IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 December 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:09 | <dkostousov> Hi.
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| 01:19 | <Appiah> heya
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| 02:10 | <tarzeau> my ltsp client says:
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| 02:11 | /: waiting for 192.33.97.211:/opt/ltsp/i386.karmic
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| 02:11 | /tmp: waiting for (null)
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| 02:11 | what's wrong?
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| 02:11 | i can mount this export....
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| 02:52 | <pts> I've been studying and trying out LTSP for over a week now, so we can get a better setup of the existing LTSP server at the school I work. But there are two things we're having trouble understanding. First, lts.conf i /var/lib... doesnt seem to be read, and second, when opening a terminal on the client and browse the FS, the client is seeing the server root, and not the jail. Can anyone give us a pointer to where to look for information abo
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| 02:52 | ut these issues?
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| 02:53 | we're using Ubuntu 9.10
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| 02:54 | <Appiah> second is not a issue
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| 02:54 | thats how it is
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| 02:54 | the first issue with lts.conf , pastebin it and let us see whats not working
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| 02:59 | <pts> ok, so it's just a matter of disabling nautilus, terminal alt+F2 etc on the clients, so the users cant see more than we want. I'll be posting the lts.conf soon
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| 03:01 | http://www.pastebin.org/63007
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| 03:01 | <Appiah> yupp its a general linux server configuration there
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| 03:02 | [example] ?
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| 03:02 | <pts> we're just testing, so for now that name is not so important :)
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| 03:02 | <Appiah> should say default
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| 03:03 | then it will affect all clients
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| 03:03 | either you type default or a mac address
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| 03:06 | <pts> Thanks mate :) That did the trick. Cant belive it was so easy and obvious
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| 03:16 | <Appiah> :)
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| 04:34 | <pts> I'm a bit stuck again here. I want to change the preferences entries in LDM, but I cant seem to find out how/where to do that. Any suggesions?
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| 06:40 | cheesyking has joined #LTSP | |
| 06:41 | <cheesyking> Hi all, got a bit of a problem with an ubuntu 9.10 ltsp install
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| 06:42 | at random some of my clients won't boot into the gui, they just sit there at the chroot text login
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| 06:42 | any suggestions
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| 06:42 | <Appiah> check the xorg log
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| 06:43 | it will tell why the LDM would not launch
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| 06:43 | <cheesyking> where the x log gone? donesn't seem to be in /var/log
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| 06:44 | <Appiah> /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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| 06:44 | on the thin client
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| 06:45 | <cheesyking> right...
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| 06:46 | I've got xorg.7.log on a client that did start LDM but nothing on a client that didn't start it
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| 06:46 | <Appiah> hmm =/
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| 06:46 | <cheesyking> indeed
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| 06:46 | <Appiah> are they all the same modell?
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| 06:46 | jetienne_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 06:46 | <cheesyking> yep, all exactly the same hardware
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| 06:46 | <jetienne_> q. what is the kernel version provided by ubuntu ltsp ?
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| 06:47 | <Appiah> wouldnt that the current kernel?
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| 06:47 | <cheesyking> 2.6.31-14-generic
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| 06:48 | <jetienne_> cheesyking: thanks
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| 06:48 | <cheesyking> the odd thing is that if I hit reset enough times it will eventually start
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| 06:49 | <alkisg> jetienne_: on my Karmic I have 2.6.31-16.53
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| 06:50 | <jetienne_> alkisg: do you experience kernel panic issue ?
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> No
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| 06:50 | <jetienne_> alkisg: linked to nbd
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| 06:50 | alkisg: ok thanks
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| 06:50 | <cheesyking> on a client where LDM didn't start I get "nc: invalid option --'f'" nc -h for help
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> cheesyking: if it's a video problem, you can verify/work around it by put it XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf
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| 06:50 | <cheesyking> when I ctrl+alt f7
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| 06:51 | just trying that now... thanks
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> There's a bug report for the nc -f somewhere on launchpad afaik
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| 06:59 | <cheesyking> OK XSERVER=vesa didn't help, I'm just going to have a look on launchpad for the nc-f bug
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| 07:34 | <ehrenpr> anyone around who can help me with setting up italk, I keep getting service not running or existing keys are broken.
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| 07:34 | italc
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| 07:35 | <Appiah> are you use the ppa?
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| 07:36 | <ehrenpr> I have tried both on the server and in chroot, and both give me the same responce when tring to access the master from a thin client, however I can when I am working directly on the server
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| 07:36 | what is ppa?
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| 07:37 | <Appiah> What dist are you running?
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| 07:37 | <ehrenpr> edubuntu karmic
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| 07:38 | <Appiah> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-italc-devel/+archive/ppa
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| 07:38 | they might work better
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: is the user on the thin client in the admin group?
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| 07:40 | <ehrenpr> yes.
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| 07:41 | I can log in with the same account directly on the server. But I cant when I am on my thin client machine, which is what I normally have access to.
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> I don't get it, please describe it with more words
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| 07:42 | Don't logon with the same account on both server+thin client at the same time.
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| 07:42 | <ehrenpr> I dont I, Log outthen go to the other machine.
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| 07:43 | <alkisg> OK, so when you're logged on on the server as user "ehrenpr", you can see/control the client "someotheruser" on the thin client,
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| 07:43 | but you cannot do it if you logon as "ehrenpr" from the thin client?
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| 07:43 | <ehrenpr> Currently I have itlac installed on the server using sudo aptitude install libitalc italc-client italc-master
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| 07:43 | yes
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| 07:43 | <scottmaccal> Morning all.
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> Good morning. ehrenpr, how are you testing now? with 2 thin clients, sitting on one of them?
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| 07:45 | <ehrenpr> good morning.. Sorry I had to go last night and was already running late.
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| 07:45 | I am currently sitting in front of the server.
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| 07:46 | I have a client right next to me not logged on
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| 07:47 | <alkisg> You can't see not-logged-on clients when you install italc *only* on the server
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| 07:47 | <ehrenpr> I did however just test it from logging on a client machine with no luck
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| 07:48 | my problem isnt not seeing clients. its opening the master interface. I can control the clients when I am on the server
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: Logon with some user on the thin client, give this command, and upload it to pastebin: avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp
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| 07:51 | <ehrenpr> http://pastebin.com/m7ad75711
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| 07:53 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: why does ltsp26 have 2 IPs?
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| 07:53 | Ah, sorry, it's on the server
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| 07:54 | <ehrenpr> I have it setup in a nat configuration
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> So now if you run italc-launcher from ltsp26, what do you see?
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| 07:56 | <ehrenpr> No authentication keys were found or your old one are broken. please create a new pair using ica
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> What italc version are you running? dpkg -l italc-master
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| 07:57 | <ehrenpr> 1:1.0.9.1-0ubu
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| 07:57 | <alkisg> dpkg -l italc-master|grep ^ii
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| 07:58 | <ehrenpr> ii italc-master 1:1.0.9.1-0ubuntu16
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| 07:58 | <alkisg> Again from the client, run: id
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| 07:58 | <_UsUrPeR__> gadi: ping?
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| 07:59 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: so that we can see on which groups you're in
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| 07:59 | <ehrenpr> what do you want me to do on the client
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| 07:59 | <alkisg> id
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| 08:00 | <alkisg> Just run this command ^^^
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| 08:00 | and paste the output here.
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| 08:00 | <ehrenpr> gid=1001(artroom) groups(artroom1)
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| 08:00 | <alkisg> Then you're not on the admin group
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| 08:00 | <_SKiTZO> i want to set up a ltsp solution for a customer who need basic office machines but cant afford hardware
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| 08:00 | <alkisg> (03:39:56 μμ) alkisg: ehrenpr: is the user on the thin client in the admin group?
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| 08:00 | (03:40:47 μμ) ehrenpr: yes.
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| 08:01 | <_SKiTZO> are there any thin clients that are recommended?
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| 08:01 | for use with ltsp i mean?
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| 08:01 | <ehrenpr> I am logged onto the client as a student cause I am logged on to the server as my admin user
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: well then logon the other way around
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| 08:01 | and try again
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| 08:01 | <ehrenpr> ok
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| 08:02 | <_UsUrPeR__> _SKiTZO: repurposed machines are always a great place to start
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| 08:04 | <_SKiTZO> we have some but not enough
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| 08:04 | <ehrenpr> alright now its working..I have to check it on my main pc. Its running the client as a VM on a win 7 machine
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| 08:14 | <cheesyking> OK I havn't found anything on launchpad regarding my problems with LDM / X not starting... is there a way to force a client machine to try to restart these so I can watch what's happening?
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| 08:16 | <_SKiTZO> arnt there any thin clients recommended for LTSP ?
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| 08:16 | <Appiah> well
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| 08:16 | ...
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| 08:17 | anything with 128ram is about ok I think
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| 08:17 | less then that , some problems can occur
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| 08:18 | <_SKiTZO> ok. so i must be able to install linux on it and it needs 128mb ram?
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| 08:18 | <Appiah> no
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| 08:18 | you dont need to install anything on the thin clients
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| 08:18 | ltsp uses pxe boot
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| 08:19 | <_SKiTZO> ok
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| 08:19 | but the thin client must be some x86 copatible cpu then
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| 08:19 | <Appiah> 128 or more is recommended , if you are planning on localapps you would need maybe 512(?!)
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| 08:19 | <_SKiTZO> hehe
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| 08:19 | <Appiah> yes x86 or x86-64
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| 08:20 | <_SKiTZO> how is it made? does it autoconfigure xorg and run some vnc or something like that?
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| 08:20 | <cheesyking> I thought you could use different architectures if you wanted
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| 08:21 | <Appiah> I myself only built x86 and x86-64
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| 08:21 | never tried anything else
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| 08:21 | there is ltsp-build-client --arch=<archehere>
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| 08:21 | <_SKiTZO> ok
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| 08:25 | <Appiah> X today is pretty much autoconfiguring itself
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| 08:26 | and that's what linux dists use today. If you need to force some X setting it can be done in a file called lts.conf
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| 08:26 | you can define if all or just some clients should use does settings
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| 08:26 | LTSP uses a component called LDM to login to servers, it does not use XDMCP or VNC
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| 08:27 | hope that answers your questions _SKiTZO
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| 08:35 | <_SKiTZO> thanks it does
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| 08:54 | <dmarkey_> so what improvements is there around the flash problem
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| 08:54 | <sbalneav> !flash
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| 08:54 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "flash" :: Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
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| 08:55 | <cheesyking> OK I've fixed my problem with LDM not always starting!!! I removed the splash keyword from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 08:55 | <sbalneav> I've been trying to figure out/play with the idea of turning the HQTube greasemonkey script into a plugin that can be globally appplied.
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| 08:55 | As well, I've had some success with gnash
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| 08:55 | <dmarkey_> wow, hqtube.com was defo not what i wanted
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| 08:56 | <cheesyking> Anyone got any ideas why that should have worked? I was just trying to see what was happening at bootup, I didn't expect it to actually fix the problem!
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| 08:56 | <sbalneav> Yeah, well the link was in my post
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| 08:56 | <dmarkey_> i'll save that other one for later
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| 08:57 | <sbalneav> cheesyking: Sometimes bootsplash can cause problems on machines with buggy bios/video.
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| 08:57 | so by removing it, you fixed the problem.
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| 08:57 | Searching for/applying bios updates for your machine may help.
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| 08:58 | <cheesyking> cool, well they are foxconn!
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| 08:58 | <cheesyking> guess I should have coughed up for proper intel boards
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| 08:59 | <sbalneav> dmarkey_: I'd like to figure out how to fix the HQtube gm script to work on ALL .flv movies from any site, as opposed to just youtube
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| 08:59 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hey all
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| 08:59 | <ehrenpr> alkisg you still here?
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: yup
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| 08:59 | <sbalneav> unfortunately, since it's a greasemonkey script, it has to be installed individually on each users config, since greasemonkey doesn't support a "/usr/share/scripts" area
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| 09:00 | hence my other desire for making it a plugin.
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| 09:00 | <alkisg> sbalneav: c'mon... you know how these things are done: you first have to patch greasemonkey to accept globally installed scripts :D
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| 09:00 | <ehrenpr> sorry, my first class showed up. I determined that the cause of my problem was my VM connection that I was using on my teacher pc. I Think I have to set up networking diffrent.
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| 09:01 | <ehrenpr> thanks for all of your help.... I think I can figure that out.
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| 09:01 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Thought about that too.
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| 09:01 | <alkisg> ehrenpr: np, if you can't figure it out ask again :)
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| 09:02 | <sbalneav> might be easier. I talked to the GM upstream people, but they didn't seem to interested in the idea. "Might be a nice feature, but not an area we're interested in" was the response.
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| 09:02 | <dmarkey_> sbalneav: so, this plays flv through embedded mplayer?
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| 09:02 | <sbalneav> dmarkey_: yes.
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| 09:02 | <dmarkey_> but.. it still goes pretty raw over the network
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| 09:02 | <alkisg> Grhm... so they'd accept such a patch, or not?
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| 09:03 | <sbalneav> From some tests I've done: 5 people watching youtube video on ltsp terminals with flash = 2.3 loadavg, and very jerky
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| 09:03 | <alkisg> dmarkey_: well it doesn't eat CPU, that's a huge plus. And, xv needs less bandwidth than whatever flash uses.
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| 09:03 | <sbalneav> 5 people watching video with HQtube plugin = 0.4 loadavg, and smooth
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| 09:03 | <dmarkey_> sound in sync?
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| 09:04 | <sbalneav> yes
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| 09:04 | perfect sound.
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| 09:04 | <dmarkey_> they way sun ray does it is nice
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| 09:04 | <alkisg> I don't think most thin clients would be able to decode flash video
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| 09:04 | <sbalneav> Not familiar with them.
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| 09:04 | <dmarkey_> sorry, actually thats for mp4 played through media player
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| 09:05 | it uses some kind of a filter to stream the mp4 to the thin client, and it decodes it
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| 09:05 | <sbalneav> dmarkey_: localapps, in other words.
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> If one has good enough clients to decode flash video, he should use localapps
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| 09:05 | <sbalneav> like what we do.
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| 09:06 | <dmarkey_> not really, you see sunrays dont actually have on OS as such
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| 09:06 | they have like 16Mb firmware
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| 09:06 | <sbalneav> 16mb firmware = an os
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| 09:06 | just not an os you know about :)
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| 09:07 | <dmarkey_> so with localapps, if i click an MP4 file on my desktop, what happens
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| 09:07 | <sbalneav> If you have totem loaded as a localapp, totem pulls down the mp4, and decodes it locally
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| 09:08 | <dmarkey_> totem, so i need half of gnome installed?
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| 09:08 | in the chroot
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| 09:08 | <sbalneav> people are installing firefox + flash + java as localapps,, and solving the problem that way.
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| 09:08 | dmarkey_: if you want to use totem, yeah.
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| 09:08 | <dmarkey_> is vlc an option
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| 09:09 | <sbalneav> Why don't you try it and let us know?
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| 09:09 | I can't see why it wouldn't be.
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| 09:09 | <johnny> suprised tehre isn't a less gnomey gstraemer player then..
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| 09:09 | <_USUrPeR_> shawnp0wers: morning
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| 09:10 | <dmarkey_> get me get the workflow, i click mp4 on my desktop, what gets executed ltsp-local-open file.avi, and that copies the file to the thin client and spawns the local player?
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| 09:10 | let*
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| 09:11 | <sbalneav> I don't thing anyone's tried this for vlc or totem
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| 09:11 | but I know people use this for firefox + flash
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| 09:11 | and in that case, the .flv streams down to the client, and then it's decoded by flash on the client.
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| 09:12 | so no raw video frames go across the network, just the compressed flv
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| 09:12 | <dmarkey_> sure
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| 09:13 | <sbalneav> But, of course, this assumes you have powerful enough clients to run flash + firefox
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| 09:13 | for those who DONT, or don't want to run localapps (like me) then the HQtube plugin begins to look attractive.
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| 09:13 | <dmarkey_> and.. you end up with a disjoined session.
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> One could argue that "you get the best of both worlds" :P :D
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| 09:15 | <dmarkey_> couldnt the plugin simply captures the flv data coming into the plugin, streams that to the client and something plays it on the client side
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| 09:15 | capture*
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| 09:16 | <johnny> dmarkey_, it seems that youtube might convert catalog to html5 overtime.. they already started iwth some..
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| 09:17 | <sbalneav> dmarkey_: Sure, you can do anything you want.... so long as you program it to do so.
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| 09:17 | dmarkey_: What languaged do you know? Want to work on this with me?
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| 09:17 | <dmarkey_> Python
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| 09:17 | :)
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| 09:18 | <sbalneav> We'll need C for this probably, since we need some kind of communications mechanism between thin client and the plugin on firefox
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| 09:18 | How's your C?
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| 09:19 | <dmarkey_> ive done some samba work, but im a bit rusty
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| 09:20 | will we need to create a browser plugin from scratch
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| 09:20 | <sbalneav> Yup, no simple task.
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| 09:20 | Or, we could work on a patch for hqtube for global scripts, which is in javascript.
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| 09:21 | <dmarkey_> well, for youtube, we could, based on the URL spawn the client based on that?
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| 09:22 | <sbalneav> The point to all of this is: it's a complex problem, caused by the internet basically making a propriatary technology become a "standard" for how a lot of things are done.
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| 09:22 | dmarkey_: depends on if we get passed a url or just a stream.
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| 09:23 | <dmarkey_> it is possible, to spawn flash player on its own
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| 09:23 | well, the plugin
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> Spawn the plugin outside of firefox? That won't be pretty..
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| 09:24 | <sbalneav> I'm not aware that it is, the flashplugin-nonfree just downloads an .so, no executable.
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| 09:24 | so you'd have to write some kind of wrapper for it.
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| 09:25 | <dmarkey_> is hqtube broke? its telling me its out of date
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| 09:27 | <sbalneav> There's a patch in the comments section of the webpage
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| 09:32 | <dmarkey_> nice.. not much in the way of video control :)
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| 09:39 | <johnny> xembed..
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| 09:40 | <dmarkey_> I suppose local-apps wouldbe be so bad, if they could have their home directory
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> ? the home directory is mounted with sshfs
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| 09:41 | <dmarkey_> oh really, god i'm way behind
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| 09:54 | <_SKiTZO> ok this is an akward question but are there any alternatives to ltsp that is "strictly server side" ?
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| 09:55 | i mean where there is no consept of "localaps"
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| 09:55 | that has a lower boot footprint
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| 09:55 | ?
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| 09:55 | Ahmuck_ has quit IRC | |
| 09:55 | <ogra> you mean booting in less than 64M ?
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| 09:55 | likely only if you build something yourself
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| 09:56 | <sbalneav> _SKiTZO: run just stock LTSP, turn off sound and localdevs
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| 09:56 | <_SKiTZO> ok
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| 09:56 | will that reduce the boot image size?
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| 09:56 | dro has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:56 | <ogra> the boot image need about 48M ... to use it smoothly you need 64M
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| 09:57 | (thats with the changes sbalneav mentioned)
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| 09:57 | <_SKiTZO> im thinking that a bare VNC client couldn't possible take more than 1mb max
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| 09:57 | ok
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| 09:57 | im not talking about memory footprint
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| 09:57 | <ogra> you forget the kernel and a minimal rootfsd
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| 09:57 | <_SKiTZO> im talkib about boot image footprint
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| 09:57 | <ogra> *rootfs
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| 09:57 | yes
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| 09:57 | <_SKiTZO> hm yes
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| 09:57 | <ogra> how would you execute vnc
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| 09:57 | <_SKiTZO> exactly
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| 09:57 | <sbalneav> What does it matter what the boot image size is?
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| 09:57 | <ogra> it needs a minimal system
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| 09:58 | <_SKiTZO> if its going accross the network then it matters
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| 09:58 | kernel + xorg + vnc?
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| 09:58 | <sbalneav> the whole thing doesn't go across the network
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| 09:58 | <_SKiTZO> isnt that it?
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| 09:58 | isnt it booting over gPXE?
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| 09:58 | <Appiah> vnc? what
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| 09:58 | <sbalneav> Yeah, just the kernel + initrd
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| 09:58 | <ogra> PXE, gPXE, etherboot, whatever you want
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| 09:58 | <_SKiTZO> yes
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| 09:58 | <ogra> but yes, only kernel and initrd
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| 09:59 | <sbalneav> after that it mounts a compressed filesystem via nbd
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| 09:59 | <_SKiTZO> so the boot image is kernel+initrd+xorg + busybox + vnc+ whatever
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| 09:59 | and that ads up top around 120mb or something?
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| 09:59 | <ogra> and indeed pulls the single binaries into ram
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| 09:59 | like xorg
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| 09:59 | <sbalneav> I'd say, roughly, about 60 someodd megabytes comes across the network, for an average boot.
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| 09:59 | <_SKiTZO> ah that made sense
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| 10:00 | <ogra> i dont think its more than 30M thats actually go over the net when you boot
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| 10:00 | <sbalneav> last time I measured
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| 10:00 | <ogra> 60 ?
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| 10:00 | wow
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| 10:00 | <sbalneav> I think
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| 10:00 | that's not that bad.
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| 10:00 | <_SKiTZO> it isnt
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| 10:00 | someone told me 120
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| 10:00 | <ogra> yeah, i would just have guessed less :)
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| 10:00 | <_SKiTZO> well i can live with 30
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| 10:00 | :)
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| 10:01 | <ogra> _SKiTZO, 120 is the size of the server side image
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| 10:01 | <_SKiTZO> ah hehe
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| 10:01 | <ogra> but that only gets mounted
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| 10:01 | not pushed through the net
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| 10:01 | <_SKiTZO> ah
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| 10:01 | i get it
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| 10:01 | <ogra> and its also compressed
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| 10:01 | <_SKiTZO> i like the architecture
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| 10:01 | <ogra> :)
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| 10:02 | <_SKiTZO> then when it boots it will survive in 64mb mem
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| 10:02 | without swapping?
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| 10:02 | on the client that is
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| 10:02 | <sbalneav> I've boooted clients in 64 meg
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| 10:02 | <_SKiTZO> if i dont do any localapps
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| 10:02 | <sbalneav> 1024x768
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| 10:03 | <ogra> i have *booted* clients in 32M
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| 10:03 | <_SKiTZO> and most of that mem is due to xorg right?
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| 10:03 | <ogra> same resolution
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| 10:03 | its just no fun to use them :)
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| 10:03 | <_SKiTZO> so if i replaced xorg with some hacked fbdev vnc
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| 10:04 | i would save bunches of mem :P
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| 10:04 | and then i can go on ebay and buy el-cheapo thinclients
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| 10:04 | yay!
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| 10:04 | <ogra> kernel and initrd need 32M at least ...
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| 10:04 | the prob you run itno is that apps want to use the X memory for pixmap caching
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| 10:05 | thats what bites you in the end
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| 10:05 | <_SKiTZO> so the server needs gigs and gigs of mem for many clients?
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| 10:05 | <ogra> the client should have some ram too
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| 10:05 | <sbalneav> I run 8 gigs of ram for about 40 clients on one machine.
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| 10:05 | <ogra> X runs on the client
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| 10:06 | <dmarkey_> sbalneav: is there a way to make the video full screen, or seek
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| 10:06 | <ogra> so the pixmap cache is used on your client
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| 10:06 | <_SKiTZO> yes but i would like to run X on the server and use plain vnc
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| 10:06 | isnt that possible?
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| 10:06 | <ogra> will be stuttering i guess
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| 10:06 | but surely its possible
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| 10:07 | <sbalneav> dmarkey_: how I get fullscreen on a thin client is, I run totem, drop down the sidebar and select youtube, search for video from there.
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| 10:07 | <_SKiTZO> ill definitely try out this. i have a 128mb laptop lying around for testing
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| 10:07 | :) thanks for the input
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| 10:08 | <ogra> thats surely enough for a normal LTSP setup with sound and localdevs
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| 10:08 | <sbalneav> _SKiTZO: keep in mind, vnc places a higher processing load on the server AND on the client.
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| 10:08 | <dmarkey_> oh right, but its not possible from hqtube
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| 10:08 | <ogra> (not for local-apps though)
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| 10:08 | <sbalneav> dmarkey_: I think you can resize the "window"
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| 10:08 | so "bigger" but not fullscreen.
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| 10:09 | <_SKiTZO> i imagine vnc will cut down on bandwidt
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| 10:09 | so if bandwidth is the bottlenec then vnc is a good option
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| 10:09 | hm
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| 10:10 | <dmarkey_> the mplayer plugin actually spawns mplayer with the URL of the FLV, all we need to do is make that happen on the client side
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| 10:10 | <sbalneav> "all we need to do"
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| 10:10 | nubae_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:10 | <dmarkey_> :)
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| 10:11 | * sbalneav anxiously awaits reams of wonderful code from dmarkey_ | |
| 10:11 | <ogra> _SKiTZO, i doubt vnc cuts down much on bandwith ... but try yourself :)
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| 10:12 | <dmarkey_> http://pastebin.com/m14c55983
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| 10:13 | see -wid option for mplayer
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| 10:13 | i wonder if we could have a server side firefox, but imbed using a client side mplayer
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| 10:13 | embed*
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> dmarkey_: when you scroll the window, the player also scrolls. They can't be on different machines.
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| 10:14 | (unless you write a new plugin especially for that)
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| 10:15 | <dmarkey_> they could be using some X based magic for that, which we can do
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| 10:15 | the X server is the common piece
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| 10:16 | <alkisg> The plugin needs to be in the same address space as the browser, to communicate with it
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| 10:16 | <ogra> did you look at the mythbuntu plugins we have in the ubuntu package ?
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| 10:16 | i think that does similar stuff with remote viewers
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| 10:20 | <dmarkey_> im not even sure how this is working, i dont seem to have an mplayer mozilla plugin installed
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| 10:20 | <sbalneav> "some X based magic" I'd expect :)
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| 10:21 | <dmarkey_> sbalneav: i knew it :)
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| 10:21 | <sbalneav> I think the hqtube plugin spawns the player as it's own process.
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| 10:22 | <dmarkey_> i cant see any reference to it in that script
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| 10:24 | mozplugger-helper is the parent process
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| 10:25 | <sbalneav> player.innerHTML
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| 10:25 | it's setting the mimetype
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| 10:25 | then mozplugger's doing the magic
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| 10:26 | <johnny> how do i find out what's causing load on a server without iotop :(
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| 10:26 | <alkisg> Disk load? And why not install iotop?
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| 10:27 | <johnny> too old kernel
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| 10:27 | whatever comes with latest centos 5.x
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| 10:28 | <dmarkey_> https://forum.fukt.bsnet.se/cgi-bin/man/man2html?7+mozplugger
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| 10:28 | i think we could harness this to make our own backend
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| 10:31 | which would actually spawn mplayer on the client side
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> That would only work for fast clients. If one has fast clients, why shouldn't he use localapps instead?
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| 10:36 | <johnny> uggh.. i really hope rhel6 comes out some day..
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| 10:37 | and then i still have to wait for cpanel to update for it..
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| 10:37 | :(
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| 10:37 | <dmarkey_> alkisg: mplayer decoding flash is alot less cpu cycles than flash player
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| 10:37 | <alkisg> Yes, but this already works with the plugin in that page, so?
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| 10:38 | <dmarkey_> on the server side?
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> and, if you install it as a localapp, on the client side
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| 10:39 | <nubae_> alkisg, ... wanna see something cool: www.nubae.com (google wave embedded straight into a website)
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| 10:40 | <alkisg> nubae! Yey! Long time no see... btw ltsp bot's down :D
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| 10:40 | <nubae_> open for all
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| 10:40 | oh he is...
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| 10:40 | let me run him again then
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| 10:41 | <dmarkey_> alkisg: its better to have as little as possible on the client, i certainly dont want a full browser
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| 10:42 | <alkisg> Why? If the client's fast enough to decode video, it would also take flash ads, games etc off the server
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| 10:42 | nubae__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:42 | <alkisg> nubae_: I'm not really sure what new google wave gives us, and to be honest I'm not eager to find out :)
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| 10:42 | <dmarkey_> sbalneav: what's your opinion
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| 10:43 | <nubae__> just collaboration
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| 10:43 | it allows u to plugin any app and any 2.0 appliance into a collaborative environment
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| 10:43 | thats whats coool about it
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| 10:44 | so if I wanted to add a gadget of which there are hundreds
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> What is it? A framework where I can put my plugins if I rewrite them?
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| 10:44 | <nubae__> I could and make it collaborative in a jiffy
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| 10:44 | nah... say u want a voice recording and then talking gadget right....
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| 10:44 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:44 | <alkisg> I'm not even sure what web 2.0 means - I think I'll wait for Web 3.11 :P :D
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| 10:45 | <nubae__> and u wanna make it avaiilable to x,y,.z
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| 10:45 | or to anyone
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| 10:45 | well just add the gaddget, participants
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| 10:45 | and voila
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| 10:45 | alexqwesa has quit IRC | |
| 10:45 | <nubae__> its just super super easy collaboration
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| 10:45 | and it works quite well
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| 10:45 | <alkisg> OK, but how does one add a new, non-existing gadget?
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| 10:45 | Google apps, libs etc?
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| 10:46 | shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:46 | <nubae__> yah any gadget at all
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| 10:46 | and u write ure own of course
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| 10:47 | <alkisg> So what's the difference from existing toolkits?
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| 10:47 | <nubae__> I'm making a health and fitness monitor based on lots of questions...
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| 10:47 | for my parents business
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| 10:47 | so itll tell u waht vitamins and minerals and crap to taake
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| 10:47 | differnce... ease of use
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| 10:48 | <nubae__> oh... and u can write in java, python, and other lingos too
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| 10:48 | I guess its just google opening their SDK up
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| 10:48 | <alkisg> and show that on the web?!
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| 10:49 | <nubae__> yep, everything web based
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> How compatible would python on a web page be?
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| 10:49 | <nubae__> that is the way we are all going I guess
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| 10:49 | python is great for the web
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> Well, when linux users have .net preinstalled, and windows users have python preinstalled, then I might take a look :)
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| 10:49 | <nubae__> there are some really powerful frameworks out there for it
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| 10:49 | like django
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| 10:50 | shawnp0wers has quit IRC | |
| 10:50 | <nubae__> well, u dont need that to run wave
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| 10:50 | Ahmuck has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:50 | <nubae__> just use the same account u had with gmail
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> I don't know... I've seen google trying a lot of stuff, but most of them are not succesful
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| 10:50 | <nubae__> u want an invite?
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> Nope
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| 10:50 | (thanks)
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| 10:50 | <nubae__> ) have lots of them
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| 10:51 | I dont mind giving them away at all... 22, nothing to do with them
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| 10:51 | <alkisg> Nah, I'd like my toolkits to be widely accepted *before* I invest in learning them
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| 10:53 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:53 | <dro> have any of you used wyse thin clients with ltsp?
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| 10:53 | <nubae__> hjmmmm looks like someone tried to hack the bot
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| 10:53 | thats why its down
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| 10:58 | <_SKiTZO> ok i installed ltsp and i booted a client
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| 10:58 | it worked first time
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| 10:58 | but i cant log on
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| 10:58 | where do i manage users?
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| 11:00 | ltsplogbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:00 | <nubae__> gah, ok
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| 11:00 | should be allright now till the next time
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| 11:01 | <johnny> _SKiTZO, where do you think you do?
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| 11:04 | <_SKiTZO> on dos
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| 11:04 | no seriously i have a user but i couldnt log in
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| 11:05 | wait
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| 11:05 | my bad :P
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| 11:05 | sorry for the fuzz im just excited that it worked without even not working first hehe
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| 11:14 | <_SKiTZO> hm. ok i have added a user on the server. buti can't log in as that user on the client. is there something i am missing?
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| 11:14 | i am on debian
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| 11:14 | <ogra> check your auth.log
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| 11:14 | and the users ~/.xsession-errors file
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| 11:16 | <_SKiTZO> ah :) well I thought it would depend on X and install those
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| 11:16 | <ogra> it needs a desktop server side indeed
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| 11:16 | <_SKiTZO> heh but i would have made it a dependancy, afterall it is a dependancy, hairy or not
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| 11:17 | <ogra> its not
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| 11:17 | you can use a telnet login on the client
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| 11:17 | and manage your cmdline database app on the server :)
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| 11:18 | <_SKiTZO> ah. that is exactly what i want to use ltsp for!
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| 11:19 | *installing x
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| 11:30 | <_SKiTZO> it worked. yay
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| 11:38 | <SDuensin> Hello all.
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| 12:08 | <_SKiTZO> ok i logged in as root
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| 12:09 | and the only thing that started was xterm
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| 12:09 | no windowmanager nothing
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| 12:09 | s i did apt-get install gnome
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| 12:09 | was that a good way to do it or should I have done it another way?
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| 12:10 | on the client that is
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| 12:15 | <johnny> on the client?
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| 12:16 | probably apt-get install gnome, unless they have a metapackage like ubuntu
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| 12:16 | <_SKiTZO> :)
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| 12:21 | <jhutchins_lt> I'm running ltsp on Debian Lenny (5.0.3). I've set a hostname in dhcpd.conf, but if I remove the hostname from the chroot /etc it gets set to "ltsp".
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| 12:21 | Is this a known bug?
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| 12:22 | <_SKiTZO> is it a bug at all?
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| 12:22 | i mean it needs a hostname
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| 12:22 | and ltsp sounds like a good default
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| 12:22 | ah sorry i misread
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| 12:23 | i just installed on debian lenny
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| 12:23 | and mine got its hostname from dhcp
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| 12:23 | sure you configured dhcp correctly?
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| 12:23 | rembered to restart the dhcp service etc?
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> jhutchins_lt: What do you mean "if I remove the hostname"? What happens if you don't remove it? Afaik, it's recreated upon each startup...
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| 12:24 | <jhutchins_lt> alkisg: I had a hostname file in /opt/.../etc - that set the hostname correctly, but it would be the same for all hosts. I'm trying to expand beyond my first workstation.
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| 12:25 | _SKiTZO: Perhaps I don't have dhcp configured correctly.
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| 12:26 | I see something that says I need to have use-host-decl-names on; in dhcpd.conf...
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| 12:27 | Ah, or "option hostname <foo>".
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| 12:28 | <_SKiTZO> ;)
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| 12:28 | <_SKiTZO> i used dnsmasq and boy was that refreshing
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| 12:28 | it combined dns dhcp and tftpd in one easy to undersstand/configure service
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| 12:29 | <jhutchins_lt> option host-name "<name>"; in the "host" section appears to be a correct form...
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| 12:32 | <_SKiTZO> jhutchins_lt: booting of the network might happen i ntwo stages
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| 12:32 | for example with gpxe chanloaded after pxe
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| 12:32 | im not sure but you might be setting the hostname in the wrong stage
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| 12:32 | or something
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| 12:33 | <jhutchins_lt> Hostname is setting correctly, but it doesn't appear to have picked up the login info.
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| 12:33 | <_SKiTZO> this is probably not relevant to you
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> jhutchins_lt: at least in Ubuntu, the clients wouldn't get their hostnames from the dhcp server. At some point (maybe after Lenny) the hostnames were changed to ltsp123, and I think now (=Karmic, maybe also in sid) they do get the hostname from the dhcp server.
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| 12:33 | <_SKiTZO> ok
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| 12:33 | <jhutchins_lt> (hostname configured in lts.conf)
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| 12:34 | Corrected the entry in dhcpd.config to include option host-name in the host-specific section, now the console shows the correct hostname.
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| 12:36 | Trying again with mac address instead of hostname in lts.conf
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| 12:39 | Perhaps LDM_USERNAME is only valid globally?
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| 12:48 | <jhutchins_lt> Well, now I've clearly broken auto-login again...
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> All lts.conf settings are available per client...
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| 12:50 | <jhutchins_lt> alkisg: Is there a version-specific list of lts.conf settings somewhere? 'cause I know some of the changed, including possibly autologin setup.
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| 12:50 | <johnny> not really
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| 12:50 | <alkisg> Nope
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| 12:50 | <johnny> we only add
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| 12:50 | none have been removed
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| 12:52 | <jhutchins_lt> LOCALDEV vs. LOCAL_STORAGE?
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| 12:52 | <johnny> things might have been aliased
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| 12:52 | but nothing has been removed
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| 12:52 | 95% of all settings even from ltsp4 are still there
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| 12:52 | some were renamed, but the old behaviour still works
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| 12:53 | localdev is default on anyways..
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| 12:54 | <jhutchins_lt> Well, I've got it set up according to http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/customizing-thin-client.html but no autologin.
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| 12:54 | <johnny> jhutchins_lt, paste your lts.conf
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| 12:54 | <jhutchins_lt> Actually, there, LDM_AUTOLOGIN=TRUE and it worked.
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| 12:54 | <johnny> to the pastebin
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| 12:54 | <johnny> hehe
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| 12:54 | <jhutchins_lt> johnny: But it was working before. Preferred pastebin?
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| 12:55 | <johnny> !pastebot
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| 12:55 | <ltspbot> johnny: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 12:55 | <jhutchins_lt> Now let's see if it'll work per-client...
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| 12:59 | http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m6d3c63c5
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| 12:59 | It's working for the one client. Now to see if I can boot the laptop.
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| 13:00 | <johnny> should work..
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| 13:01 | <jhutchins_lt> No glaring idiocy in the file?
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| 13:01 | <johnny> except all the tabbing you got..
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| 13:01 | and this..
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| 13:01 | CONFIGURE_X_COMMAND=/etc/configure-x-xdebconfigurator
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| 13:02 | not sure why you're using that..
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| 13:03 | <jhutchins_lt> Are tabs a problem?
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| 13:04 | <johnny> it just looks ugly..
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| 13:05 | i'm not sure..
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| 13:05 | <jhutchins_lt> It's pasted together from several sources.
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| 13:07 | Thanks for the help.
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| 14:42 | <jhutchins_lt> It seems like it would be possible to generate a list of lts.conf options and valid values automatically.
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> ?
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| 14:48 | <jhutchins_lt> alkisg: I think I asked earlier if there was a master list.
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> !docs
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| 14:48 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> Yeah, and johnny answered no, right?
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> options come from ltsp, ldm, and ltspfs sources, so it's hard to auto-generate them.
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| 14:49 | <johnny> yes.. there is a master list.. but it's manually maintained
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| 14:49 | or was..
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> lts-parameters.txt has become `man lts.conf` recently...
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| 14:53 | <jhutchins_lt> Not included in Debian lenny.
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| 14:56 | <sbalneav> jhutchins_lt: What's not in included? If lts.conf.5 isn't there, then the lts-parameters.txt should be.
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| 14:56 | <Eghie> wow, didn't know this: http://boot.kernel.org/
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| 14:58 | could be a nice option for LTSP-over-WAN
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| 14:59 | <sbalneav> How so?
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| 15:00 | <johnny> it's not ltsp anymore..
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| 15:00 | <Eghie> a WAN prepared chroot on a public server
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| 15:00 | <johnny> that's just network booting, it's not ltsp
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| 15:00 | <Eghie> to connect to your ltsp server
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| 15:00 | <johnny> ltsp means you do stuff on the server
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| 15:00 | no.. that runs everything locally
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| 15:00 | <sbalneav> Eghie: and what's stopping you from doing that today?
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| 15:00 | <Eghie> sbalneav: time ;)
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| 15:01 | <johnny> it's not ltsp at all tho if you use that
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| 15:01 | <Eghie> just thinking out loud actually
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| 15:01 | <sbalneav> all you "need" for ltsp is the chroot + kernel.
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| 15:01 | and an ssh accessible machine somewhere.
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| 15:02 | <Eghie> johnny: I mean a chroot/live environment which can connect via WAN to your LTSP server and use your local PC with local devices and stuff, Like you are in your LAN
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| 15:02 | <johnny> then it's not ltsp at all..
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| 15:02 | even thouh you're connecting to your server that happens to be an ltsp server
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| 15:02 | <sbalneav> Well it is
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| 15:02 | you're just unbearably slow :)
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| 15:02 | <johnny> you wouldn't get a remote session with local devices with that
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| 15:03 | <Eghie> no, I know
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| 15:03 | it is not even build
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| 15:03 | <johnny> ?
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| 15:03 | <Eghie> at least, not that I know
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| 15:03 | * sbalneav can never figure out what the attraction is to "ltsp over a wan" | |
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| 15:03 | <Eghie> I mean, it would work with current chroot environment
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| 15:03 | <johnny> what would?
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| 15:03 | <Eghie> but would be a nice addon of the project
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| 15:03 | <johnny> it's called standard networking booting
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| 15:04 | not at all related to thin clients
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| 15:04 | except the fact that dsl is small..
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| 15:04 | <Eghie> sbalneav: getting to use your environment when your outside of your LAN
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| 15:05 | <johnny> then you boot a regular pc and login over X
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| 15:05 | or ssh + X
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| 15:05 | <sbalneav> Eghie: You can do that *right now*
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| 15:05 | <Appiah> what in your enviorment do you want to access?
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| 15:05 | <Eghie> yeah, ssh + x can do, I know
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| 15:05 | <sbalneav> ssh -X remote-host on wan "gnome-session"
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| 15:05 | <johnny> that's all we do.. in ltsp
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| 15:05 | <sbalneav> because at the end of the day, that's all LTSP's doing.
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| 15:06 | <johnny> Eghie, btw.. we have someting called fat client support if you want a network booted environment, but not running stuff on the server
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| 15:06 | <Eghie> but in the middle of the day you also transfer audio, local devices and stuff
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| 15:06 | johnny: I know about that yes
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| 15:06 | <sbalneav> So, just do the same things we do.
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| 15:06 | <johnny> that's exactly what that boot kernel thing is..
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| 15:06 | is the same as our fat client.. except not using dsl
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| 15:06 | <Eghie> johnny: I know
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| 15:07 | <johnny> so why is it a nice addition if we already have it? :)
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| 15:07 | sbalneav, well you coculd have ltspfs and ldm packages that run on a regular pc.. to tie it all together..
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| 15:08 | <sbalneav> johnny: About the only thing you;d have to do to turn a "full machine" into a "thin" client would be to install ldm, and ltspfsd on the machine.
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| 15:08 | <johnny> but of course.. the only reasonably fast way to do it is over NX.. and we don't work very well with that officially..
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| 15:08 | sbalneav, only thing would be something to run ldm in xephyr
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| 15:09 | <Eghie> johnny: TFTP + DHCP is nice for LAN, but booting a full working "LTSP compatible" client over WAN, then setting up a custom DHCP is not that handy
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| 15:09 | <sbalneav> maybe craft some kind of custom init.d startup script to start ldm instead of gdm.
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| 15:09 | <johnny> sbalneav, not turn a regular pc into a thin client
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| 15:09 | but run it as an app
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| 15:09 | <sbalneav> Eghie: How will you ever be able to "boot" a thin client over the wan?
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| 15:09 | <johnny> just like xephyr.. but with local devices
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| 15:09 | sbalneav, gpxe + http ?
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| 15:10 | <sbalneav> johnny: how'd that be any different from gpxe + tftp?
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| 15:10 | tftp = send you a file
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| 15:10 | http = send you a file
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| 15:11 | <jhutchins_lt> Any tips on getting a PS/2 mouse to work?
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| 15:11 | <johnny> jhutchins_lt, it should just work..
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| 15:11 | <Appiah> openvpn client a chroot , have it connect during startup before launching LDM
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| 15:11 | <jhutchins_lt> johnny: Agreed. It doesn't.
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| 15:11 | <Appiah> \o
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| 15:11 | <johnny> jhutchins_lt, blame your distro
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| 15:11 | lol
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| 15:11 | sbalneav, you can script what to do better with an http server than a tftp server
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| 15:12 | <jhutchins_lt> johnny: Certainly. I've had problems with PS/2 mice in locally installed Ubuntu as well.
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| 15:12 | <johnny> even dynamically generate an lts.conf
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| 15:12 | which you can't do with tftp
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| 15:12 | <sbalneav> Buh?
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| 15:12 | <johnny> altho not really related to wan..
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| 15:12 | <Eghie> and HTTP is more firewall friendly
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| 15:12 | <sbalneav> HUH?
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| 15:12 | <johnny> http is open by default ?
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| 15:13 | unlike many others?
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| 15:13 | for most people that is
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| 15:13 | <sbalneav> Oh man, I gotta stop idling in this channel.
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| 15:13 | <Eghie> lol
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| 15:13 | <sbalneav> facts are beginning to get miiiiiiiighty thin in here.
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| 15:13 | <johnny> for some reason i thought that tftp was udp.. but it's probably not
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| 15:14 | but http would still be better .. it's just that very little hardware can boot http by default
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| 15:14 | Eghie, that's your real problem
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| 15:14 | and you'd still have to manually input the remote address.. as dhcp won't be able to discover it for you
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| 15:14 | if you're booting remotely
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| 15:15 | unless you flash your network device
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| 15:15 | <Eghie> DNS?
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| 15:15 | <johnny> sure.. but it can't auto discover that
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| 15:15 | where the file you need is
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| 15:15 | you'd have to burn it
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| 15:16 | better to do what i suggested.. and allow a regular pc to run an ltsp session by running ldm in a xephyr session
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| 15:17 | * Lns waves | |
| 15:18 | <Eghie> guess nx whould perform better on WAN though
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| 15:18 | <johnny> of course
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| 15:18 | <Eghie> and could be hacked into LTSP I guess
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| 15:19 | or just besides LTSP I actually mean
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| 15:19 | <Lns> Is /etc/profile still a good place to put "global" login script-y type stuff for users?
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| 15:20 | <_USUrPeR_> hey all
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| 15:20 | <johnny> no /etc/profile.d ?
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| 15:20 | <Lns> johnny: got that too
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| 15:20 | <johnny> then sure..
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| 15:20 | <_USUrPeR_> having problems getting ltsp w/8.04 working properly with screen_07 = rdesktop
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| 15:20 | <johnny> at least for now
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| 15:20 | <_USUrPeR_> I have rdp_server pointed to the right place...
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| 15:20 | <Lns> thx johnny
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| 15:20 | <johnny> put it on SCREEN_08?
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| 15:20 | lol
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| 15:21 | <_USUrPeR_> but it's bringing up a simple x desktop
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| 15:21 | :<
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| 15:21 | am I missing a step for the lts.conf? I'm not seeing any docs for this
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| 15:23 | no one? :(
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> RDP_SERVER, RDP_OPTIONS
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| 15:24 | <jhutchins_lt> Interesting, it's logging me in with LDM autologin, but I don't exist in the chroot...
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| 15:24 | <_USUrPeR_> alkisg: got that. RDP server + options (-4 for win2k8r2 server)
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> _USUrPeR_: wanna share all the relevant lines to pastebot?
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| 15:26 | <_USUrPeR_> alkisg: wait. This runs as a localapp from the client doesnt it?
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 15:27 | <_USUrPeR_> I think I just needed to talk this out
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> So if it's on a different subnet etc you'll need dns, gateway etc
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| 15:32 | <_USUrPeR_> ok, got it
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| 15:32 | <Lns> hrm, putting a simple shell script in /etc/profile.d named "local.sh", executable, with a command to touch a file doesn't work upon user login.
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| 15:33 | does this need to be in the chroot?
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| 15:39 | <Eghie> profile runs on the server
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| 15:39 | so, I guess not
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| 15:39 | <jhutchins_lt> So GUI users don't need to be added to the chroot?
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| 15:39 | <Appiah> "gui users" are users on the server
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| 15:39 | <Eghie> what about /etc/xdg/autostart/?
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| 15:40 | /etc/xdg/autostart/ is using .desktop files and not actually shell files, but that shouldn't matter much
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| 15:41 | we use it to start a kind of "active desktop"
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| 15:41 | gecko gtk fullscreen on the background with a website on it
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| 15:43 | <Lns> Eghie: ah, that's probably what i'm looking for =) thx! (looking at http://trac.64studio.com/64studio/ticket/107 sheds some light as well)
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> Lns: users can customize those from System > Preferences > Startup programs
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| 15:45 | (i.e. disable some ones or put others)
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| 15:46 | <Lns> alkisg: yeah - i'm just looking for a good way for all users to have a certain script launch whenever they log in that they can't edit..i'm assuming a user can't disable autostart .desktop files in /etc/xdg/autostart/
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Lns: they can
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| 15:46 | <Lns> really??
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| 15:46 | <jhutchins_lt> D'Oh, sorry.
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Yup, that's why I spoke :)
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| 15:46 | <Lns> lame!
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| 15:46 | so you have a better solution? :)
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| 15:46 | <Eghie> ok, good that i know ;)
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> I don't know, profile, xsession...
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| 15:47 | <Lns> profile doesn't work cuz you're not running bash, from what i read
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| 15:47 | xsession..
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> Wasn't that fixed some years ago?
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| 15:47 | <Eghie> what about /etc/X11/Xsession.d/?
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> Lns: is that 8.04?
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| 15:48 | * Lns nods | |
| 15:48 | <alkisg> Well, *upgrade* :D
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| 15:48 | Heh
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| 15:48 | <Lns> no. =p
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| 15:48 | * alkisg is going to stick to LTS releases from 10.04 and forward... :) | |
| 15:48 | <Lns> that's what everyone told me to do in the Feisty days. I'm done with upgrading to trade old bugs for new ones ;)
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| 15:48 | alkisg: yes. That's what I did starting with 8.04 =)
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> Unfortunately 8.04 wasn't good enough for Greece
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| 15:49 | We didn't have Greek in ldm, in flash, in many places
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| 15:49 | I hope 10.04 will be a good starting point
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| 15:49 | <Lns> i'm suffering because we don't have localapps...but when 10.04 is stable enough we're going to that and hopefully be on the at for a couple years =)
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| 15:49 | <jhutchins_lt> If I update the /etc/modules file in the chroot, do I need to do ltsp-update-image?
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| 15:49 | <Lns> jhutchins_lt: updating anything in the chroot requires an update
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| 15:50 | alkisg: heh..yeah, the good old days of libflashsupport ;)
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| 15:50 | <jhutchins_lt> Lns: Well, updating lts.conf doesn't appear to.
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| 15:50 | <Lns> jhutchins_lt: that file is outside of the chroot
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| 15:50 | <Eghie> lts.conf is loaded from te server
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> jhutchins_lt: erm, nfs or nbd?
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| 15:50 | debian or ubuntu?
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| 15:51 | <jhutchins_lt> debian
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> NFS or NBD?
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| 15:51 | By default, it uses NFS, so you don't need to run ltsp-update-image EVER
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| 15:51 | <jhutchins_lt> alkisg: What's the quickest way to check?
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> Well if you didn't change anything, it uses the defaults... so I'd guess nfs
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| 15:51 | See if nbd is in /etc/inetd.conf ?
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| 15:52 | Or check your /etc/exports...
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| 15:52 | <jhutchins_lt> alkisg: Check it for which?
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| 15:52 | <Lns> heh...i keep forgetting debian uses nfs still
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> alkisg@alkis:~$ grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf
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| 15:53 | 9572 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdswapd
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| 15:53 | 2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 15:53 | <jhutchins_lt> nfsd appears to be running/
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> Or you can see /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default, to see if it passes a boot=nfs
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| 15:53 | <jhutchins_lt> nbdswapd, nbdrootd
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| 15:54 | boot = nfs
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> There you go
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| 15:54 | So you don't ever need to run ltsp-update-image
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| 15:55 | <jhutchins_lt> alkisg: Thank you.
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> np
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| 15:59 | <Eghie> is ntop able to monitor nbd?
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| 16:01 | * alkisg has used iftop and iptraf to monitor the bandwidth... | |
| 16:01 | <Lns> throwing a file in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ doesn't work either :(
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| 16:02 | i feel like i'm missing something easy here
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> Lns, did you put a numbered prefix on it?
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| 16:02 | <Lns> alkisg: yep...26
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| 16:02 | right after 25edubuntu-menus =)
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| 16:03 | wonder if my #!/bin/bash is screwing with it
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| 16:04 | <Eghie> but iftop and iptraf will get the bandwidth not per protocol, or do they?
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> Yeah, I don't know specifically for nbd..
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| 16:04 | <Lns> ah, it was!
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| 16:05 | <Lns> since files in Xsession.d get sourced i guess using #!/bin/bash causes them to malfunction
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| 16:05 | <alkisg> Lns: so you removed #!/bin/bash and it worked? Wow...
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| 16:05 | <Lns> wierd..i saw that in a few of the scripts in there
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| 16:05 | yea
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| 16:05 | <Eghie> maybe a difference in /bin/sh and /bin/bash?
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| 16:06 | <Lns> would be weird, all i had the script do was touch a file
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| 16:06 | lessee
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> Maybe because they're sourced (with sh running), they refuse to load bash scripts...
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| 16:07 | <Lns> yes, it worked w/ #!/bin/sh
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| 16:07 | interesting!
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| 16:07 | now i wonder if that was the deal with profile.d
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> So they must have a specific check for that
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| 16:07 | No, I think the profile.d problem was solved after hardy...
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| 16:07 | <Lns> alkisg: what was the issue?
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> Well, gnome? gdm? xsession? or something that was supposed to source profile, didn't
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| 16:08 | <Lns> ah
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| 16:08 | yeah just tested w/profile.d..no work
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| 16:09 | <alkisg> So they complained and they fixed it, I saw a bug in launchpad about that
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| 16:09 | <Lns> cool
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| 16:09 | here's what i'm doing btw if anyone is interested
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| 16:09 | i'm implementing the whole shared desktop thing i have on the ubuntu ltsp wiki
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> Ouch, none for me, thanks :)
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| 16:10 | <sbalneav> sourced files shouldn't have the shebang at the beginning
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| 16:10 | <Lns> and i'm going to automate part of the desktop linking by group membership...so say, if a user is a member of the "grade6" group, it automatically links the shared desktop for 6th graders to their profile..so user accounts are more portable through years and easier to administrate for those who don't know how to script
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| 16:11 | <sbalneav> Lns: fyi, sabayon now can apply profiles by group membership
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> Lns, and that's only for the Desktop? Why not for Documents as well?
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| 16:11 | <sbalneav> I added that feature. Packages are in my ppa
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| 16:12 | <Lns> sbalneav: is your sabayon ppa good for hardy?
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| 16:13 | <sbalneav> no, I don't have a hardy build there.
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| 16:13 | <Lns> sniff sniff...hehe
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| 16:13 | no worries
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| 16:13 | i'm looking forward to unleashing that tool when 10.04 hits
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| 16:13 | as well as the new thing i hear about...localapps...haha
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| 16:13 | <sbalneav> Hmmm, one sec.
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| 16:16 | <Lns> what's that really useful shell tool that returns info about a user like group membership, etc....i forget :(
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| 16:16 | (not 'groups')
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> Lns: you do know about xdg-user-dirs-update and xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update, right?
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| 16:17 | Lns, `id` ?
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| 16:17 | <Lns> alkisg: lol...no
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| 16:17 | alkisg: i don't think it was id but that works too
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| 16:17 | johnny had it in a script i looked at a while back
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> Lns, how are you doing the desktop merging? With ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs ?
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| 16:18 | Or by symlinking?
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| 16:18 | <Lns> alkisg: no...i'm doing that in the future but right now i'm using symlinking..i know it's not as efficient but that's how i had it set up the first time
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| 16:18 | <sbalneav> Lns: I've adjusted the control file somewhat, I'm tryin a hardy build now.
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| 16:18 | <Lns> sbalneav: wow cool =)
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| 16:18 | <alkisg> Lns, so if a user logs on with another language, it won't work, right?
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| 16:19 | <Lns> uhh..it wouldn't?
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> E.g. if I logon to the PC with Greek, I'll have "Επιφάνεια εργασίας" instead of "Desktop", so any symlinks there would be useless
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| 16:19 | <Lns> oh wow
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| 16:19 | heh..never thought of that :/
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| 16:20 | i'm going to put the xdg thing in my todo list for a long break (maybe winter break)..along with reorganizing /home to have things like /home/students and such...to make acl application easier
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> There's a GROUP_HOMES variable in adduser.conf afaik
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| 16:24 | <Lns> alkisg: that's for primary groups right?
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| 16:24 | GROUPHOMES
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| 16:24 | Sarten-X has quit IRC | |
| 16:25 | <alkisg> I don't remember, it's been a long time since I've used it
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| 16:25 | <Lns> # If GROUPHOMES is "yes", then the home directories will be created as /home/groupname/user.
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| 16:27 | <sbalneav> checking for intltool >= 0.40.0... 0.37.1 found
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| 16:27 | configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.40.0 or later.
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| 16:27 | hmm
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| 16:28 | <Lns> hmmm
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| 16:28 | such is the life of an LTS admin ;)
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> You can put that on your ppa as well ;)
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| 16:30 | <sbalneav> Wellllll, lets see what bad happens if I remove the dependency as well.
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| 16:30 | I mean, the dependency on a specific VERSION of intltool.
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| 16:30 | I really hate that sort of thing.
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| 16:31 | <Lns> sbalneav: are you italian?
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| 16:31 | cuz it sounds like you're making spaghetti ;)
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| 16:34 | <Lns> ah, looks like GROUPHOMES is for primary group only
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| 16:34 | which makes sense
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| 16:59 | <Eghie> wow there are even more cool nbd implementations
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| 17:02 | didn't know that it could be used in such ways
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| 17:32 | <Lns> hrm, user-dirs.defaults paths are relative to a users' homedir...doesn't look like you can actually specify outside unless i'm missing something, which means only symlinking would work for shared desktop dirs
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| 17:33 | ah, that's just in /etc/xdg... ~/.config looks like it's a full path. which is a pita if you want to do global stuff :/
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| 17:33 | i always hate having to traverse all users' individual configs
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| 17:33 | i guess xdg-user-dirs-update is good for that thou
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| 17:47 | <nubae__> Lns, hi there
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| 17:47 | Ahmuck__ has quit IRC | |
| 17:47 | <Lns> hey nubae__
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| 17:47 | long time!
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| 17:47 | <nubae__> Lns, u seen google wave yet?
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| 17:47 | indeed
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| 17:48 | <Lns> how've you been
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| 17:48 | <nubae__> if u want to to see it in action and help fill in some data check front page of my blog www.nubae.com
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| 17:48 | if u need an invite let me know
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| 17:48 | I've been good
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| 17:48 | <Lns> nah haven't seen google wave
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| 17:49 | <nubae__> working on this and that, going back to my roots more... taking a sys admin job in Czek republic
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| 17:49 | working for asicion
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| 17:49 | apparently they are very big... 800+ linux engineers
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| 17:49 | <Lns> don't have an acct..kinda busy right now otherwise i'd be all for it =)
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| 17:49 | wow!
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| 17:49 | nice
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| 17:50 | <nubae__> give me an email, I'll send u an invitie
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| 17:50 | its worth seeing, the schools will love it
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| 17:50 | u can pretty much share with anyone or everyone any gadget created with google tech...
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| 17:51 | a million uses for schools, u'll get some definite awes showing it off
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| 17:53 | <Lns> =) Sounds like the future!
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| 17:54 | <nubae__> yeah, sadly kinda obsoletes telepathy a bit
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| 17:54 | although it must be web based
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| 17:55 | <Lns> haha, well there's always going to be something for someone...i'm skeptical about giving google everything about me. I like hosting my own caldav server, etc.
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| 17:55 | <nubae__> so telepathy has that going for it... no web reqiured... more specialised
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| 17:55 | but the masses... this is the killer app google will be famous for after gmail
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| 17:56 | yeah I hear yah
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| 17:56 | <nubae__> they never really say if they are FOSS or not
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| 17:56 | they are kinda hiding in plaiin site
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| 17:57 | what I mean is... they are as bad as microsoft in that respect, but don't get even 100th the bashing....
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| 17:57 | <Lns> exactly
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| 17:57 | distribution of power is the only thing that keeps balance.
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| 17:59 | <nubae__> yeah google is kinda playing the eveyrthing game
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| 17:59 | noticed their official beta chrome for linux release today
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| 17:59 | <Lns> yeah that's everywhere
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| 17:59 | less meh
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| 17:59 | <nubae__> abd their 2 linux oses android and chrome os
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| 18:00 | so slowly, they are kinda sinking their teeth into it all
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| 18:00 | I wonder how long it takes the us gov. to catch one though
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| 18:00 | they've managed to keep this we aren't evil persona going for so long
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| 18:01 | <Lns> heh i know...well they're in with them too, they're watching them
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| 18:01 | and using them
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| 18:01 | <nubae__> I mean, if u keep insisting u aren't evil.... doesn't that ususally mean the opposite
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| 18:02 | <Lns> no need to state it if you are it
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| 18:02 | of course this is business world...
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| 18:02 | marketing is everything
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| 18:02 | <nubae__> yeah
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| 18:04 | <kusznir> Hi all: got a quick ubnutu-ltsp question: I've noticed that on my thin clients, when I pull up users and groups manager, the "unlock" button is greyed out. I can log into the console of the system and add/manage users, just not on any remote session. Is there a way to change this behavior?
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| 18:04 | (my server is about to get installed in a rack in a server room; having to go down there to add users is a pain, and when I add them with the useradd command line, it seems like the account is only half created)
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| 18:05 | <Lns> kusznir: i remember running into something similar
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| 18:05 | what version are you on?
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| 18:05 | <kusznir> 9.04
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| 18:05 | <Lns> (also, try 'adduser', not 'useradd')
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| 18:07 | <kusznir> Lns: Ok, thanks...Do you know of a way to remove the gui restrictions?
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| 18:08 | <Lns> kusznir: i completely forget what the issue was with that. something wants me to say it had to do with dbus, but i can't be certain
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| 18:08 | might wanna try googling
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| 18:08 | and i'm on 8.04 so it might not be the same thing
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| 18:09 | <nubae__> thats an apport thing
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| 18:09 | u have to be on the actual server
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| 18:09 | <jhutchins_lt> So is there a way to make ldm/ltsp do a _default_ auto login, but allow that user to log out so someone else can log in?
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| 18:09 | <nubae__> or from the server allow access via appport
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| 18:10 | <kusznir> nubae__ Not familiar with appport...how do I allow access?
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| 18:12 | <nubae__> its the protection from accessing apps forall users
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| 18:12 | google it
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| 18:13 | I maybe confusing opensuse's version of the same thing, could be another name
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| 18:17 | <Lns> i do remember it had something to do with it seeing you're not logged on locally to the machine, and how it "works" with some remote apps such as vnc or similar, but not others depending on how they actually connect to the server
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| 18:31 | wow..just discovered 'dmidecode'....very useful =)
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| 18:33 | <dmarkey_> sbalneav: are you there
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| 18:34 | <johnny> jhutchins_lt, use the login timeout thing
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| 18:35 | it's another lts.conf option
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| 18:35 | <dmarkey_> johnny: wer you in the mozplugger conversation earlier
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| 18:36 | <johnny> not really
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| 18:36 | i don't really agree with any approach that brings us away from gstreamer :)
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| 18:37 | <dmarkey_> how would that be designed then
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| 18:37 | <johnny> the same?
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| 18:37 | mozplugger works iwth anything
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| 18:37 | dmarkey_, altho google is starting to add html5 support to youtube
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| 18:38 | <dmarkey_> so thats the codecs built into the browser
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| 18:39 | <johnny> not really..
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| 18:39 | it uses gstreamer
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| 18:39 | or should be anyways..
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| 18:51 | <dmarkey_> johnny: but how does that help with youtube as is
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| 19:05 | <jhutchins_lt> Dang, I had a good list of lts.conf directives and I closed it.
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| 19:07 | This looks useful: http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/docs/ltsp-4.1-en.html#AEN1190
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| 19:14 | Arrgh! Can't find it defined anywhere.
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| 19:22 | Seriously, does anybody have a link to a list of lts.conf parameters?
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| 19:23 | <johnny> it ain't in old 4.1 docs for sure..
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| 19:23 | jhutchins_lt, run this command
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| 19:23 | locate lts-parameters.txt.gz
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| 19:23 | or just locate lts-parameters
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| 19:25 | <jhutchins_lt> For some reason it didn't find it the first time. Typo on my part no doubt.
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| 19:25 | johnny: pattern "time" not found in file.
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| 19:26 | johnny: I know I saw it in an earlier doc, but I can't find that doc again.
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| 19:27 | <johnny> time?
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| 19:27 | open it up
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| 19:27 | it's in gz format.. so you have to unzip it first or use zcat
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| 19:27 | or use less
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| 19:27 | zcat | grep -i time
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| 19:27 | <jhutchins_lt> Yes, guzipped, used less, search time and TIME
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| 19:28 | <johnny> perhaps your version is too old to have it..
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| 19:28 | <jhutchins_lt> 5.1.10-2
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| 19:29 | grep -i time /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/lts-parameters.txt - no return
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| 19:29 | Sigh. Try again tomorrow.
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| 19:29 | <johnny> i don't recall which ubuntu version goes with wich ltsp version
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| 19:31 | jhutchins_lt, if you want, you can check out ldm from bzr and grep that
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| 19:31 | i don't feel like doing it right now.. i have working with bzr
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| 19:31 | somebody else has a checkout tho..
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| 19:31 | here
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| 19:31 | sbalneav, i know you have a checkout..
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| 19:32 | the AUTOLOGIN stuff doesn't seem to be in !docs
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| 19:32 | in the lts.conf section
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| 19:32 | <jhutchins_lt> johnny: I know I saw the parameter in some guide I had online earlier, but I haven't found it agian.
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| 19:35 | <johnny> they should all be at the docs site..
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| 19:35 | but i don't think they are anymore.. got lost in the transistion
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| 21:08 | <sbalneav> jhutchins_lt: !docs
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| 21:08 | !docs
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| 21:08 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 21:10 | <sbalneav> jhutchins_lt: docs for LDM_AUTOLOGIN, LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD are in the docs
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| 21:41 | <johnny> sbalneav, but what about the TIMEOUT ?
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| 21:41 | that's the one that's missing
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| 21:41 | LDM_AUTOLOGIN_TIMEOUT maybe?
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