IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 14 November 2008 (all times are UTC)

00:01	<sbalneav> LOL emacs too.
00:01	emacs on my iMac
00:02	scott-balneavess-mac-mini:etc sbalneav$ gcc
00:02	-bash: gcc: command not found
00:02	Well, can't win 'em all :)
00:02	<Ryan52> I know. when I saw that the macs at school had emacs and screen, it just made my day...I was the only one not using word :P
00:03	sadly, I couldn't figure out how to print latex documents on it, so I had to use plain text :(
00:04	<sbalneav> Well, I've already run into something called "fink" which is a way to install ported GNU/Linux software onto the Mac.
00:04	Ryan52: You like LaTeX?
00:05	That was what I used all through University. Got the Lamport book?
00:05	<Ryan52> yes, though I make heavy use of google most of the time.
00:05	I use it like 5 times a year.
00:05	I'll look at that book, thanks.
00:06	<sbalneav> I've already installed OpenOffice.org, so all I need to do is enable printing sharing on my Linux box, and the cups on the mac should pick it up.
00:06	I haven't, as yet, figured out how to mount an NFS volume.
00:06	From the gui, I mean.
00:07	sudo mount server:/home /local should work, but Jobs is already probably cringing at half of what I've done so far here this evening.
00:08	<Ryan52> hehe
00:08	<sbalneav> And mirablilis dictu, they at least INCLUDE THE INSTALL CD'S FOR ALL THE SOFTWARE with it. OSX, iLife, the works.
00:08	So SOMEONE down in Cupertino's awake at the switch.
00:10	I've gotten more interoperablility between this little mac mini in the last 2 hours than I EVER got out of windows.
00:11	'Course, I stopped looking at MS products back at Windows98, so maybe they got better after I stopped caring :)
00:13	<petre> well, it is unix underneath
00:16	<sbalneav> Exactly
00:16	Which is what makes it awesome.
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05:12	<filo1234> hi all, is possible to configure client for to use usb pendrive in local?
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06:06	<Appiah> Hello , I'm having a problem setting USE_LOCAL_SWAP does not seam to affect my clients at all
06:07	filo1234: filo1234 have you tried localdev?
06:09	<filo1234> Appiah: localdev?
06:09	Appiah: what is it? :D
06:09	<ogra> its on by default on all recent ltsp5 implementations
06:09	plugging in a usb key to a client should just work
06:09	<Appiah> oh
06:10	nevermind then
06:10	<filo1234> ogra: maybe :)
06:10	ogra: in my client if i plug an usb pen not run
06:10	<ogra> what distro
06:11	<filo1234> ogra: ubuntu 8.10
06:11	<ogra> definately works here
06:11	<Appiah> I have USE_LOCAL_SWAP=True and NBD_SWAP=False , but I still get a NBD and no local swap
06:11	<filo1234> fdisk -l doesn't see usb
06:11	<ogra> no, it wont
06:11	its not a device on the server
06:12	fdisk can only talk to devices on the server
06:12	<filo1234> ok
06:12	<ogra> usb keys from clients are forwarded through ltspfs over the net
06:13	tehy should show up mounted under /media on the server (in the users session) after you plugged them in
06:13	<filo1234> uhm
06:13	<Appiah> maybe I should try a bigger size on the NBD instead >_>
06:17	nbd0 receive control failed "-32"
06:19	<filo1234> ogra: uhm i have this problem : user client thin passwd thin if on server i logen in with user thin, usb is recognized on client
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06:20	<filo1234> s/logen/logged
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06:21	<ogra> you are aware that if you log in on the client, your desktop and all apps are runing on the server, right ?
06:21	te only thing that runs on the client is the login window, everything past that is server side
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06:22	<filo1234> ogra: ok ....
06:22	ogra: but if i plug usb on client he not run
06:22	<ogra> so if you log in on a client and plug in a usb key after logging in, it should show up in /media if you open a gnome terminal in that session you see on the client
06:23	<filo1234> there isn't on /media i have look
06:24	<ogra> from the client ?
06:24	i.e. in the desktop session
06:24	<Appiah> what does dmesg on the client say after you plugin the USB device filo1234 ?
06:25	<filo1234> ogra: on client there isn't in /media
06:25	Appiah: now i try to look
06:25	<ogra> in the session
06:25	the desktop session that starts after login on the client
06:25	open a gnome terminal there
06:25	there is no /media directly on the client
06:29	<filo1234> ogra: on the thinclient i open gnome-termnal and ls /media give only cdrom
06:29	<ogra> ah
06:29	if you plug the usb key directly on the server, does it show up then ?
06:30	<filo1234> yes
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06:31	<ogra> if you look at dmesg on the server after plugging in, does it talk about /dev/sdX1 or only about /dev/sdX ?
06:31	<filo1234> and if i logged in with thinclient user, on server ltsp, and i plug usb key on thinclient it work right
06:32	<ogra> you men you are logged in twice with the same user ? dont do that, that breaks
06:32	*mean
06:32	<filo1234> no
06:33	<ogra> ??
06:33	* ogra doesnt understand
06:33	<filo1234> ogra: so on server i have configured user for thinclient called thin ok?
06:33	<ogra> you are logged in on the thin client and on the server, then you plug in your usb key on the client and you see it with the user logged in on the server
06:33	?
06:34	<filo1234> yes
06:34	<Appiah> I made the /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf with SIZE=128 and SWAPDIR defined, But my client still gets 32
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06:34	<Appiah> Any ideas?
06:36	<ogra> filo1234, but you use two different users for that ?
06:37	<filo1234> ogra: I try to login on thinclient, connect the USB key and not see, I try to login on the server with the same user thinclient, connect the USB key and works on thinclient
06:37	Italiano
06:37	»
06:37	Inglese
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06:37	<ogra> so you are logged in twice with the same user
06:37	<filo1234> ogra: yes
06:37	<ogra> right, dont do that
06:37	<filo1234> but only for try
06:38	ogra: normalyy nope
06:39	ogra: normally on server i login with my account wich is diffrent from thinclient user
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06:44	<filo1234> ogra: uhm ok i have reboot, so i see on thinclient /media/thin/usb
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06:45	<wigwam> hi
06:46	<filo1234> ogra: isn't mounted :\|
06:48	<wigwam> please, i'm using ltsp with rdesktop
06:48	<filo1234> ogra: i try later...thank for now :)
06:49	<wigwam> why xserver with rdp restarts periodicaly until user is logged in?
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06:53	<Appiah> wigwam: timeout I'd guess
06:53	its server side
06:53	(Just guessing here)
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06:59	<wigwam> Appiah: yes, i thought so
07:00	ehm, sorry
07:00	i think so
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07:19	<mattwalstonfromj> After upgrading our distro, the clients black screen after showing the boot splash for a little while. Where should I start?
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07:28	<Appiah> mattwalstonfromj: Xorg log
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07:29	<mattwalstonfromj> client or server?
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07:35	<Appiah> client..
07:52	<selffik> I am new user at ltsp. And i need to setup server for linux booting by PXE...for any devices, please offer what version is a better for it
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07:56	<cyberorg> selffik, version of what?
07:56	<rjune_> chrisinaWORKPLAC: ping
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07:56	<selffik> cyberorg, of LTSP
07:57	<cyberorg> selffik, ubuntu, debian, fedora and suse all now have ltsp5 integrated well
07:58	<dmaran> Morning all, anyone apply the latest login and passwd patches in Ubuntu 8.04 with LTSP-5? We get a little worried about these types of patches borking something up =)
07:59	<selffik> cyberorg, can you advice what a documentation i can used for that?
07:59	<ogra> !ubuntu
07:59	<ltspbot> ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
07:59	<ogra> see the latter link for ubunu
07:59	*ubuntu
07:59	!debian
07:59	<ltspbot> ogra: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
07:59	<cyberorg> selffik, there is a link in the channel topic too :)
07:59	<ogra> same for debian
07:59	<cyberorg> hi ogra :)
08:00	<ogra> not sure the upstream docs touch the distro specific install instructions
08:00	<cyberorg> they work on most distros
08:00	<ogra> !fedora
08:00	<ltspbot> ogra: Error: "fedora" is not a valid command.
08:00	<ogra> oh
08:00	intresting
08:01	* ogra wonders why warren hanst put anything in
08:01	<ogra> *hasnt
08:02	<selffik> selffik, !
08:03	<wigwam> please, where are session script stored?
08:04	is possible to write a custom one?
08:05	<ogra> wigwam, depends on your distro
08:05	<wigwam> ubuntu
08:05	<ogra> and yes, indeed you can write custom ones
08:05	<rjune_> ogra: how to teach ltspbot?
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08:05	<wigwam> i supposed there are somewhere in chroot enviroment, but i didn't found
08:05	<ogra> ubuntu uses the default /etc/X11/Xsession which for example parses ~/.xsession if it exists
08:05	(on the server)
08:06	<selffik> cyberorg, can you tell me where is a root file system by default in LTSP?
08:06	<rjune_> I think most distros do that
08:06	<ogra> there is nothing session related in the chroot
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08:06	<cyberorg> wigwam, you mean rdesktop session script?
08:06	<rjune_> right, that's purely part of the login procedure
08:06	<ogra> selffik, /opt/ltsp/<client arch>
08:06	<wigwam> cyberorg: yes
08:07	<ogra> selffik, it gets created by the ltsp-build-client command
08:07	<wigwam> cyberorg: i need to create a session script which allows user to choose either ldm or rdp session
08:07	<cyberorg> wigwam, /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/
08:08	<selffik> ogra, thx!
08:09	<wigwam> cyberorg: thanks a lot
08:10	<cyberorg> wigwam, please post whatever you hack up on ltsp-developer ML, who knows it might end up upstream if useful :)
08:17	<alkisg> wigwam, if your clients have >= 128 Mb RAM, you may load both of them, screen02 = rdesktop and screen07 = X
08:17	wigwam, and users may switch with Ctrl+Alt+Fx (I've tested that setup, runs OK)
08:18	<wigwam> alkisg: i work also on this funcionality
08:19	but no all clients want it that way
08:19	<alkisg> wigwam, you don't have to modify any scripts for this, it works by only modifying lts.conf
08:20	<wigwam> alkisg: btw. didn't you have problems with win terminal server disconnection of non-logged in sessions?
08:20	<alkisg> wigwam, and you may disable either rdesktop or X for clients that don't want that by lts.conf entries (per PC)
08:20	<wigwam> alkisg: i know, solution you've mentioned we deployed once
08:20	<alkisg> wigwam, like Appiah told you, it's a win server setting, I modified it and didn't have timeouts anymore
08:21	<wigwam> alkisg: i know this is not win channel, but can you please hint me where to modify this?
08:21	<alkisg> but I don't remember the exact location, it's been a long time and I no longer use that setup
08:22	wigwam, I think it was in the terminal services management console
08:22	<wigwam> thanks
08:22	i didn't found nothing there, but i will try one more
08:23	<alkisg> wigwam, I also found out that I had to use the rdesktop options in lts.conf to not display a login name in the login screen (again, don't remember details)
08:24	wigwam, and pGina for ldap authentication
08:25	<wigwam> thanks a lot
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08:26	<jammcq> good morning #ltsp
08:32	<Appiah> g-conf related question , "This key has no schema" anyone got this error?
08:32	or "warning"
08:32	beacuse I can find the schema in /usr/share/gconf/schemas/
08:33	<pscheie> warren, ping
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08:45	<warren> pscheie: pong
08:46	<chrisinajar> rjune: _ or not for a pm
08:47	<pscheie> warren, http://petre.homedns.org/k12linux/ltsp-server-livesetupdocs-0.0.2-1.fc9.noarch.rpm
08:47	<warren> pscheie: .src.rpm?
08:47	<pscheie> warren, hold on...
08:47	<rjune_> chrisinajar: me
08:47	not is at work currently
08:48	<pscheie> warren, http://petre.homedns.org/k12linux/ltsp-server-livesetupdocs-0.0.2-1.fc9.src.rpm
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08:49	<pscheie> It's got the fixed image, and I rewrote a bunch of little parts to change the name to K12Linux Quick Start Guide.
08:49	The only thing I didn't change was the name of the package because I figured that would screw things up with Fedora
08:49	<warren> the package name is fine
08:50	<pscheie> long-term, though, I think it would be easier if the package can be renamed at some point, too
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08:51	<pscheie> It could use a bit more refining yet, but if you need it today, now, this is good enough
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08:52	<brendan0powers> rjune_: hi
08:52	<rjune_> brendan0powers: hello
08:53	<brendan0powers> rjune_ so your not feeling well?
08:53	<rjune_> no
08:53	not going to work work either.
08:53	<brendan0powers> thats too bad
08:53	<rjune_> yeah
08:53	<pscheie> warren, I took out the last step, of removing the package via rpm -e because I regarded that as unnecessary in the context of a Quick Start Guide (QSG)
08:53	<rjune_> been trying to get sick for a week, finally got it
08:54	<brendan0powers> ha
08:54	<rjune_> all this fast living caught up with me
08:54	<warren> pscheie: yeah, I guess so.
08:55	<pscheie> warren, but also left in the step about deleting /etc/skel/Desktop/QSG if one wishes the file to not appear on the desktop of newly created users
08:55	<warren> pscheie: one problem with this, is it will reappear if there is a package upgrade
08:56	<pscheie> warren, if they don't rpm -e the package?
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08:56	<warren> yes
08:56	<pscheie> ah, ok
08:56	<sbalneav> Morning everyone
08:57	<pscheie> that would only apply to cases where it's been installed to the hard drive
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08:58	<pscheie> so, I'll try to restructure the doc so the rpm -e falls under that
08:58	there's really just one sentence about installing to hard disk, since it's pretty simple
08:58	but to an uninitiated that mightn't be apparent
08:59	IOW, the 'install to hard disk, then follow the LTSP network setup steps below' path could be made more obvious
09:00	That's what I mean when I say it could use a bit more refinement.
09:00	<rjune_> brendan0powers: if warran wants to call, chris has my phone number, can still talk later
09:00	<warren> I'll work more on it during the weekend
09:00	pscheie: post a link to the latest .src.rpm in the bugzilla ticket
09:01	<pscheie> I can work on it some more tonight
09:01	<warren> k
09:06	<selffik> Hello! Simply question, I am already read the docs of LTSP, but i dont understand how can i add packages to thin client. For example i need to have access to thin client by SSH...its possible?
09:06	<pscheie> warren, is my RH Bugzilla login the same as my Fedora login?
09:06	<selffik> I am sorry, i am new user in it :)
09:07	<warren> pscheie: no
09:07	pscheie: RH bugzilla is an e-mail address wiht a separate password
09:08	<pscheie> ah, right, got it
09:09	<johnny> selffik, you don't need to add packages to thin clients in most cases, just add them to the serve
09:09	server*
09:09	then are then enabled for the thin clients
09:09	<pscheie> warren, bugzilla updated
09:10	<johnny> why do you need to access thin client by ssh?
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09:20	<sbalneav> johnny: Got the iPod working, just needed to turn on "Manage this iPod manually"
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09:27	<jcastro> sbalneav: you shouldn't need to import anything
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09:28	<jcastro> sbalneav: also, Banshee does transcoding to mp3 so you can keep your nice oggs on your PC and it will convert them to mp3 when you sync it for the ipod
09:29	<sbalneav> Is banshee on the mac?
09:29	Or is that a linux thing?
09:29	<jcastro> linux thing
09:29	but he has a new mac build out this release
09:29	<sbalneav> Ah, oh, I normally use rhytmbox
09:29	<jcastro> that'll work too
09:30	<sbalneav> It'll auto sync to mp3?
09:30	Get outta town/
09:30	<jcastro> yep
09:30	it's hot action
09:30	<sbalneav> Saweet.
09:30	I'm liking the mac so far
09:30	alkisg has joined #ltsp
09:31	<nubae> am a bit dissapointed with all the audio apps... they either crash out or have silly playlist methods... I've defaulted to using vlv
09:31	vlc even
09:31	<ogra> erm, note that you need the gstreamer lame stuff for that
09:31	else it wont know mp3 :)
09:31	<selffik> johnny, so if server already has a SSHD than thisclient also will has a SSHD
09:31	?
09:31	<sbalneav> Well, so far it's not like it was a big issue: I've got the MP3's on the mac, I just couldn't seem to play 'em from iTunes.
09:32	selffik: No, a thin client normally doesn't have sshd installed.
09:32	You could install it within the chroot.
09:32	<ogra> hey, this is no apple support channel here
09:32	:P
09:33	<selffik> sbalneav, How can i add SSHD to a client?
09:33	<ogra> !docs
09:33	<ltspbot> ogra: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
09:33	<sbalneav> Oh, yeah, like we haven't suported EVER OTHER program in existence over the years.
09:33	<ogra> selffik, look in the docs
09:33	<sbalneav> I'm owed :)
09:33	mattwalstonfromj has joined #ltsp
09:33	<sbalneav> selffik: short answer:
09:33	<nubae> sudo chroot i386 apt-get install sshd
09:33	<ogra> selffik, it has a chapter about clint chroot mantenance
09:34	<sbalneav> yeah
09:34	what nubae said :)
09:34	don't forget ltsp-update-image
09:34	<nubae> probably needs repos though
09:34	or is that installed by default these days?
09:34	<sbalneav> selffik: yeah, and the docs have examples too.
09:34	<ogra> interpid has all
09:34	hardy doesnt
09:35	<mattwalstonfromj> Odd question... I have used ltsp for sometime and the performance is always a little lacking compared to the thin client's manufacturers rdp connection to a windows box... that said, are their any major performance enhancements that can be enabled? trusted network, don't really need encryption. any ideas?
09:36	<nubae> sbalneav: maybe u should teach the bot to spit out something about turning directx true
09:36	:-)
09:37	<johnny> selffik, why do you want sshd in the thin client?
09:37	<sbalneav> !directx
09:37	<ltspbot> sbalneav: Error: "directx" is not a valid command.
09:37	elisboa has joined #ltsp
09:37	<johnny> mattwalstonfromj, set LDM_DIRECTX=Y
09:38	<selffik> ogra, Chapter 6. The LTSP chroot environment this one?
09:38	<ogra> i think so
09:38	<johnny> selffik, hello
09:38	selffik, you should mention why you want sshd in there
09:39	<sbalneav> ltspbot: learn directx as If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type "!docs" in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
09:39	<ltspbot> sbalneav: The operation succeeded.
09:39	<sbalneav> !directx
09:39	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "directx" is If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
09:39	<selffik> johnny, its for recovery mission, i want to login by ssh and have access to hard disk for recovery things
09:39	<nubae> soon people's questions will all be answered with a ! :-)
09:40	<sbalneav> nubae: You know, ANYONE can teach ltspbot new tricks, he doesn't just listen to me :)
09:40	<johnny> selffik, the keys will change every time
09:40	<mattwalstonfromj> !docs
09:40	<ltspbot> mattwalstonfromj: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
09:40	<nubae> sbalneav: oh, I didnt know that
09:40	<johnny> so you'll have to keep removing the keys from your known_hosts
09:40	<sbalneav> I'm very egalitarian in the running of my bot :)
09:40	<selffik> johnny, also i want to have a ntfs-3g driver on thin client that i can load from server images for different PCs
09:40	<nubae> until someone abuses the bot somehow
09:40	<mattwalstonfromj> nubae: thanks, i must have had read old docs... did not see mention of directx
09:41	<sbalneav> Hasn't happened in 6+ years.
09:41	Besides what's the worse that can happen?
09:41	!monkeys
09:41	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "monkeys" is SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
09:41	<sbalneav> !s
09:41	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:42	<nubae> hehe, i guess...
09:42	<sbalneav> The monkeys one is a personal jobe between me and jammcq
09:42	<selffik> johnny, security here is not at first place
09:43	johnny, i am new user in it and i try to findout how i can realese my idea
09:44	<sbalneav> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
09:45	See the heading "Real Monkeys"
09:45	<Ahmuck> can one "cluster" a number of machines for ltsp ?
09:47	<sbalneav> Servers, you mean?
09:47	<selffik> johnny, so can you advice me some?
09:48	<sbalneav> There's some goodies within LDM to allow for a "load distribution" of servers, see the docks
09:48	err, docs
09:48	strgraber and fgiraldeau have worked on it.
09:48	<stgraber> Ahmuck: https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster
09:48	<johnny> advise you some with what?
09:48	dirigeant has joined #ltsp
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09:53	<selffik> johnny, what i need to read or how can i add sshd to thisn client
09:53	<sbalneav> selffik: Install the ssh daemon, and you'd either need to set root's password within the chroot, or create another user within the chroot to log in as
09:53	selffik: we told you already
09:54	sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install openssh-server
09:54	sudo ltsp-update-image
09:55	<Ahmuck> stgraber: i was thinking something like a bewolf cluster of ltsp
09:55	CAN-o-SPAM_ has joined #ltsp
09:55	<Ahmuck> where processing power is picked up from multple machines
09:55	mattwalstonfromj has quit IRC
09:55	<sbalneav> openssh-server's in main
09:55	and that's in there
09:55	selffik: as well:
09:56	http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#updating-chroot
09:57	<selffik> sbalneav, great thx i will try!!
09:57	<alkisg> stgraber, (sorry for interrupting), do you have any info in LTSP-cluster for 2 NIC servers and network load balancing? (e.g. bonding)
09:59	<sbalneav> Morning CAN-o-SPAM_
10:01	<stgraber> alkisg: nope, we don't have that kind of setup
10:02	<CAN-o-SPAM_> morning scotty!
10:02	<alkisg> stgraber, thanks
10:02	<stgraber> it's more a configuration related thing though, shouldn't be ltsp specific
10:02	<CAN-o-SPAM_> sbalneav: plugged in that new toy of yours yet?
10:13	<jammcq> ah, the old monkey joke :)
10:14	wima has joined #ltsp
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10:15	wima has joined #ltsp
10:18	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
10:21	* sbalneav signs cheques
10:21	<rjune_> I'll take one
10:21	<jammcq> hey, sign one for me
10:22	<sbalneav> Sure, how much?
10:22	<jammcq> $126.00
10:22	<rjune_> not much, how about $100 USD
10:23	mccann has joined #ltsp
10:23	<sbalneav> jammcq: BWAHAHAHA
10:23	That was the best one you ever did.
10:23	Didn't even miss a beat.
10:23	<jammcq> hmm, better than the omelette ?
10:23	<rjune_> I missed the 126 jok
10:23	joke
10:24	<sbalneav> The omlette was mine.
10:24	<jammcq> rjune_: you had to be there
10:24	no, that was mine
10:24	at least I remember it as tho it were mine
10:24	<sbalneav> So, we're chatting with the checkout clerk at the store
10:24	She's funny and feisty, so we're betting on how much the groceries we're buying will come to.
10:25	Se looks at 'em, and says "Mmmmm... $126.00."
10:25	"What'll you give me if I'm right?"
10:25	Witout even a pause, and totally deadpan
10:25	McQuillan says, "$126.00"
10:26	It was.... perfect.
10:27	<jammcq> yeah, I guess you had to be there
10:27	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
10:27	<sbalneav> Morning vagrantc
10:27	tjikkun_work has quit IRC
10:27	<vagrantc> mornin
10:29	staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:30	* sbalneav signs cheques for $850 worth of paternity tests
10:30	<jammcq> dude, you've been busy
10:30	<rjune_> damn
10:30	<jammcq> gettin it done
10:30	<warren> sbalneav: do you get a bulk discount?
10:30	<sbalneav> The thing with paternity tests is: SOMEONE always ends up unhappy with the results
10:31	<rjune_> heh
10:31	indeed
10:31	<jammcq> same can be said of presidential elections
10:31	<sbalneav> Na, I'm a member of the Sunkist Orange club. None of the tests are mine. :)
10:32	* vagrantc just remembered the jetpipe in C branch
10:32	<vagrantc> and jetpipe from udev branch
10:32	<sbalneav> Yeah, I did some work on it, but I thought it never got committed.
10:34	<vagrantc> jetpipe from udev is probably the way to go ...
10:34	plug it in, poof. printer.
10:36	<sbalneav> yeah, that was my thoughts at the time.
10:37	<wima> i keep having this problem where local devices always appear on every single desktop. Does anyone know what causes this?
10:37	it is especially annoying for the floppies
10:37	20 floppy icons on every desktop
10:37	<vagrantc> !release
10:37	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "release" is please mention the linux distro and release you're using :)
10:37	<vagrantc> wima: ^^
10:39	<johnny> wima, it is likely that your users aren't in there own groups
10:39	<sbalneav> wima: Are all your users in the same primary group?
10:40	<johnny> their*
10:40	<sbalneav> lol
10:40	<wima> yes
10:40	<johnny> that is the problem
10:40	<sbalneav> Yeah, that's the problem.
10:40	<wima> ah
10:40	hm
10:40	<johnny> their primary group should be their username
10:40	<sbalneav> create separate primary groups, like user1, user2, for the users
10:40	<wima> my users are on an ldap server
10:41	<sbalneav> then one group that contains all the users:
10:41	<wima> ok
10:41	<sbalneav> i.e. share:x:400:user1,user2,...
10:41	Works the same for ldap.
10:41	<wima> the thing is
10:41	<sbalneav> I'm on ldap myself, so I know it works.
10:41	<wima> ok
10:41	spectra has joined #ltsp
10:42	<wima> i'll look into it
10:42	thanks
10:42	<sbalneav> NP
10:42	<wima> for the moment, i just disabled those damn floppies
10:42	<vagrantc> i wonder if we shouldn't put some sort of check in ltspfs to detect the "user not in own group" problem
10:43	<rjune_> perhaps it should be documented
10:43	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
10:43	<sbalneav> rjune++
10:43	I volunteer rjune.
10:43	all in favour?
10:43	<vagrantc> ++
10:43	<sbalneav> ++
10:44	<wima> ++
10:44	<jammcq> rjune++
10:44	<rjune_> dammit
10:44	* vagrantc wonders what quorum is
10:44	<rjune_> when everybody volunteers somebody else to do it
10:44	:-D
10:44	<vagrantc> i guess quorum is the number of people that it takes before the person implementing it just goes ahead and does it
10:45	<rjune_> there's a wiki now right?
10:45	<ogra> was that a vote for "who is responsible" with the paternity tests ?
10:45	<sbalneav> rjune, email me some text, I'll add it to the docs.
10:45	* ogra votes for rjune as wel then
10:45	<sbalneav> ogra: LOL
10:45	<rjune_> hey now, I have two of my own
10:45	<sbalneav> Ok, the vote is: was rjune the father. All in favour?
10:46	++
10:46	<rjune_> --
10:46	<ogra> as long as he documents it :)
10:46	<sbalneav> All we need is one more vote to win...
10:46	<jammcq> ++
10:47	<sbalneav> rjune: congrats. You now have 3 more children in Manitoba
10:47	I'll send you the paper work :)
10:47	<ogra> haha
10:47	<rjune_> sbalneav: does the canadian govt help cover their costs?
10:48	<sbalneav> In socialist canada? You must be kidding...
10:48	<rjune_> and how am I going to get them shipped? can you put them into a container and overnight them to me?
10:48	<sbalneav> Child tax credit, free schooling, free medical
10:48	all you gotta do is feed 'em and house 'em
10:48	And love 'em
10:48	<ogra> FedEx big box ?
10:48	<jammcq> not DHL, that's for sure
10:48	<ogra> heh
10:49	<rjune_> I dunno, DHL early AM deliver will get them here in the afternoon
10:49	so you won't have to pay for shipping
10:49	<ogra> if you take DHLjust put enough food into the box as well
10:51	<rjune_> sbalneav: ages and genders?
10:51	<sbalneav> Doesn't say on the cheque I signed.
10:51	<rjune_> I've got two boys and a girl
10:51	<sbalneav> It's a surprise!
10:51	<jammcq> DHL is shuttind down US operations
10:51	<rjune_> I really don't want a bunch of teenagers
10:51	<jammcq> better put a LOT of food in the box
10:52	<rjune_> heh
11:01	hanthana has quit IRC
11:01	<sbalneav> Blogged.
11:01	<rjune_> ?
11:01	<sbalneav> immortalized forever
11:01	ltspthinclient.blogspot.com
11:02	Maybe that's what I could do in my blog
11:02	#ltsp humour
11:02	<rjune_> whew, for I moment I thought you were immortalizing something else.
11:06	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
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11:09	<selffik> Hello, just install LTSP ubuntu 8.4 server, how to get UP TFTP?
11:09	DHCP is ok, but TFTP not...
11:10	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
11:10	<sbalneav> how did you install ltsp?
11:10	apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone should install tftp
11:11	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
11:11	<rjune_> sbalneav: I think you canucks understand democracy too well
11:11	<selffik> sbalneav, yeah i did it!!!
11:12	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
11:12	<selffik> sbalneav, apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone exactly
11:13	<sbalneav> grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
11:13	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
11:13	<sbalneav> netstat -an \| grep ":69"
11:13	try both of those.
11:14	<ogra> might be that you need to restart inetd
11:14	<sbalneav> paste the results to our pastebot
11:14	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
11:14	<selffik> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
11:14	<sbalneav> could be. invoke-rc.d openbsd-inetd restart
11:14	brendan_ has joined #ltsp
11:15	<sbalneav> ok, so it's installed, what does the netstat line say?
11:15	brendan0powers has quit IRC
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11:15	<selffik> sbalneav, nothings netstat say
11:15	brendan0powers has quit IRC
11:15	brendan_ is now known as brendan0powers
11:16	<sbalneav> ok, so restart inetd with the invoke-rc.d command I gave you
11:16	<selffik> sbalneav, yeah it work THX!!!!
11:17	i going next :)
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11:34	<jammcq> sbalneav: hey, love the blog post :)
11:35	<sbalneav> Yeah.
11:35	I thought it was funny enough to merit a post.
11:35	<jammcq> indeed
11:35	and now.... lunch time
11:35	bbiab
11:35	<vagrantc> sooooo....
11:36	i'd like to figure out some way we can track the currently released versions of ltsp, ltspfs, ldm, etc.
11:37	unfortunately, launchpad's web interface doesn't allow us to browse tags ...
11:38	so we'd need to basically have a script that downloads the bzr branch, and runs "bzr tags" and spits it out to a file ...
11:38	Ahmuck has quit IRC
11:39	<ogra> use olive :)
11:39	<vagrantc> i want something that is wget-able.
11:39	ogra: basically, for the debian/watch file
11:39	<ogra> the xmlrpc interface of LP might have something
11:39	Subhodip has joined #ltsp
11:39	<vagrantc> ogra: i've already filed bugs on launchpad about it
11:40	although i guess those were just for the web interface ...
11:40	buy at any rate, we need a way to publish them, ideally to ltsp.org ...
11:40	s,buy,but,g
11:41	no matter how it gets generated
11:41	<ogra> python-launchpadlib might have something for it, not sure
11:41	<vagrantc> i don't think that information is available via launchpad
11:42	there's also no way to "get the latest version of this file from this branch" with launchpad's web ui.
11:42	* ogra wonders why he gets locale errors while compiling a kernel ...
11:42	<vagrantc> as that would be another option.
11:43	<ogra> did you ask in #launchpad ?
11:43	<vagrantc> yes.
11:43	and subscribed to the relevent bug reports
11:44	LP#246739, LP#269365, LP#260363
11:44	although i'm beginning to suspect that the latter two are a different issue
11:45	<johnny> ogra, do you know anything about new kernels for intrepid?
11:46	<ogra> johnny, nope
11:46	<johnny> suck
11:46	:(
11:46	people are hating me now :(
11:46	<ogra> there was a security update, but thats a while ago
11:46	<johnny> i'd like to find the 2.6.26 kernel that shipped with earlier intrepids
11:46	the alphas
11:46	<ogra> look at LP
11:46	<johnny> no luck so far
11:47	but maybe i'm typing in the wrong thing
11:47	<ogra> it usually has all versions of a package
11:47	<johnny> basically.. the intrepid kernel is unusable
11:47	breaks my sata controller
11:47	<ogra> yes, you said so
11:47	<johnny> in a way different than the hardy kerenls broke it
11:47	at least this time it boots :)
11:47	* johnny is using a gutsy kernel
11:47	<ogra> i assume you filed a bug and brought the kernel teams attention to it
11:48	<johnny> already filed
11:48	not by me tho
11:48	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/262845
11:48	<ogra> pinging the kernel team on IRC helps somethimes
11:48	<johnny> didn't think they would appreciate it
11:48	nor do i know where they are
11:48	<ogra> #ubuntu-kernel
11:49	and i think they would appreciate if you offer debugging help
11:49	<vagrantc> aha!
11:49	Subhodip has quit IRC
11:49	<vagrantc> it does work.
11:49	http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head:/release.conf
11:49	certainly not easy to find.
11:49	<ogra> heh, yeah
11:50	<selffik> :) I am ready with booting, but i cannot log in, what i need to do?
11:50	<sbalneav> selffik: what does it say when you try to log in?
11:53	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
11:54	<selffik> sbalneav, it say login incorrect, i am also have question, how can i go back to my root chroot?"
11:54	<ogra> does the user you try to log in with exist on the server ?
11:55	<sbalneav> yeah, and what do you mean by: how can i go back to my root chroot?
11:55	<ogra> i think he asks for ctrl-d if he is chrooted :)
11:56	<selffik> yeah ctrl-d ok :)
11:57	notasysop has joined #ltsp
11:58	<selffik> so user should be add in server or in chroot?
11:58	<vagrantc> server.
11:58	<notasysop> hi all, im back with another stupid question
11:58	<vagrantc> everything pretty much happens on the server
11:58	selffik: unless you're doing something unusual.
11:58	<notasysop> if i had stuff to the server, do i have to recreate the image before it will go to the client
11:59	* ogra pokes https://launchpad.net/+builds .... still more than 8000 packages until i can bootstrap arm :(
11:59	wima has left #ltsp
11:59	<rjune_> ogra: I thought ebox was gonna be pushed in ubuntu
11:59	<notasysop> like i installed x11vnc on the server, and in thin-client manager, when i click view screen, it says client needs x11vnc installed
11:59	<rjune_> x11vnc needs to be installed into the thin client root
11:59	mattwalston has joined #ltsp
11:59	<rjune_> aka LTSPROOT
12:00	<ogra> rjune_, there is a community team somewhere and i saw there was a meeting scheduled at UDS
12:00	<selffik> So i added already some user and now its said Xsession: unable to start X session no /home/user/.xsession file
12:00	<rjune_> UDS?
12:00	<notasysop> is that a config file or a directory? LTSPROOT i mean
12:01	<rjune_> ubuntu Developer Summit?
12:01	notasysop: directory
12:01	<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSJaunty
12:01	<rjune_> it's what y our terminals attach to as their root fs
12:01	<mattwalston> Upgraded from ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10. Now thinclients will boot and black screen hang upon starting X. What should I look at now and anyone got an easy way to see what is going on inside of the client before it freezes?
12:01	!docs
12:01	<ltspbot> mattwalston: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
12:02	<notasysop> ok, what about java runtime? same deal?
12:02	<rjune_> ogra: would be really fantastic to see an linux stack that included LDAP+smb integration from the getgo
12:02	<ogra> mattwalston, make sure that you properly wiped and rebuilt the client
12:02	warren has joined #ltsp
12:03	<rjune_> notasysop: no clue there
12:03	<notasysop> kk, i havent actually tried to run java in a browser on the client yet, just thought i'd ask before i installed
12:03	<johnny> notasysop, thin-client-manager is umaintained
12:03	and i never got it to work either
12:04	you probably want italc
12:04	<notasysop> it works as far as showing the processes, letting me kick users and all but just the view screen doesnt work
12:04	* ogra will take the time and remove the vnc stuff from it soon
12:04	<johnny> yeah.. you want italc
12:04	<ogra> t-c-m works fine for the rest
12:04	<johnny> if you want view screen
12:04	<ogra> yeah
12:04	<notasysop> italc? is it a package in repo?
12:04	<ogra> yes
12:04	<johnny> yes
12:05	<notasysop> ok. just so im clear about this.....
12:05	i dont have to rebuild the client image to get new things on the client if i put the files in LTSPROOT?
12:05	<mattwalston> ogra: tried that and then did a clean install on server
12:05	<rjune_> italc only works with terminals, right. not with a group of workstations?
12:05	<ogra> rjune, works fine with both
12:06	<rjune_> Oooo
12:06	cool
12:06	<ogra> and the master interface is also available for windows
12:06	<rjune_> nifty
12:06	<johnny> notasysop, yes you do
12:07	<selffik> ogra, So i added already some user and now its said Xsession: unable to start X session no /home/user/.xsession file
12:07	<notasysop> ok, so if i have installed a bunch of new stuff i need to rebuild the image?
12:07	sorry im such a noob lol
12:07	<johnny> notasysop, why would you install a bunch of new stuff in there?
12:08	you normally never need to install anything in there
12:08	<ogra> notasysop, what did you install in the client chroot ?
12:08	<johnny> just install it on the server
12:08	not in the chroot
12:08	and then you don't haveto rebuild anything
12:08	<notasysop> ive never done anything to the chroot
12:08	<johnny> maybe we need a ! that describes this..
12:08	then you don't have to rebuild anything
12:08	<notasysop> ok awesome
12:08	<johnny> only if you modify stuff in the chroot
12:08	<ogra> you only need to run ltsp-update-image if you add packages to the chroot
12:09	<notasysop> ok i think im gonna stay away from that for now
12:09	and hope that italc solves the x11vnc problem
12:09	<johnny> no.. it doesn't
12:09	it's a totally seperate application
12:09	<selffik> People!! new problem :) Your account has expired; please contact your system administrator
12:09	chfn: PAM authentication failed
12:09	adduser: `/usr/bin/chfn w' returned error code 1. Exiting.
12:10	<notasysop> i meant that as use italc instead of tcm
12:10	<johnny> what the hell are you doing selffik ?
12:10	where did you run that from?
12:11	<notasysop> if i can get my stupid repos to work omg i get checksum errors all the time from every repo in the list
12:11	<selffik> johnny, chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 && adduser
12:11	<ogra> selffik, err, why are yu doing that ?
12:12	<johnny> don't do that
12:12	selffik, just run adduser
12:12	or use the gui tool
12:12	<ogra> yeah, use the desktop tool to add users
12:13	it has the advantage of adding the user to all the right groups and gives you the right profiles etc
12:13	<selffik> On server i dont have desktop
12:13	<ogra> that doesnt work
12:13	ltsp needs a desktop
12:13	on the server
12:13	<johnny> you don't need a monitor.. but you do need the software..
12:13	<ogra> sine everything runs on the server after login
12:13	*since
12:14	<selffik> ok what should i install in server than?
12:14	<ogra> is that ubuntu ?
12:14	<selffik> yeah ubuntu
12:14	8.04
12:14	<ogra> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
12:14	<selffik> that is all?
12:15	<ogra> and wait for 20-30 min
12:15	yeah, thats all
12:15	<johnny> ogra, the ubuntu-kernel people are not very talkative :)
12:15	* johnny waits
12:15	<selffik> ok :) thx i will do that!
12:15	<ogra> johnny, well, weekend ... evening ...
12:15	<johnny> i should have done this earlier
12:16	<ogra> you might get the US people from the kernel team though
12:16	europe might be out already
12:16	<selffik> ogra, its already more that 1 hour :)
12:16	<johnny> i wonder if they have a script to build the kernel and package it
12:17	from the latest git sources
12:17	<selffik> ogra, i need to wait for what :)
12:17	<johnny> i'd be willing to try using the latest kernel package
12:17	<ogra> selffik, well you could just have used the alternate CD ... the full install is usually done in 45min and sets up everythig for you :)
12:17	<johnny> if i could find if they had a ppa or something..
12:18	<ogra> johnny, rtg has a ppa, but he usualy focuses on wlan fixes
12:18	<notasysop> why does java suck so bad in linux! so annoying
12:18	<ogra> just ask in the channel
12:18	<selffik> ogra, its no problem i will wait, going take supper :) and its will be done! So i will back in an hour :)
12:18	<ogra> yeah
12:18	<notasysop> its lame when windows 98 can do something a 2008 linux release CANT
12:19	anyway thanks for your help again guys
12:19	* ogra hasnt touched any java since 98 :)
12:19	<six2one> is anyone here using cli 6500x terminals?
12:19	notasysop has quit IRC
12:21	<six2one> im trying to get one to boot but x doesnt seem to run.... :-(
12:22	Lns has joined #ltsp
12:26	<CAN-o-SPAM_> six2one: you might check www.DisklessWorkstations.com ... i know these Thin Clients work! :)
12:27	alkisg has quit IRC
12:27	<six2one> long story, i wish i could
12:27	<CAN-o-SPAM_> if you catch stgrabber he might have some insight on getting your CLI to work ... it's AMD chipset correct?
12:27	<six2one> my company had some lower end cli units with that crappy geode chipset in it, so i could only do an exchange for the 6500x...
12:27	no
12:27	its via
12:28	im suprised it didnt just fire right up, but x def doesnt run...no issues up till that point...should be seeing login screen, instead nothing
12:29	<CAN-o-SPAM_> hmmm what distro? ltsp 5?
12:29	<six2one> yea
12:29	<CAN-o-SPAM_> ubuntu hardy?
12:29	<six2one> 8.04.1
12:31	they are good terms....1ghz edens, 512mb ram....i THINK the video chipset is the cn700....not positive though
12:34	<CAN-o-SPAM_> DVI or VGA?
12:34	<six2one> it has both
12:34	using vga
12:46	<Lns> six2one: what TC are you talking about?
12:46	<six2one> cli 6500x
12:47	<Lns> re: CAN-o-SPAM_ , My favorite TCs are by far the disklessworkstations.com LTSP Term 1220PXE
12:48	I use that for my own TC at work and it's never failed me. Worked perfectly OOTB
12:48	(w/Hardy)
12:48	<six2one> im just wondering what is wrong with either these terms from cli or my setup that keeps them from working
12:50	<Lns> six2one: do you have a URL for those? I can't find anything on google
12:50	<CAN-o-SPAM_> six2one ... it should work, maybe a re-install (?)
12:50	<six2one> i have an ltsp install in a vm...ill give that a shot
12:50	<Lns> six2one: also, what monitor are you using?
12:50	<six2one> its a dell 19" wide.....1440x900
12:51	which is currently working great with some 533mhz edens
12:51	<Lns> ok
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12:59	<mattwalston> Ok... here is my current situation... 8.04 worked, 8.10 does not. If I set a screen to be a shell, login, X -configure, start the screen script for ldm it works. If I set a screen to ldm or allow the default, it does not work.
12:59	<Lns> mattwalston: dumb question but i have to ask - did you rebuild the chroot?
13:00	alkisg has joined #ltsp
13:03	* Lns waves to alkisg
13:03	<alkisg> Hey Lns, what's up? :)
13:04	Done any bonding? :P
13:04	<Lns> alkisg: nada mucho =) Just eager to test out this Java workaround at my first school. They're using TypingMaster, which uses Java extensively. they werent' able to upgrade to the new version because of Java - which sucked because the new version has lots of fun games for the students
13:04	<mattwalston> Lns: yes, but i am trying to get it to work by specifying in lts.conf
13:05	<ogra> if you ran ltsp-build-client after upgrade you should really move the lts.conf out of the way first
13:05	<Lns> mattwalston: so it doesn't work with no lts.conf? What's the TC hardware?
13:05	ogra: does the presence/content of lts.conf affect how ltsp-build-client behaves?
13:05	<mattwalston> DevonIT cheap one... Via chipset
13:06	<ogra> no, but how the clients behave :)
13:06	<Lns> ogra: ;)
13:06	<mattwalston> Lns: i think it has something to do with the detection process
13:07	<Lns> mattwalston: sounds sane..try moving the lts.conf out of the way so it autodetects everything by itself
13:07	<ogra> the detection is plainly done by xorg itself now, no more scripts by default
13:07	<mattwalston> Lns: it doesn't
13:07	<Lns> that's awesome
13:07	* Lns isn't sure then.. Via has always worked ok for me
13:08	<mattwalston> ogra: I guess I should put an xorg.conf in chroot, rebuild and see if it works... don't really want to do that though, too many diffrent types of hw on this network
13:08	* Lns also doesn't use 8.10
13:08	<ogra> mattwalston, can you creat a three line lts.conf:
13:08	<Lns> mattwalston: you can probably specify the config in lts.conf for that particular client/class of client
13:08	<ogra> [default]
13:08	SCREEN_07=ldm
13:08	SCREEN_02=shell
13:08	and check the Xorg.0.log in /var/log after a client boot ?
13:09	<mattwalston> ogra: will do
13:09	gonzaloaf_laptop has joined #ltsp
13:09	<ogra> make sure there is nothing else in the lts.conf
13:09	and check what the errors are
13:10	i havent seen xorg having problems with a clean chroot from ltsp-build-client in 8.10 yet
13:10	<mattwalston> also, can I maintain two images for same arch?
13:10	ogra: every thing I tried it on works fine except for these damn devices
13:11	<ogra> yes, on different nbd ports
13:11	<mattwalston> ogra: they need to be retired but boss is cheap... via eden 400mhz does not exactly make my users happy
13:11	<ogra> oh ? it should
13:11	at least if it has a good amount of ram
13:12	i have seen 300MHz devices working fine
13:12	<alkisg> ogra: in a lab xorg autodetection completely hanged all the clients. Had to do CONFIGURE_X=True to make them boot.
13:12	<ogra> alkisg, bugs please :)
13:12	<alkisg> ogra, how can I see the bugs on a dead pc? :)
13:12	<ogra> not you :)
13:13	i want to see them on launchpad
13:13	<alkisg> I mean, I can't report anything other than lspci etc
13:13	<ogra> so i can point our X team to them
13:13	<alkisg> ogra, ok then, will do
13:13	<ogra> not much i can do anymore for 8.10 i fear though
13:13	<alkisg> but really they're ancient S3 virge cards, I don't know if it's worth it
13:13	<ogra> ah
13:13	likely even been dropped upstream
13:14	but they still should fall back to vesa
13:14	<Lns> ogra: why would some drivers be dropped?
13:14	<alkisg> They work fine with CONFIGURE_X=True or X_CONF=something though
13:14	No, they load s3virge driver
13:14	<ogra> Lns, many were
13:14	Lns, ask upstream :)
13:14	<selffik> how can I log in without X?
13:14	<Lns> ogra: heh ok
13:15	selffik: different screen
13:15	selffik: you'llh ave to give a bit more info though for more specific help
13:15	<ogra> selffik, see the lts.conf i mentioned above ?
13:15	create one like that and you have a shell on tty2
13:16	<selffik> ogra, i dont see your lts.conf
13:16	i have empty file
13:16	<ogra> <ogra> [default]
13:16	<ogra> SCREEN_07=ldm
13:16	<ogra> SCREEN_02=shell
13:16	<selffik> ok i will try
13:16	thx
13:16	<ogra> create one with these three lines in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
13:16	Ahmuck has joined #ltsp
13:17	* Lns had to stop Frotz/Zork from launching automatically on SCREEN_02 because it would start hogging CPU :(
13:18	<warren> Gadi: have you heard of Anat Cohen?
13:18	<alkisg> talking about X - has anyone seen TFT screens... I don't know how to describe it, distorting the image, displaying it to the upper half-left of the screen with very dim colours after 10 minutes of inactivit?
13:18	<warren> Gadi: Israeli musician, jazz
13:18	<alkisg> *inactivity? I had to lower the resolution for them to work correctly... new ones, SyncMaster something
13:18	warren has quit IRC
13:19	<ogra> the LCDs i work with nowadays are rarely above 7" :)
13:19	<alkisg> ogra, how can you??? !!! :)
13:19	<ogra> so i cant say much about SyncMaster's
13:19	warren_alt has joined #ltsp
13:20	<alkisg> I hope you don't have shortsight (if that's how it is called)
13:20	<ogra> alkisg, the one i'm currently working with is 4" :)
13:20	on top of an arm board ...
13:20	<Lns> 7" really isn't that bad, as long as you aren't using anything above 800x480
13:21	<alkisg> Duh... my kids nintento has a bigger screen!
13:21	<ogra> nintendo should have about the same
13:21	4.2 or 4.5"
13:21	<alkisg> Tried once to load opera in it, couldn't see anything
13:22	<six2one> k, i did some tests...i have a vmware install of 8.04.1 64bit with ltsp 5 and it booted!
13:22	however my real server still wont budge....
13:22	the only difference that was made is that the prod server is more up to date
13:22	also there is a real switch between the two
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13:26	<Lns> alkisg: Firefox F11/fullscreen works well (and small fonts) for me on my eee 701
13:27	<alkisg> Lns, that's with 800x480?
13:27	<Lns> six2one: so did you update the chroot after updating Ibex? As in, not just rebuilding but updating using -updates in chroot sources.list ?
13:27	alkisg: yea
13:27	<ogra> Lns, -updates is in there by default
13:27	<Lns> ogra: woo! ok nm
13:28	<ogra> only in 8.10 though
13:28	<alkisg> Lns, ok... arrrggg... gonna need glasses soon :P
13:28	<six2one> im on 8.04.1
13:28	<Lns> oh oh
13:28	jeez
13:28	<ogra> on 8.04.1 you sould use --copy-sourceslist
13:28	* Lns needs glasses too ;)
13:29	<ogra> and have -updates in the server's one
13:29	<Lns> woah, the wiki looks totally different!
13:29	did ubuntu upgrade the wiki backend?
13:29	err..heh..canonical
13:30	<ogra> looks normal to me
13:30	<Lns> six2one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UpdatingChroot if you haven't updated the chroot after build
13:31	ogra: new links, google search bar at top, community documentation link, gradient background is bigger (more narrow text fields), level 2 headers don't have horiz. line anymore
13:31	it looks good
13:32	vagrantc has quit IRC
13:32	* ogra doesnt get either
13:32	<ogra> ah, they didnt update the ubuntu theme :) i had a theme selected
13:33	it wastes a lot of space on the sides though
13:34	* Lns agrees, but thinks it looks good too
13:34	<ogra> it is conform with the website
13:34	Ahmuck has quit IRC
13:35	<Lns> that's cool... I just added UbuntuLTSP link to the main community wiki page
13:35	<ogra> great
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13:36	<mattwalston> ogra and Lns: everything is working now with an xorg.conf in the chroot
13:36	<six2one> lns: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72003/ lol
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13:36	<ogra> six2one, hrm
13:36	<mattwalston> Anyone know if hot-desking or the ability to disconnect a session at one terminal and resume at another exists?
13:37	<ogra> that looks like you have enabled -proposed too
13:37	<Lns> six2one: ;) Nothing like good ole documentation to get ya goin, eh?
13:37	<ogra> you shouldnt use propsed updates on a production system
13:37	<six2one> ogra: i just followed what was on the wiki
13:37	<ogra> hmm
13:38	<Lns> six2one: -proposed isn't in the wiki page i linked to
13:38	just -updates
13:38	<six2one> ogra: its prod...but only 2 clients....until i can get these new ones working
13:39	<Lns> wtf...now the wiki is back to its old look.. ?
13:39	* ogra wonders how linux-image-2.6.24-21-generic got in that package list then
13:39	<ogra> that shouldnt be in -updates before january
13:39	Lns, transparen proxy ?
13:40	still ooks the same here
13:40	<Lns> ogra: $ sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 uname -a
13:40	[sudo] password for jerickson:
13:40	Linux Fibonacci 2.6.24-21-server #1 SMP Wed Oct 22 00:18:13 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
13:40	* Lns isn't using -proposed either
13:40	<ogra> weird
13:40	<Lns> ogra: yes actually..
13:40	<ogra> policy was that -21 is reserved for 8.04.2
13:40	<six2one> +1....the server is running the same on my end too
13:40	<ogra> seems someone chnged policy then
13:41	<six2one> actually all my servers are
13:41	<ogra> then ignore me :)
13:41	chrisinajar_ has joined #ltsp
13:41	<Lns> ogra: that's awesome. It's always fun rebooting your LTSP servers 3+ times in a week due to kernel upgrades ;)
13:42	<six2one> well by updating this chroot if it really effs up...i did copy the entire thing...so in case it does i should have no issues throwing it back, yes?
13:42	chrisinajar has quit IRC
13:42	chrisinajar_ is now known as chrisinajar
13:42	<ogra> well, to avoid exactlsy that it was agreed that -21 stays kept back until 8.04.2 gets released in jan.
13:43	<Lns> ogra: heh
13:43	<ogra> but well, i'm not the kernel team
13:43	dtrask_ has joined #ltsp
13:44	<Lns> ogra: oh come on. you know you do everything. :p
13:44	<ogra> well, currently thats true
13:44	but only for one new arch :)
13:44	<Lns> hehe
13:45	<ogra> and armel nears the 8000 mark https://launchpad.net/+builds :)
13:46	mattwalston has quit IRC
13:47	* ogra goes afk for some housekeeping and dinner
13:47	* Lns waves to ogra
13:47	<six2one> ogra: later!
13:50	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
13:50	* Lns updates his IPCop to latest advproxy + update accelerator addons
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13:54	<vagrantc> Ryan52: i figured out how to get a bootable gpxe floppy ... select .liso, mount the image, and use boot.img as your floppy image.
13:54	or build from gpxe source using bin/gpxe.pdsk
13:54	as rom-o-matic doesn't seem to generate .pdsk files
13:55	<selffik> ogra, desktop is starting, its cool :) so how i can add for sshd start at thisclient
13:56	<alkisg> vagrantc, gpxe.pdsk? I only got gpxe.dsk (by compiling the source)... ???
13:57	Then what is gpxe.dsk used for?
13:57	dtrask has quit IRC
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14:00	<vagrantc> alkisg: gpxe.dsk doesn't work for me ...
14:00	alkisg: but gpxe.pdsk does
14:01	alkisg: so who knows :)
14:01	<alkisg> vagrantc, how did you compile gpxe to get gpxe.pdsk? I don't see a bin/gpxe.pdsk....
14:01	<vagrantc> alkisg: make bin/gpxe.pdsk
14:01	with gpxe 0.9.5
14:01	<alkisg> yeap, now I see it! :)
14:01	vagrantc, ty!
14:02	<vagrantc> alkisg: i found it rummaging around in the arch/i386/Makefile
14:02	i'm trying to put together a package for debian, and then comment on 474034
14:02	http://bugs.debian.org/474034, that is
14:03	<alkisg> vagrantc, very nice, gpxe rocks, it should be in Debian
14:03	<vagrantc> wasn't able to get the roms to build, though...
14:04	<alkisg> Are some of them proprietary?
14:04	<vagrantc> which people will want for kvm and qemu
14:04	alkisg: no, the bnx2 ones just seem to be too big...
14:05	i haven't really tracked down all the liscensing... that's probably the hardest part about packaging gpxe for debian.
14:05	i wouldn't be surprised if there are binary firmware blobs
14:14	and i haven't figured out how to skip the broken roms
14:14	but i've got a very useful package almost ready
14:16	<alkisg> vagrantc, boot.img inside the .liso image uses syslinux 3.11 from 2005... Something's wrong in their building process! :)
14:16	<vagrantc> uh-oh.
14:16	might have to strip out code-copies, too.
14:16	or at least get them to use the ones installed on the system
14:19	<alkisg> Hm... maybe it does, and they just have a 2005 syslinux on their web server
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14:36	<vagrantc> alkisg: i had to add syslinux-common to the build-depends ... so it must pull it from the system.
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14:38	<Lamo> Hi is this the support channel for rdesktop also?
14:39	<jammcq> umm, no. some of the people here may have used rdesktop, but there aren't any developers of rdesktop here
14:39	so if you had a question, someone might be able to help
14:39	<selffik> Hello where i should put my lts.conf???
14:39	<Lamo> oh ok thought i saw this as a channel for it on google
14:39	twinprism has joined #ltsp
14:39	<jammcq> but there's probably better places to get answers on rdesktop
14:40	ogra_ is now known as ogra
14:40	<Lamo> ok then Ill keep looking thanks
14:42	<six2one> lns: hey...quick question...im running 8.04 64....but with 32bit clients...anyways, when i went to update the image after the updates...i got this: Error: chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 doesn't exist.
14:42	lsn: however...the 6500x now boots...
14:43	Lns: and yes...that amd64 dir doesnt exist....is this a problem or no?
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14:45	<alkisg> six2one, you should probably do ltsp-update-image -a i386
14:46	<six2one> alkisg: thanks! building it now! sometimes my downfall is paying alittle too much time to directions and not thinking first
14:48	alkisg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/72040/ yay!
14:48	<selffik> please help me ! where i should put my lts.conf???
14:48	<alkisg> six2one, well, time to try it! :)
14:48	<jammcq> hmm, somebody here should be able to answer that
14:48	!docs
14:48	<ltspbot> jammcq: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
14:49	<jammcq> http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#AEN571
14:49	selffik: try that link
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14:53	<selffik> jammcq, thx!!!
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15:03	<MikeyB> Sorry I missed you all at LTSP by the Sea. Was it a good time? I was at home caring for my violently ill wife.
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15:06	<selffik> i am add all things in Apendix to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/<some-letter-and-number>-ltspfd.rule
15:06	In the lts.conf file add LOCALDEV=True
15:06	Rebuild the image with ltsp-update-image and reboot thin client.
15:06	but i still dont seee my hard drive....at this client i have ATA and SATA hard drive
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15:19	<selffik> Helloo!!! IS anybody can help me???
15:19	<johnny> localdev true is on by default
15:19	you don't have to add it
15:20	<sbalneav> selffik: What do you need?
15:20	<johnny> he wants his local hard drives to work
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15:21	<sbalneav> I think there's a section in the doco on that
15:21	one sec
15:21	!doco
15:21	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
15:21	<sbalneav> Yup
15:22	K_O-Gnom is now known as DonBot
15:22	<sbalneav> selffik: http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#AEN1296
15:22	<jammcq> sbalneav: you have your own private ltsp manual ?
15:22	DonBot is now known as DonSilver
15:22	<selffik> i did IT! but it doesnt work.....:(
15:22	<sbalneav> erugh, thought I replaced all the section tags with something more readable
15:23	jammcq: No, that's just a posting of the html and pdf runs of the docbook docs.
15:23	I update it when we do updates to the upstream docs.
15:23	<selffik> in fd.rule i have some like that
15:23	# /etc/udev/rules.d/88-ltsp.rules
15:23	ACTION=="add", KERNEL=="fd[0-9]", RUN+="add_fstab_entry %k auto"
15:23	ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1", RUN+="add_fstab_entry %k"
15:23	ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_TYPE}=="disk", ATTRS{removable}!="1", RUN+="ltspfs_entry add %k"
15:23	ACTION=="remove", SUBSYSTEM=="block", RUN+="remove_fstab_entry %k"
15:23	its that right? i hope
15:23	<sbalneav> selffik: Use the pastebot please
15:24	!pastebot
15:24	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:25	<selffik> !pastebot [default]
15:25	<ltspbot> selffik: Error: "pastebot" is not a valid command.
15:25	<selffik> LOCALDEV=True
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15:25	<sbalneav> selffik: did you rebuild the client image with ltsp-update-image after you made the change to the udev rule?
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15:26	<selffik> sbalneav, yes of course!
15:26	!pastebot
15:26	<ltspbot> selffik: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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15:27	<ltsppbot> "selffik" pasted "rebulding image" (48 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/103
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15:28	<selffik> sbalneav, you can see it pastebot :)))
15:28	johnny is now known as Guest65484
15:28	<sbalneav> your disk line is wrong
15:28	<selffik> its right away from appendix
15:29	<sbalneav> yeah, well, whoever added it there is wrong too.
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15:29	<sbalneav> I'll have to fix the docs
15:29	make the RUN+= lines look like the other ones.
15:29	i.e. RUN+="add_fstab_entry %k"
15:31	<selffik> sbalneav, here we go!
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15:33	* vagrantc forgets when vagrantc switched from "add_fstab_entry" to "ltspfs_entry add"
15:33	<vagrantc> but both should still work
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15:40	<selffik> sbalneav, ATTRS{removable}!="1", maybe should be ATTRS{removable}=="1" ???
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15:43	<Lns> "/proc mounted in chroot /opt/ltsp/i386, Unmounting." - That is awesome. Just ran into that today while updating. It's nice to know the little things like that exist to help sloppy admins like me. ;)
15:43	<sbalneav> selffik: No, it's a non removable disk.
15:44	so != 1
15:45	<alkisg> Lns, I've made a habbit out of this one, I never manually unmount /proc anymore! :)
15:46	<selffik> sbalneav, so this is a right string ? ATTRS{removable}!="1"
15:46	<sbalneav> right, that's saying that the removable attribute should != 1
15:46	If you want, you could say ATTRS{removable}=0
15:47	but it's the RUN+= part that's the problem.
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15:48	<selffik> sbalneav, ok ok can you just write me how it will be rihgt string? i think its like that ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_TYPE}=="disk", ATTRS{removable}!="1", RUN+="add_ltspfs_entry %k"
15:49	sbalneav, and in ltps.conf it [default] LOCALDEV=True
15:50	<sbalneav> dude
15:50	look up at my comment at 15:29
15:50	RUN+="add_fstab_entry %k"
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15:51	<sbalneav> Or, re look in the docs, I just updated the manual
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15:56	<selffik> sbalneav, ok thx! and plz see at pdf this string is half and also not right!
15:57	<sbalneav> Line probably needs to be split.
15:57	It's correct in the html
15:59	We need some better help text for ltsp-build-client
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16:01	<selffik> sbalneav, its still not work, how should i see it because not a Desctop not in My computer also in "df" or "sfdisk" its not shows
16:01	<johnny> te
16:01	<sbalneav> It certainly won't show in sfdisk
16:02	what does /proc/mounts show?
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16:02	<johnny> any kubuntu users around? or know if kubuntu 's lsb-release might show kubuntu in it?
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16:03	<johnny> nubae, if so.. I think you should amend your fat client script to default to whatever is in lsb release
16:04	<sbalneav> selffik: What do you have in /proc/mounts? I'm leaving in the next 15 minutes or so, if you want my help, you're going to have to respond faster.
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16:07	<selffik> sbalneav, ok...i tryiny proc/mounts premission denied, when i am tryint to get su or type pass of my root at server it sais that wrong pass....
16:07	sbalneav, ok i will be fast, where to change pass :)
16:08	<Lns> Does anyone have an objection to me adding a 'wishlist' bug for replacing and/or adding to the "LDM_GUESTLOGIN" an option to dynamically create temporary guest users, then nuke them & their homedirs after logout? This would aid greatly in large numbers of TCs' guest accounts (no need to add specific accounts for each TC if you don't need to keep files/etc around, also greatly reduces lts.conf file size/clutter with individual TC stanzas for guest login info)
16:09	<johnny> the last thing you said isn't required
16:09	iirc i already told you this
16:09	i don't have any individual stanzas in lts.conf
16:09	<sbalneav> selffik: Ok, first off, how's this disk formatted? Fat? Or ext2?
16:09	<Lns> johnny: I don't remember you telling me that..?
16:10	<johnny> it takes the hostname for username and pass
16:10	and then we got into the conversation about ssh keys
16:10	<Lns> OH jeez that's right.
16:10	sorry
16:10	* Lns has a bad short-term memory ;)
16:10	<selffik> NTFS and Ext2
16:10	<johnny> i'd say in the past week counts as long term :)
16:11	<Lns> johnny: well, the 'dynamic' accounts would still be a nice feature, to nuke any/all info regarding that account..of course that could probably be a real easy script upon logout too
16:11	<sbalneav> Lns: it would pretty much be impossible to implement. Adding a user's a root operation, and we don't have root's passowrd, or even a guarenttee that root can log in via ssh
16:11	selffik: NTFS won't mount
16:11	<Lns> johnny: ok i have a bad memory overall. :p
16:11	at least that's what my wife tells me.
16:12	<johnny> Lns, you could do it in combination with pam perhaps
16:12	<selffik> sbalneav, when the system boot at thin client its shows..model of HDD
16:12	<johnny> i know there's a neat oddjob helper option for pam_mkhomedir
16:12	are you guys familiar with oddjob?
16:12	<Lns> johnny: nope
16:12	<johnny> i just recently found out about it
16:12	<sbalneav> selffik: Sure, it sees the hard drive, but Linux can't directly mount an ntfs partition.
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16:13	<johnny> sbalneav, yes it can
16:13	just in ro mode
16:13	<selffik> sbalneav, when i am installing Ubuntu on this HDD i am see NTFS and make image of the disk with ntfs-3g
16:13	* Lns googles... I'd love to see USB key/smartcard auth type stuff put into LDM, that would be SO cool.
16:13	<johnny> if you want write you need ntfs3g .. which he mentioned mcuh earlier
16:13	<sbalneav> Thought you needed the fuse ntfs thing to do that
16:13	<johnny> no.. just for writing
16:13	but he knows about that already
16:13	<selffik> sbalneav, this i want to do with thin client
16:13	<johnny> selffik, you have to install ntfs3g into the chroot
16:14	<selffik> johnny, so if i am install 3g than it will mount?
16:14	<johnny> perhaps
16:14	<sbalneav> if he wants to write to the disk, he's also going to need to hack up the add_fstab_entry script
16:14	<johnny> it might require more magic
16:15	<sbalneav> Right, so, I'm correct in saying, with LTSP, an ntfs disk isnt going to work out of the box.
16:16	does the disk NEED to be ntfs? Or can it be something else?
16:16	<selffik> ok guys, why when i am install just ubuntu in this hard drive with NTFS partition...i can see it in Ubuntu and make some image with ntfs-3g? how can i do it by this THIn clien???
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16:16	<sbalneav> Short answer: you can't easily
16:17	we haven't done any work to make localdevs work with NTFS
16:17	<selffik> sbalneav, we dont run for easy, but need to go right way
16:17	<johnny> selffik, it's harder
16:17	you have to spend time learning tho
16:17	<sbalneav> You're going to have to modify LTSP to make that work.
16:18	I would either 1) reformat the disk to either Fat32, or ext2
16:18	or 2) not use LTSP as the method to try to do this.
16:18	<selffik> for example...Thinstation right away see this all partition...why LTSP cannot?
16:18	<johnny> sbalneav, Lns : oddjob is a D-BUS service which performs particular tasks for clients which connect to it and issue requests using the system-wide message bus
16:19	<selffik> So LTSP not universal than?
16:19	<johnny> and then oddjob-mkhomedir : An oddjob helper which creates and populates home directories
16:19	<sbalneav> Thinstations a commercial product, and they've probably done the work necessary to make ntfs work.
16:19	<alkisg> johnny, but how are the homedirs going to be deleted after logoff?
16:19	<johnny> alkisg, create another helper?
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16:20	<alkisg> well, if it has hooks for logoff, it shouldn't be hard...
16:20	<selffik> Now almost using NTFS for WIndows for example, i think its very good things
16:20	<Lns> sbalneav: So it's all GPL code right? Why not get that code from them and at implement it at some point?
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16:20	<johnny> selffik, just keep fighting
16:20	but try to learn yourself..
16:20	<sbalneav> Lns: Be my guest.
16:21	<johnny> wait.. so.. what are the benefits of thinstation over ltsp? or vice versa?
16:21	<selffik> thinstation is free
16:21	<sbalneav> So, then use thinstation if it does what you need it to do.
16:22	<selffik> Thinstations i dont like....because its only for rdesctop and etc...and many drivers are not suported....
16:22	<sbalneav> ok, so reformat the disk to be ext2 then
16:22	<selffik> but i like LTSP at this point and i think its will be good to add some of NTFS supply
16:23	<sbalneav> It would be fantastic
16:23	* sbalneav looks around
16:23	<sbalneav> any volunteers?
16:24	* Lns volunteers the thinstation people ;)
16:24	<sbalneav> I don't have a windows licence at home, and cant make ntfs volumes, so I've got no way to test/implement.
16:24	Sure, but I've never seen any patches from them.
16:25	If someone wants to have a look at their source code, figure out what changes we need, I'd be happy to apply them.
16:25	<selffik> THE MAIN MY TASK: I want boot ubuntu by network PXE with windows system on HDD of this client and than do a recovery from image. Until all get know LInux like windows :)
16:25	<Lns> I'd do it if I knew how. I'd help pay a bounty or something along with others who want to see it implemented though, if any coders would be willing to work for $$...
16:25	<sbalneav> selffik: Then, as of right now, you can't do that with LTSP.
16:25	<Lns> selffik: doesn't sysrescuecd/partimage do this?
16:25	<selffik> my advanteges: is that i can do it remotely! and its will save much time
16:26	<Lns> selffik: i think there's a project that already does this.
16:26	LTSP doesn't sound like the right fit for that goal IMHO
16:26	<alkisg> selffik, there are ways to boot gparted etc over the network
16:27	LTSP is not about recovery
16:28	<selffik> YEAH its not for that i know, but later when i need to use thinclient for thinclient, why it shouldbe universal for that!???
16:28	<sbalneav> selffik: Well it CAN be universal, but not without some work on yours/somebody elses part.
16:29	You're saying you want something RIGHT NOW.
16:29	It's not there right now.
16:29	<alkisg> selffik, you may have a pxelinux (remote) menu with (1) remotely load LTSP, (2) remotely load thinstation, (3) remotely load sysrescuecd etc. You don't have to use LTSP for everything
16:30	<sbalneav> Anywho, I've got to head home for the day.
16:30	<alkisg> E.g. I wouldn't want LTSP to be universal, cause it would be heavier, and need more RAM or something
16:30	<Lns> bye sbalneav !
16:30	<sbalneav> I'll be on later tonight.
16:30	<alkisg> g'night sbalneav
16:30	<sbalneav> see you all later.
16:30	<selffik> sbalneav, bye
16:31	<Lns> selffik: what you're saying is simply that you'd like to see NTFS r/w support in LTSP....right?
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16:34	<Mip5> Hey Gang, - I'm running ltsp edubuntu 8.04.1. I can get about 5 thin clients to work, but if I reboot them, they fail at the point: Waiting for the link-up on net0 ...ok. THey present their mac address address, then a series of dots, and then a boot failure message.
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16:35	<vagrantc> alkisg: gpxe packages uploaded: http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/debian/UNRELEASED/
16:36	alkisg: contains floppy (.dsk,.pdsk), iso, usb and boot-loader-able images.
16:37	<Lns> Mip5: by chance are you running remote syslog on the LTSP server?
16:37	<alkisg> vagrantc, great!!! Now I need to patch them to enable gpxe to pass kernel parameters and have a very easy way to have static IPs with LTSP and no dhcp... :P :D
16:37	<vagrantc> alkisg: heh. oh.
16:37	<Mip5> I'm not sure - but I think I tried to set that up.
16:37	Here's some more info:
16:38	<Lns> Mip5: disable that - I ran into that issue just a couple weeks ago which turned out to be syslog flooding the network and not being able to REboot the TCs
16:38	<Mip5> ssh'ing to the box takes longer than it used to. and I just had to wait about 15 sec after entering my password for a sudo
16:38	uptime shows a 0 load
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16:39	<Lns> Mip5: my symptoms exactly, after using "-r" in /etc/default/syslogd
16:39	<alkisg> vagrantc, http://forum.slitaz.org/viewtopic.php?id=1031
16:40	<Mip5> Okay - Can you remind me how to disable it? Also - here's the result of tail -f syslog:
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:03 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.750922] ACPI: bus type pci registered
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:03 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.242 to 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:08 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.756178] PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfdaf1, last bus=1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:08 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:13 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.756182] PCI: Using configuration type 1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:13 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.242 to 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:18 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.756184] Setting up standard PCI resources
16:40	<vagrantc> Mip5: WHOAH!
16:40	<Mip5> Nov 14 15:37:18 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	<vagrantc> !pastebot
16:40	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
16:40	<Mip5> Nov 14 15:37:23 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.764519] ACPI: EC: Look up EC in DSDT
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:23 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.242 to 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:28 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.768522] ACPI: Interpreter enabled
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:28 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:33 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.768526] ACPI: (supports S0 S3 S4 S5)
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:33 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.242 to 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:38 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.768541] ACPI: Using IOAPIC for interrupt routing
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:38 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:43 192.168.0.248 kernel: [ 26.773332] ACPI: PCI Root Bridge [PCI0] (0000:00)
16:40	Nov 14 15:37:43 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.242 to 00:04:5a:8e:2b:09 via eth1
16:40	<Lns> Mip5: STOP
16:40	<vagrantc> Mip5: please use the pastebot in the future.
16:40	!pastebot
16:40	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
16:41	<Mip5> Oh ok - sorry about that!
16:41	<Lns> lol
16:41	<vagrantc> alkisg: awsome!
16:41	* Lns dusts off #ltsp
16:41	<ltsppbot> "Mip5" pasted "syslog" (19 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/104
16:41	<alkisg> vagrantc, it's already doable, except for the hostnames
16:42	vagrantc, so in the future, we may have LTSP over http... :P
16:42	(I mean, non-local network)
16:43	<Lns> Mip5: is 192.168.0.248 your LTSP server?
16:43	I'm guessing not, which means remote syslog is enabled. Disable it like I told you and you should be fine.
16:43	<johnny> sbalneav, you sure can make ntfs volumes
16:43	i've done it before
16:44	just install the existing ntfs packages.. -tools or -utils or whatever
16:44	<Mip5> No - it's one of my thin clients.
16:44	<johnny> and you get a mkfs.ntfs
16:44	<Mip5> I'm hunting around, but can't recall how I enabled the remote syslog. Any ideas?
16:44	<johnny> lts.cofn ?
16:44	lts.conf*
16:44	<Mip5> Cool - thanks.
16:44	<johnny> and also in your /etc syslog conf..
16:44	you need remote on both sides
16:45	<Lns> Mip5: like I said before.. /etc/default/syslogd
16:46	Mip5: and then /etc/init.d/sysklogd restart
16:46	* Lns should probably nuke the remote syslog wiki page as it seems to break more than help
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16:49	<Mip5> Cool - I'm able to reboot all the clients now. I'll try it twice - as that's usually when I know it's broken.
16:50	Thanks gang - this looks like it's working now.
16:52	<Lns> Mip5: awesome. =)
16:52	<Mip5> For the record - the only place I made the change to disable remote syslogd was by commenting out the file that Lns pointed out (and restarting syslogd). I didn't see any reference to it in lts.conf
16:54	<Lns> Mip5: there are stanzas in lts.conf that help TCs point to a specific SERVER/SYSLOG_SERVER (IIRC) but if you don't have that, it defaults to the LTSP server. The actual enabling/disabling of remote syslog is still in /etc/default/syslogd
16:54	<Mip5> Cool - that helps. I only have one ltsp server at this time (but we'll be deploying at least 2 others at other sites if this goes well).
16:55	<Lns> Mip5: what's your setup? School?
16:55	<johnny> SUPERTERIFFIC
16:55	the kernel in proposed fixed my problems
16:55	<Mip5> Yes - actually several schools.
16:55	<Lns> Mip5: where abouts?
16:55	<Mip5> Western CO, USA
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16:56	<Lns> Mip5: awesome. If you need any help with school-specific stuff lemme know. I'm admin'ing 7 LTSP elementary school labs and one after-school club, and more to come.
16:57	<Mip5> Cooooool
16:57	I've just recently discovered IRC. I'm amazed by the knowledge and graciousness possessed by the community. It's really wonderful.
16:57	<Lns> Mip5: it's definitely a difficult process getting it all going (at least, it was for me) - but once it's in place and stable...your staff will LOVE it.
16:58	Mip5: IRC is where it all happens. ;)
16:58	<Mip5> Well - I'm psyched. I wish I knew more, but I'm learning...
16:58	<Lns> Mip5: if you haven't seen it, look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP - community Wiki with tons of great info
16:59	humbly maintained by me and others
16:59	<Mip5> Neat! I've been using some of these resources. They have been very helpful.
17:00	I have a question about building new clients. - should I make a backup of previous clients/chroot environment, incase something goes wrong? Does that link provide a good workflow for the ongoing management of the TC environment?
17:00	<Lns> Mip5: cool. Well KIT, it's always good to have a community of educational LTSP setups (#edubuntu is a great place for that as well). nubae is also a good contact for that.
17:02	Mip5: Not sure what you mean exactly - but yes, backing up your previous chroot is a good idea when making changes imho
17:04	<Mip5> LNS - basically, I tried to get think-client-manager going, and got errors about needing to install x11vnc on the client
17:04	Given that I'm fairly new - I'd like a way to go back, if some new change I make breaks something that had been working.
17:05	<Lns> Mip5: i wouldn't use that, it's better to use iTALC - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
17:05	thin-client-manager is defunct
17:06	<Mip5> That's good to know - I haven't been able to get thin-client-manager to work!
17:06	<Lns> Mip5: where did yo usee the docs for that? not on the wiki right?
17:07	<Mip5> I'm sorry - I can't recall where I saw it. I might have just recalled seeing it in a previous version (Gutsy perhaps?)
17:07	<alkisg> Lns, http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-tcm.html
17:08	The whole edubuntu handbook should be updated, and maybe some parts moved to UbuntuLTSP...
17:09	<Mip5> Yup - that's where I saw it - the handbook.
17:09	<Lns> alkisg: agreed. I think the edubuntu handbook has even less regular maintenance than plain old ltsp..
17:09	it's hard because the edubuntu/ltsp split got some people confused, so there's fragmentation there
17:09	lots of scattered docs, etc.
17:10	<johnny> it's actually not dfunct
17:10	Lns, it works fine..
17:10	<alkisg> Lns, the bad thing is that many people think that edubuntu = ubuntu ltsp, and many of these old docs don't work now...
17:10	<johnny> ogra is gonna cut out the x11vnc part
17:10	i use thin-client-manager here for blanking screens
17:11	<alkisg> johnny, why not italc for blanking screens?
17:11	<johnny> so i don't have yet another service running?
17:11	i dont need any other functionality from italc
17:11	so why not keep using what works
17:11	<alkisg> but you have x11vnc running... how heavier is ica?
17:12	<johnny> no.. i don't
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17:12	<johnny> x11vnc is going to be cut outof thin-client-manager
17:12	that's the part i don't use :)
17:12	<alkisg> johnny, I may need some explaining here... how are you going to blank the screens without any service running?
17:12	<johnny> i only use the blanking and disconnecting and process killing features :)
17:12	however thin-client-manager does it..
17:13	it doesn't run a service on the client
17:13	* Lns sees a lot of worth in t-c-m as somewhat of a central ltsp control panel
17:13	<alkisg> X magic, then?
17:13	<johnny> probably
17:13	<alkisg> hmm... not bad!
17:16	<Lns> I would have loved to use the old ltsp administration console tools. they looked too cool (though probably not half the functionality of what you see these days)
17:18	CaScAdE^1arAway has joined #ltsp
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17:21	<Mip5> Well thanks again gang. I'm going to head out. I'm glad I've got this going again. I'm hoping to deploy the week of T-giving, and was starting to get nervous....Peace
17:21	<Lns> Well I'm out to get some food (finally)
17:21	Mip5 has left #ltsp
17:21	<Lns> Mip5: good luck, stay in..blech
17:27	selffik has joined #ltsp
17:30	<Lns> have a good weekend all, i'm out for the day
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18:16	<selffik> johnny: thx for helping, i think that SystemRescueCd exatly what i mean here...LTSP i will used for thinclient :)
18:29	rjune_ has quit IRC
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18:30	<sbalneav> Evening all
18:31	rjune_ has joined #ltsp
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18:38	* ogra sighs
18:39	<rjune_> sup?
18:39	<ogra> kernels are so painful
18:39	<rjune_> yes they are
18:39	I think it's by design
18:39	<ogra> heh
18:42	<rjune_> so is canonical hiring to make ubuntu-server not suck?
18:43	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
18:43	<sbalneav> rjune_: If that was a prelude to a job application, your delivery needs some work.
18:48	<vagrantc> sbalneav: the udev rules for ltspfs use ltspfs_entry add/remove rather than add_fstab_entry, remove_fstab_entry ...
18:48	<johnny> ogra, my problem is fixed!
18:48	in the recent proposed version
18:48	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
18:48	<ogra> johnny, yay
18:49	<johnny> my fellow collective members aren't going to assasinate me now :)
18:49	<sbalneav> In the older version that other fellow was using, they didn't
18:50	hm, when did this change?
18:50	<ogra> rjune_, i dont know about server hirings ... we definately look for embedded devs atm
18:52	johnny has left #ltsp
18:52	<sbalneav> vagrantc: on my hardy it's still add_fstab_entry
18:52	did it change for intrepid?
18:52	<ogra> yes
18:52	<sbalneav> ah, well the other guy was using hardy anyway.
18:53	then we should mod the docs, and note the change
18:53	I'll do that now.
18:55	Now, If I was an *sshole and a jerk, I'd point out to vagrant, who's (admittedly very mildly) poked me about backwards compatibilty, I'd point out the relatively small colour different between a certain pot and kettle.
18:55	vagrantc_ has joined #ltsp
18:55	<petre> warren, ping
18:55	<warren> petre: pong
18:55	<sbalneav> But since I'm such a nice guy, I will remain utterly silent on the subject.
18:55	muahahahaha :)
18:56	<vagrantc_> heh
18:56	<sbalneav> NP, docs is easy to fix
18:56	* vagrantc_ is sitting in a park surfing open wireless
18:56	<petre> I'm going to build another package tonight with some changes to the QSG
18:56	<vagrantc_> sbalneav: i think i missed your response :)
18:56	vagrantc has quit IRC
18:56	<petre> should I still refer to it as version 0.0.2?
18:56	<ogra> lucky you :)
18:57	<sbalneav> how should I word it though. Im trying to be "cross platform" so I don't want to mention "intrepid"
18:57	<petre> or should I increment it since I already posted a 0.0.2 src rpm to the bugzilla?
18:57	<sbalneav> Well, there's no fun taking a poke at someone if they're not listening... :)
18:57	<ogra> "in recent iterations of the code"
18:57	<sbalneav> Now, If I was an *sshole and a jerk, I'd point out to vagrant, who's (admittedly very mildly) poked me about backwards compatibilty, I'd point out the relatively small colour different between a certain pot and kettle.
18:57	<vagrantc_> sbalneav: and i'd wear it like a badge :)
18:57	* sbalneav hugs vagrantc
18:57	<warren> petre: incrementing never hurts
18:57	<vagrantc_> well, the reality is it is backwards compatible.
18:58	i made sure of that :)
18:58	<sbalneav> ogra++ for that nice turn of phrase
18:58	<rjune_> ogra: who do I need to talkt o?
18:58	<sbalneav> that's what I'll put in.
18:58	<petre> 0.0.3 it is, then (or will be)
18:58	<ogra> rjune_, me :)
18:58	<rjune_> LOL
18:58	ok then.
18:59	Would you be interested in my resume?
18:59	<ogra> sure, though that should go through our HR dept ... what about your ARM knowledge ?
18:59	<vagrantc_> i spent much of today packaging gPXE for debian ... let's see if it gets anywhere :)
18:59	<rjune_> nonexistant
19:00	<vagrantc_> rjune_: start installing with qemu-system-arm!
19:00	<sbalneav> hmmm
19:00	<ogra> have you done other embedded stuff before ??
19:00	<sbalneav> So, any super fantastic docbook experts here?
19:00	<rjune_> I build routers for a living
19:00	<ogra> and you dont build them on ARM ?
19:00	<rjune_> I archetected the distribution the company I work for is using
19:00	nope, we use x86
19:00	<ogra> ah
19:00	<rjune_> I've done some work with PowerPC though
19:00	<sbalneav> On the udev line in question, in the HTML, it's fine, but when it's a pdf, the line "runs off the end of the page"
19:01	<rjune_> and a bit with LTSP
19:01	I do own a zaurus though
19:01	<ogra> well, ARM is spethial :)
19:01	<rjune_> and I have contributed to busybox. :-)
19:01	<ogra> running linux on it ?
19:01	(teh zaurus)
19:01	<sbalneav> Is there some pragma I need to specify, or do I just "manually break the line"
19:01	<rjune_> ogra: as far as I know linux is all they use on the z
19:01	<ogra> ah
19:02	sbalneav, buy a widescreen display :P
19:02	<sbalneav> lol
19:02	That solution is so utterly wrong, and yet, if I implement it, I get a widescreen display out of it.
19:03	I like the cut of your jib, son!
19:04	There's a few other bad tags too. I should fix them up while I'm at it.
19:04	Also, time to merge in djohnstons and clibows doc work.
19:05	Looks like it's a docbook night tonight.
19:05	<selffik> Hello again :) guys and girls, how can i change pass for root in chroot?
19:05	<ogra> rjune_, ubuntu-jobs@canonical.com, refer to me, we're looking for a "UBUNTU: Mobile Developer"
19:05	send your CV
19:05	<rjune_> ok.
19:05	<sbalneav> selffik: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u root
19:05	then rebuild the image.
19:06	<rjune_> I'll get it over this weekend
19:06	<ogra> cool
19:06	<rjune_> do they know you as ogra or oliver?
19:06	<ogra> either will work
19:06	i think i'm the only one in the company with a unique first name nowadays
19:07	well, beyond "kees cook" probably :)
19:32	selffik has quit IRC
19:32	<sbalneav> Ok, I've fixed up that one section.
19:32	I'm gonna merge in cliebow's changes.
19:32	selffik has joined #ltsp
19:33	johnny has joined #ltsp
19:33	<sbalneav> ah, yeah, and I'll have to add him to the authors if he isn't already there.
19:34	selffik has quit IRC
19:47	<Ryan52> !bootfloppy
19:47	<ltspbot> Ryan52: "bootfloppy" is http://etherboot.anadex.de or ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/K12LTSP/Universal_boot_floppy
19:47	<vagrantc_> Ryan52: the first one
19:47	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
19:47	<Ryan52> then why do we call it ebmulti?
19:48	<vagrantc_> Ryan52: i don't know.
19:48	<Ryan52> oh, ok.
19:48	<vagrantc_> Ryan52: i thought of it as a multiple etherboot floppy or some such ... maybe it just got truncated...
19:52	<sbalneav> !seen cliebow
19:52	<ltspbot> sbalneav: cliebow was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 14 hours, 34 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <cliebow> cool1
19:53	vagrantc_ has quit IRC
19:53	<jammcq> hello gents
19:54	<sbalneav> Hmm, well, I'll add cliebow in as 'Chuck' Liebow, and if he wants to be Charles, we can change it later.
20:11	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
20:13	<sbalneav> OK, Chuck's work's been merged in.
20:13	pushed docs
20:14	Lets see what David did.
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20:56	<davidj> sbalneav: Hello.
20:57	jammcq: doc says I did break it. ;-)
21:00	<jammcq> oh?
21:00	you broke your ankle ?
21:01	<sbalneav> How much did you pay again for that doctor's visit in Maine?
21:01	<davidj> sbalneav: heh
21:01	It's a bad sprain, so bad that the ligaments tore the bone.
21:01	I didn't know bone could tear.
21:02	<sbalneav> davidj: I'm going to have to cherry pick your patches manually.
21:02	<davidj> lucky me, the tear's not bad.
21:02	sbalneav: That bad? What's wrong?
21:02	<sbalneav> you spent a huge amount putting 2 spaces after periods. Docbook auto-handles all that for you.
21:02	<davidj> I'm happy to feed them in in smaller batches.
21:03	<sbalneav> Also, we had to bugger about with your makefile & stuff, I don't want to merge those changes.
21:03	<davidj> I spent 10 minutes on that. awk and cut are great tools.
21:03	<sbalneav> heh
21:03	<davidj> I didn't think you'd want the makefile chnages.
21:03	<sbalneav> So, I'm just going through and picking out the good things.
21:04	You and cliebow picked up on a lot of the same issues, so some of it's been handled by clibow.
21:04	<davidj> Whatever suits you.
21:04	<sbalneav> No sweat.
21:04	manual gets better and better :)
21:04	<davidj> let me know when, and I'll grab another copy from trunk and dump it into my branch.
21:04	<sbalneav> sur
21:04	e
21:04	i
21:04	'
21:04	l
21:04	l
21:04	do
21:04	th
21:04	a
21:05	t
21:05	durf
21:05	Gettin whacky
21:05	<davidj> You must be tired.
21:05	;-=
21:05	<sbalneav> Been a busy week, both at work and cleaning up what we started at the hackfest.
21:06	But, it's been a PRODUCTIVE week, so it's ok.
21:07	<davidj> sbalneav: So do you want me to pick out the substantive changes from my branch?
21:08	<sbalneav> Nah, I'm already on it.
21:08	<davidj> k
21:26	'night. Talk to you later.
21:27	<sbalneav> Seeya
21:34	<davidj> sbalneav: see http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/howto-setup-linux-iscsi-target-sanwith-tgt.html. "iSCSI Target can be useful to setup stateless server / client (used in diskless setups)."
21:35	(having tossed a bomb in the room, davidj ducks out) ;-)
21:35	davidj has quit IRC
22:01	<sbalneav> Whoohoo
22:01	got the manpages building now in docs!!!!
22:01	yeeeeeehawwwww
22:03	CaScAdE^FarAway has joined #ltsp
22:07	CaScAdE^1arAway has quit IRC
22:08	<rjune_> I've wondered about the iSCSI, how well would that work?
22:09	petre has quit IRC
22:09	<sbalneav> Dunno. Lots of people use it. I haven't seen any deployments for thin clients, but theoretically, it should work.
22:10	<rjune_> I don't think you can do rw to multiple clients
22:10	<sbalneav> It's really no different from a "thick" client.
22:10	<rjune_> ro should work ok though
22:10	<sbalneav> Well, no, but a ro /, with each ws getting a (small) /var should work.
22:11	<rjune_> would it be faster / work better then nfs?
22:11	than
22:11	<sbalneav> Don't know that much about iSCSI
22:11	<rjune_> nor I
22:13	still, that and AoE should probably merit some discussion
22:14	nfs is just so damn easy to setup though
22:16	chrisinajar has joined #ltsp
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22:25	<sbalneav> !docs
22:25	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
22:29	<vagrantc> sbalneav, Ryan52: what's WEXITD \| WSTOPPED in C ? where's it come from?
22:29	* vagrantc fires up pastebot
22:30	<ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "WEXITD and company" (32 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/105
22:31	<Ryan52> that "combines WEXITD and WSTOPPED"
22:31	bitwise or.
22:31	<vagrantc> i guess i should grep /usr/include ?
22:31	<Ryan52> that'll give you a random number :)
22:31	seemingly random.
22:31	* Ryan52 looks at the context
22:31	<vagrantc> bits/waitflags.h
22:32	or linux/wait.h
22:33	<Ryan52> see "man waitpid" for what those each mean.
22:34	and it's WEXITED, not WEXITD.
22:34	<vagrantc> yeah.
22:37	<sbalneav> It basically says: return me the status of any processes that either exited normally, or were stopped by a signal
22:38	basically, the ldm_wait function is passed a pid to wait for
22:38	if we see ANOTHER process we weren't expecting return status we log that.
22:39	then we check how the process ended. Either exited normally, or bopped on the head by kill.
22:43	<vagrantc> sbalneav: was this introduced in your most recent work?
22:44	chrisinajar has quit IRC
22:45	<sbalneav> yes
22:45	Last couple of days.
22:49	vagrantc: It working OK for you? Or you're just reading and learning?
22:50	<vagrantc> sbalneav: working fine where it matters :)
22:52	<sbalneav> LOL, that answer leads me to believe it's NOT working fine somewhere :)
22:52	<vagrantc> sbalneav: Debian GNU/kFreeBSD :)
22:53	sbalneav: 2.0.6 would build on it, though. :)
22:53	<sbalneav> What's it do/not doing there
22:53	Burping on build?
22:53	<vagrantc> yeah, WEXITED not defined or some such
22:53	although i also had to remove the load_guestinfo code to get that far
22:55	<sbalneav> Does it have the waitid function?
22:56	man 2 waitid
22:56	it may be we're just missing a needed header file
22:57	<vagrantc> i couldn't find anything in /usr/include that had WEXITED
22:57	<sbalneav> As we port outside of GNU/Linux, we're going to need some #ifdef's to modify things
22:58	man 2 waitid
22:58	<vagrantc> sbalneav: don't loose any sleep over it :)
22:58	sbalneav: no waitid
22:58	<sbalneav> ahhhh
22:58	<johnny> vagrantc, but you got him in his element now
22:58	<vagrantc> sbalneav: though neither does my linux system
22:58	<sbalneav> well, THAT's a problem then
22:58	<vagrantc> sbalneav: my linux system builds it fine without a waitid manpage
22:59	<sbalneav> so, this is a freebsd kernel?
22:59	<vagrantc> yeah, with mostly GNU userspace
22:59	<johnny> gentoo can do that too
22:59	their freebsd project is pretty active
23:00	<vagrantc> of course, i've also been working on a more true FreeBSD variant as well
23:00	<johnny> i have yet to try it tho
23:00	<sbalneav> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnulib/manual/html_node/waitid.html
23:00	<vagrantc> virtualbox is great for that sort of thing :)
23:00	<sbalneav> waitid's a kernel call, so it's dependent on the kernel.
23:01	<vagrantc> indeed.
23:01	<johnny> guess we should be utsp..
23:01	<sbalneav> So, we'd have to use a simpler function.
23:01	does it have waitpid?
23:01	<johnny> it should..
23:02	<sbalneav> Well it SHOULD have waitid, since it's a posix function :)
23:02	<vagrantc> sbalneav: i wouldn't break what we have if it's working just to get a piece of FreeBSD :)
23:02	chrisinajar has joined #ltsp
23:02	<sbalneav> You say "break", I say "modify for easier porting" :)
23:03	<vagrantc> i guess ifdef's could keep it free from breaking other wackiness
23:03	<sbalneav> Well, I used waitid simply because it combines 2 or 3 "lower level calls" into one nice bundle.
23:04	<vagrantc> and that's a good thing, no?
23:04	<johnny> can't you defined waitid then?
23:04	define*
23:05	sbalneav, we should get you kicking gnome where it hurts (ltsp)
23:05	<sbalneav> Well, it's a good thing for readability, but if it means you can't compile ldm on a potential target platform, I'm willing to sacrifice some readability. :)
23:05	Kick gnome? I like gnome.
23:06	hersonls has joined #ltsp
23:06	<sbalneav> It's not a bad system.
23:06	<Ryan52> kde ftw! :D
23:06	<johnny> i mean where gnome sucks for ltsp that is
23:07	<sbalneav> KDE looks nice, but I don't know c++ so I can't do much with it.
23:07	<johnny> tomorrow night is partytime!
23:07	the devival has come to baltimore!
23:07	praise BOB
23:07	PRAISE HIM
23:07	or kill bob.. as you like..
23:08	vagrantc, i'm going to come to portland again asap
23:08	<sbalneav> Both gnome and kde in general work pretty nicely with LTSP. Me, I'm perfectly happy using twm, so my personal bar's pretty low.
23:09	<johnny> sbalneav, sure.. in general :)
23:09	<vagrantc> johnny: for a specific reason?
23:09	<johnny> that's what i'm trying to come up with :)
23:09	<vagrantc> twm was a bloated example
23:10	<johnny> sbalneav, like coding up a secure dbus/tcp bridge
23:10	<sbalneav> Bad example: dbus isn't gnome's fault. :)
23:38	<johnny> actually it sorta is :)
23:38	but that was on another train of thought altogether
23:38	i followed the planets since that time ..and gnome developers were definitely involved :)
23:38	cuz corba is evil
23:39	ME_nerd has joined #ltsp
23:39	<johnny> just that a proper dbus/tcp bridge would help ltsp
23:39	<chrisinajar> What's the dbus api like? Wouldn't it be pretty easy to write that bridge....
23:40	i've done minimal stuff with dbus...
23:40	alekibango has joined #ltsp
23:40	<johnny> it's the secure part that is hardest
23:40	<chrisinajar> tcps....
23:40	<johnny> it actually needs to be exposed as a socket
23:40	that can only be read by the user
23:40	<chrisinajar> that's wicked easy to do :-P
23:40	<vagrantc> on another computer?
23:40	<chrisinajar> sockets != tcp...
23:41	<johnny> that's the problem :)
23:41	<chrisinajar> indeed, but just do a basic authentication...
23:41	<johnny> dbus/tcp actually exists..
23:41	<chrisinajar> i assume it just doesn't support auth?
23:41	<johnny> it's just not good enough
23:42	well.. you can discuss with these fine gentlemen about how to do it best for ltsp
23:42	<chrisinajar> just write a little proxy tcp protocl for relaying dbus to and from... implement some auth and optional SSL...
23:42	<johnny> i'm sure they would love something like that :)
23:44	<chrisinajar> well, i can't really say how something like that would be implemented as i don't really know how dbus works or what you guys want with it...
23:45	<ME_nerd> hi all. (sorry to break it) Is this the right place to look for a little help resolving an issues during login on LTSP-5?
23:45	<chrisinajar> probably :)
23:45	* sbalneav looks at channel name
23:45	<ME_nerd> haha, thanks
23:45	<sbalneav> Yessir!
23:45	<chrisinajar> or, more accurately, hopefully!!
23:46	<johnny> chrisinajar, connecting the local dbus to the remote dbus
23:46	the dbus on the client to server dbus
23:46	<ME_nerd> should I PM someone, or just go for it?
23:46	<sbalneav> Answers are $1, correct answers $10, stupid looks are still free.
23:46	<chrisinajar> johnny: if only programming was that easy... oh man...
23:46	<johnny> please never pm somebody
23:46	<chrisinajar> ME_nerd: just shoot
23:46	<ME_nerd> hahah
23:46	<johnny> unless they ask
23:46	<ME_nerd> alright
23:46	thanks
23:47	<johnny> that is pure bad netiquette, but at least you asked first..
23:47	<chrisinajar> indeed
23:47	does this channel have a...
23:47	!ask
23:47	<ltspbot> chrisinajar: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
23:47	<chrisinajar> nope...
23:47	* sbalneav waits for the question
23:47	<chrisinajar> most channels have a "Don't ask to ask... blah blah blah blah" message there...
23:47	<ME_nerd> I am having a few issues and I can't really sort out what is what. I am booting the PXE image off of one server and then trying to connect to a different X server
23:48	<sbalneav> If you're trying to connect to a different server, have you added their ssh host keys to the chroot?
23:48	<chrisinajar> ME_nerd: I don't use LTSP, so don't take what i say to heart...... check out /var/log/auth.log on the server you're trying to get into...
23:48	<ME_nerd> i can get LDM up, but then I get the "not authorized to connect to this server" message. I tried the sshkey update
23:48	aaaahhh
23:48	that is what i was looking for
23:49	<chrisinajar> sometimes it has really useful messages in there...
23:49	<ME_nerd> can i get more info on adding the keys
23:49	<johnny> adding the keys?
23:49	<ME_nerd> sorry, adding the ssh host keys to the chroot
23:49	<johnny> ltsp-update-sshkeys does it
23:49	<ME_nerd> as sbalneav said
23:49	<sbalneav> Not from the different server
23:50	<johnny> oh
23:50	<sbalneav> hold on, I'mlooking it up
23:50	<johnny> duh
23:50	just copy em :)
23:50	and rebuild your image
23:50	uggh.. sleepy
23:50	alkisg has joined #ltsp
23:50	<sbalneav> !doco
23:50	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
23:50	<sbalneav> Section 17.7
23:51	<ME_nerd> nice
23:51	<sbalneav> does the "other" server have ltsp-update-sshkeys installed?
23:51	<ME_nerd> oh..... yeah, for some reason i was ignoring the upstream docs
23:51	<chrisinajar> so has anyone done any hard benching on using NBD over NFS? or is it just sort of a common understanding that we
23:51	<ME_nerd> that was dumn
23:51	dumb
23:51	<chrisinajar> re pretty sure it's faster
23:51	<ME_nerd> ok, i also had another non ssh key issue
23:52	<sbalneav> If so, ltsp-update-sshkeys --export <file> on that one, copy file to chroot server ltsp-update-sshkeys --import <file> and rebuild chroot.
23:52	<ME_nerd> in order to get around the ssh problem, I turned it all off with ldm_directx = true and screen_07 = startx
23:53	i got the login screen for the x server and could start to log in
23:53	<chrisinajar> so while i'm in boston i shall get a thin client to boot into xfce.... that is my goal....
23:53	<ME_nerd> but then halfway through it would send me back to the login screen
23:53	<Ryan52> sbalneav: does glib have something like chomp? :). or, what would be the most gliby way to do that?
23:54	<sbalneav> Ryan52: I theeenkso
23:54	hold on
23:54	http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-String-Utility-Functions.html#g-strchomp
23:54	Why, yes!
23:54	<johnny> faster..
23:55	<sbalneav> Yes it does.
23:55	<Ryan52> ah, thanks. :P
23:55	<johnny> we didn't start using nbd for no reason
23:55	it was always nfs before.. nbd came about because it was improved.. otherwise nobody would want to put up with the hassle of ltsp-update-image :)
23:55	<sbalneav> ME_nerd: Not sure on that one.
23:55	how much ram in the client.
23:56	<johnny> altho somebody in some channel recommended me to apply a patch to ssh to disable encryption except for auth. and that made it faster than nfs
23:56	<ME_nerd> sbalneav: alright, i will go head on into the other problem and see if it solves itself
23:56	<chrisinajar> johnny: i just haven't personnaly witnessed it, how significant is the speed increase?
23:56	<johnny> ask ogra
23:56	i'm sure he probably has real numbers
23:56	<sbalneav> chrisinajar: Another big plus for nbd: it's not nfs. Lots of sites have internal policy's that ban NFS. Mainly because it's a kernel service and runs in ring 0
23:57	<johnny> aha.j. there is that :)
23:57	<sbalneav> nbd's a userspace goober that runs as nobody.
23:57	<chrisinajar> cooool
23:57	<johnny> wasn't there a userspace nfs implementation?
23:57	<sbalneav> yeah
23:57	<chrisinajar> I think so, i'm pretty sure that's what we use...
23:57	* chrisinajar is not positive..
23:57	<johnny> sbalneav, have you heard of this patch to ssh that allows you to remove encryption except for auth?
23:57	<sbalneav> They're usually not that fast.
23:58	yeah
23:58	cipher "none"
23:58	-c none
23:58	<johnny> and the auth is still ?
23:58	<sbalneav> auth is, yeah
23:58	but after that, it's like passthrough.
23:58	<johnny> i hear it is uberfast.. not sure
23:58	<sbalneav> Well, it's faster
23:59	<johnny> definitely faster than smb i'm sure
23:59	<vagrantc> the inability to get that patch applied resulted in LDM_DIRECTX ... which mostly addresses that issue for LDM
23:59	<johnny> perhaps not faster than nbd..
23:59	<sbalneav> LDM_DIRECTX is fastest, and doesn't require patching your sshd
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