IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 13 October 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:21 | <jomonto> hello - new to IRC, how to I log in ? command line...?
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| 01:23 | <johnny> you're logged in now..
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| 01:24 | <jomo> im trying to verify my nickname - and nickserv tells me that i need to be logged in first
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| 01:26 | <johnny> then /msg NICKSERV HELP
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| 01:26 | you want register and identify
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| 05:48 | <petre> warren, ping
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| 05:49 | <nubae> !docs
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| 05:49 | <ltspbot> nubae: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 05:53 | * ogra arghs .... | |
| 05:53 | <ogra> warren, does FC10 use fusa for logout as well ?
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| 05:53 | thats so broken by design, sigh
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| 06:25 | <stgraber> ogra: ping
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| 06:25 | ogra: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/italc/
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| 06:25 | <ogra> stgraber, yes, yes, i havent forgotten about you
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| 06:26 | just trying to fix the fusa disaster
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| 06:26 | <stgraber> hehe, ok, good luck :)
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| 06:26 | <ogra> well, two out of three issues are done, but i have no clue how to make the logout work
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| 06:27 | fusa seems to do it different to gnome-session
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| 06:44 | <stgraber> ogra: did you also make it not crash when gdm isn't started ?
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| 06:44 | ogra: I filed a bug about that a week or two ago
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| 06:46 | <ogra> stgraber, no, i work on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/282613 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/282610 and most critical on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/282595
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| 07:02 | <stgraber> ogra: if you have time: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fast-user-switch-applet/+bug/275031 :)
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| 07:02 | it's sort of a problem with clustered LTSP as we don't enable GDM server-side
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| 07:02 | (why would you enable gdm on something that doesn't even have a display)
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| 07:02 | <ogra> well, i guess that would need significant design changes to fusa
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| 07:02 | it relies on the gdm socket
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| 07:03 | disabling the applet is kind of wonky since it it the default logout item in the panel now
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| 07:03 | *it is
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| 07:04 | <stgraber> hmm, even with the LTSP changes you're doing ? if you can make it work for thin clients (as in disable almost all features), I don't see why it'd still need the gdm socket
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| 07:04 | for now, we just disable it and add our own menu entries to trigger remote shutdown/reboot (localapp+sudo) and the logout
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| 07:12 | <ogra> right, but we cant fiddle with the default applets in standard ltsp
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| 07:12 | though we start gdm by default anyway there
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| 07:14 | <stgraber> yeah, I'll need to do a desktop package for gnome and kde for our customers, I'll just add the gconf thing to disable fusa in there.
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| 07:15 | we should really work to have it integrated with the localapps in Jaunty, that'd rock
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| 07:15 | <ogra> yeah, indeed
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| 07:15 | but tat will require a lot bigger patches
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| 07:16 | currently i can easily add an if statement that checks for LTSP_CLIENT and dis/enables parts of the UI thats not very intrusive
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| 07:17 | and you would have to run localapps by default regardless if the sysadmin has chosen to, else you would break desktop pieces
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| 07:17 | <stgraber> right
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| 07:18 | btw, are you also fixing the "System -> Shut Down" option ? standard logout works fine and user switching is disabled but I still see the shutdown and reboot options there :(
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| 07:18 | I'm not sure if that part is shared with FUSA (I'm getting a bit confused about the current session management stuff in gnome)
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| 07:18 | <ogra> its not
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| 07:18 | i'm just patching gnome-panel to hide it
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| 07:19 | (the shutdown at least)
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| 07:21 | <stgraber> ok, that's all I need :)
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| 07:28 | <stgraber> ogra: I'm off for a meeting, please think of iTalc (the sooner it's in the more feedback I get, if any ...) :) thanks and good luck with fusa+gnome-panel
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| 07:28 | <ogra> thanks
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| 07:28 | i will care for italc asap
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| 07:58 | <warren> ogra: what is fusa?
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| 07:58 | <ogra> fast-user-switch-aplet
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| 07:58 | *applet
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| 07:59 | we use it as default logout dialog in ubuntu now
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| 07:59 | * ogra is writing patches like mad | |
| 07:59 | <warren> I don't know, i'll ask
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| 07:59 | * lejo_ recommends ogra diff ;-) | |
| 07:59 | <ogra> i didnt notice how much breaks with the new logout dialogs
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| 07:59 | <warren> what kind of break?
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| 08:00 | didn't you already release intrepid?
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| 08:00 | <ogra> warren, you might want https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/282669 in fedors
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| 08:00 | *fedora
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| 08:00 | intrepid reelases on 30th
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| 08:00 | <warren> oh
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| 08:00 | <ogra> thats why i said to hold back your ldm UI changes until after :)
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| 08:00 | debian might not release before jan.
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| 08:01 | though they aim for dec. i read
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| 08:02 | warren, how big to you thnk the chances are to get the LTSP_CLIENT changes upstream ... lest time i tried (which was 2 years ago) they didnt find them intresting since only debian and ubuntu had ltsp5 ... with fedora using it it might make sense to have all the changes applied in gnome upstream
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| 08:03 | <warren> what changes?
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| 08:03 | I haven't heard of these before.
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| 08:03 | there are an entire pile of these?
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| 08:04 | ugh, this is not a good time to surprise me with a pile of new patches
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| 08:04 | I have not used F10 yet
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| 08:05 | <ogra> warren, its a bunch ... mainly suppressing stuff if LTSP_CLIENT is set
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| 08:05 | i would have loved them upstream, but every time i asked for it they were to ubuntu specific
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| 08:06 | i told you about them before
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| 08:07 | <warren> our desktop people will be very against changing behavior for an env variable
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| 08:07 | <ogra> like suppressing eject in nautilus' context menu (i showed you that one a while ago) ... the logout/shutdown patch was aleays ubuntu specific as we had our own logout dialog untl now
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| 08:07 | <ogra> right
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| 08:07 | thats been what i was told
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| 08:07 | <warren> could you post a list of URL's to ltsp-developer?
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| 08:08 | <ogra> well, i dont mind to go on carrying them downstream, but it would be painful for you
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| 08:08 | and it really depends how you handle things like logout for example, if you dont use fusa many of the new ones wont affect you anyway, the one for gnome-panel above is small enough and might help you though
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| 08:09 | i'll have to look up the nautilus ones (and have to check if they even still work)
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| 08:09 | when do you release ?
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| 08:09 | * ogra thought after ubuntu | |
| 08:10 | <warren> only slightly after ubuntu
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| 08:10 | please make a list of URL to the list
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| 08:10 | <ogra> right, so you still have time
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| 08:10 | i cant promise i find the time before release i'll look at the nautilus one anyway though and can sned you a patch
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| 08:12 | <warren> how long were you using these downstream patches?
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| 08:12 | years?
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| 08:13 | <ogra> tuntil now they only were the nautilus one which upstream refused to take and the patch against the ubuntu specific logout dialog
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| 08:13 | and i told you abou the nautilus one before
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| 08:14 | if you dont use fusa (seems the logout stuff is all downstream changes) most of them wont be intresting for you
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| 08:14 | but the one i posted above will
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| 08:14 | i also doubt fedora has a guest login by default
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| 08:15 | <warren> we do have the concept of guest login
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| 08:15 | not by default
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| 08:15 | and it uses selinux for isolation
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| 08:16 | I don't know how it works
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| 08:16 | <ogra> ah, well, outs doesnt afauk
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| 08:16 | *ours
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| 08:16 | it uses a tmpfs aufs mount for /home afaik
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| 08:16 | and its in gdm by default
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| 08:16 | fusa is patched downstream to offer a switch which breaks in ltsp ... but i dont think that affects you
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| 08:17 | same goes for shutdown and reboot in fusa, both are downstream changes in ubuntu, wont affect you
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| 08:18 | gnome-power-manager is intresting for you, but i showed you that one before as well
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| 08:18 | (suppress suspend/hibernate by defult in ltsp)
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| 08:19 | anyway, need to go back to fusa hacking
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| 08:28 | <pscheie> warren, can we incorporate the changes to the README that Patrice suggested and still make your spin?
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| 08:28 | warren, further, should all the changes suggested happen?
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| 08:29 | e.g., I'm not sure I agree with making its focus more about the enabling the bridging than about getting LTSP working
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| 08:31 | <warren> pscheie: where is patrice's usggestions?
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| 08:32 | pscheie: I'm completely out of time, although I didn't test it yet, testing it now
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| 08:32 | if testing shows some big problem then I have to respin
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| 08:32 | pscheie: the ONLY hard part about the readme is setting up the bridge
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| 08:32 | <pscheie> warren, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=464430
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| 08:33 | right, and while it is arguably largely about getting the bridge working, in my mind its purpose is to enable people to test out ltsp
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| 08:34 | <warren> pscheie: I suppose it isn't explained clearly enough that is the purpose of that document
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| 08:34 | <pscheie> plus, he doesn't like the line about deleting the README link from /etc/skel
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| 08:34 | <warren> I didn't like that part either.
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| 08:34 | <pscheie> rpm -e instead?
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| 08:35 | I don't like that because it also removes it for the person who just downloaded it and is trying it out.
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| 08:36 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "power-manager patch for warren" (25 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/30
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| 08:37 | <ogra> in case you are intrested
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| 08:37 | <warren> ogra: heh, this is the bug I was looking at yesterday.
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| 08:37 | pscheie: then argue that point
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| 08:37 | <ogra> trivial fix
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| 08:38 | if you dont adjust the text its two lines only
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| 08:39 | <pscheie> warren, ok; I'm just unclear as to the priority for *today* since you're trying to get a spin out the door
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| 08:39 | seems making doc changes at this point would be pointless
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| 08:39 | but worth doing for later
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| 08:40 | <gate_keeper_> guys, do u have any idea what can cause huge lo traffic on ltsp ubuntu-server
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| 08:40 | with 1 client connected there's about 10Mbit's of traffic on lo
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| 08:40 | almost identical with the interface used for the internal network
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| 08:41 | sending traffic all the time from 127.0.0.1 to 127.0.0.1 on ports from 6011 to 6047
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| 08:41 | x11
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| 08:41 | i don't think, that that's normal ....
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| 08:43 | <warren> pscheie: discuss it over the next week or so
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| 08:45 | <pscheie> that works for me
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| 09:30 | <ogra> nubae, USE_NBD_SWAP is a 4.x option while NBD_SWAP is a 5.x one
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| 09:31 | not sure we kept any backwards compatibility for that specific option (we probably should if we dont though)
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| 09:32 | <nubae> is that in the docs?
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| 09:33 | <ogra> NBD_SWAP shuld be
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| 09:34 | <nubae> is there a way for lts.conf to throw back errors for options that dont exist or are wrong?
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| 09:35 | <ogra> not really
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| 09:35 | that would have to be implemented in getltscfg which didnt change since ltsp 3.x
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| 09:35 | <nubae> the older it gets the less it should change? :p
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| 09:36 | <ogra> no, but an option checker will slow it down
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| 09:36 | we could add something like visudo server side
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| 09:36 | <nubae> well one could turn it on or off
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> ogra, latest updates from ldm & translations, tested right now with a fully updated chroot: (1) I still don't see Greek in ldm, (2) ldm.mo *is* on the chroot for all of my installed locales, (3) gettext -d ldm 'Username' on the client does return the greek translation. I'm a fair C programmer but new to Linux, do you have any hints as for where to look to debug this? Can I run ldm in the server to check?
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| 10:26 | (I mean the greeter)
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| 10:27 | <ogra> no idea, i didnt touch the greeter for over a year, it used to work though
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| 10:27 | <alkisg> ok... I'll have a look, even just for the experience.
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| 10:29 | <alkisg> (ldm.mo was automatically copied on the chroot, I didn't manually copy it, so you don't have to check for packaging errors).
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| 10:38 | Another bug is that the new gnome applet that displays both the user name and the user status (away, busy etc) has some options like logout, shutdown but most of them do nothing on the ltsp clients, even the logout doesn't work. Only "lock screen" works. And the "guest session" again just locks the screen.
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| 10:39 | <ogra> alkisg, yes, i'm p to my ears in patching that stuff atm
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| 10:39 | *up
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> ouch, I'd better shut up then! :)
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| 10:40 | * ogra just uploaded a patch to gnome-panel to hide shutdown | |
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| 10:41 | <ogra> patches for the applet to hide the guest session, shutdown and reboot are uploaded as well and wait for the maintainer to accept them and i'm currently in a heavy discussion with him about the logout piece
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| 10:41 | since that relies on gdm which we dont use in ltsp
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| 10:41 | <alkisg> The system > logout works though
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| 10:41 | Ah, I see, his code needs ltsp awareness
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| 10:42 | <nubae> ogra: thought that was already present in hardy
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| 10:42 | <ogra> nope
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| 10:42 | hardy used the custom ubuntu dialog and fusa ddnt have logout/shutdown/reboot
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| 10:42 | <nubae> ah, k thats it
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| 10:43 | <ogra> with the upstream change of splitting the logout int two dialogs ubuntu decided to rather go with a patched fusa applet
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| 10:44 | <warren> pscheie: tried the latest ldm build? there is a weird cosmetic issue
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| 10:44 | pscheie: bottom of the screen has a line of light blue that doesn't match the rest of the background
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| 10:44 | pscheie: it is either an artwork bug, or a ldm bu
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| 10:44 | bug
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| 10:45 | <ogra> warren, btw i have focus in the input field by defaults
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| 10:45 | <pscheie> no, I haven't yet, going to try tonight...or perhaps not if you've already found a bug
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| 10:45 | <warren> ogra: that was fixed by ryan52
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| 10:45 | ogra: it was broken by ryan52
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| 10:45 | <ogra> warren, no
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| 10:45 | <warren> ogra: the broken didn't hit upstream
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| 10:45 | <ogra> i didnt update ldm since thursday or so
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| 10:46 | ah
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| 10:46 | it was fedora sepcific, i see :)
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> ogra, success!!! I killed the ldm script, I exported TEXTDOMAIN=ldm and TEXTDOMAINDIR=/usr/share/locale, then run the ldm script and then... Greek at last!!! :D
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| 10:56 | <ogra> ok, so we need these two variables added ?
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| 10:57 | <alkisg> I think so, I also see them on the ltsp-build-client script
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| 10:58 | But I think it would be better if the ldm code called the low level function (gnu_texttext_selecttextdomain or what's its name). Anyway, if it works this way, it's ok by me!!! :)
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| 11:00 | <ogra> well, i need a proper fix, but the loout stuff is hoging my day today
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| 11:00 | *hogging
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| 11:01 | <alkisg> ogra, I think gnu gettext looks (1) for previous C function calls that selected a text domain, or (2) at the environment variables TEXTDOMAIN etc. So it *is* a proper fix, just not a C-based one... :P
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| 11:37 | <alkisg> ogra, I'm searching for a proper fix. I inserted a "/bin/sh" in the ldm script just before it calls the ldm program. And the problem is that there's no LANG environment variable.
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| 11:38 | (even though LANG is properly defined if I logon to the client)
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| 11:59 | <johnny> alkisg, what is /etc/locales or whatever it is on ubuntu say?
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| 11:59 | <ogra> /etc/default/locales
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| 12:00 | *locale
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| 12:00 | <alkisg> johnny, the problem is in the init scripts. If I run ldm after logging in, it runs OK. But some environment variables are missing when the ldm script is called in the boot process...
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| 12:01 | The problem is that I don't know enough about the linux boot process to debug this! Still trying, though...
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| 12:02 | There isn't any /etc/default/locale!!!
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| 12:02 | johnny, I'll put it there manually and test again, thanks!
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| 12:09 | Failure... :( I put it there but ldm still shows English...
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| 12:11 | <ogra> did you copy the one from your server into the chroot ?
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| 12:11 | <alkisg> ogra, yes
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| 12:13 | <ogra> alkisg, oh, sorry i was wrong it sould be /etc/environment
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| 12:13 | thats parsed on boot
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| 12:13 | <johnny> sbalneav, http://who-t.blogspot.com/2008/10/device-properties-have-landed.html
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| 12:14 | <ogra> alkisg, ah, and i got the error, the initscript supposed to parse it isnt enabled in ltsp-build-client
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> file /etc/environment was OK in the chroot, same as in the server
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| 12:14 | heh, thanks, you saved me hours of debugging! :)
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| 12:14 | which one is it?
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| 12:16 | <ogra> cdonsole-screen.sh needs to be added to RCS_WHITELIST in the 000-basic-configuration plugin
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| 12:17 | so /etc/rcS.d/S90console-screen.sh persists
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| 12:17 | that will set locale, console keymap and console font correctly
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| 12:17 | i'll try a build with that fix later today
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> wow, 3 things fixed!!! :) Let me try it...
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| 12:17 | ogra, thanks a lot!
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| 12:17 | <ogra> well, lets see if it helps on the gui level as well
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> ogra, (because ltsp-client takes a lot of time so I'd better get it right on the first time), the script name is console-screen.kbd.sh ?
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| 12:22 | /ltsp-client/ltsp-build-client
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| 12:22 | <ogra> no
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| 12:22 | S90console-screen.sh
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> I couldn't find console-screen.sh!
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| 12:22 | ah, ok
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| 12:22 | <ogra> probably .kbd too, i will have to check that
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> So, RCS_WHITELIST="console-screen.kbd.sh mountkernfs.sh mountdevsubfs.sh hostname.sh loopback udev module-init-tools procps.sh etc-setserial ltsp-client-setup setserial S90console-screen.sh"
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| 12:23 | * ogra goes preparing dinner ... back later | |
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| 13:30 | <ogra> alkisg, without S90
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| 13:30 | <alkisg> ogra, thanks, I'll look at it in a little while, I got sth to do right now.
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| 13:30 | * ogra too :) | |
| 13:30 | <ogra> bt just taking a break from the kitchen
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| 13:37 | <Lns> Hey all - how can I remove "language" and "sessions" from the LDM Options menu?
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| 13:39 | <stgraber> ogra: italc ? :)
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| 13:51 | <warren> pscheie: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/rc1/i686/
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| 13:53 | pscheie: I have comments on your announcement text
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| 13:54 | pscheie: but I have to drive now
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| 13:54 | bbl
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> ogra, no luck. I put RCS_WHITELIST="console-screen.kbd.sh mountkernfs.sh mountdevsubfs.sh hostname.sh loopback udev module-init-tools procps.sh etc-setserial ltsp-client-setup setserial console-screen.sh" and run ltsp-build-client, but nothing changed. /etc/default/locale again doesn't exist.
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| 14:58 | <ogra> as i said above you want /etc/environment
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> yeah, but /etc/environment was OK from the beginning, even from hardy
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| 14:59 | <ogra> right but its settings arent applied
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> I see... but still no Greek on ldm, and no correct fonts on console
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| 15:00 | I didn't see any change...
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| 15:01 | I'll try again tomorrow. G'night! :)
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: worst case, try setting LANG in lts.conf
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| 15:04 | i applied a patch to the debian packaging for ldm that actually sources /etc/default/locale from ldm ... if ubuntu's is in /etc/environment, might want a correlary patch
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| 15:04 | from the ldm screen script, that is
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I'll try tomorrow, because lts.conf doesn't get transferred in virtualbox (the binary tftp thing we talked some months ago)
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 15:05 | alkisg: it's been a while, but the greek translation was definitely working with debian sid
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc, so if I copy /etc/environment to /etc/default/locale you think it might work?
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no, i don't think ubuntu has that patch
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I did get it to work in intrepid, by running ldm from the command line instead of the init scripts
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: patch the screen script to source /etc/environment...
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> ok, that's simple enough even for me! :) I'll try, thanks
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| 15:07 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, console-setup.sh should set it
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| 15:07 | but i dont actually have the time to look at ldm now
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| 15:07 | <stgraber> ogra: have you been able to fix gnome-panel and fusa ?
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| 15:07 | <ogra> stgraber, still discussing teh final fix for logout with tedg :/
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| 15:07 | but i'm just signng italc while we talk
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| 15:08 | i pointed him to your bug again
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| 15:08 | but he didnt react
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| 15:09 | <ogra> italc uploaded
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| 15:09 | <stgraber> ogra: cool
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| 15:30 | <MRH2> hi local apps looks interesting but am i right in thinking that it is very much beta? In particular for firefox - audio (flash videos for example) and printing
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| 15:31 | <johnny> yes
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| 15:31 | no release includes it yet
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| 15:31 | the next ubuntu will
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| 15:31 | but it will still require some manual steps
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| 15:31 | same on fedora
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| 15:32 | <MRH2> ok cool
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| 15:32 | <--wondering how audio is going to work
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| 15:32 | <ogra> next debian too
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| 15:32 | but only the infrastructure yet
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| 15:32 | you need to do a lot manual work
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| 15:33 | <johnny> audio works automatically i imagine
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| 15:33 | <ogra> audio will work through the network like it does from the server to the client but simply use localhost (i.e. the lo interface)
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| 15:33 | <johnny> ogra? alot of manual work?
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| 15:33 | i thought it was twiddling with .desktop files
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| 15:33 | <ogra> it doesnt yet
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| 15:34 | <johnny> i mean.. that is the manual work required
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| 15:34 | <ogra> you need to twiddle atm
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| 15:34 | yeah
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| 15:34 | <johnny> what else?
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| 15:34 | <ogra> wll, and make sure the app is installed in the image/chroot/nfs-mount/whatever-your-distro-uses
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| 15:34 | and all the bits and pieces your users might want
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| 15:35 | <johnny> nfs ? i thought it was sshfs?
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| 15:35 | <MRH2> yeah but the client needs it in the image
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| 15:35 | <johnny> MRH2, sshfs is going to be used iirc
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| 15:35 | <main2frame> hi...has anybody had any experience with VXL terminals? www.vxl.net
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| 15:36 | <ogra> johnny, nfs-mount == chroot
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| 15:36 | "make sure the app is installed in the nfs-mount"
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| 15:37 | <johnny> ubuntu doesn't use nfs.. you're confusing me :)
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| 15:37 | i thought i'd just sshfs it :)
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| 15:37 | <ogra> sshfs is used for the homedir
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| 15:37 | <johnny> so.. will it automatically mount the nfs ?
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| 15:37 | if you turn on localdev ?
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| 15:38 | <ogra> no
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| 15:38 | sshfs
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| 15:38 | <johnny> if all i use is firefox and flash.. how bad would it be to just put it in the nbd ?
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| 15:38 | <ogra> or nfs
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| 15:38 | :P
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| 15:38 | <MRH2> lol
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| 15:38 | <ogra> thats what you have to do, yes
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| 15:38 | you install firefox in your nbd image *or your nfs export*
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| 15:40 | if you log in and localapps are enabled, ldm will do a sshfs mount of your homedir from the server
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| 15:42 | <MRH2> so audio will access local device taking precedence over audio coming from the server - assume audio volume on the desktop won't work (which is ok I suppose)
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| 15:42 | audio controls on the desktop
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| 15:42 | <ogra> no, pulse is able to assemble multiple streams
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| 15:43 | the volume contol of eh desktop attaches to the pulse server on the client, so you adjust the master volume of the clinet pulseaudio, no matter where the audio stream comes from
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| 15:43 | <MRH2> that's good stuff
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| 15:45 | <MRH2> how is printing going to work?
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| 15:45 | <ogra> yu will need to install cups in the chroot
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| 15:45 | <Gadi> MRH2: you install cups in the chroot and it will be a client to the server
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| 15:46 | <ogra> which is a silly setup :P
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| 15:46 | lots of room for improvement here
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| 15:46 | <Gadi> its only silly if you have time to devote to changing it :P
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| 15:47 | <ogra> i.e. you wouldnt want your printjobs being shoved through the net and back if your printer runs locally on the same client
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| 15:47 | <Gadi> I would if it meant I could spool
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| 15:47 | :)
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| 15:47 | <ogra> pfft, spooling is overrated
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| 15:47 | <Gadi> lol
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| 15:47 | anyway, gotta run
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| 15:47 | <ogra> :)
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| 15:47 | <Gadi> cheers
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| 15:47 | <ogra> ciao
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| 15:48 | <MRH2> thnks
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| 15:49 | <MRH2> ok i think i get how that would work in practice
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| 15:49 | it doesn;t sound that far off being good to go
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| 15:50 | <ogra> well, in the proper implementation you just install firefox in the chroot and are done, your users will automatically get the local FF
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| 15:50 | without any manual fiddling, .desktop file creation and so on
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| 15:51 | its 80% there
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| 15:52 | but the last 20% make it cool ;)
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| 15:52 | <MRH2> :)
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| 15:53 | local apps like this are v cool even if you have to update your chroot more often
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| 15:55 | thanks ogra I have to get going now
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| 15:55 | <ogra> ciao
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| 17:25 | <ogra> vagrantc, for line in $(cat /etc/environment); do export $line;done ... how about that for ldm's screen.d file ?
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> ogra: you'd have to do a while read trick ...
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| 17:26 | <ogra> why is that ?
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> ogra: but debian doesn't really use /etc/environment
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| 17:26 | <ogra> oh
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| 17:27 | <vagrantc> ogra: there's no spaces in the format anywhere?
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| 17:27 | <ogra> ogra@osiris:~/Devel/packages$ for line in $(cat /etc/environment); do echo $line;done
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| 17:27 | PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games"
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| 17:27 | LANGUAGE="de_DE:de:en_GB:en"
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| 17:27 | LANG="de_DE.UTF-8"
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| 17:28 | shoudl work with export
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| 17:28 | <vagrantc> sure.
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| 17:28 | as long as there's no possibility of spaces.
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| 17:28 | <ogra> we could parse /etc/default/locale first
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| 17:28 | and then /etc/environment
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| 17:29 | so /etc/environment would override if the LANG and LANGUAGE vals are in there
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> ogra: i have a patch to source /etc/default/locale
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| 17:29 | <ogra> warren, where does fedora set LANG ?
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> ogra: haven't applied upstream because it probably shouldn't have to be done.
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| 17:29 | <ogra> well, to get LANG set we need to do something
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> ogra: and it probably should be done in the meta-screen script.
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| 17:30 | rather than each individual screen script
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| 17:30 | <ogra> or in the initscript
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| 17:30 | ltsp-client-setup seems appropriate
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| 17:42 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, looking at the code of gdm and kdm they both source /etc/environment on thier own
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| 17:42 | *their
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| 17:42 | in the initscript
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| 17:45 | <vagrantc> ogra: we'd have to run it from ltsp-(client)core
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| 17:45 | er, source it
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| 17:45 | <ogra> why not from setup ?
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| 17:45 | <vagrantc> because the screen scripts aren't run there? :P
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| 17:46 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "gdm initscript snippet" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/31
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| 17:46 | <ogra> seems thats what gdm in ubuntu/debian does
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| 17:46 | <ogra> but well, if it helps, sourceing from -core is fine with me
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> ogra: seems reasonable to me.
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| 17:46 | although i'd use -f instead of -r
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| 17:47 | <ogra> i'd just like to know where fedora differs
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| 17:47 | but -f doesnt mean you can read it
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| 17:47 | <vagrantc> fedora doesn't even really run it as an initscript
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| 17:48 | i suppose not ...
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| 17:48 | but -r doesn't work if it's a directory
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| 17:48 | <johnny> fedora doesn't use ltsp-client-core or setup. they use ltsp-client-launch
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| 17:48 | * ogra prefers -r | |
| 17:49 | <vagrantc> ogra: though, root should be able to read everything
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| 17:49 | initscripts are run as root
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| 17:49 | <ogra> johnny, well, ubuntu currently uses its own script anyway, but i suppose stgraber wants to change that in the future
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| 17:49 | hm, valid point
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| 17:49 | <nubae> Lns: kudos on ubuntu ltsp wiki... looks great now
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| 17:50 | <johnny> the only people who uses an unmodified ltsp-client-setup or core is.. guess who..
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| 17:50 | <Lns> nubae: hey thanks
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| 17:50 | <johnny> opensuse!
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| 17:50 | <ogra> qqq
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| 17:50 | <cliebow> nubae, got a url?
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| 17:50 | <ogra> grrr
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| 17:50 | <Lns> I'm definitely not done with it
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| 17:50 | * ogra curses compiz focus handling | |
| 17:50 | <nubae> http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 17:50 | <cliebow> ;-
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| 17:50 | <ogra> GEEZ !
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| 17:51 | you added pics !
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| 17:51 | <cliebow> heh
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| 17:51 | <ogra> sweet
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| 17:51 | * Lns wishes he knew how to center pics in the wiki | |
| 17:51 | <vagrantc> actually, my last upload to debian uses ltsp-client-* init scripts unmodified
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| 17:52 | <cliebow> gotta love the lil penguins
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| 17:52 | <Lns> I'm working on putting standard "tags" at the top of each page to distinguish what version it's intended for
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| 17:52 | <nubae> hehe and the one big one
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| 17:52 | <Lns> and then a 'template' type page to cut/paste for adding new pages
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| 17:52 | I just hope that penguin wasn't copyrighted ;)
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| 17:52 | <ogra> Lns, could you put QuickInstall at the very top ? apart from that i'm thrilled
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| 17:52 | <Lns> ogra: np
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| 17:52 | <ogra> :D
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| 17:52 | <Lns> thanks
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| 17:53 | <nubae> its the best looking wiki I've seen on ubuntu yet...
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| 17:53 | <ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5 might also be worth a link
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| 17:54 | <Lns> nubae: well like i said i'm not done yet =)
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| 17:54 | ogra: k
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| 17:54 | <ogra> Lns, something like "ltsp5 history"
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| 17:55 | ther must also be a MueCow doc somewhere on th ltsp wiki decribing the basics
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| 17:55 | * ogra is sad the story about the name isnt logged anywhere | |
| 17:56 | <Lns> nubae: how's the IRC log going?
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| 17:56 | <ogra> but neither sbalneav nor jammcq have ever put that online i guess
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> there's a MueKow page, possibly even linked to from the Ltsp5 page
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| 17:57 | <nubae> well its up... I'm still waiting for the archived logs from sbalneav and then I can put those up to, but since the 9th everything is logged
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| 17:57 | <cliebow> where...
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| 17:57 | <warren> ogra: /etc/sysconfig/i18n LANG is set from there
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| 17:57 | <nubae> yeah I've seen that too
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| 17:57 | <Lns> nubae: nice
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| 17:57 | <warren> ogra: I don't know where it happens
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| 17:57 | <ogra> vagrantc, but without the naming story
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| 17:57 | <nubae> right
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| 17:57 | so enlighten us, what is the naming story?
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| 17:57 | <ogra> warren, well, sourcing it from the initscript might suffice if LANG is set there
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| 17:57 | <nubae> :D
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| 17:58 | * Lns sits down with some popcorn for the story | |
| 17:58 | <warren> ogra: from which script?
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| 17:59 | <ogra> warren, ltsp-client-core
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| 17:59 | which i just heard you dont use
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| 17:59 | warren, the idea was to put something like gdm has into the initscript that executes screen.d
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| 18:01 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "initscript proposal" (10 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/32
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| 18:01 | <ogra> warren, ^^^ something like that
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| 18:02 | but if you dont use the default initscript anyway we wont have to care i guess
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| 18:03 | <warren> yes, don't need to include my sysconfig path
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| 18:03 | I think it is already set by something else
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| 18:21 | <johnny> ogra, ask cyberorg
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| 18:21 | he uses the same
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| 18:21 | gentoo's init scripts are much different, so it wouldn't be much use to me
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| 18:22 | <ogra> johnny, to late, added it to ubuntus initscript already
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> ogra: i'd be happy to commit upstream ...
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| 18:25 | <Lns> ogra: how do you get notification for editing a wiki page?
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| 18:25 | I'd like to get added to the main page if possible
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| 18:27 | <ltsppbot> "gra" pasted "ubuntu initscript debdiff" (18 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/33
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| 18:27 | <ogra> bah
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| 18:27 | swallowed my o ... bad bot
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| 18:27 | ooo
| |
| 18:27 | o
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| 18:27 | <ogra> vagrantc, ^^
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> ogra: i'd actually put it above ltsp-init-common, just in case you get the freak setup where some terminals should be in one language and some in another
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| 18:28 | ogra: then they can be set from lts.conf
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| 18:28 | <ogra> well, its like tha in ubuntu now, people will be happy to have translations at all :P
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| 18:29 | do it better upstream and jaunty can pull that then
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| 18:29 | <vagrantc> ogra: sure. i'll commit upstream.
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| 18:29 | not *hugely* better, just tiny fixes :)
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| 18:29 | * ogra doesnt waste a version number :) | |
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| 18:29 | <ogra> *doesnt want to
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| 18:30 | i'm really starting to feel my 14h day
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| 18:30 | * vagrantc wonders when we'll run out of version numbers | |
| 18:30 | <ogra> at the 65535th version :)
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 18:31 | * ogra thinks dpkg uses int | |
| 18:40 | <ogra> gah
| |
| 18:40 | * ogra gets ldm translated, but not gtk | |
| 18:41 | <ogra> and i cant rely on the language packs being on the CD ... demned
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| 18:41 | *damned even
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| 19:08 | <stgraber> ogra: what's the result ? half-translated UI ?
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| 21:03 | <X0d_of_N0d> Does anyone know the minimum hardware requirements for an ltsp5 thin client? I know it's too low to care, but I'm doing a presentation on ltsp and I'm having trouble finding the info
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| 21:04 | I was expecting it would be higher than 4.2
| |
| 21:04 | ...
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| 21:26 | <monteslu> X0d_of_N0d, its a lot higher
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| 21:26 | though i can't tell you exactly what it is :)
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| 21:27 | <loather-work> depends on what your requirements for the client-side are
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| 21:27 | e.g. do you need sound, local devices, local applications?
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| 21:43 | <X0d_of_N0d> If I just wanted a basic dumb terminal
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| 21:44 | loather-work: any ideas?
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| 21:46 | <loather-work> basic dumb terminal with just X, 1280x1024 display?
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| 21:46 | you could get away with just about anything with a 16MB+ video adapter, 64-128MB RAM, and a garden variety pentium-class CPU.
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| 21:47 | ppc603 or 604 would be ok too.
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| 21:49 | <X0d_of_N0d> cool, thanx
| |
| 21:50 | ...is there by chance a web site I could cite, or are you a dev or something?
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| 21:50 | <johnny> the edubuntu handbook maybe?
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| 21:50 | or the new docs?
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| 21:50 | i don't know where the new docs are published
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| 21:51 | <loather-work> X0d_of_N0d: nah, jsut been doing this a very long time :p
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| 21:52 | <X0d_of_N0d> loather-work: cool, well thanks for the info
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| 21:53 | <loather-work> welcome. how much are you looking to spend on terminals?
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| 21:54 | <X0d_of_N0d> lol... I'm doing this to help other people. We've been running ltsp here for a few years (or so) now
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| 21:55 | My boss didn't really get the idea that we could go with dumb terminals...
| |
| 21:55 | so he went and ordered a bunch of $600 acer cubes... with core duos and stuff
| |
| 21:56 | yeah, stupid...
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> so you're trying to convince him to un-order them?
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| 21:57 | <X0d_of_N0d> I'm hoping will go with something like the disklessworkstations.com 1400 series
| |
| 21:57 | no, they've been ordered for a while, I don't care about here... I'm doing the presentation for my local lug
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| 22:04 | <loather-work> that reminds me. i need to call up disklessworkstations and bug them about an RMA.
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| 22:07 | <X0d_of_N0d> loather-work: you had problems?
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| 22:08 | <loather-work> when you have ~100 terminals, a few are bound to develop problems.
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| 22:08 | i have a bunch of 1220s
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| 22:08 | they don't like heat.
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| 22:08 | <X0d_of_N0d> oh, yeah...
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| 22:09 | <loather-work> it makes them less than ideal for a warehouse environment (where i have a ton of them installed)
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| 22:09 | <X0d_of_N0d> that's actually one of the place we were thinking about putting one or two... actually, on our manufacturing shop floor
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| 22:10 | * johnny compiles 2.6.27 kernel | |
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| 22:11 | <loather-work> the ones i've found that deal with heat well are the norhtec microclient sr.
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| 22:12 | added benefit that they mount directly to a 100mm vesa flat panel.
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| 22:13 | <X0d_of_N0d> yeah, our boss has some pretty crazy hardware requirements. he wants our thin clients to be able to use div with a res of 1600x1200
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| 22:14 | it's really easy to find something that supports reasonably good resolution, but finding dvi on a thin client that does that is a pain
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| 22:15 | hey, thanks for the info on the norhtec stuff, that's a pretty cool site
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| 22:15 | <loather-work> ah yeah
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| 22:16 | the 1400 is probably what you're looking for then
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| 22:17 | <X0d_of_N0d> that $85 box is pretty sweet... I didn't know you could still buy a 486
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| 22:19 | <stgraber> X0d_of_N0d: some atom based thing clients have a DVI port, we are also using some Wyse thin clients that have both VGA and DVI (but these are quite expensive)
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| 22:21 | <X0d_of_N0d> http://www.ciao.co.uk/AOpen_miniPC_MP945_VX__6486953
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| 22:22 | most of our systems are those
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| 22:23 | they work pretty well, we don't really have too many problems with them
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| 22:24 | but they're just WAY more than anyone needs, and WAY more expensive... and we'd really like to be fanless
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| 22:24 | etc
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| 22:24 | <loather-work> fanless is nice
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| 22:26 | <X0d_of_N0d> yeah
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| 22:26 | hey, thanks for all the help
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| 22:26 | <loather-work> no worries -- hopefully you can come up with a good system
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| 22:26 | let us know what you end up with
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| 22:27 | <X0d_of_N0d> yeah, I think I'm going to ask my boss to order one of the disklessworkstations
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