IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 20 April 2009 (all times are UTC)

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05:36	<NeonLicht> is there a way to stop virtual graphical consoles (CTR-ALT-F7, F8, F9, etc.) to pop up when they ge updated by the servers (mostly rdesktop conections to Windows boxes) they point to. It's annoying to my boss and co-workers to get a different "box" to show up while working on another one. I don't experience this problem myself, since I only use ldm to run on the LTSP server.
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06:28	<NeonLicht> Is there a way to stop virtual graphical consoles (CTR-ALT-F7, F8, F9, etc.) to pop up when they ge updated by the servers (mostly rdesktop conections to Windows boxes) they point to? It's annoying to my boss and co-workers to get a different "box" to show up while working on another one. I don't experience this problem myself, since I only use ldm to run on the LTSP server.
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08:30	<NeonLicht> Is there a way to stop virtual graphical consoles (CTR-ALT-F7, F8, F9, etc.) to pop up when they ge updated by the servers (mostly rdesktop conections to Windows boxes) they point to? It's annoying to my boss and co-workers to get a different "box" to show up while working on another one. I don't experience this problem myself, since I only use ldm to run on the LTSP server.
08:34	<Gadi> NeonLicht: write a wrapper script to rdesktop that runs it in a while loop, then edit the screen script to call your wrapper script
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08:36	<jammcq> good morning #ltsp
08:36	* ogra waves
08:36	<NeonLicht> thanks, Gadi
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09:23	<Blinny> Morning!
09:25	Much has been made of the increased hardware reqs. for going from LTSP4.2 to 5 - what about thin client requirements when upgrading from Hardy to Intrepid, or Jaunty? I haven't been able to find a definitive client spec requirements for these sorts of upgrades.
09:28	<NeonLicht> Gadi, is the while loop solution the only one?
09:29	<vagrantc> Blinny: shouldn't be huge...
09:33	<Gadi> NeonLicht: yup
09:33	WTS drops idle connections after a period of time
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09:33	<Gadi> which causes the rdesktop to exit
09:34	without a loop, X will exit
09:34	and respawn
09:34	and grab focus
09:34	hence your issue
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09:35	<NeonLicht> I see, Gadi, thanks
09:35	<alkisg> NeonLicht: there's a setting in the windows terminal server manager where you can specify that you don't want a timeout
09:35	<cyberorg> hi vagrantc Gadi et all :)
09:36	<NeonLicht> really, alkisg? that will make it, I think :-)
09:36	<alkisg> Can't remember where, but I'm 100% sure I've used that setting 1.5 years ago
09:36	<Gadi> alkisg: I dont think that's correct
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09:36	<Gadi> you can control the timeout of active sessions
09:36	but not the timeout of idling at the login screen
09:37	<vagrantc> cyberorg: hi
09:37	<NeonLicht> let see if I can find that, alkisg, since I'm not really familiar wth Windows anymore (I sopted using it on 1999)
09:37	<alkisg> Gadi, I've actually used that setting and didn't have disconnections anymore
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09:38	<Gadi> hmm... great tip if its true
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09:38	* Gadi waves to cyberorg
09:39	<lucy-> anyone still using LTSP 4.2
09:39	or have much knowledge about it
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09:40	<Gadi> lucy, please 'splain
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09:44	<Blinny> vagrantc: Thanks.
09:47	<ogra> Blinny, hardy to intrepid/jaunty should have dropped wrt client ram reqs
09:47	the kernel uses compcache by default for the latter two and adds virtual swapspace that way
09:48	a minimal setup without localdev, sound and localapps should actually work with less than 64M on them
09:49	for std. setups the same sizing as for hardy applies ...
09:49	for localapps setups it totally depends on what apps you use but i wouldnt start with less than 256M
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09:54	<chrisjrob> trying to get rdesktop working on ltsp5, does it still require screen scripts?
09:54	<NeonLicht> alkisg, do you remenber where this "windows terminal server manager" might be? Any clue for me to find it, pleae?
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09:55	<alkisg> NeonLicht: No, sorry, it's been a very long time since I've last used it.
09:55	<NeonLicht> ok, alkisg, thank you, anyways :-)
09:56	<vagrantc> chrisjrob: SCREEN_NN=rdesktop ... where NN is some number between 01-10, depending on your distro.
09:57	<NeonLicht> My boss is about to buy a PC and stop using his thin client and LTSP 'cause he's annoyed by that shit, haha
09:57	<Blinny> ogra: Sweet, thank you.
09:57	<chrisjrob> thanks vagrantc. we're using debian lenny. i had tried that and it just keeps flashing.
09:58	<Blinny> Nice work, all.
09:58	Any big known dangers in upgrading?
09:59	<vagrantc> chrisjrob: you also need to specify some rdesktop values, i think ... Gadi would know
10:00	<chrisjrob> thanks vagrantc, at least i know i'm doing the right thing - i just need to dig deeper!
10:01	<vagrantc> chrisjrob: for debian, i'd recommend SCREEN_07
10:01	<alkisg> NeonLicht, if you don't find it, remind me tomorrow, I think I have a windows 2008 server installation in a VM somewhere, I can look for it...
10:02	<vagrantc> chrisjrob: as 01-06 are still taken by the default gettys
10:02	<NeonLicht> I have no clue as where to find it, alkisg, I'm looking for it on a Win2003 server, but I cannot find anything which sems related to it
10:03	<alkisg> NeonLicht: in the administrative tools you should be able to find the terminal services manager, I think it's somewhere there.
10:04	<chrisjrob> vagrantc: i am using 07, which works fine on our etch server, but our new lenny server is proving more stubborn,
10:04	<NeonLicht> ok, alkisg, I find that one, but I cannot find any time out option anywere there
10:05	<alkisg> OK, will look tomorrow.
10:06	<vagrantc> chrisjrob: you have RDP_SERVER set?
10:06	<NeonLicht> thanks a lot, alkisg, I hope I can avoid this anoying behaviour before people go back to Windows PCs here :(
10:07	<chrisjrob> vagrantc: i've tried with and without, currently without - am now re-adding plus RDP_OPTIONS
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10:08	<alkisg> NeonLicht: well a loop in a script like Gadi told you will surely fix the problem. I'll look for the option, but not today, I'm uploading something to my PPA for the first time...
10:09	<NeonLicht> ok, alkisg, thanks a lot... I'll try to see if I can understand the loop thing and get it done (I'm not a coder) for now
10:09	<chrisjrob> vagrantc: i must be mistyped previously, as it's working now fine. sorry to have bothered you and thanks for your help!
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10:23	<chrisjrob> vagrantc: my problem seems to be related to the RDP_OPTIONS. it's happy with all my options except for "-n CLIENTHOSTNAME", whereon it returns to flashing again.
10:29	<Gadi> bad hostname?
10:30	chrisjrob: keep in mind, WTS uses hostname as part of its check for licenses to ahnd out
10:30	*hand
10:30	'specially if it is handing out device licenses
10:31	<chrisjrob> Gadi: good thought, i will test with some others.
10:31	<Gadi> trying running rdesktop with that -n option from another computer, and you may get better error messaging
10:35	<chrisjrob> Gadi: yes you were right, it was rejecting that specific hostname; never considered that the issue might be at the server end!
10:35	<Gadi> :)
10:35	<lucy-> anyone still using LTSP 4.2
10:35	<Gadi> lucy-: whats your question?
10:36	or are you taking a census?
10:36	:)
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10:53	<lucy-> Gadi, I know how to install a driver in ltsp4.2.
10:53	I asked that they all know that only the 5
10:55	<Gadi> you want to know how to install a driver in 4.2?
10:55	what kind of driver?
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10:57	<lucy-> has no method for all drivers?
10:57	is a driver for biometric reader
10:58	<Gadi> well, no - installing a network driver is very different than installing a video driver
10:59	is the biometric driver a kernel module?
10:59	if so, you need to compile it against the kernel you are using
10:59	<ogra> with the toolchain used in the client chroot
11:00	<Gadi> yup
11:00	<ogra> (preferably)
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11:03	<lucy-> must install the driver, but I think it is just load the module.
11:03	But how can I compile the same kernel LTSP?
11:04	<vagrantc> compiling kernels is much easier in LTSP
11:05	<Gadi> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42#ltsp_kernel_kit
11:05	<ogra> vagrantc, ?? lucy- is talking about ltsp4 :)
11:05	nothing is much easier in ltsp4
11:06	<vagrantc> i know
11:07	* vagrantc wonders if people will still be asking about ltsp 4.x a decade from now...
11:07	<ogra> lol
11:07	* ogra hopes it will be gone from all servers by then
11:07	<cyberorg> vagrantc, may be, decade old hardware die hard :)
11:09	<ogra> cyberorg, so fix ltsp5 to support it instead of letting people use software that has a pile of secrurity holes like a swiss cheese
11:10	<cyberorg> ogra, they don't compile distros < i586 any more
11:10	<ogra> ubuntu has a kernel compiled with m486
11:10	<lucy-> The fault is not mine, I wanted to use 5 but my client uses 4.2
11:10	<ogra> its in universe and not well maintained but its there
11:11	(we used to use it by default in ubuntus first few ltsp5 releases)
11:11	<cyberorg> ogra, that may disappear much before ltsp 4 :)
11:11	<ogra> i hope not
11:11	4 starts becoming a risk
11:12	<cyberorg> i ran into issue with our kernel in the beginning, then i had to add glibc.i586 to make our image boot on some low end via thin clients
11:12	<ogra> security wont get better with age
11:12	software isnt like wine ;)
11:13	<lucy-> Is to compile a module pro LTSP 4.2?
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11:16	<lucy-> ???
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11:17	<cyberorg> lucy-, Gadi already posted this http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42#ltsp_kernel_kit for you
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11:24	<lucy-> is really necessary to compile a kernel?
11:25	cyberorg, is really necessary to compile a kernel?
11:27	<cyberorg> lucy-, no, but if your driver is kernel module you will have to compile that in chroot
11:31	<lucy-> cyberorg, with kernel kit I can chroot without compile the kernel?
11:32	<cyberorg> lucy-, i don't know much about ltsp 4
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11:33	* vagrantc notes that debian still supports i486
11:33	<vagrantc> though i haven't tested it in a while
11:34	<lucy-> nobody knows !!!
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11:36	<vagrantc> lucy-: ltsp 4 hasn't been developed for 4 years now, so the people who know much about it are fewer and fewer
11:36	maybe even longer
11:37	<Gadi> uh, in ltsp 4.2 you of course need to compile the kernel
11:37	you need the kernel headers
11:37	against which to make your kernel module
11:37	<lucy-> I just needed to compile the kernel module in a kernel consistent
11:39	<Gadi> sure
11:40	these are not LTSP things but fundamental Linux things
11:40	you want to load your module in a kernel running on a computer (the client, in this case)
11:41	for the kernel to accept it, it needs to be compiled against that kernel's headers with the appropriate version of gcc and friends
11:41	LTSP 4.2 pushes back some old kernel 2.6.x.x
11:41	choices:
11:41	1. download that kernel
11:41	and compile your module against it with the same gcc as LTSP 4.2
11:42	<lucy-> vangrand I know he has a 4 years, but how can anyone know, until Jim showed no willingness to help me
11:42	<Gadi> 2. download the kernel kit
11:42	which has all of the pieces to do the same
11:48	<lucy-> wanted to load the module running the client, but
11:48	how do I add the module to the kernel is compiling a new kernel with kit
11:49	<Gadi> lucy-: you only have the kernel binary
11:49	to compile a module against a kernel, you need either the kernel header or the kernel source
11:49	thats why you need to use the kit
11:49	to get the kernel source
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11:58	<lucy-> Gadi, then need to compile a kernel I can use like any other on the server, compile the module, then load the kernel module in LTSP?
11:59	<Gadi> if the kernel that you send to the thin client is, say : /var/lib/tftpboot/lts/2.6.19xxxx
11:59	then, you need to compile kernel 2.6.19xxxx
12:00	and then make your module against that kernel
12:00	then, once you have your module, you can copy it into the chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.19xxxx/...
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12:01	<Gadi> chroot into the chroot
12:01	run depmod on it to refresh its modules.dep
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12:01	<Gadi> then, you should be able to set: MODULE_01=myModuleName
12:01	in lts.conf
12:01	and have it load on boot
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12:02	* Gadi is not even going to ask how you plan to handle the biometric data once you get this working :)
12:05	<lucy-> no,
12:08	Gadi, compile the kernel 2.6xx to use the normal distribution?
12:09	<Gadi> well, the kit will have the config file that LTSP uses
12:09	but, it mostly shouldn't matter, so long as you have the headers that your module needs
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12:33	<lucy-> Gadi, there is a "how to" for this?
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13:04	<_UsUrPeR_> stgraber: pong
13:04	<stgraber> _UsUrPeR_: yup, saw your answer, I'll look at it as soon as I've fixed something for the QA team
13:05	<_UsUrPeR_> ok, cool. thanks
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13:35	<ltspbot> rjune_: davidj was last seen in #ltsp 4 days, 0 hours, 20 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <davidj> rjune
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13:55	<jrock2004> I am running off an ltsp ubuntu and notice that the right click is very slow
13:55	the other part like surfing is fine. It is right clicking and dropdown menus. Any ideas?
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14:23	<jrock2004> can I update the ltsp build client while it is in use?
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14:53	<Guest26620> d
14:53	<ogra> e
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14:57	<alkisg> f
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15:08	<droalt> hi guys
15:09	* nubae wonders how Oracle buying Sun will affect Open Source
15:09	<droalt> I am running an intrepid ltsp server, modified the lts.conf to automatically connect to server 2003 TS, everything works great except for audio
15:10	<nubae> 2003 TS = windows?
15:10	<droalt> yes
15:11	<nubae> well, the audio part is windows specifc then
15:11	<droalt> when i rdesktop directly from the intrepid ltsp server to the windows 2003 ts, audio works great
15:12	but it does not work from any of the ltsp clients
15:13	<nubae> so u mean on a linux desktop
15:13	?
15:14	<jrock2004> if I chroot and install an app do I need to run anything so I can see it on my thiin client?
15:14	<nubae> can u check dmesg for errors?
15:14	jrock2004: u need to rebuild image
15:14	jrock2004: u mean for localapps?
15:14	<droalt> ok let me explain better nubae
15:14	<jrock2004> nubae: well I am having issues in the client build with firefox
15:15	nubae: so I chroot into my ltsp build image and did a sudo apt-get install opera
15:15	<nubae> wait a minute
15:15	jrock2004: this is regular ltsp? localapps? fatclient?
15:15	<jrock2004> ltsp server
15:16	<nubae> then why are u installing anything in the chroot?
15:16	<jrock2004> on my ltsp server I did sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
15:16	<nubae> all apps are installed on the server
15:16	<droalt> from the ltsp-server, which is ubuntu intrepid, I can rdestop to the windows 2003 TS and audio works. When I pxe/ltsp boot a a client and use rdesktop to connect to the windows 2003 TS audio does not work
15:16	<jrock2004> nubae: so then how does the thin client see it
15:16	nubae: ltsp-update-image?
15:16	<nubae> jrock2004: thats the meaning of 'thin'... it is just a connection to the server
15:17	imagine, if u will that u have an extra keyboard, mouse and monitor connected to your ltsp server
15:17	the client does nothing except make a connection to the server
15:17	everything runs on the server
15:17	so if u want to install opera
15:17	just install it on the server
15:18	droalt: right, its still got to do with windows... the specifc audio hardware on that thin client probably is not being recognised by windows
15:18	<droalt> from the ltsp-server, which is ubuntu intrepid, I can rdestop to the windows 2003 TS and audio works. When I pxe/ltsp boot a a client and use rdesktop to connect to the windows 2003 TS audio does not work
15:19	the ltsp server and ltsp client are the exact same box
15:19	<nubae> hmmm
15:19	<droalt> i am running a small scale test for troubleshooting
15:19	<nubae> thats odd then
15:19	very odd
15:19	<droalt> both dell's, exact same model
15:19	and they are full desktops
15:19	<nubae> do u get audio with other apps?
15:20	<ogra> i think there is a trick for sound on ltsp clients with rdesktop, gadi might know
15:20	<nubae> ie, connect via ldm and run something with audio
15:20	<droalt> yes, I installed intrepid on both and both had audio
15:20	i installed xp on both (yuck) and both had audio
15:20	<nubae> yeah like ogra says, must have to do with the rdesktop connection
15:21	<droalt> you have to do -r sound:local:alsa
15:21	<nubae> wait for Gadi to come online, and ask him, he's the rdesktop guru
15:21	<ogra> gadi has reciepes for all these rdesktop issues
15:21	<droalt> but remember guys
15:21	audio works from the ltsp-server itself
15:21	using the same rdesktop command
15:21	<ogra> no, you need to redirect to the pulse server
15:21	alsa is taken by it
15:21	<droalt> ok redirec to the pulse server...ok lost me lol but thats what i was thinking
15:22	<ogra> (pulse is running on the client)
15:22	<droalt> so instead of alsa try to use pulse?
15:22	or I guess I could wait for gadi lol
15:22	<ogra> yeah
15:22	<droalt> he on during the day or night?
15:22	<ogra> he is best with rdesktop issues
15:22	us eastern
15:23	<droalt> cool, so he probably left 20 minutes ago, darn
15:23	<ogra> pretty exactly 26min ago :)
15:24	<droalt> well I'll have to catch him in the morning then
15:24	ty guys for your help
15:24	i love ltsp
15:25	took me a couple weeks to make it work on intrepid with a single nic and still have internet
15:25	<nubae> so say we all
15:25	:-)
15:25	<droalt> this is a paranoid question
15:25	I have disabled dhcp on the ltsp server, and am letting windows hand out the boot options and dhcp
15:25	<jrock2004> nubae: do I have to do anything special after installing the app on the server
15:25	<nubae> nope
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15:26	<nubae> just make sure u get rid of firefox in the client, that'll probably give u problems
15:26	<droalt> every guide that i read says to create a reservation in the windows dhcp server for each lstp client
15:26	but I didn't, i just changed the default scope with the boot options and everything has been working fine
15:26	<jrock2004> nubae: well the only issue I have with firfox is the right clicking and clicking on drop downs being slow
15:27	<nubae> jrock2004: that could be due to many things, I doubt its firefox's fault though
15:27	<droalt> nubae: basically is it wrong to let windows hand out dhcp and boot options for ltsp clients and put them in the same range as non ltsp clients?
15:28	<nubae> nope, I dont see why it would be
15:28	<jrock2004> nubae: any ideas or where would I go to find out
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15:28	<Trey__> ok maybe repeat your answe sorry
15:28	<alkisg> droalt: stgraber in jaunty also added support for another dhcp client in the chroot, one that respects the dhcp leases. You may look into it if you like.
15:29	Because ipconfig doesn't :(
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15:29	<stgraber> droalt: just apt-get install udhcpc in the chroot, then do update-initramfs -u
15:29	and you'll get it
15:29	<nubae> jrock2004: Really not sure... first, find out if u get the same issue on the serve
15:29	server
15:30	<Trey__> why would I want to use stgraber
15:30	<---droalt, i got disconnected lol
15:30	<jrock2004> nubae: I do not get it on the server
15:30	<nubae> hah
15:30	* nubae uses a stgraber for ltsp
15:30	<alkisg> Hehe!
15:30	<Trey__> lol
15:30	exit
15:31	what is a stgraber
15:31	<alkisg> It's a ...person :)
15:31	<ogra> nubae, that stgraber is also helpful on other things ... he is like a swiss knife ;)
15:31	<Trey__> lol oh you're joking with me lol
15:31	funny
15:31	* ogra used an stgraber on the ubuntu isotracker today :)
15:31	<Trey__> lol
15:32	<ogra> fixed all my issues immediately
15:32	<Trey__> ok what would i use udhcpc for?
15:32	<nubae> yep the personal stgraber knife, especially useful for ltsp, clustering and ubuntu problems ;-)
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15:32	<Trey__> ok it's a thin client dhclient
15:32	i am not having any problems with dhcp :P
15:33	nubae: whats the name of the guy I need to talk to tomorrow?
15:33	gadi?
15:33	<nubae> yep
15:33	<Trey__> ty guys have a goodnight
15:33	<jrock2004> nubae: how do I use or contact stgraber
15:33	<alkisg> Trey__: padsp is for redirecting pulseaudio
15:35	<stgraber> :)
15:35	<jrock2004> stgraber: so you are the person who might be able to help me :)
15:35	<stgraber> sounds like it
15:37	<jrock2004> stgraber: firefox via a remote session is having issues where right click or clicking on a dropdown takes 5 seconds to load
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15:39	<jrock2004> stgraber: I wondering if this could be java related
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15:46	<stgraber> jrock2004: it's known and reported, it's a libxcb bug IIRC
15:47	https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxcb/+bug/277069
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15:57	<jrock2004> stgraber: well I just installed opera and now that works fine. So I might just switch to that instead of firefox
16:10	<nubae> hmmm, its release day for ubuntu? should I update edubuntu.org?
16:14	<stgraber> nubae: it'll be on thursday
16:15	<nubae> ah ok, cool, good to know :-)
16:16	I'll get the pages ready then
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18:22	<Ahmuck> release day is on thursday?!
18:22	i didn't think it was till the end of the week
18:32	* vagrantc doesn't expect a release for another 18 months at the very least
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19:17	<rjune_> davidj: you around?
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19:36	<Ahmuck> rjune u still in KC?
19:59	* rjune_ has never been to KC in his life.
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20:07	<rjune_> LOL, I'm not allowed to go to the store after exercise anymore
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