IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 28 May 2007 (all times are UTC)

00:00	<sahil> sbalneav:still x on the screen
00:00	<sbalneav> netstat -an \| grep ":177"
00:01	Do you get anything?
00:02	<sahil> quite a bit
00:02	<sbalneav> More than one line?
00:02	<sahil> must've typed it wrong
00:02	just one line
00:02	<sbalneav> paste it please
00:03	<sahil> ha i am im working on laptop and server
00:03	so theres a little delay
00:03	udp6 0 0 :::177 :::*
00:03	doesn't say anything about xdmcp
00:03	<sbalneav> udp6?
00:03	<sahil> no idea
00:04	<sbalneav> That doesn't seem right. What does your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf look like?
00:04	<sahil> under xdmcp login window preferences it has listen on udp port: 177
00:05	i got it
00:05	we had an interface problem earlier
00:05	it put that ip all over the place
00:06	the server line had the wrong ip
00:07	<sbalneav> So does it boot now?
00:07	<sahil> waiting to find out
00:07	good to go
00:07	except mouse no go but ill get that
00:11	/dev/input/mice or /dev/psaux
00:16	<sbalneav> usually psaux
00:16	Late here, I'm heading to bed.
00:16	'Night.
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00:49	<kaos01> hi, whats the correct way to ensure that clients have the correct time ?
00:50	<f3ew> ntpd
00:50	<kaos01> mmm
00:50	are you sure
00:50	ntd clients are not instoled by default
00:50	and what about timezones
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00:52	<kaos01> f3ew, have you implemented ntpd on your clients ?
00:54	* f3ew isn't running LTSP yet
00:54	<f3ew> but I will be doing that
00:55	<kaos01> haha
00:56	woudnt one need to run something liek yum update tz-data but install it in /opt/ltsp/whatever
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02:13	<daya> hi to all,
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04:26	<envite> Hello all from Spain
04:26	Hola a todos desde España
04:36	<Nikopoika> hi, i would like to use "ldm" displaymanager in my ltsp-server, but i'm not sure how to make it a default manager, my default manager atm is gdm
04:39	<ogra-classmate> Nikopoika: ldm isnt built for that, currently you can only use it on thin clients
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04:53	<daya> do i have to run ltsp-build-client in debian etch for installing ltsp,
04:58	<ogra-classmate> !debian
04:58	<ltspbot`> ogra-classmate: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
05:08	<Nikopoika> ogra-classmate: ok
05:11	<Zenton> hi all,
05:11	nx is not right now integrated in ltsp, isnt it?
05:21	<highvoltage> nope, it isn't
05:23	<Zenton> thanks highvoltage.
05:26	<highvoltage> you're welcome.
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06:06	<kaos01> how does one set the correct timeon the clients ?
06:10	<envite> clients need correct time?
06:11	I think not
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06:16	<kaos01> well why is there a /etc/localtime than ?
06:16	i realise there are no benefits in it :)
06:17	how does one start up sshd on the client
06:19	<sepski> kaos01, for ltsp5 i just install ssh inside the chroot, and reboot client.
06:20	<kaos01> iam using 4.2
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06:29	<envite> kaos01: there is an option in lts.conf for ssh to start
06:30	but it is not named ssh nor sshd
06:30	let me see
06:31	http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/SSH
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06:39	<vagrantc> so ... who's familiar with ltspswapd ? was it basically a fork of nbd-server with some features added?
06:44	<kaos01> ok, so LOCAL_APPS = Y probably starts up sshd
06:44	<envite> drop the "probably" ;)
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07:11	<damnation> hey here
07:11	is someone able to help me with a connection problem ?
07:11	<vagrantc> if you describe the problem it will be much easier to help with :)
07:12	usually, just go ahead an ask your question, and people will respond if they can
07:13	<damnation> :-) when i boot up the package after the nfs script i get connect : connection refused and then keeps saying read: connection refused
07:13	i lookd at host. host.allow
07:13	if gdm is enabled
07:13	i lookd at export file
07:13	but they all look good to me off course , i'm a newby :p
07:13	<vagrantc> what distro ?
07:14	<damnation> where do i find the distro
07:14	i mean how do i know wich one it is
07:14	<vagrantc> what linux distribution do you have installed?
07:14	<damnation> debian
07:14	edge
07:15	<vagrantc> lsb_release -a
07:15	<damnation> the one i posted the debian edge :-)
07:15	<cyberorg> "connection refused" sshd running on the server?
07:16	<vagrantc> well, that's particularly confiusing, in that there is debian etch, and ubuntu edgy ... so an answer that looks like a mix of both is very confusing :P
07:16	<damnation> it is now let me test :-)
07:16	<cyberorg> oh, if it is nfs try mounting the exported folder from another machine
07:17	check the path exported from /etc/exports exists and points to the right place
07:17	<vagrantc> damnation: how did you install ltsp ?
07:18	<damnation> i did apt-get install openssh-server ltsp-server-standalone
07:18	<vagrantc> and then?
07:18	<damnation> then i installed , the ltsp-utils to create the files
07:18	<vagrantc> ltsp-utils is incompatible with ltsp-server
07:18	<damnation> and i did a manual configure of the dhcp setting , host , export and host.allow
07:19	i did not install the package of the ltsp-utils
07:19	i only used it to see if all service's where running
07:19	<vagrantc> ok.
07:20	so, what did you do next?
07:20	<damnation> first i'am gonne check now if the export points to the right place
07:20	brb
07:20	<vagrantc> well ... i'm wondering if you ever actually built the LTSP environment ...
07:21	damnation: dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l ltsp-client
07:21	<damnation> i did build the client
07:21	the path is correct
07:22	doe's it hurt to rebuild the ltsp client just to make sure ?
07:22	<vagrantc> it can cause problems, yes.
07:22	i'd recommend: mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386.old before rebuilding
07:23	<cyberorg> also check the root path in /etc/dhcpd.conf if it matches the exports too
07:24	should be something like this: option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386/";
07:24	<damnation> o.0 i dont have a root path in dhcp.conf
07:25	<vagrantc> that'll do it
07:25	damnation: take a look at /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/dhcpd.conf
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07:27	<damnation> ok i now hava :
07:27	host ws001 {
07:27	ah damn
07:27	sec
07:28	http://rafb.net/p/Dg7Ome29.html
07:28	that is my dhcp.conf
07:29	still the same error
07:31	<cyberorg> try mount serverip:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt from another machine
07:31	move option along with other options on top, not sure if that makes any difference
07:32	and is this the nfs server too: 192.168.0.160
07:32	<damnation> yes it is
07:32	to wich other machine
07:33	i only have my laptop
07:33	its a skool project
07:33	<vagrantc> damnation: is the NFS server the same as the DHCP server?
07:33	<damnation> i suppose so yes there both running on the same machine
07:33	<vagrantc> yes.
07:34	<cyberorg> try mounting /opt/ltsp/i386 on your laptop
07:34	<vagrantc> damnation: so ... what happens when you: mount -o nolock,ro 192.168.0.1:/opt/ltsp/i386 /mnt
07:35	<cyberorg> vagrantc: 192.168.0.160:/opt/ltsp/i386 ?
07:35	<damnation> server is down
07:35	<vagrantc> cyberorg: ?
07:36	<damnation> i get the message mount to nfs server '192.1668.0.1" failed : server is down
07:36	<cyberorg> next-server is 192.168.0.160
07:36	<vagrantc> ah, yes.
07:36	sorry.
07:36	<cyberorg> so i assume nfsserver, dhcp and tftp all is running on that machine
07:37	* vagrantc goes back to working on the next release
07:37	<cyberorg> :)
07:37	<vagrantc> cyberorg: i'll leave it to you :)
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07:37	<damnation> thanks vagrantc for the help
07:37	i did a mount to 160 no errors
07:38	<cyberorg> move the options with all the other options and restart dhcpd and boot up the client
07:39	<damnation> when i open the ltspadmin and see if all my service's are running there all in the green
07:40	restart of dhcp . boot up client
07:40	same error
07:40	connection refused
07:41	<cyberorg> what does tail -f /var/log/messages on the server say
07:41	most likely client is trying to mount wrong thing
07:42	<damnation> http://rafb.net/p/f0A15380.html
07:42	i pasted it to the html page
07:42	a part of the last
07:43	suppose it is indeed trying to mount the wrong package
07:43	where do i get a new package . mount something else ?
07:45	<cyberorg> i dont see any messages about dhcp or nfsserver, check those messages
07:45	<damnation> debian dhcdbd: message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/eth0 for sub-path eth0.dbus.get.reason
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07:47	<cyberorg> gotto go too, check the logs for nfs requests
07:47	<damnation> lk
07:47	ok thanks for the help
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07:54	<vagrantc> damnation: you might want to check /var/log/syslog instead of /var/log/messages
07:55	<damnation> :-)
07:56	all i see is the dhcp requests that the client did to the server
07:57	is it possible that the ssh server is denying the client ?
07:58	how do you ppl set up a ltsp server and client ?
07:59	is it with the lstp-utils or server ?
08:00	<jammcq> ltsp-utils is for the older ltsp-4.2
08:00	are you trying to setup ltsp-5 ?
08:00	<damnation> i dont know , it the ltsp-server-standalone ltsp 5 ?
08:01	<jammcq> yes
08:01	<damnation> then yes
08:01	<jammcq> so you shouldn't be using ltsp-utils at all
08:01	<damnation> nope , i just use it to see if all my service's are running
08:01	<jammcq> k
08:01	<damnation> i did not install the package
08:01	<jammcq> so what problem are you having?
08:02	<damnation> the client boots up but after the nfs script
08:02	i get connection refused
08:02	<jammcq> at what point do you get that error?
08:02	during NFS, or has NFS completed ?
08:02	<damnation> the nfs script is completed it says done
08:03	<jammcq> what's the next thing it says?
08:03	<damnation> then connection : connetion refused and then keeps repeating
08:03	read : connetion refused
08:03	<jammcq> "connection refused" keeps repeating?
08:03	<damnation> yes
08:03	<jammcq> or NFS keeps repeating?
08:04	<damnation> ill type it down
08:04	begin: running /scripts/nfs-premount ....
08:04	Done.
08:05	connect: Connection refused
08:05	and then it keeps repeating
08:05	<jammcq> ok, so that's just the nfs-premount
08:05	nfs hasn't finished yet
08:05	<damnation> read: connection reused
08:05	<jammcq> ok, do this:
08:05	showmount -e
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08:06	<damnation> opt/ltsp *
08:06	<jammcq> opt or /opt ?
08:06	<damnation> d slash opt
08:06	<jammcq> ok, do this: grep root-path /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
08:07	<damnation> no such file
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08:07	<damnation> wait
08:07	<jammcq> ok, try this: grep root-path /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
08:08	<damnation> option root-path ".opt/ltsp/i386
08:08	<jammcq> "." ?
08:08	<damnation> never mind that
08:08	typo
08:08	<jammcq> so that looks right
08:08	<damnation> :-)
08:08	<vagrantc> presuming there aren't more typos :P
08:08	<jammcq> heh
08:09	<damnation>
08:09	<vagrantc> damnation: why not just cut-and-paste? :P
08:09	<damnation> its running in vmware
08:09	<jammcq> oh jeez
08:09	<damnation> lol , soz still a student
08:10	ill fire up putty
08:11	<jammcq> you running this on a windows host ?
08:11	<damnation> yes (blush)
08:11	<vagrantc> the plot thickens
08:11	* jammcq goes and washes his hands really really well
08:11	<damnation> lol
08:12	<vagrantc> damnation: when people are helping you troubleshoot problems... it's usually good to explain anything weird you might be doing :P
08:12	<damnation> but understand i will change in the future lol , its all the fault of the skool
08:13	ok soz , ill do so in the future i just didn't think vmware whould be the problem
08:14	anything else i can do ?
08:14	<jammcq> do you have a real thin client? or is that virtual too?
08:14	<damnation> its a virtual to
08:14	<vagrantc> damnation: no, but it's worth mentioning
08:15	<damnation> its a dos client with a pxe
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08:18	<damnation> so what happens now ? i get a gun and shoot myself for using the evil OS ?
08:18	:)
08:19	<jammcq> umm, that wouldn't be enough :)
08:19	can you paste your dhcpd.conf file to the ltsp pastebot ?
08:19	<damnation> lol
08:19	<jammcq> !pastebot
08:19	<ltspbot`> jammcq: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
08:20	<ogra-classmate> hmm, how can he have ltsp-server-standlone installed but there is no /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
08:20	thats not possible
08:21	<jammcq> umm
08:21	<damnation> i do have it
08:21	its the same text
08:21	i forgot to type a d
08:21	<ltsppbot> "damnation" pasted "authoritative; subnet 192.168." (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/144
08:22	<ogra-classmate> (03:05:07 PM) jammcq: ok, do this: grep root-path /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
08:22	(03:05:38 PM) damnation: no such file
08:23	<damnation> option root-path "opt/ltsp/i386";
08:23	<jammcq> that's not the typical ltsp-5 dhcpd conf file
08:23	<ogra-classmate> filename "pxelinux.0"; ??
08:23	<jammcq> but it should work
08:23	<ogra-classmate> thats surely wrong
08:23	<damnation> yes i boxed it together myself
08:23	with reading from the net
08:24	<jammcq> do this: grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
08:24	<ogra-classmate> the default file shipped by ltsp-server-standalone is already preconfigured to run out of the box if your client interface has an ip from the 192.168.0.0 net
08:24	you shouldnt even touch it
08:24	<damnation> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
08:24	<jammcq> have you moved pxelinux.0 ?
08:25	cuz your current setup shouldn't be working
08:25	<ogra-classmate> so that paste was the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
08:25	<damnation> its my first setup , yes i moved the pxelinux to the tftp boot
08:25	<jammcq> oye
08:25	<ogra-classmate> thats set up automatically by ltsp-build-client, you shouldnt need to touch it either
08:25	<damnation> i also made the default with the mac file , and made the file
08:25	<jammcq> ok, lets check your network config. run this:
08:26	ifconfig -a
08:26	and paste the output to the pastebot
08:26	<ogra-classmate> so what you pasted to the pastebot was /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ??
08:26	or any other file ?
08:26	<ltsppbot> "damnation" pasted "eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWadd" (25 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/145
08:27	<damnation> no i pasted the dhcp3 dhcp.conf
08:27	<jammcq> damnation: do you have a /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file?
08:27	<ogra-classmate> that file is ignored if /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf exists
08:27	<jammcq> btw, your eth0 looks reasonable
08:27	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: this is on debian
08:27	ogra-classmate: i don't think it's ignored.
08:27	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: and you hacked that ?
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08:28	* jammcq wonders which nfs-server package was installed
08:28	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: afaik mdz made that change in debian
08:28	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: maybe i misunderstood your "ignored" comment
08:28	<damnation> how do i look it up
08:28	<ogra-classmate> jammcq: ltsp-server-standalone should depend on the right one
08:28	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: mdz never made any changes in debian
08:29	ogra-classmate: it's only been pere, myself, otavio and stratus who've actually worked on debian ltsp directly
08:29	<jammcq> ogra-classmate: is that true of debian too ?
08:30	<vagrantc> ltsp-server only depends on nfs-kernel-server
08:30	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc:
08:30	if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ]; then
08:30	CONFIG_FILE=/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
08:30	fi
08:30	* vagrantc wonders where that code is
08:30	<ogra-classmate> mdz was the dhcp3-server maintainer at that time in debian and i think he made the change there
08:30	the initscript
08:30	<damnation> the output in the ltsp/dhcpd.conf is diffrent
08:31	i know it does'nt use that one in the ltsp dir
08:31	<vagrantc> ah.
08:31	<ogra-classmate> thats badly broken
08:31	<damnation> becouse i doesn't work if i remove the dhcp3 /dhcp
08:31	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: nope.
08:31	ogra-classmate: code's not in dhcp3-server init script
08:31	<jammcq> damnation: I know you are excited, and I know you are in a hurry, but you REALLY need to type correctly. 'ltsp/dhcpd.conf' doesn't tell us whether you mean '/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf' or something else. PLEASE be complete, and correct in your typing
08:31	<ogra-classmate> meh
08:32	<vagrantc> better than typing correctly, cut and paste
08:32	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: you should document that difference
08:32	(or better fix it)
08:32	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: that seems like insane behavior to me ...
08:32	<damnation> i will sorry
08:33	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: thats default behavior since day one and mentioned in the docs
08:33	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: i've never seen any of these docs.
08:33	<ogra-classmate> this way you dont br4eak existing configs and give the admin stikll the option to copy it over for his ltsp server
08:34	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: does it still read /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf ?
08:34	<jammcq> ah, but you do break existing config. install ltsp-standalone-server, and reboot your server, and presto..... your existing dhcpd behaviour is now broken
08:34	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: because when people edit that file, they sure expect it to modify dhcp3-server's behavior.
08:34	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: well
08:34	dhcp3 (3.0.2-1ubuntu2) breezy; urgency=low
08:34	* Allow ltsp to override the default dhcpd.conf
08:34	-- Matt Zimmerman <mdz@ubuntu.com> Wed, 10 Aug 2005 12:45:53 -0700
08:35	<vagrantc> s,Allow,Force,
08:35	<ogra-classmate> we use it since two years like that
08:36	and its mentioned on many wikipages on the edubuntu and ubuntu wikis
08:36	<vagrantc> no wonder i haven't seen it
08:36	<ogra-classmate> as well as on the ltsp wiki i think (NOT SURE ABOUT THAT)
08:36	OOPS
08:36	* jammcq doesn't see a point in arguing about it now. it is what it is
08:36	<ogra-classmate> right
08:37	but that we have qa difference in behavior here is bad
08:37	<jammcq> i'm not crazy about how that works, but it's there
08:37	<vagrantc> and it won't ever be there in debian, i assure you.
08:37	<ogra-classmate> well, i'm very happy we dont break esxisting configs due to it
08:37	<vagrantc> that would be an RC bug in debian.
08:37	<jammcq> even if you do break them :)
08:38	<ogra-classmate> jammcq: i dont break the config
08:38	<jammcq> umm, yeah
08:38	<ogra-classmate> the old config persists
08:38	<vagrantc> if you ignore a working configuration file, it's totally broken from the user's perspective
08:38	<ogra-classmate> ;)
08:38	<vagrantc> oh, yes, you only break the server, not the configuration file :P
08:38	<jammcq> some poor slob had a perfectly working dhcpd, then installed ltsp-server-standalone, and now it's broken
08:38	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: so i should sed through it and inject my values to get automation going?
08:39	<damnation> oh look a birdy :p
08:39	<jammcq> heh
08:39	<ogra-classmate> jammcq: sudo cp /etc/dhcp3-server/dhcpd.conf /etc/ltsp
08:39	:P
08:39	<vagrantc> which then breaks ltsp-server-standalone's configuration
08:39	<jammcq> ogra-classmate: sure, that works, after the guy got fired, for breaking his entire network
08:39	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: why ?
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08:40	<jammcq> poor guy's on the unemployment line now
08:40	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: because ltsp-server-standalone's dhcp feature no longer functions, and you'll have ugly upgrade questions about replacing the file
08:40	<damnation> and i did not even start working sig
08:41	<ogra-classmate> jammcq: sorry for him, really, bit there is no doc on the ubuntu wiki that is ltsp and dhcp related that doesnt talk about that file
08:41	<jammcq> damnation: ummmmmm, yours should be working
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08:41	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: its no conffile
08:42	you wont get upgrade questions
08:42	<damnation> ok lol but it isn't , what todo .? fresh install then
08:42	<jammcq> dhcpd.conf is not a conf file?
08:42	<ogra-classmate> jammcq: not for dpkg
08:42	<vagrantc> jammcq: do not confuse "conf file" with "configuration file"
08:42	<jammcq> wow
08:42	my bad
08:42	<ogra-classmate> jammcq: you have to mnention files to dpkg while packaging so it monitors if they are changed
08:43	<jammcq> I guess any idiot with half a brain should know that a "conf" file isn't a "configuration" file :)
08:43	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: i'm pretty sure it's a conf file on debian.
08:43	<ogra-classmate> we explicitly dont want that for this file
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08:43	<jammcq> maybe "conf" stands for "Confusion"
08:43	<vagrantc> jammcq: it's a debian-ism. i don't look down on your for not knowing this obscure bit of policy
08:43	<ogra-classmate> heh
08:44	* jammcq is getting hungry, what's for breakfast?
08:44	* jammcq is still wishing he had some of that wonderful Sevilla Orange Juice
08:44	<damnation>
08:44	<ogra-classmate> get the machine ;)
08:44	<jammcq> it's not the machine, it's the Oranges :)
08:45	<ogra-classmate> and some orange trees perhaps :)
08:45	<jammcq> yeah, those would last about 1 week, here in Michigan
08:45	<damnation> anyway's thank's for the help ppl i appriciate it , maybe ill come back laters
08:45	<ogra-classmate> well, wait one, two years, global warming will help :)
08:45	<jammcq> ogra-classmate: yeah, I guess someone will be a winner with global warming
08:46	maybe we should just "look at the bright side" of global warming :)
08:46	<ogra-classmate> our year is pretty exactly one month ahead here
08:46	<vagrantc> global warming, while technically correct, is a misleading term.
08:46	many places will likely get very cold.
08:46	<jammcq> our year seems behind. it's been rather cold
08:46	<ogra-classmate> yeah
08:46	<vagrantc> or unpredictable
08:47	<ogra-classmate> i had my first strawberries from the garden yesterday
08:47	and they were damned sweet
08:48	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: ok, you second-guessed me on some debian-ness the other day. now's my turn. you sure /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf is not a "conf file" on ubuntu?
08:48	<ogra-classmate> it wasnt one ... if it got one thats a merge mistake on my side
08:49	<vagrantc> unless there are significant differences in the debhelper utilities, i suspect it is a conf file ...
08:50	i made some nice progress yesterday ... now i forget where i was going with it ...
08:50	think i'm about ready to split ltsp-client into two packages
08:51	<ogra-classmate> good
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08:52	<vagrantc> also dropped support for XFree86 yesterday, finally :)
08:52	<jammcq> wow, cool
08:52	<vagrantc> hopefully nobody still uses it
08:52	there's probably more places where we could drop support ...
08:53	<damnation> hey , the nfsroot=/opt/ltsp/i386 \| is this correct to where the nfsroot is ?
08:54	<vagrantc> damnation: ?
08:54	damnation: could you re-phrase the question, perhaps with more context
08:54	<damnation> the default fine in pxelinux.cfg has a line append initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp nfsroot=/opt/ltsp/i386
08:55	and i was wondering if the root to the nfs was correct
08:55	fine = file
08:55	as it is a nfs problem
08:55	<vagrantc> DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp
08:56	is all i see in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
08:56	damnation: which file are you talking about?
08:56	<damnation> under var/lib/tftboot i have the folder pxelinux.cfg with in it a default file
08:57	<vagrantc> damnation: grep filename /etc/*/dhcpd.conf
08:58	<ltsppbot> "damnation" pasted "/etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf: filenam" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/146
08:59	<vagrantc> damnation: unless you have your tftp server configured very weird, it's probably not looking in /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg
09:00	MoL0ToV has quit IRC
09:00	<damnation> now i get nfsmount: need a path
09:00	ill figure it out thanks
09:00	<vagrantc> damnation: grep root-path /etc/*/dhcpd.conf
09:00	<damnation> i know where to look now
09:01	:-)
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09:19	<pablo__> hi! ive installed ltsp5 using ubuntu 7.04. when clients boot gdm apears but when users login screen goes black and after a while gdm appears again
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09:37	<sbalneav> Morning all!
09:39	<ogra-classmate> !s
09:39	<ltspbot`> ogra-classmate: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:39	<sbalneav> wheee
09:40	yeah, last night I managed to get it to log in. So, now I have to write the support routines to detect the expire (a bunch of read() with select() etc etc stuff)
09:40	<jammcq> !s
09:40	<ltspbot`> jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:41	<sbalneav> We'll have to make mods to the greeters to handle a "your password has expired, please enter a new password, oh you mutton head you didn't enter the same password correctly etc etc etc.)
09:41	Morning jammcq
09:42	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: i think i got a bit further with the kernel ... i still need to prove it, but i think we'll gain a lot by using a different scheduler in the kernel
09:42	<sbalneav> What scheduler is used now?
09:42	<ogra-classmate> on the classmate using elevator=anticipatory as kernel option nearly doubles the responsiveness of the whole thing
09:43	<sbalneav> I prefer elevator=musak :)
09:43	<ogra-classmate> cfq is currently used
09:43	<jammcq> I prefer escalator
09:44	<ogra-classmate> `i tried with the deadline scheduler, thats speeds up even more but hangs the system after a while for some seconds
09:44	<vagrantc> sbalneav: do you know if the expiry code is localized?
09:44	sbalneav: that could really mess things up
09:45	<sbalneav> Nope, I have no idea.
09:45	<ogra-classmate> we'll get it locdalized if it isnt
09:46	<sbalneav> I've got no clue as how to handle that on my end.
09:46	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: yes, but if sbalneav is reading the output to get a response ...
09:46	<ogra-classmate> but regarding who maintains ssh i would assume it is
09:46	pablo_ has quit IRC
09:46	<ogra-classmate> colin is very cautious about transaltions
09:47	<vagrantc> it will be very hard to handle the ssh login and expiry code in LDM if the responses are localized
09:48	<ogra-classmate> we could force a LANG=C worst case
09:49	i guess
09:49	<vagrantc> and then switch back somehow?
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09:51	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: well, LANG=C ssh -X user@server 'LAQNG=$LDM_LANG Xsession'
09:51	like that
09:51	<vagrantc> yeah
09:51	<ogra-classmate> its ugly but works
09:53	<Gadi> hey, guys
09:54	<sbalneav> ergh.
09:54	ssh -l goober localhost "LANG=C /bin/bash --login"
09:54	goober@localhost's password:
09:54	Permission denied, please try again.
09:54	goober@localhost's password:
09:54	WARNING: Your password has expired.
09:54	<jammcq> Gadi: good morning
09:54	<sbalneav> Password change required but no TTY available.
09:54	Morning Gadi
09:54	<Gadi> seems we all had the same idea for this Monday ;)
09:55	<vagrantc> ?
09:55	<sbalneav> ah
09:55	ssh -t -l goober localhost "LANG=C /bin/bash --login"
09:55	goober@localhost's password:
09:55	WARNING: Your password has expired.
09:55	You must change your password now and login again!
09:55	Changing password for goober
09:55	(current) UNIX password:
09:56	ogra-classmate: can you set up an expired account on your box, and verify that works for another language?
09:57	jsgotangco has quit IRC
09:57	<sbalneav> shadow file should look like:
09:57	goober:Eou/BHDN/g.Tw:13000:0:99:7:::
09:57	the 1300 and 99 are the important bits.
09:58	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: not atm, my classmate only knows english
09:59	<sbalneav> hm
09:59	nf1 has quit IRC
10:00	<sbalneav> need to set some box up with a lang other then eng
10:00	nf1 has joined #ltsp
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10:22	<vagrantc> sbalneav: you can practice your french :)
10:23	<sbalneav> Mais oui!
10:23	<vagrantc> i could try and set up a spanish install from qemu
10:24	nf1 has quit IRC
10:24	* vagrantc boots a virtual thin client with the new "ltsp-client-core" package installed
10:25	<ogra-classmate> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
10:25	unionfs 278M 215M 63M 78% /
10:25	no nchance for me
10:30	<vagrantc> sbalneav: working on testing it on an es_ES system
10:31	<sbalneav> cool
10:31	<vagrantc> the other project i work on, simple-cdd, makes it really easy to make custom installer CDs and test them in qemu
10:32	<sbalneav> Another one that would be nice to figure out would be ssh -t -l foo remote "LANG=C PS1=LTSPLOGINENDED /bin/bash --login"
10:32	<vagrantc> and ssh'ing to a reasonably fast machine in portland makes it possible for me to actually run it. :)
10:32	<sbalneav> the PS1 seems to get overriden
10:32	<vagrantc> LTSPLOGINENDED ?
10:33	<sbalneav> That way you could search for that string, and know that you're successfully logged in and sitting at a prompt.
10:33	hmm
10:33	echo LTSPLOGINENDED ; /bin/bash ?
10:33	yep
10:33	that'll work.
10:34	<vagrantc> what's wrong with LTSP_CLIENT=ip.ad.dre.ss
10:34	<sbalneav> oin$ ssh -t -l goober localhost "LANG=C echo FOOO ; /bin/bash"
10:34	goober@localhost's password:
10:34	FOOO
10:34	goober@oin:~$
10:34	Well, you're going to do that anyway.
10:34	what you're wanting is when you script the login, you have some definite way of knowing you've successfully logged in.
10:34	<vagrantc> so the password isn't being taken from stdin ?
10:35	right.
10:35	<sbalneav> Password's being taken from the greeter, and passeed to the ssh's stdin
10:48	damnation has quit IRC
10:52	<ogra-classmate> heh, that mail to ltsp-developer is an ubuntu feature request list :)
10:52	<jammcq> yeah, I saw that too
10:52	not very LTSP specific
10:53	<ogra-classmate> yup
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11:01	* vagrantc can't wait to see it
11:03	C1ph3r has quit IRC
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11:29	<vagrantc> sbalneav: well, my first try suggests that ssh and password expiry don't localize ... or only partially so
11:31	Retype new UNIX password:
11:31	passwd: contraseña actualizada correctamente
11:31	Connection to localhost closed.
11:32	* vagrantc notices that debian etch doesn't have python-gnomecanvas
11:32	<vagrantc> nor sid
11:32	introduced in ubuntu edgy
11:34	<Gadi> stupid question: are you trying to gather all of the input first and then "expect" it to the CLI?
11:34	<vagrantc> Gadi: that seems to be the basic jist
11:35	<Gadi> perhaps you could just gui-fy the entire interaction and pass-through the prompts untouched
11:35	* vagrantc doesn't like the idea of password handling code being poorly tested
11:35	<Gadi> then, its just a matter of the GUI supporting the fonts
11:35	<vagrantc> like, put it all in an xterm ?
11:35	<Gadi> no
11:36	just dont gather the entire interaction for a "preseeding"
11:36	<ogra-classmate> vagrantc: its in python-gnome
11:36	<Gadi> but, do the whole process interactively
11:36	<ogra-classmate> ubuntu has split it out for xubuntu
11:36	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: python-gnome2
11:36	<ogra-classmate> yeah
11:36	we have split it because you can use gnomecanvas without the rest of gnome
11:37	and xubuntu makes some use of it
11:37	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: i think we used to do python-gnomecanvas \| python-gnome2 ... but i think i dropped it thinking it was a sarge-ism
11:37	<ogra-classmate> i think debian discussed the same split though
11:37	* vagrantc would like to see it
11:37	<ogra-classmate> its a whille ago
11:38	but hey, we'll get rid of gnomecanvas anyway :)
11:38	<vagrantc> sounds like it
11:38	i'm just trying as fast as i can to get some new packages into debian
11:38	<ogra-classmate> backports
11:38	or sid
11:38	?
11:38	<vagrantc> sid
11:38	<ogra-classmate> ah
11:39	right, i need a gutsy matching one as well
11:39	<vagrantc> trying to bring debian and ubuntu closer in sync
11:39	<ogra-classmate> else the first cd will break
11:39	<vagrantc> and implement some of these features i've long been putting off
11:39	<ogra-classmate> yeah
11:40	<sbalneav> Hm, yeah, passing the prompts through.
11:40	<ogra-classmate> i will hold back from ltsp apart from ldm and concentrate on the gui parts and speed issues for now
11:40	<sbalneav> We'll have to re-think the greeter a bit.
11:40	<ogra-classmate> feel free
11:41	<sbalneav> I always do! :)
11:41	<Gadi> actually, we already have the GUI done
11:41	<ogra-classmate> so the feedback comes directly from ssh to teh greeter instead of ansynchronous as before ?
11:41	<Gadi> just need to modify the ldm script a bit
11:42	right
11:42	<vagrantc> Gadi: this is part of the C re-write
11:42	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: there is no script anymore :)
11:42	<Gadi> what?
11:42	man
11:42	why?
11:42	<ogra-classmate> all C
11:42	speed
11:42	<sbalneav> Gadi: I've already started on a C rewrite :)
11:42	<vagrantc> the complaint that trumps all other complaints
11:42	<Gadi> there's really no speed hit because of the ldm script is there?
11:42	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: so you need additional user input ?
11:43	<sbalneav> Gadi: Apparently, 20 seconds.
11:43	<ogra-classmate> which the current greeter doesnt provide?
11:43	<Gadi> what?!
11:43	<sbalneav> On slow hardware
11:43	<Gadi> because of /usr/sbin/ldm?
11:43	and not the greeter?
11:43	<sbalneav> yep.
11:43	<Gadi> huh
11:43	<sbalneav> Hard to beleive.
11:43	<ogra-classmate> the greeter was never reqally slow, just way to big
11:44	<Gadi> well, I have a slow greeter, but I thought it was all the greeter part
11:44	<sbalneav> But I guess python's a busy little bee, and uses lots of cucles.
11:44	err cycles.
11:44	<Gadi> huh
11:44	<sbalneav> so, since all the interested parties are here in the room... I think...
11:44	jammcq: ping
11:44	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: so what do you want to change in the greeter?
11:44	<vagrantc> i think it's more related to how multiple instances of the same code get duplicated
11:44	<sbalneav> Well, lets hash this out, see what we need.
11:45	ok, here's the situation, as I see it.
11:45	<Gadi> well, at least in the py script, I would just pass through the prompts from ssh to change the "Username" text
11:45	<ogra-classmate> if its only additionalinput you only need in case the password is expired i'd prefer a separate gtk app that just pops in front
11:45	<sbalneav> I like gadi's idea of the setting the display=workstationip to get around the ssh, and what with some of the loadbalancing stuff we want in, I think ldm's the way to go.
11:46	* vagrantc waits for the situation as sbalneav sees it
11:46	damnation has joined #LTSP
11:46	<damnation> hi there
11:46	<sbalneav> However, we have a problem with password expiry.
11:46	<ogra-classmate> well,we have lots more
11:46	like smartcards
11:46	and other rather rare pam setups
11:47	<sbalneav> More specifically, an expired password isn't handled by the LOCAL ssh, it just passes through text from the REMOTE end, allowing the user to change the password.
11:47	<ogra-classmate> there are many cases where you need user interaction
11:47	<damnation> hey how do i fix this , port mapper failure -rpc: unable to receive
11:47	<sbalneav> ogra-classmate: yeah, but to fix those, we need local auth.
11:47	<ogra-classmate> shudder
11:47	<Gadi> not if it is all a matter of ssh auth
11:47	<sbalneav> if we had local auth NOW, we could fix this easy. Just have LDM do a pam-session.
11:47	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: its rather pam and ssh together
11:47	<sbalneav> however, in the short term, we need to do this.
11:48	<ogra-classmate> the combo makes it hard
11:48	<sbalneav> Here's an example of the problem.
11:48	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: if we can do pam sessions we can use gdm
11:48	then ldm could go
11:49	<sbalneav> ogra-classmate: Well, there will still be some benefit to LDM, such as load balancing, but you're right.
11:49	<ogra-classmate> not having pam auth on the thin clients was 6the first reason to write ldm
11:49	<sbalneav> anyway, just to let people try, and check my math, make sure I'm not smoking crack, try this:
11:49	1) Set up a user account locally, call it "goober". Make it expired.
11:50	2) ssh -t -X -l goober localhost "xterm", will ask for a password, but then fail out with a "need to change password, but no controlling tty" message.
11:51	So, we can't kick off the xsession in the initial ssh
11:51	My solution to this is:
11:51	3) ssh -t -M -S /tmp/foosocket -l goober localhos "/bin/bash --login"
11:51	<ogra-classmate> ++
11:52	<sbalneav> this gets us a bash shell, and allows us to script the password exchange.
11:52	Then we've got a command socket set up, which we can use to launch the Xsession, etc/
11:52	<vagrantc> what about xterm -e ssh -t -M -S /tmp/foosocket -l goober localhost
11:53	<ogra-classmate> and then ?
11:53	<Gadi> yuck
11:53	<sbalneav> Then, from there, we're plumbed and ready to go.
11:53	<vagrantc> well, to handle the password expiry
11:54	<ogra-classmate> shudder
11:54	nah
11:54	lets have a proper gui
11:54	<sbalneav> Now, the 99% use case is, we simply have to pass the password, and we're in.
11:54	<Gadi> all we need to do is Guify the exchange
11:54	<ogra-classmate> right
11:54	<vagrantc> that's what i'm thinking, too ... a quick and dirty way to do so.
11:54	<Gadi> doesnt matter how many prompts
11:54	<sbalneav> However, some small percentage of the time, we need to say, "oops, this didn;t work, we need a new password"
11:54	<ogra-classmate> and since its a rather rare occurence i'd plumb in an external gtk app
11:54	<sbalneav> Now, we can handle this a couuple of ways.
11:55	<ogra-classmate> so you dont need all the stuff in ram even if the password is fine
11:56	<sbalneav> 1) icky way: simple greeter, and if we need another new password, launch something that grabs it, checks it twice, naughty or nice, etc. And passes it to the ssh.
11:56	<Gadi> (side note: can you even expire a password in Users and Groups? )
11:56	<ogra-classmate> yeah that would just be another popup win in the code
11:56	<sbalneav> 2) second would be to have the greeter have some kind of command socket that we could pass it commands on the fly, like "ask login", "ask password" "print this error", "ask new password" etc.
11:56	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: you can set a lifetime iirc
11:57	sbalneav: ++
11:57	<sbalneav> So the greeter itself has a stdin/stdout, that you interact with it via.
11:57	<ogra-classmate> that sounds sane
11:57	we can need it for other stuff as well
11:58	<Gadi> right, but try not to rely on parsing the ssh prompts
11:58	thats what gets you into localization hell
11:58	<sbalneav> Well, we might not be able to get away from doing some of that
11:58	So the solution we came up with this morning is:
11:58	ssh -t....... "LANG=C /bin/bash --login"
11:59	<Gadi> just treat everything as an input box
11:59	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: new ldm is supposed to be 100% localized ion all aspects
11:59	<Gadi> right
11:59	<sbalneav> Force the language to english. Gross, but workable.
11:59	<Gadi> thats what im trying to achieve for you
11:59	<ogra-classmate> under the hood we should use english and have proper .po files for teh translators
11:59	<Gadi> if ssh expects input, put up an input box
11:59	<ogra-classmate> right
11:59	<sbalneav> Right, but here's the problem:
12:00	<ogra-classmate> but with our own transklation
12:00	<sbalneav> Launch ssh
12:00	read input "should be 'Password:'"
12:00	Now, we either get a shell, OR
12:00	something else happens.
12:00	I.e. "Your password has expired...."
12:01	If we're to know that we need to prompt for further input, we have to read what ssh has given us, and parse it.
12:01	<ogra-classmate> right
12:02	<sbalneav> So, I think we can't realistically get away from doing a bit of parsing.
12:02	<Gadi> well, it seems to me like ssh will do one of two things:
12:02	* ogra-classmate doesnt see the problem
12:02	<sbalneav> However, we should be able to keep it to one or two words.
12:02	like "expired"
12:02	or "incorrect"
12:02	<Gadi> wait for stdin or end process
12:02	<ogra-classmate> just dio a regex patternmatch
12:02	whats your problem ?
12:02	<Gadi> can we not detect if it is waiting for input or the process has ended?
12:03	<sbalneav> The problem is, the process won't end.
12:03	<ogra-classmate> which is fine
12:03	<Gadi> ok ok
12:03	no problems
12:03	<sbalneav> We want to keep that command socket open, so once we log in we want it to sit there.
12:03	Gadi: We're not beating up on you :)
12:03	it's a tough problem is all.
12:03	<ogra-classmate> and start subsequent processes like gnome on it
12:03	<Gadi> just wondering if we could get away from maintaining translation tables
12:04	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: whats tough about it ?
12:04	<sbalneav> Well, conceptionally it's not tough. Coding, it's a lot of crank-turning :)
12:04	<ogra-classmate> look if we get anything back from ssh ... if so, make a patternmatch ... if it con6tains "expired" leunch the matching tool
12:04	<sbalneav> right.
12:05	So, does everyone seem to think my approach seems, if not perfect, sane?
12:05	<ogra-classmate> if the tool has ended run the session scripts through the socket ....
12:05	its sexy imho
12:06	<sbalneav> ogra-classmate: right.
12:06	<Gadi> yeah - its not a bad solution at all
12:06	the most work will be the translating ;)
12:06	<ogra-classmate> which we dont have to do :)
12:06	* ogra-classmate cheers for launchpad
12:06	<Gadi> it would prolly be wise to peek into the ssh source and look for responses
12:07	<ogra-classmate> right
12:07	<Gadi> its always nice to have a complete tool
12:07	:)
12:07	<sbalneav> What we really SHOULD do is pull the .po's from ssh :)
12:07	<Gadi> heh, that too
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12:07	<sbalneav> Because we don't want to use one word for "expired" in one place, and another in another.
12:08	i.e. it's translated as "expired" in one place and "too old" in the other.
12:08	<Gadi> oh, and I wouldnt worry about smartcards until we address them directly - my hunch is no local pam required
12:08	<sbalneav> ok, I need a few more days "rough" coding to get SOMETHING going, at that point (I'm hoping by wed or thur) I'll be able to bzr push something for people to look at.
12:09	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: well, we need to handle them through ssh which wasnt possible with the old ldm design
12:09	<Gadi> why not?
12:09	<ogra-classmate> you need pam handling on the server side but there is communication involved we couldnt do yet
12:10	<sbalneav> ok, I gotta go for my lunchtime walk.
12:10	be back later
12:10	<ogra-classmate> with the socket we now have an open communication socket to attach to
12:10	* ogra-classmate has to go as well for 1h
12:10	<Gadi> k
12:19	<damnation> someone able to help
12:19	my portmapper isn't allowing outgoing connections
12:20	or rather its unable to receive
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12:49	<vagrantc> so what i hear is maintaining our own copy of the set of translations we're going to interact with? that's crazy.
12:50	J45p3r has joined #ltsp
12:50	<Gadi> vagrantc: I think we can take from ssh
12:50	<sbalneav> vagrantc: I'm open to suggestions.
12:50	Back, BTW
12:51	<Gadi> hey, guys: how come we don't use unionfs on the client (but ltsp-client-setup makes /dev/root unionfs) ?
12:51	what am I missing?
12:52	<sbalneav> Where would we use unionfs?
12:52	In localdevs?
12:52	<Gadi> in general
12:52	<vagrantc> unionfs didn't work over NFS during the initial implementation. we should revisit it
12:52	<Gadi> ah, ok
12:52	it just seemed fishy that it was being set and not used
12:53	<vagrantc> i know it works, because i've used it with debian-live recently
12:53	<Gadi> that would/could speed up the boot some (since we wouldn't have all the copying from nfs to ram)
12:53	<vagrantc> Gadi: though, it would also probably waste some ram when booting. right now much of the filesystem is unwriteable
12:53	<sbalneav> vagrantc: Is there a way we could use the same strings from ssh? I don't know anything about i18n, so I'd need some help there.
12:54	<vagrantc> sbalneav: maybe. i don't know it real well myself.
12:54	<Gadi> vagrantc: do we not use RAM for all the tmpfs's already?
12:55	<vagrantc> Gadi: yes, but if more parts of the filesystem were writeable, more things would be written to ram.
12:55	<Gadi> i was thinking instead of the tmpfs's
12:55	<vagrantc> Gadi: like /lib/modules/*/modules.dep files might get updated
12:56	Gadi: what are you going to add to the union?
12:56	Gadi: i was thinking of layering tmpfs on top of NFS ... what were you proposing?
12:56	<Gadi> just make a writable tmpfs mount and add it to the union (but dont copy data to it)
12:56	right
12:56	<vagrantc> so ... you're still using a tmpfs
12:57	<Gadi> so, instead of many tmpfs's
12:57	<vagrantc> there's only one tmpfs now
12:57	<Gadi> the key is no copying
12:57	I see a million tmpfs's
12:57	;)
12:57	<vagrantc> except that during the boot process things will get modified and copied into the tmpfs that won't on a read-only filesystem
12:57	<Gadi> all bind-mounted
12:58	and then the contents populated
12:58	<vagrantc> it looks like a billion tmpfs ... but it's only one, with bind mounts
12:59	<Gadi> right, ok - but if we layer a tmpfs on top of the nfs, we wouldn't need to copy files
12:59	all the mods would be written to the tmpfs
12:59	its prolly splitting hairs
12:59	not much of a speed drag in those file-copies
13:00	<vagrantc> and what i'm saying is that it ends up copying even more into the tmpfs in the end
13:00	<Gadi> tho, I imagine the more dependency on the network, the worse off we are
13:00	<vagrantc> several megabytes
13:00	<Gadi> really?
13:00	<vagrantc> yes.
13:01	<Gadi> how come?
13:01	it doesnt need to copy the contents for the union to work, does it?
13:01	<vagrantc> there are several things in the boot process that will update files trivially, which will then copy them into the initramfs
13:02	and the biggest thing will be the debconf databases
13:02	which will get backed up
13:02	eats up about 3MB unless we "clean" it out at the end.
13:03	though how to properly clean it is dubious
13:03	<Gadi> I see - what about whiting out those dirs?
13:03	<vagrantc> we need them
13:03	currently ... when X autoconfigures itself we maybe won't need them
13:03	which would be a huge speed improvement
13:03	<Gadi> how about excluding the dirs from the union?
13:03	so you still get the readonly files
13:04	<vagrantc> well, we still need them writeable
13:04	it's a mess, i tell you :)
13:04	<Gadi> so how is it any different with unionfs than what we do now?
13:04	<vagrantc> we do some ugly hacks that would be harder to do with unionfs
13:05	* Gadi shrugs - according to ltsp-client-setup it looks like you don't do anything too hacky
13:05	<Gadi> other than only bind-mount-copy certain dirs
13:06	which (looks) akin to just a unionfs with a copy
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13:08	<pablo_> my clients wont show gnome desktop after loging in gdm :( instead nothing appears and after a while gdm login screen is displayed again
13:09	<vagrantc> again, we just need to try unionfs again and see what happens.
13:09	<pablo_> im using ubuntu 7.04 and ltsp5
13:09	<vagrantc> pablo_: did you configure it to use GDM, or is it really using LDM ?
13:11	<pablo_> mm i didnt configure it to use gdm (i guess its using it) but maybe its using ldm
13:11	ltsp 4.2 used gdm right?
13:11	ltsp5 uses ldm?
13:11	<vagrantc> by default, yes. ltsp5 uses LDM.
13:12	<pablo_> anyway why cant i see the gnome desktop after login? :(
13:12	should i use gdm instead?
13:12	<vagrantc> no
13:12	we just need to troubleshoot the problem
13:13	pablo_: is there anything in your user's ~/.xsession-errors file suggesting something wrong?
13:13	pablo_: can you log in as that user just using ssh ?
13:14	<mistik1> good day guys
13:14	<pablo_> let me see..
13:14	<sbalneav> pablo_: You probably need to run a sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
13:15	Hello mistik1
13:15	<vagrantc> sbalneav: does that problem still exist in feisty ?
13:15	<Gadi> mistik1 !!!
13:15	<mistik1> ;-)
13:17	<pablo_> vagrantc: yes im loged in via ssh with the problematic user. i lookes at .xsessionerrors and..
13:18	lots of errors apper related to sabayon (profile editor)
13:18	but no sure if any of those are really the cause :( i tried loogin with a normal user (in the terminals)
13:19	and same happend (normal user means im not using sabayon profile editor to customize the profile)
13:19	<vagrantc> no.
13:19	it's probably some problem with the ssh connection
13:19	pablo_: try what sbalneav said: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
13:19	<pablo_> sbalneav: sshkeys are already updated
13:20	i did it as soon as i installed ltsp
13:20	<vagrantc> pablo_: is there any chance your ip address has changed?
13:20	<pablo_> no.
13:21	wait you mean that x travels via ssh?
13:21	<vagrantc> yes
13:21	<pablo_> ok
13:21	<vagrantc> that's what LDM does
13:21	<Gadi> why not reboot with SCREEN_07=ldm and SCREEN_02=shell and then you can flip to the shell and check /var/log/ldm.log
13:21	<vagrantc> so look for ssh errors in ~/.xsession-errors
13:22	Gadi: does tty2 not contain anything on ubuntu?
13:22	<Gadi> vagrantc: the above works
13:22	that will get you a prompt on tty2
13:22	<vagrantc> ok.
13:23	<Gadi> hey, vagrantc: what sets $SERVER on the client?
13:23	<vagrantc> /usr/lib/ltsp/ltsp_config i think
13:24	<Gadi> ah, indeed - thx
13:28	<pablo_> Gadi: i canot log in the terminals via console
13:28	i do ctrl+alt+f1
13:29	<Gadi> pablo_: create a: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
13:29	and add:
13:29	SCREEN_07 = ldm
13:29	SCREEN_02 = shell
13:29	then, reboot the client
13:29	then, you chould be able to hit: ctrl-alt-f2 for shell on the client
13:29	and ctrl-alt-f7 for LDM
13:30	try logging in through ldm
13:30	when it is unsuccessful, go to the shell and cat /var/log/lgdm.log
13:30	er, ldm.log
13:30	it should tell you why it failed
13:31	--> sbalneav: perhaps this can be added to the greeter, as well, in some fashion: bring up the reason for failed login
13:31	<sbalneav> Right
13:32	That was my idea with haveing stdin/out interaction with the greeter, to feed it errors/modify it's action.
13:32	<jammcq> wow, wouldn't that be nice, to show the user what's wrong, rather than just blanking the screen and coming back to the login prompt :)
13:33	<Gadi> yeah, lets make it cryptic
13:33	like "Error 54673"
13:33	;)
13:33	<jammcq> even that would be better than what we have now :)
13:33	* Gadi imagines Windows developers sitting around a table
13:34	<jammcq> and what... ordering lunch ?
13:34	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: perfect, we could sell an error code book
13:34	<Gadi> heh
13:34	<ogra-classmate> several even ...
13:34	edition one, error 0001 to error 2000
13:34	etc :)
13:34	<Gadi> love it
13:34	<jammcq> we could call it a "resource kit"
13:35	<sbalneav> ogra-classmate: When's the next community council meeting?
13:35	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: nothing on the fridge ?
13:35	<sbalneav> What's the fridge?
13:35	<jammcq> heh
13:35	<ogra-classmate> fride.ubuntu.com/events
13:35	<jammcq> the thing where you post tings
13:35	<ogra-classmate> err
13:35	<sbalneav> ah
13:35	<jammcq> things
13:35	<ogra-classmate> fridge
13:36	<jammcq> a place for sticky magnets
13:36	<ogra-classmate> the thing you put magnets on ... with little notes
13:36	heh
13:37	http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event btw
13:37	<sbalneav> Can anyone voice an opinion in the meeting, or is it open only to CC members?
13:37	eurialo_ has joined #ltsp
13:37	<jammcq> or just http://fridge.ubuntu.com
13:37	<ogra-classmate> there is also an ical tou can import into evo
13:37	that keeps itself updated on changes :)
13:38	http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event/ical
13:38	<Gadi> wow, evo finally supports that? ;)
13:38	<ogra-classmate> since ages
13:39	<Gadi> and it doesnt make it crash?
13:39	<ogra-classmate> i use it since i work for canonical, so its older than two years
13:39	<Gadi> :)
13:39	<ogra-classmate> my evo doesnt crash
13:39	intrestingly i didnt notice that fact until you just mentioned it
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13:40	<ogra-classmate> it didnt crash on me since months
13:40	<Gadi> wow
13:40	<mhterres> afternoon
13:40	<Gadi> ogra-classmate: quick - make a wish
13:40	;)
13:41	<ogra-classmate> hehe
13:41	i wish that evo only ate 10% of ram it does ...
13:41	that would suit that kind of app
13:42	but thunderbird isnt much better so i wont complain
13:43	sbalneav: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/931
13:43	<sbalneav> Use mutt :)
13:43	<ogra-classmate> tomorrow evening
13:43	<sbalneav> 21:00 UTC, I assume?
13:43	* Gadi uses gmail now
13:43	<Gadi> ;)
13:44	<ogra-classmate> sbalneav: well, i like to read my mail in a gui client, but every client we have is either bulky or has horrible usability issues
13:44	<sbalneav> I found the same.
13:44	Long long ago...
13:44	in a galaxy, far, far away
13:45	* ogra-classmate remembers a time where mailclients used to be small, fast apps that did one thing
13:45	<sbalneav> I used to just use "mailx"
13:45	<ogra-classmate> ... display mail
13:45	<sbalneav> Then, I used elm
13:45	Then I used pine
13:45	<pablo_> Gadi: i did what you say and. i cant be sure of what is the error that causes gnome desktop not to display in the terminal
13:45	gepatino has joined #ltsp
13:45	<sbalneav> Now I use mutt.
13:45	<ogra-classmate> i was a long time elm user as well
13:45	then i switched to netscape/mozilla mail
13:45	<sbalneav> pablo_: Paste the output to the pastebot, and we'll look
13:46	!pastebot
13:46	<ltspbot`> sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
13:46	<ogra-classmate> and when it stopped wiping mailboxes i switched to evo
13:46	<Gadi> gmail is lightweight and always accessible
13:46	and fast
13:46	<ogra-classmate> well, it actually didnt have stopped when i switched ...
13:46	<Gadi> it works beautifully for me
13:47	<ogra-classmate> weell
13:47	<Gadi> heh
13:47	<vagrantc> alright folks: http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/vagrant-ltsp-client-core
13:47	<ogra-classmate> i have about 200000 mails ... i work for a software producing company ....
13:47	so indeed i use my horrible mailbox to stresstest our software :)
13:48	<Gadi> ah, internal spam :)
13:48	<ogra-classmate> but often it rather stresstests me
13:49	<pablo_> ok but i have a silly problem (im new in linux) where is the file /var/log/ldm.log so i can pastebot it? i mean i go to /var/log/ldm.log from the client ok. but forn the server? where do i find it? sorry for the silly questions :)
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13:50	<ogra-classmate> there is none for the server side
13:50	you can look in /home/$USER/.xsession-errors for all stuff that happened after the session started and in /var/log/auth.log for everything login related
13:52	<Gadi> pablo_: also, try this: edit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf and turn off local devices
13:52	and sound
13:52	and then try logging in again
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13:52	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: how should that help ?
13:53	<Gadi> it could be as simple as him not having ltspfs installed server side, while having local devices enabled
13:53	<ogra-classmate> running ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server would be a better advice ;)
13:53	<Gadi> that would produce the same outcome
13:53	he has done that already, wise guy
13:53	<pablo_> iv already done ltsp.update-sshkeys
13:53	<vagrantc> sure doesn't hurt to run lts-update-sshkeys again
13:54	<ogra-classmate> whoops sorry
13:54	<pablo_> ive done it again but problem still there
13:54	<vagrantc> ok. good.
13:54	that at least rules out doubt, then. :)
13:54	<Gadi> my money's on no ltspfs installed server side
13:55	pablo_: do this on the server; dpkg -l ltspfs
13:55	<vagrantc> Gadi: does that actually cause login to fail, though ?
13:55	<Gadi> indeed
13:55	* vagrantc hasn't seen that
13:55	<Gadi> ssh will call ltspfsmounter
13:55	<ogra-classmate> Gadi: are you sure he doesnt have sabayon installed?
13:55	<Gadi> which does not exist
13:56	<vagrantc> ogra-classmate: we are sure he does have sabayon installed ... why ?
13:56	<Gadi> he does have sabayon installed
13:56	<ogra-classmate> that wouldnt let anyone in until you add every user to a profile
13:56	its a well known design bug of sabayon
13:56	* ogra-classmate just got dinner
13:56	<ogra-classmate> bbl
13:57	* Gadi worries about his bet...
13:57	<Gadi> :)
13:57	* vagrantc needs to get dinner
13:57	<vagrantc> the cleaning folks threw out some of my food :(
13:58	<pablo_> Gadi: i did dpkg -l ltsps and seems not to be installed. i opened synaptic searched for ltspfs and. i see its not installed
13:59	<Gadi> ah, try installing it and then log in on the client
13:59	<pablo_> but this calls my atention cause i followed the ltsp doc (ubuntu quick start) to install ltsp5 (maybe that was missing there?)
13:59	* Gadi may win his bet after all
13:59	<Gadi> pablo_: could be - I think the change to enable local devices by default was a last minute thing
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14:13	<pablo_> Gadi: well it didnt work :(
14:14	i installed ltspfs rebooted a client and again same problem
14:14	<Gadi> in sabayon, are all of your users added to a profile?
14:14	<pablo_> yes they are
14:14	<Gadi> hmm... try editing lts.conf and disabling sound and local devices
14:15	<pablo_> wait wait..!! not all users where added to the sabayon profile
14:15	let me test again
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14:22	<pablo_> well all users in belonging to the sabayon profile but the problema ramains
14:22	the only errors i see in /var/log/ldm.log fron the clients
14:23	are some font paths not found
14:23	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
14:23	<pablo_> and a gtk waring tahs says no support for gnome
14:23	then continues
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14:24	<pablo_> and last 2 errors are related with fonts but i dont see a critical error that causes the problem. maybe im missing something
14:24	ill tri disabling suond and local devs from lts.conf
14:25	apart from that.. why does ltsp5 takes so longo to load in the terminals? 4.2 was much much faster in terms of speed
14:26	<Gadi> pablo_: indeed - that is the source of current development efforts
14:26	ltsp4 was built from ground up
14:26	ltsp5 is built from sky down, as it were
14:26	;)
14:27	<pablo_> Gadi: ok tanks for the explanation :)
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14:33	<pablo_> well now i seted localdev=false and sound=false in lts.conf but problem remains there :( anythign else should i try?
14:35	im seriouly thinking of installing ltsp 4.2 (it wqas so much faster!)
14:36	<Gadi> and you have no errors in ~/.xsession-errors?
14:36	or /var/log/auth.log on the server?
14:37	eurialo_ has quit IRC
14:37	* jammcq has to head to a family party. Only problem is, no beef and no beer at this party. kinda hard to call it a party, eh?
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14:47	<ltsppbot> "pablo_" pasted ".xsession-errors" (12 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/147
14:47	<pablo_> could you look at it to see if there is something really wrong?
14:50	eurialo_ has joined #ltsp
14:51	<ltsppbot> "pablo_" pasted "tail -f /var/log/auth.log" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/148
14:53	<Gadi> OSError: [Errno 2] No existe el fichero ó directorio: '/home/draco2/.gnome2/share'
14:53	that looks like the error
14:54	seems like a sabayon error
14:55	like it didn't properly create the user's .gnome2 directory
14:55	try either: not using sabayon OR repush out the sabayon profiles for the users
14:56	<pablo_> Gadi: ok maybe it has to do wiht sabayon but 2 questions the fact that ive never loged in as these problematic usershas anything to do?
14:57	<Gadi> not sure
14:57	<pablo_> now i tried to log in the terminals wjth a user that has nothing to do wiht sabayon profiles
14:57	and i have the same problem so it doesn t appears to be sabayon related no?
14:58	<Gadi> according to ogra, if you have sabayon installed, all users must belong to a sabayon profile
14:58	that it is a bug with sabayon
14:58	so, you should associate all users with a profile
14:58	then, push the profiles out again
14:59	<pablo_> but ALL system users? including this im using now? or only the ones that are going to be used in the terminal?
14:59	terminals?
14:59	<Gadi> all users
15:00	<pablo_> ok ill try it now
15:00	<Gadi> (not system users like "gdm", obviously)
15:00	but, all regular users on the system
15:00	<pablo_> sure :)
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15:09	<pablo_> ok i tried it but didnt work. how can i uninstall ltsp5 and install ltsp4.2? or they can live together?
15:10	<vagrantc> pablo_: well, you could just try to configure XDMCP, since that's what you'd get with ltsp4.2 anyways
15:11	pablo_: set SCREEN_07=startx in lts.conf, and install gdm or kdm or xdm on your server ...
15:11	!grayscreen
15:11	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: Error: "grayscreen" is not a valid command.
15:11	<pablo_> vagrantc: dpkg-reconfigure XDMCP?
15:11	<vagrantc> !greyscreen
15:11	<ltspbot`> vagrantc: "greyscreen" is No login, and only a grey screen? See http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Troubleshooting-GrayScreen
15:11	<vagrantc> pablo_: there's instructions there
15:11	<Gadi> pablo_: if it is a problem with sabayon, prolly ltsp 4.2 would fail, too
15:12	<vagrantc> oh.
15:12	<Gadi> perhaps try first without sabayon?
15:12	<vagrantc> right.
15:12	<Gadi> vagrantc: find dinner?
15:12	fernando1 has quit IRC
15:13	<vagrantc> Gadi: yeah. though half of my food stash disappeared on me.
15:13	<pablo_> i did it. i tried to login in a terminal with a user not related to sabayon profiles (before setting all users to use sabayon profiel) but didnt work
15:14	<Gadi> pablo_: sabayon messes with the users' accounts, as well as /etc/skel, I think
15:14	which means it affects all your users
15:14	<vagrantc> awesome.
15:15	<Gadi> try blowing away the user's .gnome, .gnome2, .gconf, and .gconfd directories
15:15	and log in
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15:16	<Gadi> I use to many idioms - what I mean is: rm -rf ~/.gconf ~/.gcnofd ~/.gnome ~/.gnome2
15:17	* vagrantc speaks shell semi-fluently
15:21	<sbalneav> rm -rf ${ALL_GNOMES_CONF_FILES}
15:22	eurialo has joined #ltsp
15:22	<sbalneav> Just make sure you don't have export ALL_GNOMES_CONF_FILES="*" defined anywhere :)
15:23	<eurialo> hi, i follow this howto http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto, i add the users to fuse group.
15:24	How can i make local device work?
15:24	<vagrantc> eurialo: dpkg -l ltspfs ; dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 ltspfsd
15:25	eurialo:
15:25	actually
15:25	eurialo: dpkg -l ltsp* ; dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 ltsp*
15:27	<eurialo> the output on server
15:27	pn ltsp-client-bu <non definita> (descrizione non disponibile)
15:27	ii ltsp-server 0.99debian12 Basic LTSP server environment
15:27	ii ltsp-server-st 0.99debian12 Complete LTSP server environment
15:27	un ltsp-utils <non definita> (descrizione non disponibile)
15:27	ii ltspfs 0.4.3+debian2 Fuse based remote filesystem for LTSP thin c
15:28	on client chroot
15:28	ii ltsp-client 0.99debian12 LTSP client environment
15:28	un ltsp-utils <non definita> (descrizione non disponibile)
15:28	ii ltspfsd 0.4.3+debian2 Fuse based remote filesystem daemon for LTSP
15:28	<vagrantc> ok
15:28	grep LOCALDEV /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
15:28	<eurialo> i have localdev=true
15:28	<vagrantc> LOCALDEV=true ?
15:29	case matters.
15:29	well, for the variable name.
15:29	not for the "true" bit.
15:33	eurialo: so ... ?
15:34	<eurialo> i'm going to reboot the client
15:36	thi is my lts.conf
15:36	[Default]
15:36	LOCALDEV=True
15:36	SOUND=True
15:36	but nothing change
15:37	localdevice not work
15:38	<vagrantc> eurialo: getent group fuse
15:39	<eurialo> the client is in fuse group
15:40	<vagrantc> "client" ?
15:40	dudleif has joined #ltsp
15:40	<eurialo> the user sorry
15:40	:)
15:40	<vagrantc> ok.
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15:42	<vagrantc> eurialo: what kind of device is it?
15:43	<eurialo> i try with floppy and cd too
15:43	<vagrantc> built-in floppy? built-in cd ?
15:43	i.e. not USB or something
15:44	having never tested the floppy/cdrom support, i'm a little weak at troubleshooting it ...
15:44	sbalneav: ... ?
15:45	<sbalneav> boo
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15:45	<eurialo> yes, they are built-in
15:45	<vagrantc> sbalneav: static devices with ltspfs ... i'm a little unfamiliar with how it's supposed to work
15:46	<eurialo> i can try with a pendrive
15:46	<sbalneav> There's supposed to be a daemon that re-adds them all the time.
15:46	hmmm
15:46	<vagrantc> eurialo: that would be good.
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15:48	<sbalneav> Try a pendrive for now, see if that works.
15:49	<eurialo> yes, it works
15:49	<vagrantc> well, at least we know it's not completely broken.
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15:50	<Gadi> have you rebooted the client since you fixed things?
15:51	<eurialo> yes, i do it again
15:51	sound also not work
15:51	<vagrantc> sound is anoher issue
15:52	<eurialo> ok
15:52	<vagrantc> eurialo: as the logged in user, echo $ESPEAKER
15:53	<sbalneav> What I need to do is come up with a localdev troubleshooting page for ltsp5
15:53	<vagrantc> sbalneav: yes, please. :)
15:55	<Gadi> so, who was the genius who decided to make a linux command called ipconfig? ;)
15:56	<eurialo> echo $ESPEAKER:
15:56	10.0.0.101:16001
15:56	<str4nd> lo.o.o.lol:l6ool
15:56	nvm ->
15:58	<vagrantc> eurialo: so ... try running a sound program from the commandline with esddsp or something
15:58	i.e. esddsp xmms
15:58	see if that works
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16:12	<eurialo> it says failed to open mixer device (/dev/mixer)
16:13	sorry for long time but client is in an other room
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16:27	<eurialo> nothing to do, sound doesen't work
16:29	<Gadi> eurialo: does the client have a PCI soundcard or an ISA?
16:30	<eurialo> on board sound card
16:30	<Gadi> what type of client is it?
16:30	<eurialo> but it work with edubuntu 7.4
16:31	<Gadi> edubuntu LTSP?
16:31	<eurialo> (what type of client is it?)
16:31	hardware?
16:32	<Gadi> yes
16:33	listen, here are the things to check:
16:33	<eurialo> athlon xp 2400, 512mb, abit motherboard
16:34	<Gadi> 1. The driver was actually loaded on the client (if it worked with edubuntu, chances are that's fine)
16:34	2. You can go to System > Preferences > Sound and have output set to "Auto" and do a test
16:35	(Sound Playback, that is)
16:35	if you can do #2, then sound works fine in general, and may not work for the particular application you tried
16:36	if you cannot do #2, then there is some incorrect setting that we need to find
16:36	note: for sound to work, the application needs to be able to use "esd" or "PulseAduio"
16:37	some applications are not capable of this (like Java) because they write directly to the sound device
16:37	most are fine
16:45	<eurialo> i can do #2
16:45	<Gadi> then, your sound is fine
16:46	what application was not playing sound?
16:46	<eurialo> but the sound icon say me there is no device
16:46	:?
16:46	<Gadi> that used to mean that you had no soundcard in the server ;)
16:47	i think ogra fixed that in Ubuntu, tho
16:47	to actually control the client's audio
16:47	not sure
16:47	<eurialo> no problem, i remove the icon
16:47	:)
16:47	<Gadi> :)
16:48	<eurialo> but xmms, totem, rhythmbox dont work
16:48	i will try to reboot server
16:48	<Gadi> did you have Sound Playback set to auto?
16:48	or did you have to change it from something else?
16:49	<eurialo> i have no auto option
16:49	<Gadi> if you had to change it, try logging out and logging back in
16:49	what?
16:49	Autodetect
16:49	sorry
16:49	<eurialo> no
16:49	<Gadi> what? no autodetect?
16:49	what distribution?
16:50	<eurialo> debian lenny
16:50	<Gadi> (I thought you said you did #2 and it worked)
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16:50	<Gadi> whats debian lenny?
16:51	<eurialo> debian etch+1
16:51	<Gadi> ah
16:51	<eurialo> debian testing
16:51	<Gadi> hmm
16:51	what did you set sound playback to?
16:51	<eurialo> wait, i send you a screenshot
16:57	did you give it?
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16:58	<Gadi> no
16:59	just tell me
16:59	is it set to esd or pulseaudio?
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17:06	<eurialo> http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=schermataoi7.png
17:08	@Gadi
17:09	<Gadi> ah, open a terminal window and type: gstreamer-properties
17:09	see what that is set to
17:11	* Gadi has to head home
17:11	<Gadi> good luck, eurialo
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21:16	<kaos01> hi, i get sshd[1061]: error: Couldn't create pid file "/etc/ssh/sshd.pid": Read-only file system in /var/log/messages
21:16	shouldnt it be putting pid in tmp or somethign the like
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