/lts.conf.5.html
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| 23:42 | its about mid way down that page
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| 23:45 | <derekn> So if I'm understanding it correctly for two monitors I'd need to add xrandr_output_0 and xrandr_output_1? Thanks for your help btw.
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| 23:46 | <digitalirony> well
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| 23:46 | iunno, I don't use xrandr
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| 23:46 | heh
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| 23:47 | I use nvidia with xinerama
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| 23:47 | I just knew where that was
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| 23:48 | but, from what this says, thats does seem to be the case, yes
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| 23:48 | <derekn> I still appreciate the pointer :) Unfortunately I've got both ATI and nVidia clients so I can't use xinerama unless I want to configure them all.
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| 23:48 | <digitalirony> looks like you can just use regular xrandr commands though
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| 23:48 | and do like
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| 23:48 | xrandr_command_0
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| 23:48 | and 1
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| 23:48 | etc
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| 23:49 | and just send it the xrandr commands in order that you would execute them normally
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| 23:49 | <derekn> Ok, I'll give that a try. Thanks for your help.
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| 23:49 | <digitalirony> thank god I only have single head workstations heheh
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| 23:49 | np
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| 23:50 | <digitalirony> if you hang around long enough im sure some one much more l33t than me will answer
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| 23:50 | annnd nvm then
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| 23:55 | <gdi2k> we use xrandr (with nvidia cards using open source drivers)
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| 23:55 | we have: XRANDR_COMMAND_0="xrandr --output DVI-I-1 --primary --output HDMI-1 --off --output VGA-1 --off"
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| 23:56 | this deactivates the second screen on the log in window so we don't have the login window split across two screens
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| 23:56 | once logged in, the window manager takes care of the remaining settings
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| 23:57 | (we use xubuntu, so xfce handles it)
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