IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 5 July 2015 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <vagrantc> so that's one limitation of dnsmasq
| |
| 00:00 | <TheProf> vagrantc: Thank you -- I don't have any machines scheduled to turn on automatically. I imagine in the computer lab the 30 computers will be turned on by the students and there will definitely delays between them.
| |
| 00:01 | <vagrantc> dnsmasq can be configured to do all sorts of complex things, and it's arguably as easy if not easier than isc-dhcp-server, for example.
| |
| 00:01 | <maldridge> huh, wonder if that's what was killing one of my labs, I was waking up 150 machines with wol magic packet
| |
| 00:01 | I would say its definitely easier, but for sheer power and configurability, it is lacking
| |
| 00:02 | certainly lacking in the direction of HA
| |
| 00:02 | <vagrantc> ah, never tried HA DHCP servers.
| |
| 00:02 | dunno what other configurability or "sheer power" you might be referring to, though.
| |
| 00:03 | <maldridge> sheer power as in being able to support a few thousand boxes with nice clean configs
| |
| 00:03 | my preferred stack is isc-dhcpd, nsd, unbound, and pf
| |
| 00:04 | with that I can scale horizontally as much as I want, and its all nice and modular
| |
| 00:04 | <TheProf> And here I am getting stressed out over 30 computers :)
| |
| 00:05 | <maldridge> eh, I would argue the first lab is the hardest to set up
| |
| 00:05 | you have to make real choices there and actually configure things, once you have that done you can spin up more easily
| |
| 00:07 | <TheProf> There has been definite struggles that's for sure. One semi-related one is I'm trying to get Internet from another building 250 meters away through a wireless connection as I can't get reasonable bandwidth at the school site.
| |
| 00:08 | <maldridge> ah, those are always fun
| |
| 00:09 | <TheProf> In addition to the link posted above, are there other resources for ltsp-pnp so I can continue to educate myself about it?
| |
| 00:10 | <maldridge> I'm not sure if there are any that are fully up to date, others might know of some
| |
| 00:10 | the guy that wrote that page hangs out here later at night
| |
| 00:10 | lee has left IRC (lee!~lee@loathe.ms, Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | |
| 00:10 | <vagrantc> TheProf: there's not a lot to it
| |
| 00:11 | which is part of what makes it so good.
| |
| 00:12 | lee_ has joined IRC (lee_!~lee@loathe.ms) | |
| 00:12 | <TheProf> ok. I think to mitigate any issues I'm going to set up another test server and try it all out there first. Because I'm a volunteer I can't always be there to trouble-shoot when things go wrong, and teachers are rather picky about their youtube access :)
| |
| 00:13 | <vagrantc> oh, the biggest problem you might encounter with fat clients is the lack of authentication ... so screen lockers will lock the users out (or locking has to be disabled)
| |
| 00:14 | it does some pretty crude hacks to create a local user, but doesn't have a local password by default
| |
| 00:14 | <maldridge> TheProf: you should probably also use if you aren't already some kind of configuration management and a vcs so you can back out changes that didn't go as you expected
| |
| 00:14 | <vagrantc> !password
| |
| 00:14 | <ltsp> Error: "password" is not a valid command.
| |
| 00:14 | <vagrantc> !pass
| |
| 00:14 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'pass', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fat-passwd', 'bypass_acceleration'
| |
| 00:14 | <vagrantc> !fat-passwd
| |
| 00:14 | <ltsp> fat-passwd: to allow fat client users to change their password, install the usermode package both in the server and in the chroot, and put these in lts.conf: REMOTE_APPS=True, RCFILE_01="sed 's,^Exec=,Exec=ltsp-remoteapps ,' -i /usr/share/applications/redhat-userinfo.desktop", RCFILE_02="sed 's,^Exec=,Exec=ltsp-remoteapps ,' -i /usr/share/applications/redhat-userpasswd.desktop"
| |
| 00:14 | <vagrantc> whoah! that's not what i wa looking for
| |
| 00:15 | <maldridge> still a great hack though
| |
| 00:16 | <vagrantc> there's a feature in recent versions of LDM where you can set LDM_HASH_PASSWORD=true in lts.conf to store a local copy
| |
| 00:16 | so screen lockers can work again ... but changing the password still needs to be done on the server
| |
| 00:16 | (it will work locally, but be reset on reboot)
| |
| 00:16 | so that's confusing...
| |
| 00:17 | <TheProf> vagrantc: I'm OK with changing passwords via the server -- the students don't change their own passwords normally.
| |
| 00:17 | <maldridge> is there a reason that you can't authenticate through the pam stack with something like kerberos or ldap?
| |
| 00:17 | <TheProf> but the screen locking is an issue for sure.
| |
| 00:17 | vagrantc: is that ltsp-bot post the solution to that?
| |
| 00:17 | <vagrantc> maldridge: that's in the plans, but we tried implementing workarounds to having to set up kerberos or ldap ... and it's worked well enough, but has reached it's limits.
| |
| 00:18 | maldridge: our next workaround is libpam-sshauth
| |
| 00:18 | <maldridge> ok, I run actual disk installs and I can confirm 100% that ldap is a pain to setup
| |
| 00:18 | <vagrantc> well, it's less of a hack.
| |
| 00:19 | we'rehoping to get rid of LDM for LTSP6, but there hasn't been a lot of momentum on a major undertaking like that for a while.
| |
| 00:19 | <maldridge> interesting
| |
| 00:19 | also xlock with an .xlockrc
| |
| 00:20 | would use a common lock screen password, but would allow for screen locking
| |
| 00:20 | <vagrantc> http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:LTSPPamNotes
| |
| 00:20 | !pam
| |
| 00:20 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'pam', but I do know about these similar topics: 'pad'
| |
| 00:20 | <vagrantc> !libpam
| |
| 00:20 | <ltsp> Error: "libpam" is not a valid command.
| |
| 00:21 | <vagrantc> !ltsp6
| |
| 00:21 | <ltsp> ltsp6: See: !future
| |
| 00:21 | <vagrantc> !future
| |
| 00:21 | <ltsp> future: Some of the highlights include working towards obsoleting LDM (using libpam-sshauth/libnss-sshsock), moving stuff out of ltsp-build-client into initramfs run-time modifications, and making it possible to maintain the chroot from a booted environment
| |
| 00:21 | <vagrantc> we've already done nearly all the initramfs stuff, i guess. :)
| |
| 00:21 | <maldridge> yeah, those certainly sound like large undertakings
| |
| 00:23 | <vagrantc> ideally, i'd like to figure out ways to hook into any of the various remote options for pam
| |
| 00:23 | ldap, kerberos, even something sql based
| |
| 00:23 | <maldridge> eh, its hilariously insecure, but I'd go for NIS first
| |
| 00:23 | <vagrantc> though libpam-sshauth is our "in-house" attempt at hooking into pam
| |
| 00:23 | <maldridge> I see
| |
| 00:24 | nis with kerberos would be reasonably secure, and gets around having to read X.509 docs for ldap
| |
| 00:25 | <vagrantc> speaking of which, i need to fix a build failure for libpam-sshauth in debian
| |
| 00:25 | <maldridge> is ltsp planning to pull any build deps that are systemd specific? and/or where could I find documentation for writing the system-specific bits of ltsp to port it to a new distro
| |
| 00:26 | <vagrantc> nothing systemd specific, no
| |
| 00:27 | on debian, it's mostly falling back to the compatibility code
| |
| 00:27 | but it'd be good to improve the systemd support
| |
| 00:27 | maldridge: what distro?
| |
| 00:29 | <maldridge> void
| |
| 00:29 | its runit based
| |
| 00:29 | <vagrantc> this is an ancient list we used to eventually create ltsp5: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:Compliance
| |
| 00:30 | wow, the 32MB of ram is out the window! hah.
| |
| 00:30 | oh, 2006
| |
| 00:30 | <maldridge> wow, so network auth has been in there for a while
| |
| 00:31 | bbiaf, heading into work
| |
| 00:31 | <vagrantc> maldridge: this might be useful: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:Design
| |
| 00:50 | <maldridge> I think I'm missing something
| |
| 01:00 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Ping timeout: 252 seconds) | |
| 01:11 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 01:16 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| 01:31 | TheProf has left IRC (TheProf!~chatzilla@TOROON47-1176243489.sdsl.bell.ca, Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | |
| 02:04 | <maldridge> I'm trying to troubleshoot an nbd volume not being mounted at boot, any suggestions?
| |
| 02:11 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc) | |
| 02:15 | <vagrantc> maldridge: the basic things to do to add support for a new distro in LTSP are appropriate hooks for ltsp-build-client to create a chroot that installs the ltsp-client and related packages (ltsp-client, ltspfs, ldm).
| |
| 02:16 | maldridge: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/files
| |
| 02:16 | the client directory contains code for ltsp-client, and the server directory for ltsp-server bits...
| |
| 02:17 | LDM is the display manager, and ltspfs i a fuse-based filesystem and automounter system for LTSP for mounting things like USB sticks and such...
| |
| 02:19 | <maldridge> ok, so as long as I can get those things to build, its just down to writing hte bits that maintain the chroot
| |
| 02:21 | <vagrantc> oh, and you'll need to make sure whatever initramfs system you use can do the read-only root with some sort of tmpfs overlay
| |
| 02:22 | <maldridge> ok, that makes sense
| |
| 02:22 | <vagrantc> ltsp-client and ltsp-server are largely build-your-own packages, since distros vary so widely, but ldm and ltspfs are fairly straightforward
| |
| 02:22 | <maldridge> void has tried very hard to maintain more or less patch free upstream stuff
| |
| 02:22 | <jammcq> hey vagrantc
| |
| 02:23 | * vagrantc waves to jammcq | |
| 02:23 | <jammcq> how's everything going? haven't talked to anyone in a while
| |
| 02:23 | <vagrantc> maldridge: well, ltsp is largely just a collection of scripts and hooks to scripts ... not really something you can just "make install"
| |
| 02:23 | jammcq: not much going on, unfortunately ...
| |
| 02:24 | jammcq: warren's stirring up some muck to get support back on track for fedora/redhat/centos and whatnot
| |
| 02:24 | <jammcq> hmmm
| |
| 02:24 | I think he's moving to SanFran
| |
| 02:26 | <vagrantc> jammcq: alkisg and i were hoping to try and make progress on LTSP6 stuff ... but it would be good to get more people with time, energy and motivation...
| |
| 02:26 | ltsp's kind of been in maintenance mode with infrequent bursts of activity for the last few years
| |
| 02:27 | <jammcq> yeah, I miss the days when I was heavily involved
| |
| 02:27 | <maldridge> vagrantc: would you say ltsp has a low barrier to entry?
| |
| 02:27 | <jammcq> only 2 more years of having kids in college. hopefully I can relax a bit and get more involved when that's over
| |
| 02:27 | <vagrantc> we're really close to syncig the ubuntu and debian packaging
| |
| 02:28 | maldridge: it's a bit unconventional, in that it's basically a glue project that ties a bunch of other software together to support network-booted computers
| |
| 02:28 | <jammcq> it's my understanding that both debian and ubuntu are moving to systemd, that should make them more alike
| |
| 02:29 | * vagrantc is pretty init system agnostic | |
| 02:29 | <vagrantc> hopefully we can keep ltsp that way
| |
| 02:29 | <maldridge> jammcq: yes, they are both going to systemd
| |
| 02:30 | vagrantc: I ask because I am the acting president of my university's lug, and we're looking for a decent open source project to point people to
| |
| 02:30 | our lab is built on top of ltsp and so it seems like a nice fit
| |
| 02:30 | <vagrantc> maldridge: it's a project that's sort of between software development and system administration
| |
| 02:30 | <jammcq> maldridge: where are you located?
| |
| 02:30 | <maldridge> jammcq: Texas
| |
| 02:31 | <jammcq> cool, what part?
| |
| 02:31 | <maldridge> North part
| |
| 02:31 | * maldridge wonders why jammcq wants to know | |
| 02:31 | <jammcq> i've been to dallas, austin and houston
| |
| 02:31 | i'm asking cuz i'm interested to know where my project is being used
| |
| 02:32 | <gehidore> maldridge: because people like to relate to other people
| |
| 02:32 | <maldridge> ah, UT Dallas
| |
| 02:32 | <vagrantc> maldridge: it'd be great to get more involvement, but i can't really speak to the barriers to entry... i've been a developer for almost 10 years now, and one of the few active developers for the last several
| |
| 02:32 | <jammcq> ah, cool
| |
| 02:32 | <vagrantc> !map
| |
| 02:32 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'map', but I do know about these similar topics: 'worldmap'
| |
| 02:32 | <vagrantc> !worldmap | echo maldridge
| |
| 02:32 | <ltsp> maldridge worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
| |
| 02:32 | <maldridge> vagrantc: I worked on debian for a few years, I wouldn't recommend that as a first time project to anyone, way too much paperwork to navigate
| |
| 02:33 | * gehidore will add his story once the system is in place and used daily | |
| 02:33 | * vagrantc has been involved in debian for even longer | |
| 02:33 | <maldridge> I'll add an entry as soon as I can debug this nbd problem
| |
| 02:34 | <vagrantc> maldridge: i find debian has a very low barrier to entry ... i got involved by sending a few emails to the bug tracking system...
| |
| 02:34 | <maldridge> I enjoyed debian, but I didn't want to follow torwards systemd
| |
| 02:34 | vagrantc: I'm thinking for things that are roadmap level things
| |
| 02:34 | AlexPortable has left IRC (AlexPortable!uid7568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emwaqmyogwnokblj, Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | |
| 02:34 | <maldridge> like I know some people that would be happy to help with the pamssh option, but don't like really working with the politics of things
| |
| 02:35 | <vagrantc> politics?
| |
| 02:35 | <maldridge> you know, people arguing over large changes
| |
| 02:35 | <vagrantc> ok.
| |
| 02:36 | * vagrantc finds the vast majority of politics in debian are people submitting patches, bug reports, committing code and sharing ideas | |
| 02:36 | <vagrantc> people get too hung up on the disagreements to see the massive-scale cooperation
| |
| 02:36 | <maldridge> I tend to find that as the type of linux user in my age bracket, willing to write decent quality code, not willing to work through disputes of design choices
| |
| 02:36 | <vagrantc> disputes are everywhere, just depends on how transparent those disputes are
| |
| 02:37 | <maldridge> yeah, I think my first step is going to try and break the perception that linux can't do cool stuff, which is part of why I'm trying to get steam running inside ltsp
| |
| 02:37 | <vagrantc> if it works on a desktop, it shouldn't be hard to do as a fat client
| |
| 02:38 | <maldridge> then work through the, this is how projects work
| |
| 02:38 | I'm having to be sneaky so it isn't trying to download the games for every workstation
| |
| 02:38 | basically the games exist on a COW filesystem that the client stubbornly refuses to mount
| |
| 02:40 | clients complain "Cannot open NBD, no such file or directory"
| |
| 02:40 | <vagrantc> what distro?
| |
| 02:40 | <maldridge> ubuntu in this setup
| |
| 02:41 | I've checked and its definitly got the module loaded
| |
| 02:41 | <vagrantc> is dhcp telling it the correct server to use, or has it passed that on the commandline?
| |
| 02:42 | <maldridge> so it gets all the way up to an ldm session, this is for a second nbd volume I'm trying to mount
| |
| 02:44 | <vagrantc> ah.
| |
| 02:44 | so LTSP's working fine, you're just trying to mount another filesystem?
| |
| 02:44 | <maldridge> on the server I get a "read failed, bad file descriptor" right after it tries to create the map/diff for the second fs
| |
| 02:45 | yes, that's correct
| |
| 02:45 | <vagrantc> so are the device nodes present in /dev/nbd* ?
| |
| 02:45 | and what are the nbd-client arguments?
| |
| 02:45 | <maldridge> yes, there is a /dev/nbd1
| |
| 02:46 | <vagrantc> /dev/nbd1 is often used for swap in LTSP
| |
| 02:46 | <maldridge> nbd-client -N /opt/games 192.168.1.2 nbd1
| |
| 02:46 | ah, so I should pick a higher numbered one?
| |
| 02:47 | <vagrantc> maybe
| |
| 02:47 | you may need to specify the full path ... e.g. /dev/nbd2
| |
| 02:48 | <maldridge> that would seem to have done it
| |
| 02:48 | I forgot about the swap file
| |
| 02:49 | <vagrantc> all the examples in the manpage use the full path
| |
| 02:49 | * vagrantc goes back to reading books | |
| 02:49 | <maldridge> yeah, using /dev/nbd1 complains about writing to a closed socket, but /dev/nbd2 works
| |
| 02:52 | okay, so I can mount it once the machine is up, but it won't mount during boot
| |
| 03:47 | cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | |
| 03:53 | cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) | |
| 03:58 | <maldridge> do fat filesystems save the log for boot time mounts anywhere?
| |
| 03:58 | s/filesystems/clients
| |
| 04:06 | so I have narrowed it down to it always failing to mount during boot, but then not once the system comes up
| |
| 05:01 | <work_alkisg> are you using dns?
| |
| 05:01 | or the server ip?
| |
| 05:03 | <maldridge> ip
| |
| 05:03 | should I use DNS?
| |
| 05:27 | it looks like they get half way through mounting because if I try to use the device later, it complains its already attached
| |
| 05:30 | found it, I'm pretty sure that the FSTAB entry is being read before the INIT steps complete
| |
| 07:12 | does the lts.conf file support include statemends
| |
| 07:13 | *statements
| |
| 07:14 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 07:18 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | |
| 07:32 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 07:38 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Ping timeout: 248 seconds) | |
| 07:53 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 07:59 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | |
| 08:04 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 08:21 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 08:30 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Quit: leaving) | |
| 08:35 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 08:56 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | |
| 09:19 | ricotz has joined IRC (ricotz!~rico@ubuntu/member/ricotz) | |
| 09:49 | telex has left IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 09:50 | telex has joined IRC (telex!teletype@freeshell.de) | |
| 09:53 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 09:58 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| 10:33 | ogra_ has left IRC (ogra_!~ogra_@p5098ed03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de, Ping timeout: 252 seconds) | |
| 10:34 | ogra_ has joined IRC (ogra_!~ogra_@p5098ed03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | |
| 10:42 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44) | |
| 10:59 | cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| 11:01 | cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) | |
| 11:37 | cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 250 seconds) | |
| 11:37 | cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) | |
| 11:53 | cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 12:01 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@2.29.16.44, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 13:39 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-21-1.dab.02.net) | |
| 13:51 | adrianorg has left IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@179.187.29.137.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br, Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| 13:53 | adrianorg has joined IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@179.183.71.11) | |
| 14:12 | gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-21-1.dab.02.net, Ping timeout: 252 seconds) | |
| 14:33 | gdi2k has joined IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@203.177.248.238) | |
| 15:24 | vervelak has left IRC (vervelak!~vervelak@139.91.248.3, Quit: leaving) | |
| 15:25 | vervelak has joined IRC (vervelak!~vervelak@139.91.248.3) | |
| 15:27 | vervelak has left IRC (vervelak!~vervelak@139.91.248.3, Client Quit) | |
| 15:28 | vervelak has joined IRC (vervelak!~vervelak@139.91.248.3) | |
| 16:03 | khildin has joined IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-62-235-40-152.dial.scarlet.be) | |
| 17:07 | khildin has left IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-62-235-40-152.dial.scarlet.be, Ping timeout: 248 seconds) | |
| 17:08 | andygraybeal has left IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h104.60.88.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net, Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | |
| 17:53 | nahoskins has left IRC (nahoskins!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76, Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| 18:04 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc) | |
| 19:25 | lee_ is now known as lee | |
| 19:51 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | |
| 20:07 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc) | |
| 20:07 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Client Quit) | |
| 20:11 | ricotz has left IRC (ricotz!~rico@ubuntu/member/ricotz, Quit: Ex-Chat) | |
| 20:26 | telex has left IRC (telex!teletype@freeshell.de, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 20:28 | telex has joined IRC (telex!teletype@freeshell.de) | |
| 21:36 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc) | |
| 22:09 | gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-184-75-156.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) | |